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California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

• maxxxxx 8y ago
  Very good! Businesses always say they focus on the customer but part of that is also to allow the customer to get rid of them. I still remember the impossibility of cancelling AOL. I had to do chargebacks on my amex for a few months until they got the message.
• gsich 8y ago
  You subscribe online - you can cancel online. Now replace "online" with any other way you can make a contract.
• qaq 8y ago
  Comcast and Verizon will be upset
  • ocdtrekkie 8y ago
    I cancelled my Comcast service online. I DM'd @comcastcares on Twitter and they gave me no trouble whatsoever. I never spoke to a customer retention specialist or whatever they call those people these days.
    • lallysingh 8y ago
      I used their web-based chat and had a surprisingly easy time.
      • Johnny555 8y ago
        I had no problem with the web-based chat either, though when he asked about setting up service at my new address, I said I was moving out of the country. But still, I'd prefer to use a simple web form to cancel service rather than sit through a 15 minute chat session
        • ocdtrekkie 8y ago
          As above: Use Twitter. It isn't session-based, so you can come and go from the conversation as you please, and it certainly didn't take me 15 minutes. :) In my case, I was considering an alternative provider, I tweeted them to ask if they could match a competing offer, they made a different offer that wasn't good enough to keep me. I checked in another time with them on Twitter to confirm my contract was not in effect, which they confirmed. And then after my new service was installed, I informed them that their service had already been physically disconnected, and to please close out the account. None of this came with muss or fuss, and I just hit up their DMs whenever it was convenient for me.
  • ergothus 8y ago
    Cancelling comcast is only moderately hard. Getting them to ACTUALLY cancel can require more than a single phone call.
    • greggarious 8y ago
      The key is to do it in person. Show up at an office, return the modem, receive a receipt, and report any future charges as fraud to your CC provider w/ the cancellation and equipment return receipts as proof.
    • reaperducer 8y ago
      I cancelled in person, and that didn't even help. I got calls from Comcast for weeks afterward telling me that I needed to return my equipment. I kept telling them that I did return the equipment and have a receipt. The only thing that made them stop calling is when I described the receipt to the person on the phone as having "that big stupid NBC peacock logo that you stole on the top of it." I guess without the logo description, none of the other callers would believe me.
• fjsolwmv 8y ago
  Businesses will likely comply to presert access to California customer business. They will build web frontends for proper account management (cancellation). And they will go out of their way to disable those frontends for non-CA customers, because they crave the money they are stealing.
  • jjoonathan 8y ago
    Even so, outside CA the law will go a long way towards removing plausible deniability, and that's something.
• gwbas1c 8y ago
  I can't begin to describe the number of companies that set me up for auto-renewal without any form of billing or invoice.
• thecosas 8y ago
  Does this apply to B2C only or also B2B?
  • briandear 8y ago
    It doesn't matter. Though, to be fair, most B2B sales aren't actually completed online. For example, if you deal with Salesforce, you complete the sale in an offline process. This law states that an online purchase should have an online cancellation. It doesn't apply to "tech" -- it applies to the sales process. So a guy selling you insurance over the phone -- they aren't required to allow online cancellation. However, if you purchased the product/subscription online, then you should be allowed to cancel online. Basically, the venue of the sale needs to be equivalent to the venue of the cancellation.
• danso 8y ago
  I recently had to cancel an ongoing subscription I had with Equifax, which requires you to call by phone. Unbelievably frustrating. I had to dial the service at least 10 times. Each time, the automated responder would make me go through a very slow menu selection process, only to randomly fail to acknowledge either my correct SSN or zipcode or street number, which I entered using a keypad. As a consumer, I've had to enter info via phone keypad for as long as I can remember, and I've never run into a system (not even small local businesses) that was so randomly buggy. I thought maybe I had the wrong phone number for cancellation. Turns out, when you google "cancel Equifax phone number", there are several phone numbers listed by Equifax itself, on various sections of its "help" pages. Took me about half an hour to finally reach a human operator. Surprisingly, the cancellation process was quick with her with no haggling. But I imagine the process is so frustrating overall that a good number of people just give up.
  • jjoonathan 8y ago
    We really need some kind of consumer protection against IVR gauntlets.
    • lallysingh 8y ago
      Certified mail letter saying that you want to cancel?
      • jjoonathan 8y ago
        There's a thought. The evil of IVRs goes far beyond cancellations, though. Warranties, insurance claims, anything where the company "wins by default" admits labyrinthine IVRs as a dark pattern, and some of those are "interactive" enough that certified mail winds up introducing as much friction as the IVR itself.
        • User23 8y ago
          The really evil ones hang up on you after you've been on hold for a fixed period of time.
• hermitdev 8y ago
  While I like the spirit of this law (rare for me with CA laws), I expect it to be ruled unconstitutional as attempting to regulate interstate commerce, whose so jurisdiction is under US Congress.
  • gshulegaard 8y ago
    Not sure it would hold up in the Supreme Court. Provided the law is worded strictly to apply to CA citizens / only when corporations are serving CA citizens there is little to make an interstate regulation argument on. And there is also international precedence (EU GDPR) which could guide court opinion. Maybe it's just wishful thinking but that's my $0.02.
    • greglindahl 8y ago
      It may well even be limited to businesses that have a presence in California; there are tons of precedents for crafting this kind of law to survive an interstate commerce challenge, even when the Internet is involved.
    • briandear 8y ago
      GDPR isn't a relevant precedent as there isn't a precedent -- GDPR hasn't been challenged in court, not the least, a US court. GDPR also has no relevance for US interstate commerce. South Dakota vs. Wayfair overturned the Quill decision, and, the Quill decision would have been the controlling precedent in any constitutional challenge, based on physical nexus. However, that all changed with Wayfair. One of the key arguments in the overturn of Quill were that Quill created, rather than resolved market distortions. Essentially, Quill (according to the ruling in SD v Wayfair,) created a tax shelter for businesses that limit their physical presence in a state. The problem with Quill is that it disadvantaged economically identical actors for arbitrary reasons -- a small shop with a few items in a warehouse in a state would have to pay taxes on everything they sold in the state, while a large business (such as Wayfair) with no physical presence in the state would be advantaged by not having to charge a tax on the exact same items. Helping customers evade a lawful tax unfairly shifts an increased share of the taxes to those consumers who buy from competitors with a physical presence in the State. "Quill’s physical presence rule has limited States’ ability to seek long-term prosperity and has prevented market participants from competing on an even playing field." So now, we look at the California law requiring online cancellations. It would be an extremely difficult argument to cite SD vs. Wayfair since the online cancellation requirement isn't creating a disadvantage on market participants or the states themselves. Lost economic development due to the imbalance created by Quill was cited repeatedly as a flaw in Quill. An online cancellation requirement is going to be very difficult to prove as having a deleterious effect on economic activity/growth/development as was clearly demonstrated in the majority opinion for Wayfair. Wayfair was essentially about tax shelters. The California law doesn't correct any particular economic harm. However, that being said, any constitutional challenge to the California Law would likely fall short because the Supreme Court interpretation of the Commerce Clause essentially says that laws ought not present an "undue burden" on interstate trade. Allowing for online cancellation, would be, to say the least, a stretch to argue that it places an undue burden on doing business with people within the state. That's why, if this law were to go to court, it would be upheld since someone like the New York Times would have a hard time proving an "undue burden." Ironically (to me,) being required to collect sales tax in all 50 states as well as the thousands of individual jurisdictions (including multiple jurisdictions even within cities, thanks to economic reinvestment zones) -- that to me, seems like a massively undue burden. However, as the court rules in Wayfair, that burden is less important than the economic discrimination that was happening (i.e. a local online shop vs. an out of state online shop being burdened unequally despite selling the exact same product.) As an aside, I might argue that a business without a physical presence in the state isn't availing themselves to the infrastructure or public services of that state, however they are being asked to pay for those infrastructure and services. Shipping companies actually do the deliveries and they, of course, are paying the taxes for their locality. But that's another debate. Incidentally, justices Kagan, Sotomayor, Breyer joined Roberts's Wayfair dissent, in which he stated that Congress ought to be making the laws and not the courts. I never thought I'd agree with Kagan and Sotomayor on anything, but it is strange times in which we live. In anyone's interested, Ginsburg, Alito, Gorsuch, Thomas, Kennedy were in the majority on the Wayfair case while Breyer, Sotomayor, Roberts and Kagan were in the dissent. http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/south-dakota-v-wayfair-inc/ http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/south-dakota-v-wa... It was a 5-4 but not how you would have expected! Anyway, to the point, Quill would have made a challenge to the California law rather easy, but now, the California law will likely pass a Constitutional challenge based on the "undue burden" test established by the courts.
• harryh 8y ago
  For places that require a phone call I came up with a trick to cancel via email. If they reply back via email and say I have to call them, I tell them I'm deaf and can't talk on the phone. Works every time.
  • deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  • mygo 8y ago
    I actually have a speech impairment (a stutter) and you’d think people would be willing to accommodate. I can speak just fine when I have complete agency over the words I choose to say, but it’s the absolute worst when I have to read out some long specific access code or account number and say it 100% correct. Stutter even once and they think I meant 2 P’s when I just wanted to say a single P. And then it becomes this long drawn out process of “after AF6, it’s just a single P, but the rest of it is right” because I really don’t want to have to read out the entire code again. But sadly there have been more times than I can count where I told them I have a speech impairment, it’s difficult for me to say certain things in the way they need me to right now, and I’d prefer to send them an email (even offer to send them an email for them to open while we are still talking)... And they said no they cannot do that for one reason or another.
    • harryh 8y ago
      That sucks. I guess "works every time" is an overstatement. I'm currently 3 for 3 but I guess you have a lot more attempts than I do.
      • selimthegrim 8y ago
        You could always tell them you're halfway through a bottle of Colt 45.
    • jopsen 8y ago
      When I lived in the US I would follow the phone menu for 30s or so, but at some point I would always a get annoyed enough and just hit random keys until the robot says: I don't understand let me connect you... Often hitting # repeatedly did the trick. But lot always.
• leekyle333 8y ago
  The New York Times doesn't allow you to cancel your subscription online.
  • unethical_ban 8y ago
    Interesting. I had subscribed via Amazon for Kindle and did it automatically. I wonder if the same thing would be true if you bought your subscription through the app.
    • radicaldreamer 8y ago
      Apple iTunes based subscriptions also have a very easy way to unsubscribe, probably to the chagrin to companies which use them.
      • bfred_it 8y ago
        I wouldn't call "having to open a separate, unrelated app, visiting its homepage, entering your Account area, finding the Subscriptions list" easy. Easy would be: - Open app with subscription - Go to settings - Find subscriptions
        • radicaldreamer 8y ago
          It’s far easier than having to call anyone
        • sjwright 8y ago
          Perhaps not easy, but it is (a) online, (b) consistent from one app to the next, and (c) pretty much guaranteed to work correctly and work immediately. Considering the sort of problems people are discussing in the wider thread, this is pretty idealistic.
  • goler 8y ago
    Same with Wall Steet Journal if you don’t live in CA. Even for CA residents, the cancellation option is buried in the interface.
• rdiddly 8y ago
  OK now here's an excellent use for Google Duplex. Using a robot to fool a person: annoying. Using a robot to fool someone annoying: fine!
  • ergothus 8y ago
    Yes! This what excited me when 8 first heard about it and I was perplexed why people focused on reservations. That's just the door, and companies on the other end are interested in lowering the barrier for customers. I'm curious what this does for in person issues, and if gyms will take a hit in CA.
    • djrogers 8y ago
      Only applies if you sign up online, not in-person.
  • bb88 8y ago
    Google has since changed this. Google Duplex will not "fool" humans any more. They announce that they're the "Google Assistant" calling on behalf of a customer. I think unfortunately what will happen is that people will just hang up on the google assistant because it's not a real human. It'll be kind of like what happened to the "glassholes". Maybe not as mean though.
    • dave84 8y ago
      Refusing customers and irritating Google probably isn’t in their best interest.
    • jake_the_third 8y ago
      Why? If I were a business that took phone orders, why would I care what's on the other end? As long as it's reliable and intelligent enough, I don't think people will mind. I know I wouldn't.
      • s73v3r_ 8y ago
• maaaats 8y ago
  Not strictly equivalent, but one thing I like about GDPR is that withdrawing consent should be as easy as giving it.
• kelukelugames 8y ago
  I wish this applied to banks too. I tried to pay off my mortgage this week and I had to go to a physical bank and handle them a check for seven hundred dollars. So stupid.
  • rebuilder 8y ago
    That seems very weird to me. I'd think it's more expensive for the bank to process a check than an electronic transaction.
    • thelastidiot 8y ago
      Not if there is fraud involved.
      • kelukelugames 8y ago
        Let me clarify. The bank accepted a 7 figure wire transfer but I wasn't allowed to pay the full amount. I had to pay the leftover in person, even after I got the payoff statement.
  • slezakattack 8y ago
    I had one of those 80-10-10 mortgages and was trying to pay off the 2nd mortgage. Had to go in person, give them a check, and then had to HANDWRITE A LETTER to be sent to corporate (I think?) saying that "yes, I really would like to close out the account that held this mortgage". No template and a "sign here" or anything. They just gave me printer paper and a "just write something" attitude. It was a very odd experience as I wasn't sure how formal it was suppose to be.
    • carapace 8y ago
      Reminds me of this arcane tidbit: you can write your own checks... > you can write a “negotiable instrument,” bank talk for a valid check, on just about anything. According to the Uniform Commercial Code, the body of law that governs these things, all you have to include are the name of the payee, the dollar amount, the name of your bank, your signature, the date, and some suitable words of conveyance, such as “pay to the order of.” You don’t need the account number or the bank ID number you find on preprinted checks. https://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/562/can-you-write-a-check-on-any-old-piece-of-paper/ https://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/562/can-you-write-...
• docker_up 8y ago
  Ring (the video doorbell) is exactly like this and I haven't gotten rid of my subscription because I keep forgetting and their hours are like 9 to 5pm. Hopefully this changes so that I can get rid of that crap.
  • dv_dt 8y ago
    I'm sorry, maybe it's my IoT-get-off-my-network/lawn hackles being raised here, but why does your doorbell need a subscription in the first place?
    • joenathanone 8y ago
      Cloud based DVR functions, the doorbell can record whenever there is a ring or on motion. The subscription isn't mandatory.
    • Skunkleton 8y ago
      Basically because of NAT. Because the devices on your network can't all have public IP addressed, you have to have them all connect to a central public server. Public servers cost money->ring costs money. Of course the reason things are architected this way is so that more people can make money...
      • ddoolin 8y ago
        Can this be solved by using IPv6 and addressing everything publicly?
        • asadlionpk 8y ago
          Won't be fun if there is a vulnerability.
        • Skunkleton 8y ago
          Probably not: 1. NAT provides a basic level of security for your network. The same could be achieved with a firewall, but it isnt the norm. 2. Even without nat, there would still have to be _some_ computer that does the processing on the raw data from the IoT device. There is no reason that couldnt be your PC or Phone, but the precedent has been set that these tasks are performed on a managed device in the "cloud". 3. The companies involved will make less money. A better solution would be to have an IoT gateway device publicly accessible that proxies access to the individual IoT devices. This would create a better security story. If this device were standards based, then each IoT vendor could integrate with it, and router vendors could add the capability to their devices. Of course there is no financial incentive for things to work this way. I guess I only bring up NAT because it is yet another example of the "server" lie. There is no such thing as a computer that is a "server". Programs act as servers. Computers might be "server-class", but all that means is that they are high quality. Driving a wedge between "servers" and normal PCs just pushes more control out of individual's hands.
• thelastidiot 8y ago
  This would have been a welcome change when I tried to break my marriage with Verizon. 3 phone calls later and 2 months passed they were still charging me for the my cell phone service and it took repetitive attempts to straighten things up. Bastards!
• martinpw 8y ago
  I canceled my LA Times subscription online last week. The website says you have to call to cancel. I thought I'd just give it a try online, fully expecting to fail, but to my surprise it all went through easily. They asked for the reason, and when I gave it (excessive ads+tracking) they canceled.
• gesman 8y ago
  WSJ is notorious for "you have to call us to cancel". However I bypassed this by subscribing with amazon where i can cancel subscription online.
  • MrMorden 8y ago
    I canceled my local newspaper subscription (had to repeat "cancel the account" a dozen times whenever the CSR started speaking until they figured it out), subscribed through Google Play, and took 2/3 off the monthly cost.
• CNJ7654 8y ago
  Awesome, I might finally have a viable alternative to voiding payments to companies that play games with canceling
• ebikelaw 8y ago
  My bank allows me to cancel my credit card online, which is good enough for me.
  • reaperducer 8y ago
    My bank allows me to cancel my credit card online, which is good enough for me. I tried to cancel a credit card in order to escape a recurring charge I couldn't cancel. I was informed by Chase that because I had a previous auto-bill relationship with that company, its charges would follow me to my new card, and if necessary, my bank accounts.
• mehrdadn 8y ago
  Are you actually deaf? Or is lying to get exceptions that are meant for the disabled actually legal?
  • Skunkleton 8y ago
    I am fairly certain that it isn't generally illegal to lie to people. Maybe a little shitty, but isn't it shitty to not let people unsubscribe from a service in the same manner they signed up?
    • mehrdadn 8y ago
      This isn't just lying though, it sounds closer to fraud to me (lying go receive services you otherwise wouldn't). It also sounds a bit like parking in the disabled section. And I don't know if there are legal ramifications for using services that are for the disabled but I wouldn't be surprised if there were.
      • c3534l 8y ago
        Parking in a handicapped spot takes resources away from people who need it. This gets around an unethical business practice designed to charge money from people who no longer agree to receive services.
        • mehrdadn 8y ago
          > Parking in a handicapped spot takes resources away from people who need it. And this one does the same? Who says that guy going through the emails for isn't otherwise going to be helping someone who is actually deaf? > This gets around an unethical business practice designed to charge money from people who no longer agree to receive services. This sounds like the most legitimate argument here, if this is indeed unethical. Not sure what my stance is on this.
          • moate 8y ago
            This is not a zero sum equation though. Responding to emails requires FEWER resources relative to having a service representative on a phone call. It creates a more efficient process, which is exactly why subscription based services don't want to do it. Friction in the cancellation process is desirable, because people won't put up with it and will stay with the service longer. From- Someone who works in billing for a SaaS company.
• Waterluvian 8y ago
  My trick to avoid the long retentions go around is to tell them I'm leaving their service area. Why are you looking to cancel your phone plan? Leaving the country. They know they can't win me over and so they don't even try.
  • mjcl 8y ago
    I did something similar when I moved to get rid of my wired phone service. I told AT&T I had signed a contract with Comcast and told Comcast I had signed a contract with AT&T.
  • pentagonpapers 8y ago
    I use "I'm moving back to my parents" always works.
  • ddoolin 8y ago
    I started doing this after I came back from living in Korea a couple of times. The only one who ever tried was, I think, Sprint or another carrier, who offered to put a hold on my account but they could only do that for some short number of months, so of course my next reply was "I'm not planning on coming back."
  • brandonbloom 8y ago
    I've done this several times with Comcast, but it failed with Time Warner when I moved out of NYC. They demand to know why you are canceling and have some sort of way to extract money out of you for every scenario, including moving out of their service area. In that case, they transfer you to another phone system that helps you find a provider at your new address and, presumably, nets them a referral fee of some kind. Meanwhile, if you try any excuse to quit that they haven't accounted for, they tell you "yes sir" and redirect your call to that service as a fallback catch-all. Truly despicable.
    • jkaplowitz 8y ago
      Leaving out of the country is generally more effective than leaving the service area - the arrangements you're describing rarely cross international borders, certainly not within North America (EU might be different).
• humanfromearth 8y ago
  I'm not sure there is a requirement to cancel subscriptions online as the article suggests. From the bill itself (https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180SB313 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtm...): > (b) A business that makes an automatic renewal offer or continuous service offer shall provide a toll-free telephone number, electronic mail address, a postal address if the seller directly bills the consumer, or it shall provide another cost-effective, timely, and easy-to-use mechanism for cancellation that shall be described in the acknowledgment specified in paragraph (3) of subdivision (a). I'm not a lawyer of course.
  • psetq 8y ago
    IANAL, but just after that: 17602... (c) In addition to the requirements of subdivision (b), a consumer who accepts an automatic renewal or continuous service offer online shall be allowed to terminate the automatic renewal or continuous service exclusively online, which may include a termination email formatted and provided by the business that a consumer can send to the business without additional information. though it seems to only apply if the agreement was made online.
• Gruklair 8y ago
  Funny.. I actually had to call justfab.com today to cancel my wife’s account. Took me one hour and three different people before they finally managed to shut it down. First attempt they hung up on me when I told them she was a mute. Second time I just told them it was none of their business why she couldn’t talk on the phone. The account was registered with my credit card in my name but they still wouldn’t let me cancel or even have my credit card removed from the account. Shit company...
• jchw 8y ago
  Cancelling by phone sound bad? Planet Fitness will only let you cancel in person or by certified mail. I moved to California recently, and I still had a Planet Fitness subscription (it was the closest gym to me and it was open 24/7, I won't be doing it again) and now I'm curious if I can use this against them.
  • dawnerd 8y ago
    They'll likely find some loophole around not calling it a subscription. "You're timesharing with our gyms"
    • FireBeyond 8y ago
      They already do. It's not a subscription, it's a membership. LA Fitness is another that lets you sign up online, and cancel only via certified mail.
      • djsumdog 8y ago
        At least with LA Fitness, I said I wanted to cancel and the guy at the desk printed out the letter for me. It was pretty low hassle. There are other gyms that make it a more insane process.
    • djrogers 8y ago
      Well lucky for us, the law doesn’t call it a subscription either.
  • 0xffff2 8y ago
    Did you sign up online? The article says that they have to offer a way for you to cancel online if you originally signed up online.
    • jchw 8y ago
      I did, yes. I both signed up for a plan and entered my payment information online.
• deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
• pbarnes_1 8y ago
  Woohooooo, I hope this means I can cancel my Morningstar sub. They make it impossible.
• turc1656 8y ago
  This is a good law, but I'm genuinely curious...is this really such an issue? Personally, I can't remember the last time (maybe ever?) having this issue. Maybe I don't have a lot of subscriptions. Maybe I don't cancel often. Maybe I come off on the phone as not budging an inch. The last time I recall having even the slightest bit of an issue was cancelling my AOL service ~18 years ago and even that wasn't as bad as everyone made it out to be. Are the individual experiences shared in the article (and here in the comments) exceptions or the norm? Even cancelling my last gym membership was a breeze.
  • Glyptodon 8y ago
    At a previous employer that provides a subscription-based online digital service one task I was given was removing the ability to cancel said subscriptions via the website and replacing everything with calls to customer service. (Apparently it had a quite measurable impact on retention. To quote one of the managers, the people trying to cancel didn't actually want to cancel, what they really needed were "instructional opportunities" that customer service could do over the phone. And to be fair, I do think there was an element of "I don't know how to do thing X, I'll just cancel" in some of the cancellations. But not all.) It was among a handful of similar reasons that caused me to leave for public sector work which isn't based on used car sales type manipulation and evil BS.
  • always_good 8y ago
    I once hornily punched my credit card number into a camsite to get "200 free coins". After using them all (I gave them all to one cam girl after feeling bad for her), I tried canceling the subscription. The <form> around the <button>cancel</button> was literally commented out in the html. I forgot about it, got charged 2 weeks later, and issued a chargeback. Never got charged again.
    • joering2 8y ago
      Watch out your credit score for a few months now. Some online merchants in CNP environment have power to put a negative remark on your credit if your credit card processor (Visa/MC/etc) deems they have higher trustworth score than you do. I seen it happening to people. Your score will not go down,; however there will be derogatory flag that could make it harder for you to get new credit card, etc. I seen those on peoples files for up to 18 months, and then gone. Edit: here is the phrase that may show up on your credit report: "Account information disputed by consumer, meets FCRA requirements"
• dawnerd 8y ago
  Frontier is like the easiest company to cancel with. I called and asked to cancel and they didn't even bother with retentions. Meanwhile stamps.com and SiriusXM were by far the two most difficult with Terminix and ADT coming in a close third. I usually just tell them I'll issue a chargeback if they bill again and that USUALLY works. It's why now if I can I'll use paypal so I can just easily cancel the payment plan. For stamps I had to have chase stop all payments to them which seemed to eventually work.
• btrettel 8y ago
  There have been a few times where I didn't sign up for a service because I anticipated cancelling would be a pain. The fact that trials often autorenew makes me reluctant to even do a trial. I wonder how much business is lost this way vs. how much is gained from making cancelling hard.
  • VLM 8y ago
    Cable TV is a classic example. If you ask how much it'll cost after the promotion ends, they'll go on repeat, "It'll be $20 for the first three months".
• theweb1 8y ago
  Perfect! California leading the way, cancelling subscriptions shouldn't be an issue at all, sadly business use fraudulent ways with it.
• adrr 8y ago
  This was already required in the Visa Merchant agreement. If you signed up online. The merchant must provide an online way to cancel which could be email, webpage or chat. If they don't just call up your card issuer and file a "canceled recurring" dispute as the merchant doesn't provide a visa acceptable way to cancel the subscription. https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/download/about-visa/15-April-2015-Visa-Rules-Public.pdf https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/download/about-visa/15-April-2... Section: 5.9.8.2
  • khc 8y ago
    so the solution to having to call a merchant to cancel a subscription is to call your card issuer to cancel a subscription?
    • slededit 8y ago
      If your vindictive this is a great way to increase their card processing costs.
      • qaq 8y ago
        You seriously believe this will increase processing costs to say Verizon or Comcast?
        • slededit 8y ago
          They are not the only ones using this dark pattern, and it does get escalated to more expensive employees even at Comcast.
        • coryfklein 8y ago
          Of course it does. With a provider as large as that they surely engage in negotiations with credit card providers, and you can bet that the fraudulent charge rate is a huge part of that discussion. Verizon/Comcast's handling of recurring cancellations is directly tied to Visa's cost of doing business with them.
    • 8y ago
• EastSmith 8y ago
  Great. Pining users a week before an yearly renew would be nice law too.
• tothrowaway 8y ago
  Another way to get out of subscriptions is to change your billing credit card to one generated by a service like Privacy.com. Then just close the card out. Some sites/services are getting more savvy about pre-paid cards though (DigitalOcean won't accept one). I tried to use a burner card on a snail mail advertisement offering a $50 gift card to sign up for a trial of a magazine subscription. Didn't work.
  • gnicholas 8y ago
    Some cards also offer virtual card numbers, which you can put a time and dollar limit on. I have a 2% back Citi card that happens to offer this handy feature.
    • xirdstl 8y ago
      I have a Bank of America card with the same feature. In some ways I’m glad it’s not more widely used, or merchants might start banning the BINs the virtual cards use.
  • aninhumer 8y ago
    This means they can't process the payment, but it doesn't necessarily cancel the subscription, and if not, you still owe them the money legally, even if they can't get it easily.
  • varenc 8y ago
    I've found these work great for free trials as well. Just use a burner card and enjoy the trial without any worry you might be charged from forgetting to cancel.
• surfmike 8y ago
  I hope this forces the NYTimes to allow online cancellations too.
  • eliseumds 8y ago
    I got rid of them when my card was stolen and then cancelled. They couldn't bill me anymore and my account was downgraded.
    • dev_dull 8y ago
      Better than WSJ, which continues to let you use the service but threatens to send the bill to collections.
  • dqpb 8y ago
    You can unsubscribe via chat. The caveat is that it's a horrible experience which takes over an hour. I guess they want to make sure that if you leave you never want to come back. This makes them feel like such a shady company.
  • sequoia 8y ago
    Funny that NYT came up on two separate threads here. I know they made me go through hell to cancel, sounds like I'm not the only one.
    • Macha 8y ago
      Media outlets in general. I know they make the argument about GDPR and ad tracking that they need it because nobody pays for them, but maybe more people would pay if it wasn't so foolish to trust them with your payment details.
• duxup 8y ago
  I hate calling and going through the hoops and even then what proof do you have you cancelled? I called a place recently and asked to cancel, first question was. "Did you read the cancellation date!?!" Yeah I did and I know you aren't because you didn't even ask my name yet... So they look it up and ask again what I want, I tell them to cancel it again.... "Ok I updated it" Damn it....word game city population me.
• cj0011001 8y ago
  There's this company that offers internet service on flights also claims to offer secure hotspots, (it's a gimmick) around cities all over the US they're based in Los Angeles: Boingo Wireless. The only way to cancel the service is to call in, that's their whole scheme. When you they treat that as if you were doing something extremely complicated and that takes time. One of the customer service representative told me that he would have to contact the engineering department to cancel my account...Like that would be necessary. I was getting impatient, on the phone for about 40 minutes. This new law will be the end of them.
  • cj0011001 8y ago
    https://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/boingo-wireless-c275982.html https://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/boingo-wireless-c...
  • cj0011001 8y ago
    I apologize for not proofreading my post.
• echevil 8y ago
  This is great. It was so hard to cancel Adobe subscription
• cj0011001 8y ago
  There's this company that offers internet service on flights also claims to offer secure hotspots, (it's a gimmick) around cities all over the US they're based in Los Angeles: Boingo Wireless. The only way to cancel the service is to call in, that's their whole scheme. When you call in they treat that as if you were doing something extremely complicated and that takes time. One of the customer service representative told me that he would have to contact the engineering department to cancel my account...Like that would be necessary. I was getting impatient, on the phone for about 40 minutes. This new law will be the end of them.
• aphextron 8y ago
  Honestly, the best way to handle these things is to forget even bothering with the company and file a charge-back with your bank or Visa/Mastercard. You have every right to call up your bank and deny a charge for a service you're not using, and didn't ask to renew. Plus it's guaranteed to get the charge removed immediately, and you'll be hurting the company by adding to their charge-back tally, increasing payment processing costs for them and potentially completely cutting them off.
  • TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
    Ultimately the solution is to let the customer manage their subscriptions via their payment service provider. PayPal does this.
    • deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    • petilon 8y ago
      PayPal tried to take money from my checking account because Consumer Reports "autorenewed" my subscription -- without my knowledge or explicit authorization. As soon as I saw this I reported this as an unauthorized transaction on PayPal. But PayPal failed to stop the payment in time, even though at the time of my flagging it was unpaid. I then called BofA and blocked PayPal and that worked. So at the moment I have a negative balance on PayPal. PayPal called me to try and collect it from me, but I told them to fsck off: I had not explicitly authorized either Consumer Reports or PayPal. I didn't realize PayPal could dip into my checking account any time they wanted to. I thought it required my manual action. No more PayPal for me. This is a standard procedure for many merchants these days: Offer an attractive initial price, then add fine print that states your account will autorenew at "then current" rates, and you have to make a phone call (where you have to hold for 20 to 30 minutes for the next available representative) if you want to cancel. I am glad California is taking action. They still have a for-the-people government in California.
      • sonnyblarney 8y ago
• xmrsilentx 8y ago
  I've actually closed bank accounts to get away from subscription services. It really is an outrage. What more should it take than telling them you don't want to pay for their service anymore?
  • deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  • jjeaff 8y ago
    I've had a bank (Bank of America), tell me that the only way to stop a recurring, fraudulent ACH charge was to close my account and open a different one. I did close the account, but saw no reason to reopen one with boa. The kicker is that a few months later, I get a delinquent negative balance notice from boa. The ACH charge had struck again. I called and asked how in the world I could get an ACH charge on a closed account with $0 in it. The agent said that the account will automatically reopen!!! anytime someone tries to charge it. They will also automatically charge you overdraft fees, and then an overdraft fee when the overdraft fee bounces, and then a negative balance fee... and an overdraft fee when that one hits. Just telling the story gets my blood boiling again. Never ever deal with any large corporation if you can help it.
  • salvar 8y ago
    I guess there was some truth to that Friends episode.
• scardine 8y ago
  Tried to cancel an Upwork account, a message said I should call a number in USA. I called and a message told me I should call between x AM to y PM business days. It is somewhat expensive to call from Brazil just to hear a recorded message saying the call was useless. In the end I was able to cancel using their web chat. The experience just confirmed my opinion about the company.
• salehhamadeh 8y ago
  Last week I spent 1 hour and 20 minutes waiting for a Zipcar rep to answer my call. Creating my account was as simple as taking a photo of my license within the app and getting into a car. Companies that make signing up easy and cancellation difficult are the worst.
• jkw 8y ago
  Will this be true for gyms as well?? That would be a game-changer.
• dev_dull 8y ago
  I hate to say and use it, but my best tool in situations like this is disposable credit card numbers via the privacy app. I make a best effort to close the account, and if that doesn’t work I cancel the temporary credit card I used to sign up for the service. Make sure to get your cancelation attempt in writing (email, etc) because some places will still try and collect.
• dreamache 8y ago
  Yay, more laws and more power to the state. /s
• hoveringcto 8y ago
  Simply telling the merchant I will do a chargeback has worked every time for me (provided it's a credit card charge).
  • lotsofpulp 8y ago
    That works until the merchant you’re dealing with is a monopoly or duopoly and you need them more than they need you.
  • toomuchtodo 8y ago
    Some merchants have it in their contract (for subscriptions) that any chargebacks will go to a collection agency, which dings your credit.
    • drb91 8y ago
      Do you have a link for this? I’d like to read more.
      • toomuchtodo 8y ago
        http://blog.credit.com/2015/06/think-you-won-your-credit-card-dispute-not-so-fast-118101/ http://blog.credit.com/2015/06/think-you-won-your-credit-car...
    • jkaplowitz 8y ago
      It's probably disputable as in violation of their merchant agreement, but yeah most people will just suffer under the consequences instead of pushing back.
      • toomuchtodo 8y ago
        “However that doesn’t stop them from trying to collect payment directly from consumers. A review of some merchant agreements found online were silent on the issue of whether they can subsequently try to collect from consumers. And when we asked the major card companies whether their merchant agreements restrict this practice, only American Express responded, saying in an email that, “American Express has an established charge dispute process in place that takes into account both the Card Member and the merchant perspectives. Our policies do not prohibit a merchant from seeking to collect payment from a Card Member for a transaction that is charged back to a merchant.” http://blog.credit.com/2015/06/think-you-won-your-credit-card-dispute-not-so-fast-118101/ http://blog.credit.com/2015/06/think-you-won-your-credit-car...
• tounu 8y ago
  As long as it's not a Spotify subscription :)
  • adityapurwa 8y ago
    I dont know whether its their mistakes or not, but the moment I discovered that they have data leak, I immediately cancelled my trial membership and asked then to delete my account.
  • wepple 8y ago
    Spotify lost me as a customer when they forced me to use some ridiculous chat to explain why I was cancelling my account. I was actually cancelling to re-sign-up using a non-Facebook account as a paid subscriber.. Add silly friction and you get -1 customer.
    • dizzant 8y ago
      When did this happen to you? I've been considering the same, but switching accounts hasn't yet been worth the hassle.
      • jrowley 8y ago
        You should be able to just disconnect your facebook account, and login via email, no?
        • robin_reala 8y ago
          Maybe now? When I tried to swap from a Facebook login to an email login after deleting my FB account a couple of years ago there was literally no way, so I just cancelled my payments and went with Apple Music instead.
        • wepple 8y ago
          You’d think so, right? Nope: https://community.spotify.com/t5/Accounts/Change-from-Facebook-login-to-an-actual-spotify-account/td-p/53605 https://community.spotify.com/t5/Accounts/Change-from-Facebo...
• ec109685 8y ago
  Another consumer first law I would like to see is that if a service detects you haven’t used it in the previous period, they refund your subscription fee. There is so much wasted money on zombie subscriptions that people forget about.
  • matte_black 8y ago
    It’s not wasted, the money goes to the business.
  • dexterdog 8y ago
    Doesn't work for services like Dropbox where they are giving you non refundable goods.
  • Cyphase 8y ago
    I understand where you're coming from (though I would never legislate it), but compare it to insurance. Should your car insurance company have to refund your premiums if you don't "use" their service in some time period, i.e. you don't file a claim? Should a life insurance company return all your premiums if you don't die during the covered term? I'm going to say no. In the case of insurance, you're paying for someone else to take on a risk that you either can't afford to take on, or that it doesn't make financial sense for you to take on. In the case of a streaming subscription (for example), you're paying for the ability to, at any moment, start streaming whatever content the service is making available. Even if you never use that ability within a given month, you still had the option, and that's what you were paying for. In fact, you could frame that this way: you're paying to remove the "risk" that you'll want to stream something at some point and won't be able to because you don't have an active subscription. And on a more personal level, I don't understand why people can't just manage their subscriptions better. Dark patterns that make canceling subscriptions difficult are one thing, but if a service makes it easy for you to cancel, and you just haven't done it, that's on you. That said, if a service wants to refund subscribers for unused service periods, that would be a great feature. Or, as a middle ground, send an email saying, "You haven't logged in in X months; do you want to cancel your subscription?" X could even be configurable, and cancellation could be automatic, e.g. cancel the subscription if the user hasn't logged in for 3 months.
• jedberg 8y ago
  One of the philosophies at Netflix was that it should be as easy to cancel as it is to sign up, because you should respect your customers enough not to annoy them into keeping your service. Honestly, it always seemed to me that it was actually easier to cancel than the sign up.
  • adrr 8y ago
    Any company that generates value for a customer doesn't have retention issues. I used to run software engineering at two subscription commerce companies. One company allowed users to cancel and pause/skip online via webpage, chat, email and even social channels. The other forced customers to call up support to cancel. The first company sold for 10 figures, the other company just did a down round and layoffs. Screwing over customers is good for short-term gain, but eventually, you run out of new customers and you burned the bridge for re-aquiring former customers.
    • Matt3o12_ 8y ago
      This is unfortunately only true in a competitive environment for non essential goods. If you provide services such as internet, or telephone where people can only choose between one or two providers, which are all equally bad, the customers don’t have a choice. And then there are services where people sign up but only a very small percentage would voluntarily come back no matter how good or bad your service is because they sign up out of impulse. Gyms are good examples for those — people sign up because they want to lose weight/stay fitter, etc but only a small percentage actually goes there after the first few times. This of course sucks for the regular customers who want to pause their membership because they are too busy for a few months or move, etc (but on the other hand, those no-goes also subsidies the regular goers because the gym can offer a lower price for everyone). For those companies, we need laws that make it equally as easy to cancel as to sign up.
      • mgkimsal 8y ago
        >This of course sucks for the regular customers who want to pause their membership because they are too busy for a few months or move Yeah, I'd wanted to pause my gym membership for 3 months a couple years back because I was going to be traveling a lot, and wasn't going to be in town. Only option was to cancel, then pay a new "processing fee" to start again months later. Really pissed me off. I'd been a member for 2 years at that point, using regularly. no exceptions to their policy. i left. i did go back a couple years later, when they had a 'sign up and we waive the processing fee!' promotion (closest/best combination of pool/gym - everything else is miles further). They'd have had my monthly money for another couple years with minimal use by me during that time, save for a stupid policy that "we can't change". ugh...
• maym86 8y ago
  Will this apply to bank accounts and credit cards? That would be fantastic.
• rubicon33 8y ago
  I run a software business myself here in CA, and allowing users to manage their subscription easily was one of my first priorities. Nothing frustrates me more than companies that make this process difficult. If a user doesn't like your service and wants to cancel, they deserve an easy in-app/in-web experience to do it.
• sitepodmatt 8y ago
  Scum like WSJ still practice the call to cancel timewaste practice
• wittjeff 8y ago
  I've only used this a couple of times but I think it works: "I'd like to cancel my service. I'm going to say this really clearly for the recording, in case I have to subpoena this for evidence. I want to cancel my service, effective [date]. When I hang up this phone, I want there to be no financial relationship between myself and your company of any kind. None. I don't want any further communication from you other than a final statement showing a zero balance due. Now we can make this call as long as you'd like. No. Financial. Relationship. We're done." Then go silent, and if they try to pitch you any products of any kind, interrupt and ask "Are you refusing to cancel my service? Speak clearly for the recording."
  • mltony 8y ago
    But recording phone conversations is illegal in most states, so unless you live in a state where it's legal, they might know that you are bluffing.
    • craftyguy 8y ago
      They almost always record your calls for 'quality purposes'. But you're not exactly right.. you can record phone conversations in the US provided you let them know before you push the 'record' button.
      • ryandrake 8y ago
        When they say, “this call may be recorded,” aren’t they giving you permission to record it?
        • craftyguy 8y ago
          I've never thought about it that way, but yes, it does seem like they are giving you permission. Thanks for the new insight!
        • toomanyrichies 8y ago
          Apparently not. This Daily Dot article quotes the EFF as saying that, even when a company informs you that your call is being recorded, you don't necessarily have the right to record it yourself: "Dave Maass of the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) argues that what Davis did is likely illegal. 'Just because Comcast told the customer that the call was being recorded, that doesn’t mean it’s legal for him to record the call without notification,' Maass tells the Daily Dot. 'To stay on the right side of the law, everyone has to let everyone else know if they’re recording a conversation.'" Source- https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/comcast-customer-service-recording-secret-weapon/ https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/comcast-customer-service-rec...
• paulie_a 8y ago
  I've found simply emailing them and asking for a call back to be surprisingly effective, or I in a few cases i stop paying them by changing the billing to a card that is about to expire. And if necessary the phrase "I will be contacting my state attorney general's office, consumer fraud division, what was your name again?" is the atomic bomb in getting things resolved.
• intrasight 8y ago
  I've never been confronted with the "can't cancel service hell" but clearly it must be a problem if CA passed this law. I don't have cable TV. Where else besides cable does one experience this?
  • here-for-karma 8y ago
    Gym memberships are particularly terrible at this in my experience
    • intrasight 8y ago
      That was indeed that last one where doing a cancel was "involved". But it only involved sending a letter by certified mail, and all the info/details were on their web site.
• mchahn 8y ago
  This is awesome. Is anyone else old enough to remember trying to cancel AOL?
• downandout 8y ago
  Why not just use Privacy [1] when you sign up? It allows you to generate virtual cards on a per-merchant basis anytime you want. You can simply shutoff the card(s) when you want to cancel. No phone calls, emails, or faking deafness required. I’ve been a big fan of it ever since I discovered them. [1] https://privacy.com https://privacy.com
• daveheq 8y ago
  If you registered online or are getting emails, you should be able to unregister online or through email. Period.
• sgustard 8y ago
  Tivo, based in California, is clearly in violation. https://www.tivo.com/contact-us https://www.tivo.com/contact-us "Please note: At this time, it is not possible to use chat to cancel" ... and same for email, leaving phone as the only option.
• shinymoon 8y ago
  Wow, just the right article at the right time: today after seeing SiriusXM charges of ~ $20 monthly for subscription, to my huge surprise, I searched for online cancellation, only to find none exists. I called them to cancel and indeed ended up not canceling, rather getting a promo deal. I really love SiriusXM while driving, but that lack of online cancellation completely annoyed me.
  • deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
• flyGuyOnTheSly 8y ago
  Thank god for that. I made the mistake of joining a Goodlife gym in Canada many moons ago... The place was disgusting. Always crowded. Mould growing in the bathrooms. Stunk very badly, etc... So I stopped going regularly... and one day I was in the area I decided to stop in and cancel my membership. "Oh sorry, you'll need to make an appointment with management in order to cancel." "OK, is a manager in right now?" "Yes, the manager is in but I was told not to disturb her right now." "OK, well can you tell her a customer is waiting paitiently to cancel his account?" "No, sorry, I am not allowed to disturb her. You're going to need to make an appointment and come back." So I did that... And about 3 weeks later I went in at the agreed upon time to cancel my subscription and I was just sitting... waiting... for over 1 hour... Right beside a poor old lady that was trying to cancel her subscription as well!!! She was overly polite and was dealing with this overagressive meathead trying to keep her locked into the service... "I hate coming here... I never come... I never should have signed up... I just want to cancel..." "But do you have any friends that might want to take on your subscription? It's at a discounted rate and you might be able to help them out by transferring it over to them." "No, I do know know anyone who wants to come here." "Ok, let me go talk to my manager about this." And he left for like 20 minutes and came back and gave her the gears again. When my turn came... I just said "I'm moving to england and I don't know a single person here who might want to absorb my contract". It was a total lie... but it was the only answer that would get me out of there in under 10 minutes. Companies abusing politeness really are terrible to society.
  • swayvil 8y ago
    The abuse of politeness appears to be the cornerstone of our society. My name is MEGACORP. I am a member of the polite society that contains us both. A polite person follows the rules with a smile. The rules say that I get to eat you.
    • smsm42 8y ago
      Politeness is not a problem. You can be very polite and still insist on doing what you want. You just need to realize the person who's selling you crap is not your friend and you don't owe them anything, and politely refuse to take it. Saying "no, I do not want this, thank you" is not impolite.
• dmode 8y ago
  Brilliant. Freaking. Law. I hope this applies to scammy gym memberships, Comcast, Equifax, TransUnion (their scam of signing you up), newspaper subscriptions etc.
• Proven 8y ago
  Nanny State overreach which punishes small businesses and makes the busybodies feel good about themselves. What else is new in California?
• TomK32 8y ago
  We europeans better block every access from California due to this overreaching undemocratic GDPR style law. /s
  • subroutine 8y ago
    European law is years beyond this. Consumer laws in some EU countries stipulate that a person can cancel a subscription simply by vocalizing this intention out their front door between the hours of 9am-3pm. "Heyy, I'm cancelling."
    • DavideNL 8y ago
      Hah, nice one. Where i live (The Netherlands, Europe) you are allowed by law to cancel subscriptions in the same way you signed up. That seems fair... so if you sign up via internet then you can cancel via internet. No more cancel-bullying.
• maelito 8y ago
  I've spent 4 months to find a way to cancel my complementary health insurance in France. They were sending me letters with 2 weeks delay asking me for other documents.
• meitham 8y ago
  In the UK the easiest way is to just cancel your direct debit. This usually promptd the business to cancel your membership and usually follows up with some letters to demand extra payment. You could safely ignore these letters, even if it comes from a credit collection agency, and the court will side with you if you explain the complexity in getting out of these contracts.
• nmca 8y ago
  Is there not a service in the US that does this on your behalf?
• Ours90 8y ago
  had the same problem with Scribd recently. I've cancelled my subscription in the end of April, but still got a notification from PayPal about the money transfer in the end of May. I had to contact them per email and luckily they were very friendly and accommodating, they've cancelled my subscription on the same day and I've got my money back in two days.
• joelhaasnoot 8y ago
  As a European, I ran into this with WSJ. Subscribing is easy and online, cancelling is only by phone. Their Dutch access number didn't work either, forcing me to use their international numbers at the cost of international phone call.
• dalbasal 8y ago
  There are some built in problems when it comes to this sort of regulator-esque legislation. If a company doesn't want to "do X," but is being forced to, the specific, legalistically deconstructed definition of 'X' gets very important. On the path between the kind of grand moral statements politicians trade in to the way corporate lawyers use language... a lot gets lost A common 'X' is "inform customers of something": pharmaceutical side effects, the real interest rate on a loan, etc. This often leads to a cat and mouse game, where companies "inform" customers by way of 10,000 word small print documents they know no one reads. Then the regulator tries to stop it, saying this information must be part of all advertising. Then we get verbal small print. Etc. This is why regulators exist, to play this cat and mouse game. GDPR, cookie laws, and a lot of the laws which effectively govern business have these issues. Our legislative/political system just doesn't deal with this well. On one hand we have politics, that hates detail. On the other hand, a legal bureaucracy that hates principle. It also doesn't care for economics and isn't too worried about creating environments devoid of real competition, which is an unwanted side effect of getting "regulatory." In any case, the real underlying problem here, IMO, is that 3rd parties should not have this kind of control in their hands in the first place. HNers will probably reach for blockchains and smart contracts, but this could be build into credit cards or any payment method. It doesn't really matter. Just put the ability to turn payments on/off in customer's hands. Send the service a notice. Done. We've built up all these "convenient" ways for customers to authorize repeat payment, without building in an off button. Now they're regulating the use of them instead They should have an off button. That's it.
  • claudius 8y ago
    Alternatively, don’t force the company to accept/deny specific forms of communication; simply make it clear that any communication is sufficient to cancel a contract. There’s no point for a company to build a convoluted website if any customer knows they can send an email to info@example.com or a direct message or a text "I cancel my contract with you, my account number is 1234." and the only claim the company could make to counter that is that it didn’t receive the e-mail/message. Not that it’s internal processes didn’t allow for the message to be received, but that its infrastructure never actually received it (in which case the user would have received an email bounce message). To be nice, request the company to acknowledge receipt of the notification and, if not received, repeat on multiple channels (including certified snail mail). Oh, and make it illegal to hide surprising bits in terms and conditions due to the information asymmetry typically accompanying those :)
• valeryB 8y ago
  What I don't really understand is why would they complicate the cancellation process so much and frustrate the customers? I mean, if I want to cancel, I'll hang on the phone the whole day and eventually cancel it.
• philip1209 8y ago
  Does this apply to Comcast?
• rmc 8y ago
  The EU's new data privacy law (GDPR) allows you to withdraw consent, and "it must be as easy to withdraw consent as to give it". A perfectly clear and powerful way to describe what is wanted. "It must be as easy to cancel a subscription as to subscribe" would a similar, effective way to do it here.
• lousyd 8y ago
  I can't see an email or button being any different than the telephone. I would prefer being able to cancel online. But I don't see forcing companies to offer that as being all consumer protectiony.
• codedokode 8y ago
  Recurring payments are implemented in the worst way possible. You cannot see a list of your subscriptions online, cannot see how much you have spent, cannot stop or cancel them. And even if you don't use some service anymore, they still can charge you. That is because systems like Visa earn money only when you spend and have no motivation to make cancelling easier.
  • paulddraper 8y ago
    That's why you need a virtual credit card solution.
• Uhrheber 8y ago
  You know what happened the last time I canceled a magazine subscription in Germany? I sent them an email, and got the confirmation back one day later. End of story.
• FidelCashflow 8y ago
  I pay for recurring stuff with a CC for this very reason. I had an insurance company refuse to cancel my insurance unless I physically came into their office all the way across town (would have been about two hours of my time when it was all said and done) to show them proof that I had insurance through another agency. I declined that request and explained that they simply weren't getting paid any more. I called the number on my card and explained the situation to them and that I told them to stop billing me and they refused. The rep noted this issue on the account. Sure enough, they didn't stop billing me. I called the card company again to report that the insurance company had billed me again. They immediately reversed the charges and blocked all further charges from the company. The insurance agent reported me to DMV (the relationship had soured pretty badly before this all happened) for not having insurance. It was a 2 minute call to my new insurance agent to let them to know to send proof of coverage to DMV. Problem solved in ~10 minutes of my time instead of 2 hours.
  • cptskippy 8y ago
    > The insurance agent reported me to DMV (the relationship had soured pretty badly before this all happened) for not having insurance. It was a 2 minute call to my new insurance agent to let them to know to send proof of coverage to DMV. This wasn't necessarily a malicious act on their part, most likely regulatory, and you probably didn't have to do anything to rectify the situation. I don't know what state you live in but when I was working for an insurance broker (~2004) CA, TX, PA, FL, and GA all received at least monthly if not nightly uploads of vehicle coverage. I also know that GA shares that info and DMV records with FL and NC.
  • bruxis 8y ago
    I don't have enough exposure to the product (not available in my region) but I really liked the _idea_ of privacy.com where you can create a credit card proxy for every subscription you have. This seems extremely valuable for managing subscriptions, tracking your funds, and of course, some modicum of privacy where your original credit card is only shared with one party. edit: Seems like privacy.com is a direct-to-bank connection instead of depending on a credit card for funding.
• JTbane 8y ago
  I agree with this law, as many of these sort of services are very difficult to cancel. Many gyms require "certified mail" stating you wish to cancel the renewal of your contract.
• oytis 8y ago
  I wish that Germany had such law. Self-prolongating contracts that can only be cancelled with a formal letter after N years of paying is a total disaster here.
• Torai 8y ago
  It was about time. Anyway, the subscription model is kind of a shitty model for things that are not like Netflix, Spotify or some good designed SaaS. I mean all that entrepreneur wannabes that copy to "Box of X every month" or "A simple SaaS that took me 5K to hire a freelance to do it but I have a niche" model. Please forget about it. I just want a handful of good subscription services in my life. Because I tend to forget I'm paying them.
• coding123 8y ago
  This is how the internet will get better as a hole. There's no way for companies to track lots of different states requirements, so they implement all the requirements for all the states (and EU). I hope that more small states create laws with giant consequences.
• ghosterrific 8y ago
  Do you think this law will require the government to offer online opt outs for their subscriptions?