8 ms·

Have a feeling this will end up extorting American expats and people who grew up abroad without ever living or working in the US (who are only US citizens becau

Have a feeling this will end up extorting American expats and people who grew up abroad without ever living or working in the US (who are only US citizens because of their parents). When FATCA was passed, it flipped a switch that automatically made tens of thousands of people around the world who have never set foot in the US into criminals by default since they'd never filed US taxes (the US has the only global taxation system in the world). It sounds like those people who haven't spent the ridiculous sums of money on accounts/lawyers/etc needed to become compliant during the grace period will likely now have the threat of their passport being revoked held over their head. I'm sure we'll see the already record-high numbers of people renouncing their US citizenship accelerate. BTW, the US also has the highest fee to renounce citizenship in the entire world, it costs $2,350 to not be a US citizen. The absurdity of it all would be funny if it weren't so cruel.

Spooky23 8y ago
Pretty sure that if you are deemed to have owed taxes, that must be settled before you can renounce.
- deleted 8y ago
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duxup 8y ago
I wonder how likely it is people would renounce their citizenship.... that US passport / citizenship is pretty powerful.
- abecedarius 8y ago
  FATCA seems like a great incentive.
- nradov 8y ago
  During the past few years under 10,000 US citizens have renounced their citizenship per year. So basically negligible as a percentage of the population.
  - duxup 8y ago
    Yeah it gets a lot of attention but the numbers are crazy small, but on the internet there's a lot of talk about it, all the time.
  - ohhellno 8y ago
    You should compare that number to how many renounced before FACTA passed and you will see it is not trivial. It is the main reason people renounce now.
  - pembrook 8y ago
    The point is not that the absolute number is high or that it has any net effect on the number of American citizens. The point is that the number sky rocketed from basically nobody to thousands of people because FATCA is such a draconian, terrible law. In absolute terms, only about 3.5% of Americans even travel abroad each year let alone live abroad. We could put a wall around the entire country and refuse to let anybody leave and a majority of Americans would not care. A majority of American citizens don't even have passports in the first place. The small minority of people who live and travel abroad perform a very important function for US industry and international relations. Making life more difficult for them for no good reason is bad for our economy.
    - duxup 8y ago
      "skyrocketed" relative to thousands really still seems very small....and we don't know what each reason is.
  - jsoc815 8y ago
    While the numbers provided are not in the millions, it's important to understand that the oft-cited numbers are also (thought) to be incomplete. Here is one example.[1] But I see the claim fairly regularly. Also, the discussions often focus on people who renounce their U.S. citizenship, but I rarely, if ever, see any on people who relinquish. And while the result with respect to U.S. citizenship may end up being the same for both processes, I understand that the treatment of the former citizen is often different based on the option selected. Lastly, while the numbers may be small, we don't know the value of the wealth that they are taking with them. Could be little or a lot. And while yes, there are exit taxes, people with enough to lose will expend some energy to not do so. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2017/06/12/more-americans-renounce-citizenship-new-list-released/#a30b8f56fe95 https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2017/06/12/more-amer...
- charlesdm 8y ago
  Nothing any EU passport couldn't solve (with the added bonus of not having to pay taxes on your global income to the US government)
  - masonic 8y ago
    EU passports aren't just handed out to Western hemisphere folk, either, without certain specific ties (e.g. Ireland will give citizenship if one has an Irish citizen parent).
    - charlesdm 8y ago
      Most countries will give you one after living in the country for X years and taking some basic tests, or through investment.
macleginn 8y ago
> [T]he US has the only global taxation system in the world Not exactly, Eritrea is another case.
- pembrook 8y ago
  Sorry, you're correct. Eritrea is the only other case. Except Eritrea doesn't have a stranglehold on the global banking system like the US so it's basically a non-issue for Eritreans.
adventured 8y ago
> I'm sure we'll see the already record-high numbers of people renouncing their US citizenship accelerate. That sounds like a big deal, until you see how trivial the number is: 6,000 to 7,000 people per year, or 0.003% of US adults. The US hands out about one million green cards per year. There are typically five million or more green card applications pending in a given year. 150x more immigrants become citizens every year, versus the number of people that renounce their US citizenship. The US could triple that number any time it wanted to.
- deleted 8y ago
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Spooky23 8y ago

Pretty sure that if you are deemed to have owed taxes, that must be settled before you can renounce.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

duxup 8y ago

I wonder how likely it is people would renounce their citizenship.... that US passport / citizenship is pretty powerful.

abecedarius 8y ago
FATCA seems like a great incentive.
nradov 8y ago
During the past few years under 10,000 US citizens have renounced their citizenship per year. So basically negligible as a percentage of the population.
- duxup 8y ago
  Yeah it gets a lot of attention but the numbers are crazy small, but on the internet there's a lot of talk about it, all the time.
- ohhellno 8y ago
  You should compare that number to how many renounced before FACTA passed and you will see it is not trivial. It is the main reason people renounce now.
- pembrook 8y ago
  The point is not that the absolute number is high or that it has any net effect on the number of American citizens. The point is that the number sky rocketed from basically nobody to thousands of people because FATCA is such a draconian, terrible law. In absolute terms, only about 3.5% of Americans even travel abroad each year let alone live abroad. We could put a wall around the entire country and refuse to let anybody leave and a majority of Americans would not care. A majority of American citizens don't even have passports in the first place. The small minority of people who live and travel abroad perform a very important function for US industry and international relations. Making life more difficult for them for no good reason is bad for our economy.
  - duxup 8y ago
    "skyrocketed" relative to thousands really still seems very small....and we don't know what each reason is.
- jsoc815 8y ago
  While the numbers provided are not in the millions, it's important to understand that the oft-cited numbers are also (thought) to be incomplete. Here is one example.[1] But I see the claim fairly regularly. Also, the discussions often focus on people who renounce their U.S. citizenship, but I rarely, if ever, see any on people who relinquish. And while the result with respect to U.S. citizenship may end up being the same for both processes, I understand that the treatment of the former citizen is often different based on the option selected. Lastly, while the numbers may be small, we don't know the value of the wealth that they are taking with them. Could be little or a lot. And while yes, there are exit taxes, people with enough to lose will expend some energy to not do so. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2017/06/12/more-americans-renounce-citizenship-new-list-released/#a30b8f56fe95 https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2017/06/12/more-amer...
charlesdm 8y ago
Nothing any EU passport couldn't solve (with the added bonus of not having to pay taxes on your global income to the US government)
- masonic 8y ago
  EU passports aren't just handed out to Western hemisphere folk, either, without certain specific ties (e.g. Ireland will give citizenship if one has an Irish citizen parent).
  - charlesdm 8y ago
    Most countries will give you one after living in the country for X years and taking some basic tests, or through investment.

macleginn 8y ago

> [T]he US has the only global taxation system in the world Not exactly, Eritrea is another case.

pembrook 8y ago
Sorry, you're correct. Eritrea is the only other case. Except Eritrea doesn't have a stranglehold on the global banking system like the US so it's basically a non-issue for Eritreans.

adventured 8y ago

> I'm sure we'll see the already record-high numbers of people renouncing their US citizenship accelerate. That sounds like a big deal, until you see how trivial the number is: 6,000 to 7,000 people per year, or 0.003% of US adults. The US hands out about one million green cards per year. There are typically five million or more green card applications pending in a given year. 150x more immigrants become citizens every year, versus the number of people that renounce their US citizenship. The US could triple that number any time it wanted to.

deleted 8y ago
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