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SF Restaurants Can’t Afford Waiters. So They’re Putting Diners to Work
- ibejoeb 8y agoThat's a cafeteria. My favorite dining experience in SF was when I got half of a deviled egg for $9, and the server was just too fucking bothered to tell me that I should order another half for my date. I'll bet they're still going to try to slip in the "healthcare" fee for the non-existent full timers. Just one more thing: people will absolutely pay $20 for a burger. Many places sell more expensive burgers, and at some they are the most popular and profitable menu item. Raise prices.
- codezero 8y agoWas that egg at Marlowe?
- 40four 8y agoHaha! You are correct. Establishments like this are technically just glorified cafeterias at this point. https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/cafeteria https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/cafeteria Calling it a "restaurant" is a misnomer. https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/restaurant https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/restaurant
- Eridrus 8y agoSo, a question from a foreigner, if you buy something at a counter, should you tip? I would think the answer is no, but in states where minimum wage laws are different for tipped workers, I would expect the answer to be yes, but are there other guidelines? Does it matter if you eat in vs take out? What are the damn expectations?
- JackCh 8y agoIf you buy something at a counter, there is no social expectation that you tip (bartenders are the sole exception, but just give them a dollar not a percentage.) Nor for takeout, but you should definitely tip for delivery (those guys get a raw deal anyway, their pay sucks and they're almost always putting miles on their personal vehicle. Tip them with cash when possible, to make sure they get to keep it...)
- aeontech 8y agoGiving bartenders a dollar no matter the order amount is not cool, really. That’s how you turn invisible to them the next time you want to order a drink ;)
- niftich 8y agoLast discussed 9 hours prior; at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17394551 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17394551
- ww520 8y agoIt seems like the media team at NYTimes has pushed things too far, pushing dup's to the front page a bit too often.
- dang 8y agoIt's easy enough to see for yourself via https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=nytimes.com https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=nytimes.com that it isn't "the media team at NYTimes" who's posting most of these. As for dupes, they happen every day.
- HumanDrivenDev 8y agoThe small menu is so appealing and the place itself so charming that you almost forget, as a diner, that you have to do much of the work of dining out yourself. You scout your own table. You fetch and fill your own water glass. And if you’d like another glass of wine, you go back to the counter. A lot of low-range restaurants work in Australia and New Zealand. Is this really that rare in America?
- lightedman 8y agoYea, in America, most restaurants, hell even Mcdonalds, are full service. You still walk in a line through McD's, but you sit down and they bring your order and drink to you, etc.
- swinnipeg 8y agoThis is common in the USA at fast food (McDonalds..etc) and fast casual (Chipotle...etc) restaurants. It is rare for a place that sells their cheapest 250ml glass of wine for $13USD to operate this way. But likely this was just chosen as a restaurant to fit the discussion of certain types of labour being priced out of SF.
- seanmcdirmid 8y agoSwitzerland has a lot of high end cafeterias, I’m sure 13USD wine would be considered cheap.
- p1necone 8y agoI'm from New Zealand and can also confirm that there are plenty of small cafes and restaurants where you have to order at the counter. It's not a new thing here either.
- philliphaydon 8y agoWait there’s cafe where you don’t go to the counter? I’m from NZ and living in Singapore and traveled all around Asia, never been in a cafe where I didn’t have to go to the counter...
- dmode 8y agoNot sure I see the problem, restaurants survive, people eat good food, and living wages are paid. Sure the market for college students earning a side income is impacted, but does that even happen in SF ?
- oddity 8y agoThis article isn't talking about the market for college students. It's talking about what would be an "average" person almost anywhere other than SF. Living wages aren't being paid because the cost of living has risen to the point where the wage once paid is no longer livable. This means that restaurants must either increase prices or cut employees, which when taken in aggregate further increases the cost of living and lowers the average income. Yes, "restaurants" as a category survive, but the low end gets devastated. Many of these may have been around for a long time and some of them may have been a major part of the local community or have been local favorites. If you don't have a problem with that, then that's fine, but hopefully you understand why others might.
- everdev 8y agoIn Santa Cruz we have a bar with no bartenders. It's fantastic. Scan your bracelet (linked to your CC), pour yourself whatever beer on tap you want and pay only for the once you pour. Want one once of 16 different beers? No problem. Can't get that experience at a traditional bar. The seating is more like a restaurant, so no one is sitting by themselves staring at a wall full of hard alcohol, everyone is facing the room and mingling. And the notion of the wise bartender with an ear to lend from the movies I never saw transpire in real life.
- toomanybeersies 8y agoGiven how bad most people are at pouring beers even from a bottle, let alone from tap, I don't know if that's a good idea. But then again, I've seen plenty of bartenders completely screw up the pouring process. Just the other day I had a German backpacker behind the bar try to pour my Guinness like it was a lager. > And the notion of the wise bartender with an ear to lend from the movies I never saw transpire in real life. I'm surprised that you haven't found any wise bartenders yet. That's one of the reasons I enjoy going to good craft beer pubs. When I used to work in a pub I had a good knowledge of every beer on tab, whenever there was a new beer I'd have a half pint of it so that I'd know what it was like. I was actually familiar enough with the regular beers that we served that I was able to discern the variations between the batches that came in.
- jedberg 8y agoI went to a place like that. The nice thing is, if you get a shitty pour, you have no one to blame but yourself! I actually got to try three different drinks for the price of one, since they have no problem if you give yourself a one ounce pour. In fact, they have a button right on the machine to dispense one ounce. It was great.
- jcelerier 8y ago> Want one once of 16 different beers? No problem. apart from the lack of decency. > And the notion of the wise bartender with an ear to lend from the movies I never saw transpire in real life. maybe not like "in the movies" but did you ever try to at least befriend the bartender ?
- walru 8y agoSay you have questions and want to try something different, but are afraid to pay for something you don't want. Or, you're thirsty for a cocktail you've never had before and would like a suggestion. Isn't anyone afraid of losing that experience?
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- azinman2 8y agoMeanwhile, the cities answers to it’s problems (according to the recent ballot initiatives), more taxes! On commercial spaces! Despite record revenue! Because that won’t accelerate our vicious cycle at all...
- ponzored 8y agoThis just seems like a good idea independent of labour costs. We don't need a planet of 16 billion with so many workers performing simple tasks that could easily be removed with improved processes like at this restaurant. A planet of 2 billion with cheap land and cheap food for a happy, intelligent, beautiful and productive human workforce and lots of natural habitat for flora and fauna would be a better place. Even if we have to find our own table at a restaurant.
- bsimpson 8y agoSouvla is a bad example. They have like 3 kinds of wrap (or salad, if you prefer no grains) and frozen yogurt. It's basically SF's version of Chipotle, or a Greek themed taqueria. It's quick-casual comfort food, and as in both those examples, counter service. There are countless examples of quick casual, counter service restaurants serving medium quality food all over the country (including The Grove, which has been a staple of SF for 20 years). If you were ordering $25 ravioli plates at the counter, that would be a different story. Or, they could focus on restaurants that have moved to counter service as they've expanded (like Hawker Faire, or apparently Dosa). But to spend most of the article making a big deal about Souvla being counter service makes it a misleading waste of time.
- toomanybeersies 8y agoI don't think this is really a particularly new concept. I think that there are two factors that have fuelled the rise of this type of restaurant. The first is that people are eschewing more formal dining for casual joints. When was the last time anyone went on a date to an actual fine dining establishment? Let alone gone to one with friends. Secondly, this isn't fine dining dressing down, but rather greasy spoons dressing up. Souva just looks like a hipster version of a the kebab shop around the corner from me run by an old Lebanese bloke. A lot of these places, for better or worse, are ethnic food joints that are owned and operated by white people (to put it bluntly). I've seen a lot of these pop up recently. They're a hipster, more expensive version of traditional ethnic food. Vietnamese and Chinese seem to be particularly popular.
- TheChaplain 8y ago> When was the last time anyone went on a date to an actual fine dining establishment? Last night actually with my wife to a very nice french restaurant, something we do once a week. We live in a cramped apartment without space for a dining table, these moments are very cherished because we get to sit face to face in a nice environment with good food.
- dragonwriter 8y ago> When was the last time anyone went on a date to an actual fine dining establishment? Let alone gone to one with friends. Anyone? I'm going to take zero risk of being wrong and say “within the last hour”. To both questions. This may not be something that happens in your social circle, but it is certainly something that happens regularly.
- skoutus 8y agoAm I the only person who prefer to get the drinks myself without a waiter? I don't even like it when someone pour drinks for me, especially not when they are compelled do it because their livelihood depends on it. Unless it's an event where I feel under pressure to appear "stately", I don't prefer to have people waiting on me at all, so I feel this is what all restaurants should try to do.