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Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new home-share law
- bradleyjg 8y agoMaybe now they can start complying with New York law.
- partycoder 8y agoIn Japan, citizens will punish you if you don't respect their law (e.g.: by not using your service). One of the reasons of why Uber had a hard time in there initially.
- repomies6999 8y agoHmm, I used uber in japan when I was traveling there and it worked quite well. What kind of problems were they having?
- gkanai 8y agoUber has not been successful in Japan for many reasons. 1) the public transportation system is excellent. 2) the taxis are ubiquitous in the major metro areas. 3) the taxi companies have worked together to compete against Uber Japan successfully (Japan Taxi app, etc.)
- dahdum 8y agoTaxis in Japan had already solved the problems that pushed me towards Uber/Lyft in the first place. Credit card readers work properly, virtually every payment method is accepted, the drivers use GPS, availability was good (for my use case), and they are polite. It's hard to get public support of law breaking when your solution is just incrementally better than the existing system.
- Grue3 8y agoWhen I tried using Uber in Tokyo, I was only able to call a licensed taxi through the app, which was incredibly expensive. The one time I actually needed a taxi (in a tiny town in Tohoku) I had to walk around hoping to physically hail one (getting a SIM card that can make phone calls is apparently very difficult in Japan, so I didn't have one).
- CaptainZapp 8y agoA pocket WiFi and Skype-Out resolved the issue for me.
- humanrebar 8y agoNew York doesn't enforce double parking, jaywalking, and other "good neighbor" and safety laws. Why is this one special?
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago> New York doesn't enforce double parking, jaywalking, and other "good neighbor" and safety laws I am not disturbed by double parkers or jaywalkers. I was disturbed by unit 4F and 7B's weekly round of "drunk Europeans screaming in the hallway at 3AM".
- humanrebar 8y agoI've seen people almost die due to double parking clogging up the street. I'm sure accidents do happen from that.
- bradleyjg 8y agoInteresting that the two “good neighbor” laws you picked mainly impact drivers. Perhaps the answer to your question is that almost all New Yorkers (city) are living in multiple dwelling buildings but only a smallish minority are regular drivers.
- humanrebar 8y agoThey also impact pedestrians. I've seen pedestrians almost hit due to double parking in NYC. Sometimes they are also jaywalking, but sometimes there's a crosswalk or intersection and the double parking is hurting visibility.
- bradleyjg 8y agoThat’s a good point. I wonder if that’s been considered as part of vision zero.
- poisonarena 8y agoI understand all the ramifications in certain cities where the housing prices are getting effected by airbnb, but I think in this case it is just the Hotels strong arming because they were losing business and the Olympics are coming. I am a budget traveler and low income remote worker and I really am glad I got to slide in before airbnb got shafted. It's a shame that I now have to choose between hostels and overpriced hotels, when I prefer the AirBnB experience. I met friends my age, got to see a side of Japan outside of tourist spots, and learned what it's like to just live in a normal house here without some exchange program or school. Without AirBnB I would not have been able to visit this unique country! RIP!
- JKCalhoun 8y agoI too slipped in before the crack down. Got a rustic place in Kyoto. It was definitely no-frills but as you say, gave you a sense of really living in Japan. When you have a family of five, hotels add up fast (it was hard even finding a hotel room that would allow 4, forget 5). Still, there are always ryokan. Not quite the same as "living native" but somewhere in between that and the expensive Western hotel.
- charlesdm 8y agoWhy not just comply with the laws? I have a friend who did this, but in tourist-y cities this was turning into situations where a person would rent out 10 apartments at $2k/mo and rent them on at $300 a night. A great business, but if you live in a block with constant travellers then I guess it can get super annoying fast.
- pavel_lishin 8y agoAlso pretty annoying when you can't find a place to rent, because the apartments start getting taken over by "enterpreneurs" such as your friend.
- tunap 8y agoThat, and the price inflation sucks. I am going to look at a former AB&B property to rent today. The ludicrous price will be discussed, if they are unwilling to negotiate, the place will likely stay empty for the summer months(AZ, in a tourist oriented corner of the valley).
- John_KZ 8y agoThat's a great example that clearly demonstrates that local law can be enforced, even on companies like AirBnb. I hear lots of arguments on "You can't enforce the ban", but it's simpler than ever to just do that.
- lovemenot 8y agoYeah. There's effectively never been Uber or similar in Japan either. People just respect regulations and they generally do work very well.
- jorvi 8y agoI'm European, and in general I like (well thought out) regulations, but in the case of the taxi industry Uber is actually not a bad guy but a huge blessing. In a lot of countries (80%+) taxi drivers are rude, try to price gouge, try to scam you or try to take longer routes. Uber takes all of this away. The rating system ensures drivers are polite. The estimate € (plus route tracking) ensures they don't take the scenic route, and the fact that all payment happens via the app means there is no longer 'my meter is broken/the credit card reader is broken/sorry I miscalculated its €10 more'. And because Uber is global I can use the same app wether I am in Paris, Prague, Hanoi or Seattle.. which means I don't need to install and learn 3 different apps. Edit: to be clear, I am aware why Uber gets such a bad rep, and as a tech company they might deserve it, but as a taxi company they are absolutely top notch.
- EStudley 8y ago>In a lot of countries (80%+) taxi drivers are rude, try to price gouge, try to scam you or try to take longer routes. I have had every experience you explained with Uber. People driving me weird ways around my city to make the trip longer, rude, attempting to add a cleaning charge with no reason, or the classic "Hey if you cancel the ride and give me $10 I can get you there."
- icebraining 8y ago
- vasili111 8y agoWhen I read that kind of news, I am thinking that it is time to ban all electric/gas engines and allow only steam engines.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- Krasnol 8y agoBecause all electric/gas engines are unregulated?
- pavel_lishin 8y agoWhat?
- ko27 8y agoOfficial AirBnB reply: https://press.atairbnb.com/supporting-travelers-in-japan-australia-and-new-zealand/ https://press.atairbnb.com/supporting-travelers-in-japan-aus...
- pjc50 8y agoSimilar discussions are ongoing in lots of cities. In Edinburgh they're trying to pre-empt this a bit with voluntary restrictions: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-42733066 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-4... AirBnb creates "bad neighbours" by putting lots of tourists, some of whom behave badly, in formerly residential locations. It creates a whole new set of absentee landlords. If it were restricted to renting out places where the owner was still living it wouldn't be nearly so much of a problem.
- fredley 8y agoThis is the approach taken in London: Anyone can AirBnB their property, but only for 90 days a year, unless you have special permission. This prevents people buying up/renting flats just to let them out on AirBnB and putting pressure on the already cripplingly bad housing situation.
- andy_ppp 8y agoIsn’t this just ignored largely?
- poooogles 8y agoBased upon my neighbours; yes completely. Anecdata is anecdata however...
- nikon 8y agoYou can report them to your council.
- fredley 8y agoAFAIK the limit is on AirBnB's site directly. Your account is limited until you provide documents from the council. I don't know to what extent people are forging these documents though.
- 8y ago
- Razengan 8y agoThis Redditor offers one plausible cause/reason [0]: > This may not be a popular opinion here but I totally understand the concern. There had been a huge increase in transient international visitors being introduced to residential areas that previously did not have to deal with that. Having a constant stream of strangers coming and going in your building is not something many residents feel comfortable with. Also: > Also I just want to be sure to note to people: THESE LAWS APPLY TO ALL SHORT TERM RENTALS AND ARE NOT JUST FOR AIRBNB. [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/JapanTravel/comments/8os3mv/minpaku_law_airbnb_and_you_information_on_the_new/ https://www.reddit.com/r/JapanTravel/comments/8os3mv/minpaku...
- wallace_f 8y agoThat's a valid concern. But seems to be something better handled by local ordinances and not the sort of thing a national government shoulf need to drop the hammer down on... In my opinion.
- gwbas1c 8y agoJapan is much smaller than the US or the EU. IMO, there are certain advantages to regulating things at a higher level. It's easier for AirBNB to comply with one set of rules instead of many. An individual in Japan can take advantage of a single, well-written how-to guide instead of learning his or her local laws. That being said, where I live, I made sure the HOA explicitly forbids AirBNB-style rentals.
- wallace_f 8y agoWell if that's the only issue, that would be obviously easy to solve. More clearly: I don't think you should make an app like this illegal. The burden should be on the property owners, not on AirBnB. Or why not? What other problems exist? In some supreme court cases, justices have argued 'while I do not agree that this should be legal, it should be up to the states to legislate, not the federal government.' The two major advantages I see for local legislation is 1) more-representative and more-direct democracy, and 2) value in allowing experimentation and competition of policy legislation... I'm not so much making this up as I go, but these kinds of ideas are things I've read in American political history, and when I thought about it, decided I agreed with. Here, it seems to me like an obvious candidate for such line of thought... But I could be wrong, maybe you can convince me otherwise?
- kevin_b_er 8y agoMany of these are not "home-shares", they're hotels.
- knodi 8y agoAirbnb over the years has become over priced crap.
- laurieg 8y agoGood riddance. I live in rented accommodation in Japan. A couple of years ago an Airbnb was set up next door and it was a nightmare. People coming and going at all hours, large groups of drunk holiday-makers having loud parties into the night, drinking and smoking on the balcony. After multiple calls to the owner of the apartment and the police the situation was finally resolved. I definitely think Airbnb should have the limitation that you can only rent out a place you actively live in.
- _Codemonkeyism 8y agoSame here Berlin, and it's even illegal mostly.
- vinceguidry 8y agoIt's really sad that AirBnB is used by most people as a cheap resort, and expect to have a resort-like experience at the expense of the local neighborhood who has no desire to live next to one. Can we just have home-share for people that understand how to be good neighbors, pretty please?
- dazc 8y ago'Can we just have home-share for people that understand how to be good neighbors...' Nice idea but, speaking from experience, it can work the other way around. I've stayed in a few AirBnB's where the neighbours have been arseholes. Hosts also, on at least one occasion.
- jessaustin 8y agoPart of hotels' professionalism is knowing how to deal with "hillbillies". Hillbillies are naturally attracted to cheap things and have no idea how to conduct themselves when they aren't in their own hometown, so they are a special problem with respect to Airbnb. One might assume from my place of birth that I am a hillbilly, but decades of travel and living in various places domestically and abroad have mostly civilized me. I do occasionally have to correct myself however.
- 8y ago
- bitL 8y agoAirBnB never had many listings in Japan in the first place; when I was visiting there I always went with the agencies that specialized in short-term apartment rentals; those were best for price/quality ratio if you spent at least month there. And you could even get typical traditional Japanese apartments that way near important cultural landmarks. And observing typical Japanese customs like trash collection of certain types on certain days at precisely designated spots made you feel quite integrated to their modern way of life.
- reustle 8y agoI've previously lived in Tokyo over a year (many shorter trips) mainly in AirBnBs. Which agencies would you recommend?
- jupiter90000 8y agoAlso interested in an answer for this. I've looked up some in the past but not sure how good any of them are.
- a_t48 8y agoThat's a bit of a shame. I get where they are coming from, but the place in Ueno my girlfriend and I rented out was cute and we didn't hold any wild parties, even if I did get the evil eye from some old guy in a convenience store.
- pteredactyl 8y agoAgreed it's a bummer for people who are chill and looking to see another side of a place.
- hrktb 8y agoHow did it go for the trash ? recycling rules ? balcony usage ? Did you check/pass the kanranban ? Genuinely, resident building are so different from hotels I wonder how smooth it is for the residents to have random oversea people passing by even only 180 days a year, even if they are polite, well educated and well intended.
- enra 8y agoAlso stayed exclusively in Airbnbs when traveling in Japan. The hosts usually explained the rules how to sort the trash, including the removal the cap on the water bottles, and showed where to put the trash (on this random trash pile next to the building). Not sure about the balcony usage, but I'd would probably use common sense and not be yelling there or using it in the middle of the night. Also I don't smoke but seems as smoking goes, the rules were pretty liberal in Japan. I don't see these being issues, if the host explains the customs, obviously you cannot expect that everyone knows all your countries rules. On a side not its interesting how many different ways there is to sort trash.
- a_t48 8y agoIirc there was a binder with rules/info including trash/recycling rules. I think it was street pickup one of the mornings, but it’s been a year. I assume you meant “kairenban” - I don’t recall there being one but it may have been in that binder. I can assure you we were quiet and did our very best to follow the rules, but as I said above, I understand your discomfort. I’m personally not a huge fan of AirBnB, but I wasn’t in charge of booking lodgings for those nights. Even so, it was a nice experience.
- paulsutter 8y agoAirbnb’s statement is disingenuous. They state the rule clearly then claim surprise it’s being enforced: > hosts are required to register their listing and display a license number on their listing page by June 15th in order to stay active on our platform... > Unfortunately, the Japanese government issued a sudden announcement on June 1st instructing any host without a license number to cancel upcoming reservations that were booked before June 15th–even though many of these hosts are actively engaged in the registration process or awaiting their license. From: https://press.atairbnb.com/supporting-travelers-in-japan-australia-and-new-zealand/ https://press.atairbnb.com/supporting-travelers-in-japan-aus...
- icebraining 8y agoHow so? If the rule was applicable from June 15th, it is surprising that it's being enforced before that date, no?
- paulsutter 8y agoThe authorities would know if a flood of license approvals about to happen before the 15th. But surely there’s not, and on the 15th these units become illegal. Two weeks notice seems much more fair to travelers than waiting till the 15th and cancelling. Rules are followed in Japan. Allowing a grace period for unlicensed rentals was really fair of them.
- icebraining 8y agoYour opinion on the fairness of the new order is immaterial to whether Airbnb is feigning surprise the rule is being enforced. They are not.
- paulsutter 8y agoAirbnb gambled that the rule wouldn’t really be enforced by accepting reservations past the 15th for unlicensed units, their gamble didn’t pay off, and now they’re pretending to be surprised. Yes that’s the aggressive stance when 80% if units are at stake, but it’s Airbnb who is inconsiderate of renters here. They accepted reservations that were bound to be cancelled.
- bb101 8y agoSo how many of us now have a better idea on how to spend 48 hours in Chicago as a result of the article promo? And who else thinks the deep dish pizza from Malnati's looks more like a quiche? Either way, I now have Adventures in Babysitting on my watchlist.
- tnolet 8y agoIn Amsterdam they already set the limit of allowed rental days per year to 30. Just last month the new city council announced they will completely forbid AirBnB in certain neighbourhoods. As someone who studied and worked most of his life in Amsterdam I welcome these measures a lot.
- iandanforth 8y agoNimbyism at its best.
- Xylakant 8y agoWe had an illegal AirBNB in our building in Berlin. Some guests were ill-behaved and partied all night. The person renting the flat was unavailable. You had no recourse short of calling the police. I’d be very much fine with a hotel or an old-fashioned BnB in the building where staff or a responsible person is available to take care of and discipline misbehaving guests. You can call that NIMBYism, but yeah, no unregulated hotel in my backyard.
- Anderkent 8y agoSo why not call the police?
- Xylakant 8y agoIt’s heavy handed and a hassle. And I shouldn’t have to deal with it. Simple as that. I’m also in the privileged position that I could, but for other people calling the police bears a significant risk of ending up on the receiving end of the police interaction. So, the onus of proactively dealing with this is on the person renting the flat to guests. And AirBnB fails miserably at that.
- iandanforth 8y ago"I shouldn't have to deal with it." is the core of nimbyism.
- DINKDINK 8y ago“The government knows how to segregate us properly” And “Everything will be cheaper by limiting people the ability to trade”
- wooter 8y agoI find it sad how prevalent this mentality is. the cost to technology and progress is immeasurably vast.
- pjc50 8y agoqv the other thread on meaningless work, sometimes people find value in living in a city and neighborhood that isn't completely focused on extracting the maximum economic value at any cost.
- wafflesraccoon 8y agoSide point, what does `qv` mean at the start of your comment? I can't find anything with 30 seconds of Googling.
- pjc50 8y agoSorry, "quod videt", I should just write "see also"
- DINKDINK 8y ago>people find value in living in a city and neighborhood that isn't completely focused on extracting the maximum economic value at any cost. More power to them. But why should we use violence means against peaceful people?
- pjc50 8y agoWhat does violence have to do with any of this, unless some of the noise-related altercations are getting out of hand?
- 8y ago
- bane 8y agoThey'll probably be back after registering. The new law is pretty reasonable and AirBnB is actually following it. This is how this is supposed to work.
- EmilyHealth 8y agohttp://everydayhappy7.com/2016/11/28/boost-internet-connection-speed-3-times-simple-trick/ http://everydayhappy7.com/2016/11/28/boost-internet-connecti...
- mike-cardwell 8y agoI used several Airbnbs in Tokyo, Kyoto and Hiroshima last year. The first one we arrived in, in Tokyo had signs in the lift saying that Airbnb was not allowed to operate in the building, which was a bit of a stressful start. Nothing came from it though. The places in Kyoto and Hiroshima were fine, but it's made me weary of using Airbnb again.
- Fede_V 8y agoI think this is an interesting and unintended consequence of AirBnB not investing nearly on filtering their users. AirBnB obviously was interested in getting their product used by as many people as people (growth at all costs) - but this had the effect of getting a lot of young, cost conscious people to take holidays in area that were traditionally residential. While most AirBnB renters are polite and respectful, enough of them were loud, disruptive and ignoring the local rules (for example, tourists in Venice who use AirBnB but ignore the very strict garbage disposal laws) that local residents started dreading having AirBnBs around. AirBnB is already very strict with landlords: it needs to start being a lot stricter with its users too. They rapidly need to educate their users about how to be good citizens, and that the motto of 'the customer is always right' is completely the wrong way to think about a stay in a residential area in a foreign city. Users should think of themselves as a respectful guest, not an entitled customer.
- StavrosK 8y agoNo, sorry. AirBnB is creating immense problems in tourist destinations, to the point where people in major cities in Greece (and other countries) are having trouble finding affordable permanent housing. Barcelona and Rome are overrun with tourists, and it's killing the cities. AirBnB should just go away, the market worked very well before it, even if things were a bit more expensive.
- geebee 8y agoThere's a lot of emphasis on bad behavior from Airbnb guests, but I think that's only part of it. Another big issue is that formerly residential communities often resist the conversion of housing that used to host neighbors (and especially kids) into short term tourist rentals. The pressure, and controversy, is especially intense in areas that are largely residential but immensely popular with tourists. The French quarter of New Orleans, the left bank of Paris, many neighborhoods in San Francisco and New York, places like that. The problem is that "spare" bedrooms (as Airbnb likes to call them) are far more lucrative used as short term tourist rentals than as a living space for kids, who cost a bundle and don't generally pay much in rent. The pitch Airbnb makes is that people have a spare bedroom lying' around and why not rent it out? But the thing is, people start to acquire properties with spare bedrooms for the purpose of having one to rent out - or entire housing units. When this proceeds apace, former communities - which in places like the French quarter are already primed to protect themselves from too much conversion into tourism stock - come to see Airbnb as an existential threat. Even if the Airbnb guests are well behaved, this fundamental difference won't go away. Think of it this way: some people would like to trade their right to run a hotel out of their house in exchange for a legally enforced expectation that their neighbors won't either. That means severely restricting Airbnb.
- biztos 8y ago> some people would like to trade their right to run a hotel out of their house in exchange for a legally enforced expectation that their neighbors won't either. This! And: most of us thought we already had laws to that effect. Also, even for the best-behaved guests I would not want to have regular AirBNB-ing in my building. There are young children and old people living here, and they deserve some presumption of safety, not just quiet. (I do stay in AirBNBs myself sometimes, and I'm a very low-impact guest, but I recognize my opinion is a bit contradictory because of that.)
- heurist 8y agoFor what it's worth, as an airbnb host in a residential neighborhood in a small tourist town that attracts a lot of young people in the summer I have never had poorly behaved guests. I've had a couple that could have cleaned up after themselves a little more or ruined our towels but otherwise have not had any issues, even with noise. Airbnbs in the area absorb the extra demand for space that hotels cannot supply, and having strangers around during tourist season is far preferable to having new hotels built and dealing with the invasion of the sprawl that comes with them. We do not (yet) have the problem of investors buying real estate to rent out on Airbnb because there is not yet enough demand to support it. I realize you're talking about large cities, but it seems everyone else in this thread is as well and forgets that Airbnb operates well outside of large cities.
- dsfyu404ed 8y agoAs someone who grew up in a tourist area I support governments and communities that fight tooth and nail to not have a proliferation of tourism friendly housing (at the expense of the rental market no less) or allow other things that increase the market share of tourism relative to other local industries. When tourism is a large local industry it has tons of negative effects on the community that generally result in local government that doesn't have much reason to do a good job doing what it should do and plenty of reason to do things it shouldn't. It's bad in the short term that get made worse over generations. edit: Yes I know I didn't provide any specific examples and that this viewpoint will be foreign to those of you who go somewhere for vacation and think it seems nice (yes, that's the point, to seem nice enough to get you to spend your money here, that doesn't mean it's actually nice or nice for the people that live there).
- Tiktaalik 8y agoWe're seeing municipalities push back in cities as big as Barcelona and Vancouver, to places remote and small as Haida Gwaii. Cities are going to regulate out the concept of people buying apartments purely to wholly rent them out 100% of the time on Airbnb. This is a very significant portion of Airbnb revenue. I have trouble seeing how Airbnb's valuation isn't going to have to be scaled back when big parts of their business are regulated out of existence.
- greggman 8y agoWhat's frustrating with AirBnB in Japan is AirBnB lets them lie about how many bedrooms they actually have. The excuse usually given is that Japanese count rooms differently but that is 100% provably false. As someone that's lived here 12 of the last 20 years you can see it's provably false by visiting any Japanese realtor or apartment listing site where there is zero ambiguity about the difference between 1 bedroom, 1 bedroom with a living room, dining room or both, and a 2 bedroom, or a 2 bedroom with living room and/or dining room. This is important because of privacy. If it says 2 bedrooms it should actually have 2 bedrooms. Not a one bedroom and a living room with a sofa. The fact that AirBnb endorses this really speaks to the integrity at AirBnb which AFAICT is fairly low (have documented lots of other similar issues with them)
- fjsolwmv 8y agoAirBnB was founded on TOS violating abusing Craiglist users with spam. Integrity is not how you growth hack a unicorn startup.
- xab9 8y agoTo me it seems that AirBnB is cannibalizing its own business. They are not interested in strong control over either users or landlords, for they need more and more users - but the laxer the rules are and the more people are using their service, the harder cities and residential areas will fight against it. Probably an equilibrium could've been found not for the new and lawless startup culture fueled by their own hubris.
- anoncoward111 8y agoIt sounds like the real problem is that dense apartment-style housing can lead to conflicts between neighbors. If every single person had a cheap plot of land and a cheap house on it, then loud neighbors wouldnt be as much of a problem.