14 ms·

Canadian here (who lives outside of Canada but recently did a stint there for a bit) and this will sound negative but f-it. Canadian culture sucks when it come

by _xzxj 8y ago

Canadian here (who lives outside of Canada but recently did a stint there for a bit) and this will sound negative but f-it. Canadian culture sucks when it comes to trying new things. Canada has some extra safety net but the culture is puritanical and conservative and nobody wants to go out on a limb and try something new and crazy. Not like Americans. Those that do are constantly questioned by everybody. The idea of being an entrepreneur, in the GTA especially, is buying a second house in the suburbs and hoping the housing market continues rising. The problem of trying to get Canadian tech up to par with the US is much deeper than pulling some tax/incentive levers, I think. There are some really deep cultural issues that I don't think can be solved for a few generations.

ajeet_dhaliwal 8y ago
The idea of being an entrepreneur, in the GTA especially, is buying a second house in the suburbs and hoping the housing market continues rising. That had me LOL because I think it’s so true. If you were to suggest perhaps to start a business that innovates you’d be considered crazy. Although of course the new tech out of the USA will be adopted by all immediately.
- vkou 8y ago
  You'd be considered crazy, because you can't throw a brick, and hit a VC that will give you money for a no team, no product, no idea startup. You'd also be considered crazy if you expressed those ideas in Chicago or San Diego, or Charleston, but that doesn't mean that we stereotypes about America not respecting 'changemakers' are accurate.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
ryanobjc 8y ago
The liberalness of Canada is overhyped. The reality is Canada is deeply conservative. It's possible to have universal health care and be conservative, that's only a oxymoron in the US. To quote this excellent article[1]: "the default setting of the Canadian male: a dull but stern dad, who, under a facade of apparent normalcy and common sense, conceals a reserve of barely contained hostility toward anyone who might rock the boat. To these types, those who make a fuss are bothersome and ignorant at best, and probably dangerous and destructive too." I was born in Canada. I went to school in Canada. Only once I moved to the US did I feel like I could express and be myself. That I am surrounded by people who think like I do and value the things I value. Dogmatic adherence to the way it's done, because change is dangerous is the default state of many Canadians. For those who it's not, well, you know them, they're already living in the US. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/06/opinion/jordan-peterson-canadian-deference.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/06/opinion/jordan-peterson-c...
- digianarchist 8y ago
  >"The reality is Canada is deeply conservative." Agreed. Ontario is a few weeks away from voting in a conservative government with Doug Ford at the helm.
  - jgh 8y ago
    I think the conservativeness of Canada is a bit different from conservatives in the USA though. It's less focused on "morality" and religion and more an aversion to change. Which is why I think it's possible for the culture to be simultaneously conservative and OK with things like gay marriage and legal cannabis, neither of which would be conservative positions in the US.
    - digianarchist 8y ago
      We're insulated because provinces cannot pass laws on gay marriage or legal cannabis. Canadian federalism is incomplete in that regard. However Ford could pull a Mike Harris and start firing nurses. His economic plan promises a balanced budget with no job cuts and no tax rises. He claims there are efficiencies to be had whatever that means.
      - yarosv 8y ago
        Canada has gay marriages since 2005. Why would provinces need to pass more laws on that? As of legal cannabis, it is better when it is federal. In US you will go to jail in one state, and can be just fine in another.
        digianarchist 8y ago
        Passing laws on those issues isn’t even possible in Canadian provinces they don’t have the constitutional right.
    - TulliusCicero 8y ago
      Same thing in Germany. In the political sense, Germany is more liberal than the US (especially economically), but there's this sort personal conservatism that manifests in paranoia about data/privacy, aversion/skepticism around change and technology and risk, less acceptance of weirdness. German culture just feels...rigid. It's stable and very functional, but also inflexible.
neilk 8y ago
Canadian here who worked in the Valley for ~7 years, and currently works for a US-based startup remotely. You're absolutely right that the culture of respecting changemakers is not as present in Canada. But the SFBA is the world leader here. There probably isn't any place on earth that's more optimistic about innovators. I don't think this is a culture thing, exactly. It's just that everyone who became rich in the SFBA did so by exploiting trends or innovating – since like, the 1890s. And the USA plowed zillions of dollars into the tech ecosystem in the Bay Area since World War II. Once you have that tech investor class, culture bends a lot towards their way of thinking. Investors in Canada just don't have that kind of money to play with. Or, they made their money in an old-school industry, like resource extraction, and they flip out at the risk levels in tech startups. In terms of prevailing national norms, I'd say Canada is slightly more change-friendly than the USA. Think about all the ways that the USA tries to kill immigration, stifle innovation in favor of incumbents, and put regulatory barriers in the way for entrepreneurs. In contrast, Canada has lots of official policies to support tech entrepreneurship and skilled immigration. Plus, socialized medicine really does make it easier to be an entrepreneur. Politically and culturally, Canada isn't that into retro stuff, or trying to revive earlier, more conservative eras. People think their best days are ahead of them. It's true that the people in Canada are not super interested in overturning anyone's applecart, for its own sake or just to get rich. That's not as respected here. People are more likely to be interested in innovations that improve the general social welfare. But maybe that's not such a bad thing.
- jt2190 8y ago
  > Investors in Canada just don't have that kind of money to play with. The ecosystem [1] that provides dollars to high-risk investments (like tech startups) just doesn't exist on the same scale in Canada. The only players with that kind of money are the federal and provincial governments, which are by nature very conservative. [1] For example, one source of funding is large pensions and endowments, who take a tiny percentage of their overall portfolio and put it into "high-risk" investments. The funds are so large that the tiny percentage amounts to millions and millions of dollars.
  - Kelbit 8y ago
brandon272 8y ago
> Those that do are constantly questioned by everybody. My exposure is more western Canada than eastern Canada, but I find that your statements couldn't be further from the truth. People here are constantly trying new things and exploring and experimenting with new business ideas. I see great optimism and people who see potential. And in terms of being constantly questioned, I just don't see that where I am, but I also don't view being questioned as a bad thing. When it comes to launching any new idea, it seems that being questioned is the very least of the difficulty you need to put up with.
- rdlecler1 8y ago
  Originally from Calgary and I concur with the poster above. Canadians tend to think small. For venture the culture has been so burned by pump and dump penny stocks that there is no patient capital. Canada needs an enormous influx of venture capital. The problem is, is that the crown corporations who can make those bets are limited to investing in Canadian funds. If they could invest 10% into a US fund and the US fund agreed to invest 10% of the portfolio into Canada it could really open up the market.
  - brandon272 8y ago
    Are we talking about entrepreneurs or investors? I was talking about entrepreneurs, myself, and I think my point stands. I agree that the market for capital and venture investing is far different in Canada than in the US. But as far as that is concerned, couldn't it be argued that the market for venture capital and investing is far different in Silicon Valley than in most other places in the U.S., even?
    - rdlecler1 8y ago
      Both. If I am talented and I’m confident that money is available I’ll start a business. If money is scarce I’ll work at BigCo or move to SV and start a company. That leaves you with less than stellar talent. I’ve seen the same thing happen in the agrifood tech space. As more money has come into the sector we’ve seen more high quality entrepreneurs.
acchow 8y ago
Agree completely. Born and raised in Toronto. Canadians are nice and the diversity is great. But San Francisco was a breath of fresh air I didn't even know I needed until I came here. Toronto feels so rigid in comparison. I don't want to ever leave California.
- ironjunkie 8y ago
  stay there for long enough and you will start to see the cons also. There is a lot of pros for moving fast and getting things done, jobwise. Weather also is amazing. Now for personal life, the older you become, the more I realize that this place (the bay area) is really not the best quality of life you can get. People all think the same way, diversity is only visual, and there is not that much diversity of thought. Everything gravitates around work and tech. People are happy to work a crazy amount of hours and feel cool for doing so. I loved it for a couple years then started to become bored.
  - acchow 8y ago
    I'm not really in the tech bubble tho. I work in tech but it's just a job. Most of my friends are not in tech and most of them have never met anyone else working in tech other than myself. The tech industry only makes up a small percentage of the bay area population.
- selimthegrim 8y ago
  Is "Toronto the Good" still thrown about much?
jknoepfler 8y ago
I believe you are comparing your Canadian upbringing, which reflected an adolescent perspective on a broad spectrum of society, to your adult experiences in a tech bubble. This is a pretty obvious fallacy (the tech bubble is a highly self-selected population of intelligent, well-educated people who like to build things). I grew up in suburban Minnesota. It's not exactly ambition central, but it's miles ahead of small town America. You're talking about a country that elected Trump here. It's afraid of immigrants, "foreign" religions (as though American Christianity weren't a shambling syncretic nightmare), doesn't believe in evolution, and believes overwhelmingly in hell. We incarcerate more of our citizens per capita than any other developed country. We're not exactly free-wheeling dream seekers, at the median. We ridicule weird people, we spit on people who fail, and we hate anyone who is ugly, awkward, old, or otherwise socially disadvantaged. Getting ahead is seen as fine - be ambitious! - but only because we think our friends are "winners" and won't be hurt by the risks they take, which is nonsense. We also don't prize reflectiveness as a culture, so when people gain sufficient experience to learn that this perspective is idiotic, they don't internalize it. I'm not a giant fan of American culture, and I'm sad to see that anyone from Canada (I watch your Supreme Court proceedings for entertainment, full disclosure!) would idolize anything about they way Americans do things.
- sheepmullet 8y ago
  > You're talking about a country that elected Trump here. A move clearly demonstrating the willingness to take a risk. That kind of boldness is not a thing in Canada. > It's afraid of immigrants And is that unreasonable? Why? It's obvious immigration can do serious harm to the lower and middle classes. What's surprising is how open they are to immigration despite the risk. For example most of the western world enforces stricter skilled visa requirements. > "foreign" religions And again is that unreasonable? Why? Even so the US is incredibly accomodating - just look at the Amish for a good example of tolerance. > We incarcerate more of our citizens per capita than any other developed country. Because Americans are more willing to take risks. Good and bad. > and we hate anyone who is ugly, awkward, old, or otherwise socially disadvantaged. Who is we? I certainly don't think that's true. Maybe you could argue indifference? > I'm not a giant fan of American culture You seem to only see the negatives. Why is that?
ekovarski 8y ago
"""The idea of being an entrepreneur, in the GTA especially, is buying a second house in the suburbs and hoping the housing market continues rising.""" ... or a condo to put on Airbnb. You are definitely onto something when you say that there are some deep cultural issues within Canada; Look at RIM, the company believed that its central business customers cared more about security and efficient communication and that the iPhone presented no threat to them. The iPhone was just a crazy idea to them, who would want to use that clunker with a horrible battery life and browse the net on it? Canada has talent, without a doubt, but it also keeps people subdued as you stated because they are constantly questioned by everyone else. Canadians are a lot like accountants, they want to buy that fancy Harley and take it out on the road and live a little, but only on the weekends. :)

by _xzxj 8y ago

ajeet_dhaliwal 8y ago

The idea of being an entrepreneur, in the GTA especially, is buying a second house in the suburbs and hoping the housing market continues rising. That had me LOL because I think it’s so true. If you were to suggest perhaps to start a business that innovates you’d be considered crazy. Although of course the new tech out of the USA will be adopted by all immediately.

vkou 8y ago
You'd be considered crazy, because you can't throw a brick, and hit a VC that will give you money for a no team, no product, no idea startup. You'd also be considered crazy if you expressed those ideas in Chicago or San Diego, or Charleston, but that doesn't mean that we stereotypes about America not respecting 'changemakers' are accurate.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

ryanobjc 8y ago

The liberalness of Canada is overhyped. The reality is Canada is deeply conservative. It's possible to have universal health care and be conservative, that's only a oxymoron in the US. To quote this excellent article[1]: "the default setting of the Canadian male: a dull but stern dad, who, under a facade of apparent normalcy and common sense, conceals a reserve of barely contained hostility toward anyone who might rock the boat. To these types, those who make a fuss are bothersome and ignorant at best, and probably dangerous and destructive too." I was born in Canada. I went to school in Canada. Only once I moved to the US did I feel like I could express and be myself. That I am surrounded by people who think like I do and value the things I value. Dogmatic adherence to the way it's done, because change is dangerous is the default state of many Canadians. For those who it's not, well, you know them, they're already living in the US. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/06/opinion/jordan-peterson-canadian-deference.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/06/opinion/jordan-peterson-c...

digianarchist 8y ago
>"The reality is Canada is deeply conservative." Agreed. Ontario is a few weeks away from voting in a conservative government with Doug Ford at the helm.
- jgh 8y ago
  I think the conservativeness of Canada is a bit different from conservatives in the USA though. It's less focused on "morality" and religion and more an aversion to change. Which is why I think it's possible for the culture to be simultaneously conservative and OK with things like gay marriage and legal cannabis, neither of which would be conservative positions in the US.
  - digianarchist 8y ago
    We're insulated because provinces cannot pass laws on gay marriage or legal cannabis. Canadian federalism is incomplete in that regard. However Ford could pull a Mike Harris and start firing nurses. His economic plan promises a balanced budget with no job cuts and no tax rises. He claims there are efficiencies to be had whatever that means.
    - yarosv 8y ago
      Canada has gay marriages since 2005. Why would provinces need to pass more laws on that? As of legal cannabis, it is better when it is federal. In US you will go to jail in one state, and can be just fine in another.
      - digianarchist 8y ago
        Passing laws on those issues isn’t even possible in Canadian provinces they don’t have the constitutional right.
  - TulliusCicero 8y ago
    Same thing in Germany. In the political sense, Germany is more liberal than the US (especially economically), but there's this sort personal conservatism that manifests in paranoia about data/privacy, aversion/skepticism around change and technology and risk, less acceptance of weirdness. German culture just feels...rigid. It's stable and very functional, but also inflexible.

neilk 8y ago

Canadian here who worked in the Valley for ~7 years, and currently works for a US-based startup remotely. You're absolutely right that the culture of respecting changemakers is not as present in Canada. But the SFBA is the world leader here. There probably isn't any place on earth that's more optimistic about innovators. I don't think this is a culture thing, exactly. It's just that everyone who became rich in the SFBA did so by exploiting trends or innovating – since like, the 1890s. And the USA plowed zillions of dollars into the tech ecosystem in the Bay Area since World War II. Once you have that tech investor class, culture bends a lot towards their way of thinking. Investors in Canada just don't have that kind of money to play with. Or, they made their money in an old-school industry, like resource extraction, and they flip out at the risk levels in tech startups. In terms of prevailing national norms, I'd say Canada is slightly more change-friendly than the USA. Think about all the ways that the USA tries to kill immigration, stifle innovation in favor of incumbents, and put regulatory barriers in the way for entrepreneurs. In contrast, Canada has lots of official policies to support tech entrepreneurship and skilled immigration. Plus, socialized medicine really does make it easier to be an entrepreneur. Politically and culturally, Canada isn't that into retro stuff, or trying to revive earlier, more conservative eras. People think their best days are ahead of them. It's true that the people in Canada are not super interested in overturning anyone's applecart, for its own sake or just to get rich. That's not as respected here. People are more likely to be interested in innovations that improve the general social welfare. But maybe that's not such a bad thing.

jt2190 8y ago
> Investors in Canada just don't have that kind of money to play with. The ecosystem [1] that provides dollars to high-risk investments (like tech startups) just doesn't exist on the same scale in Canada. The only players with that kind of money are the federal and provincial governments, which are by nature very conservative. [1] For example, one source of funding is large pensions and endowments, who take a tiny percentage of their overall portfolio and put it into "high-risk" investments. The funds are so large that the tiny percentage amounts to millions and millions of dollars.
- Kelbit 8y ago

brandon272 8y ago

> Those that do are constantly questioned by everybody. My exposure is more western Canada than eastern Canada, but I find that your statements couldn't be further from the truth. People here are constantly trying new things and exploring and experimenting with new business ideas. I see great optimism and people who see potential. And in terms of being constantly questioned, I just don't see that where I am, but I also don't view being questioned as a bad thing. When it comes to launching any new idea, it seems that being questioned is the very least of the difficulty you need to put up with.

rdlecler1 8y ago
Originally from Calgary and I concur with the poster above. Canadians tend to think small. For venture the culture has been so burned by pump and dump penny stocks that there is no patient capital. Canada needs an enormous influx of venture capital. The problem is, is that the crown corporations who can make those bets are limited to investing in Canadian funds. If they could invest 10% into a US fund and the US fund agreed to invest 10% of the portfolio into Canada it could really open up the market.
- brandon272 8y ago
  Are we talking about entrepreneurs or investors? I was talking about entrepreneurs, myself, and I think my point stands. I agree that the market for capital and venture investing is far different in Canada than in the US. But as far as that is concerned, couldn't it be argued that the market for venture capital and investing is far different in Silicon Valley than in most other places in the U.S., even?
  - rdlecler1 8y ago
    Both. If I am talented and I’m confident that money is available I’ll start a business. If money is scarce I’ll work at BigCo or move to SV and start a company. That leaves you with less than stellar talent. I’ve seen the same thing happen in the agrifood tech space. As more money has come into the sector we’ve seen more high quality entrepreneurs.

acchow 8y ago

Agree completely. Born and raised in Toronto. Canadians are nice and the diversity is great. But San Francisco was a breath of fresh air I didn't even know I needed until I came here. Toronto feels so rigid in comparison. I don't want to ever leave California.

ironjunkie 8y ago
stay there for long enough and you will start to see the cons also. There is a lot of pros for moving fast and getting things done, jobwise. Weather also is amazing. Now for personal life, the older you become, the more I realize that this place (the bay area) is really not the best quality of life you can get. People all think the same way, diversity is only visual, and there is not that much diversity of thought. Everything gravitates around work and tech. People are happy to work a crazy amount of hours and feel cool for doing so. I loved it for a couple years then started to become bored.
- acchow 8y ago
  I'm not really in the tech bubble tho. I work in tech but it's just a job. Most of my friends are not in tech and most of them have never met anyone else working in tech other than myself. The tech industry only makes up a small percentage of the bay area population.
selimthegrim 8y ago
Is "Toronto the Good" still thrown about much?

jknoepfler 8y ago

I believe you are comparing your Canadian upbringing, which reflected an adolescent perspective on a broad spectrum of society, to your adult experiences in a tech bubble. This is a pretty obvious fallacy (the tech bubble is a highly self-selected population of intelligent, well-educated people who like to build things). I grew up in suburban Minnesota. It's not exactly ambition central, but it's miles ahead of small town America. You're talking about a country that elected Trump here. It's afraid of immigrants, "foreign" religions (as though American Christianity weren't a shambling syncretic nightmare), doesn't believe in evolution, and believes overwhelmingly in hell. We incarcerate more of our citizens per capita than any other developed country. We're not exactly free-wheeling dream seekers, at the median. We ridicule weird people, we spit on people who fail, and we hate anyone who is ugly, awkward, old, or otherwise socially disadvantaged. Getting ahead is seen as fine - be ambitious! - but only because we think our friends are "winners" and won't be hurt by the risks they take, which is nonsense. We also don't prize reflectiveness as a culture, so when people gain sufficient experience to learn that this perspective is idiotic, they don't internalize it. I'm not a giant fan of American culture, and I'm sad to see that anyone from Canada (I watch your Supreme Court proceedings for entertainment, full disclosure!) would idolize anything about they way Americans do things.

sheepmullet 8y ago
> You're talking about a country that elected Trump here. A move clearly demonstrating the willingness to take a risk. That kind of boldness is not a thing in Canada. > It's afraid of immigrants And is that unreasonable? Why? It's obvious immigration can do serious harm to the lower and middle classes. What's surprising is how open they are to immigration despite the risk. For example most of the western world enforces stricter skilled visa requirements. > "foreign" religions And again is that unreasonable? Why? Even so the US is incredibly accomodating - just look at the Amish for a good example of tolerance. > We incarcerate more of our citizens per capita than any other developed country. Because Americans are more willing to take risks. Good and bad. > and we hate anyone who is ugly, awkward, old, or otherwise socially disadvantaged. Who is we? I certainly don't think that's true. Maybe you could argue indifference? > I'm not a giant fan of American culture You seem to only see the negatives. Why is that?

ekovarski 8y ago

"""The idea of being an entrepreneur, in the GTA especially, is buying a second house in the suburbs and hoping the housing market continues rising.""" ... or a condo to put on Airbnb. You are definitely onto something when you say that there are some deep cultural issues within Canada; Look at RIM, the company believed that its central business customers cared more about security and efficient communication and that the iPhone presented no threat to them. The iPhone was just a crazy idea to them, who would want to use that clunker with a horrible battery life and browse the net on it? Canada has talent, without a doubt, but it also keeps people subdued as you stated because they are constantly questioned by everyone else. Canadians are a lot like accountants, they want to buy that fancy Harley and take it out on the road and live a little, but only on the weekends. :)