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Tesla Plunges After a Conference Call

286 points by sxcurry 8y ago

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natch 8y ago
Anyone know of a call-in number to hear a playback of the call? Or is it online anywhere?
- askl56 8y ago
  Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-dyiASgGkk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-dyiASgGkk
  - vkou 8y ago
    There's also a transcript on Yahoo Finance. [1] [1] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/edited-transcript-tsla-earnings-conference-095541387.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/edited-transcript-tsla-earnin...
    - reid 8y ago
      The link refers to the Q3 2017 conference call.
    - pdonis 8y ago
      This is of the November 2017 earnings call. That's not the one being discussed here.
mephitix 8y ago
I was on this call. It was extremely cringey/embarrassing to hear Elon dismiss valid questions. At the same time, it was fantastic to see a young, smart, retail investor (Gali from Hyperchange) get to ask so many questions directly to the leadership team. I thought before the call that Gali would get to ask only one question, like the other analysts. He was able to ask almost 10! It was surreal. I was left feeling that the team overall did a great thing by allowing Gali but wished that Elon didn’t insult the institutional investors by (at least so harshly) dismissing valid questions.
- danso 8y ago
  Letting one person ask 10 questions means less time for other investors to ask their own individual questions.
  - deleted 8y ago
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  - mephitix 8y ago
    This is true, but retail investors don’t typically interact at this level. At the beginning of the call Elon said that they would let the earnings call run until they were out of questions. That clearly didn’t happen...
  - gr3yh47 8y ago
    To be fair (edit: figuratively, to state a favorable viewpoint on Elon's decisiont to give more time to one person) he was asking excellent/interesting/challenging questions and it was really interesting to me to hear Elon's answers. I think Elon might have done well to be less brusque with the more run of the mill questions but I really enjoyed listing to the long exchange there
    - devmunchies 8y ago
      > To be fair he was asking excellent/interesting/challenging questions and it was really interesting to me to hear Elon's answers thats the opposite of being fair, but unfair is fine sometimes.
      - gr3yh47 8y ago
        >thats the opposite of being fair, but unfair is fine sometimes. fair point ;)
    - 8y ago
danso 8y ago
Is Musk still working long hours and sleeping at the car factory? Maybe he's a little under the effects of sleep deprivation.
- namlem 8y ago
  Or he's just in a manic episode of his BPD.
  - loceng 8y ago
    Did he post anywhere that he has officially been diagnosed with BPD? I believe he said he had "bipolar" on Twitter at one point, though I remembered it seeming like he was referencing a cycle like mental exhaustion from heavy mental activity times to slower, more depressed states.
  - Diederich 8y ago
    BPD is 'Borderline Personality Disorder', not 'BiPolar Disorder'. Very different things.
  - stordoff 8y ago
    Which sleep deprivation _may_ induce.
- txsh 8y ago
  I’m sure that’s what his press releases say.
ttul 8y ago
Tesla is clearly flying close to the sun, and Musk is not incorrect to suggest that investors who can't take that kind of risk should not be along for the ride; however, it probably would have been more prudent to hold back on that pronouncement, given that many investors seem to have taken the hint and exited the stock... Tesla is a giant confidence game - as are most high growth opportunities.
- deleted 8y ago
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- JumpCrisscross 8y ago
  > Musk is not incorrect to suggest that investors who can't take that kind of risk should not be along for the ride Risk is fine. Blind risk is not. Questions about cash position for a money-losing company with less cash on hand than it burned in the trailing 12 months are prudent.
  - pooya13 8y ago
    All the capex info was in their letter and they talked about it in the call as well. Why should all the investors have to listen to them repeat themselves? I for one appreciated that he skipped the question and did not waste my time. Also the reservation holder conversion rate is a highly strategic information and I don't think they should release that to the public. And to be honest it is irrelevant while they have such a giant backlog of orders. my guess is that the intent was to gather material for negative press. Let's not kid ourselves. Tesla has been the target of a massive propoganda/trolling campaign recently. (HN included)
    - shanghaiaway 8y ago
      Who do you imagine being behind your imagined propaganda campaign?
      - pooya13 8y ago
        Do I need to know who is behind it before I can tell that it is happening? When every negative event is blown out of proportions and the positive ones are not mentioned it appears that there is propaganda at work. But if I wanted to look I would start here: https://electrek.co/2016/11/22/elon-musk-right-wing-trump-propaganda-campaign-against-tesla-spacex/ https://electrek.co/2016/11/22/elon-musk-right-wing-trump-pr...
Clubber 8y ago
Perhaps a buying opportunity. Sounds like investors are being spiteful.
- vkou 8y ago
  Asking how he is going to reign in capital expenses, when their burn rate will drain them of cash in 8 months is not being spiteful. It's called being an investor. Refusing to answer that question, is either being spiteful, or disingenuous. It's a bit of a red flag.
  - derefr 8y ago
    That wasn’t the question he refused to answer; he refused to (I think in his opinion) sit there and do a bunch of simple—yet almost entirely spitballing—maths that any financial analyst could do, to tell them how much his proposed steps would save the company.
    - deleted 8y ago
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    - danso 8y ago
      "And so where specifically will you be in terms of capital requirements?" This is a question that can be answered by "any financial analyst"?
  - thrillgore 8y ago
    And refusing to answer is when I, as an investor, would begin looking at options available to me to change management.
    - Clubber 8y ago
      Just sell your shares big guy.
- txsh 8y ago
  As spiteful as Enron’s investors were.
jsw97 8y ago
This is apparently a common practice, although rarely this blatant. Paper: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2479542 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2479542 Paper finds that "firms that 'cast' their conference calls by disproportionately calling on bullish analysts tend to underperform in the future."
- uryga 8y ago
  Haven't read the paper, but isn't the causality the other way around? As in, troubled companies call on bullish analysts to try to keep up good appearances, but then underperform anyway because of their problems?
  - jsw97 8y ago
    Yes, that's actually the causality they suggest in the paper.
    - uryga 8y ago
      Ah, thanks for the clarification!
  - deleted 8y ago
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bjl 8y ago
Felt very reminiscent to Skilling's infamous earnings call. I'd have to imagine any TSLA investors are very concerned after that performance.
- mephitix 8y ago
  I’m not too worried. The earnings themselves were better than expected. Elon said this in a tweet but its reiterated in the earnings - projecting positive cash flow in Q3 and Q4. And such dismissive behavior (as much as I am not a fan of it) is not uncommon among stressed-out CEOs - Jobs, Gates..
  - karpodiem 8y ago
    Sorry, he's a day late a few billion dollars short for being lent trust on actually being cash flow positive in Q3. Musk's history of lies - https://twitter.com/wolfejosh/status/989258303640408071 https://twitter.com/wolfejosh/status/989258303640408071 It's far more likely that the stock continues to deteriorate, and that there's a margin call at the $230 level (https://seekingalpha.com/article/4168224-musks-personal-finances-threaten-teslas-stock-price https://seekingalpha.com/article/4168224-musks-personal-fina...) and that Tesla is liquidated by the end of the year.
  - danso 8y ago
    It seems to be a glass half-full/half-empty debate. Yes, earnings were better than expected. But losses were also at a record high, which is not nothing, given Tesla has had only 2 or 3 profitable quarters since 2009. That Tesla's stock and business isn't cratering is a testament to the optimism people have about what Elon Musk has built and dreamed. I was just wondering if Jobs had ever had an episode like this during a quarterly call. I mean, he was obviously known to be abrasive on other occasions. But in his final decade, Apple's business was in a much more solid position than where Tesla is at now.
  - xkjkls 8y ago
    Why does Elon Musk have any credibility regarding the cash position of his company? He's repeatedly made similar statements that didn't turn true too.
olivermarks 8y ago
Musk sounded exhausted. If Smith & Wesson launched a consumer flamethrower there would be outrage...Musk has been able to distract with lots of shiny objects but the clock is ticking, even amongst his niche fan base...I hope all the people who are working so hard in Musk's various companies come out of this ok...
- tensor 8y ago
  For the sake of society, I hope Musk succeeds. We've spent too much time as a culture celebrating fairly useless achievements and being unwilling to dare to do the things that will truly take us forward.
  - maxsilver 8y ago
    The important part of Musk's plan has already succeeded. He made electric cars cool and competitive. If Tesla folds tomorrow, there will still be a large market for electric cars, and multiple other companies serving that. Depending on your needs, that has arguably already happened. While Tesla is still the "coolest" brand of car, there are better/cheaper electric cars from many non-Tesla companies already widely available today. That will not go away, even if Tesla implodes.
    - agumonkey 8y ago
      If Tesla folds, how much will they be able to refund to customers ? I guess it's probably written on the deposit contract. Also, I wonder how many would go buy a competitor EV vehicle if their Model 3 doesn't happen. Or will they go ICE ?
      - dragonwriter 8y ago
        > If Tesla folds, how much will they be able to refund to customers ? I guess it's probably written on the deposit contract. If it's a bankruptcy (and why would they told before that point?), whatever he deposit contract or general principles of law suggest for a going concern would be the upper limit of refunds, but the actual value would be dependent on what assets were left and what other claims were competing.
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mmsimanga 8y ago
Having watched clip in the article and given I don't have any Tesla stock. Additionally having been an operations manager I have some sympathy for Musk. Every Tom, Dick, and Sally has an opinion but very few have the know-how to help. But in today's world who needs to be an expert to comment or pass judgment. On the one hand we have CEOs who chase the quarterly earnings at the cost of long-term sustainability. Musk says he isn't interested in short-term (in not so many words). Either way, you going to piss someone off. Like I said I don't have stock in the game.
- Nokinside 8y ago
  Firstly, this was not some PR event. Musk had large number of people knew what they were talking about wanting to ask tough questions. What Musk is interested in is not relevant. Secondly, Musk can't avoid short term investor questions because unless he answers them, there may be no longer term. This kind of clear avoidance of difficult questions can easily add one percentage point to Tesla's future loans and reduce the amount he can collect. Tesla is down almost 12% from the beginning of the year.
  - supernovae 8y ago
    Investing is what we make of it. The reality is for everyone but the top 1%, investing is long term. It's tied into 401ks, it tied into RSU, its tied into Options unless you're the top 1% in which case the only benefit of short-term markets is the ability to manipulate them for your own benefit. Many CEO's know this and Tesla isn't the only company that faces this problem. Amazon has to think long-term, many tech companies have to think long term. Trying to get an entire industry/society to move forward or make systematic changes is a LONG TERM proposition. sure, we can day trade or buy stocks and sell whenever we want, but we're not the ones causing market swings, we're positions in computational modeling where the market makers aren't even offering our positions to the market but using your sell to do another buy and make money off us reacting/acting on the market. The end result is still that Tesla seeks a profit - but its business goal is to change the market. If you don't like that, don't buy the stock.
    - 8y ago
rawrmaan 8y ago
Elon has always seemed to have the attitude of "not everyone should invest in this stock". I find this refreshing. God forbid a CEO do anything except try to drive the share price as high as humanly possible. I don't know if this carries the same weight in a public company, but setting expectations with investors is super important in a startup and prevents a ton of wasted time wrangling investors who don't get the true cost/benefit ratio of what you're doing.
- paulcole 8y ago
  > Elon has always seemed to have the attitude of "not everyone should invest in this stock". Sounds like the CEO equivalent of a movie director saying "I didn't make this one for the critics." Translation, "I know there are problems but I'd rather have my ego stroked by fans than face real criticism."
  - moate 8y ago
    "I didn't make this one for the critics" frequently means "I made the movie I wanted" or "I made the movie the studio wanted". That statement could boil down to "I'm not concerned about money, I'm making a movie I wanted to make in service of the fans" or "I made a movie that I knew would make a ton of money, because people go to see this junk even if critics don't like it". CEO's don't have critics in the same sense that movies/art does. The financial/business sector work on completely different axes to judge performance. Elon seems to be more focused on his vision of the Big Picture (solving transportation problems, moving to new planets, fixing the energy crisis, etc) than making money in the short term (which might be over the next 10 years). He appears to be a man convinced he knows how to help fix global problems, and believes in his mission more than making money. You still need money to change the world, so he's also tried to do very well at the business side of it. I'm not convinced Musk will fix humanity. I'm also not convinced he won't. I just feel that this specific statement, that Tesla isn't a business everyone should be involved in, feels like a "we're mission driven, not money driven" proclamation to me.
    - paulcole 8y ago
bartozone 8y ago
Elon did come across very Trumpian on the call, which, in the longer term may serve his interests well. He's pretty upfront about not caring about what the public markets think of him (or Tesla), and acts accordingly. Maybe if he can devalue analysts, and their questions, in the long run these calls will have less impact on value of the company. I mean ... if I were an institutional investor in Tesla, I'd really wish he would have answered those questions. He must have known what the outcome would be.
staunch 8y ago
Wall Street and their car industry friends want to kill Tesla. They use every opportunity. They probably pay "PR" firms to do anti-Tesla propaganda, judging from the shill YouTube comments I've seen. None of it matters if Tesla produces products that people love. So far they're doing a great job of that. If they keep up the "pace of innovation" they will succeed, and if they don't, they will fail. None of this drama will matter in the end. As a Musk fan since before he was cool, this just makes me like him that much more.
- bllguo 8y ago
  You've clearly wrapped up way too much of your identity in Musk. If you actually care about his enterprises you should care about their financial sustainability. Want to kill Tesla? Do you understand who he was talking to? These people are Tesla investors. Well, maybe that should be "were" now.
  - staunch 8y ago
    Your ad hominem attack is against the guidelines of Hacker News. I simply believe that founders, products, and teams determine success and that investor happiness is a lagging indicator. This is clearly what Elon Musk believes too. Wall Street investors are like sheep. You can curse at them all you want. They can bleat all they want. They'll still come running when the food is ready. Believing investors could be loyal to Elon Musk based on his personal behavior is a good way to kill Tesla. They only value the profits that he can generate for them, and he knows it.
howaboutnmc 8y ago
Musk literally said to an investor "Please sell our stock and don't buy it.". Transcript : https://seekingalpha.com/article/4169027-tesla-tsla-q1-2018-results-earnings-call-transcript?page=15 https://seekingalpha.com/article/4169027-tesla-tsla-q1-2018-...
- mephitix 8y ago
  Context is important :) He was talking specifically to and about day-traders: "We have no interest in satisfying the desires of day traders. I couldn't care less. Please sell our stock and don't buy it."
- deleted 8y ago
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- microtherion 8y ago
  Not that I'm a big fan of Musk, but even somebody as mild mannered as Tim Cook has said things like this in the past: "If you want me to do things only for ROI reasons, you should get out of this stock." https://www.cultofmac.com/268413/tim-cook-tells-profit-obsessed-investors-sell-stock/ https://www.cultofmac.com/268413/tim-cook-tells-profit-obses...
chaostheory 8y ago
It may be a strange call but it's not the first. Overstock's former CEO, Patrick Byrne, had worse calls where he discussed his personal issues.
avoutthere 8y ago
It sounds to me like Musk has a card up his sleeve. If he were truly in fear for the continued existence of Tesla, he would have been very patient and accommodating toward those whom he might need to approach later for more capital. I suspect that he has already secured the capital (or assurances that he will).
- ww520 8y ago
  No doubt he can raise the needed capital this year, but at what terms and at what dilution. The stock price probably reflects the expected dilution coming up.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > It sounds to me like Musk has a card up his sleeve. It sounds to me like Musk has been projecting near term (<1 year, sometimes even “next quarter”) transition to being cash flow positive and not needing new capital regularly for six years now and is used to just getting away with it even though it's been wrong every time.
bitwize 8y ago
I get the feeling Elon thinks of Tesla as an OLPC for EVs: he doesn't care if the business fails so much as it gets the concept of consumer EVs out there and in people's minds. Which probably doesn't make investors happy and understandably so, but the Musk moves in mysterious ways.
agumonkey 8y ago
I always have an issue about the statistical viewpoint about safety. Musk finds it outrageous that AP like products are nailed by the press but I find it quite normal. It's a new thing, and it's related to injury, it will be pinned. I wouldn't expect any otherwise. Musk should just swallow the pill and just work around that. Press won't write about your car that doesn't kill people. That's absurd.
- karthikb 8y ago
  Unless that’s your brand - see Volvo.
21 8y ago
Tesla earnings call was the best I've heard in a long time, says Jim Cramer (a CNBC popular analyst): https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/05/03/tesla-earnings-call-was-the-best-ive-heard-in-a-long-time-says-jim-cramer.html https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/05/03/tesla-earnings-call-wa...
- xkjkls 8y ago
  In the entertainment sense, sure. But Musk is running a $50 billion company, not performing stand up.
  - mcguire 8y ago
    Jim Cramer, though, is.
    - xkjkls 8y ago
      presses button to make recorded bull sound
nonbel 8y ago
>'the CEO said an analyst was asking “boring bonehead questions” that were “not cool.”' The thing is that he isn't wrong. I listened to one of these earnings calls the other day and literally fell asleep.
- bllguo 8y ago
  It's literally his job to talk to investors. He explicitly invited those questions, too. Obviously it would be boring to you as a layman with no money on the line. I'm sure I'd be bored too. That's not relevant though.
  - nonbel 8y ago
    >"It's literally his job to talk to investors. He explicitly invited those questions, too." I totally agree, still in my experience they are quite boring. I'm not even advocating for any kind of change or anything, they are probably supposed to be boring. >"Obviously it would be boring to you as a layman with no money on the line." Why would you I assume I was listening to an earnings call without money on the line? But actually, now that you mention it, recordings of those calls could be a good insomnia cure.
    - danso 8y ago
      Why do you have an expectation that a Q&A about financials should be emotionally exciting?
      - nonbel 8y ago
        I don't. I even say this in the post you are replying to.
        danso 8y ago
        My comment is directed more toward your opening rationalization: "The thing is that he isn't wrong." I don't believe Musk's critics are specifically disagreeing with how boring earnings calls may or may not be. I guess if I expected these calls to be not boring, I would think Musk had made an interesting observation.
ihsw2 8y ago
Oh good, TSLA is on sale at 10% off. Setting aside the abject glibness of this comment, the likelihood of it recovering at this time tomorrow is pretty much guaranteed, and by his logic (not everyone should own this stock) it will be owned by the right people (those that believe in Tesla's ability to deliver a compelling product rather than healthy stock returns).
kc10 8y ago
I have been investing a portion of my paycheck every month for the last three years and never sold TSLA. It's bothering me to see so many high profile departures particularly in finance/accounting groups. And yesterday's conference call was a disaster, I see it as dodging valid questions related to current state of the company and answering open ended interesting questions like "When will Tesla launch its own network of driverless cars?". I just dumped all the $TSLA stock I have bought for the last few years.
- garmaine 8y ago
  Serious question: why do you pick stocks?
  - kc10 8y ago
    For fun and I don't mind losing a portion of my investments on these bets I believe in.
- komali2 8y ago
  Nice, helping make it cheaper for us :) I for one have been loving the dump, makes it real easy to buy.
  - refurb 8y ago
    I have a feeling that posts like this are going to be very entertaining to read in a year or so. Just like the "Dropbox is a stupid idea because..." everyone loves to quote.
    - komali2 8y ago
      Given how much content people post, we can just wait for any company to fail, then google their ticker on sites with comments, find some "idiots" talking about buying their stocks, and laugh at them.
      - refurb 8y ago
holografix 8y ago
I for one completely defend him. It must be excruciating getting the self serving type of questions that all boil down to: “how well can I infer you’re doing so I make sure I make more money or lose less money in the next 6 months?” Over and over and over...
- xkjkls 8y ago
  If he actually answered it with any new information or to any real degree of satisfaction it wouldn't have been asked so often.
  - akmiller 8y ago
    Didn't he provide all of the actual numbers? What else is he supposed to provide?
- jcfrei 8y ago
  If you don't like it then don't run a public company.
IkmoIkmo 8y ago
Any place to get the audio, given the entire transcript is available?
samstave 8y ago
One of the things I was really was going to happen with Tesla would have been a revival of the boutique auto industry - whereby, one could buy all the subcomponents of the Tesla - a full drive-train-chassis setup with all controls and then build custom bodies on top of them Like trucks and vans etc. Pipe-dream sure, but I was really hoping that this would happen. How hard would it be to extend the length of the chassis only to allow for a long van/bus/truck be built on top of it (and by how hard, I mean "how hard" - not "it couldn't be that hard, could it" type of question)
- stale2002 8y ago
  Tesla is literally the opposite of that dream. Tesla is effectively the Apple of the car world. The whole thing is locked down, and if you make modifications to the car, they will brick it with software. You don't really "own" that Tesla.
  - samstave 8y ago
    Sadly, I know - thats why I said it was a pipe dream.
aresant 8y ago
Not that it's going to happen. But Apple is sitting on ~$270b of cash (1). And is run by a guy in Tim Cook that is a world class operator and fulfillment guy. And who has been criticized for lacking vision :) We can dream right? (1) https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/01/apple-q2-2018-earnings-heres-how-much-money-apple-has.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/01/apple-q2-2018-earnings-heres...
- Analemma_ 8y ago
  Apple buying Tesla would be a gigantic waste of money. Ben Thompson has explained why in a couple good Stratechery posts, but the tl;dr is, a large percentage of Tesla's valuation is goodwill (its reputation and "coolness factor"), and Apple already has plenty of that, so all the money Apple spent for that piece of Tesla's value would be pure waste. And that's before you get into the fact that huge acquisitions, where the acquired company is in a totally different sector than the buyer, almost never work.
  - fooker 8y ago
    Both Apple and Tesla sell luxury electronics. The difference is in just in the size and the number of moving parts.
    - Analemma_ 8y ago
      That's like saying that both Ford and SpaceX sell freight vehicles.
      - fooker 8y ago
        Apple and Tesla both sell to consumers of a rather similar demographic. You can not say the same for Ford and Spacex.
- whoisjuan 8y ago
  At a market cap of 50bn, assuming they would pay a premium price of let's say 70bn, it's a completely pointless transaction. It's too much money that they could deploy more strategically into other verticals with less risk.
throwaway84742 8y ago
Meh. I say, fuck the “analysts”. The dude is on fire. He can afford it. This is as close to the second coming of Steve Jobs as we’re going to get for quite some time. This is rock n roll. I’m just enjoying the show over here: my TSLA position is relatively small.
- xkjkls 8y ago
  Afford what exactly? To run a cash flow negative company for quarters on end?
  - throwaway84742 8y ago
    Yes.
    - xkjkls 8y ago
      How exactly?
      - throwaway84742 8y ago
        Through the sheer motive force of his gigantic balls.
        xkjkls 8y ago
        How old are you?
Animats 8y ago
The strange thing is, Tesla finally seems to be getting decent production rates on their Model 3 line.[1] They got 2500 cars out the door in a week at peak, which is respectable. Until recently, output was so low that it was clear the line wasn't working right. They then shut down to retune their production line, which makes sense. They should soon be cranking about 2500-3000 cars a week without much fuss. Once first shift is running smoothly, they can add a second shift. Tesla may be over the hump on getting the business working. But profitability is still a ways off. Tesla may need more capital to get there. What Tesla doesn't need now are distractions. The truck, the new roadster, the next model, self-driving. They need to focus on shipping product before the money runs out. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-tesla-tracker/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-tesla-tracker/
unclebucknasty 8y ago
I was reading all of the thoughtful critiques of Elon's behavior when something occurred to me: there is an awful lot of brain power here that is spending an awful lot of time analyzing the decisions and words of one man. It's actually odd when you think about it: we do a lot of observing and commenting these days (myself included) and I wonder how much more productive we would be individually and as a society if more of our energy was invested in creation and building.
- mathinpens 8y ago
  I was reading a fun essay by Thoreau about this the other day. I tend to agree that a lot of people pay too much attention to ephemera with minimal value. http://xroads.virginia.edu/~hyper/walden/essays/life.html http://xroads.virginia.edu/~hyper/walden/essays/life.html
Zhenya 8y ago
What a weird call. Especially the callout of the diamler CEO. Elon says that the diamler CEO does not understand physics "He doesn't know much about physics. I know him. I'd be happy to engage in a physics discussion with him. I actually studied physics in college." Wiki says otherwise: "... studied electrical engineering from 1971 to 1976 at the University of Karlsruhe; he graduated as an engineer. He completed his doctorate in engineering in 1982 at the University of Paderborn." -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieter_Zetsche https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieter_Zetsche
- nick_urban 8y ago
  Engineering students are usually required to study physics.
  - mi100hael 8y ago
    Nahhh, I can't imagine physics matters much in engineering /s
  - justwalt 8y ago
    I think he’s talking about the other CEO. Musk is 46, meaning he couldn’t have graduated in 76.
- douglaswlance 8y ago
  You don't have to get a degree to study something.
  - scruple 8y ago
    My thoughts exactly. Reading that exchange had me thinking of John Carmack.
- justin66 8y ago
  Unless he was confused (quite possible) Musk would have been referring to the CEO of Daimler Trucks North America, Martin Daum. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-21/daimler-throws-shade-at-tesla-e-trucks-plan-as-rivalry-heats-up https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-21/daimler-t...
_bxg1 8y ago
It's so hard to see them starting to falter. They were on the cusp of mainstream success.
- mikeash 8y ago
  They don’t seem to be faltering to me. They’re doing better than they ever have been. They sold almost as many cars last quarter as they did in all of 2014 (which happens to be when I ordered mine). Model 3 production is ramping up much faster than Model S or X production did, and is only a few months behind Elon’s notoriously optimistic predictions.
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mathinpens 8y ago
I don't know all that much about finance but I do know when someone is dodging challenging questions because they don't have good answers...
kgwgk 8y ago
I’m curious: was the word “bizarre” always missing in the title or has it been dropped later?
- K2L8M11N2 8y ago
  It was dropped.
mwfunk 8y ago
It’s alarming to see the volume of kneejerk defensiveness here. You can idolize Elon Musk but still have a fact-based, rational perspective. You can be rooting for Tesla in the most tribal and idealistic way imaginable and still see their financial challenges clearly and analytically.
singularity2001 8y ago
Please un-editorialize title.
boznz 8y ago
Musk is Willy Wonka for the 21st century, for all his flaws you still gotta love him and lets face it Wonka Chocolates just wouldn't be the same without him.
Giorgi 8y ago
Good. Dumbass "Analysts" can go eat you know what. Tesla is not there to earn some granny their pension, it's there to be life changing company
sidcool 8y ago
The news I dread to hear: "Tesla files for chapter 11".... It almost makes wail. I wish I had enough money to give Tesla a runway, free of Wall Street scrutiny for a year. But that's not in the spirit of capitalism I guess.

286 points by sxcurry 8y ago

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natch 8y ago

Anyone know of a call-in number to hear a playback of the call? Or is it online anywhere?

askl56 8y ago
Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-dyiASgGkk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-dyiASgGkk
- vkou 8y ago
  There's also a transcript on Yahoo Finance. [1] [1] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/edited-transcript-tsla-earnings-conference-095541387.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/edited-transcript-tsla-earnin...
  - reid 8y ago
    The link refers to the Q3 2017 conference call.
  - pdonis 8y ago
    This is of the November 2017 earnings call. That's not the one being discussed here.

mephitix 8y ago

I was on this call. It was extremely cringey/embarrassing to hear Elon dismiss valid questions. At the same time, it was fantastic to see a young, smart, retail investor (Gali from Hyperchange) get to ask so many questions directly to the leadership team. I thought before the call that Gali would get to ask only one question, like the other analysts. He was able to ask almost 10! It was surreal. I was left feeling that the team overall did a great thing by allowing Gali but wished that Elon didn’t insult the institutional investors by (at least so harshly) dismissing valid questions.

danso 8y ago
Letting one person ask 10 questions means less time for other investors to ask their own individual questions.
- deleted 8y ago
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- mephitix 8y ago
  This is true, but retail investors don’t typically interact at this level. At the beginning of the call Elon said that they would let the earnings call run until they were out of questions. That clearly didn’t happen...
- gr3yh47 8y ago
  To be fair (edit: figuratively, to state a favorable viewpoint on Elon's decisiont to give more time to one person) he was asking excellent/interesting/challenging questions and it was really interesting to me to hear Elon's answers. I think Elon might have done well to be less brusque with the more run of the mill questions but I really enjoyed listing to the long exchange there
  - devmunchies 8y ago
    > To be fair he was asking excellent/interesting/challenging questions and it was really interesting to me to hear Elon's answers thats the opposite of being fair, but unfair is fine sometimes.
    - gr3yh47 8y ago
      >thats the opposite of being fair, but unfair is fine sometimes. fair point ;)
  - 8y ago

danso 8y ago

Is Musk still working long hours and sleeping at the car factory? Maybe he's a little under the effects of sleep deprivation.

namlem 8y ago
Or he's just in a manic episode of his BPD.
- loceng 8y ago
  Did he post anywhere that he has officially been diagnosed with BPD? I believe he said he had "bipolar" on Twitter at one point, though I remembered it seeming like he was referencing a cycle like mental exhaustion from heavy mental activity times to slower, more depressed states.
- Diederich 8y ago
  BPD is 'Borderline Personality Disorder', not 'BiPolar Disorder'. Very different things.
- stordoff 8y ago
  Which sleep deprivation _may_ induce.
txsh 8y ago
I’m sure that’s what his press releases say.

ttul 8y ago

Tesla is clearly flying close to the sun, and Musk is not incorrect to suggest that investors who can't take that kind of risk should not be along for the ride; however, it probably would have been more prudent to hold back on that pronouncement, given that many investors seem to have taken the hint and exited the stock... Tesla is a giant confidence game - as are most high growth opportunities.

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JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> Musk is not incorrect to suggest that investors who can't take that kind of risk should not be along for the ride Risk is fine. Blind risk is not. Questions about cash position for a money-losing company with less cash on hand than it burned in the trailing 12 months are prudent.
- pooya13 8y ago
  All the capex info was in their letter and they talked about it in the call as well. Why should all the investors have to listen to them repeat themselves? I for one appreciated that he skipped the question and did not waste my time. Also the reservation holder conversion rate is a highly strategic information and I don't think they should release that to the public. And to be honest it is irrelevant while they have such a giant backlog of orders. my guess is that the intent was to gather material for negative press. Let's not kid ourselves. Tesla has been the target of a massive propoganda/trolling campaign recently. (HN included)
  - shanghaiaway 8y ago
    Who do you imagine being behind your imagined propaganda campaign?
    - pooya13 8y ago
      Do I need to know who is behind it before I can tell that it is happening? When every negative event is blown out of proportions and the positive ones are not mentioned it appears that there is propaganda at work. But if I wanted to look I would start here: https://electrek.co/2016/11/22/elon-musk-right-wing-trump-propaganda-campaign-against-tesla-spacex/ https://electrek.co/2016/11/22/elon-musk-right-wing-trump-pr...

Clubber 8y ago

Perhaps a buying opportunity. Sounds like investors are being spiteful.

vkou 8y ago
Asking how he is going to reign in capital expenses, when their burn rate will drain them of cash in 8 months is not being spiteful. It's called being an investor. Refusing to answer that question, is either being spiteful, or disingenuous. It's a bit of a red flag.
- derefr 8y ago
  That wasn’t the question he refused to answer; he refused to (I think in his opinion) sit there and do a bunch of simple—yet almost entirely spitballing—maths that any financial analyst could do, to tell them how much his proposed steps would save the company.
  - deleted 8y ago
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  - danso 8y ago
    "And so where specifically will you be in terms of capital requirements?" This is a question that can be answered by "any financial analyst"?
- thrillgore 8y ago
  And refusing to answer is when I, as an investor, would begin looking at options available to me to change management.
  - Clubber 8y ago
    Just sell your shares big guy.
txsh 8y ago
As spiteful as Enron’s investors were.

jsw97 8y ago

This is apparently a common practice, although rarely this blatant. Paper: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2479542 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2479542 Paper finds that "firms that 'cast' their conference calls by disproportionately calling on bullish analysts tend to underperform in the future."

uryga 8y ago
Haven't read the paper, but isn't the causality the other way around? As in, troubled companies call on bullish analysts to try to keep up good appearances, but then underperform anyway because of their problems?
- jsw97 8y ago
  Yes, that's actually the causality they suggest in the paper.
  - uryga 8y ago
    Ah, thanks for the clarification!
- deleted 8y ago
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bjl 8y ago

Felt very reminiscent to Skilling's infamous earnings call. I'd have to imagine any TSLA investors are very concerned after that performance.

mephitix 8y ago
I’m not too worried. The earnings themselves were better than expected. Elon said this in a tweet but its reiterated in the earnings - projecting positive cash flow in Q3 and Q4. And such dismissive behavior (as much as I am not a fan of it) is not uncommon among stressed-out CEOs - Jobs, Gates..
- karpodiem 8y ago
  Sorry, he's a day late a few billion dollars short for being lent trust on actually being cash flow positive in Q3. Musk's history of lies - https://twitter.com/wolfejosh/status/989258303640408071 https://twitter.com/wolfejosh/status/989258303640408071 It's far more likely that the stock continues to deteriorate, and that there's a margin call at the $230 level (https://seekingalpha.com/article/4168224-musks-personal-finances-threaten-teslas-stock-price https://seekingalpha.com/article/4168224-musks-personal-fina...) and that Tesla is liquidated by the end of the year.
- danso 8y ago
  It seems to be a glass half-full/half-empty debate. Yes, earnings were better than expected. But losses were also at a record high, which is not nothing, given Tesla has had only 2 or 3 profitable quarters since 2009. That Tesla's stock and business isn't cratering is a testament to the optimism people have about what Elon Musk has built and dreamed. I was just wondering if Jobs had ever had an episode like this during a quarterly call. I mean, he was obviously known to be abrasive on other occasions. But in his final decade, Apple's business was in a much more solid position than where Tesla is at now.
- xkjkls 8y ago
  Why does Elon Musk have any credibility regarding the cash position of his company? He's repeatedly made similar statements that didn't turn true too.

olivermarks 8y ago

Musk sounded exhausted. If Smith & Wesson launched a consumer flamethrower there would be outrage...Musk has been able to distract with lots of shiny objects but the clock is ticking, even amongst his niche fan base...I hope all the people who are working so hard in Musk's various companies come out of this ok...

tensor 8y ago
For the sake of society, I hope Musk succeeds. We've spent too much time as a culture celebrating fairly useless achievements and being unwilling to dare to do the things that will truly take us forward.
- maxsilver 8y ago
  The important part of Musk's plan has already succeeded. He made electric cars cool and competitive. If Tesla folds tomorrow, there will still be a large market for electric cars, and multiple other companies serving that. Depending on your needs, that has arguably already happened. While Tesla is still the "coolest" brand of car, there are better/cheaper electric cars from many non-Tesla companies already widely available today. That will not go away, even if Tesla implodes.
  - agumonkey 8y ago
    If Tesla folds, how much will they be able to refund to customers ? I guess it's probably written on the deposit contract. Also, I wonder how many would go buy a competitor EV vehicle if their Model 3 doesn't happen. Or will they go ICE ?
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      > If Tesla folds, how much will they be able to refund to customers ? I guess it's probably written on the deposit contract. If it's a bankruptcy (and why would they told before that point?), whatever he deposit contract or general principles of law suggest for a going concern would be the upper limit of refunds, but the actual value would be dependent on what assets were left and what other claims were competing.

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mmsimanga 8y ago

Having watched clip in the article and given I don't have any Tesla stock. Additionally having been an operations manager I have some sympathy for Musk. Every Tom, Dick, and Sally has an opinion but very few have the know-how to help. But in today's world who needs to be an expert to comment or pass judgment. On the one hand we have CEOs who chase the quarterly earnings at the cost of long-term sustainability. Musk says he isn't interested in short-term (in not so many words). Either way, you going to piss someone off. Like I said I don't have stock in the game.

Nokinside 8y ago
Firstly, this was not some PR event. Musk had large number of people knew what they were talking about wanting to ask tough questions. What Musk is interested in is not relevant. Secondly, Musk can't avoid short term investor questions because unless he answers them, there may be no longer term. This kind of clear avoidance of difficult questions can easily add one percentage point to Tesla's future loans and reduce the amount he can collect. Tesla is down almost 12% from the beginning of the year.
- supernovae 8y ago
  Investing is what we make of it. The reality is for everyone but the top 1%, investing is long term. It's tied into 401ks, it tied into RSU, its tied into Options unless you're the top 1% in which case the only benefit of short-term markets is the ability to manipulate them for your own benefit. Many CEO's know this and Tesla isn't the only company that faces this problem. Amazon has to think long-term, many tech companies have to think long term. Trying to get an entire industry/society to move forward or make systematic changes is a LONG TERM proposition. sure, we can day trade or buy stocks and sell whenever we want, but we're not the ones causing market swings, we're positions in computational modeling where the market makers aren't even offering our positions to the market but using your sell to do another buy and make money off us reacting/acting on the market. The end result is still that Tesla seeks a profit - but its business goal is to change the market. If you don't like that, don't buy the stock.
  - 8y ago

rawrmaan 8y ago

Elon has always seemed to have the attitude of "not everyone should invest in this stock". I find this refreshing. God forbid a CEO do anything except try to drive the share price as high as humanly possible. I don't know if this carries the same weight in a public company, but setting expectations with investors is super important in a startup and prevents a ton of wasted time wrangling investors who don't get the true cost/benefit ratio of what you're doing.

paulcole 8y ago
> Elon has always seemed to have the attitude of "not everyone should invest in this stock". Sounds like the CEO equivalent of a movie director saying "I didn't make this one for the critics." Translation, "I know there are problems but I'd rather have my ego stroked by fans than face real criticism."
- moate 8y ago
  "I didn't make this one for the critics" frequently means "I made the movie I wanted" or "I made the movie the studio wanted". That statement could boil down to "I'm not concerned about money, I'm making a movie I wanted to make in service of the fans" or "I made a movie that I knew would make a ton of money, because people go to see this junk even if critics don't like it". CEO's don't have critics in the same sense that movies/art does. The financial/business sector work on completely different axes to judge performance. Elon seems to be more focused on his vision of the Big Picture (solving transportation problems, moving to new planets, fixing the energy crisis, etc) than making money in the short term (which might be over the next 10 years). He appears to be a man convinced he knows how to help fix global problems, and believes in his mission more than making money. You still need money to change the world, so he's also tried to do very well at the business side of it. I'm not convinced Musk will fix humanity. I'm also not convinced he won't. I just feel that this specific statement, that Tesla isn't a business everyone should be involved in, feels like a "we're mission driven, not money driven" proclamation to me.
  - paulcole 8y ago

bartozone 8y ago

Elon did come across very Trumpian on the call, which, in the longer term may serve his interests well. He's pretty upfront about not caring about what the public markets think of him (or Tesla), and acts accordingly. Maybe if he can devalue analysts, and their questions, in the long run these calls will have less impact on value of the company. I mean ... if I were an institutional investor in Tesla, I'd really wish he would have answered those questions. He must have known what the outcome would be.

staunch 8y ago

Wall Street and their car industry friends want to kill Tesla. They use every opportunity. They probably pay "PR" firms to do anti-Tesla propaganda, judging from the shill YouTube comments I've seen. None of it matters if Tesla produces products that people love. So far they're doing a great job of that. If they keep up the "pace of innovation" they will succeed, and if they don't, they will fail. None of this drama will matter in the end. As a Musk fan since before he was cool, this just makes me like him that much more.

bllguo 8y ago
You've clearly wrapped up way too much of your identity in Musk. If you actually care about his enterprises you should care about their financial sustainability. Want to kill Tesla? Do you understand who he was talking to? These people are Tesla investors. Well, maybe that should be "were" now.
- staunch 8y ago
  Your ad hominem attack is against the guidelines of Hacker News. I simply believe that founders, products, and teams determine success and that investor happiness is a lagging indicator. This is clearly what Elon Musk believes too. Wall Street investors are like sheep. You can curse at them all you want. They can bleat all they want. They'll still come running when the food is ready. Believing investors could be loyal to Elon Musk based on his personal behavior is a good way to kill Tesla. They only value the profits that he can generate for them, and he knows it.

howaboutnmc 8y ago

Musk literally said to an investor "Please sell our stock and don't buy it.". Transcript : https://seekingalpha.com/article/4169027-tesla-tsla-q1-2018-results-earnings-call-transcript?page=15 https://seekingalpha.com/article/4169027-tesla-tsla-q1-2018-...

mephitix 8y ago
Context is important :) He was talking specifically to and about day-traders: "We have no interest in satisfying the desires of day traders. I couldn't care less. Please sell our stock and don't buy it."
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microtherion 8y ago
Not that I'm a big fan of Musk, but even somebody as mild mannered as Tim Cook has said things like this in the past: "If you want me to do things only for ROI reasons, you should get out of this stock." https://www.cultofmac.com/268413/tim-cook-tells-profit-obsessed-investors-sell-stock/ https://www.cultofmac.com/268413/tim-cook-tells-profit-obses...

chaostheory 8y ago

It may be a strange call but it's not the first. Overstock's former CEO, Patrick Byrne, had worse calls where he discussed his personal issues.

avoutthere 8y ago

It sounds to me like Musk has a card up his sleeve. If he were truly in fear for the continued existence of Tesla, he would have been very patient and accommodating toward those whom he might need to approach later for more capital. I suspect that he has already secured the capital (or assurances that he will).

ww520 8y ago
No doubt he can raise the needed capital this year, but at what terms and at what dilution. The stock price probably reflects the expected dilution coming up.
dragonwriter 8y ago
> It sounds to me like Musk has a card up his sleeve. It sounds to me like Musk has been projecting near term (<1 year, sometimes even “next quarter”) transition to being cash flow positive and not needing new capital regularly for six years now and is used to just getting away with it even though it's been wrong every time.

bitwize 8y ago

I get the feeling Elon thinks of Tesla as an OLPC for EVs: he doesn't care if the business fails so much as it gets the concept of consumer EVs out there and in people's minds. Which probably doesn't make investors happy and understandably so, but the Musk moves in mysterious ways.

agumonkey 8y ago

I always have an issue about the statistical viewpoint about safety. Musk finds it outrageous that AP like products are nailed by the press but I find it quite normal. It's a new thing, and it's related to injury, it will be pinned. I wouldn't expect any otherwise. Musk should just swallow the pill and just work around that. Press won't write about your car that doesn't kill people. That's absurd.

karthikb 8y ago
Unless that’s your brand - see Volvo.

21 8y ago

Tesla earnings call was the best I've heard in a long time, says Jim Cramer (a CNBC popular analyst): https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/05/03/tesla-earnings-call-was-the-best-ive-heard-in-a-long-time-says-jim-cramer.html https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/05/03/tesla-earnings-call-wa...

xkjkls 8y ago
In the entertainment sense, sure. But Musk is running a $50 billion company, not performing stand up.
- mcguire 8y ago
  Jim Cramer, though, is.
  - xkjkls 8y ago
    presses button to make recorded bull sound

nonbel 8y ago

>'the CEO said an analyst was asking “boring bonehead questions” that were “not cool.”' The thing is that he isn't wrong. I listened to one of these earnings calls the other day and literally fell asleep.

bllguo 8y ago
It's literally his job to talk to investors. He explicitly invited those questions, too. Obviously it would be boring to you as a layman with no money on the line. I'm sure I'd be bored too. That's not relevant though.
- nonbel 8y ago
  >"It's literally his job to talk to investors. He explicitly invited those questions, too." I totally agree, still in my experience they are quite boring. I'm not even advocating for any kind of change or anything, they are probably supposed to be boring. >"Obviously it would be boring to you as a layman with no money on the line." Why would you I assume I was listening to an earnings call without money on the line? But actually, now that you mention it, recordings of those calls could be a good insomnia cure.
  - danso 8y ago
    Why do you have an expectation that a Q&A about financials should be emotionally exciting?
    - nonbel 8y ago
      I don't. I even say this in the post you are replying to.
      - danso 8y ago
        My comment is directed more toward your opening rationalization: "The thing is that he isn't wrong." I don't believe Musk's critics are specifically disagreeing with how boring earnings calls may or may not be. I guess if I expected these calls to be not boring, I would think Musk had made an interesting observation.

ihsw2 8y ago

Oh good, TSLA is on sale at 10% off. Setting aside the abject glibness of this comment, the likelihood of it recovering at this time tomorrow is pretty much guaranteed, and by his logic (not everyone should own this stock) it will be owned by the right people (those that believe in Tesla's ability to deliver a compelling product rather than healthy stock returns).

kc10 8y ago

I have been investing a portion of my paycheck every month for the last three years and never sold TSLA. It's bothering me to see so many high profile departures particularly in finance/accounting groups. And yesterday's conference call was a disaster, I see it as dodging valid questions related to current state of the company and answering open ended interesting questions like "When will Tesla launch its own network of driverless cars?". I just dumped all the $TSLA stock I have bought for the last few years.

garmaine 8y ago
Serious question: why do you pick stocks?
- kc10 8y ago
  For fun and I don't mind losing a portion of my investments on these bets I believe in.
komali2 8y ago
Nice, helping make it cheaper for us :) I for one have been loving the dump, makes it real easy to buy.
- refurb 8y ago
  I have a feeling that posts like this are going to be very entertaining to read in a year or so. Just like the "Dropbox is a stupid idea because..." everyone loves to quote.
  - komali2 8y ago
    Given how much content people post, we can just wait for any company to fail, then google their ticker on sites with comments, find some "idiots" talking about buying their stocks, and laugh at them.
    - refurb 8y ago

holografix 8y ago

I for one completely defend him. It must be excruciating getting the self serving type of questions that all boil down to: “how well can I infer you’re doing so I make sure I make more money or lose less money in the next 6 months?” Over and over and over...

xkjkls 8y ago
If he actually answered it with any new information or to any real degree of satisfaction it wouldn't have been asked so often.
- akmiller 8y ago
  Didn't he provide all of the actual numbers? What else is he supposed to provide?
jcfrei 8y ago
If you don't like it then don't run a public company.

IkmoIkmo 8y ago

Any place to get the audio, given the entire transcript is available?

samstave 8y ago

One of the things I was really was going to happen with Tesla would have been a revival of the boutique auto industry - whereby, one could buy all the subcomponents of the Tesla - a full drive-train-chassis setup with all controls and then build custom bodies on top of them Like trucks and vans etc. Pipe-dream sure, but I was really hoping that this would happen. How hard would it be to extend the length of the chassis only to allow for a long van/bus/truck be built on top of it (and by how hard, I mean "how hard" - not "it couldn't be that hard, could it" type of question)

stale2002 8y ago
Tesla is literally the opposite of that dream. Tesla is effectively the Apple of the car world. The whole thing is locked down, and if you make modifications to the car, they will brick it with software. You don't really "own" that Tesla.
- samstave 8y ago
  Sadly, I know - thats why I said it was a pipe dream.

aresant 8y ago

Not that it's going to happen. But Apple is sitting on ~$270b of cash (1). And is run by a guy in Tim Cook that is a world class operator and fulfillment guy. And who has been criticized for lacking vision :) We can dream right? (1) https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/01/apple-q2-2018-earnings-heres-how-much-money-apple-has.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/01/apple-q2-2018-earnings-heres...

Analemma_ 8y ago
Apple buying Tesla would be a gigantic waste of money. Ben Thompson has explained why in a couple good Stratechery posts, but the tl;dr is, a large percentage of Tesla's valuation is goodwill (its reputation and "coolness factor"), and Apple already has plenty of that, so all the money Apple spent for that piece of Tesla's value would be pure waste. And that's before you get into the fact that huge acquisitions, where the acquired company is in a totally different sector than the buyer, almost never work.
- fooker 8y ago
  Both Apple and Tesla sell luxury electronics. The difference is in just in the size and the number of moving parts.
  - Analemma_ 8y ago
    That's like saying that both Ford and SpaceX sell freight vehicles.
    - fooker 8y ago
      Apple and Tesla both sell to consumers of a rather similar demographic. You can not say the same for Ford and Spacex.
whoisjuan 8y ago
At a market cap of 50bn, assuming they would pay a premium price of let's say 70bn, it's a completely pointless transaction. It's too much money that they could deploy more strategically into other verticals with less risk.

throwaway84742 8y ago

Meh. I say, fuck the “analysts”. The dude is on fire. He can afford it. This is as close to the second coming of Steve Jobs as we’re going to get for quite some time. This is rock n roll. I’m just enjoying the show over here: my TSLA position is relatively small.

xkjkls 8y ago
Afford what exactly? To run a cash flow negative company for quarters on end?
- throwaway84742 8y ago
  Yes.
  - xkjkls 8y ago
    How exactly?
    - throwaway84742 8y ago
      Through the sheer motive force of his gigantic balls.
      - xkjkls 8y ago
        How old are you?

Animats 8y ago

The strange thing is, Tesla finally seems to be getting decent production rates on their Model 3 line.[1] They got 2500 cars out the door in a week at peak, which is respectable. Until recently, output was so low that it was clear the line wasn't working right. They then shut down to retune their production line, which makes sense. They should soon be cranking about 2500-3000 cars a week without much fuss. Once first shift is running smoothly, they can add a second shift. Tesla may be over the hump on getting the business working. But profitability is still a ways off. Tesla may need more capital to get there. What Tesla doesn't need now are distractions. The truck, the new roadster, the next model, self-driving. They need to focus on shipping product before the money runs out. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-tesla-tracker/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-tesla-tracker/

unclebucknasty 8y ago

I was reading all of the thoughtful critiques of Elon's behavior when something occurred to me: there is an awful lot of brain power here that is spending an awful lot of time analyzing the decisions and words of one man. It's actually odd when you think about it: we do a lot of observing and commenting these days (myself included) and I wonder how much more productive we would be individually and as a society if more of our energy was invested in creation and building.

mathinpens 8y ago
I was reading a fun essay by Thoreau about this the other day. I tend to agree that a lot of people pay too much attention to ephemera with minimal value. http://xroads.virginia.edu/~hyper/walden/essays/life.html http://xroads.virginia.edu/~hyper/walden/essays/life.html

Zhenya 8y ago

What a weird call. Especially the callout of the diamler CEO. Elon says that the diamler CEO does not understand physics "He doesn't know much about physics. I know him. I'd be happy to engage in a physics discussion with him. I actually studied physics in college." Wiki says otherwise: "... studied electrical engineering from 1971 to 1976 at the University of Karlsruhe; he graduated as an engineer. He completed his doctorate in engineering in 1982 at the University of Paderborn." -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieter_Zetsche https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieter_Zetsche

nick_urban 8y ago
Engineering students are usually required to study physics.
- mi100hael 8y ago
  Nahhh, I can't imagine physics matters much in engineering /s
- justwalt 8y ago
  I think he’s talking about the other CEO. Musk is 46, meaning he couldn’t have graduated in 76.
douglaswlance 8y ago
You don't have to get a degree to study something.
- scruple 8y ago
  My thoughts exactly. Reading that exchange had me thinking of John Carmack.
justin66 8y ago
Unless he was confused (quite possible) Musk would have been referring to the CEO of Daimler Trucks North America, Martin Daum. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-21/daimler-throws-shade-at-tesla-e-trucks-plan-as-rivalry-heats-up https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-21/daimler-t...

_bxg1 8y ago

It's so hard to see them starting to falter. They were on the cusp of mainstream success.

mikeash 8y ago
They don’t seem to be faltering to me. They’re doing better than they ever have been. They sold almost as many cars last quarter as they did in all of 2014 (which happens to be when I ordered mine). Model 3 production is ramping up much faster than Model S or X production did, and is only a few months behind Elon’s notoriously optimistic predictions.

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mathinpens 8y ago

I don't know all that much about finance but I do know when someone is dodging challenging questions because they don't have good answers...

kgwgk 8y ago

I’m curious: was the word “bizarre” always missing in the title or has it been dropped later?

K2L8M11N2 8y ago
It was dropped.

mwfunk 8y ago

It’s alarming to see the volume of kneejerk defensiveness here. You can idolize Elon Musk but still have a fact-based, rational perspective. You can be rooting for Tesla in the most tribal and idealistic way imaginable and still see their financial challenges clearly and analytically.

singularity2001 8y ago

Please un-editorialize title.

boznz 8y ago

Musk is Willy Wonka for the 21st century, for all his flaws you still gotta love him and lets face it Wonka Chocolates just wouldn't be the same without him.

Giorgi 8y ago

Good. Dumbass "Analysts" can go eat you know what. Tesla is not there to earn some granny their pension, it's there to be life changing company

sidcool 8y ago

The news I dread to hear: "Tesla files for chapter 11".... It almost makes wail. I wish I had enough money to give Tesla a runway, free of Wall Street scrutiny for a year. But that's not in the spirit of capitalism I guess.