7 ms·

Seattle now decade’s fastest-growing big city in the U.S.

57 points by spking 8y ago

jseliger 8y ago
It's fast-growing, but the land-use policy is still oddly parochial in may ways: https://jakeseliger.com/2015/09/24/do-millennials-have-a-future-in-seattle-do-millennials-have-a-future-in-any-superstar-cities https://jakeseliger.com/2015/09/24/do-millennials-have-a-fut.... The vast majority of the city is still zoned for single-family housing: https://www.theurbanist.org/2017/10/23/the-path-to-eliminate-single-family-zoning-in-seattle https://www.theurbanist.org/2017/10/23/the-path-to-eliminate.... Just allowing multi-family housing and eliminating property requirements would do a huge amount to alleviate affordability and income inequality problems.
- taurath 8y ago
  Its REALLY intense living here - I lived in the bay from 2004-2014, and moved up here for better COL. I'm riding the wave now, but its getting ever higher and my income needs to increase by the same amount. I'm a developer, but not a superstar - I make more than the median dev income, but that is not enough to afford any sort of permanent housing much of city limits. I am hoping for an economic shock at this point - anything to shake loose all the people holding onto their investment houses while the values are going up, and maybe then all the brand new apartment buildings that wouldn't be able to find tenants might convert to condo's. Supply is desperately needed - even renting is a bloodsport (far more than NYC or even the SF bay, if a little cheaper). Its literally my #1 concern about the area. If the wave rises to the point that I can never achieve housing stability without a 1.5 hour commute, I'll move (just as so many of my friends here have). Colorado and Portland are next, but even there the whispers of NIMBYism are getting louder. I'm beginning to think at this point that the economy is out to get everyone who's under 35 - the only place there are jobs that pay well enough to afford anything are vastly more expensive.
  - doublerebel 8y ago
    We're still more affordable per sqft than most top international cities and many US cities -- I think the mentality of needing a large sqft unit, or yard, or single-family home in Seattle needs to change. We have a ton of parks if anyone needs space. For the quality of life, I still think Seattle is very affordable. That being said, I completely agree that zoning needs to be overhauled.
    - taurath 8y ago
      I want a condo or townhouse. Apparently condos are unfeasible in WA due to state liability laws.
      - binarycrusader 8y ago
        There are plenty of condominiums in WA, especially on the east side.
        moonka 8y ago
        Lots of existing ones, but not a lot under construction. This[1] talks a little bit about why there haven't been a lot of projects in the last few years. http://thelens.news/2018/01/10/the-need-for-condominium-liability-reform/ http://thelens.news/2018/01/10/the-need-for-condominium-liab...
    - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
      Only a few cities are more expensive than Seattle ATM, like LA, SF, NYC, Boston maybe. It isn't as simple as upscaling zoning, you need roads to go with it. West Seattle has horrible traffic these days because they built a bunch of high density housing around California Avenue. They did add rapid bus transit, but everyone still drives even if they have an apartment.
      - doublerebel 8y ago
        Yes we're between 5th [0] and 7th [1] depending on the measure, which is think is appropriate. Most of the places I'd rather live globally are more expensive [2]. [0]: https://nested.com/research/rental/2017/us/all https://nested.com/research/rental/2017/us/all [1]: https://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/real-estate/T006-S001-most-expensive-u-s-cities-to-live-in-2018/index.html https://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/real-estate/T006-S001-mo... [2]: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/admin/100000005486592.embedded.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/admin/1000000054865...
maxharris 8y ago
It won't be for long! Taxes and spending in Seattle have shot way, way up, far in excess of the recent population growth.
- Analemma_ 8y ago
  The insistence that Americans migrate away from high-tax areas doesn't seem to be supported by the facts. Connecticut and the Bay Area are losing population, but so are heartland states like Kansas. Seattle is the fastest-growing area in the country, but close behind is Texas. I don't think partisans on either side of this question have an empirical leg to stand on.
  - maxharris 8y ago
    I lived in Seattle for three years, and I just moved away two months ago.
  - kevinrpope 8y ago
    I tend to agree with you, but Seattle is in a state with 0% income tax, so just because the city’s taxes are rising doesn’t mean they’re net higher than other large cities.
    - doublerebel 8y ago
      Yes, and Texas also has no state income tax. Both are friendly places to small business.
      - Analemma_ 8y ago
        Which I think is the answer to the puzzle: the job and housing markets matter a lot more than the tax situation.
        lend000 8y ago
        It seems like this thread proved the opposite of the point you were trying to make -- that Americans are indeed migrating to states with no state income tax?
slm_HN 8y ago
At this point Seattle is a fairly crummy city in a fairly nice location. The region and climate are nice but the traffic is hell, the crime is bad and the housing costs are astronomical. The tech salaries are high, but it doesn't make up for the otherwise poor quality of life.
- dpark 8y ago
  Poor quality of life? I guess my standards are low, because my quality of life here is great.
- lackbeard 8y ago
  I'm pretty sure crime is far lower in Seattle than other large US cities, especially violent crime.
  - dawnerd 8y ago
    People say the same about crime in Portland too and really it's just property theft/drugs.
    - rurban 8y ago
      Plus Portland gets the same amount of rain, as Seattle.
  - jotux 8y ago
    Why speculate when there's data[1]. City Violent Crime/100k Property Crime/100k Los Angeles 16 60 San Francisco 90 711 DC 79 672 Chicago 33 108 NYC 7 18 Houston 42 193 Seattle 88 808 Portland 77 850 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b...
    - 8y ago

57 points by spking 8y ago

It's fast-growing, but the land-use policy is still oddly parochial in may ways: https://jakeseliger.com/2015/09/24/do-millennials-have-a-future-in-seattle-do-millennials-have-a-future-in-any-superstar-cities https://jakeseliger.com/2015/09/24/do-millennials-have-a-fut.... The vast majority of the city is still zoned for single-family housing: https://www.theurbanist.org/2017/10/23/the-path-to-eliminate-single-family-zoning-in-seattle https://www.theurbanist.org/2017/10/23/the-path-to-eliminate.... Just allowing multi-family housing and eliminating property requirements would do a huge amount to alleviate affordability and income inequality problems.

taurath 8y ago
Its REALLY intense living here - I lived in the bay from 2004-2014, and moved up here for better COL. I'm riding the wave now, but its getting ever higher and my income needs to increase by the same amount. I'm a developer, but not a superstar - I make more than the median dev income, but that is not enough to afford any sort of permanent housing much of city limits. I am hoping for an economic shock at this point - anything to shake loose all the people holding onto their investment houses while the values are going up, and maybe then all the brand new apartment buildings that wouldn't be able to find tenants might convert to condo's. Supply is desperately needed - even renting is a bloodsport (far more than NYC or even the SF bay, if a little cheaper). Its literally my #1 concern about the area. If the wave rises to the point that I can never achieve housing stability without a 1.5 hour commute, I'll move (just as so many of my friends here have). Colorado and Portland are next, but even there the whispers of NIMBYism are getting louder. I'm beginning to think at this point that the economy is out to get everyone who's under 35 - the only place there are jobs that pay well enough to afford anything are vastly more expensive.
- doublerebel 8y ago
  We're still more affordable per sqft than most top international cities and many US cities -- I think the mentality of needing a large sqft unit, or yard, or single-family home in Seattle needs to change. We have a ton of parks if anyone needs space. For the quality of life, I still think Seattle is very affordable. That being said, I completely agree that zoning needs to be overhauled.
  - taurath 8y ago
    I want a condo or townhouse. Apparently condos are unfeasible in WA due to state liability laws.
    - binarycrusader 8y ago
      There are plenty of condominiums in WA, especially on the east side.
      - moonka 8y ago
        Lots of existing ones, but not a lot under construction. This[1] talks a little bit about why there haven't been a lot of projects in the last few years. http://thelens.news/2018/01/10/the-need-for-condominium-liability-reform/ http://thelens.news/2018/01/10/the-need-for-condominium-liab...
  - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
    Only a few cities are more expensive than Seattle ATM, like LA, SF, NYC, Boston maybe. It isn't as simple as upscaling zoning, you need roads to go with it. West Seattle has horrible traffic these days because they built a bunch of high density housing around California Avenue. They did add rapid bus transit, but everyone still drives even if they have an apartment.
    - doublerebel 8y ago
      Yes we're between 5th [0] and 7th [1] depending on the measure, which is think is appropriate. Most of the places I'd rather live globally are more expensive [2]. [0]: https://nested.com/research/rental/2017/us/all https://nested.com/research/rental/2017/us/all [1]: https://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/real-estate/T006-S001-most-expensive-u-s-cities-to-live-in-2018/index.html https://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/real-estate/T006-S001-mo... [2]: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/admin/100000005486592.embedded.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/admin/1000000054865...

maxharris 8y ago

It won't be for long! Taxes and spending in Seattle have shot way, way up, far in excess of the recent population growth.

Analemma_ 8y ago
The insistence that Americans migrate away from high-tax areas doesn't seem to be supported by the facts. Connecticut and the Bay Area are losing population, but so are heartland states like Kansas. Seattle is the fastest-growing area in the country, but close behind is Texas. I don't think partisans on either side of this question have an empirical leg to stand on.
- maxharris 8y ago
  I lived in Seattle for three years, and I just moved away two months ago.
- kevinrpope 8y ago
  I tend to agree with you, but Seattle is in a state with 0% income tax, so just because the city’s taxes are rising doesn’t mean they’re net higher than other large cities.
  - doublerebel 8y ago
    Yes, and Texas also has no state income tax. Both are friendly places to small business.
    - Analemma_ 8y ago
      Which I think is the answer to the puzzle: the job and housing markets matter a lot more than the tax situation.
      - lend000 8y ago
        It seems like this thread proved the opposite of the point you were trying to make -- that Americans are indeed migrating to states with no state income tax?

slm_HN 8y ago

At this point Seattle is a fairly crummy city in a fairly nice location. The region and climate are nice but the traffic is hell, the crime is bad and the housing costs are astronomical. The tech salaries are high, but it doesn't make up for the otherwise poor quality of life.

dpark 8y ago
Poor quality of life? I guess my standards are low, because my quality of life here is great.
lackbeard 8y ago
I'm pretty sure crime is far lower in Seattle than other large US cities, especially violent crime.
- dawnerd 8y ago
  People say the same about crime in Portland too and really it's just property theft/drugs.
  - rurban 8y ago
    Plus Portland gets the same amount of rain, as Seattle.
- jotux 8y ago
  Why speculate when there's data[1]. City Violent Crime/100k Property Crime/100k Los Angeles 16 60 San Francisco 90 711 DC 79 672 Chicago 33 108 NYC 7 18 Houston 42 193 Seattle 88 808 Portland 77 850 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b...
  - 8y ago