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You need to tackle this stuff early on. Here in Norway sweets are banned from pre-school and school in lunch boxes, including for birth days. There are no pre-s
by jernfrost 8y ago
You need to tackle this stuff early on. Here in Norway sweets are banned from pre-school and school in lunch boxes, including for birth days. There are no pre-school or school celebrations involving sweets.
The kids get involved early in learning about healthy food making and we get a cook book about what sort of food one should make for children when they start school.
This is something so serious for people's future and life that I don't think one can focus enough on it.
- sudhirj 8y agoCan you link to the rules / cookbook if available?
- jernfrost 8y agoI'll check with my wife later what the title was and if they got it online.
- sgc 8y agoThanks, I am curious as well.
- jernfrost 8y agoHere is a link to the current version: http://www.kagge.no/index.cfm?tmpl=butikk&a=product_inline&b_kid=98232&b_id=1195599 http://www.kagge.no/index.cfm?tmpl=butikk&a=product_inline&b... The description is in Norwegian but I can give a quick summary: It gives recipes for breakfast, lunch boxes, food for hiking trips (hiking is very common in Norway), dinner, supper and snacks. The recipes are simple and tasty. There are discussion of what is healthy and what one should eat. It has different authors. One of the co-authors is Rune Blomhoff who is nutritional science professor at university of Oslo and one of the leading researchers in the world on anti-oxydants. In our book there are discussion for each dish what part of the food making the kids can participate in. It is to encourage children to learn about food themselves and get used to making healthy food themselves.
- sudhirj 8y agoThanks. A bit disappointed that I can't find an English version, but will keep my eyes open.
- yodsanklai 8y ago> Here in Norway sweets are banned from pre-school and school in lunch boxes This seems reasonable. I remember seeing 'Supersize me' where kids were fed with junk food (e.g. pizza, chocolate bars, sodas) at school. Is that representative of American schools or did they pick the worst ones to make their point?
- yjftsjthsd-h 8y agoI am told that 'Supersize me' was a complete sham in its primary claims, so I would be sceptical. EDIT: Okay, since I'm not on mobile now, relevant link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Size_Me#Counter-claims https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Size_Me#Counter-claims
- agildehaus 8y agoI hate that movie. If you eat more than your resting metabolic rate and calories burned through activity you gain weight. Surprise! I personally have lost 55 lbs since January 25th of this year and McDonalds hamburgers and fudge sundaes have been a meal frequently.
- toomanybeersies 8y agoThe McDouble/hamburger diet is a legitimate diet. You can dial in exactly how many calories you're eating. To prove a point a few years back, I ate nothing but pizza and diet Pepsi for several weeks and lost weight. 2 supermarket pizzas was something like 1800 calories.
- scandinavegan 8y agoIn Sweden, sweets and ice cream are banned at my kids' pre-school and school through the official system, but then a kid will move and have an ice cream sending-off celebration or an instructor switches jobs and does the same. Also, we just had celebrations for the start of summer vacations, with cookies and lemonade. So the ban is definitely not the complete ban that I would like, since they make constant exceptions for individuals to bring their own stuff and even serve it themselves on special occasions. Both school and pre-school make it sound like they don't allow sweets, so it's very disingenuous. At least they're not served lemonade daily for lunch, and the afternoon snack is fruit.
- codebolt 8y agoAs a Norwegian, I just want to add that Swedish candy shops are insane. I find it strange that your country doesn't have a lot more diabetic/obese people. Somebody has to be keeping those stores in business?
- hrnnnnnn 8y agoAlso the fika culture is pretty ubiquitous, at my office there's almost always some cake lying around in the kitchens.
- kevin_thibedeau 8y ago> Somebody has to be keeping those stores in business? All the adults who were deprived in childhood.
- silvestrov 8y agoSome of the candy shops in Denmark seems to be used for money laundering. Most candy is cheap to buy in volume and you just discard it rather than handing it to customers. Everything looks fine in the books. You just don't have as many customers in the shop as the accounting books says you have. You will have to pay tax on the laundered money but that can be a small price for making the money fully legal and usable for e.g. house loans.
- kzrdude 8y ago
- tenpies 8y ago> The kids get involved early in learning about healthy food making and we get a cook book about what sort of food one should make for children when they start school. How frequently is this curriculum revised and how are updates communicated to children after they graduate from that course/class/curriculum? I'm mostly curiously because of how dietary research has changed and because there is little consensus on what a "bad" diet is. Almost everyone will agree to avoid sugar and processed food, but that's about where it ends. You also have to factor in individual genetics and lifestyle, although perhaps less so in countries like Norway where there would be a common genetic ancestry.
- jernfrost 8y agoIt isn't super detailed as far as I remember. It is more about the really obvious stuff like eating less processed and whole foods. So e.g. they will make whole grain bread, cut raw vegtables, maybe make vegtable soup, avoid stuff with lots of added sugar. As far as I know the debate about health eating has centered around how much carbo hydrates we should eat and the role of fat. But I think eating less processed food, more whole grain and less sugar has always been accepted wisdom about healthy eating. We Norwegians probably eat a bit much bread and potatoes and should probably eat more vegtables and alternatives such as beans, lentils etc. However I think we've been fairly good at avoiding too much sweets in the diet.
- pofilat 8y agoThere's a lot of confusion around nutrition, but the badness of sugar and goodness of water is just about the most consensus we have.
- akerro 8y ago>celebrations involving sweets. Do kids bring carrots?
- jernfrost 8y agoThey don't celebrate by eating anything. They do activities instead. The focus is on the child who get a crown and gets to sit in this silly little royal chair or something. Not sure exactly how it works, but the kids are apparently very proud of it. I've only seen the pictures from when my son has had the crown
- pofilat 8y agoAre you insinuating that since carrots have sugar content, we should eat cupcakes with abandon?
- sevensor 8y agoThose toddlers' parents may not have received the greatest nutrition education. In the 1980s, ketchup was famously declared a vegetable (despite being mostly sugar). Anecdotally, as a child in the U.S. during that era, I remember being marked wrong on a nutrition worksheet where I identified milkshakes as a dessert. No, my teacher insisted. Milkshakes aren't dessert. They're dairy.
- watwut 8y agoIf I create milkshake from milk and fruit only is that still desert? That is how they are done around here.
- xeromal 8y agoWe'd call that a shake in the US, but not a milkshake. My gut tells me there is a distinction. You can drink a "shake" after the gym, but a milkshake with a burger and fries. Our milkshakes will have other additives such as malt, vanilla extract, and some sweetener.
- benrbray 8y agoI would call it a smoothie, not a shake. To me a shake is a smoothie with ice cream in it.
- jm547ster 8y agoThat's a Fruitmilk
- Frondo 8y agoI'd call that a smoothie and still treat it as a dessert. Fruits are pretty sugary and very much an "after a meal and in moderation" thing for me.
- koolba 8y ago> No, my teacher insisted. Milkshakes aren't dessert. They're dairy. Ha! I suppose fruit roll ups[1] are also "fruit" then right? [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_roll_up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_roll_up
- frockington 8y agoThat sounds dystopian. Does the government also ban adults from eating certain foods or just children?
- Bizarro 8y agoIt is dystopian. And like clockwork, the top comment is about the state banning something, other statists/authoritarians here on HN applauding the effort, and your comment getting downvoted. I wonder when the state will ban sugar from the homes too. These people don't understand what they're asking for - like the frog in boiling water.
- dopamean 8y agoYou think this comment makes you sound smart. Like you know something "these people" don't. Really it just makes you sound out of touch with reality.
- moorhosj 8y agoAre all laws that limit the rights of children dystopian? Should 5 year-olds have voting rights, access to jobs or the ability to buy alcohol and tobacco?
- jernfrost 8y agoHow is it dystopian to tell parents that if you give your kids candy it makes the job for other parents much harder, since now their kids will fuzz about getting candy too? It is just about people agreeing to common sensible rules for the benefit of everybody. It is about showing consideration for other people.
- moorhosj 8y agoHow is it dystopian? We ban kids from doing plenty of things we deem unsafe in the US. We don't let them drive, go to the store alone, drink alcohol, buy guns, get married, buy cigarettes, watch certain movies, play certain video games, get jobs, etc. Knowing what we know about the long term impact of high-sugar diets, is it really that much of a stretch to limit intake?
- 8y ago
- beezle 8y agoThat is kind of frightening - why stop at school? Why not have Sweets Inspectors checking up on parents in their home? And talk about taking the fun out of any celebrations. Does Norway also ban fruit juice?
- fmihaila 8y ago> That is kind of frightening - why stop at school? Why not have Sweets Inspectors checking up on parents in their home? And talk about taking the fun out of any celebrations. I see what you're saying, but considering the exploding rates of obesity for children in the U.S., maybe dialling down some of that "fun" is necessary. There is overwhelming evidence that overconsumption of sugar is very unhealthy and fits the profile for addiction. I started looking at sugar the way I look at alcohol: to be consumed in minimal amounts, if at all. If one takes that view, measures such as those in Norway don't seem that extreme anymore.
- DanBC 8y ago> overconsumption of sugar is very unhealthy Yes. > and fits the profile for addiction Sugar doesn't really fit the profile for addiction, which requires tolerance, preoccupation, seeking, and not stopping even though you know it's harmful. Sugar hits maybe one or two of those, but rarely all four.
- fmihaila 8y ago> Sugar doesn't really fit the profile for addiction, which requires tolerance, preoccupation, seeking, and not stopping even though you know it's harmful. It sure does. Tolerance manifests itself as insulin resistance. Preoccupation starts as soon as the blood glucose level drops, which happens at regular intervals on carbohydrate-rich diets, manifesting itself as cravings. Seeking is just a trip to the vending machine, and choosing the crepes and the donuts over the eggs and salads. Not stopping even though you know it's harmful? The struggle to fix one's diet is one of the hardest and most likely to fail as far as addictions go, as can be seen in the ever-increasing diabetes and obesity rates in the general population. It's certainly not because of a lack of awareness, even though a lot of people (and doctors) still think low-fat diets are the key to success.
- dopamean 8y agoMichelle Obama suggested that kids eat apples at school and people here lost their shit over it. I'd love it if we banned sweets in schools but I just don't see it happening.
- rkuykendall-com 8y agoImagine the public reaction to Melania suggest that kids eat apples at school, and I think you'll agree that outrage had nothing to do with nutrition in schools. There would be a very small amount of praise from the right, a very small amount of jokes about her being a phone-it-in first lady from the left, and both would be overshadowed by an overwhelming amount of indifference by everyone.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- mrguyorama 8y agoYou seem to underestimate the utter hatred that still exists for the Obamas from those who lean to the right. My brother has convinced himself that she is entirely responsible for a 180 degree change in school lunch policy from delicious homemade health food to trash and low quality, despite both me and my mother (WHO WAS A TEACHER AT THAT VERY SCHOOL AT THE TIME) explaining to him how it has nearly always been that low quality. MAGA is about delusion
- forapurpose 8y ago> Imagine the public reaction to Melania suggest that kids eat apples at school It's just an assumption to say that both sides are the same. Barbara and Laura Bush, for example, were not demonized like Hillary Clinton and Michelle Obama.
- diogenescynic 8y agoI think you misread OP’s comment—they’re not saying both sides are the same. Moreover, generally democrats don’t stoop as low as republicans. Republicans attacked Chelsea Clinton when she was like 11—Rush Limbaugh was calling her ugly. Can you imagine any democrats calling Barron ugly or something as vicious? How about how Fox News harassed Obama’s kids? You’d never see that on CNN. Republicanism is a morally bankrupt ideology.
- kevin_b_er 8y agoWe've tried. In 2011, USDA tried to improve the school lunch requirements involving pizza sauce being a vegetable, but Congress blocked it all in an appropriations bill: https://www.congress.gov/bill/112th-congress/house-bill/2112/text https://www.congress.gov/bill/112th-congress/house-bill/2112... The USDA is now prohibited from not treating pizza sauce as a vegetable, at the behest of corporate food companies like ConAgra. https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2011/11/15/142360146/pizza-as-a-vegetable-it-depends-on-the-sauce https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2011/11/15/142360146/pi...
- jernfrost 8y agoWe don't actually have school lunches. The only thing they got usually is that kids can eat vegetables for free. But that is really just for snacking, you need to bring your own lunch box. That is why there isn't that much nutritional standards for our schools, it is more about guides for parents. Not only do we get the cookbook for parents, but we are also offered free lectures about nutrition and healthy eating for children. That is an offer all first time parents get. So you can go in the evening and listen to a nutritional expert talk about what sort of food is good for children. I remember the nutritional expert that held a lecture for me was really cool. She said, that to her, there was no bad food. Instead it was about how much you ate of different kinds of foods. She wanted to emphasize the the problem for most people is that they eat the wrong quantities of different types of foods. E.g. she mentioned how we eat too much red meat, but that we should not cut it out entirely because it contains many useful things such as iron. Eat red meat once or twice a week I think she said.
- philwelch 8y ago> We don't actually have school lunches And this is the real kicker. Norway is a relatively affluent country with a comprehensive social safety net and a relatively homogenous culture. Here in the US, we have too many children living in poverty, often with single parents and broken families, who would never bring their own lunchbox in the first place. School lunch is a necessity, otherwise a lot of kids would go hungry and not be able to learn anything. Norway also doesn't have a huge domestic agriculture sector with outsized political power, and school lunch is a really nice subsidy for them as well.
- SilasX 8y agoIIRC, US schools are phasing out whole milk in favor of skim chocolate milk, based on the old "fat bad carbs okay" theory.