37 ms·

Apple releases software fix for MacBook Pro slowdown

460 points by shawndumas 8y ago

ketralnis 8y ago
> Following extensive performance testing under numerous workloads, we’ve identified that there is a missing digital key in the firmware that impacts the thermal management system and could drive clock speeds down under heavy thermal loads on the new MacBook Pro. A bug fix is included in today’s macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 Supplemental Update and is recommended. We apologize to any customer who has experienced less than optimal performance on their new systems. Customers can expect the new 15-inch MacBook Pro to be up to 70% faster, and the 13-inch MacBook Pro with Touch Bar to be up to 2X faster, as shown in the performance results on our website. Any idea what "digital key" could mean here?
- jrockway 8y ago
  This earlier HN thread has all the details: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17602146 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17602146
  - madeofpalk 8y ago
    There are no additional details in that thread.
- kevindqc 8y ago
  Huge performance difference - how did they not notice before?
  - sgillen 8y ago
    The article made it seem like this only affected a small number of units? Their quality control probably doesn’t look at every single unit. Although it’s interesting that they didn’t find it at all, since reading HN and reddit gave me the impression it was very widespread.
    - jmull 8y ago
      Generally you can’t get a sense for how widespread an issue is from social media, because it’s a perfect medium for confirmation bias. Confirming links and stories are shared/upvoted/forwarded while non-confirming ones are ignored or dismissed (or outright attacked for some reason).
      - toasterlovin 8y ago
        This is basically the story of the modern world as viewed through the distorting lens that is media (and especially social media). I wish people would take the two sentences you wrote and then use them as a corrective lens that undoes this distorted perspective.
        sgillen 8y ago
        Yeah it’s really hard to correct the perspective to the truth though if all you have is social media. Honestly I’ve been putting less and less trust in almost all my sources of knowledge recently.
        tjr225 8y ago
        It's so, so strange that 10-20 years ago my parents told me not to trust what I read on the internet...and now that they're all using it they have seem forgotten their own advice.
        pokemongoaway 8y ago
        Yes it is exactly the same people that said "you can't trust it because it is 'from the internet'" who still now cling hardest to their trusted source of media.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
    - toasterlovin 8y ago
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- jmole 8y ago
  Key, as in key-value pair, perhaps
- ggg9990 8y ago
  Yikes, pretty bad showing by Apple here. They don't have the leeway that they did when they had Steve Jobs... they have tremendous brand loyalty, but will need to be more careful in the future.
  - tomp 8y ago
    > they have tremendous brand loyalty, but will need to be more careful in the future. Does that really matter though? I was just discussing this with someone over the weekend... his thesis was that people buy Apple because of branding, which might be true as far as the majority of customers are concerned... But for people like me (powerusers), MacBooks are simply the best possible choice. Everything else is either adware (Windows 10), or not usable (Linux laptops lack deiver support (last I heard) You can’t install software on Chromebooks, Windows 7 doesn’t have a Unix subsystem). Not to mention that Apple hardware is beyond superior, and the software mostly just works (things like wi-fi, backups, sharing, ...)
    - gaius 8y ago
      Everything else is either adware (Windows 10) I am running Windows 10 Pro on a Surface. I haven’t seen a single ad, anywhere. If that’s your only reason let me set your mind at rest. Surface is a better Mac than a Mac at this point. That’s why I upgraded my old MBP to one rather than a new MBP.
      - chipotle_coyote 8y ago
        The Surface is probably a great Surface, and you might prefer it to a Mac, but a Surface is a terrible Mac, for much the same reason a Mac is a terrible Surface.
        gaius 8y ago
        As I say, I upgraded my MacBook Pro - for that is what MBP means - to a Surface, so I am quite familiar with both thanks. But by all means ignore my advice and pay through the nose for a device that is blatantly not fit for purpose, I'll be over here enjoying the superior computing experience that Steve Jobs would have wanted me to have!
- jarjoura 8y ago
  My guess is a sensor requires a signed connection, much like how HDCP works. Seems a bit over-engineered if Apple is building protected sensors, but would also love to hear from someone in the know.
  - barbegal 8y ago
    My guess would be that they shipped with an updated firmware version to the one programmed in the factory. It should have upgraded the first time the device is powered on but because of a missing security signature or maybe key to verify a signature, the firmware update wasn't applied. This is still just a guess but signed firmware is becoming much more common.
  - gruez 8y ago
    "key" as in dictionary key, not cryptographic key
- sschueller 8y ago
  I don't see how you can get more cooling with a firmware change when the fans are already going at full speed. Does that mean the whole unit will now run hotter before it starts to throttle? How is this going to impact some of those bad solder joints MacBooks are famous for?
  - coldtea 8y ago
    >I don't see how you can get more cooling with a firmware change when the fans are already going at full speed It's not about what you do when the temperature if at its peaks and the fans are going at full speed, it's about how you avoid getting there. >How is this going to impact some of those bad solder joints MacBooks are famous for? When did MacBooks became famous for "bad solder joints"?
    - stcredzero 8y ago
      Watch a bunch of Louis Rossman YouTube videos. He knows all about the seedy underbelly of Macbook hardware design mistakes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AcEt073Uds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AcEt073Uds
      - dpkonofa 8y ago
        A few things that I take issue with here: 1) Louis Rossman has a vested interest in drumming up attention for his videos and has, on multiple occasions, used false statements and misleading practices to do so. Just like in the initial release video of the Touch Bar MBPs where he used an unshielded USB-A to USB-C cable and then complained that WiFi wasn't working. When used with a shielded cable, the issue went away and yet he never issued a correction or retraction. The issue was with the adapter he used, not the computer. Which leads directly to... 2) The issue stated in that video that required reballing was an issue with nVidia chips and affected all laptops that used that platform, both PC and Mac. To suggest that it was an engineering issue on Apple's part is disingenuous and only further reinforces the idea that he's not making these videos to be helpful but to drive traffic to his channel and repairs to his store. 3) Just look at how he used the Linus story to get the repair done at his shop. He has a pattern and, unlike what most people think, it's not altruistic. It's all to benefit him. I don't blame him but let's not pretend that he's doing this because he cares about users or the "right to repair" movement. He cares because he can mislabel and misconstrue the positions of the people against it to benefit his business. He'd love it if Apple was forced to provide him schematics and docs. He's in it for himself.
- dogma1138 8y ago
  My bet is that sensors don’t output absolute values and you need to use an offset to get the correct “reading” for your thermal profile and cooling. Basically based on the location and type of sensor(s) and your cooling solution you will apply an offset to get the actual temperature to be used for managing the power profile and cooling of the component. This is pretty common and the reason why many apps don’t readout the temperature of newly released components correctly. Ofc it can be something completely different and Apple is hiding the actual cause but I don’t deal with tinfoil fashion accessories.
  - bredren 8y ago
    >Ofc it can be something completely different and Apple is hiding the actual cause but I don’t deal with tinfoil fashion accessories. Which is a shame because the theme this year is I, Robot.
- mariopt 8y ago
  I would bet my money on the Apple T2 SoC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple-designed_processors#Apple_T2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple-designed_processors#Appl...
- skrause 8y ago
  Probably the MSR_TURBO_POWER_LIMIT value as described in https://www.reddit.com/r/macbookpro/comments/91256u/optimal_cpu_tuning_settings_for_i9_mbp_to_stop/ https://www.reddit.com/r/macbookpro/comments/91256u/optimal_...
  - aroman 8y ago
    That analysis is incredible, how was the OP able to figure all of that out!?
    - baybal2 8y ago
      Intel's HDK docs?
    - DavideNL 8y ago
      I don't know, but apparently (1): >> Originally posted at MacRumors by winterny >> https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/optimal-cpu-tuning-settings-for-i9-mbp-to-stop-vrm-throttling-explanation-of-apples-engineering-f.2128936/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/optimal-cpu-tuning-sett... 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17602455 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17602455
      - DuskStar 8y ago
        The Reddit post was about 20 minutes earlier.
    - old-gregg 8y ago
      I've experienced some early adopter pains with the desktop version of this CPU (x299 platform) when it came out and I used linux kernel mailing list to search for answers. I was surprised how easy it was to read the code of the related kernel modules and interact with their authors (Intel engineers). These "magic codes" are probably just #define macros somewhere in the kernel repo, in my case it was in [1] [1] https://github.com/torvalds/linux/tree/master/drivers/platform/x86 https://github.com/torvalds/linux/tree/master/drivers/platfo...
    - 8y ago
chrisper 8y ago
Yeah, and if this will make the Macbook run so hot it will bend, Apple needs to be sued first until they will start repairing this under "extended warranty." Looks like I forgot I am on HN - the Apple fanboy Club. Just look back how often Apple had to get sued first to get them to admit to an issue and to repair their own fuckup.
- ceejayoz 8y ago
  > Yeah, and if this will make the Macbook run so hot it will bend... That's a big "if". They're not removing the thermal controls, just making them work correctly.
  - chrisper 8y ago
    Well, VW etc didn't remove emissions control either. They just changed them such that they work better in "benchmarks" at other costs. Now these laptops work better in benchmark, but at what costs? Longetivity of the laptop or battery? Keyboard melting away? Obviously it's not going to bend. That was a snarky comment. But you get my point.
    - ceejayoz 8y ago
      > But you get my point. I don't, really. They had a bug that caused the chips to throttle down way more than necessary. It's like VW having a car that won't go more than 20mph on a hot day because of some bad software - there's no reason that fixing the software will mean VW cars suddenly can't handle going normal 65mph speeds.
    - gknoy 8y ago
      It sound like the thermals might be fine, but the interpretation of the metrics were faulty, in such a way that it made the controllers panic and think they needed to throttle the CPU and run the fans hard.
    - 1123581321 8y ago
      I understand your point but disagree. This fix should provide higher performance at the same temperature. A new risk isn’t being introduced. It sounds counter-intuitive that software can improve hardware performance with no tradeoffs and I’m not sure how to best get past that other than running your own tests and reading others’.
Exuma 8y ago
Well that's quite nice
- fhood 8y ago
  If they are on the up and up and that really is the problem. I hope it is though. I was getting really depressed at the idea of switching to something else.
bwang29 8y ago
Thanks Apple, now back to keyboard and Touch Bar.
- blacksmith_tb 8y ago
  They did (quietly) roll out improvements[1] to the keyboard, though time will tell if they actually help enough... 1: https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/7/19/17590100/apple-macbook-pro-keyboard-membrane-dust-problem-fix-leaked https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/7/19/17590100/a...
  - hajile 8y ago
    They need to improve the key travel. If I wanted to type on a flat board, I'd get a Yoga Book. https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/tablets/android-tablets/yoga-book-series/Lenovo-Yoga-Book/p/ZZITZTOYB1F https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/tablets/android-tablets/yoga-bo...
    - matthewmacleod 8y ago
      I for one am much happier with the newer keyboard and now the old one feels weirdly mushy and gross. I reckon keyboards are a matter of taste ultimately.
      - sigzero 8y ago
        Yes, I like the 2017 keyboard. I'm not ecstatic over it but definitely usable for me. I also like the touchbar. Maybe I'm just weird.
        xvector 8y ago
        TouchBar is quite amazing once you know the gestures, too. Tapping and holding the volume/brightness key and sliding it for super-precise volume or brightness control is an amazing feature.
      - sumedh 8y ago
ovrdrv3 8y ago
Happy to see Dave2D at the forefront of this. He gives solid advice and puts out crispy 4K content on YouTube. Link to his channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVYamHliCI9rw1tHR1xbkfw https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVYamHliCI9rw1tHR1xbkfw
- curiousgal 8y ago
  I feel bad for the other famous YouTuber who published a video basically saying that everyone are overreacting.
  - SteveNuts 8y ago
    For every internet action there's an equal and opposite overreaction.
    - davidkuhta 8y ago
      The 3rd Law of Emotion.
      - warrenm 8y ago
        The 3rd Law of Emoticon ftfy
  - eudora 8y ago
    Wait who?
    - spacemonkey92 8y ago
      Jonathan Morrison (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-p9-QZSdPM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-p9-QZSdPM)
xucheng 8y ago
Possible details on what went wrong: https://www.reddit.com/r/macbookpro/comments/91256u/optimal_cpu_tuning_settings_for_i9_mbp_to_stop/ https://www.reddit.com/r/macbookpro/comments/91256u/optimal_... TL;DR The CPU is stuck in a cycle of switching between minimum clock frequency and turbo speed.
mikhailt 8y ago
Dave (the guy who Apple mentioned working with to find this issue) already tweeted that the performance is "soo much better". Source: https://twitter.com/Dave2Dtv/status/1021817313555755009 https://twitter.com/Dave2Dtv/status/1021817313555755009
- njloof 8y ago
  Has he tried setting it on his bare legs during the test?
  - satysin 8y ago
    Why would anyone put a high end laptop on their legs while doing a prolonged intensive task such as video rendering??
    - bradenb 8y ago
      Isn't part of the definition of a laptop that it should be able to be used comfortably resting on the user's lap?
      - satysin 8y ago
        Well you can put it on your bare legs if you really want to and during general use doing so is fine but rendering video is going to make it get hot and very uncomfortable.
        namibj 8y ago
        Place a W-series Thinpad on your bare legs on a warm summer day (think you can just still survive/think at all without A/C). You will want to get it away as you can't sweat well under it, and it's dumping some heat into your blood. That's it, despite some discomfort you won't mind it. And apparently the make them with more TDP than apple seems to be able to handle, but instead of an i9 they appear to jump directly to a Xeon. Those start at over $3500 in base configuration though....
sgillen 8y ago
I’m glad it was just a software bug. It still seems like Apple’s quality control has gone way done over the last few years. My hypothesis is that there has been a change in culture as the company gets bigger with less emphasis on rigorous testing of the code? It would be interesting to get some perspective from a longtime Apple employee on this.
- alistairSH 8y ago
  It still seems like Apple’s quality control has gone way done over the last few years. I doubt it. They've had problems for years... bulging batteries, bad solder, bendy iPhones, etc. But, is the quality really going down, or is Apple just an easy target? I tend to think it's more of the later. I've had Lenovos and Dells for work and they've not been perfect.
  - sgillen 8y ago
    That’s a good point, for me it’s more that I perceive that the quality of Apple quality control used to be very high, and now it’s coming down to earth. It’s this shift that has people upset I think not the fact that Apple products have more issues than those of other vendors.
    - rsynnott 8y ago
      A friend had one of those white G3 iBooks. It got replaced about five times, and I think they eventually gave him a successor G4 one. Apple's never been perfect.
      - kalleboo 8y ago
        My mom had one too. They put the GPU right under the wristrest, so that you'd crack the solder just by typing. Eventually they added a plastic collar around it but that only moved the stress to the motherboard.
- adpirz 8y ago
  The alternative is this issue came up, and they had a trade off to make with heat + noise vs cooler + quieter, and out of the gate they bet on cooler and quieter; with the backlash, they’re realizing it was the wrong bet, and fixing a “bug.” I have to imagine that basic stress testing would have caught this somewhere.
IOT_Apprentice 8y ago
Apple used an inadequately cooled VRM that's incapable of sustaining the power required to run the CPU at full speed. See the link below. https://www.reddit.com/r/macbookpro/comments/91256u/optimal_cpu_tuning_settings_for_i9_mbp_to_stop/ https://www.reddit.com/r/macbookpro/comments/91256u/optimal_...
auggierose 8y ago
Other reason for thermal slowdown: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16689070 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16689070
jgh 8y ago
Does this impact all macbook pros with the touch bar, or just the 2018 models?
- toasterlovin 8y ago
  Only the recently released ones were affected.
  - jgh 8y ago
    OK, thanks for the answer instead of the downvote :P
dep_b 8y ago
Nice, I was going to buy the lowest spec CPU version of the 2018 yes or yes so seeing that the thermal issues are getting improved just affirms my decision. I think the 2018 might be the new 2015. Apple MacBooks are like classic wines, some years are better than others, but you'll pay through the nose for every vintage anyway ;) My 2008 alu worked without a hitch for 10 years until a bad third party battery started to give problems together with the keyboard a month ago and I decided not to try to fix it anymore: that wasn't a bad investment.
- joshstrange 8y ago
  That's my hope as well, as soon as I saw the iFixit report on the silicone cones on the keys I pulled the trigger on the 15" i9 32GB RAM 1TB SSD and I love it. This throttling issue worried me a lot but after the fix I am seeing it not fall below clock [0]. I came from a late-2013 which was a great laptop (though I know the 2015 was the sweet spot, I was going to upgrade to that if the 2018 didn't address my top issues but it did so I went for the 2018). [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17603760 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17603760
  - dep_b 8y ago
    That's sweet. I wasn't sure this fix would be able to tame the i9.
joshstrange 8y ago
This appears to be working as expected. Here is a graph [0] of the Intel Power Gadget while I ran Cinebench. They are not the same length because it took longer before the update and I cut out the parts before and after. Pretty striking difference IMHO and it never went below base clock after the update. I was worried about my i9 but I'm not anymore. Also if anyone is wondering it went from 780cb -> 860cb but I wouldn't put too much stock in that since I've got other apps open (same apps for both tests) and 3 external monitors attached. Some people report 1100cb score after the fix. [0] https://www.dropbox.com/s/y30x13mi6ozhg0k/10.16.3S-Fix.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/y30x13mi6ozhg0k/10.16.3S-Fix.png?d...
- onewhonknocks 8y ago
  Thank you for letting us know.
- satysin 8y ago
  Hmm my i7 8850H gets 1024cb[0] so I would expect your i9 to do better than 860cb even with some other stuff going on at the same time. https://i.imgur.com/o83CM33.png https://i.imgur.com/o83CM33.png
  - joshstrange 8y ago
    I don’t doubt it can do better, I just have a bunch running in the background and this was right after startup (after applying the patch).
- DennisAleynikov 8y ago
  Glad to hear the fix works out for you. It's rare that apple will fix something like this so fast, but it's entirely possible this just slipped past QA since apple doesn't test throttling that thoroughly it seems.
  - ams6110 8y ago
    Which is strange if they're not, because their sleek and slim designs would seem to allow a very minimal margin for error on heat dissipation. you would think that would be the subject of quite a bit of testing on the hardware side of things.
unknown_apostle 8y ago
Even with the fix, I'm afraid you're still shilling out a lot of money for top hardware that can't be used to its maximum extent. Because of the thin form factor limitations, insufficient thermal design and possibly even something as silly as not using the best thermal paste. And the system as a whole will still run quite hot for high CPU+GPU loads, so who knows how that affects the electronics and battery life longer term. Please, Apple, just make it 1mm thicker already.
- ben010783 8y ago
  People bought them knowing that they were making tradeoffs in performance, but the real problem was that the computers were not even hitting their advertised specs.
- Razengan 8y ago
  They're still very good when you consider everything across the board, including the battery life, ecosystem and support, and apparently the best in some areas like SSD performance: [0] https://www.macrumors.com/2018/07/13/2018-macbook-pro-fastest-laptop-ssd-ever/ https://www.macrumors.com/2018/07/13/2018-macbook-pro-fastes... [1] https://9to5mac.com/2016/11/01/2016-macbook-pro-ssd/ https://9to5mac.com/2016/11/01/2016-macbook-pro-ssd/
satysin 8y ago
Great to see Apple address this so quickly. The throttling issues didn't effect me and my workload (iOS and Android development) but it clearly caused bit issues for those doing video editing. I have installed the update and so far so good. I have only had this 2018 model for a little over a day but I am loving the keyboard changes and TrueTone display and performance for me is superb.
westoque 8y ago
Shouldn't there be performance testing for common tasks (rendering video) like what Dave2D did? For a company like Apple that has a lot of resources, wouldn't it make sense to have that department that does just that, performance testing on specific apps. The testers can just focus on Apple software for ex (iMovie, Final Cut) and they could have caught this "bug" earlier.
- wodenokoto 8y ago
  There is and they should. But bugs tend to find a way anyway.
  - ajross 8y ago
    Yeah, but... let's be honest. This kind of integration flaw is a very... well, let's just say it's a very "Hewlett Packard" kind of bug, and the kind of thing we've come to not expect from "Apple Computer".
    - VeejayRampay 8y ago
      They're a small upcoming company, they're doing their best, let's cut them some slack.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
NightlyDev 8y ago
"could drive clock speeds down under heavy thermal loads" So now it just don't give a shit and fires away at the highest clock, without a care in the world about temperatures? The clock speed should go down under "heavy thermal load", that's not a bug...
- haikuginger 8y ago
  The CPU itself had plenty of thermal headroom, but was overdrawing the power system - which then thermally throttled itself way more aggressively and in a less-controlled manner. The update changes the curve to ensure that the CPU doesn't draw more power than the power system can handle for extended periods. The CPU will still downclock itself as needed if it experiences its own thermal overload.
  - NightlyDev 8y ago
    Are you saying Intel CPUs now can adapt to power loss, instead of just not working? I doubt that very much. The CPU got too hot(easily reaching 100C) so there was definetly not "plenty of headroom", in fact, there was no headroom at all.
    - zaarn 8y ago
      It's not a powerloss but voltage goes down. Modern VRMs can also signal their power capabilies and reserves. If the CPU draws more current than the VRM can handle, this is usually okay within bounds for a very short time, after than you'll get dropping voltage when the VRM starts to self regulate and the CPU will downclock in response.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
flying_sheep 8y ago
I doubt if this patch will decrease the lifespan of MacBook. Because for silicon chips, 10 degree Celsius rise in operating temperature will roughly decrease life span by half. If Apple relax the temperature constraint by 20 degree Celsius (e.g. from 50 degree to 70 degree), it is expected that the lifespan of some component will decrease by 75%.
- rasz 8y ago
  Except macbooks almost never see 50, and rarely 70 degrees, its 80-100 all day when actually using cpu.
  - flying_sheep 8y ago
    Oh my god. That number is unimaginable. Even if my full power desktop i7 can't reach this number. Chips will die very quickly in this temperature. I think Apple is having a real trouble.
crb002 8y ago
Is this really a software bug or are they now going to have heat related failures by voiding Intel's specs? Just running an already hot laptop hotter can't be good.
S_A_P 8y ago
I didn’t follow my own advice and I bought a new top spec i9 MacBook Pro. I’ve an iMac pro with a persistent issue that causes kernel panics. Apple is gathering information about the issue and I’ve had a few calls with an engineer. So far it isn’t fixed. When I got my i9 mbp I noticed the fan was quite active and it was fast, but not significantly better than my 2014 mbp quad core. I just updated with the fix this morning and so far I notice way less fan usage and it did seem to be a bit snappier. I will run some benchmarks later and see where it lands. If it isn’t working I’m about ready to abandon platform. Sucks because my entire music studio is Mac based.
heavymark 8y ago
It says the fix is for High Sierra. For everyone running Mojave on the new MBP, will there be a fix for that as well, or was it previously patched in Mojave already?
- tgcordell 8y ago
  As Mojave is in beta right now, I don't think Apple feels obligated to rush out a Supplemental update like they did for their production OS. Also not sure how they would have already patched in Mojave if they hadn't had it fixed in HS when the hardware was released. I expect the next Mojave beta release to resolve this, but don't expect the next release to come faster due to this bug.
code_duck 8y ago
I had a serious slowdown issue on my 2010 MacBook Pro that took me a few years to figure out. It started after I spilled tea on it. The system appeared to function normally, but was very slow. When I ran top as root, it showed that kernel process was always using one core (>100% out of 200). I tried reinstalling the OS, changing options and upgrading, to no avail. Apparently, the OS does this to prevent thermal damage. It perceives that the CPU is overheating, so it sends one core into an idle loop to prevent it from doing real work. Finally, I took it to an Apple repair shop whose diagnostics determined the CPU thermal sensor was not working. That didn’t immediately help. After much web searching, I found that a fix for this it was to completely disable the power management profile by deleting it. Now the machine works perfectly normally in terms of everything - heat, fans and performance. The machine seems to work identically to its original behavior, so I am puzzled at what function the power management profile performs.
exabrial 8y ago
Congrats to Apple for handling this correctly: not suing the guy. The bad news is this escaped your QA process. That never would have happened 10 years ago.
- carlesfe 8y ago
  > That never would have happened 10 years ago The Macbook Pro from 2008 literally had a thermal issue. It made some units not boot at all. And it required a logic board replace, not just a software fix. https://www.ifixit.com/Wiki/MacBook_Pro_15%22_Unibody_Troubleshooting#Section_Thermal_Sensor_Issues https://www.ifixit.com/Wiki/MacBook_Pro_15%22_Unibody_Troubl... "If the fans run at high RPMs, but the computer does not boot, there is probably an issue with the thermal sensors. Late 2008/Early 2009 models feature a thermal sensor on the heat sink. First, ensure that the thermal sensor on the heat sink is plugged into the logic board. If it is, try replacing the heat sink. If this does not fix the problem, the logic board most likely needs to be replaced."
- sologoub 8y ago
  Yeah, 10 years ago we were just frying mainboards with the NVIDIA chips and insufficient cooling: https://www.google.com/amp/s/gizmodo.com/5061605/apple-confirms-failing-nvidia-graphics-cards-in-macbook-pros-offers-free-repairs-and-refunds/amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/gizmodo.com/5061605/apple-confi...
dharma1 8y ago
works ok for me after the update. Cinebench 1020 and CPU clock speed stays at 3ghz under load. Ran it several times and it's the same each time. 99fps for the GPU in cb opengl test, though that drops a couple of fps each time you run the test. Temps still high, up to 95% during cb but I guess that's expected with this type of laptop body under extreme load and can be somewhat mitigated with external fans. I was going to return this but will keep it now.
- rasz 8y ago
  so still slower than older 2.6GHz i7

460 points by shawndumas 8y ago

> Following extensive performance testing under numerous workloads, we’ve identified that there is a missing digital key in the firmware that impacts the thermal management system and could drive clock speeds down under heavy thermal loads on the new MacBook Pro. A bug fix is included in today’s macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 Supplemental Update and is recommended. We apologize to any customer who has experienced less than optimal performance on their new systems. Customers can expect the new 15-inch MacBook Pro to be up to 70% faster, and the 13-inch MacBook Pro with Touch Bar to be up to 2X faster, as shown in the performance results on our website. Any idea what "digital key" could mean here?

jrockway 8y ago
This earlier HN thread has all the details: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17602146 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17602146
- madeofpalk 8y ago
  There are no additional details in that thread.
kevindqc 8y ago
Huge performance difference - how did they not notice before?
- sgillen 8y ago
  The article made it seem like this only affected a small number of units? Their quality control probably doesn’t look at every single unit. Although it’s interesting that they didn’t find it at all, since reading HN and reddit gave me the impression it was very widespread.
  - jmull 8y ago
    Generally you can’t get a sense for how widespread an issue is from social media, because it’s a perfect medium for confirmation bias. Confirming links and stories are shared/upvoted/forwarded while non-confirming ones are ignored or dismissed (or outright attacked for some reason).
    - toasterlovin 8y ago
      This is basically the story of the modern world as viewed through the distorting lens that is media (and especially social media). I wish people would take the two sentences you wrote and then use them as a corrective lens that undoes this distorted perspective.
      - sgillen 8y ago
        Yeah it’s really hard to correct the perspective to the truth though if all you have is social media. Honestly I’ve been putting less and less trust in almost all my sources of knowledge recently.
        tjr225 8y ago
        It's so, so strange that 10-20 years ago my parents told me not to trust what I read on the internet...and now that they're all using it they have seem forgotten their own advice.
        pokemongoaway 8y ago
        Yes it is exactly the same people that said "you can't trust it because it is 'from the internet'" who still now cling hardest to their trusted source of media.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
  - toasterlovin 8y ago
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
jmole 8y ago
Key, as in key-value pair, perhaps
ggg9990 8y ago
Yikes, pretty bad showing by Apple here. They don't have the leeway that they did when they had Steve Jobs... they have tremendous brand loyalty, but will need to be more careful in the future.
- tomp 8y ago
  > they have tremendous brand loyalty, but will need to be more careful in the future. Does that really matter though? I was just discussing this with someone over the weekend... his thesis was that people buy Apple because of branding, which might be true as far as the majority of customers are concerned... But for people like me (powerusers), MacBooks are simply the best possible choice. Everything else is either adware (Windows 10), or not usable (Linux laptops lack deiver support (last I heard) You can’t install software on Chromebooks, Windows 7 doesn’t have a Unix subsystem). Not to mention that Apple hardware is beyond superior, and the software mostly just works (things like wi-fi, backups, sharing, ...)
  - gaius 8y ago
    Everything else is either adware (Windows 10) I am running Windows 10 Pro on a Surface. I haven’t seen a single ad, anywhere. If that’s your only reason let me set your mind at rest. Surface is a better Mac than a Mac at this point. That’s why I upgraded my old MBP to one rather than a new MBP.
    - chipotle_coyote 8y ago
      The Surface is probably a great Surface, and you might prefer it to a Mac, but a Surface is a terrible Mac, for much the same reason a Mac is a terrible Surface.
      - gaius 8y ago
        As I say, I upgraded my MacBook Pro - for that is what MBP means - to a Surface, so I am quite familiar with both thanks. But by all means ignore my advice and pay through the nose for a device that is blatantly not fit for purpose, I'll be over here enjoying the superior computing experience that Steve Jobs would have wanted me to have!
jarjoura 8y ago
My guess is a sensor requires a signed connection, much like how HDCP works. Seems a bit over-engineered if Apple is building protected sensors, but would also love to hear from someone in the know.
- barbegal 8y ago
  My guess would be that they shipped with an updated firmware version to the one programmed in the factory. It should have upgraded the first time the device is powered on but because of a missing security signature or maybe key to verify a signature, the firmware update wasn't applied. This is still just a guess but signed firmware is becoming much more common.
- gruez 8y ago
  "key" as in dictionary key, not cryptographic key
sschueller 8y ago
I don't see how you can get more cooling with a firmware change when the fans are already going at full speed. Does that mean the whole unit will now run hotter before it starts to throttle? How is this going to impact some of those bad solder joints MacBooks are famous for?
- coldtea 8y ago
  >I don't see how you can get more cooling with a firmware change when the fans are already going at full speed It's not about what you do when the temperature if at its peaks and the fans are going at full speed, it's about how you avoid getting there. >How is this going to impact some of those bad solder joints MacBooks are famous for? When did MacBooks became famous for "bad solder joints"?
  - stcredzero 8y ago
    Watch a bunch of Louis Rossman YouTube videos. He knows all about the seedy underbelly of Macbook hardware design mistakes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AcEt073Uds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AcEt073Uds
    - dpkonofa 8y ago
      A few things that I take issue with here: 1) Louis Rossman has a vested interest in drumming up attention for his videos and has, on multiple occasions, used false statements and misleading practices to do so. Just like in the initial release video of the Touch Bar MBPs where he used an unshielded USB-A to USB-C cable and then complained that WiFi wasn't working. When used with a shielded cable, the issue went away and yet he never issued a correction or retraction. The issue was with the adapter he used, not the computer. Which leads directly to... 2) The issue stated in that video that required reballing was an issue with nVidia chips and affected all laptops that used that platform, both PC and Mac. To suggest that it was an engineering issue on Apple's part is disingenuous and only further reinforces the idea that he's not making these videos to be helpful but to drive traffic to his channel and repairs to his store. 3) Just look at how he used the Linus story to get the repair done at his shop. He has a pattern and, unlike what most people think, it's not altruistic. It's all to benefit him. I don't blame him but let's not pretend that he's doing this because he cares about users or the "right to repair" movement. He cares because he can mislabel and misconstrue the positions of the people against it to benefit his business. He'd love it if Apple was forced to provide him schematics and docs. He's in it for himself.
dogma1138 8y ago
My bet is that sensors don’t output absolute values and you need to use an offset to get the correct “reading” for your thermal profile and cooling. Basically based on the location and type of sensor(s) and your cooling solution you will apply an offset to get the actual temperature to be used for managing the power profile and cooling of the component. This is pretty common and the reason why many apps don’t readout the temperature of newly released components correctly. Ofc it can be something completely different and Apple is hiding the actual cause but I don’t deal with tinfoil fashion accessories.
- bredren 8y ago
  >Ofc it can be something completely different and Apple is hiding the actual cause but I don’t deal with tinfoil fashion accessories. Which is a shame because the theme this year is I, Robot.
mariopt 8y ago
I would bet my money on the Apple T2 SoC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple-designed_processors#Apple_T2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple-designed_processors#Appl...
skrause 8y ago
Probably the MSR_TURBO_POWER_LIMIT value as described in https://www.reddit.com/r/macbookpro/comments/91256u/optimal_cpu_tuning_settings_for_i9_mbp_to_stop/ https://www.reddit.com/r/macbookpro/comments/91256u/optimal_...
- aroman 8y ago
  That analysis is incredible, how was the OP able to figure all of that out!?
  - baybal2 8y ago
    Intel's HDK docs?
  - DavideNL 8y ago
    I don't know, but apparently (1): >> Originally posted at MacRumors by winterny >> https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/optimal-cpu-tuning-settings-for-i9-mbp-to-stop-vrm-throttling-explanation-of-apples-engineering-f.2128936/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/optimal-cpu-tuning-sett... 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17602455 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17602455
    - DuskStar 8y ago
      The Reddit post was about 20 minutes earlier.
  - old-gregg 8y ago
    I've experienced some early adopter pains with the desktop version of this CPU (x299 platform) when it came out and I used linux kernel mailing list to search for answers. I was surprised how easy it was to read the code of the related kernel modules and interact with their authors (Intel engineers). These "magic codes" are probably just #define macros somewhere in the kernel repo, in my case it was in [1] [1] https://github.com/torvalds/linux/tree/master/drivers/platform/x86 https://github.com/torvalds/linux/tree/master/drivers/platfo...
  - 8y ago

chrisper 8y ago

Yeah, and if this will make the Macbook run so hot it will bend, Apple needs to be sued first until they will start repairing this under "extended warranty." Looks like I forgot I am on HN - the Apple fanboy Club. Just look back how often Apple had to get sued first to get them to admit to an issue and to repair their own fuckup.

ceejayoz 8y ago
> Yeah, and if this will make the Macbook run so hot it will bend... That's a big "if". They're not removing the thermal controls, just making them work correctly.
- chrisper 8y ago
  Well, VW etc didn't remove emissions control either. They just changed them such that they work better in "benchmarks" at other costs. Now these laptops work better in benchmark, but at what costs? Longetivity of the laptop or battery? Keyboard melting away? Obviously it's not going to bend. That was a snarky comment. But you get my point.
  - ceejayoz 8y ago
    > But you get my point. I don't, really. They had a bug that caused the chips to throttle down way more than necessary. It's like VW having a car that won't go more than 20mph on a hot day because of some bad software - there's no reason that fixing the software will mean VW cars suddenly can't handle going normal 65mph speeds.
  - gknoy 8y ago
    It sound like the thermals might be fine, but the interpretation of the metrics were faulty, in such a way that it made the controllers panic and think they needed to throttle the CPU and run the fans hard.
  - 1123581321 8y ago
    I understand your point but disagree. This fix should provide higher performance at the same temperature. A new risk isn’t being introduced. It sounds counter-intuitive that software can improve hardware performance with no tradeoffs and I’m not sure how to best get past that other than running your own tests and reading others’.

Exuma 8y ago

Well that's quite nice

fhood 8y ago
If they are on the up and up and that really is the problem. I hope it is though. I was getting really depressed at the idea of switching to something else.

bwang29 8y ago

Thanks Apple, now back to keyboard and Touch Bar.

blacksmith_tb 8y ago
They did (quietly) roll out improvements[1] to the keyboard, though time will tell if they actually help enough... 1: https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/7/19/17590100/apple-macbook-pro-keyboard-membrane-dust-problem-fix-leaked https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/7/19/17590100/a...
- hajile 8y ago
  They need to improve the key travel. If I wanted to type on a flat board, I'd get a Yoga Book. https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/tablets/android-tablets/yoga-book-series/Lenovo-Yoga-Book/p/ZZITZTOYB1F https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/tablets/android-tablets/yoga-bo...
  - matthewmacleod 8y ago
    I for one am much happier with the newer keyboard and now the old one feels weirdly mushy and gross. I reckon keyboards are a matter of taste ultimately.
    - sigzero 8y ago
      Yes, I like the 2017 keyboard. I'm not ecstatic over it but definitely usable for me. I also like the touchbar. Maybe I'm just weird.
      - xvector 8y ago
        TouchBar is quite amazing once you know the gestures, too. Tapping and holding the volume/brightness key and sliding it for super-precise volume or brightness control is an amazing feature.
    - sumedh 8y ago

ovrdrv3 8y ago

Happy to see Dave2D at the forefront of this. He gives solid advice and puts out crispy 4K content on YouTube. Link to his channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVYamHliCI9rw1tHR1xbkfw https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVYamHliCI9rw1tHR1xbkfw

curiousgal 8y ago
I feel bad for the other famous YouTuber who published a video basically saying that everyone are overreacting.
- SteveNuts 8y ago
  For every internet action there's an equal and opposite overreaction.
  - davidkuhta 8y ago
    The 3rd Law of Emotion.
    - warrenm 8y ago
      The 3rd Law of Emoticon ftfy
- eudora 8y ago
  Wait who?
  - spacemonkey92 8y ago
    Jonathan Morrison (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-p9-QZSdPM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-p9-QZSdPM)

xucheng 8y ago

Possible details on what went wrong: https://www.reddit.com/r/macbookpro/comments/91256u/optimal_cpu_tuning_settings_for_i9_mbp_to_stop/ https://www.reddit.com/r/macbookpro/comments/91256u/optimal_... TL;DR The CPU is stuck in a cycle of switching between minimum clock frequency and turbo speed.

mikhailt 8y ago

Dave (the guy who Apple mentioned working with to find this issue) already tweeted that the performance is "soo much better". Source: https://twitter.com/Dave2Dtv/status/1021817313555755009 https://twitter.com/Dave2Dtv/status/1021817313555755009

njloof 8y ago
Has he tried setting it on his bare legs during the test?
- satysin 8y ago
  Why would anyone put a high end laptop on their legs while doing a prolonged intensive task such as video rendering??
  - bradenb 8y ago
    Isn't part of the definition of a laptop that it should be able to be used comfortably resting on the user's lap?
    - satysin 8y ago
      Well you can put it on your bare legs if you really want to and during general use doing so is fine but rendering video is going to make it get hot and very uncomfortable.
      - namibj 8y ago
        Place a W-series Thinpad on your bare legs on a warm summer day (think you can just still survive/think at all without A/C). You will want to get it away as you can't sweat well under it, and it's dumping some heat into your blood. That's it, despite some discomfort you won't mind it. And apparently the make them with more TDP than apple seems to be able to handle, but instead of an i9 they appear to jump directly to a Xeon. Those start at over $3500 in base configuration though....

sgillen 8y ago

I’m glad it was just a software bug. It still seems like Apple’s quality control has gone way done over the last few years. My hypothesis is that there has been a change in culture as the company gets bigger with less emphasis on rigorous testing of the code? It would be interesting to get some perspective from a longtime Apple employee on this.

alistairSH 8y ago
It still seems like Apple’s quality control has gone way done over the last few years. I doubt it. They've had problems for years... bulging batteries, bad solder, bendy iPhones, etc. But, is the quality really going down, or is Apple just an easy target? I tend to think it's more of the later. I've had Lenovos and Dells for work and they've not been perfect.
- sgillen 8y ago
  That’s a good point, for me it’s more that I perceive that the quality of Apple quality control used to be very high, and now it’s coming down to earth. It’s this shift that has people upset I think not the fact that Apple products have more issues than those of other vendors.
  - rsynnott 8y ago
    A friend had one of those white G3 iBooks. It got replaced about five times, and I think they eventually gave him a successor G4 one. Apple's never been perfect.
    - kalleboo 8y ago
      My mom had one too. They put the GPU right under the wristrest, so that you'd crack the solder just by typing. Eventually they added a plastic collar around it but that only moved the stress to the motherboard.
adpirz 8y ago
The alternative is this issue came up, and they had a trade off to make with heat + noise vs cooler + quieter, and out of the gate they bet on cooler and quieter; with the backlash, they’re realizing it was the wrong bet, and fixing a “bug.” I have to imagine that basic stress testing would have caught this somewhere.

IOT_Apprentice 8y ago

Apple used an inadequately cooled VRM that's incapable of sustaining the power required to run the CPU at full speed. See the link below. https://www.reddit.com/r/macbookpro/comments/91256u/optimal_cpu_tuning_settings_for_i9_mbp_to_stop/ https://www.reddit.com/r/macbookpro/comments/91256u/optimal_...

auggierose 8y ago

Other reason for thermal slowdown: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16689070 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16689070

jgh 8y ago

Does this impact all macbook pros with the touch bar, or just the 2018 models?

toasterlovin 8y ago
Only the recently released ones were affected.
- jgh 8y ago
  OK, thanks for the answer instead of the downvote :P

dep_b 8y ago

Nice, I was going to buy the lowest spec CPU version of the 2018 yes or yes so seeing that the thermal issues are getting improved just affirms my decision. I think the 2018 might be the new 2015. Apple MacBooks are like classic wines, some years are better than others, but you'll pay through the nose for every vintage anyway ;) My 2008 alu worked without a hitch for 10 years until a bad third party battery started to give problems together with the keyboard a month ago and I decided not to try to fix it anymore: that wasn't a bad investment.

joshstrange 8y ago
That's my hope as well, as soon as I saw the iFixit report on the silicone cones on the keys I pulled the trigger on the 15" i9 32GB RAM 1TB SSD and I love it. This throttling issue worried me a lot but after the fix I am seeing it not fall below clock [0]. I came from a late-2013 which was a great laptop (though I know the 2015 was the sweet spot, I was going to upgrade to that if the 2018 didn't address my top issues but it did so I went for the 2018). [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17603760 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17603760
- dep_b 8y ago
  That's sweet. I wasn't sure this fix would be able to tame the i9.

joshstrange 8y ago

This appears to be working as expected. Here is a graph [0] of the Intel Power Gadget while I ran Cinebench. They are not the same length because it took longer before the update and I cut out the parts before and after. Pretty striking difference IMHO and it never went below base clock after the update. I was worried about my i9 but I'm not anymore. Also if anyone is wondering it went from 780cb -> 860cb but I wouldn't put too much stock in that since I've got other apps open (same apps for both tests) and 3 external monitors attached. Some people report 1100cb score after the fix. [0] https://www.dropbox.com/s/y30x13mi6ozhg0k/10.16.3S-Fix.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/y30x13mi6ozhg0k/10.16.3S-Fix.png?d...

onewhonknocks 8y ago
Thank you for letting us know.
satysin 8y ago
Hmm my i7 8850H gets 1024cb[0] so I would expect your i9 to do better than 860cb even with some other stuff going on at the same time. https://i.imgur.com/o83CM33.png https://i.imgur.com/o83CM33.png
- joshstrange 8y ago
  I don’t doubt it can do better, I just have a bunch running in the background and this was right after startup (after applying the patch).
DennisAleynikov 8y ago
Glad to hear the fix works out for you. It's rare that apple will fix something like this so fast, but it's entirely possible this just slipped past QA since apple doesn't test throttling that thoroughly it seems.
- ams6110 8y ago
  Which is strange if they're not, because their sleek and slim designs would seem to allow a very minimal margin for error on heat dissipation. you would think that would be the subject of quite a bit of testing on the hardware side of things.

unknown_apostle 8y ago

Even with the fix, I'm afraid you're still shilling out a lot of money for top hardware that can't be used to its maximum extent. Because of the thin form factor limitations, insufficient thermal design and possibly even something as silly as not using the best thermal paste. And the system as a whole will still run quite hot for high CPU+GPU loads, so who knows how that affects the electronics and battery life longer term. Please, Apple, just make it 1mm thicker already.

ben010783 8y ago
People bought them knowing that they were making tradeoffs in performance, but the real problem was that the computers were not even hitting their advertised specs.
Razengan 8y ago
They're still very good when you consider everything across the board, including the battery life, ecosystem and support, and apparently the best in some areas like SSD performance: [0] https://www.macrumors.com/2018/07/13/2018-macbook-pro-fastest-laptop-ssd-ever/ https://www.macrumors.com/2018/07/13/2018-macbook-pro-fastes... [1] https://9to5mac.com/2016/11/01/2016-macbook-pro-ssd/ https://9to5mac.com/2016/11/01/2016-macbook-pro-ssd/

satysin 8y ago

Great to see Apple address this so quickly. The throttling issues didn't effect me and my workload (iOS and Android development) but it clearly caused bit issues for those doing video editing. I have installed the update and so far so good. I have only had this 2018 model for a little over a day but I am loving the keyboard changes and TrueTone display and performance for me is superb.

westoque 8y ago

Shouldn't there be performance testing for common tasks (rendering video) like what Dave2D did? For a company like Apple that has a lot of resources, wouldn't it make sense to have that department that does just that, performance testing on specific apps. The testers can just focus on Apple software for ex (iMovie, Final Cut) and they could have caught this "bug" earlier.

wodenokoto 8y ago
There is and they should. But bugs tend to find a way anyway.
- ajross 8y ago
  Yeah, but... let's be honest. This kind of integration flaw is a very... well, let's just say it's a very "Hewlett Packard" kind of bug, and the kind of thing we've come to not expect from "Apple Computer".
  - VeejayRampay 8y ago
    They're a small upcoming company, they're doing their best, let's cut them some slack.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

NightlyDev 8y ago

"could drive clock speeds down under heavy thermal loads" So now it just don't give a shit and fires away at the highest clock, without a care in the world about temperatures? The clock speed should go down under "heavy thermal load", that's not a bug...

haikuginger 8y ago
The CPU itself had plenty of thermal headroom, but was overdrawing the power system - which then thermally throttled itself way more aggressively and in a less-controlled manner. The update changes the curve to ensure that the CPU doesn't draw more power than the power system can handle for extended periods. The CPU will still downclock itself as needed if it experiences its own thermal overload.
- NightlyDev 8y ago
  Are you saying Intel CPUs now can adapt to power loss, instead of just not working? I doubt that very much. The CPU got too hot(easily reaching 100C) so there was definetly not "plenty of headroom", in fact, there was no headroom at all.
  - zaarn 8y ago
    It's not a powerloss but voltage goes down. Modern VRMs can also signal their power capabilies and reserves. If the CPU draws more current than the VRM can handle, this is usually okay within bounds for a very short time, after than you'll get dropping voltage when the VRM starts to self regulate and the CPU will downclock in response.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

flying_sheep 8y ago

I doubt if this patch will decrease the lifespan of MacBook. Because for silicon chips, 10 degree Celsius rise in operating temperature will roughly decrease life span by half. If Apple relax the temperature constraint by 20 degree Celsius (e.g. from 50 degree to 70 degree), it is expected that the lifespan of some component will decrease by 75%.

rasz 8y ago
Except macbooks almost never see 50, and rarely 70 degrees, its 80-100 all day when actually using cpu.
- flying_sheep 8y ago
  Oh my god. That number is unimaginable. Even if my full power desktop i7 can't reach this number. Chips will die very quickly in this temperature. I think Apple is having a real trouble.

crb002 8y ago

Is this really a software bug or are they now going to have heat related failures by voiding Intel's specs? Just running an already hot laptop hotter can't be good.

S_A_P 8y ago

I didn’t follow my own advice and I bought a new top spec i9 MacBook Pro. I’ve an iMac pro with a persistent issue that causes kernel panics. Apple is gathering information about the issue and I’ve had a few calls with an engineer. So far it isn’t fixed. When I got my i9 mbp I noticed the fan was quite active and it was fast, but not significantly better than my 2014 mbp quad core. I just updated with the fix this morning and so far I notice way less fan usage and it did seem to be a bit snappier. I will run some benchmarks later and see where it lands. If it isn’t working I’m about ready to abandon platform. Sucks because my entire music studio is Mac based.

heavymark 8y ago

It says the fix is for High Sierra. For everyone running Mojave on the new MBP, will there be a fix for that as well, or was it previously patched in Mojave already?

tgcordell 8y ago
As Mojave is in beta right now, I don't think Apple feels obligated to rush out a Supplemental update like they did for their production OS. Also not sure how they would have already patched in Mojave if they hadn't had it fixed in HS when the hardware was released. I expect the next Mojave beta release to resolve this, but don't expect the next release to come faster due to this bug.

code_duck 8y ago

I had a serious slowdown issue on my 2010 MacBook Pro that took me a few years to figure out. It started after I spilled tea on it. The system appeared to function normally, but was very slow. When I ran top as root, it showed that kernel process was always using one core (>100% out of 200). I tried reinstalling the OS, changing options and upgrading, to no avail. Apparently, the OS does this to prevent thermal damage. It perceives that the CPU is overheating, so it sends one core into an idle loop to prevent it from doing real work. Finally, I took it to an Apple repair shop whose diagnostics determined the CPU thermal sensor was not working. That didn’t immediately help. After much web searching, I found that a fix for this it was to completely disable the power management profile by deleting it. Now the machine works perfectly normally in terms of everything - heat, fans and performance. The machine seems to work identically to its original behavior, so I am puzzled at what function the power management profile performs.

exabrial 8y ago

Congrats to Apple for handling this correctly: not suing the guy. The bad news is this escaped your QA process. That never would have happened 10 years ago.

carlesfe 8y ago
> That never would have happened 10 years ago The Macbook Pro from 2008 literally had a thermal issue. It made some units not boot at all. And it required a logic board replace, not just a software fix. https://www.ifixit.com/Wiki/MacBook_Pro_15%22_Unibody_Troubleshooting#Section_Thermal_Sensor_Issues https://www.ifixit.com/Wiki/MacBook_Pro_15%22_Unibody_Troubl... "If the fans run at high RPMs, but the computer does not boot, there is probably an issue with the thermal sensors. Late 2008/Early 2009 models feature a thermal sensor on the heat sink. First, ensure that the thermal sensor on the heat sink is plugged into the logic board. If it is, try replacing the heat sink. If this does not fix the problem, the logic board most likely needs to be replaced."
sologoub 8y ago
Yeah, 10 years ago we were just frying mainboards with the NVIDIA chips and insufficient cooling: https://www.google.com/amp/s/gizmodo.com/5061605/apple-confirms-failing-nvidia-graphics-cards-in-macbook-pros-offers-free-repairs-and-refunds/amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/gizmodo.com/5061605/apple-confi...

dharma1 8y ago

works ok for me after the update. Cinebench 1020 and CPU clock speed stays at 3ghz under load. Ran it several times and it's the same each time. 99fps for the GPU in cb opengl test, though that drops a couple of fps each time you run the test. Temps still high, up to 95% during cb but I guess that's expected with this type of laptop body under extreme load and can be somewhat mitigated with external fans. I was going to return this but will keep it now.

rasz 8y ago
so still slower than older 2.6GHz i7