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Where the Super-Rich Go to Buy Their Second Passport
- joncrane 8y agoAre there any additional benefits other than the collector value? Can you keep your money in Antigua and Barbuda or Vanuatu to avoid enough taxes that the deal becomes a net positive? Are the banks there reliable enough that the risk is low and you can be confident it's going to work out?
- creaghpatr 8y agoI suppose if you are 'super' rich, at a certain wealth point it makes sense to, er, diversify your citizenship portfolio. It might also help avoid extradition, if they're into that.Edit: IANAL
- tomaha 8y agoNo capital gains is what does it for you because it means the money you earn in your sleep is tax free (at least if you are not a US citizen). There is no need to use the banks or brokers in the country you're citizen of. It's important where you live officially and with a citizenship it's easier to claim residence.
- simias 8y agoFor EU countries the benefits are obvious, you can then live and work anywhere within the union. For the other smaller and more isolated countries I'm not so sure how it works out.
- pimmen 8y agoWell, you could always hide there if you're charged with a crime, right? Even if it's white collar. Suddenly, that country is asked to extradite one of their own nationals rather than someone with a visa (and if they renew that visa when you're wanted it looks pretty bad diplomatically).
- vegardx 8y agoHaving an Austrian, Maltese or Cypriot passport lets you freely move, work and reside in any EU/EEA country.
- joncrane 8y agoAha. This is a good one.
- loblollyboy 8y agoI really don’t get why Turkey is on this list tho
- pilsetnieks 8y agoBecause it is one of the countries where you can get a passport for money. That's what the article is about.
- pilsetnieks 8y agoTravelling would be the first one that comes to mind. If you're from a country low on visa restriction index (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travel_visa#Visa_restrictions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travel_visa#Visa_restrictions) a passport like this could ease your travels significantly.
- suhastech 8y agoOnce you are a high net worth individual, I don't think getting visas would be difficult. My best bet is still to get tax break.
- pilsetnieks 8y agoThere's still much less hassle, and time necessary.
- gnode 8y agoYour link is broken by a trailing comma.
- pilsetnieks 8y agoFixed, thanks.
- trash_panda 8y agoI wouldn't be surprised if lots of them didn't actually use their real name. I know it's illegal but with a few millions nobody will care.
- ryanmercer 8y agoVisa-free travel. Germany has visa-free travel to 176 countries, Sweden 175, many other countries still give you access to more than 170. Yes, a US Passport gets you visa free to 174 but that could change at the drop of a hat with the wrong invasion or military strike. If you're American and America does something the world sees as shitty, you're suddenly restricted where you can travel and may in fact not want to be travelling on an American passport for very real threat of harassment.
- cascom 8y agoPolitical instability in their home country/lack of rule of law - basically an escape plan. The tax issue doesn’t really apply as residence (rather than citizenship) is the determining factor for the vast majority of people (but not Americans)
- geomark 8y agoThe IRS can now revoke your passport if they feel you owe more than $50k in back taxes. One could think of a number of reasons that could be quite bad for you. Like if you need to travel for business and suddenly cannot until you wade through the bureaucratic mess to settle the issue. Or you are an expat living overseas and suddenly cannot renew your visa because your passport has been cancelled, and for the same reason you also cannot travel, so end up in some sort of weird limbo. A second passport could come in very handy in those situations.
- tdumitrescu 8y agoI was saved unexpectedly by my second passport a few months ago when taking a trip from the US to Europe. My US passport was valid for another couple months, but at checkin they told me I couldn't use it for an international trip because it needed to be valid for at least the next 90 days from date of travel. Luckily I was able to whip out another passport for them, but I'm sure otherwise I would have been stuck trying to get a rush passport and rebook flights.
- ggm 8y agoOdd that neither Australia nor NZ figure on the list since both do this (passport for cash, ie citizenship pathways for entrepreneurs) and both are heavily used (China) and both are occasionally pointed to (Peter Thiel?)
- jacobush 8y agoMaybe they don't want to advertise their favourite suppliers? :)
- tryonqc 8y agoCanada also have the "investor program (not passport, thanks robteix)". (grants permanent residency visa) It requires you to be accepted through an application (no criminal / health problems) and to 800k loan interest-free to the government for 5 years. You also need business experience and at least 1,6m$ in legally-acquired assets. Maybe Australia also have other criteria ? I think countries on that list don't ask many questions... Pretty bad "article" overall. It could've offered so much more information :(
- robteix 8y agoCanada does not have an "investor passport." And AFAIK, neither do Australia nor NZ. They offer _residency_ visas, not citizenship. Once you are a permanent resident, you can apply for citizenship once you fulfill the residency requirements (3 years over the last 5 in the case of Canada), but the article is about countries that offer citizenship _outright_.
- projectramo 8y agoBut OP is right in pointing out that Canada's residency visa does allow you to eventually apply for citizenship. There are some countries where a residency visa does not allow one to do so no matter how long you spend in the country.
- tryonqc 8y ago
- Alex3917 8y agoOr just repatriate to wherever your (or your spouse’s) great grandparents came from for free.
- eli 8y agoI think very few countries offer such a program
- jgh 8y agoThat doesn't always work. Some places only care about parents or grandparents, others (like USA) require the person spend a number of contiguous years in the country in order to sponsor family. I have a grandparent who was born in the USA but never lived there long enough to sponsor family.
- Alex3917 8y agoIn most places you would need your parents to file their paperwork first, based on their parents or grandparents. I’m trying to get my mother-in-law to repatriate her German citizenship right now so we can do it.
- ryanmercer 8y agoYou can do that, if you are in that position. I wouldn't be, we've been in the U.S. since the early 1700's on both sides of my family. That process also moves like a snail compared to citizenship by investment.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- simias 8y agoThat might be common for Americans but in Europe for a great chunk of the population the grand parents come from the same country or a neighboring one. I don't know how far back I'd have to go in my family tree before I encounter an "interesting" nationality but it's definitely more than three generations.
- justaguyhere 8y agoTurkey? Wondering why would someone want a Turkish passport, especially now?
- wardrobe 8y agoWishful thinking?
- cjrp 8y agoPotentially a future EU member?
- gambiting 8y agoHa. In like 20-30 years, assuming that the entire political course of the country does a 180 degree spin and stays on it. It would be faster, cheaper, and easier, to just live in any EU country for 5 years and get the passport that way.
- dzjkb 8y agoDon't see that happening anytime soon, with how things are going right now.
- vegardx 8y agoIf you do a lot of business in Turkey you might want to make sure that you don't have to wait for a lengthy visa process, or any other diplomatic issues that might come. Being able to travel into a country as a citizen has a lot of benefits, and rights.
- paradite 8y agoDon't start a nationalistic flame war please.
- mrighele 8y agoNot all rich people live in Europe or the US. If you live in Middle East or an African country, being able to move without hassle to a safer country in case of social unrest (just think about Turkey's neighbors: Syria, Iraq, Iran...) may be of great value. Plus at least until recently Turkeys economy was growing steadily so it was an interesting place for doing business.
- poisonarena 8y agoYou could also just pay someone WAYYYYY less than 100k to marry you for citizenship no?
- tyrex2017 8y agoit is illegal. saving a mil is not worth the risk to someone who has 500 of them
- boruto 8y agoand probably go to jail for fraud.
- pugio 8y agoNot so easy. As a new spouse living in my wife's country, getting citizenship – or even a permanent spouse visa – is a long, tedious, and relatively stressful process.
- stormbrew 8y agoI've seen people go through this process (without money involved, to be clear, they were genuinely trying to live together) in both Canada and the US and it's nowhere near as simple or guaranteed as people think. Maybe it is in some countries, but I'd expect many 'desirable' countries are actively trying to filter out people who marry specifically for citizenship.
- dudul 8y agoHaving gone through this process in the US myself, I won't dispute the "not simple" part, but how is it not guaranteed? As long as the marriage is done in good faith why would the permanent residency - and then citizenship - be denied? There is no CAP for "green cards through marriage" so no waiting list, and the residency period to transition to citizenship is shorter (3 years) than the standard (5 years I believe).
- stormbrew 8y agoYour question has the answer in it: because it can be denied on grounds of not being in good faith. GP post was talking about literally paying someone for marriage to obtain citizenship, literally the opposite of a good faith marriage in terms of this process. People think it's a rubber stamp, but from what I've seen it's an invasive process where they poke around all sorts of aspects of your personal life to ascertain how 'good faith' your marriage is.
- vortico 8y agoSo I'll ask the obvious question: Why does Austria ask for $24M for citizenship instead of just denying it?
- TomMarius 8y agoWhy would you waste an opportunity to gain $24M? What would be the point of denying it?
- vortico 8y agoI don't know, but the other 200+ countries seem to have that answer.
- TomMarius 8y agoDo they? Can you cite? AFAIK they just don't offer it.
- Cthulhu_ 8y agoA country is NOT a business, and there's international treaties and whatnot to consider - what if a terrorist were to buy their way into an Austrian citizenship? What if a wanted US criminal escapes to Austria and hides behind their Austrian citizenship? There's more factors here than just money.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- TomMarius 8y agoYes, exactly, there are many things to consider and I never even suggested that money is the only factor - but you will definitely gain nothing (and not just money, the individual might e.g. start a business in your country) if you straight-up refuse. I have no idea how any of it relates to the legal status of the government, if that's what you mean by business; governments definitely do operate for profit (and again, not just monetary).
- pimmen 8y agoAmong the people with the motivation to get a safe haven and the money to spend on it would be drug king pins and wealthy ISIL funders. I hope they at least perform lengthy background checks on these people.
- Fjolsvith 8y agoMost of the drug king pins with records are serving time. Background checks on the ones without a record are not effective.
- TomMarius 8y agoYou can background check more than just the official records.
- pimmen 8y agoThese governments could also maybe ask where the money to buy the passport comes from. Then you could check if those investments have any ties to known drug traffickers. That should certainly raise some red flags at least. Same thing with ISIL funders, ask the person to explain where the wealth comes from and require that the business has to have been audited by the local authorities. It's not perfect, but then at least someone might look into suspicious transactions to known terrorists.
- drdeadringer 8y agoAbout 5 years ago I took vacation at St Kitts // Nevis and, somehow, locally learned about the "invest for citizenship" exchange deal they had. Somehow again I was surprised to find them on this list, but this time with a numerical dollar value and how long it's been in action. The romantic side of me has considered it once or twice had I the disposable liquid cash for it.
- privateprofile 8y ago"Exchange deal" seems like a euphemism for what's going on there: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/jul/12/nevis-how-the-worlds-most-secretive-offshore-haven-refuses-to-clean-up https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/jul/12/nevis-how-the-w...
- nutjob2 8y agoThe best things in life are free, I'm working on my fourth, with no money down. There are always fees though. There are surprising ways to get residency and citizenship from all sorts of countries, usually with a commitment of a bit over 5 years.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- dudul 8y agoCan you share a little bit more? What passports are you talking about? And also, do you have a specific reason motivating this project?
- nutjob2 8y agoI'm not going to list them for privacy reasons, but they include US and EU, which in my mind are the most powerful for entrepreneurs, especially as a combination. But you do need some luck and other features. A degree helps a lot, although I don't have one. I got the US one via the green card lottery, and although that might seem like crazy luck, if you live in certain countries your odds are surprisingly high. I calculated mine where 1 in 10. You just keep on applying. The EU has pretty amazing visas available if you look carefully (being proficient at the language that Google Translate claims is English is helpful). For instance you can live in several EU countries just by being self-employed. You can then use that to get citizenship over time and live almost anywhere in Europe and even in some Caribbean countries. Places like Australia (although they're tightening this up) allow you to move there if you're young, English speaking and have the right job or degree (for instance, if you can cook!). Once you're in often there is no requirement to actually work, so you can work on your own project while you pass 4 years to claim citizenship. Then you leave. But you might not want to. Motivations? Besides flexibility for business purposes and low cost or free high quality health care, I'd say this: the world is becoming a more dangerous place, and being able to escape somewhere safe is comforting.
- dudul 8y ago
- tabs_masterrace 8y agoThe concept of citizenship and passports always seemed so archaic to me. I never signed a contract with anybody, yet the place I was born in ultimately decides the boundaries of the space I'm allowed to live in. Thankfully there is a lot of freedom of movement if you're lucky enough to have a "good" passport, but recently we've seen the trend reverse a bit due to the refugee-scare. Hopefully one day everything will be open for anybody. But just hypothetically, if I want to grab a bike, ride to some isolated forest in France, build a cabin and live the hermit life, I can not to that. I'd be forcefully removed and placed back into my designated space. And force really is the only thing that gives basis to the claim of land. Seems kinda weird. Animals don't care and just move where ever they want to.
- amelius 8y agoNot sure, but perhaps if you think this through, you'll come to the conclusion that in order to get what you want, you'd have to get rid of the entire concept of "countries". Also, where would you pay taxes?
- hrktb 8y agoI would interpret parent’s “open” as “non depending on birth”. As in people can freely apply to live anywhere with readonable amount of bureaucracy. I think we have that but in one direction only: if a highly educated resident of a wealthy country wants to move somewhere else it will usually be easy. The farther we move from that spot, the harder it goes: it might require ungodly amounts of administrative work, enough bribing money, or demonstrably unique skills. I agree with you that it brings up a lot of things to consider.
- dudul 8y agoWouldn't a completely border-less world rely even more on "force" as primary mean to assert claim on land? If anybody could take their bike to get to your cabin, wouldn't you be even more at risk of being removed "manu-militari"?
- whatshisface 8y ago>Animals don't care and just move where ever they want to. A very very high fraction of animals are territorial and will fight to the death over land claims. You can see this in your back yard if you have squirrels or bird nests. >But just hypothetically, if I want to grab a bike, ride to some isolated forest in France, build a cabin and live the hermit life, I can not to that. This is actually a result of fairness on the part of the French government - you are a "nice person" and presumably would not ruin the environment for anybody else if you did that, but if it were legal to show up and make houses in French forests it would only be a matter of time before unscrupulous individuals began to show up and clear-cut the forest, overtaxing it and turning it into an unregulated slum city. Indeed if everyone were nice there would be no need for laws or governments at all.
- cletus 8y agoSo I'm going to rant about taxes because this is what the underlying issue is: the ultra-wealthy increasingly not contributing to the societies that made their wealth possible and continue to make it possible. I'm reminded of the talk about the tax cuts passed last year. One of the reasons given for cutting the corporate tax rate is double taxation (paying corporate taxes then taxes on dividends). Australia has had a system for years that solves this problem. The concept is dividend franking. What this means is that if a company pays 30% corporate taxes on $1 and then passes you the remaining $0.70 as a dividend, you're actually getting two things: - Income of $1 - Credit for $0.30 tax paid If you're an offshore investor that tax credit gains you nothing. You don't need to file a tax return. You've paid $0.30 in taxes. If you're resident then if your marginal rate of tax is lower than 30% you'll get a refund on the difference. If it's 30%, no difference. If it's more than 30% you'll pay a little more. If the US/EU adopted such a system and also applied it in some form to capital gains a lot of these problems would simply go away. By this I mean that some form of withholding taxes are retained from capital gains that you get credit for in your taxes. This is a little trickier than dividends because you have to work out a cost basis but this is a solvable problem. Then you combine that with: - Revenue apportionment of profit. If you earn x% of your revenue in country A then country A taxes x% of your profit; and - Loans taken out in country A for $x when an entity has untaxed profits in country B is the same as repatriating $x. Then you have a much improved situation (IMHO). It also means things like buying citizenship, at least for tax purposes, largely goes away so who cares? Also, other than outright citizenship there are a number of so-called golden visa programs that give you a path to citizenship but are often much cheaper.
- cascom 8y agoActually there is not much of tax benefit to being a citizen most places (vs resident) - meaning you can accomplish most tax avoidance without actually becoming a citizen
- Bedon292 8y agoWent down a rabbit hole on this one, and though this was an interesting related chart: https://www.henleypassportindex.com/passport-index https://www.henleypassportindex.com/passport-index It shows which countries have the best passports as far as access goes. Edit: Add some data from these countries Countries from the Article: -Austria 186 -Cyprus 171 -Malta 182 -Turkey 111 -Vanuatu 129 -Grenada 141 -St. Kitts and Nevis 151 -Saint Lucia 142 -Dominica 136 -Antigua and Barbuda 149 For reference: -United Kingdom 186 -United States of America 186 There does not appear to be a correlation between access and price. Though the most access is the most expensive.
- classichasclass 8y agoWhat would be particularly interesting is intersections for folks who actually do buy multiple passports. If I had a US passport plus a Maltese passport, does that score some higher number of access by allowing you to use the right passport at the right border, or is it still 186? I hold dual citizenship and I move a lot more easily through many borders than my single citizenship wife does by picking the appropriate passport for that particular entry. No, I didn't buy it.
- dustinchilson 8y agoUsing their tool (https://www.henleypassportindex.com/compare-passport https://www.henleypassportindex.com/compare-passport) it looks like if you have a US Passport and add a Malta/Austria Passport you add Brazil, Venezuela, and Iran to your visa free travel. Cuba if you add Antigua and Barbuda So it'd be 189.
- k__ 8y agoSo this is only interesting for people who are from somewhere that is low on this list?
- projectramo 8y agoNo. This is fascinating for me and I am high on the list. I was wondering about what access it buys you. This is sort of why it is being purchased.
- champagnepapi 8y ago"I got 5 passports, I'm never going to jail" ~Jay-Z
- selimthegrim 8y agoThe other day I logged into Bank of America (where I used to have a checking account but now just keep a couple of credit cards) for the first time in several months and a popup comes up asking if I have dual nationality. Really guys? KYC is getting a little out of hand here....
- lisper 8y agoI noticed that too. I thought it was an ominous development.
- selimthegrim 8y agoI happen to have dual nationality with Pakistan (a situation I chose a few years back and not without some regrets now), so I answered accordingly. But what on earth is BoA acting as a front for ICE now for I can't imagine.
- lisper 8y agoWell, here are two clues: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/citizenship-shouldnt-be-a-birthright/2018/07/18/7d0e2998-8912-11e8-85ae-511bc1146b0b_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/citizenship-shouldnt... https://www.npr.org/2018/07/04/625980910/white-house-launches-effort-to-take-citizenship-from-those-who-lied-to-get-it https://www.npr.org/2018/07/04/625980910/white-house-launche... I think the Trump administration is quietly launching a strategy to strip a large number of people of their citizenship.
- selimthegrim 8y agoI was incontrovertibly born here, so they can throw at me what they like. But my mother, like many people born in South Asia, finds it hard to obtain official birth documentation. When she naturalized she had to have her mother swear in an affidavit as to her birthplace and birthdate.
- 8y ago
- projectramo 8y agoRelated studies I would like to see: 1. Which passport gets you access to the most high paying jobs 2. Which passport has the best low cost education 3. Which passport has the best low-cost healthcare 4. Which passport gives you access to cities with dense experiences (I'll let HN assist me with rounding out what that means)
- cududa 8y agoNot really related. If you’re paying the prices listed in the article none of those listed are of consequence
- projectramo 8y agoYou're looking at the top of the list, and I'm looking at the bottom.