15 ms·

The neglected benefits of the commute

89 points by dsr12 8y ago

alexgmcm 8y ago
I find it massively depends on the commute. Previously, I often had to travel to visit my SO which was an hour away by train. As I almost always had a seat I could watch Coursera videos on my phone. However, I have a 20-30 minute bus ride to work everyday in which there are never free seats and you are often lucky if you even have room to reach into your pocket let alone watch videos on your phone. It's hard to see any benefit to the latter commute as being rammed in like cattle doesn't aid self-reflection either.
- wink 8y ago
  Agreed, even when I only have 25 mins of combined bus and subway commute, it's kinda wasted time for anything that's not "reading RSS feeds on my phone" or "read a small (by dimensions) paperback" as it's packed. Then again I still prefer this over 45mins of "sitting down", because I can somehow do something in that time even if worse case it's just listening to music and let my mind wander, whereas I see most of it wasted anyway
- sundvor 8y ago
  Yeah I've done public transport, car and cycle. I far prefer the latter, which doesn't make me fat and stressed the way driving a car or squeezing into an overfilled train does. (Well except for those moments when someone is trying to kill us, but you get used to those I guess...)
deleted 8y ago
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tjansen 8y ago
Years ago I worked within walking distance to the office. It took only 10 minutes to walk there. I hated it. You spend all day and night in the same neighbourhood. At lunch I went to the same places I would go to at the weekends. Life just felt so repetitive, seeing the same things every day. Today I drive 15-20 minutes to the other end of the town, with just moderate traffic, and for me that's perfect. Less stressful than public transportation, and more variety than in the old office.
- hycaria 8y ago
  For you that's perfect, but for others, between city pollution, traffic and plain GHG emissions, how perfect is that ?
  - product50 8y ago
    Please stop making such ignorant comments. You may not realize it but a lot of folks have families and are on a schedule dropping off and picking up their kids - where driving cars/ride sharing is often the most practical way of commuting. Just because you have been able to find a place near to your office or have been able to plan your commute near train stations/shuttle stops doesn't mean everyone else can. Many times you have to optimize for other things such as schools, bigger house with a yard etc. and not all those will have great commuting options. Learn to empathize.
    - bkor 8y ago
      > a schedule dropping off and picking up their kids - where driving cars/ride sharing is often the most practical way of commuting This is mostly done on bike in The Netherlands. A normal bike supports 2 kids. There's also bikes to transport 4-5 kids. I regularly see those bigger bikes btw. It does take that your country plans things accordingly. Back in the 1960s there wasn't much of a bike infrastructure, though there were loads of cars and car accidents.
      - product50 8y ago
        Yeah - am not talking about Netherlands here. I would encourage to come to US and understand just how widespread things are. You often are working in an office which is 15 miles away from your house. No way you are biking on that regardless of how good your biking infra is.
        KozmoNau7 8y ago
        Why not? I have had plenty of colleagues over the years who did upwards of 30km bicycle commutes, each way. If your job offers showers and lockers, it's no problem at all, once you've built up the bike stamina after a couple of weeks.
rerx 8y ago
The article points out measurable health benefits from having to walk a little to and from bus and metro stops. They totally neglected talking about the advantages of commuting by bicycle though. It would take a lot to make me switch to a job that I would not be able to reach in half an hour or so on a bike.
- 2T1Qka0rEiPr 8y ago
  I thought this. As a cyclist, I actually find cycling to work generally very beneficial. Though, now I am a cyclist I think I'd also be reluctant to take a job which I either a) couldn't cycle to, or b) couldn't cycle to within a reasonable time (e.g. 30 minutes as you said). My switch a few years back has been almost universally positive, though I do read less as a result.
- sundvor 8y ago
  Yes! I'm getting old now and I'm never going back to a job where I can't ride. 45 minutes is also good - if you can use dedicated away-from-roads bike paths for the most of it :)
havocbolt 8y ago
I'm doing a compulsory end of studies internship in a big IT company in France, now I live in the other side of the paris area, and I refused many internships because they didn't allow remote work. So I started with this company and asked for remote work for 3 days a week and they accepted, but when I started they sent my supervisor to work on a different project and the new one refused any form of remote work, and it was too late to change since it's a long process between the company and the school etc... So now I do 2x2h of commute a day, and most of it is standing in a train or a subway filled with people, I tried every form of entertainment or podcasts or videos but nothing does it, I only have 1 month left though but it was the most soul crushing experience of my life. The irony in all of this is I'm a developper and their VPN works flawlessly and I'm the only one working on the project so there are at most one meeting a week and it's done over Skype since most employees work remotely, but not interns. I now believe that there are no actual benefits to commute (as in big city commute with subways etc...) and they're the ones losing manhours, since I could have put those 4h a day working on the project.
- marsrover 8y ago
  Or not even an extra 4 hours working on the project (why would you do that?), but a whole normal day where your brain is fresh. I’m sure you’re not in the state of mind that is optimal for work after 2 hours of a soul crushing commute.
- dredalious 8y ago
  So, you know how there's a shortage of IT'ers... After a month, if the internship is going well, ask them if they see this as an opportunity to acquire you right out of school. If they do, ask them how they think this will go now they refused to let you work from home after first agreeing on it.
  - havocbolt 8y ago
    I'm Moroccan, I barely convinced my fiance to wait for 1 year and she either visited or I did everytime we could so I won't be staying here. But they offered to hire me, now I'm looking at jobs in Casablanca or like another comment suggested to check the REMOTE section here.
alex_hitchins 8y ago
I've commuted long distances (over an hour each way) by train and car for nearly two decades. When driving I try to get through my podcast backlog mainly on technical things, but also now more general stuff. Sometimes I miss the ability to bring the laptop out and do something fun, but then I remember when I did train in, I ended up working most of the time, and it became an extra two hours of work per day. Like all things, it's down to self-discipline I suppose.
- dagw 8y ago
  it became an extra two hours of work per day I have a friend of mine who commutes an hour+ by train each day and he has basically agreed with his boss that if he works on the train he can leave earlier/show up later.
  - alex_hitchins 8y ago
    I've had similar arrangements too, it's nice when it's an available option.
iamphilrae 8y ago
I live in London and a few years ago I used to commute from east to west (Ealing to Liverpool Street). The trip is normally 45 minutes each way on the Central Line, however I would regularly miss out on a seat and be subjected to a cattle-class sweat box that just put me in a foul mood for the rest of the day. However, being Ealing, I also had the option of taking the District Line to rougly the same place (Tower Bridge). My journery was now 1hr 15m, however with the DL's spacious air-conditioned carriages and guaranteed seat, it was well worth it. It put me in the best state of mind and allowed me to use my laptop to work on my own projects. In 6 months of 2hrs to myself each day, I wrote medistudents.com and still was able to relax at the end of the day and not let software development impact home life. Without the commute and this opportunity to work on my own things, I would have either never found the time for a side project, or p*ssed off my girlfriend for spending all night on the laptop. Nowadays I either work from home or commute by car. It's just not the same - either from looking at the same 4 walls every day, or regarding time spent in traffic as a complete waste. And my time on my own projects has now essentially reduced to zero. So if you commute by a comfortable bus or train, spend your time wisely. Definitely don't waste it playing Candy Crush. Take advantage of it for working on a side project, learning something new, or just self-reflection.
- gaius 8y ago
  Take advantage of it for working on a side project, learning something new, or just self-reflection. Once I had ditched my FB habit I now use my commutes for EdX on my phone. Doesn’t always work - for some things you really need to be sitting at a desk with a real keyboard and paper and pencil - but it’s definitely possible to make good progress.
- jondubois 8y ago
  I had a similar experience when working in Australia. There was a lot of space for me to pull out my laptop and do some work. When I moved to Europe (London, then Berlin) the trains were too small and too crowded - Also they usually have seats facing other seats which is distracting. Not private enough for me to concentrate.
  - 8y ago
lvturner 8y ago
"In the UK, for instance, he calculates that a 10% increase in the use of public transport could result in 1.2 million more people reaching the recommended levels of physical activity." I suspect that's partly because our public transport has been utterly decimated to the point that you have to walk several miles a day to get to work. Unless you live somewhere like London, I suppose.
- 4ndr3vv 8y ago
  Hardly! if the daily level of physical activity is 30 minutes exercise per day, then this is only 7.5 minutes walking each end of the commute.
seanhandley 8y ago
The commute is a driver for one thing in this scenario: discipline. You have no choice but to commute, so you either slog through it or use the time constructively. As a 100% remote worker, I have no commute to motivate me to fill that time. But I can get up early and go running, visit the gym, read, prepare for work, do a side project etc during the exact time slot I would have been travelling to/from an office. I don't miss that time spent commuting at all but sometimes I miss the enforced discipline it provides. If I'm not feeling motivated then that time just gets eaten up by sleeping late etc. Having an external motivator like commuting means you can't be lazy.
- joncrane 8y ago
  Agreed. When I am optimizing to minimize time spent driving, I have to be very disciplined with when I wake up, when I leave for work, and when I leave work. It's definitely an effort, but worth it.
bitL 8y ago
If a commute takes longer than 10 minutes, it's a complete waste of time. One can try to find a "hidden pearl" there and bend arguments why it can be beneficial for improving discipline etc., nevertheless, those virtues could be achieved more efficiently without commuting while saving the most precious resource - time.
- jusssi 8y ago
  Working itself wastes time so much more than the commute, so it's better to free oneself from that altogether. Have all that time for yourself instead. Just drop a couple of mil * to stock market and live off the dividends. *) Not an option for most people, I know. But so is commuteless life.
  - bitL 8y ago
    I meant it the way that it's better to accept that commuting is a net negative for many reasons instead of trying to put a lipstick on a pig and spin it in a positive way. Necessary evil, most of the time.
fpoling 8y ago
As a child I used to commute to the school in an overcrowded public bus of late Soviet Union type. And overcrowded meant that one had to literally squeeze oneself into the bus. As it was often impossible even to look at the window as that was covered in frost the only thing that I could do was to either observe clothes of other people or listen to what people say around. One often realized that if friends or couple are loudly talking about something interesting, then the whole bus was silent trying to listen despite the noise of the engine. On many occasions the stories or talks were so fascinating or weird that it was disappointing to leave the bus.
saiya-jin 8y ago
I recall some article mentioning people get used to most positive or negative things in their lives, and after some time level back to their original base level of happiness. There are 2 exceptions - positive one being a good pet with feedback (ie dog, or maybe even cat), and negative being longer commute. It just drains our positive energy, one bit at a time, continuously. I used to commute to work 70-90 minutes each way with many types of transport (usually bus-train-tram but sometimes more), every day. I didn't come home drained from work, that I can handle easily, but commute was soul crushing, no matter what I read/did (and mostly I could have a seat). Eventually enough was enough, I moved to the city where work is, and having 15 minute commute saves me freakin' 2+ hours of my life, every single work day. You can't put the price on that. And the move was positive change in my life for other reasons as well. Many people around me tell me they can handle long commutes, but they don't appear to be very happy in their lives. Honestly, if you can, do a change in your life. You won't regret it.
- sokoloff 8y ago
  For most of my 20s, I lived ~35 miles north of the city and drove to/from work. I self-reported/self-convinced that I enjoyed it most times and "didn't mind it" most other times. It made socializing, playing sports, and going out more difficult. I then moved smack into the city, had a walking commute to work for many years, and absolutely loved that. Now, my commute is 8 miles (each way) driving and while I'd prefer a walkable commute, I definitely can't imagine going back to driving 75 miles per day. I think "can handle" is the best description I could use for a long commute. You can, but try not to...
  - jaclaz 8y ago
    >I think "can handle" is the best description I could use for a long commute. You can, but try not to... I concur. In my experience there is a phenomenon (in driving generically, not necessarily in driving for commuting), that I believe is connected to the fact that kms/miles driven "add up". For me this happened on or around the 1,000,000 kms mark. I know it sounds obvious/a truism but after one has driven for a (large) amount of kms in his/her life, he/she has "enough" of that. The 10/15/20 kms/minutes remain "ok", but longer commutes start to be "annoying". I am now living at a 8 km (please read as 8 minutes) drive away from work, and it is just fine, when I have to go to the nearby city (35-40 km away), and I have to do that 1 or 2 times per week, I try to avoid the car and take the train if I can. Longish trips (200-300 or more) kms are still OK (because they are not common), but I wouldn't stand the daily commute for 40 kms.
skate22 8y ago
My commute often leaves me feeling exhausted & annoyed (2 hours each way, half on the train) The main positive thing that came from this commute was reading for pleasure (somthing I was not doing beforehand) I don't try to max productivity on the commute, and my mental health thanks me for that
- Rainymood 8y ago
  That's half a work day spent in commute man ... why?
  - skate22 8y ago
    Less than half, i spend 9 to 10 hours at the office, and I'm saving towards a house (extra cash from cheaper rent)
iliaznk 8y ago
I have to commute, but not for long, about 20 minutes by subway and some about 20-25 minutes of walking to and from subway. There're some small buses riding back and forth from and to the subway stations as well, but I deliberately walk, because nowadays you really don't get to walk much as long as you don't do it on purpose. And the subway ride - that's one of the sparse opportunities to read a book. Though, 20 minutes is not a very long while for reading, but still. Earlier the ride would take me 30-35 minutes – even more time for reading! That's what allows to me to read a lot. Relatively a lot, of course. If I was driving a car or walking all the way I wouldn't have read even half of that amount, that's for sure. So, for me, I believe, commute is definitely a useful thing, I'd say.
chrisweekly 8y ago
I'm mostly remote, but when I do commute it's podcasts / work-related non-fiction on the way in, and "attitude adjustment hour" music or audiobooks (usually fiction) for pleasure, on the way home.
superqwert 8y ago
I live in London and have a 1 hour commute by tube. I read even if I have to stand in a sweaty, crowded space. It helps with distracting me from the horrors of the journey. It also means I get ~10 hours reading done a week, which has come to ~50 books/year for the last few years. I read mostly non-fiction and usually they are textbooks on varied subjects (often not related to work). I feel this has vastly improved my understanding of the world and has meant I can talk to people about many various subjects, ones I would know almost nothing about otherwise.
- Kiro 8y ago
  > I feel this has vastly improved my understanding of the world and has meant I can talk to people about many various subjects, ones I would know almost nothing about otherwise. Inspiring! I often feel uneducated so would love to get in a similar position. OT but any books you recommend?
  - teekert 8y ago
    Haha, definitely stick to books on topics you like, feeling uneducated does not mean you are. And if you just want to feel educated, trust me, it might never come because the more you know the more you understand that you know very little. I think it is the hallmark of the educated mind to feel a bit uneducated.
graeme 8y ago
I work from an office right around my home. I suppose I don't have to commute, but in practice I go for am ambling walk around the nearby park every morning before work. I find I work veterans this way, even if I have less time.
habosa 8y ago
Those are some nice benefits, but a commute is still mostly a waste. I did the infamous SF to Mountain View commute on "The Google Bus" for two years. It's about as decent as a 1.5hr commute can be, you're on a quiet private bus with big seats and WiFi. I spent about 80% of the time reading novels. With a few hours to myself a day I was reading a book a week no problem. In that sense it was nice. Then I got moved to the SF office. My commute turned into a 20m bike or subway. Quality of life went through the roof. My girlfriend told me I seemed happier all day. I could still read in my saved time, but I was also free to spend that time on other things. I also get to spend a lot more time with my friends since I'm available to meet up after work on short notice. Having this experience, I wouldn't go back to the commute even for a 20% raise. It's that bad.
- fatnoah 8y ago
  >Then I got moved to the SF office. My commute turned into a 20m bike or subway. I did the Boston version of this. My wife and I lived downtown and moved to a suburb when our son was 7 months old. My one-way commute went from a 15 minute subway ride to a 1-1.5 hour trip depending on buses and such. Five years later, we sold our house and moved back into the city and my commute shifted to a 20 minute walk. At one point, due an office move, I could see my office from my living room (I lived in a high rise). I literally gained 40-80 extra minutes a day and lost 15 pounds. I was also able to coach my son's sports teams since leaving at 4:30pm for a 5pm practice was much easier to do than leaving at 3:30pm and wondering if I'll make it in time the entire way. And now, 5 years after that, I've moved out of the city again. ADHD and a need for space and room to roam have forced the change. I'm back to a 40-60 minute commute and counting the days (approx 2800) until my son is off to college/out of the house and I can move back.
- ghaff 8y ago
  For about a year and a half I did a ~50% of the time commute via train that took about 90 minutes. It was less than a ten minute drive to the station and then a short walk on the other end. So not terrible. But I would never have wanted to do that long term nor every day. It's still a big chunk out of the day and forced me into a particular schedule. It also didn't work for when I wanted to do anything in the evening in which case I had a fairly congested drive even leaving quite early in the morning.
mlcrypto 8y ago
I drive about 1.5-2 hours a day and I'd like to think there are benefits for my eyes as well. My eyes get to experience all sorts of depths and colors that aren't possible while coding or playing games or TV. Kind of like a muscle, use it or lose it. I'd like to see a study done about commuters and eyesight
- emodendroket 8y ago
  I mean, you could just go outside independent of your commute
  - mlcrypto 8y ago
    I could but I probably wouldn't since most of my hobbies are digital
    - emodendroket 8y ago
      Yeah, I get what you're saying. I probably wouldn't read as many books if I didn't take the train to work. But does that make it worthwhile to suffer through every morning? Tough call.
ensiferum 8y ago
These are not benefits of the commute. To use the examples from the article "Accelerated learning" is really not the benefit of a commute but doing "work-related prospection" (whatever that is).
emodendroket 8y ago
I think the ideal distance is probably like 15 to 30 minutes. Enough to make "work" and "home" different places and not feel like you never get away from work, but not enough to resent all the time you're frittering away listening to imbeciles chattering away on the train while you try to read.
- thanatropism 8y ago
  The ideal distance is like 15 to 30 minutes by foot. So you can plan to get some exercise while "gearing up" for work, but also be 5-10 minutes away by Uber in case you oversleep or emergency (at work or at home) calls.
  - tokyodude 8y ago
    I'm 19 minutes by foot. it's hot and humid where I live so 5 minutes out my clothing is drenched with sweat and by the time I make it to work I have to wait about 20-25 minutes to dry off
- matwood 8y ago
  When I go to the office, my commute is currently ~30 minutes. It is definitely right on the edge of being too long. My main problem with a commute is not that it's 30 minutes, but that it's 30 minutes by car. I despise driving. It seems like such a complete waste of time in general. Plus, it's dangerous dealing with a bunch of idiots on their phones. /rant over
  - gambiting 8y ago
    It's funny, because I specifically didn't want to live too close to the office for the exact opposite reason - I like driving, and living within walking distance would mean that I don't get to drive every day.
    - emodendroket 8y ago
      I enjoy driving... but driving during rush-hour?
glitcher 8y ago
In a sprawling US city with poor mass transit, I don't see how sitting in traffic solo in my car along with thousands of others is helping anybody's health. I'll take the time and money savings of working from home any day. By a very conservative estimate, commuting to work used up about 12 full days of my life every year.
pouetpouet 8y ago
The benefits drop precipitously after the 15 or 20min mark. A 10-20min walking or biking commute is good. 30min of driving in traffic is not.
- stronglikedan 8y ago
  > 30min of driving in traffic is not. Unless you like to drive, or in my case, love to drive. I.e., it's subjective.
  - sincerely 8y ago
    I love driving. I absolutely hate driving in traffic.
option 8y ago
I live in CA and often comute on my motrcycle. It’s a joy - carpool lanes, lane spliting, and a motorcycle I like. About 15 mins by motorcycle and could easily be 40 by car (because of carpool lanes and lane splitting, not speed)
- Schwolop 8y ago
  We are the 1%... :-) Specifically, I do this in Melbourne, Australia where it's free and legal to park a motorcycle on the pavement (aka sidewalk). A 2012 study found that we make up almost exactly 1% of all commuters: http://atrf.info/papers/2013/2013_rose_delbosc.pdf http://atrf.info/papers/2013/2013_rose_delbosc.pdf
scrumper 8y ago
The best commute I ever had was a 45m walk from the upper east side of Manhattan to midtown, through Central Park. I did it every day for two years in all weathers. What a wonderful way to see change each day, mark the seasons, feel connected to something approaching nature, and to gear up for and wind down from work. It isn't strictly productive but it is incredibly good for mental health.
- kitrose 8y ago
  When I lived in the city I did this same walk, and I've never been happier going into work in the morning.
overcast 8y ago
You're NEVER going to convince me that you're gaining any benefits over being five minutes from my house. Home to eat lunch, and take a nap in silence is worth more than any perk on this planet. I pity you all with hellish travel.
- 0xcafecafe 8y ago
  Same here. Been loving living in an apartment about 5 mins from work for the better part of a decade. Now will have to begrudgingly look for a home a bit further apart since we now have kid in the mix.
- prolikewh0a 8y ago
  I moved from a 5 minute bike ride down to Seattle from living on Capitol Hill last year, now to a 45min-1hr commute by bus every morning, and there's no way anyone is going to tell me commuting for a long time is better than being able to go home for lunch. I can't even get a dog with the commute I have now.
- astrodust 8y ago
  Five minutes is too short. Ten to fifteen is ideal. That usually means you're living and working in different neighborhoods.
  - overcast 8y ago
    Until Winter in the Northeast hits, and commute times multiply by 4x. Five is perfect yo.
    - praneshp 8y ago
      I pity you all with hellish winters. Sorry, could not resist. I envy your commute (I used to do that, now I do mountain view -> SF)
      - overcast 8y ago
        Seasons are everything, I couldn't do the 70 degrees and sunny west coast climate every day of my life.
yawz 8y ago
It's not always possible, but commuting by bicycle is great. Burning extra calories and listening to audio books (continuous learning) make the commute a productive time for me.
- markc 8y ago
  I also bike commute full time (even through Boston winters) and love it. I know I couldn't bike to music safely though. Are audiobooks different? Can you still hear approaching cars etc.? Or do you have an unusually safe route?
  - yawz 8y ago
    Ah! Almost my entire ~5 mile (each way) is on bike paths. But audiobooks are definitely different than music. Much easier to hear around as there's only a single person speaking instead of various continuous channels.
antoniuschan99 8y ago
A job I had took 7 minutes from leaving the apartment to sitting on the seat at work. One of the benefits was being able to go home and take a nap at lunch time.
murph-almighty 8y ago
My commute lasts anywhere from 1.5-2hours (NJ-NY). While I respect that this article found that Taiwanese commuters who used public transport tend to be slimmer than those who use cars, I personally find that spending 3-4 hours a day commuting interferes with my ability to actually get in physical exercise that would allow me to be slimmer in the first place! I don't dispute the accelerated learning bit- I've recently started taking out my laptop and trying to learn Go while commuting and it's been mostly productive. I had to block reddit on my phone first though...
- deleted 8y ago
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alunchbox 8y ago
I don't miss my commute by a long shot (Niagara to Toronto) all day, every day... about 2H on a good day each way during rush hours.
KozmoNau7 8y ago
I commute around 25 minutes by bike or public transit. Biking nets me daily exercise, and on the bus I can read the news or a book. Would I rather avoid the commute and have a job within walking distance if possible? Hell yeah! I'd much rather spend my commuting time at home doing something interesting.
zwieback 8y ago
I had a 70 minute commute each way for a couple years but I joined a carpool, the type where you call a number posted on the freeway. The psychological benefits of carpooling with people otherwise unrelated were, for me, surprisingly high. On the way to work we'd discuss the day ahead, on the way back recap stuff or talk about our plans for the night or weekend. I don't want to go back to long car commutes but would happily sign up for a carpool again if needed.
- irrational 8y ago
  What did you do if a project required you to stay late that day?
  - zwieback 8y ago
    Generally that just wasn't an option. I cleared it with my manager and there were only a couple of times that I can remember where we had either a customer visit or total crunch time and I'd drive myself on days where I wasn't the DD. This was in the early 90s so remote internet login wasn't even possible and we didn't have laptops either, sounds hard to believe even to myself now.
k__ 8y ago
Somehow I have the feeling that all the pros agains remote work are either only cons in disguise (you miss the water-cooler-talk -> we don't bother to set up a process) or stuff people simply don't manage to do on their own (meet people, excercise) I know people who commute over 3h a day, that makes multiple weeks a year just being "in transit"...
benzesandbetter 8y ago
Honestly, if it takes a commute for you to get these benefits, you're doing life wrong... If you're somehow in a situation where you have to commute, you can certainly make the best of it. But, let's not exalt it as some sort of healthy, zen, practice.

89 points by dsr12 8y ago

I find it massively depends on the commute. Previously, I often had to travel to visit my SO which was an hour away by train. As I almost always had a seat I could watch Coursera videos on my phone. However, I have a 20-30 minute bus ride to work everyday in which there are never free seats and you are often lucky if you even have room to reach into your pocket let alone watch videos on your phone. It's hard to see any benefit to the latter commute as being rammed in like cattle doesn't aid self-reflection either.

wink 8y ago
Agreed, even when I only have 25 mins of combined bus and subway commute, it's kinda wasted time for anything that's not "reading RSS feeds on my phone" or "read a small (by dimensions) paperback" as it's packed. Then again I still prefer this over 45mins of "sitting down", because I can somehow do something in that time even if worse case it's just listening to music and let my mind wander, whereas I see most of it wasted anyway
sundvor 8y ago
Yeah I've done public transport, car and cycle. I far prefer the latter, which doesn't make me fat and stressed the way driving a car or squeezing into an overfilled train does. (Well except for those moments when someone is trying to kill us, but you get used to those I guess...)

deleted 8y ago

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tjansen 8y ago

Years ago I worked within walking distance to the office. It took only 10 minutes to walk there. I hated it. You spend all day and night in the same neighbourhood. At lunch I went to the same places I would go to at the weekends. Life just felt so repetitive, seeing the same things every day. Today I drive 15-20 minutes to the other end of the town, with just moderate traffic, and for me that's perfect. Less stressful than public transportation, and more variety than in the old office.

hycaria 8y ago
For you that's perfect, but for others, between city pollution, traffic and plain GHG emissions, how perfect is that ?
- product50 8y ago
  Please stop making such ignorant comments. You may not realize it but a lot of folks have families and are on a schedule dropping off and picking up their kids - where driving cars/ride sharing is often the most practical way of commuting. Just because you have been able to find a place near to your office or have been able to plan your commute near train stations/shuttle stops doesn't mean everyone else can. Many times you have to optimize for other things such as schools, bigger house with a yard etc. and not all those will have great commuting options. Learn to empathize.
  - bkor 8y ago
    > a schedule dropping off and picking up their kids - where driving cars/ride sharing is often the most practical way of commuting This is mostly done on bike in The Netherlands. A normal bike supports 2 kids. There's also bikes to transport 4-5 kids. I regularly see those bigger bikes btw. It does take that your country plans things accordingly. Back in the 1960s there wasn't much of a bike infrastructure, though there were loads of cars and car accidents.
    - product50 8y ago
      Yeah - am not talking about Netherlands here. I would encourage to come to US and understand just how widespread things are. You often are working in an office which is 15 miles away from your house. No way you are biking on that regardless of how good your biking infra is.
      - KozmoNau7 8y ago
        Why not? I have had plenty of colleagues over the years who did upwards of 30km bicycle commutes, each way. If your job offers showers and lockers, it's no problem at all, once you've built up the bike stamina after a couple of weeks.

rerx 8y ago

The article points out measurable health benefits from having to walk a little to and from bus and metro stops. They totally neglected talking about the advantages of commuting by bicycle though. It would take a lot to make me switch to a job that I would not be able to reach in half an hour or so on a bike.

2T1Qka0rEiPr 8y ago
I thought this. As a cyclist, I actually find cycling to work generally very beneficial. Though, now I am a cyclist I think I'd also be reluctant to take a job which I either a) couldn't cycle to, or b) couldn't cycle to within a reasonable time (e.g. 30 minutes as you said). My switch a few years back has been almost universally positive, though I do read less as a result.
sundvor 8y ago
Yes! I'm getting old now and I'm never going back to a job where I can't ride. 45 minutes is also good - if you can use dedicated away-from-roads bike paths for the most of it :)

havocbolt 8y ago

I'm doing a compulsory end of studies internship in a big IT company in France, now I live in the other side of the paris area, and I refused many internships because they didn't allow remote work. So I started with this company and asked for remote work for 3 days a week and they accepted, but when I started they sent my supervisor to work on a different project and the new one refused any form of remote work, and it was too late to change since it's a long process between the company and the school etc... So now I do 2x2h of commute a day, and most of it is standing in a train or a subway filled with people, I tried every form of entertainment or podcasts or videos but nothing does it, I only have 1 month left though but it was the most soul crushing experience of my life. The irony in all of this is I'm a developper and their VPN works flawlessly and I'm the only one working on the project so there are at most one meeting a week and it's done over Skype since most employees work remotely, but not interns. I now believe that there are no actual benefits to commute (as in big city commute with subways etc...) and they're the ones losing manhours, since I could have put those 4h a day working on the project.

marsrover 8y ago
Or not even an extra 4 hours working on the project (why would you do that?), but a whole normal day where your brain is fresh. I’m sure you’re not in the state of mind that is optimal for work after 2 hours of a soul crushing commute.
dredalious 8y ago
So, you know how there's a shortage of IT'ers... After a month, if the internship is going well, ask them if they see this as an opportunity to acquire you right out of school. If they do, ask them how they think this will go now they refused to let you work from home after first agreeing on it.
- havocbolt 8y ago
  I'm Moroccan, I barely convinced my fiance to wait for 1 year and she either visited or I did everytime we could so I won't be staying here. But they offered to hire me, now I'm looking at jobs in Casablanca or like another comment suggested to check the REMOTE section here.

alex_hitchins 8y ago

I've commuted long distances (over an hour each way) by train and car for nearly two decades. When driving I try to get through my podcast backlog mainly on technical things, but also now more general stuff. Sometimes I miss the ability to bring the laptop out and do something fun, but then I remember when I did train in, I ended up working most of the time, and it became an extra two hours of work per day. Like all things, it's down to self-discipline I suppose.

dagw 8y ago
it became an extra two hours of work per day I have a friend of mine who commutes an hour+ by train each day and he has basically agreed with his boss that if he works on the train he can leave earlier/show up later.
- alex_hitchins 8y ago
  I've had similar arrangements too, it's nice when it's an available option.

iamphilrae 8y ago

I live in London and a few years ago I used to commute from east to west (Ealing to Liverpool Street). The trip is normally 45 minutes each way on the Central Line, however I would regularly miss out on a seat and be subjected to a cattle-class sweat box that just put me in a foul mood for the rest of the day. However, being Ealing, I also had the option of taking the District Line to rougly the same place (Tower Bridge). My journery was now 1hr 15m, however with the DL's spacious air-conditioned carriages and guaranteed seat, it was well worth it. It put me in the best state of mind and allowed me to use my laptop to work on my own projects. In 6 months of 2hrs to myself each day, I wrote medistudents.com and still was able to relax at the end of the day and not let software development impact home life. Without the commute and this opportunity to work on my own things, I would have either never found the time for a side project, or p*ssed off my girlfriend for spending all night on the laptop. Nowadays I either work from home or commute by car. It's just not the same - either from looking at the same 4 walls every day, or regarding time spent in traffic as a complete waste. And my time on my own projects has now essentially reduced to zero. So if you commute by a comfortable bus or train, spend your time wisely. Definitely don't waste it playing Candy Crush. Take advantage of it for working on a side project, learning something new, or just self-reflection.

gaius 8y ago
Take advantage of it for working on a side project, learning something new, or just self-reflection. Once I had ditched my FB habit I now use my commutes for EdX on my phone. Doesn’t always work - for some things you really need to be sitting at a desk with a real keyboard and paper and pencil - but it’s definitely possible to make good progress.
jondubois 8y ago
I had a similar experience when working in Australia. There was a lot of space for me to pull out my laptop and do some work. When I moved to Europe (London, then Berlin) the trains were too small and too crowded - Also they usually have seats facing other seats which is distracting. Not private enough for me to concentrate.
- 8y ago

lvturner 8y ago

"In the UK, for instance, he calculates that a 10% increase in the use of public transport could result in 1.2 million more people reaching the recommended levels of physical activity." I suspect that's partly because our public transport has been utterly decimated to the point that you have to walk several miles a day to get to work. Unless you live somewhere like London, I suppose.

4ndr3vv 8y ago
Hardly! if the daily level of physical activity is 30 minutes exercise per day, then this is only 7.5 minutes walking each end of the commute.

seanhandley 8y ago

The commute is a driver for one thing in this scenario: discipline. You have no choice but to commute, so you either slog through it or use the time constructively. As a 100% remote worker, I have no commute to motivate me to fill that time. But I can get up early and go running, visit the gym, read, prepare for work, do a side project etc during the exact time slot I would have been travelling to/from an office. I don't miss that time spent commuting at all but sometimes I miss the enforced discipline it provides. If I'm not feeling motivated then that time just gets eaten up by sleeping late etc. Having an external motivator like commuting means you can't be lazy.

joncrane 8y ago
Agreed. When I am optimizing to minimize time spent driving, I have to be very disciplined with when I wake up, when I leave for work, and when I leave work. It's definitely an effort, but worth it.

bitL 8y ago

If a commute takes longer than 10 minutes, it's a complete waste of time. One can try to find a "hidden pearl" there and bend arguments why it can be beneficial for improving discipline etc., nevertheless, those virtues could be achieved more efficiently without commuting while saving the most precious resource - time.

jusssi 8y ago
Working itself wastes time so much more than the commute, so it's better to free oneself from that altogether. Have all that time for yourself instead. Just drop a couple of mil * to stock market and live off the dividends. *) Not an option for most people, I know. But so is commuteless life.
- bitL 8y ago
  I meant it the way that it's better to accept that commuting is a net negative for many reasons instead of trying to put a lipstick on a pig and spin it in a positive way. Necessary evil, most of the time.

fpoling 8y ago

As a child I used to commute to the school in an overcrowded public bus of late Soviet Union type. And overcrowded meant that one had to literally squeeze oneself into the bus. As it was often impossible even to look at the window as that was covered in frost the only thing that I could do was to either observe clothes of other people or listen to what people say around. One often realized that if friends or couple are loudly talking about something interesting, then the whole bus was silent trying to listen despite the noise of the engine. On many occasions the stories or talks were so fascinating or weird that it was disappointing to leave the bus.

saiya-jin 8y ago

I recall some article mentioning people get used to most positive or negative things in their lives, and after some time level back to their original base level of happiness. There are 2 exceptions - positive one being a good pet with feedback (ie dog, or maybe even cat), and negative being longer commute. It just drains our positive energy, one bit at a time, continuously. I used to commute to work 70-90 minutes each way with many types of transport (usually bus-train-tram but sometimes more), every day. I didn't come home drained from work, that I can handle easily, but commute was soul crushing, no matter what I read/did (and mostly I could have a seat). Eventually enough was enough, I moved to the city where work is, and having 15 minute commute saves me freakin' 2+ hours of my life, every single work day. You can't put the price on that. And the move was positive change in my life for other reasons as well. Many people around me tell me they can handle long commutes, but they don't appear to be very happy in their lives. Honestly, if you can, do a change in your life. You won't regret it.

sokoloff 8y ago
For most of my 20s, I lived ~35 miles north of the city and drove to/from work. I self-reported/self-convinced that I enjoyed it most times and "didn't mind it" most other times. It made socializing, playing sports, and going out more difficult. I then moved smack into the city, had a walking commute to work for many years, and absolutely loved that. Now, my commute is 8 miles (each way) driving and while I'd prefer a walkable commute, I definitely can't imagine going back to driving 75 miles per day. I think "can handle" is the best description I could use for a long commute. You can, but try not to...
- jaclaz 8y ago
  >I think "can handle" is the best description I could use for a long commute. You can, but try not to... I concur. In my experience there is a phenomenon (in driving generically, not necessarily in driving for commuting), that I believe is connected to the fact that kms/miles driven "add up". For me this happened on or around the 1,000,000 kms mark. I know it sounds obvious/a truism but after one has driven for a (large) amount of kms in his/her life, he/she has "enough" of that. The 10/15/20 kms/minutes remain "ok", but longer commutes start to be "annoying". I am now living at a 8 km (please read as 8 minutes) drive away from work, and it is just fine, when I have to go to the nearby city (35-40 km away), and I have to do that 1 or 2 times per week, I try to avoid the car and take the train if I can. Longish trips (200-300 or more) kms are still OK (because they are not common), but I wouldn't stand the daily commute for 40 kms.

skate22 8y ago

My commute often leaves me feeling exhausted & annoyed (2 hours each way, half on the train) The main positive thing that came from this commute was reading for pleasure (somthing I was not doing beforehand) I don't try to max productivity on the commute, and my mental health thanks me for that

Rainymood 8y ago
That's half a work day spent in commute man ... why?
- skate22 8y ago
  Less than half, i spend 9 to 10 hours at the office, and I'm saving towards a house (extra cash from cheaper rent)

iliaznk 8y ago

I have to commute, but not for long, about 20 minutes by subway and some about 20-25 minutes of walking to and from subway. There're some small buses riding back and forth from and to the subway stations as well, but I deliberately walk, because nowadays you really don't get to walk much as long as you don't do it on purpose. And the subway ride - that's one of the sparse opportunities to read a book. Though, 20 minutes is not a very long while for reading, but still. Earlier the ride would take me 30-35 minutes – even more time for reading! That's what allows to me to read a lot. Relatively a lot, of course. If I was driving a car or walking all the way I wouldn't have read even half of that amount, that's for sure. So, for me, I believe, commute is definitely a useful thing, I'd say.

chrisweekly 8y ago

I'm mostly remote, but when I do commute it's podcasts / work-related non-fiction on the way in, and "attitude adjustment hour" music or audiobooks (usually fiction) for pleasure, on the way home.

superqwert 8y ago

I live in London and have a 1 hour commute by tube. I read even if I have to stand in a sweaty, crowded space. It helps with distracting me from the horrors of the journey. It also means I get ~10 hours reading done a week, which has come to ~50 books/year for the last few years. I read mostly non-fiction and usually they are textbooks on varied subjects (often not related to work). I feel this has vastly improved my understanding of the world and has meant I can talk to people about many various subjects, ones I would know almost nothing about otherwise.

Kiro 8y ago
> I feel this has vastly improved my understanding of the world and has meant I can talk to people about many various subjects, ones I would know almost nothing about otherwise. Inspiring! I often feel uneducated so would love to get in a similar position. OT but any books you recommend?
- teekert 8y ago
  Haha, definitely stick to books on topics you like, feeling uneducated does not mean you are. And if you just want to feel educated, trust me, it might never come because the more you know the more you understand that you know very little. I think it is the hallmark of the educated mind to feel a bit uneducated.

graeme 8y ago

I work from an office right around my home. I suppose I don't have to commute, but in practice I go for am ambling walk around the nearby park every morning before work. I find I work veterans this way, even if I have less time.

habosa 8y ago

Those are some nice benefits, but a commute is still mostly a waste. I did the infamous SF to Mountain View commute on "The Google Bus" for two years. It's about as decent as a 1.5hr commute can be, you're on a quiet private bus with big seats and WiFi. I spent about 80% of the time reading novels. With a few hours to myself a day I was reading a book a week no problem. In that sense it was nice. Then I got moved to the SF office. My commute turned into a 20m bike or subway. Quality of life went through the roof. My girlfriend told me I seemed happier all day. I could still read in my saved time, but I was also free to spend that time on other things. I also get to spend a lot more time with my friends since I'm available to meet up after work on short notice. Having this experience, I wouldn't go back to the commute even for a 20% raise. It's that bad.

fatnoah 8y ago
>Then I got moved to the SF office. My commute turned into a 20m bike or subway. I did the Boston version of this. My wife and I lived downtown and moved to a suburb when our son was 7 months old. My one-way commute went from a 15 minute subway ride to a 1-1.5 hour trip depending on buses and such. Five years later, we sold our house and moved back into the city and my commute shifted to a 20 minute walk. At one point, due an office move, I could see my office from my living room (I lived in a high rise). I literally gained 40-80 extra minutes a day and lost 15 pounds. I was also able to coach my son's sports teams since leaving at 4:30pm for a 5pm practice was much easier to do than leaving at 3:30pm and wondering if I'll make it in time the entire way. And now, 5 years after that, I've moved out of the city again. ADHD and a need for space and room to roam have forced the change. I'm back to a 40-60 minute commute and counting the days (approx 2800) until my son is off to college/out of the house and I can move back.
ghaff 8y ago
For about a year and a half I did a ~50% of the time commute via train that took about 90 minutes. It was less than a ten minute drive to the station and then a short walk on the other end. So not terrible. But I would never have wanted to do that long term nor every day. It's still a big chunk out of the day and forced me into a particular schedule. It also didn't work for when I wanted to do anything in the evening in which case I had a fairly congested drive even leaving quite early in the morning.

mlcrypto 8y ago

I drive about 1.5-2 hours a day and I'd like to think there are benefits for my eyes as well. My eyes get to experience all sorts of depths and colors that aren't possible while coding or playing games or TV. Kind of like a muscle, use it or lose it. I'd like to see a study done about commuters and eyesight

emodendroket 8y ago
I mean, you could just go outside independent of your commute
- mlcrypto 8y ago
  I could but I probably wouldn't since most of my hobbies are digital
  - emodendroket 8y ago
    Yeah, I get what you're saying. I probably wouldn't read as many books if I didn't take the train to work. But does that make it worthwhile to suffer through every morning? Tough call.

ensiferum 8y ago

These are not benefits of the commute. To use the examples from the article "Accelerated learning" is really not the benefit of a commute but doing "work-related prospection" (whatever that is).

emodendroket 8y ago

I think the ideal distance is probably like 15 to 30 minutes. Enough to make "work" and "home" different places and not feel like you never get away from work, but not enough to resent all the time you're frittering away listening to imbeciles chattering away on the train while you try to read.

thanatropism 8y ago
The ideal distance is like 15 to 30 minutes by foot. So you can plan to get some exercise while "gearing up" for work, but also be 5-10 minutes away by Uber in case you oversleep or emergency (at work or at home) calls.
- tokyodude 8y ago
  I'm 19 minutes by foot. it's hot and humid where I live so 5 minutes out my clothing is drenched with sweat and by the time I make it to work I have to wait about 20-25 minutes to dry off
matwood 8y ago
When I go to the office, my commute is currently ~30 minutes. It is definitely right on the edge of being too long. My main problem with a commute is not that it's 30 minutes, but that it's 30 minutes by car. I despise driving. It seems like such a complete waste of time in general. Plus, it's dangerous dealing with a bunch of idiots on their phones. /rant over
- gambiting 8y ago
  It's funny, because I specifically didn't want to live too close to the office for the exact opposite reason - I like driving, and living within walking distance would mean that I don't get to drive every day.
  - emodendroket 8y ago
    I enjoy driving... but driving during rush-hour?

glitcher 8y ago

In a sprawling US city with poor mass transit, I don't see how sitting in traffic solo in my car along with thousands of others is helping anybody's health. I'll take the time and money savings of working from home any day. By a very conservative estimate, commuting to work used up about 12 full days of my life every year.

pouetpouet 8y ago

The benefits drop precipitously after the 15 or 20min mark. A 10-20min walking or biking commute is good. 30min of driving in traffic is not.

stronglikedan 8y ago
> 30min of driving in traffic is not. Unless you like to drive, or in my case, love to drive. I.e., it's subjective.
- sincerely 8y ago
  I love driving. I absolutely hate driving in traffic.

option 8y ago

I live in CA and often comute on my motrcycle. It’s a joy - carpool lanes, lane spliting, and a motorcycle I like. About 15 mins by motorcycle and could easily be 40 by car (because of carpool lanes and lane splitting, not speed)

Schwolop 8y ago
We are the 1%... :-) Specifically, I do this in Melbourne, Australia where it's free and legal to park a motorcycle on the pavement (aka sidewalk). A 2012 study found that we make up almost exactly 1% of all commuters: http://atrf.info/papers/2013/2013_rose_delbosc.pdf http://atrf.info/papers/2013/2013_rose_delbosc.pdf

scrumper 8y ago

The best commute I ever had was a 45m walk from the upper east side of Manhattan to midtown, through Central Park. I did it every day for two years in all weathers. What a wonderful way to see change each day, mark the seasons, feel connected to something approaching nature, and to gear up for and wind down from work. It isn't strictly productive but it is incredibly good for mental health.

kitrose 8y ago
When I lived in the city I did this same walk, and I've never been happier going into work in the morning.

overcast 8y ago

You're NEVER going to convince me that you're gaining any benefits over being five minutes from my house. Home to eat lunch, and take a nap in silence is worth more than any perk on this planet. I pity you all with hellish travel.

0xcafecafe 8y ago
Same here. Been loving living in an apartment about 5 mins from work for the better part of a decade. Now will have to begrudgingly look for a home a bit further apart since we now have kid in the mix.
prolikewh0a 8y ago
I moved from a 5 minute bike ride down to Seattle from living on Capitol Hill last year, now to a 45min-1hr commute by bus every morning, and there's no way anyone is going to tell me commuting for a long time is better than being able to go home for lunch. I can't even get a dog with the commute I have now.
astrodust 8y ago
Five minutes is too short. Ten to fifteen is ideal. That usually means you're living and working in different neighborhoods.
- overcast 8y ago
  Until Winter in the Northeast hits, and commute times multiply by 4x. Five is perfect yo.
  - praneshp 8y ago
    I pity you all with hellish winters. Sorry, could not resist. I envy your commute (I used to do that, now I do mountain view -> SF)
    - overcast 8y ago
      Seasons are everything, I couldn't do the 70 degrees and sunny west coast climate every day of my life.

yawz 8y ago

It's not always possible, but commuting by bicycle is great. Burning extra calories and listening to audio books (continuous learning) make the commute a productive time for me.

markc 8y ago
I also bike commute full time (even through Boston winters) and love it. I know I couldn't bike to music safely though. Are audiobooks different? Can you still hear approaching cars etc.? Or do you have an unusually safe route?
- yawz 8y ago
  Ah! Almost my entire ~5 mile (each way) is on bike paths. But audiobooks are definitely different than music. Much easier to hear around as there's only a single person speaking instead of various continuous channels.

antoniuschan99 8y ago

A job I had took 7 minutes from leaving the apartment to sitting on the seat at work. One of the benefits was being able to go home and take a nap at lunch time.

murph-almighty 8y ago

My commute lasts anywhere from 1.5-2hours (NJ-NY). While I respect that this article found that Taiwanese commuters who used public transport tend to be slimmer than those who use cars, I personally find that spending 3-4 hours a day commuting interferes with my ability to actually get in physical exercise that would allow me to be slimmer in the first place! I don't dispute the accelerated learning bit- I've recently started taking out my laptop and trying to learn Go while commuting and it's been mostly productive. I had to block reddit on my phone first though...

deleted 8y ago
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alunchbox 8y ago

I don't miss my commute by a long shot (Niagara to Toronto) all day, every day... about 2H on a good day each way during rush hours.

KozmoNau7 8y ago

I commute around 25 minutes by bike or public transit. Biking nets me daily exercise, and on the bus I can read the news or a book. Would I rather avoid the commute and have a job within walking distance if possible? Hell yeah! I'd much rather spend my commuting time at home doing something interesting.

zwieback 8y ago

I had a 70 minute commute each way for a couple years but I joined a carpool, the type where you call a number posted on the freeway. The psychological benefits of carpooling with people otherwise unrelated were, for me, surprisingly high. On the way to work we'd discuss the day ahead, on the way back recap stuff or talk about our plans for the night or weekend. I don't want to go back to long car commutes but would happily sign up for a carpool again if needed.

irrational 8y ago
What did you do if a project required you to stay late that day?
- zwieback 8y ago
  Generally that just wasn't an option. I cleared it with my manager and there were only a couple of times that I can remember where we had either a customer visit or total crunch time and I'd drive myself on days where I wasn't the DD. This was in the early 90s so remote internet login wasn't even possible and we didn't have laptops either, sounds hard to believe even to myself now.

k__ 8y ago

Somehow I have the feeling that all the pros agains remote work are either only cons in disguise (you miss the water-cooler-talk -> we don't bother to set up a process) or stuff people simply don't manage to do on their own (meet people, excercise) I know people who commute over 3h a day, that makes multiple weeks a year just being "in transit"...

benzesandbetter 8y ago

Honestly, if it takes a commute for you to get these benefits, you're doing life wrong... If you're somehow in a situation where you have to commute, you can certainly make the best of it. But, let's not exalt it as some sort of healthy, zen, practice.