29 ms·

Why Is It Hard to Make Friends Over 30? (2012)

• mwfunk 8y ago
  Part of it’s obviously the changing social outlets and life situations as we get older, but IMO the biggest reason is that social interaction for its own sake loses a lot of its luster as people get older. Friendship becomes more focused and personal, alone time becomes much scarcer and more precious, and everyone’s just way less bored all the time. The threat of boredom is always a huge motivator for people to hang out and try not to be bored together. As people get older, that ceases to be a social motivator for many/most people. They may still have a bunch of other reasons for wanting to socialize, but boredom’s not one of them.
• molticrystal 8y ago
  Discussed here with 700+ comments in February: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16424954 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16424954
  • zerostar07 8y ago
    Those threads made an interesting read. A general feeling i got is that random interactions, or interactions loosely based on common interests (like sports) are becoming less successful at making friends, because everyone is more guarded now, but also because people have an expectation of having a more 'tailored' matching processes. So their random interactions often end up frustrating. Interestingly, people who belong to a subculture report success - gay people have it better, but also swingers, another lifestyle (I would add to that the nudists as a very friend-seeking community). Online gaming seems to be a good venue for having that initial "match" of a common interest, as well as meetup groups. While i suspect most people find friends at work, it appears to be an unsatisfactory way for many to make lasting relationships. So, it appears that there is a genuine need here that can be filled by "something that looks a bit like dating". Maybe facebook should consider rolling out a 'friend finder' along with their dating feature. Nevertheless, it seems to have become less of a taboo to admit that people can't find friends, and it seems there is space here for social apps to cover.
    • pmoriarty 8y ago
      "Maybe facebook should consider rolling out a 'friend finder' along with their dating feature." Craigslist used to have a "strictly platonic" section in their personals, but it's gone now along with the rest of their personals.
    • Regardsyjc 8y ago
      Bumble offers a friend finding feature called Bumble BFF. I used it and it works. Basically tinder but for dating.
  • dang 8y ago
    Thanks—so this one is clearly a dupe, yet also such a good discussion that I hate to penalize it off the front page. I think we'll reduce the penalty and let it run. It's rare for a topic to strike a nerve in such a meaningful way, leading to so many high-quality comments.
    • abledon 8y ago
      Is there some site that keeps track of these highly rated comment threads. Certain topics like this one keep popping up and some of the comments/stories on them are a real treat to glimpse into others realities and perceptions of how to live life. The site would probably have recurring topics like: 1. Making Friends / Socializing in our day and age / Loneliness 2. Macbook pro replacements 3. Tesla / SpaceX
      • zerostar07 8y ago
        That sounds like a great startup idea finder.
      • waivek 8y ago
        1. and 2. might be related
• donttrack 8y ago
  When I visit my wifes family in (very) rural China, it kind of reminds me how we used to socially interact back when I was young 20 years ago. People would just pop by back then and sit in my couch for an hour or two, have a talk, watch some TV and get a snack and tea for no particular reason other than they just wanted to come by and it was okay. Everyone is always busy doing something today and everything has to be planned and just popping by feels weird and rude now.. Its funny how people had time to do something like standing in line at the post office to pay their bills back then, but they still managed to spend and hour or two to just be with a friend for no special reason. Maybe it was just a necessity back then without the phones and all and nobody actually really liked to spend time with friends and family. Seems like friendship has been automated somehow today to make it more efficient. I bet that in 1000 years long after human kind has disappeared, there will be friends sending each other automated birthday greetings in one of those solar powered data centers somewhere in Finland.
  • rland 8y ago
    Here in the states, it starts very young. A parent must schedule a playdate beforehand, update it in the google calendar, drive the child 10-15 blocks to their friends house. Parents can then venmo the other family for the time-cost of the play-date. To ensure maximum progress, play date activities must be intellectually stimulating and structured based on how much they contribute to test scores and college admissions down the line—this is known from statistical methods of course. Video streaming smartphone applications enable parents to check in at any time during the activity to ensure maximum growth. As the children grow up, this does not stop of course. In fact, it becomes less playful and more efficient. Time wasted during youth is punished brutally in the holistic college admissions process. By the time we've grown into adults, such impulses—such as spending time at a friends' house for no reason at all—can be completely eliminated. This ensures that more time in adulthood is dedicated to what truly matters, which is.... gosh I'm not sure. I can ponder that after I finish this next 'to do' on my list!
    • adrianratnapala 8y ago
      I enjoy this joke because it tickles my pre-conceptions, that I grew from reading articles on the internet by Americans. But is it really accurate (not in the literal sense obviously)?
• jamesrcole 8y ago
  [Edit: to all the people downvoting this, care to explain why you find it objectionable? The article is trying to explain a phenomenon and it completely ignores the existence of certain kinds of factors that may have an explanatory role. It doesn't even mention them, even to disagree with them. Do think that's not problematic?] I find it disappointing when articles like this don't even consider biological, evolutionary factors that could play a role.
  • eecsninja 8y ago
    Maybe people on this forum aren't as open-minded as they'd like to think.
    • jotm 8y ago
      It's "I'm super progressive" Until "I have a downvote button now motherfuckers"
    • lsh 8y ago
      I think it's exactly that. Hackernews is just another filter bubble and a haven for a particular personality type.
      • dang 8y ago
        > a haven for a particular personality type These perceptions are in the eye of the beholder. Multiply that 10x when it's about "who downvoted me", since there's literally no information then, just a blank screen to project on.
    • Cthulhu_ 8y ago
      What does open-mindedness have to do with a vague statement about biology without going into said actual biology? We're open minded enough, just bring up some actual arguments and facts to support them.
  • geofft 8y ago
    I didn't downvote this, but, this would be a more productive comment if you said what those factors are.
• marcofloriano 8y ago
  In my case marriage was the great motivator for leaving frendiship and not having new friends. My old friends who are single now, still have good friendship, even after 30. I guess my best friend is my wife now.
  • sunseb 8y ago
    Are you sad about that? I think it may not be a good idea to be all in on your girlfriend.
  • zerostar07 8y ago
    the movie "I love you, man" was made for your situation
  • chrisbennet 8y ago
    You’re doing it wrong. :-) Seriously though, marriage doesn’t mean you can’t have friends, keep friends or make new ones. It’s a twisted sort of relationship that requires you to give up your friends or only spend time with your wife. My wife is my best friend but my 2 out my 3 kayak buddies are women, I spend that day with friends helping them build motors, I go on road trips with friends, I go off for mountain biking weekend and ski trips with my friends, etc. I will say, my friends who have kids do tend to drop off the radar but you can’t blame that on marriage.
    • cm2012 8y ago
      Research I've seen generally says close opposite sex friendships are a bad idea. an abstract of this study sums up the literature: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://bleske-rechek.com/April%2520Website%2520Files/Bleske-Rechek%2520et%2520al.%25202012%2520Benefit%2520or%2520Burden.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjfypqP8fLaAhXNwFkKHQPdC8QQFjABegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw2_hRdXxxoHV__G8wk8U6_V https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://...
      • chrisbennet 8y ago
        I don’t doubt that, statistically speaking, that is true.
• imd23 8y ago
  I'm 25 and it hard as f*.
  • nxc18 8y ago
    Yeah I feel this. 24ish and I never really experienced the 'so easy to make friends in high school and college'. I guess not so much that it wasn't easy, I just wasn't in a place where I wanted more than one or two close friends. As a result, I never really got practice. I think once you figure out what you want (way harder than it sounds like) it becomes just another thing to work on, like going to the gym. I've been making new friends lately, partly by globbing on to some of my roommate's local friends, and it's been easy since I decided to let it be (apologies for the cryptic sentence, I'm still not sure exactly what I'm trying to say). Actually I think it's way easier than the gym, but I've only got a small sample size, and I'm particularly bad at going to the gym.
  • ntsplnkv2 8y ago
    The line isn't "your thirties." The line is when you graduate college. The fact is school is the biggest reason why we make so many friends. Different classes, different people, from grade school to college. Food is taken care of by adults or the dining hall. parents pay the bills or it's covered by your student loan. Then you graduate. Now you must: spend time to cook, work to pay bills, and if you have an SO/kids, the rest of your time goes there. That's literally it.
    • amyjess 8y ago
      > The line isn't "your thirties." > The line is when you graduate college. I agree with this, but with one caveat: it's a slow process, and it takes years to fully take effect. The process of your friend groups disintegrating does indeed begin with your college graduation, but it takes so long for the effects to be really felt that a lot of people don't realize their friend groups have disintegrated until around the time they hit 30.
      • ntsplnkv2 8y ago
        Yes for sure, it isn't sudden. I think right after college people "settle down" at different times. Some marry early, some later. Marriage and kids are huge time sinks. By 30 many are married. The more that are married means less time for friends, and slowly those "groups" wither away to the most important.
• monksy 8y ago
  Why is it hard to make friends? ---- Answer: You don't put effort into doing that.
  • asdsa5325 8y ago
    But if you do put in effort, it's still hard
    • monksy 8y ago
      When's the last time you invited someone out to lunch? When's the last time you invited people out for drinks or to your place? When's the last time you threw a party? That's literally how hard it is. Do stuff with people.
      • your-nanny 8y ago
        It's hard because they don't have the time either. Kids, soccer practice, gym, and so on. For a lot of people in a lot of places not called the bay area, people move to a town and find themselves a church. The church organizes provides all kinds of opportunities to socialize and make friends in a non competitive in-group sort of way. I'm not religious, and think that organizing life around church can promote certain myopic attitudes, but I can see how this kind of access to an egalitarian community of worship can really have benefits
        • monksy 8y ago
          Find a way to involve the community in with your chores. You've mentioned one of the biggest values of churches. They still exist in the bay area even if they aren't "cool"
        • pbhjpbhj 8y ago
          >I can see how this kind of access to an egalitarian community of worship / Lol, you can tell you're not a churchgoer ... /jk (but not entirely)
• bwang29 8y ago
  Is it socially awkward to admit that one has no friend after 30?
  • meesterdude 8y ago
    Yes - but that doesn't make it bad, nor something to identify with. I myself would rather be alone than around the wrong people
• lsh 8y ago
  It's not, try harder
  • tstrimple 8y ago
    "It's not hard. Try harder." For real?
    • sheepmullet 8y ago
      > "It's not hard. Try harder." > For real? Of course! I'll add in the subtext: It's not hard compared to other common activities adults do a decent job of. Try harder because it takes time and effort to make friends but not an unreasonable amount.
    • lsh 8y ago
      Yes for real, make an effort and stop complaining (and downvoting ;)
  • chrisseaton 8y ago
    ...if people need to try harder... then it's hard for them isn't it?
  • dang 8y ago
    Please don't post shallow dismissals. A good critical comment teaches us something. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
• downandout 8y ago
  From the article: "Editor’s note: This article first ran on July 13, 2012, but we’re running it again because the topic is timeless." I see this kind of thing happening more and more. Looking at the tags on the page, it bears a modified date of 2018-02-09T19:25:10-05:00. This is important, because they are telling Google that the content has been updated, when it hasn't. But they'll get more traffic and revenue now from an old article by lying to Google. You see this happening on TV now too. In a technique I call "DVR Fraud," shows like 60 Minutes, which are made up of a few 15-30 minute segments per episode, are mixing and matching segments from old shows and creating "new" episodes with nothing new in them except for brief commentary explaining "as we first showed you in 20XX...". They are marked as "new" in the program guide, and if you have set your DVR to record only new episodes of that show, it will record this rehashed content. TV networks and websites are abusing automated services and tools like Google and your DVR to generate new revenue from old, rehashed content. I despise regulation, but I think somebody needs to take a look at least at the DVR Fraud issue. It is becoming a large-scale fraud, as it is being used to artificially inflate Nielsen ratings, and likely siphon millions of ad dollars based upon viewership that would never have watched the content had it been properly labeled as a rerun.
  • chrisseaton 8y ago
    > DVR Fraud > a significant problem This is way over-dramatic for re-runs of TV shows. I can't believe you think this is a problem so grave that it needs state intervention!
    • downandout 8y ago
      I basically only watch TV from my DVR. So yes, for me, having to sift through the recorded "new" episodes only to think "oh I remember this one" is annoying. Worse, they are doing it on purpose to artificially inflate their ratings and ad revenue.
      • nitrogen 8y ago
        "Clip show" episodes have been a cheap trick used by TV fiction for ages. Now they are doing it on the news? I guess it was inevitable that someone would eventually put the concepts together.
• LogicX 8y ago
  Relevant: https://waitbutwhy.com/2014/12/10-types-odd-friendships-youre-probably-part.html https://waitbutwhy.com/2014/12/10-types-odd-friendships-your... When I read that two weeks ago, I reached out to an acquaintence who I wished to 'move up' the friend tier structure, because he (and his wife) fit into the Healthy & Enjoyable quandrant. Last weekend they came over to see an air show. Today they invited my wife and I out on their boat. We all had an amazing time. We're all in our 30s. It's tough. But I like to idea of focusing on the ones which can make an impact, and are healthy and make you happy having them as friends. I'm an advocate for fewer, closer friendships.
  • donttrack 8y ago
    I find it interesting that we are trying to quantify friendship and understand it with distribution charts like in that blog post. Like it is some kind of lost art.
    • deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
• eecsninja 8y ago
  People go their separate ways in their 20s. There is less of the shared struggle that characterized college camaraderie. It also becomes harder to line up schedules to keep in touch with old friends. Back in college, at least everyone was on the same academic calendar.
• delbel 8y ago
  it isn't hard at all practically everyone I meet becomes a friend. How much time do I have to dedicate to friendship? Practically none, but that doesn't stop them from coming over --sometimes to much. Just don't be so judgmental. There's also this toxic ideology that unfortunately has swept the society that promotes defeatism, victimhoodization, promoting sociopaths ways of judging people, locking in your thinking through group think/wrong think. This ideology use to be a good value in our society before it was hijcked, it promoted peace and anti-war, individual liberties, as long as you didn't hurt another person. Now its been hijacked by very evil people and it has entrapped people into defeating themselves. Once you free yourself from this toxic way of thinking, the world is everything that you make good of it. Everyone wants to join you and make it more wonderful. It is truly the greatest time to live and have friends.
  • meesterdude 8y ago
    How do you deal with making plans with someone, only to be stood up?
    • delbel 8y ago
      this happens a lot with me, and it annoys me. First I try to establish if it just a good reason that I don't know about. 99% of the time, this is the reason. They either forgot, had an emergency, or got to busy. Second, I consider the other possibility that they intentionally did this. If this is the case, they are trying to show a "power move" or superiority over you, aka "I am better then you and this is my power I ditched you" When you fully think it out, these people are actually powerless and sad. They lack self confidence in themselves, they lack power over themselves, so much that they have to artificially make up scenarios where they feel empowered. This is basically the definition of a sociopath. So immediately you don't want to be friends when them once you realize this. Also, you want to check critically to see if you have any of this type of thinking inside of you and move to get rid of it. So also, this happens a lot in business. Sometimes you have to deal with it. I had very prompent lawyer stood me up 3 times. Eventually, somehow, she wanted me to do something. We were to meet and I give her access to a conference she wanted to go to. I became ill and couldn't make it, I called ahead. Apparently she didn't get my message and got stuck at the conference waiting for me Eventually they let her in when she namedropped me. It was totally unintential, but basically I mirrored what she did to me back to her. Long story short we became friends as far as professional. I use mirroring a lot in business like this -- if you respond to my email in 3 days, I wait 3 days. If you call only during business hours, I make sure I do the same. If you return my calls immediately, I do the same. So but that's business. In friendship, consider yourself lucky you dodged a bullet. One way to test if they honestly forgot or whatever circumstances is to never bring it up or bring it up in a way where you establish if you can tell by their body language that they got pleasure by ditching you. An honest person will feel bad about it. A dishonest person will feel powerful and haply spiteful. I'm not the best at articulating all of this, you will need to think this out for yourself. You have to take their power away by not getting upset. Its the same when somebody is bullying you and you laugh at their jokes with them, they get upset and mad. If they are a good person, it goes away after a while perhaps you become great friends. Some people do this as a way of protecting themselves from risk also, its about self confidence. Again, our society is broken with this toxic ideaology. Right now, bad things happen to good people, and good things happen to bad people. Its changing, but right now sociopaths are being rewarded and honest people aren't. Just don't give them the power over you to make you upset and they go away.
• LifeLiverTransp 8y ago
  Its usually the way we train ourselves to behave in work environments. Spontanity only gets you into trouble. Nobody can be really trusted, everything better be documented. Work kills the ability to make friends, because you see how all those former "friends" crawl over each other to backstab one another and get to the top of the pile.
  • nocman 8y ago
    Wow, I'm glad I don't work where a bunch of folks here evidently work. I've make plenty of friends at work and I don't see a lot of backstabbing and jockeying for positions. I simply would not stay in a work enviornment like that.
    • asada02u 8y ago
      You're a lucky guy,then. I think I belong to the unlucky ones.
• raz32dust 8y ago
  In Germany, I witnessed a multi-family household. A married couple bought the house. Then they had kids, but they divorced amicably yet continued to live in the same house. Then each of them found a new partner who also started living in the same house. Now they are like friends, with 3 couples living together, and 5 kids in the house. It's hard for me to imagine living like that, the stress that would take, but they seem to be happy with the arrangement and they hang out together and take care of each other's kids. That might be a better model for society in the future. Not necessarily marrying, but living in a close community with your friends. It is interesting to think about the logistics and social changes that need to happen for this to work, though.
  • legostormtroopr 8y ago
    But where did the third couple come from? Is this a riddle?
    • ataturk 8y ago
      Plus, what kind of weirdos get divorced, then stay together with other partners in the mix? It reminds me of that Futurama episode where Frye has to share a girlfriend with a whole bunch of other guys.
    • tedunangst 8y ago
      When two couples like each very much...
      • raz32dust 8y ago
        Haha yea I meant 2 couples. Can't seem to edit now.
  • Cthulhu_ 8y ago
    I know a couple of polygamous / polyamorous people on the internet, I don't know how they manage but apparently some people are wired like that where they can tolerate other people in intimate relationships.
• steve19 8y ago
  I have made plenty of friends after the age of 30. The problem is that is is hard work. New friendships consume more time than old friends. The ratio of people actively befriending me, is lower than people I befriend. Maybe 3:1 Making me think most people don't put much effort into making friends. My advice would be: 1. Networking is not making friends. If you want to leverage someone, it's a business relationship not a friendship. 2. People who befriend you might not be the kind of person you would choose to be your friend, but they obviously like you enough to make an effort so give them a chance and reciprocate. People probably try to befriend you but you don't even notice. 3. Let bad or superficial friendships go and concentrate on making good ones. I have loads of really close friends, but keep my Facebook friend count (relatively) low. 4. If a friend is having a problem, help them. This is how you move past the superficial friendship. Prove you are worthy of being a friend. 5. Never screw a friend over. See rule #1. If you intend to play a zero sum game with a friend, be willing to lose that friend. (I do business with good friends, but only if I know I will never be in a position to have to choose between my wealth/happiness and theirs). Also always be honest. Friendship requires trust. 6. Make an effort. Ask people out for a drink or a coffee. Invite them over for dinner. It's hugely time consuming. This week I am running out of time with friends wanting to hang out and friends who need help. But it's worth it. 7. Join clubs, organizations and/or religious institutions. Not just one. Friends of mine had good success with dance classes. 8. One close friend is worth hundreds of superficial friendships.
  • Theodores 8y ago
    For many people their partner is their best friend. As a rule it is just the one partner. There is much benefit in being monogamous. Polygamy or frequent changes to whom the partner is comes at quite a cost in time and effort. Similarly with friendships, there is a cost to having 'hundreds of close friends' (as if such a thing could happen). There is also a cost in trying to push one's 'friends quota' beyond what we have (5-6 close friends) to a wider circle of not-so-close friends. Yet some people - those with 500 Facebook friends - think that having more than the small circle of close friends is a desirable thing, which it may be but only in the way that having a harem of partners is a desirable thing. There is also the matter of being part of a community. We all need to belong. Yet too many people hop in their car, drive out their driveway and never say hi to the neighbours. Superficial neighbourhood friendships are fine. The guy who you say hello to whilst you are walking the dog is okay to say hello to even if he votes differently to you. That superficial chat about the weather is okay. Recently had a funeral to attend, of a neighbour. Although this was a well attended service I was quite surprised at how some people chose not to go to the wake. Those dog-walking saying-hellos do actually matter, this was what made the funeral mandatory for me but meh for those that did not care to go. By actively going to a church group or dance class I didn't really have my heart into I think the resultant relationships would be as fake as my belief in god/dancing in silly shoes. Your friend might think he/she has success but there may be others in the group who think that he/she is a sad letch rather than someone passionate about what they are doing. Joining a dance class to shed a few pounds (rather than to get laid) is legit though.
• fardo 8y ago
  I think the elephant in the room for making new friends over 30, is stagnation in one's daily routine caused by one's job. I don't think anything changed dramatically in the last 60 or so years on this point, even with the development of social media; by the time you're 30, you're basically done making friends. The article glossed over it, but in your childhood and teens, you're surrounded by a new group of people every 5 or so years, and just through sheer quantity, you're likely to make at least a few friends. Throw on team sports, extracurriculars, clubs, and the ease of introductions in a school environment, and it's almost impossible not to make a few friends all the way into your late 20s. Somewhere around when you turn 25 or so, though, without substantial effort, things stabilize. If you were going to leave your home, you probably did, and you're settled in. You and your old friends start to marry and have kids, and both of these occupy your free time (and theirs). You may have bought a house or found a job you want to settle into for a while, with plans to stick around for several years. For at least 8 hours of your day, you are at work, interacting with people in an environment toxic for creating trusting friendships (You're competing for the same roles, titles, bonuses, etc.), and worse, these people you're competing with are almost always the exact same people, so if you're not really friends with any of them immediately, that's basically never going to change. With the remaining time in your evenings, you'll also settle into a routine. You won't be playing sports anymore, and if you have hobbies, you'll generally be doing them with the same small consistent set of people in your area, assuming you do them with others at all. So, in short, if your 8-hour workday isn't a time to make friends, and you're not interacting with people in a way that leads to making friends in your 8-hour evenings, when the hell do you expect to be making your friends over 30, during your 8-hours asleep?
  • nocman 8y ago
    Maybe it depends on where you live, but I'm over 30 and I've made friends with coworkers from probably every job I've ever had in my adult life. Sure I've dealt with a few jerks at work, but very few of the relationships have felt adversarial. I certainly would not call most of my workplaces environments "toxic for creating trusting friendships". I don't know, maybe you need to be more particular about where you work.
    • 8y ago
• yyyu 8y ago
  Women are tired of fucking in modern times by 30. That's why no friends.
• deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
• maym86 8y ago
  Put effort into a group activity or club that isn't work and you'll make friends. Regularly meeting the same people eventually turns into friendship.
  • humanrebar 8y ago
    Making church friends is really easy for this reason. I'd like to see an actual study, but I suspect it's not hard for people who regularly attend religious services to make friends.
  • Cthulhu_ 8y ago
    I've had this over time with work, school, etc; I get along great with people, but the moment I move on to another school or another job or whatever, I lose contact. I'm not the type to reach out to people or offer to hang out, and given I don't get similar invitations, I guess others aren't like that OR there's an air about me that indicates I wouldn't appreciate it. Which is probably not wrong, I mean my infrequent meetups with my childhood friend are awkward at best, we watch a movie and have a chat or something but that's it.
• deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
• starkruzr 8y ago
  Living in Washington, DC with a lot of other people who are over the age of 30 and still single, it's not as hard as I anticipated it would be, actually. The key is to have reasons to bring people together. I'm in a karaoke club, and a programming meetup, and several other things, and my social life is pretty healthy as a result. With parenthood in the mix, you have to get really aggressive about scheduling, but it's still not impossible.
• squiggleblaz 8y ago
  I haven't read the article. My reply is not a response to the article, but intended for an audience who might think their life is looking all downhill from here. In my late 20s my life looked like downhill. I had had friends but I had no friends at that point. I was single and alone. I was depressed and anxious. The only good thing I had going for me was that I had a job. Just before I turned 30 I was fortunate to come across a video on youtube which pointed out that there were various quite impressive personages who were at 30 failures and only became the impressive persons after that date. I don't have to become a genius, but it's nice to know that our society's rich privilege that favors young people says nothing about human nature. Life can get better from any starting point, and there's nothing wrong with ageing. And then I joined a community where I was able to find friends. (In my case, it's the Esperanto community.) Now I'm engaged to someone I met through the community (though she's not an Esperantist) and my own personal community of friends has expanded even further. Now I've got the opposite problem I used to have - I have so many friends I struggle to balance them all (and my own need to have some empty time - perhaps higher than average because I became so accustomed to being alone). It happened in only a few short years (today I'm almost 34, but it feels like I've got another life). My fiancee regards me as an optimist - anyone who knew me five years ago would be shocked. And all this is to say nothing about the changes I've witnessed in my parents' lives in the same period. It might be harder for humans to get friends after 30 but you don't need to think "I'm a friendless blahblah year old, what hope is there for me?".
  • craftyguy 8y ago
    TIL about Esperanto. Sounds interesting.
  • antognini 8y ago
    Saluton, samideanton! Kiel vi trovis tiun komunumon? Kaj kiel vi trovis vian fianĉinon tra esperantlingva komunumo? Mi pensas, ke estas rakonto tie.
  • simsla 8y ago
    As someone who's in the same boat (Late twenties. Moved to a country where I don't know anyone. "Discovered" that most people already have friends, and they don't materialise spontaneously as they used to at uni.), your comment resonates with me. What do you think is required to bond at these things? I've done a couple of after-work activities in an attempt to socialise, but I haven't struck gold yet. (At cooking class, people seem more interested in catching their train, than socialising afterwards.) It's occurred to me that any out of hours activity just has far less social exposure than what I'm used to. For example, at school you'd sit next to someone for 8 hours a day. To get the same kind of exposure from a weekly 1 or 2-hour class would take 1 or two months! I'm wondering if you have any thoughts about which aspects helped bridge this in your case. A deep, shared interest in Esperanto? Luck? Nothing in particular?
• miqkt 8y ago
  Having just turned 31 recently, this read hits hard with my own experiences. From time to time I worry I'll end up languishing in old age due to loneliness without a network of supportive friends. Some seem to reiterate the importance of time investment into the search for new friends. I agree with this. The more you put yourself out there, the odds would hopefully be more in your favour. However, the guarantee of the outcome isn't there. One could spend hours, days, months joining various hobby and interest groups with such an agenda and still end up with nothing. It's almost like after a certain age, new friendships become more incentivised. The friendship itself only exists because it can be rationalised with mutual benefits.
  • oceanman888 8y ago
    Before that certain age, we do not "try" to make friends. We live with them physically. Turns out human are not that suited to "look for friends" when they actually need them.
  • objplant 8y ago
    I would suggest not to join a hobby, interest group etc. with an agenda of making friends. I think such a plan might create some unnecessary mental pressure on one's behaviour. On the other hand if you join a group with a topic that really interests you, chances are you'll be sorrounded with at least some like-minded people. And then, if you casually fall into a conversation with someone, then you grab the opportunity for making an acquaintance. And that person might some day turn into a friend.
• jackcosgrove 8y ago
  Because we have fewer and fewer shared experiences as our lives diverge and specialize. I'll go out on a limb and say that there's no such thing as a fixed personal identity that is some ineffable quality of everyone. Presumably people with similar identities could bond at any time of their lives, but I haven't found that to be the case. You are what you do and think, and people keep changing. As society becomes more complex with more unique niches, and also becomes less colocated, the chances that you find someone in person with similar experiences keeps declining. Sure you can go online but we all know that's not the same.
• rgrieselhuber 8y ago
  Anecdotally, a lot of men in my circle complain that their wives won't let them spend time with other men, outside of family gatherings. Definitely not healthy, definitely needs to be remedied.
  • Cthulhu_ 8y ago
    That really ties in with another post I read a while ago - the running gags at weddings and such where the wife is referred to as "the ol' ball and chain", where the man's life is basically over and he's emasculated for life by the wife. I mean all of those 'jokes' make it sound like a really unhealthy and abusive relationship. No wonder people don't get married as much anymore.
    • vorhuts 8y ago
      It's not really a joke, statistically.
  • amyjess 8y ago
    I think we need to recognize this problem for what it is: spousal abuse. Telling someone they can't have friends outside the marriage is straight-up emotional abuse, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.
• amyjess 8y ago
  I'm 33, and this hits pretty hard. Ever since I graduated college, I've watched my circle of friends dwindle over the years, as all of us have busy lives and don't have much room for socialization, especially not when factoring in each other's schedules. I stopped talking to one of the few close friends I had left after he married an extremist tradcon and started posting a constant stream of hate. It's really disheartening to watch a guy who used to be one of the most compassionate people I know post memes with slurs in them (including slurs against a group I'm part of), videos by Neo-Nazis, rants about how Jimmy Kimmel's done deserves to die, etc. He went from being like a brother to me to being someone I never want to talk to again. And even before he completely jumped down the alt-right rabbit hole, as soon as he started dating her, I would never see him without her ever again. It was draining inviting him to hang out places and him always bringing his then-girlfriend who I hated with him every single time. Even when I went to buy him expensive scotch at a bar to congratulate him on his engagement (because even though I hate her guts, I was still happy for him that he found someone), she decided to tag along (seriously, that was supposed to be a private moment between me and him)... I really regret wasting that money on scotch for both of them given what he's turned into. In the last month, I have set foot of my house to socialize exactly once, and that was for a friend's birthday party... so that's not going to happen again for another year. Facebook has been a godsend, because it's basically the only way I talk to most people anymore. Through Facebook, I can stay in touch with a bunch of people who I wouldn't have the opportunity to see in real life. I have a ton of friends I get along with really well but for various reasons none of us are able to get together in real life, so Facebook it is. It doesn't help that I have no interest in getting married or having children. In fact, the idea of either sickens me. So as everybody else is pairing off to get married or spending 99% of their free time taking care of kids, I'm stuck by myself. I just wish I had more single (and preferably asexual) friends to hang with. I actively hate being in my 30s. I wish I was in college again, because I really miss the vibrant social life I had back then.
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  • exit 8y ago
    > I wish I was in college again, because I really miss the vibrant social life I had back then. i've found it much easier to maintain a "vibrant social life" in a city. do you live in the suburbs, or somewhere even less densely populated?
• lkrubner 8y ago
  I’ve recently started throwing a monthly dinner party and I invite a diverse group that pulls in people from work and politics and theater and other places I’ve lived. I’ve found this is a good way to build a stable social group, especially here in New York, where people are so busy the once-a-month structure is useful, the dinner becomes a not too often but still recurring event. Once a month is about the right frequency. I recall that my parents used to have dinner parties all the time, out in the suburbs during the 1970s/1980s and their friends also had dinner parties. There was a culture of dinner parties among adults back then. For some reason it died out. But I think the idea, and the habit, is a useful one.
• spyckie2 8y ago
  I'm going to throw out a controversial statement: It's hard because adults don't (and rightfully shouldn't) make friends a priority. When you're young (<20), you don't have many responsibilities or long term goals. But as soon as you get out of college, you have several multi-decade goals to work towards: 1) asset accumulation 2) lifestyle development 3) family raising From a pure risk management point of view, assets, lifstyle, and family are much more stable in terms of extracting value from. Friends, from a value added point of view, are a risky investment for a couple of reasons. They require time and commitment to make and get value out of, but have a high chance of no return. If you invest too much in friends, you're pretty much guaranteed that something out of your control breaks the friendship by 5-10 years, either moving away, diverging interests, or the most likely, the friend decides to invest time in the assets, lifestyle, and family instead of your friendship. There's a vicious circle (opposite of virtuous cycle) in this. As a society, if more people focus on family, assets, and lifestyle because they are less risky, there's less people willing to commit to being a friend available for those that want to focus on friendships, and eventually friendship by the age of 30 become extinct except in rare cases where special environments sustain them. To summarize, it's a systemic issue where even if you wanted to make friends, it's not worth it as an adult to do so.
  • zasz 8y ago
    Friendship is worth it. Loneliness is a serious threat to your health. It keeps your cortisol levels elevated. The effect on your health is comparable to a bad smoking habit. According to this study, mortality goes up by at least 26%: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25910392 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25910392 Anyway, what's the point of having a lot of assets if you don't enjoy your life at the end?
    • hardwaresofton 8y ago
      Despite research to support that I think the problem might lie in that friendship may not seem worth it. Societies can emphasize individual independence, and technology can amplify it in real terms, making human interaction not necessarily where it once was. Why have lots of friends when so much of the immediately-obvious utility can be bridged by some other services? Where neighbors used to possibly serve as an extension to your resources (a large ladder, sugar, someone to sign a package for you maybe), these days solutions (often technological) have sprung up to reduce the necessity of working together (rent-a-tool shops/sites, ease of transportation, configurable delivery). Of course, the negative effects of restricted social networks are being felt now in communities (poor cohesion) and individually (mental health issues)... Tech helps sometimes (connecting people who might feel isolated in their immediate surroundings) and can hurt a lot of the time as well.
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• your-nanny 8y ago
  For a lot of people in a lot of places not called the bay area, people move to a town and find themselves a church. The church organizes provides all kinds of opportunities to socialize and make friends in a non competitive in-group sort of way. I'm not religious, and think that organizing life around church can promote certain myopic attitudes, but I can see how this kind of access to an egalitarian community of worship can really have benefits
  • montecarl 8y ago
    I am not religious, but regularly attend my wife's church. I agree with this. Church really does provide a great community. I'm very curious about what a secular alternative to church would even look like. I get to meet people of all ages from all kinds of backgrounds every week. I have made friends of all ages (at least one in 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s). These aren't just people I know, but people that I could call, if needed, and they would help me. People who would gladly come over to my house for dinner. I work from home, and would have little chance to meet new people if it wasn't for church. Its been quite a surprised to me, as an atheist in his 30s that church would become an important part of my life!
    • Regardsyjc 8y ago
      There are churches for atheists. The religious cultural beliefs of a welcome opening community are a huge factor for church but as someone else has mentioned, I think regular planned meetings are also a key factor. I started hosting board games once a month and it made it a lot easier to maintain and grow friendships for everyone. So I would say any group for any activity that meets regularly, whether for video games, books, athletics, etc are also good places to foster friendship.
      • Cthulhu_ 8y ago
        I don't like that idea, or the whole atheism movement - it's like they turned a religion out of not believing, reading Dawkins instead of the bible. What do those churches do / talk about anyway? If it's people going on about why / how they don't believe, it's not for me. Or is it more like a humanistic church?
• poisonarena 8y ago
  this is something I see once a month on HN but is always relevant to me
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• agumonkey 8y ago
  biology ? after teen years your brain's primary focus will be sexual bonding and then children
• sametmax 8y ago
  It's not. I'm still making new friends regularly. It's not about the age. It's about your lifestyle and your desire to make friends. It just happens that a lot of people, around 30, prioritize some life styles that makes you less social. Also, they are trying to make something out of what they have right now, instead of getting something new.
• rezoner 8y ago
  I find it easier to make meaningful relations now that I am past 30. Usually these start with doing something that really matters together and on top of that I have way better access to people who match my intelectual profile. Maybe it's simply because I am a person who goes out looking for good things to happen not wait for them to come.
• saxatrumpet 8y ago
  >Basically, she suggests, this is because people have an internal alarm clock that goes off at big life events, like turning 30. I disagree with this notion that adults at the age of 30 shift their focus to children when the average age of first time mothers has steadily risen to 26.3 years old since 1970. I feel like the general points made in this article apply more to 35-40 year olds as I know there are plenty of people in their early 30's still focused on growing their social circles without settling down with a family yet.
• tarkin2 8y ago
  Most of the 20s social activities are there to find mates. In our 30s an increasing number no longer need to do this, and another number don't have the time anyway due to work or family. In our 20s we still have our school friends, and they introduce us to their friends. We study and make friends. They introduce us to their friends. There's always a few parties. I'm those parties mostly everyone is looking for a boyfriend or girlfriend. We're in the same boat. We have common aims. In our 30s, those school friends have largely disappeared. We stop studying and stop meeting fellow students. The parties dry up: more and more of those people now have found someone and find no need to "party". You have your workplace. But if you're a manager your friends are often brown-nosing. And if you're not, office or company politics may interfere. And those left may need to rush back to look after their kids anyway. The best thing I've found is volunteering. You meet new people, you form new friendships, you learn new skills, you help your community, your week now probably involves at least a little more exercise.
• goshx 8y ago
  This article actually makes me feel better for living in the US for almost a decade, now in my mid 30’s, having less real friends here than fingers in my left hand.
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• edem 8y ago
  This post from Wait But Why is relevant I think: https://waitbutwhy.com/2014/12/10-types-odd-friendships-youre-probably-part.html https://waitbutwhy.com/2014/12/10-types-odd-friendships-your...
• overcast 8y ago
  Just about to turn 38, and it's certainly true that after college, friends ramp down significantly. You'll stay in touch with a handful maybe if you're lucky. If you're a male, that number is usually much smaller than a female. My suggestion, find a hobby, a side venture, whatever it is, that integrates you into the local social scene. A few years ago I started doing food/cocktail promotion and the amount of social experiences I've had since then has skyrocketed, and yes some actual friends have come of it. They may not be childhood close friends level, but we're all on the same page. Everyone knows it's hard, and that's why we get together.
• protomok 8y ago
  I can definitely resonate with this line: "Once people start coupling up, the challenges only increase. Making friends with other couples “is like matchmaking for two,” said Kara Baskin, a journalist who works in Boston." From experience, finding new couple friends appears to be impossible. The difficulty is even quantifiable. For example, to make a friend person A must like person B, and vice versa, or expressed as a permutation: P(2,2)=2 units of difficulty. But to make a couple friend the difficulty increases to P(4,2)=12...a 6x increase :( Has anyone had success finding couple friends?