6 ms·

Fentanyl is a huge problem in Vancouver, where we are usually ground zero for all new opiate trends. Besides killing over 1100 people a year in BC, the money al

Fentanyl is a huge problem in Vancouver, where we are usually ground zero for all new opiate trends. Besides killing over 1100 people a year in BC, the money also seeps back into our overheated real-estate market through casino money laundering. It is a crazy cycle. I have no idea why world governments and our own don't say and do more against China. Spineless.

vis52 8y ago
When did this start in Vancouver? I am actually surprised that something like this happens in Canada, usually seems that news report these sorts of "epidemics" mostly from the US.
- teunispeters 8y ago
  maybe around when the first logging camps were set up in the early 1800s? It's been here longer than any of the cities have been. Oh, opium and addiction that is. The term "skid row" is said to originate here or Seattle - both have good claim to the term with similar history. Fentanyl has been here for a long time, but it started getting mass imported a few years ago into drug rules and may be connected to why Canada's legalizing pot now. The death rates keep rising.
- selectodude 8y ago
  Downtown Eastside has been what seems the heroin center of North America since the early 1980s, well before it spiraled out of control south of the border.
- nacho2sweet 8y ago
  Vancouver has been addicted to heroin and opiates my whole life, we had a nice flirt with meth in the late 90s early 00's (good frontline on its west coast spread). East Hastings is ground zero. We used to have the highest concentration of AIDS in North America because of needle sharing. Combination of being a main pacific-rim port, mild weather, aboriginal poverty etc. Lots of people are blown away when they get here and see it.
- seanmcdirmid 8y ago
  Vancouver has always been like that. When people talk about drugs and homeless in the streets, Vancouver comes off as even worse than Seattle in many respects.
smallnamespace 8y ago
This is the downside of having global economic integration (buy anything from anywhere for the cost of USPS shipping) without political integration. It's the same type of problem as Greek debtors vs. German creditors except in a different context. Fentanyl analogues are not a problem in China, hence the relative slowness in cracking down on them. The supplier is in China, but the buyer is the West. Why does moral culpability only fall on one party?
- DmenshunlAnlsis 8y ago
  Fentanyl analogues are not a problem in China, hence the relative slowness in cracking down on them. History suggests they will be. China happily exported and exports Ketamine, and are now dealing with a massive problem of heavy Ketamine addicts. It’s gotten so bad that they’ve lobbied internationally to sanction ketamine, which ran into a brick wall for good reasons.1 1 Ketamine is the only general anesthetic that doesn’t require loads of training and respiratory support to use, and as such is on the WHO lost of essentials.
  - atomical 8y ago
    Ketamine has potential as a novel treatment for depression. It's not as addictive as some people would suggest. I have a prescription and it makes me sweat profusely and puke. Hardly enjoyable and I have no interest in dissociation because I want to live in the present. Making Ketamine harder for patients to access is going to destroy a lot of lives. People with depression like myself are already being taken advantage of by Ketamine infusion clinics that charge exorbitant rates. These doctors, often not psychiatrists, could prescribe a lozenge for their patients to take at home if they were serious about helping depressed patients and not lining their pockets.
    - DmenshunlAnlsis 8y ago
      Making Ketamine harder for patients to access is going to destroy a lot of lives. Even putting aside its use as a treatment for depression, restricting Ketamine was deemed unacceptable by the WHO, so don’t worry. It’s really really the only thing going if you need to intervene surgically and don’t have an OR.
AzzieElbab 8y ago
the word you are looking for is corrupt. In some cases indirectly. So many Canadians have all their savings tided up in their homes, the government cannot risk taking drastic steps that might crash the housing market
civilian 8y ago
Hey, here's a crazy thought. Why don't we end the drug war? Then people can easily get safe drugs with accurate dosages. The deaths, money laundering. They're not symptoms of drug dealers, they're symptoms of the drug war. We should clean it up, but it's naive to think that we should just "fight the drug war harder".
- vis52 8y ago
  That's exactly what they did in Portugal and the results have been nothing short of amazing.
  - paulcole 8y ago
    Have you ever thought about writing headlines for Buzzfeed? Edit: I meant that as a compliment.
- andrei_says_ 8y ago
  Hey why don’t we change a few laws and eliminate a few huge government agencies, eliminate the government’s excuse to surveil everyone and the ability to persecute and jail millions of people at will, eliminate the incredibly profitable business of private prisons and eliminate the easy money streams which inevitably end up wetting the pockets of government officials on all levels. This is a lot of power to give up. The people whose jobs benefit from prohibition have a lot of say in this matter and they don’t look eager to unemploy themselves. I think ending the war needs to come with viable solutions for them. We can see that cannabis prohibition is slowly ending. I’m curious how will the prohibition industrial complex adjust. Remember how the DEA keeps testifying about cannabis totally deserving a schedule 1 status? (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.entrepreneur.com/amphtml/313562 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.entrepreneur.com/amphtml/31...) They’re basically answering the question “do you want to stay employed?” And the answer is “yes, absolutely, without a doubt.” Similarly, we can’t go to Saudi Arabia/Canada/Russia/Us etc. and say “Hey, let’s stop extracting oil. It’s not good for the environment. Yes, it’s free money for you, but we want you to stop.” Except that hopefully oil is getting less profitable. Drug prohibition will always be.
- cc439 8y ago
oh-kumudo 8y ago
But China has THE strictest drug law anywhere on the planet. China doesn't consume those drugs, it is because there is a market so they are creating those drugs. Why didn't Canadian government just ban it? Put those dealers into jail and grab their profit? Stricter law enforcement works.
- GW150914 8y ago
  Nonsense. https://thediplomat.com/2015/05/chinas-growing-drug-problem/ https://thediplomat.com/2015/05/chinas-growing-drug-problem/ http://www.williamwhitepapers.com/pr/China_and_Substance_Abuse_Today.pdf http://www.williamwhitepapers.com/pr/China_and_Substance_Abu... As for laws, Singapore or Iran probably have stricter ones in practice.
  - oh-kumudo 8y ago
    > The numbers have only continued to grow since then. In January, Xinhua reported that China handled 52,800 drug cases from late September to December 2014 alone This is probably including Marijuana uses as well, which is already legalized in much part of West. It is the not on the same ground sadly, so I don't think it is nonsense.
    - GW150914 8y ago
      I won’t even get into how you’re contradicting your first point about “strictest laws” and just quote from the first article. It’s apparently spreading north as well – northeastern province Liaoning has been a “major growth area” for drug cases over the past few years, Ma said. Outside analysts believe that North Korea (which borders Liaoning) has become a major source of methamphetamine smuggled into China, although Beijing is reluctant to publicly point the finger at its ally. So, not pot.
mabbo 8y ago
> the money also seeps back into our overheated real-estate market through casino money laundering That's actually not likely how they launder the money. Money laundering regulations in Canada say that large sums of money cashed out an casinos are reported to Fintrac[0], who datamine and analyze that stuff pretty extensively. My knowledge of their capabilities is over a decade old (internship way back), but even then they would catch on if you were moving millions of dollars per year through a casino. Your bank also reports any large transactions or international money transfers- anything over $10k, and that number doesn't adjust with inflation afaik. They have a lot of data and they have built some pretty big cases out of it. [0]http://www.fintrac-canafe.gc.ca/re-ed/casinos-eng.asp http://www.fintrac-canafe.gc.ca/re-ed/casinos-eng.asp
- nacho2sweet 8y ago
  Where you been dude. FINTRAC don't do shit. https://globalnews.ca/news/4149818/vancouver-cautionary-tale-money-laundering-drugs/ https://globalnews.ca/news/4149818/vancouver-cautionary-tale...
  - mabbo 8y ago
    Well shit. Time to update our relations. O_O
- cat199 8y ago
  > large sums of money cashed out an casinos cashed out? that's not how you do it. it's about a corrupt casino funnelling the money in and pretending it is gambling earnings.. see also: the movie 'casino' (unsurprisingly)
  - nacho2sweet 8y ago
    When you return the chips it is called "cashing out". The casino doesn't let you buy in with a duffle bag of $250,000 and cash out for a cheque from the casino for $250,000 in the same transaction. You have to go play a low variance game like Baccarat and play your money through like 200%. Then you cash out $240,000 and get a cheque from the casino that you can easily deposit into a Canadian bank. Gambling winnings in Canada are also tax free.
qop 8y ago
Could it be trillions in debts? Could it be they are aligned with developing countries all over the world with belt and road? Could it be that they have arguably the single most intelligent population in the world? Could it be that though Americans (that includes you canadians, continent-shamers) find their lack of democracy disturbing, Chinese citizens have generally not complained about the past several millennium of rather tyrannical, centralized governance? What a head scratcher... Why, it's almost like they're different people! Edit: oh by the way, there's literally a billion of them
- MajorSauce 8y ago
  Canadians, continent-shamers? Please elaborate.
  - qop 8y ago
    Twas tongue in cheek. No harm intended, I love my estranged moose cousins
msie 8y ago
The local media likes to tie the opioid epidemic, money laundering, real estate prices and foreign ownership into one neat tidy narrative. I don't think it's that simple.
munchhausen 8y ago
Why do you bring "world governments" into it? Most of the world has next to no problem with fentanyl. Why, then, is "most of the world" supposed to "do more against" China? The problems that the US and Canada have with opioids are of their own making, and that's also where they should look for a solution to these problems.

vis52 8y ago

When did this start in Vancouver? I am actually surprised that something like this happens in Canada, usually seems that news report these sorts of "epidemics" mostly from the US.

teunispeters 8y ago
maybe around when the first logging camps were set up in the early 1800s? It's been here longer than any of the cities have been. Oh, opium and addiction that is. The term "skid row" is said to originate here or Seattle - both have good claim to the term with similar history. Fentanyl has been here for a long time, but it started getting mass imported a few years ago into drug rules and may be connected to why Canada's legalizing pot now. The death rates keep rising.
selectodude 8y ago
Downtown Eastside has been what seems the heroin center of North America since the early 1980s, well before it spiraled out of control south of the border.
nacho2sweet 8y ago
Vancouver has been addicted to heroin and opiates my whole life, we had a nice flirt with meth in the late 90s early 00's (good frontline on its west coast spread). East Hastings is ground zero. We used to have the highest concentration of AIDS in North America because of needle sharing. Combination of being a main pacific-rim port, mild weather, aboriginal poverty etc. Lots of people are blown away when they get here and see it.
seanmcdirmid 8y ago
Vancouver has always been like that. When people talk about drugs and homeless in the streets, Vancouver comes off as even worse than Seattle in many respects.

smallnamespace 8y ago

This is the downside of having global economic integration (buy anything from anywhere for the cost of USPS shipping) without political integration. It's the same type of problem as Greek debtors vs. German creditors except in a different context. Fentanyl analogues are not a problem in China, hence the relative slowness in cracking down on them. The supplier is in China, but the buyer is the West. Why does moral culpability only fall on one party?

DmenshunlAnlsis 8y ago
Fentanyl analogues are not a problem in China, hence the relative slowness in cracking down on them. History suggests they will be. China happily exported and exports Ketamine, and are now dealing with a massive problem of heavy Ketamine addicts. It’s gotten so bad that they’ve lobbied internationally to sanction ketamine, which ran into a brick wall for good reasons.1 1 Ketamine is the only general anesthetic that doesn’t require loads of training and respiratory support to use, and as such is on the WHO lost of essentials.
- atomical 8y ago
  Ketamine has potential as a novel treatment for depression. It's not as addictive as some people would suggest. I have a prescription and it makes me sweat profusely and puke. Hardly enjoyable and I have no interest in dissociation because I want to live in the present. Making Ketamine harder for patients to access is going to destroy a lot of lives. People with depression like myself are already being taken advantage of by Ketamine infusion clinics that charge exorbitant rates. These doctors, often not psychiatrists, could prescribe a lozenge for their patients to take at home if they were serious about helping depressed patients and not lining their pockets.
  - DmenshunlAnlsis 8y ago
    Making Ketamine harder for patients to access is going to destroy a lot of lives. Even putting aside its use as a treatment for depression, restricting Ketamine was deemed unacceptable by the WHO, so don’t worry. It’s really really the only thing going if you need to intervene surgically and don’t have an OR.

AzzieElbab 8y ago

the word you are looking for is corrupt. In some cases indirectly. So many Canadians have all their savings tided up in their homes, the government cannot risk taking drastic steps that might crash the housing market

civilian 8y ago

Hey, here's a crazy thought. Why don't we end the drug war? Then people can easily get safe drugs with accurate dosages. The deaths, money laundering. They're not symptoms of drug dealers, they're symptoms of the drug war. We should clean it up, but it's naive to think that we should just "fight the drug war harder".

vis52 8y ago
That's exactly what they did in Portugal and the results have been nothing short of amazing.
- paulcole 8y ago
  Have you ever thought about writing headlines for Buzzfeed? Edit: I meant that as a compliment.
andrei_says_ 8y ago
Hey why don’t we change a few laws and eliminate a few huge government agencies, eliminate the government’s excuse to surveil everyone and the ability to persecute and jail millions of people at will, eliminate the incredibly profitable business of private prisons and eliminate the easy money streams which inevitably end up wetting the pockets of government officials on all levels. This is a lot of power to give up. The people whose jobs benefit from prohibition have a lot of say in this matter and they don’t look eager to unemploy themselves. I think ending the war needs to come with viable solutions for them. We can see that cannabis prohibition is slowly ending. I’m curious how will the prohibition industrial complex adjust. Remember how the DEA keeps testifying about cannabis totally deserving a schedule 1 status? (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.entrepreneur.com/amphtml/313562 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.entrepreneur.com/amphtml/31...) They’re basically answering the question “do you want to stay employed?” And the answer is “yes, absolutely, without a doubt.” Similarly, we can’t go to Saudi Arabia/Canada/Russia/Us etc. and say “Hey, let’s stop extracting oil. It’s not good for the environment. Yes, it’s free money for you, but we want you to stop.” Except that hopefully oil is getting less profitable. Drug prohibition will always be.
cc439 8y ago

oh-kumudo 8y ago

But China has THE strictest drug law anywhere on the planet. China doesn't consume those drugs, it is because there is a market so they are creating those drugs. Why didn't Canadian government just ban it? Put those dealers into jail and grab their profit? Stricter law enforcement works.

GW150914 8y ago
Nonsense. https://thediplomat.com/2015/05/chinas-growing-drug-problem/ https://thediplomat.com/2015/05/chinas-growing-drug-problem/ http://www.williamwhitepapers.com/pr/China_and_Substance_Abuse_Today.pdf http://www.williamwhitepapers.com/pr/China_and_Substance_Abu... As for laws, Singapore or Iran probably have stricter ones in practice.
- oh-kumudo 8y ago
  > The numbers have only continued to grow since then. In January, Xinhua reported that China handled 52,800 drug cases from late September to December 2014 alone This is probably including Marijuana uses as well, which is already legalized in much part of West. It is the not on the same ground sadly, so I don't think it is nonsense.
  - GW150914 8y ago
    I won’t even get into how you’re contradicting your first point about “strictest laws” and just quote from the first article. It’s apparently spreading north as well – northeastern province Liaoning has been a “major growth area” for drug cases over the past few years, Ma said. Outside analysts believe that North Korea (which borders Liaoning) has become a major source of methamphetamine smuggled into China, although Beijing is reluctant to publicly point the finger at its ally. So, not pot.

mabbo 8y ago

> the money also seeps back into our overheated real-estate market through casino money laundering That's actually not likely how they launder the money. Money laundering regulations in Canada say that large sums of money cashed out an casinos are reported to Fintrac[0], who datamine and analyze that stuff pretty extensively. My knowledge of their capabilities is over a decade old (internship way back), but even then they would catch on if you were moving millions of dollars per year through a casino. Your bank also reports any large transactions or international money transfers- anything over $10k, and that number doesn't adjust with inflation afaik. They have a lot of data and they have built some pretty big cases out of it. [0]http://www.fintrac-canafe.gc.ca/re-ed/casinos-eng.asp http://www.fintrac-canafe.gc.ca/re-ed/casinos-eng.asp

nacho2sweet 8y ago
Where you been dude. FINTRAC don't do shit. https://globalnews.ca/news/4149818/vancouver-cautionary-tale-money-laundering-drugs/ https://globalnews.ca/news/4149818/vancouver-cautionary-tale...
- mabbo 8y ago
  Well shit. Time to update our relations. O_O
cat199 8y ago
> large sums of money cashed out an casinos cashed out? that's not how you do it. it's about a corrupt casino funnelling the money in and pretending it is gambling earnings.. see also: the movie 'casino' (unsurprisingly)
- nacho2sweet 8y ago
  When you return the chips it is called "cashing out". The casino doesn't let you buy in with a duffle bag of $250,000 and cash out for a cheque from the casino for $250,000 in the same transaction. You have to go play a low variance game like Baccarat and play your money through like 200%. Then you cash out $240,000 and get a cheque from the casino that you can easily deposit into a Canadian bank. Gambling winnings in Canada are also tax free.

qop 8y ago

Could it be trillions in debts? Could it be they are aligned with developing countries all over the world with belt and road? Could it be that they have arguably the single most intelligent population in the world? Could it be that though Americans (that includes you canadians, continent-shamers) find their lack of democracy disturbing, Chinese citizens have generally not complained about the past several millennium of rather tyrannical, centralized governance? What a head scratcher... Why, it's almost like they're different people! Edit: oh by the way, there's literally a billion of them

MajorSauce 8y ago
Canadians, continent-shamers? Please elaborate.
- qop 8y ago
  Twas tongue in cheek. No harm intended, I love my estranged moose cousins

msie 8y ago

The local media likes to tie the opioid epidemic, money laundering, real estate prices and foreign ownership into one neat tidy narrative. I don't think it's that simple.

munchhausen 8y ago

Why do you bring "world governments" into it? Most of the world has next to no problem with fentanyl. Why, then, is "most of the world" supposed to "do more against" China? The problems that the US and Canada have with opioids are of their own making, and that's also where they should look for a solution to these problems.