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Alternatives to Google Products

• nemothekid 8y ago
  I'm a little discouraged when I see articles like this that seem to be completely tuned for developers or look over completely decent pro-privacy alternatives like Apple. For example, the "best" calendar alternative is Etar which looks to a Github repo. Really? At the very least you could mention Apple Calendar. Is Maps.Me (which uses AdSense) really better than Apple Maps? I'm not a fan of hooktube either - it just further cements YouTube's monopoly. I think what what bothers me is that "privacy focused" tends to be conflated with FOSS. I'm really thankful for organizations like Mozilla and Signal that are trying to deliver privacy focused applications to real people. However I also think we should recognize Apple-like companies who are also privacy focused without necessarily being FOSS. I think that will help move more non-technical people out of central databases.
  • stef25 8y ago
    > Maps.Me Has several useful functions like being able to pre-download specific countries or parts of specific countries. Many mapping apps work offline but the way Maps.me lets you specifically pick & choose areas = more user friendly. It uses Openstreetmaps which I've found to work amazingly well in areas where you wouldn't expect (it has off-road trails in remote areas of Vietnam for example) via iTunes I can also import gpx tracks (or gpx converted to kml, I forget) for things like mountainbike routes, which works super well.
  • AtomicOrbital 8y ago
    I am on linux ... just tried Apple Maps - horrid ... it fails to permit location search by zip code ... just show the globe and let me zoom around - fail ... forced me to login - fail ... unable to enter arbitrary address - talk about slurping personal data ... unbelievably evil
    • saagarjha 8y ago
      What are you going on about? Apple Maps does all of those things, without asking for login information.
  • lev99 8y ago
    I thought it was strange bing was not mentioned, even though it has Mozilla's endorsement of having a better privacy policy than Google[0] and is probably the most popular alternative to search in the United States. This far from a complete list of Google alternatives. [0]https://www.pcworld.com/article/184520/mozilla_endorses_bing_over_google_privacy_issues.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/184520/mozilla_endorses_bing...
    • miguelrochefort 8y ago
      As much as I like Microsoft, Bing is awful. Ive used it, and I tried to like it. It can't find anything.
      • mtgx 8y ago
        It was also disappointing to hear recently one of their developers say that they mostly just copy what Google is doing to keep up.
      • lev99 8y ago
        I find bing to be better than any other Google alternatives.
        • auslander 8y ago
          agree
        • Godel_unicode 8y ago
          It would be possible for you and your parent comment to be correct simultaneously.
      • astronautjones 8y ago
        Bing's video search (particularly for porn) is the best in the business.
        • beagle3 8y ago
  • theamk 8y ago
    I don't see that in the article. Search, email, drive, youtube, maps all have many non-FOSS entries. I am fairly sure that no apple product is mentioned because replacing all the hardware one has just for more privacy is likely too extreme for many. Not to mention that one of the biggest things you can do for your privacy is ad-blocking / cookie cleaning, and apple does not make it easier at all.
    • auslander 8y ago
      > biggest things you can do for your privacy is ad-blocking / cookie cleaning Very true. But there is no problem with apple, in fact Safari is first browser that is clearing cookies - ITP(2). I use uBlock Origin on Safari and Private browsing - no cookies at all.
      • IncRnd 8y ago
        Firefox has been able to clear cookies like that for years without any extensions.
        • systoll 8y ago
          Firefox has an option to block all third party cookies in the manner similar to Safari 1-10's default behaviour. And like everything else, it lets you clear all cookies at once, or manually look through the cookies to clear them. It does not have a feature analogous to safari 11+'s tracking prevention.
          • majewsky 8y ago
            What about the tracking prevention that Private Mode has had since FF 42 or so?
            • systoll 8y ago
              Firefox’s tracking protection is the same feature as Safari’s content blockers. [the defaults differ, though], and prevents specific listed domains from loading anything. Except when it turns out blocking them breaks too much. Like Youtube embeds. Safari’s tracking prevention applies to things that do wind up getting loaded, and limits access to their own cookies/context. [kind of like loading all those embeds in seperate private sessions, even though they're on the same page]
  • z_free 8y ago
    But then you have no protection against Apple, privacy wise.
  • swetabhsuman007 8y ago
    14M Users affected by Facebook Privacy Bug that makes Posts Public
  • zavi 8y ago
    Apple is a US based company. The point of this post is to try and hurt American hegemony in tech and promote European alternatives. Europe desperately needs it given a dangerously old population and increasing irrelevance of its tech industry, with GDPR being yet another populist nail in the coffin. Method of choice is thru soft power - swaying opinions on HN, Reddit, Facebook, and other social media.
  • amelius 8y ago
    Apple is closed source, so we really don't know if they respect our privacy now, and in the future. Also, they may work with the US government, even if they say otherwise, and people from both the US and other countries may not like that idea.
  • cosmojg 8y ago
    It's not that "privacy-focused" tends to be conflated with FLOSS. Rather, it's nearly impossible to guarantee privacy in proprietary software. The transparency of FLOSS makes it trustless. Want to know what data of yours, if any, is being collected? Look at the code. This is why, when it comes to privacy, Apple isn't worth consideration. All we have is their word, and that simply isn't enough.
    • citrablue 8y ago
      This is true iff you look through the code yourself, or are willing to trust that others have done so in as thorough a manner as your use case (attack vectors) necessitate. Apple isn't worth consideration if you are willing to put in the effort, or delegate trust, to other systems. If you'd prefer to delegate trust to them, how is that effectively different that FOSS that you haven't examined?
      • extralego 8y ago
        Incentive. When devs announce how their software handles privacy concerns, they have an incentive to be honest because all it takes is one discovery of conflicting code and their trust is lost. But if the code is closed source, that incentive for honesty is removed. Of course the media can still seek circumstantial evidence and make accusations, but that’s a far cry from version control. Separately, closed source code invites new incentives to disrespect user privacy for profit. So, there are these two major categories involved, both of which are mitigated by opening the source code. Apple remains liable for both of them. All that Apple has is an observation that they sell hardware too. I guess we are just assuming they already make enough money from advertising as it is and don’t really want more. I think there is a significant difference.
        • millstone 8y ago
          Companies get hit with multi-million dollar fines for violating their privacy policies. So there's your incentive. I just don't see open source as better protecting privacy. See for example the telemetry in .NET Core or VS Code [1]. Users discover this stuff by watching network traffic, not through code audits. 1: https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/16131 https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/16131
  • anonu 8y ago
    I don't disagree that Apple looks really good nowadays from a privacy perspective. They treat their customers with respect and don't sell their data.... until they do. How can you trust a single point of failure to "do no evil"?
    • flafla2 8y ago
      Apple doesn't have the data that Google et al has. All of the ML that apple does for example is done on-device or is privatized [0]. This goes for all of their services that Google has built their business off of: Messages, Siri, Maps, etc. People don't respect Apple's security because they trust Apple, they respect it because Apple has intentionally shot themselves in the foot if they wished to sell their data in the future. [0] https://machinelearning.apple.com/2017/12/06/learning-with-privacy-at-scale.html https://machinelearning.apple.com/2017/12/06/learning-with-p...
      • mirimir 8y ago
        > Apple doesn't have the data that Google et al has. Huh? Apple potentially has everything on the device, just as Microsoft does. Maybe they don't touch it, at least intentionally, out of respect (or just prudence). But if I recall correctly, they accidentally logged all Safari URLs for a while.
        • IncRnd 8y ago
          iPhone also sent geolocation coordinate files to Apple, until that was discovered. As you point out, there is a lot more than just the superficial concept of privacy, such as the Prism program that had/has a pipeline into Apple data. Like any large company, there are competing forces of strategically enforcing privacy and treating data in a way that doesn't respect privacy.
        • sam_goody 8y ago
          Chrome has search and url in the same bar, and therefore needs to log all urls you enter (and their metadata) for the sake of logging all searches. Absolutely benign, right? Safari shares the same url/search bar, but I have not read their license. Would be pretty surprised if they are not logging all URLs.
  • trumped 8y ago
    It's better to host your own content if you want to have a better chance at privacy.
  • thdxr 8y ago
    There is a difference between privacy by charity and privacy by design
  • _emacsomancer_ 8y ago
    I know it's not exactly your point, but Etar is pretty nice, and apparently is cross-platform (Android & iOS - which I didn't know), and exists on F-Droid (https://f-droid.org/en/packages/ws.xsoh.etar/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/ws.xsoh.etar/), Google Play (it seems somehow wrong to link to the Google Play Store given the context, but it's easy to find there anyway), and Apple's App Store (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/etar/id1217625781?mt=8 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/etar/id1217625781?mt=8). I think OsmAnd(~) [https://f-droid.org/en/packages/net.osmand.plus/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/net.osmand.plus/] is probably a better choice than Maps.Me. Given that alternatives to Google products are largely services rather than software run locally on one's own machine, you're probably right about the partial orthogonality of FOSS here since it can be hard to verify that the remote server is in fact running the software it claims it is, and from a privacy-standpoint it may be somewhat irrelevant (I recall even the FSF said something of the sort).
    • bubblethink 8y ago
      There is a fork of maps.me on f-droid that strips out analytics/ads/proprietary bits. It's called omim (https://gitlab.com/axet/omim https://gitlab.com/axet/omim).
      • _emacsomancer_ 8y ago
        On F-Droid it's just called Maps though: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.github.axet.maps/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.github.axet.maps/
  • izacus 8y ago
    Apple iCloud privacy policy mirrors Google's. You gain absolutely nothing if you upload your contacts, photos and other data to iCloud. Apple also regularly gives iCloud data dumps to US government (they approved and delivered data in about 80% of US Government requests in 2017: https://www.macrumors.com/2018/05/25/apple-second-2017-transparency-report/ https://www.macrumors.com/2018/05/25/apple-second-2017-trans... ) (The exceptions here are iMessage and phone backups which are E2E encrypted.)
    • nemothekid 8y ago
      You mentioned the exceptions - both of which didn't happen 5 years ago. Is it crazy to believe that we may have Tarnsap-like storage from Apple in a few years. Side note: I don't think Apple will ever encrypt iCloud iPhone backups because that would make it difficult to use them (how would you restore an iPhone backup to a new device if your old one was incinerated? Your private key would be gone)
      • oarsinsync 8y ago
        Best I can tell, they already encrypt a whole load more and are ready to encrypt everything. When setting up a new iPhone, I’m asked to enter my Apple ID, password, approve via an existing device, provide 2FA and then provide the PIN or password of that existing device. After all that, access is granted. To me, this suggests they’re already encrypting in such a way that while it may be brute force-able, it’s unlikely to be data they can read by default.
    • alsetmusic 8y ago
      > You gain absolutely nothing if you upload your contacts, photos and other data to iCloud. This seems so deliberately wrong that I shouldn’t respond, but I will. Quick and easy synchronization of contacts, calendars, and photos are all features that I appreciate. What’s more, my fearful-of-technology brother tells me how useful they are to him. He mentioned photo sync as a benefit only a few days ago.
      • ariwilson 8y ago
  • IloveHN84 8y ago
    But Apple services are still not privacy focused services and for most of them, you have to use an Apple device, which is still less than 10% of PC market and less than 30% of mobile one.
  • throwaway13456 8y ago
    >alternatives like Apple I would never trust Apple because they have consistently lied and cheated me - For instance, they throttled the speed on my iPhone, they hid the fact that my iPhone has more probability to bend and finally, as a cherry on top, they refused to honor warranty for a design flaw of theirs. When they realized they fault, instead of making a free replacement, they charged me $30 for it. Given all these experienced with Apple, to my eyes, Apple is no different than Google and I wouldn't trust any word of theirs as they've consistently been exposed time and again lying to consumers. So, I don't know where you got the idea of Apple being "entitled" to be in that list, but I'd say it's the right thing that they aren't. >pro-privacy alternatives like Apple I don't believe this. There is no evidence to support this as Apple runs on proprietary code. And you and I don't have access to the source code, so we have no idea what's going on on their servers. Ever wondered how Apple gets its data for its Apple maps? For all you know, they could be collecting your location information to build their database. Isn't that a privacy violation? I work in the Analytics industry, inside an iPhone, using Charles proxy, you'll be able to see random requests hit Apple's servers from time to time. For all you know, this could be info about you. You can't prove it nor disprove it. I would never dare put all my trust into a single for-profit corporation whose sole goal is to maximize revenues and has been consistently exposed for unethical practices to its customers. So, hope that answers why Apple isn't exactly a consideration. [1] http://bgr.com/2017/12/28/iphone-battery-apple-apology-letter-battery-replacement/ http://bgr.com/2017/12/28/iphone-battery-apple-apology-lette... [2] https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/5/24/17389220/apple-bendgate-internal-documents-iphone-6-plus https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/5/24/17389220/a... [3] https://9to5mac.com/2018/06/07/class-action-lawsuit-apple-watch/ https://9to5mac.com/2018/06/07/class-action-lawsuit-apple-wa...
    • nemothekid 8y ago
      >And you and I don't have access to the source code, so we have no idea what's going on on their servers Consider this: for 90% of the population, that is also true of any FOSS solution. I'm tired of the "you don't have access to the source code" argument. I don't inspect the microcode that runs on my CPU - why should I trust Intel and not Apple? And for a greater portion of the population, that source code may as well be mud. This article is about alternatives to Google on the basis of privacy. Isn't a company that doesn't base its core business model on mining your data an improvement for a vast majority of users?
  • dmos62 8y ago
    I've been using startpage.com to search Google anonymously for the past year. Startpage proxies your query to google and back while leaving off the identifying metadata, making the query anonymous. At first you notice the slight increase in roundtrip time, but quickly get used to it. I find Google Search to have a better search engine than any alternative I've tried, so Startpage is right up my alley.
  • syshum 8y ago
    I trust nothing I can not verify...
  • Fnoord 8y ago
    You are seeing a problem where there is none. Etar is just a fork of Google Calendar, and you can find it in Play Store / F-Droid (which is linked from the mentioned GitHub page).
  • rcMgD2BwE72F 8y ago
    >Is Maps.Me (which uses AdSense) really better than Apple Maps? The "Maps (F Droid)" alternative suggested before the Maps.me app is a fork of Maps.Me that doesn't include any tracker/ad. It works pretty well although I've had a few issues logging into my OSM account and it takes a little too long to navigate "up" from a place search. It also features a GPS track recording function that Maps.Me lacks (AFAIK). It's really great and deserves more contributions!
• timwis 8y ago
  Anyone know of an alternative email client that sorts your mail intelligently into promotions, updates, forums, primary like Gmail does? That's had such a positive impact on my productivity I can't leave it behind (I've tried).
  • ishansharma 8y ago
    Spark for macOS and iOS can do something similar for any mail accessible via IMAP/POP/Exchange.
    • dibstern 8y ago
      Spark is notoriously bad for privacy. This is a really poor recommendation given the article.
      • ishansharma 8y ago
        I am not aware of Readdle doing anything bad or having a bad reputation. How is it bad for privacy, just asking because I’m a regular user and would switch if it’s not good for privacy.
        • sigzero 8y ago
          Your stuff goes through their servers to allow some of the features of Spark to work. Some people do not like that. https://sparkmailapp.com/privacy https://sparkmailapp.com/privacy
  • citrablue 8y ago
    It's pretty easy (less than 2 hours work per quarter) to build your own filtering system that works similarly effectively. Google built a bunch of ML systems that work by default for everyone. Personally, I just have a bunch of filters setup that do the same thing. Has taken minimal effort but some discipline to file incoming emails based on my own patterns.
    • 8y ago
• miguelrochefort 8y ago
  What's wrong with data collection and tracking? Privacy seems extremely overrated here on HN. Am I missing something? Why would anyone take such efforts to avoid using Google products? That doesn't seem very rational...
  • droidist2 8y ago
    I'm actually more worried about Google banning my account and every service along with it, and having no way to get it back or even speak to a human about it because I don't have a large Twitter following or a buddy that works at Google.
    • dcd0101 8y ago
      That sounds like a reasonable concern. I generally worry more about alternative options being bought by someone else, or languishing / deprecation. In either case, the subject of a decent article might be: setting up automated exports from service features like Takeout, to mitigate the risk of personal service account closures and disruptions.
  • grzm 8y ago
    There are plenty of discussions on HN (including ones where you've participated) regarding privacy. Different people value privacy differently (and privacy means different things to different people). You may not value it as much as others, and that's fine. Ignoring this as you have here with what appears to be a naïve question amounts to trolling. Please don't.
    • miguelrochefort 8y ago
      I recognize that other people value privacy more than I do. I also recognize that privacy is unsustainable and unlikely to survive in the future. I see people seeking privacy as I see technophobes. I'm sure they're genuinely concerned, but I can't help but think they're mistaken. I think it's important to change their minds, as they're otherwise making the transition to a post-privacy world very difficult. I've asked this question many times before, and nobody managed to explain how privacy would survive through the next 100 years of technological progress. That alone makes me think privacy is not a long-term solution. Only a handful of people have clarified their position in defense of privacy as temporary and pragmatic (as opposed to ideal). They think that privacy is bad, but they prefer it to the alternative given today's context. I can appreciate this position, and I find it a lot more reasonable than the usual "privacy is good" most people seem to blindly accept. Ultimately, I'd like to discuss strategies to make the transition to a post-privacy world smoother. This whole pro-privacy sentiment makes it very difficult.
• auslander 8y ago
  Add Safari for browser, iCloud Drive and iCloud for email, to complete the list.
  • bitmapbrother 8y ago
    Unless you live in China. In that case the Chinese government has full unfettered access to your iCloud Drive data and iCloud email.
    • auslander 8y ago
      If you live in China its game over anyway :) Get a VPN, somehow, and create non-Chinese iCloud accounts. Always on VPN is actually a good thing everywhere.
      • deadcast 8y ago
        Haha yeah I'm going to get express vpn now thanks to this article. I can also pay with bitcoin! Yes! :)
        • auslander 8y ago
          Good VPN is like treasure hunt :) gist.github.com/kennwhite/1f3bc4d889b02b35d8aa
        • mirimir 8y ago
          But ExpressVPN does admit to keeping > connection logs including the date of the connection (not the time) and the server used. The total amount of data transferred per user is also monitored. ExpressVPN doesn’t log your IP but the connection logs are tied to the user account.[0] 0) https://www.comparitech.com/vpn/vpn-logging-policies/ https://www.comparitech.com/vpn/vpn-logging-policies/
      • kaptain 8y ago
        Always on VPN hinders my productivity. I live in China and sometimes the VPN connection stalls so while the my operating system indicates it is active, packets aren't being sent/received (I'm on macOS/iOS). Resetting my VPN connection does the trick, but my point is that VPNs aren't stable in China. I need them but I'm annoyed when data isn't pushed/pulled when I expect it to be.
• RomanPushkin 8y ago
  Also: Awesome AWS alternatives https://github.com/ro31337/awesome-aws-alternatives https://github.com/ro31337/awesome-aws-alternatives
• fencepost 8y ago
  Perhaps I'm off base, but there's an awful lot of other tracking possible by Google - how many sites are pulling fonts, compressed JS libraries, etc from Google but don't have a referer policy defined? Decentraleyes and the like may help, but are they foolproof?
• JulienRbrt 8y ago
  I am personally using an often not mentioned solution. I use Gandi.net as registrar for my domain name and they provide email hosting[1], CalDav and CardDav with it. They even have a web interface (using SoGo[2]). So all my emails, contacts and calendars are properly managed[3] by a French company. [1] https://www.gandi.net/en/domain/email https://www.gandi.net/en/domain/email [2] https://sogo.nu/ https://sogo.nu/ [3] https://www.gandi.net/en/no-bullshit https://www.gandi.net/en/no-bullshit
• hellofunk 8y ago
  I switched to DuckDuckGo for a while, and noticed I was having trouble finding things. When I then compared specific searches with Google, it was clear to me that I was getting a superior quality of searches with Google. This disappoints me. I would gladly prefer the alternative, but I can’t add many minutes to my day of work trying to find stuff that should be easy.
  • SOLAR_FIELDS 8y ago
    Advice here is to toss the !g bang on when you think you aren’t getting what you need. AFAIK this is still better than using google itself because the search is from DDG’s servers and not your personal IP (I could be wrong here though)
    • GLjEI4YbnGD27LB 8y ago
      I was tossing !g in to so many searches that I eventually just switched back to google from duckduckgo and startpage.
    • worez 8y ago
      The !g bang just redirects to you Google with the search query.
• swetabhsuman007 8y ago
  14M Users affected by Facebook Privacy Bug that makes Posts Public
• robbrown451 8y ago
  So I'm one of those who doesn't care if Google tracks me or sells me as a product. [ * ] Is there actually some real, tangible harm that can come to me from using Google products? Not theoretical stuff, not stuff that is less likely than dying in a plane crash. Something that is actually likely to happen, that will affect me in measurable, negative ways? I'm really trying to come up with something, and I'm really trying to care. * actually I don't agree with that last one: ads are a product of Google, and various things like Gmail are products of Google. The latter is paid for with ad viewings rather than currency. Really, there is no need to redefine "product" to include humans being advertised to and tracked. There was (and I guess is) a thing called "slavery," where humans were bought and sold....my voluntary use of Gmail is not comparable.
  • elminjo 8y ago
    You are right, all US-Companys are able to harm you, due to US-Laws.
  • blub 8y ago
    Has it become some sort of fashion statement to be ignorant about privacy? Whenever I discuss this topic people seem to almost take pride in giving their information to Google, Facebook and the thousands of other companies they have no clue about. I think it's cognitive dissonance rearing its ugly head again: those people have tied their identity at some level with the use of the products and an attack on e.g. Google becomes an attack on them. The concept of fairness also plays a role. Most people feel that Google should get something for providing their services and they also feel that it's ok if they are shown some ads. Fair deal. What they have no idea about is how much data is extracted from them, who it's shared with and for what purposes it's used. But we can be almost certain the answers to those questions is more and more data, more and more parties and more and more purposes, because data is forever. And yes, real harm can come to you if you are promiscuous with your information. Additional information should be accessible through your favourite search engine. Hint: home invasion.
    • bobsoap 8y ago
      I find I'm having trouble arguing in a meaningful way with people who don't share the same concerns regarding the privacy of their data. I'm running out of arguments - no matter what I say, they'll respond with a shrug. "So what? I don't have anything to hide." "So what? They are a big company, surely they won't abuse my data." "So what? How has Cambridge Analytica affected me?" And for the ultimate capitulation: "So what? They already have so much data on everyone, you can't avoid it anyway." Brave new world. This is not only coming from folks with little understanding of tech, but also from "technologically literate" people who should know better. Sticking your head in the sand is just so damn convenient. Even a comparatively widely reported privacy scandal like FB's can't seem to sway these folks... apparently because they feel like it hasn't affected them personally. How do you deal with this kind of attitude?
• teekert 8y ago
  I use Nextcloud (files, contacts, calendar, notes), Firefox on all the things and pay for email. My last "things" are the play store and Google maps, I can't seem to shake them (I love paying for good apps and gmaps is the best nav app imho).
  • tome 8y ago
    Nextcloud looks great! Do they do individual subscriptions? Doesn't seem obvious to me. EDIT: Seems you have to go through a "provider" https://nextcloud.com/providers/ https://nextcloud.com/providers/ I will investigate further. EDIT2: OK, so you can can get a Nextcloud instance through one of these providers. Do you have a recommendation?
    • teekert 8y ago
      I run it on my server in the basement, but you could go for a Digital Ocean droplet, there used to be "one click" installs, but I'm not finding those anymore [0]. There are a lot of tutorials thought you could use. This is my referral link which will get you 10$ and me 25$ [1] (runs a 5$ droplet for 2 months with more than enough specs, if you need more space, that is also easily achieved at DO). Or use this link from Jupiter broadcasting (Linux Unplugged podcast) for a two months 100$ credit [2] (probably there are other codes to getting that 100$ referral discount, this is the one I know). [0] https://www.digitalocean.com/products/one-click-apps/ https://www.digitalocean.com/products/one-click-apps/ [1]https://m.do.co/c/7461df2b7cb9 https://m.do.co/c/7461df2b7cb9 [2] https://do.co/unplugged https://do.co/unplugged
• saintPirelli 8y ago
  Aside from the philosophical argument that is being had in the comment section, there are obvious services missing. Android, for one, because what good are all these alternatives if you run it on a Google OS and then there are the actual moneymakers, namely Adsense/Adwords. What's the alternative for those? Are there any?
  • phito 8y ago
    For Android, there's Lineage OS and microG
• deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
• martin1975 8y ago
  I pay for Google Apps, $5/month and I'm quite certain the anti-privacy factor is drastically reduced vs when one just freeloads their apps where as the OP says, "you are the product."
• zbraniecki 8y ago
  Hi all, I'm an engineer working on Firefox Platform (Gecko). In the linked blog post, the author recommends Firefox (thanks!) and links to a "privacy recommendations" for it, which include items such as "resistFingerprinting" settings. I'd like to remind everyone that turning on this setting has far fetched consequences to how you experience the Web. Your dates, timezones, preferred languages will all be masked which will result in weird experiences. The option is behind a flag and without UI precisely because it is a pretty complex feature, that we didn't iron out yet, and which should be well understood before being used. It concerns me to see it being references and recommended without any explanation whatsoever. Of course I'm likely biased because I'm on the receiving end of bug reports from people who experience the Web in weird languages and with wrong timezones because they followed some tutorial that recommended it. :(
  • chime 8y ago
    Is there a moderate resistFingerprinting setting? I don't mind my date/tz/language being known. There are 150m+ people living in my timezone who use en-US. I don't want my fonts, plugins, user agent, or detailed HW/graphics features (e.g. canvas/WebGL hash) being known. Those can uniquely identify me according to https://panopticlick.eff.org https://panopticlick.eff.org.
    • shawn 8y ago
      Those can uniquely identify me So does your resolution. And that's hard to mask because JS usually needs to know it. If you're not using the browser fullscreen, chances are that you're using a unique innerWidth+innerHeight. As unsatisfying as it is, the current best solution seems to be not to care about privacy most of the time, and then take privacy seriously when you do. Whonix is excellent for this.
      • hueving 8y ago
        Your resolution alone will not likely uniquely identify you. The idea is to eliminate many of the data points that make it easy to track you across IPs. Resolution is very common if you're browsing with a maximized window so it's not in the same league as these others that quickly diverge amongst users.
• dvko 8y ago
  We've been working on something that has yet to be added to this list, but I feel it's worth mentioning. It's a self-hosted OS alternative to Google Analytics, much like Matomo (formerly Piwik) but less focused on developers and way more opinionated in terms of what data is visualized. It's called Fathom Analytics[1]. Eventually we want to provide a paid hosted option much like what Ghost is offering to make sure we can keep on supporting it. For now, our development efforts are paid out of our own pockets. [1] https://usefathom.com/ https://usefathom.com/ [2] https://github.com/usefathom/fathom https://github.com/usefathom/fathom
  • hardwaresofton 8y ago
    Hey wanted to know that I'm super excited to see/use fathom -- I've been using Piwik (now Matomo) for a while, but found that it kinda did too much, envisioned myself writing something like Fathom to scratch the itch, glad I don't have to! :) It looks like fathom has just the stuff I want to see in a nice stripped down view
    • dvko 8y ago
      Hey, that's awesome, we plan not to disappoint. We'll be setting up a public roadmap over the next few weeks so your feedback while we built this would be very much appreciated!
• halflings 8y ago
  > All they do is repackage mass corporate surveillance into convenient, free, trendy applications that suck up all your data. Your private data helps Google dominate the online advertising market. Google has what I think are the most transparent and user friendly controls for visualizing what personal data is collected, and disabling it (most often per product, for ex. disable location history and YouTube viewing history, but enable personalized ads). - For most of the products mentioned in the blogpost (YouTube, Search, ...), people can just go to MyActivity [0] and delete any data they want to. They can also disable data collection here. [1] - Emails received in Gmail are no longer used for advertisement in other Google products, only used for Gmail ads, and features like searching your emails, spam prevention, parsing orders/flights/etc. to display them in the app. Also note that emails received in GSuite ("enterprise Gmail") were never parsed for these purposes. [2] [0] https://myactivity.google.com/ https://myactivity.google.com/ [1] https://myaccount.google.com/activitycontrols https://myaccount.google.com/activitycontrols [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/23/technology/gmail-ads.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/23/technology/gmail-ads.html Important disclaimer: I work at Google [but only voicing my own opinions, as it goes], and only working there because I realize they are doing all they can to respect user privacy.
  • shawn 8y ago
    Google has what I think is the most transparent and user friendly controls for visualizing what personal data is collected, and disabling it (most often per product, for ex. disable location history and YouTube viewing history, but enable personalized ads). I don't think this stops Google from collecting your viewing history. If it did, Youtube recommendations wouldn't work at all, because they would know nothing about what I like or don't like. But I'm pretty sure recommendations work regardless of your settings -- meaning you're being tracked. I happen to like the recommendations, so I don't mind this. But it's a hard problem.
    • halflings 8y ago
      The second link I posted allows you to explicitly disable search and viewing history on YouTube, which also disables recommendations (at least those based on your profile; you will still get recommendations after watching a specific video).
• mvexel 8y ago
  What does Google Chrome track beyond what you can disable under the Privacy and Security settings, when you're not signed in with a Google account?
  • Sylos 8y ago
    1) That's a lot of precursors. Many people want Sync functionality, which Google uses to track your browsing history. And most people don't go through the privacy settings. 2) We don't really know, Chrome is not open-source and it's hard to tell from network traffic, since nowadays pretty much every webpage loads something from a Google server in encrypted form anyways (and with those request, Google could send all kinds of data). 3) For Chromium (which's source code is basis for Google Chrome), this project tries to collect and fix all the privacy-infringing stuff: https://github.com/Eloston/ungoogled-chromium https://github.com/Eloston/ungoogled-chromium 4) There's many ways in which Chrome doesn't actively track you, but infringes on your privacy by just being terrible at protecting it from webpages' tracking. As in millions of lines of code, tens of thousands of design decisions, all made by the biggest tracking company on the planet. No journalist can report about all of these, but it'd be foolish to assume innocence until proven guilty.
• dschuetz 8y ago
  I would like to see more projects that make robust self-hosting easier and friendlier. That would make decentralization of the Internet services actually more fun. Today, only people who basically live inside terminal emulators have a fair chance of correctly configuring and running a server with mail/webdav/www/webindex/dns/git, and all of that with letsencrypt.
• Bucephalus355 8y ago
  Recently I started shelling out $25 a month for a G-Suite account. I wish I could have kept my @gmail email address, as I think your own vanity URL looks a little tacky, but oh well. Anyway, for privacy but also security it’s been amazing. DKIM, DMARC, SPF, and S/MIME for mail. All attachments are executed in a special sandbox before moving to your inbox (delays mail a little bit). None of my personal data / content is scanned or looked at (I think?). Plenty of security rules, alerts, and audits I can set up. Also an actual support phone number I can call for help whenever. Why can’t Google move to a paid model? It’s worked for both Oracle and Microsoft for the last 40 years.
  • chrisper 8y ago
    Why are you paying $25? Isn't it like $5 or $9 per user?
  • deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  • guu 8y ago
    Could you forward your gmail address to your gsuite address and set the gmail address as your reply to?
  • mattnewton 8y ago
    I’m not sure what you mean, isn’t your experience using G Suite as a paid service?
    • deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    • jaredklewis 8y ago
      I think the parent means, why don't they move away from ads in general to get their revenue from paid services, like gsuite.
    • patmorgan23 8y ago
      I think he wants something in between gsuite and free Gmail. A Gmail+ that lets you keep the @gmail address and take out all the spyware.
• auslander 8y ago
  People, turn off automatic content download in your email clients. It immediately leaks when and from where you opened my email. And Search suggestions in browser, when you type into address field.
  • taneq 8y ago
    Are there any clients these days which don't have external content downloading disabled by default?
    • auslander 8y ago
      I know that apple Mail and ProtonMail's are enabled by default. Don't know about others - I don't use them, but I expect it to be same, as defaults are always set for user convenience, not privacy.
      • brightball 8y ago
        Proton’s is definitely not on by default
    • deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
• notafraudster 8y ago
  One thing that I think would be helpful would be some editorial contextualizing how good these products are. A lot of people would like to incorporate privacy into their decision-making calculus, but not to the exclusion of the quality of the experience. In some of these categories, there are great alternatives. In some of these categories, the alternatives are not serious. This comment intersects with nemothekid's great comment below which highlights how there are some major player alternatives which, while they aren't OSS and may have some privacy considerations, probably are still worth mentioning as an alternative to Google.
• mailbomb 8y ago
  Besides the Gmails alternatives: 1. Mailfence – Based in Belgium – 500 MB free; 20 GB Pro 2. Tutanota – Based in Germany – 1 GB free; 10 GB Pro 3. Mailbox.org – Based in Germany – 2 GB storage 4. Protonmail – Based in Switzerland – 500 MB free; 5 GB Pro 5. * * Runbox.com - Based in Norway * * They forgot #5, runbox.com
  • malloryerik 8y ago
    If you use something like protonmail aren't you sending a signal like, "Look at me I've got something to hide!"? If I were role-playing as some mighty and wealthy intelligence bureaucracy, I'd likely monitor anyone using such services as well as Tor, etc. No? I do like protonmail btw and am concerned about privacy in general, esp for the maintenance of democracy. And I'm not at all against the intelligence bureaucracies, presuming that their true goals are... to protect and serve, and that they are law abiding and accountable.
    • sincerely 8y ago
      The more "normal" (bad word but you get what i mean) people using protonmail, the weaker that signal becomes :) Same deal with Tor
      • malloryerik 8y ago
        Yes, agreed.
    • jake_the_third 8y ago
      I think it's more about adhering to ones own values than keeping your mail secure from rouge nation states. For example, I don't use google (except for the occasional search) and use privacy focused products almost exclusively instead. Yet if a government agency decides to violate my privacy, they wont find anything of interest. It's about doing what you can. Besides, using privacy focused products sends a clear signal to companies that privacy is something we want.
    • reshie 8y ago
• tehabe 8y ago
  The worst thing, the absolute worst thing is, you know all that but you have gotten so used to the way Google services work, that you simply have a hard time to switch. E.g. thank to Gmail I rarely use an email application on my computer and use webmail. When I tried out Posteo it was extremely annoying that it logged me out every few minutes and I couldn't get my email. They said this couldn't be changed. Google really did an excellent job of supply me with services which I want to use. Not just tools which are working well. BTW, Google doesn't use all its services to sell or personalise ads. Which doesn't mean they don't use them to learn more about you which in turn is used to improve the services so that you them even more. So as much as I wish I could restore my privacy by leaving Google, I think Google knows me too well that I won't for now.
  • auslander 8y ago
    > use webmail ... Posteo logged me out every few minutes Lets me assume, that you're always logged in. Google thanks you for that, much easier to link this browser's history and searches to your account.
  • godzillabrennus 8y ago
    I haven’t found a replacement for Gmail yet. I’ve tried fastmail and ProtonMail but both have limitations. From a search engine perspective I’ve switched to DuckDuckGo and I’m impressed with how good it has gotten. With maps I’ve tried various solutions including mapquest, Microsoft, and Apple but nothing comes close to Google Maps.
    • dheera 8y ago
      I'm definitely on the hunt for a Gmail replacement, considering I have been hearing things such as a snapchat-esque disappearing emails, unprintable emails, and other similar stupid ideas. I decide what to do with emails and other data sent to me thank you.
      • icebraining 8y ago
        Using another service won't help you; when someone uses those features, Gmail only sends an email with a link to see the actual message: https://techcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/rgmail1.png https://techcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/rgmail1.pn...
• deadcast 8y ago
  I've enjoyed fastmail for many years as an alternative to gmail. I've never once had any issues with them and their UI has been very responsive. They also give you a MASSIVE list of domain names to choose from! ^_^
  • geowwy 8y ago
    I'm in the process of switching over to fastmail. I'm pretty happy with it so far.
  • jamiepenney 8y ago
    I started using fastmail for my business domain, it's going pretty good so far.
  • bthrm 8y ago
    Unfortunately, Fastmail is very expensive.
    • kungtotte 8y ago
      $50 per year for what is arguably one of the most important services/tools you use? That's not very expensive to me.
    • geowwy 8y ago
      $3/month is quite reasonable
    • innocenat 8y ago
      Expensive? It's cheaper than G-Suite...
    • brongondwana 8y ago
      Unfortunately it costs money to hire people and run servers, and we have to pay for it somehow! Over 1/3 of our staff are first line customer support, and you get through to the engineers actually building and running the product quite quickly if you find an issue that the support team can't help you with directly. The alternative is trying to monitise the userbase some other way, and we're not interested in that game. We have no advertising, no data sales, and no ethical conundrums or regrets about that choice! Cheers.
• Iv 8y ago
  A French non-profit named Framasoft [1] started a few years ago an effort named "degooglify internet" [2] and provides several open source solutions that you can self-host or use on their (arguably slowish) servers. [1] https://framasoft.org/ https://framasoft.org/ [2] https://degooglisons-internet.org/?l=en https://degooglisons-internet.org/?l=en
  • newscracker 8y ago
    I’ve used the freely hosted online spreadsheet from Framasoft. It’s somewhat primitive for today, but gets the job done! It will remain one of my goto solutions to use where I need more privacy.
  • zaarn 8y ago
    Framasoft is pretty good. I'm sometimes turned off due to the french (I don't speak french at all, my own language and english are already too much). I can recommend it however.
• prabhaav 8y ago
  Decentralized Google Docs alternative: https://www.graphitedocs.com/ https://www.graphitedocs.com/
  • jhunter1016 8y ago
    Thanks for posting. Graphite has an alternative to Google Docs, Google Sheets, Google Drive, and Google Hangouts. I hope you'll check it out!
• ccozan 8y ago
  Again, like I or others mentioned before. If you don't want to be the product, you just have to pay the equivalent of a beer in month [0]. You need a own domain, but who doesn't these days? [0] https://gsuite.google.com/pricing.html https://gsuite.google.com/pricing.html
  • sidcool 8y ago
    So are you saying that a Gsuite customer is not tracked and targeted for ads?
    • CobrastanJorji 8y ago
      Per the G Suites terms of service: > Google will not process Customer Personal Data for Advertising purposes or serve Advertising in the Services. https://gsuite.google.com/terms/dpa_terms.html https://gsuite.google.com/terms/dpa_terms.html
  • sincerely 8y ago
    Which of the tiers are you talking about?
  • auslander 8y ago
    This is ridiculous. It is the same company, Ads driven company, you're expecting to be nice just because you paid few dollars.
    • untog 8y ago
      No, the G Suite product has a clearly defined privacy policy that's quite different to the usual Google one. If Google violates it they'll be liable to be sued for millions, at the least. It's not "expecting to be nice", it's "entering into a legal and business relationship that stipulates niceness".
      • auslander 8y ago
        Could not find full GSuite policy, hmm. The best I got is [1]. They do scan stuff, and for a long (con:) game, it is priceless. They'll have your kids school scores for example. scan and index your data to provide you with your services and to protect your data, such as to perform spam and malware detection, to sort email for features like Priority Inbox and to return fast, powerful search results when users search for information in their accounts. [1] support.google.com/googlecloud/answer/6056650
• duckduckno 8y ago
  I used to be a privacy advocate until I realized the futility of trying to thwart the data collectors. Our Information is everywhere whether we like it or not and the only way to avoid its aggregation is by not associating with the world and abandoning the convenience of modern technology. I feel like at some point we just have to accept the loss of privacy to gain better harmony within our communities. I would recommend The Transparent Society by David Brin to anyone interested in this matter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Transparent_Society https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Transparent_Society
  • marricks 8y ago
    I could empathize with your viewpoint more if not for the fact the lack of privacy wouldn’t be symmetrical. The middle and lower class will lose all semblance of privacy while the elite will be able to buy it. Case in point Mark Zuckerberg buying up that Hawaiian island. Not only is it unfair but when the rich are just getting richer them having privacy while no one else does just allows for so many more ways for the poor to get screwed.
    • duckduckno 8y ago
      I don't think I quite understand your argument, could you please elaborate a bit? I have always been under the assumption that fame grows linearly with wealth and the more famous someone is the less privacy they hold. Is that inaccurate? I could tell you that Warren Buffet is 1.78 m tall and that I know where he was born but I honestly know nothing about the minimum-wage-working Bob Smith.
      • krtkush 8y ago
        If you were to find the most personal details of this Mr. Smith it would be far easier to do that. You could sit outside his house whole day long and observe his every move, dumpster dive into his trash and get documents, even bribe a certain official and get more info out of him/ her. I don't think any of that will be possible in the case of Warren Buffet.
• mobitar 8y ago
  Alternative to Google Keep: Standard Notes. https://standardnotes.org https://standardnotes.org. Encrypted, open source, and cross platform :)
• trumped 8y ago
  You probably should install something like LineageOS to replace stock Android and avoid installing any Google apps/services if you want to be Google-free... (use f-droid or Yalp to find apps). Because if you replace all Google products with alternatives but have a Google service running on your phone 24/7, what's the point?
  • tty89 8y ago
    One problem that I found with Lineage without GApps (using microG) was that GPS was done for. I couldn't use any map application for navigation, nor book a cab using Uber (their web interface kept denying my payment methods), etc. There were times when I was at a tough spot with friends and family -- trying to book a cab but couldn't. Again, using Uber is sending a tracking signal but it's either that or paying 2x the amount to a local cab. So google play services is the necessary evil that I have to keep using even after switching to Lineage. I'm back to using them again, but PlayStore and PlayServices are the only two google apps that I have currently. I try getting most of my apps from FDroid -- my filter for "good" apps is mostly how active the repo is, not great but it works. I've moved my mail over to Fastmail, and looking alternatives to Google Drive (Backblaze B2 is one that I'm thinking of). The problem with all of these non-google alternatives is although they're only slightly inconvenient for me, they're almost impossible for my family to use (B2 for example doesn't have an app).
    • Charlie_26 8y ago
      What about just getting Google Maps on Yalp? It's definitely there. Can Google still track your location if it's downloaded here?
  • MrBingley 8y ago
    Absolutely. Last year Google was tracking the location of Android devices that used its push messaging service (so basically all of them) even when privacy features were turned on. Installing a Google-free custom rom is the only solution to prevent this. I have been using LineageOS without Gapps for the past month, and it's worked superbly. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/nov/22/google-track-android-users-location-services-turned-off-sim https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/nov/22/google-tr...
• mnm1 8y ago
  I installed etar, but I fail to see how this is a replacement for Google calendar. It is a nice app with seemingly identical functionality that still reads and works with my Google calendar feed and seemingly nothing else. If Google still hosts my calendar, then this app isn't providing anything of value privacy wise. Am I missing something here? I've been looking for a Google calendar replacement that respects privacy for years. I hear rumors proton mail might get one at some point... but I'm not holding my breath.
  • deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
• joelrunyon 8y ago
  Did a little version of this a few years back. Think it still holds up - https://impossiblehq.com/complete-guide-leaving-google/ https://impossiblehq.com/complete-guide-leaving-google/
  • cashel 8y ago
    Nice article as well, you could add Qwant & Searx for search; and Tutanota & Posteo for email (though Posteo is not free); and Mastodon for social, just my two cents.
• MatekCopatek 8y ago
  After convincing myself to do this kind of a switch, I noticed the experience using open protocols (IMAP, CardDAV and CalDAV) on Android isn't perfect. First of all, I had to buy a 3rd party app that does CardDAV and CalDAV syncing, because unlike iOS, Android doesn't support it natively. Secondly, IMAP doesn't come close to what I was used to with Gmail. And I'm not talking about the lack of good global search, I mean the general responsiveness when reading emails. No matter which client I use (I currently settled on Outlook), things seem to load for a long time, sometimes freeze, etc. Thirdly, all the Google supplied apps technically have support for other providers, but the Google account is clearly a first class citizen. E.g. adding/removing a generic IMAP account simply makes it appear/disappear from the sidebar in the Gmail app. You can never truly hide the Google account. You CAN disable syncing, but it will remain in the app and you can easily re-enable it accidentally if you just tap it in the sidebar. Anyone have similar experience? What do you recommend? Are there any commercial clients with a better user experience? Should I give up and move to iOS?
  • bad_user 8y ago
    > First of all, I had to buy a 3rd party app that does CardDAV and CalDAV syncing, because unlike iOS, Android doesn't support it natively. Android is made by Google and they now have an interest in not promoting open protocols. They are no longer the underdog, so it's in their best interest to push their proprietary protocols. It doesn't always work, the former Google Talk was great because it was light and compatible with XMPP, it all went to shit after Hangouts happened and I'm glad that Hangouts is almost dead. Either way, you need to recognize that if Android doesn't work well with CardDAV / CalDAV, that's a problem that Google is creating. > IMAP doesn't come close to what I was used to with Gmail. And I'm not talking about the lack of good global search, I mean the general responsiveness when reading emails. No matter which client I use. If you're using Gmail, again, that's not fair because their IMAP implementation isn't that great. I haven't had any problems with iOS's Mail or with MailMate (https://freron.com/ https://freron.com/), in combination with FastMail. Speaking of which, I use MailMate with my Gmail accounts too, because I love it and all third-party email apps work better with FastMail, because Gmail's IMAP is not standard; e.g. labels are IMAP folders instead of IMAP keywords, so you get duplicate emails and the client needs to do tricks to reconcile the two. I also use Gmail accounts on iOS and Gmail doesn't do push email on iOS (FastMail does), but I don't mind it so much to be honest. I don't like being bombarded with notifications, so if email notifications from Gmail are a minute late, it doesn't matter. And it should go without saying that if you want push notifications on Android's Gmail app, then you can't use IMAP. I don't know of any good solutions for Android, I was a user of K9 because it's open source and does push notifications for IMAP, but it's not great. And now I'm an iOS user because it has better support for open protocols, even if I was a die hard Android fan. I might reconsider for my next phone, I might get back to Android, but when I do, I'll factor in the cost of using open protocols, because it's Android's fault for IMAP, CardDAV and CalDAV not working well.
• known 8y ago
  https://prism-break.org/en/all/ https://prism-break.org/en/all/ and https://www.privacytools.io/ https://www.privacytools.io/ has comprehensive list
• ssijak 8y ago
  Alternative to Google Photos?
• Animats 8y ago
  I've been doing most of those things for years. Just never got into Google services.
• vortico 8y ago
  A rule of thumb is that the more you pay for online services, the more pleasant, more privacy-respecting, and better support you have in the services you use. I use email hosts, file hosts, git hosts, and video hosts that are quite expensive, but the cost is totally worth it when you get used to the quality of service and product you get. There is very little reason for a company to sell your data when they make $200/yr from you. Even a slight rumor based on a misinterpretation of their privacy policy could lose them thousands of customers and thus 6 figures, and unlike the free services that couldn't care less if they lost thousands, they try very hard to keep their privacy policies honest and clear. It's just an application of the saying "you get what you pay for."
  • Reedx 8y ago
    It would be interesting to check those out - who are the providers?
    • vortico 8y ago
      I don't want to feel like an advertisement, but here are some "expensive" services that make me feel that I'm using their product instead of being their product. The following are some services I'm proud to pay their amount for. https://www.fastmail.com/ https://www.fastmail.com/ for email https://vimeo.com/ https://vimeo.com/ for 4K HD video uploads https://www.backblaze.com/ https://www.backblaze.com/ for backup https://www.rackspace.com/cloud/files https://www.rackspace.com/cloud/files for sharing files and photos to people https://www.shopify.com/ https://www.shopify.com/ for processing payments for my company https://www.linode.com/ https://www.linode.com/ for frontend hosting https://www.heroku.com/ https://www.heroku.com/ for app hosting I don't use online services for calendars, project management, to-do lists, etc. so I can't help there.
• jedberg 8y ago
  This is all fine and well, but to be honest, I like how Google integrates all the different products. I get a better experience when search is customized to what is in my email, especially when I search for flight info and it tells me about flights I already have booked, or better yet, flights my in-laws are on that they forwarded to me and I'm now tracking to go pick them up. Sometimes the ads it gives me are so relevant I actually click on them and I'm glad I did! I just have a better experience where I'm constantly delighted by Google anticipating what I want because it knows so much about me. I should be paranoid, I know, but I just like the convenience so much.
  • ahmedalsudani 8y ago
    Then this list is probably not for you.
  • blub 8y ago
    Well, most people are boring and don't rock the boat. Things can get tricky if they pop up (thorough bad luck or as a consequence of their actions) on the radar of someone that wants to make their life miserable or if they bother someone with power. Otherwise I assume you're well off financially by now, so getting screwed on insurance should be a non-issue. Discrimination is likewise a non-issue. In general money helps and being a US citizen, straight, not muslim, healthy, male etc also helps.
    • edanm 8y ago
      While all these things help, I still think it's true that for 99.9% of people, nothing really bad will happen because of info that Google collects. I mean, as terrible as "getting on the radar of someone that wants to make [your] life miserable" is, it's a relatively rare occurrence, and I doubt that Google is really making it that much worse (if at all). Disclaimer - would be happy to be proved wrong if you want to provide contrary evidence...
      • arrayjumper 8y ago
        Android has over 2 billion users. 0.01% of that is still 2 million humans.
• deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
• eklavyaa 8y ago
  Thanks for list but I am always worried about what if the new ,safe,better privacy provider is bought by Google or <any company which we are trying to avoid> ? Referring the recent history we have seen many good products just bought up and they changed their business model e.g WhatsUp
• wawhal 8y ago
  What about Android? Android allegedly collects your data too. If you are running all your apps on an Android phone, all these replacements don't really mean anything.
• catwell 8y ago
  Regarding Youtube, the article does not mention PeerTube, which is in beta today and is crowdfunding through a highly trusted French non-profit (Framasoft): https://www.kisskissbankbank.com/en/projects/peertube-a-free-and-federated-video-platform/ https://www.kisskissbankbank.com/en/projects/peertube-a-free... You can try it out at https://peertube.cpy.re https://peertube.cpy.re Former discussions on HN: - About the crowdfunding: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17153023 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17153023 - About Peertube: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16714453 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16714453
• twsted 8y ago
  Surely should add Safari among Chrome alternatives.
• omegote 8y ago
  Funny how a website that announces alternatives to Google Products has a flash of unstyled content because it uses... Roboto as the main body font. Roboto is a typeface developed by Google...
  • hargup 8y ago
    Using a font developed by Google doesn't help Google track you. Protecting your privacy != doesn't mean rejecting absolutely everything by Google.
    • omegote 8y ago
      > Using a font developed by Google doesn't help Google track you Oh you bet it does, if you load it from googlefonts.com
• fuzzy2 8y ago
  I tried. However - On Mailbox.org I receive spam. Lots of it. Why? Because they don’t look at message contents in their spam filter. Privacy, remember? - On other search engines, I don’t find what I’m looking for. Not even remotely. - Firefox Dev Tools suck. You have to test across all browsers anyway. In the end, I will keep using G Suite. There is simply no equal alternative, with my own domains for mail and whatnot.
• amelius 8y ago
  I want universities back in their role of defining and creating the basic services we need on the internet. Corporations have shown they can't handle it. A few large open source organizations like Mozilla are now doing the work of universities, but they don't have the financial backing of governments, so it's a miracle they even exist. Corporations can go back to their role of creating hardware. They have no business looking at our data.
• bitL 8y ago
  After DDG recently switched to imprecise search, ignoring what I really search for, the same way as Google does for a while, I don't see any use for it anymore. Is there another good alternative for precise search? Thanks
  • icebraining 8y ago
    Google, enabling the Verbatim option? You can add "&tbs=li:1" to the search query in your browser or use http://mycroftproject.com/google-search-plugins.html http://mycroftproject.com/google-search-plugins.html in Firefox.
• 11235813213455 8y ago
  What if I don't care about privacy?
• matthberg 8y ago
  While the advice here is quite solid, when I went to figure out what their favicon was doing(it had partial transparency, apparently due to downscaling blending opaque and transparent parts), the first thing I saw was a big block of code that appeared to enable tracking by Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest, and Linkedin. (It was a sharrre function with enableTracking set to true on each). Not entirely relevant, yet considering the topic of the site it's a tad ironic, and a reminder of the prevalence of sites complicit in the tracking they advocate against.
  • crtasm 8y ago
    Yep, they're using a jquery plugin called Sharrre to add social media buttons and have overridden its default off setting for "enableTracking - allows tracking social interaction with Google Analytics".
• skate22 8y ago
  As much as i like OpenStreetMaps, i wouldn't really consider it a great alternative for google maps. Consider making a small application to find the nearest cofee shop. OSM might have 10% of the POI coverage that Google has. And that 10% likely has some stale data.
• jasonsync 8y ago
  Don't forget https://www.sync.com https://www.sync.com for secure cloud storage and file sharing.
• shortformblog 8y ago
  This site is so obviously trying to sell everyone VPN software for affiliate revenue. The aggressive SEO structure is a pretty clear tell. So color me skeptical in terms of their advice.
• amdelamar 8y ago
  A few more things... Google DNS (8.8.8.8) -> Quad9 (9.9.9.9) or Cloudflare (1.1.1.1). Google Domains -> Namecheap or Porkbun. Google Hangouts -> Wire or Signal. Google Groups -> Groups.io
• bogomipz 8y ago
  I would be interested in hearing any feedback from folks here about the email providers listed in this article. Or any other alternatives that people have had good success with.
• jhoh 8y ago
  Last week I tried to improve my online privacy and removed all Google products from my life. In short, here's what I did: 1. Replaced my Google G-Suite with Proton Mail and a self hosted Nextcloud The process was fairly easy: Just export all your mails and import them into Proton Mail. After that I've exported Google Drive data, contacts and calendar and imported everything into Nextcloud. This all took around two hours (including the Nextcloud setup). The only "issue" was dealing with services where I use my G-Suite account as a login, but most of them allowed you to set a password so you can log in with email. Nextcloud has amazing one click install apps that offer the same features that Google has (video calls, docs, notes etc.). 2. Removing Google from my Android phone For that I flashed LineageOS for microG. The great thing with this is, that you can install and use all apps you normally have but without having Google Services installed. As a PlayStore alternative you can use F-Droid and Yalp Store. Anyone who installed a custom ROM before will have it running in under an hour. 3. Securing my network with a PI-Hole and Proton VPN For devices like my phone, laptop and desktop I installed Proton VPN. As a browser for mobile and desktop I use Firefox with uBlock origin. For everything else (like "smart" devices etc.) I installed a Pi-Hole (basically Easy-List on network level) to remove ads and tracking scripts. These were only the major steps that I've taken. So far I don't have any regrets about it and I haven't faced any limitations with the alternatives I use now. If anyone has questions or ideas for further improvement, let me know. Links: https://protonmail.com/ https://protonmail.com/ https://nextcloud.com/ https://nextcloud.com/ https://lineage.microg.org/ https://lineage.microg.org/ https://protonvpn.com/ https://protonvpn.com/
• majidazimi 8y ago
  We are facing two issues: 1. Privacy against advertisers 2. Privacy against security agencies. From my perspective, first issue, is more important than second one. I think Apple does pretty decent job regarding first issue. MS holds second position. Google/FB hold the worst position. So even though Apple/MS are closed source, I think our privacy will improve considerably just by installing an ad-blocker and sticking to Apple/MS products. Second issue is more involved and you'd probably need to give up on all sort of mobile devices. On desktop you have to move to Linux/BSDs. No online storage (or at least move to self hosted solution). No hosted email(Or maybe just protonmail, ...). Life becomes tougher, if you decide to improve privacy against security agencies. People tend to treat privacy as a binary issue. (either no privacy or full privacy). However, as said, majority of people experience much higher privacy just by dumping Google/FB and using an ad-blocker.
  • radiorental 8y ago
    Something I'm pondering.. If advertisers can't reach me then why should I be concerned what they collect about me? I do not see any ads, I use gmail and gcal. Genuine question - I understand I'm still 'the product' as far as they're concerned but it's a broken loop if they don't get my eyeballs. Help me understand anything I'm missing. I'm currently not motivated enough to move out of google products.
    • majidazimi 8y ago
      It might sound a bit radical, but I think, even using rival's products to decrease Google's monopoly is an achievement on its own. To be honest, Firefox is somewhat an inferior product compared to Chrome, but I use it just to increase diversity in browser marketplace.
  • Fnoord 8y ago
    Where exactly does Amazon fit in your picture?
    • majidazimi 8y ago
      Regarding their cloud business, I think it's fine to use AWS. However, I'm kind of against their online shop, since there are many reports that they abuse their employees in warehouses.
• neurobashing 8y ago
  It's always funny to me to see alternatives to YouTube. The creators I like are on YouTube and rarely anywhere else. So while if I wanted to start vlogging, I might choose Vimeo, I'm tied into going to YT to see the content I want. It's like saying "for an alternative to NBC, try CBS". OK fine but Cheers airs on NBC, now what.
  • beagle3 8y ago
    You can use Youtube as a producer, or a consumer (or both). You are right that as a consumer, you are part of a captive audience. But as a producer, the others might be a good alternative - especially if you are not trying to monetize and/or rely on YouTube recommendation to get discovered. If you're posting family videos for aunt Mildred, and an instructional video linked to your blog post - then there are perfectly fine alternatives to YouTube - of which most people are completely unaware.
• _cs2017_ 8y ago
  Why not just turn DNT on? Sure, not all websites respect it, but all Google services do.
• Bakary 8y ago
  At the risk of revealing my ignorance, but how can we trust those alternative services any more than Google?
• erikdared 8y ago
  Google Photos would be the most difficult thing for me to leave behind. Nothing to my knowledge even comes close in terms of functionality. A year or two ago I tried Microsoft's equivalent in OneDrive and it was absolutely abysmal, the web interface barely functioned with a few thousand photos. Not to mention the search works so well, I don't know how I'd replace it for finding things. I would take an eternity to go back and tag all of my photos.
• Zeklandia 8y ago
  I'm convinced that "privacy tools" have become the homeopathy of computers.
• tkim90 8y ago
  Anyone know why G Suite (the paid version of Gmail) is not considered private? From the site it says they are encrypted, regularly audited by 3rd parties and not used for ads. I've used alternatives (namely ProtonMail), but the experience is not as good as Gmail. https://gsuite.google.com/faq/security/ https://gsuite.google.com/faq/security/
• dbtqgoat 8y ago
  My biggest problem with this article is that it doesn’t do anything to address built in tracking google has on many pages. Companies embed little snippets of google JavaScript so they can take advantage of analytics. As a result, google can track you whether you use their products directly or not.
  • owlmirror 8y ago
    Right. I recently had to debug an official app to a quite expensive enterprise application and was shocked that everything you do in that app is logged with Google. When I brought this up with the company they were furious. I think they forced them to add an opt out flag. Or at least they tried.
  • beagle3 8y ago
    And that's exactly why stuff like uBlock Origin / uMatrix / Disconnect / Privacy Badger is not just ethical, it's almost a moral imperative - they stop that kind of tracking, but not fetching those snippets from Google. Decentraleyes aids further by moving the CDNs into your own machine, killing even the little tracking enabled by those CDNs.
• arendtio 8y ago
  I use Nextcloud since a few years now and I have to say I am quite happy. Sometimes the devs have some awkward attitude towards not supporting the latest stable PHP version with their current version, but overall they do a decent job and every major release brings cool new features. With KDE the desktop integration is quite nice (don't know about other desktops).
• stemc43 8y ago
  Check "Prism break" website. Man - humans have short memory.
• jhunter1016 8y ago
  Throwing Graphite into the mix too. Decentralized Docs, Sheets, Messaging, and File Storage. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16490595 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16490595
• VikingCoder 8y ago
  I think we should all be looking a little harder at Sandstorm.io, and trying to get more Alternatives to Google Products running well on it. It's hard to explain well, but roughly it lets lay people run cloud software on their own hardware (or in the cloud) with minimal fuss.
• BrandoElFollito 8y ago
  I considered many of these alternatives (I am a Google fanboy but wanted to host a few things myself, notably Seafile) but never found any alternative to Docs and their multiuser concurrent edition capabilities. I think this is a know-how particularly difficult to reproduce.
• zyren 8y ago
  Any alternatives for Inbox? it's one of the biggest reasons im stuck in the google ecosystem.
• zyren 8y ago
  Any alternatives to Inbox? It's one of the biggest reasons why i am stuck in the google ecosystem. I can't go back to a normal email interface anymore.
• diskandar27 8y ago
  if you go under 'privacy checkup' you could easily turn off any data tracking that you don't want to share with google. This website I think is kind of misleading we are not 'surrendering' our data as the website suggest, we are still in control of our own data, and we could control of how much data we want to share or don't want to share with google. And all those sharing also has benefits to increase the user experience. On top of that there is always a paid version like youtube where you don't get to see any ads.
• reacharavindh 8y ago
  Any recommendations for a self-hosted alternative for Google Photos?
• jmcnulty 8y ago
  I wonder, am I the only one who's actually happy to be a paid up Google customer? I own a Chromebook and an Android phone and have migrated absolutely everything onto google drive, play and photos. It's a wonderfully relaxing compute experience. Everything just works and works well. Yes I know they're mining data about me and are likely making money off that. But has that actually had a tangible negative effect on my life in any way at all? I'm not aware of anything bad, and their products are a boon to my life. I've invested in a couple of other web sites to satisfy my requirements (like picmonkey) and have a DigitalOcean account for my VM needs, but that's it.
• nottorp 8y ago
  So, mail services that actually care about your privacy. Nice. I don't even mind paying BUT... ... are any of them as usable as Google? Or at least close. GMail's web interface is the only place where I have old email and i can actually find it by searching. Any of these services offers both imap and a usable web interface?
• ohiovr 8y ago
  I would like to add YouPHPTube to this list as an alternative to YouTube.
• beenBoutIT 8y ago
  The URL restoreprivacy.com is an interesting choice, considering that the Internet and browsers were never private and weren't designed for privacy. The Internet was designed to be redundant and persistent, both of which are effectively non-private qualities.
• benmaq 8y ago
  this is awesome