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Life expectancy declines seen in U.S. and other high-income countries
- thatfrenchguy 8y agoAnd maybe we all need universal healthcare folks.
- rossdavidh 8y agoDoesn't the U.K. already have that? And most other high-income countries? Not that I'm disagreeing.
- betocmn 8y agoYes, and it's ranked first in this study [1] of 11 different national health care models. [1] https://interactives.commonwealthfund.org/2017/july/mirror-mirror/ https://interactives.commonwealthfund.org/2017/july/mirror-m...
- briandear 8y agoTry getting mental health appointments through the NHS. Mental health “services” in the UK are a travesty given the so-called commitment to “universal” care.
- NeedMoreTea 8y agoThat's more a function of which government is in than of the healthcare model.
- androidgirl 8y agoI have private insurance in the USA, but I'm only permitted to see a therapist once every three months. Mileage may vary, this is an anecdote, etc. But as an otherwise healthy, young individual, I really just want talk therapy to process my feelings.
- allthenews 8y ago>driven in part by the effects of the opioid epidemic on younger adults in the U.S. and the impact of a severe flu season on older adults in other nations, two new studies suggest. More likely we need to fix the socioeconomic circumstances that drive people toward opioids. Personally, I believe there is a complex cultural problem in the first world. We have it too easy, can subsist without working, and now that people are increasingly less religious, with nothing to do all day and nothing to replace god or community but vapid, consumerist materialism. So poor people turn to drugs to numb the emptiness in their lives. M Though I'm sure there's more involved.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- emodendroket 8y agoOpioids are also a cheaper fix to chronic pain problems than extensive therapy. And then when it gets too expensive to get prescription drugs heroin is cheaper.
- mmirate 8y agoUnfortunately I was a few minutes too late to direct this reply to the right place before it got eaten by flags. Regardless, if anyone here thinks that the character "Thanos" would ever make a good exemplar among humans, then I encourage them to watch this rebuttal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV18Xx5EkaE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV18Xx5EkaE
- aisengard 8y agoOne big problem is that we've created a culture where there is literally nothing else other than labor and productivity, literally for productivity's sake. So when we run out of meaningful, productive jobs for everyone, people get depressed because we've drilled into their heads that if you're not being productive, you're worthless. We need to create a society that values happiness over productivity and efficiency. It means not stigmatizing "laziness". It means not punishing doing something for its intellectual sake rather than for profit or productivity. Basically, we need to start to discard the 20th century models of capitalism and communism and start focusing on what we want the 21st century to be about.
- nautilus12 8y agoDeaths of despair makes it sound like people need more of their paycheck to go into their pocket so they aren't despairing that they can't afford modern life. Universal healthcare would make that profoundly more difficult.
- rossdavidh 8y agoSimilar conclusion, different article, partially different data sources: http://peterturchin.com/cliodynamica/population-immiseration-in-america/ http://peterturchin.com/cliodynamica/population-immiseration...
- paulcole 8y agoMaybe this isn’t as bad as it sounds? Fewer people might be the best way to limit climate change.
- mc32 8y agoThat's not the way to go about it. You want to control a pop's growth before reproduction has happened, else you're just increasing "despair" and hurt. It's not the humane way.
- mistrial9 8y agothis destructive comment feeds the worst stereotypes trotted out by fear-mongers; nothing close to this is constructive
- lxmorj 8y agoWhatever. Everyone knows the best way to reduce healthcare costs is to kill literally every human!
- emodendroket 8y agoI suppose "people should die so that climate change is less severe" is an easy position to take if you imagine the people being killed won't be you or your family.
- toomanybeersies 8y agoI find it astounding that the opioid epidemic is so severe that there's a measurable reduction in life expectancy in the USA. Interesting that "deaths of despair" have also had a measurable impact. It seems that since the Global Financial Crisis, we've been locked in this sort of terminal pessimism. Hunter S. Thompson wrote back in 1971, "We are all wired into a survival trip now". Are we locked in the same survival trip from almost 50 years ago, or is it a cyclical thing? Is the world really worse than the 60s? Or are we just more aware of our helplessness?
- emodendroket 8y agoWages were rising until the 70s and they've been stagnant since then; in the mean time college, health care, rent, houses, etc. have gotten more expensive in real dollars. People who had well-paying jobs with strong benefits are now often, if not unemployed, in jobs with less pay, fewer benefits, and more precarity. In short: yes, things are worse for many of the people who are turning to opiates.
- myth_drannon 8y agoFrom the many statistics I saw usually the breaking point is the middle to end of eighties. I'm thinking the fall of Soviet Union had a large impact on the middle class Americans. Basically the middle class was discarded as something that served its purpose as a shield from communism.
- ianai 8y agoDecades of “trickle down economics” have robbed from the vast majority and given to the tiny, select few.
- dcgudeman 8y agoHow has anybody been "robbed"? Per capita income has gone up for everyone, yes the top has gone up faster but at the end of the day the lower tiers still have increased in wealth. Honestly I don't understand how you come to your conclusion.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- symlinkk 8y agoDrugs, alcohol, and suicide. All are things people turn to when they want to escape. The question is, what are people escaping? Loneliness? Poverty?
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- emodendroket 8y agoDeindustrialization and the attendant effects I'd guess.
- acjohnson55 8y agoLack of sense of purpose
- p1mrx 8y agoPeople don't need a reason to escape; they need better reasons to stay. Traditionally that's been the role of religions, but what's the replacement? How can we give humanity a reason to live, in a scalable manner, without relying on fictional axioms?
- symlinkk 8y agoFamily. Men and women need to care for each other and for their offspring. It’s ingrained in all of us.
- aclsid 8y agoAnybody else felt that the study is kind of too broad and they kind of say, yes it is partly because of the opiods but at the same time there is another study that say it isn't. So I feel I literally read noise.
- bonzini 8y agoOutside the US and possibly the UK it is noise; it's not news and the cause is well understood to be the flu. Fluctuations of a few months in life expectancy should not be a surprise in countries where it is well above 80 years. The question is why the decline didn't revert the next year in two of the 18 countries.
- dawhizkid 8y agoIf only lsd was legal. One of the safest non-addictive drugs out there with therapeutic and recreational benefits.
- ianai 8y agoAs a migrainer, if only.
- p1mrx 8y agoAssuming correct dosage, cannabis has many of the same benefits, and the world seems to be on a reasonable path to legalization. In any case, flooding the opioid markets with legal psychedelics would make an interesting social experiment.
- dawhizkid 8y agoI would definitely not put weed in the same category as lsd or shrooms at all.
- toomanybeersies 8y agoThis is starting to become a bit of a meme on Hacker News, that LSD, or ketamine, or MDMA is some kind of miracle cure for all your problems in life. It's not. I've taken my fair share of drugs in all kinds of different settings, so I'd consider myself at least experienced in the subject. Drugs don't solve the problems in your life, they're escapism. To quote (again) Hunter S Thompson: > That was the fatal flaw in Tim Leary's trip. He crashed around America selling "consciousness expansion" without ever giving a thought to the grim meat-hook realities that were lying in wait for all the people who took him seriously... All those pathetically eager acid freaks who thought they could buy Peace and Understanding for three bucks a hit. Drugs aren't going to save the world. The hippies thought that they could save the world in the 60s with positive energy, wishful thinking, pot, and LSD. How well did that work out? You could give the whole world a dose of acid, and the very next day they'd be straight back to killing each other. I'm all in favour of legalisation, sure, but it's not going to save the world. Upon saying that, in the correct supportive environment, LSD can be an incredible tool for healing past trauma. It's a shame that Timothy Leary and his lot managed to basically kill all scientific research into its therapeutic benefits for decades.
- delbel 8y ago> paulcole 22 minutes ago [flagged] [-] > Maybe this isn’t as bad as it sounds? Fewer people might > be the best way to limit climate change.
- thanatosmin 8y agoActual study: https://www.bmj.com/content/362/bmj.k2562 https://www.bmj.com/content/362/bmj.k2562 Which has a helpful visual summary: https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/suppl/2018/08/15/bmj.k3096.DC1/mid_life_mortality_v37_datasupp.pdf https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/suppl/2018/08/15/bmj.k3096.D... The title of the Reuters piece is misleading, as declines in 2014 were followed by greater gains in 2015 for most countries.
- stenl 8y agoI find it very counter-intuitive that they would cite an ”ageing population” as a contributing cause of a drop in life expectancy. I suppose there might be some way that that could be true, but it’s not straightforward.
- anoncoward111 8y agoI'd like to provide my anecdotal evidence from a 26 year old American white male making $37,000 per year in NYC: It's not income inequality that drives my depression. I'm happy as a clam at my job and I'm able to pay my food, rent, car, and make a little savings. It is the "bullshit" factor that comes with nearly everything in life these days. Parking tickets, identity thieves, regulations that hurt small businesses, crowding in cities, crazy drivers on the road, being taken to court for nearly anything... ... everyone is out here just trying to exploit the common citizen and it really, really needs to stop.
- xxpor 8y ago>Parking tickets,... crowding in cities, crazy drivers on the road, I'd posit you just don't like living in a city.
- anoncoward111 8y agoI'm one hour outside the city, nearly rural burbs surrounded by farms. Parking ticket junta knows no bounds my friend. Also your logic is a bit scary. "I'm tired of seeing extra-judicial killings." "Sounds like you're just tired of living in Manila"
- adventured 8y agoAn HN member suggests that someone may just not enjoy urban living, and your response is to relate that suggestion to lawlessness and wanton murder. Their logic isn't scary at all, it's not even the slightest bit unusual; your response however, is extremely bizarre and off kilter.
- ben_w 8y agoWhile I do not regard it as an accurate view of cities, I also do not regard it as “extremely bizarre and off kilter” — I have noticed similar patterns of hyperbolic anti-city thoughts amongst many people who prefer rural areas to cities.
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- myth_drannon 8y agoWhat about the rise of antibiotics resistant bacteria, superbugs... etc. Everyone is sounding alarm on that, but factually how many preventable deaths it caused?
- henryw 8y agoI'm shocked it's not caused by all the crappy diet that is still so mainstream: sugary foods, government food pyramid made by lobbyists, meat overdose, etc.
- subcosmos 8y agoHow about toxic chemicals that make us sick? https://medium.com/@InfinoMe/diabetes-time-to-resort-to-plastic-measures-500cdf1fe528 https://medium.com/@InfinoMe/diabetes-time-to-resort-to-plas...
- ransom1538 8y agoThere really is just two things that kill Americans: heart disease and cancer [1]. Despite what you hear, it isn't terrorists, depression, tickets or sharks. IMHO. Heart disease is related to salt intake and lack of exercise. Cancer is related to a dna gamble on each cell split (the more you intake sugars & fat the better odds these deformed cells have * age). So. Basically stop eating. Fast. Give your heart a break from salt - let those deformed cells die. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm [2] Fat monkey vs skinny monkey http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2012/08/calorie_restriction_and_longevity_monkey_study_shows_hunger_doesn_t_increase_longevity_but_type_of_food_does_.html http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_exa...
- subcosmos 8y agoHeart disease actually has links to viral infections by things as common as herpes :) https://medium.com/@InfinoMe/cholesterol-have-we-shot-the-messenger-a3f5dfeba09 https://medium.com/@InfinoMe/cholesterol-have-we-shot-the-me...
- ggm 8y agoI live in one of the high income economies (Australia) which I think is not in the cohort. I wish it was clearer how the cohorts line up, by economy. The chart obscures this a bit. My take-away is that the opiod and other health crises are real, and there is a real measureable effect but I am less sure health outcomes by high-income worldwide is in net decline, measured by life expectancy. https://www.bmj.com/content/362/bmj.k2562#F2 https://www.bmj.com/content/362/bmj.k2562#F2 are the figures which show six economies this didn't happen in: Finland, Japan, Norway, Australia, Canada, Denmark
- alexlikeits1999 8y agoThat's the list and figure for women. For men you have to see the next graph which is slightly different. Then the next two graphs show you that outside of the US the opiod epidemic is not a big part of the reason. Then when you look at the 2016 estimates table you see that this is all just noise except for the UK and the US.
- JackPoach 8y agoThere's a term for it called 'shit life syndrome' - https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-08-20/hutton-blames-shit-life-syndrome-brits-slumping-life-expectancy https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-08-20/hutton-blames-shit...
- singularity2001 8y agoGive us the data already: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy