15 ms·
So Long Last /8 and Thanks For All the Allocations
- isostatic 8y ago"It's important to keep in mind that while 185/8 is finished, we still have around nine million recovered IPv4 addresses in our available pool. Under current policy and growth rates, we expect these to last a further two years." They've really cracked down on IP allocation since the days of giving companies entire /8s, or even since 2012 "185/8 was allocated in just five and a half years...in comparison, the preceding /8 - allocated under the old needs-based policy - lasted only five months"
- jlg23 8y ago> They've really cracked down on IP allocation since the days of giving companies entire /8s [...] You did not have to be a company, your estimates of how many of the IPs you request you'll plan to use right away, after one and after two years just had to be within some boundaries (ripe form #160, if memory serves me correctly).
- isostatic 8y agoI recently got 3x /25s delegated from various ISPs in various cities, they wanted IP allocation plans
- jlg23 8y agoWell, looks my memory got corrupted over the last 2 decades: apparently not the correct number. Anyway: You had to specify purpose once and provide an allocation plan for the periods I mentioned above.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- nsbq71 8y ago>we still have around nine million recovered IPv4 addresses in our available pool. Under current policy and growth rates, we expect these to last a further two years. And by then they will have recovered even more. The end of IPv4 is a lie, and how bad IPv6 is and the lack of good transitioning systems doesn't help.
- space_fountain 8y agoWe do have more and more people in the world. Things like NATing can help get around it to some extent, but at the end of the day there aren't enough addresses to give every human alive today even one IP address. That doesn't strike me as a problem that can be solved by buybacks.
- beobab 8y agoTrouble is that NAT solved a huge chunk of the problem. The current setup is not quite painful enough for people to want to fix it. The good is the enemy of the great, as it were.
- TeMPOraL 8y agoAKA "worse is better", biting us in the arse once again.
- pdkl95 8y ago> not quite painful enough NAT was (and is) destructive and painful that some of us gave up writing network software in the late-90s/early-00s. I personally abandoned several network-focused projects in the early 2000s. The current status quo only seems "not quite painful enough" if you accept that most people cannot use true network software, limited to client-server architecture where party lines[1] communicate with each other only with the permission of central privileged imprimatur[2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_line_%28telephony%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_line_%28telephony%29 [2] https://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/digital-imprimatur/ https://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/digital-imprimatur/
- alex_hitchins 8y agoDoes anyone know the amount of IP space that's allocated but never used or even allocations that have no routes to? I know there is a market to lease IP4 blocks and there is a resale market. I just wondered how much is just being sat on.
- grenoire 8y agoWhat are the main issues with IPv6? Edit: I did not mean this as a derogatory question. It's legitimate. I simply posted it under the wrong OP. Calm down people.
- alex_hitchins 8y agoSorry, I'm not sure I follow your question.
- ulzeraj 8y agoIMO retarded greedy ISPs issuing /64 prefixes to customers. Now you aren’t supposed to NAT but you can’t have multiple subnets either.
- ceejayoz 8y agoNot a network guy, but I thought IPv6 made subnetting mostly unnecessary? Certainly on an individual consumer level?
- zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 8y agoA subnet is simply a range of addresses assigned for a particular layer 2 network. Not having a subnet is equivalent to not having addresses ... that does not really make sense.
- ceejayoz 8y agoWell, obviously you need one... I'm asking about multiple. IPv6 doesn't have broadcasting, and you've got 18 quintillion IPs in a /64, hence my question.
- cm2187 8y agoEven in developed countries IPv6 is barely deployed (my UK ISP - BT - pretends that they rolled it out but half of the time my modem tells me IPv6 is not availabled until I force it to reconnect, and no sign of IPv6 on mobile networks). Was looking at whether it was more economical to buy a small address block vs rent it from a datacentre. A /24 address block seems to cost around $4,000 upfront but then you need to pay €2,000 signup + €1,400 per yr RIPE membership fee. On the other side IPv4 is not going away and the price is only going to go up given the failure of IPv6 to deploy. Is there any way around the RIPE membership? Like owning an IPv4 address block through a proxy / broker? [edit: RIPE fee]
- JaiR8hiK 8y agoHave you tried using a linux-based router? ISP-provided CPE is notoriously bad on average, especially in the IPv6 area.
- cm2187 8y agoIt's a brand-new BT router so I would be surprised if that was the case. I suspect the non IPv6 connectivity rather come from which node I connect to on the network.
- philjohn 8y agoIf you're on VDSL try grabbing an HG612 from ebay and using that instead, with a decent router behind it. I was running a dual stack setup like that for over a year without issue, before moving over the Virgin Media and having to rely on a HE.net tunnel.
- chrisper 8y agoHetzner allows you to have a block, but it requires you to be a Hetzner client.
- comboy 8y agoAlso you need to provide a reason why you need it and how are you going to use it.
- appdrag 8y agoRIP ipv4 :p And ipv6 is still nearly nowhere...
- sp332 8y agoGoogle says >30% of USA usage is over IPv6. https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html#tab=per-country-ipv6-adoption&tab=per-country-ipv6-adoption https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html#tab=per-... Akamai says 40%. https://www.akamai.com/uk/en/about/our-thinking/state-of-the-internet-report/state-of-the-internet-ipv6-adoption-visualization.jsp https://www.akamai.com/uk/en/about/our-thinking/state-of-the... But it shows a huge jump in May last year, not sure what that's about.
- adventured 8y agoMost countries have a small number of dominant telecom providers. When they adopt IPv6, you'd normally see a very big jump in a short amount of time.
- sp332 8y agoSure, but that doesn't explain why they show the USA jumping from 27.7% to 38.7% in one day (5/24 to 5/25) when Google's numbers don't show a similar rise.
- adventured 8y agoYou see the same jump at the same time in some other countries, such as Norway and Canada. I would guess that's down to a measurement adjustment on the part of Akamai, enabling them to see more adoption that they had been missing.
- cbr 8y agoipv6 to supporting servers is about 20%: https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html
- 8y ago
- d3ckard 8y agoIs it time to just admit IPv6 is a failure and move on to new standard? Adoption is very slow though economical needs are already here. Instead of complaining about users maybe we should do something so they actually want to switch?
- Faaak 8y agoWhy would IPv6 be a failure ? It sounds like you don't know what you're talking about
- d3ckard 8y agoIt's terrible from UX point of view. 1. 128 bit is likely an overkill. 64 bit would give more or less 2 billion addresses per every human for earth. Likely enough. 2. It's unreadable. Why the hell use hex? 3. It's been proposed in 1998. It became a standard last year. Not exactly quick adoption and it tells something. Yes, it will probably be deployed out of necessity, but it's weird nobody noticed that if something doesn't get traction for 20 years, there is probably something wrong with it.
- majewsky 8y ago2. is because of 1. 3. Eh, what? IPv6 was published in 1998, as you say. What makes you think it became a standard only last year?
- urda 8y agoNot OP, but for 3) I believe they are referring to: https://www.internetsociety.org/blog/2017/07/rfc-8200-ipv6-has-been-standardized/ https://www.internetsociety.org/blog/2017/07/rfc-8200-ipv6-h...
- tambre 8y ago1. Easier organization. Allows logical subnetting and more efficient routing. 2. It allows you to see subnetting. It makes managing IPv6 so much easier than IPv4. 3. It became "Internet Standard" last year, because the working group decided that it was about time to combine all the RFCs with the errata corrected in a single RFC. Just a formality. As for traction... blame humans. If there's something better to replace the old thing, but the improvements aren't dramatic enough (e.g. saving tons of money) and the old thing still works, then a huge portion of lazy people won't switch.
- HillaryBriss 8y agoAnother interesting complication is Android's longstanding lack of full support for DHCPv6: https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/3718/does-android-have-support-for-ipv6 https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/3718/does-androi... https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/36949085 https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/36949085
- zlynx 8y agoMany people, myself included, feel DHCPv6 is a silly idea and should go away. IPv6 was designed to not need it, and continuing to use DHCP is just inertia and a desire to keep doing things in the same old way. As I recall originally everyone was supposed to use well-known addresses like ::1, 2, 3 on the current network or multicast DNS. But nooo. Was that too hard? DHCP or nothing! And then DNS was added to SLAAC. The rest of DHCP was always useless. Once you have DNS, it can be used for all other service discovery.
- EE84M3i 8y agoIPv4 address utilization is incredibly low. For example, consider 44.0.0.0/8 - it's sitting around almost entirely unallocated. UCSD Caida uses it for their network telescope (pretending to use it for amateur radio) and won't give it back. Just look at how dark it is: https://benjojo.co.uk/internet-2018.png https://benjojo.co.uk/internet-2018.png (from https://blog.benjojo.co.uk/post/scan-ping-the-internet-hilbert-curve https://blog.benjojo.co.uk/post/scan-ping-the-internet-hilbe...) Discussion on r/amateurradio - https://www.reddit.com/r/amateurradio/comments/ohi7j/did_you_know_that_there_is_a_classa_16777216/ https://www.reddit.com/r/amateurradio/comments/ohi7j/did_you...
- rasz 8y agoNot to mention DOD, its not like they will one day plug all those intranet computers to the internet.
- jjoonathan 8y agoNo, but they probably have a bunch of probes along the lines of "if you see any traffic in these ranges on the public internet, raise all the alarms," which is arguably a kind of usage in its own way.
- theandrewbailey 8y agoCan someone troll them by spoofing addresses and find out?
- Piskvorrr 8y ago"Draco dormiens numquam titillandus."
- Beltiras 8y agoApple has an /8 but Microsoft does not? How did that happen?
- 8y ago
- nashashmi 8y agoCan anyone offer an explanation why IPv6 still has not blanketed the world yet? I mean if client pings an IPv4 address, it should be automatically converted to an IPv6 version. So why isn't IPv4 instantly outdated?
- takeda 8y agoPeople are lazy and will wait for absolutely the last moment: "why should I spend time configuring my network when I still can purchase IPv4?" This was especially bad because vendors and ISPs had the same attitude, so even when there was someone willing to do the work, those parties stayed in the way. I actually see great parallels about Python 2 vs 3. The changes between these versions aren't really big, and converting is not that hard. Other languages already did it many times (Ruby actually did it when switching from 1.8 to 1.9, but people moved on quickly, because if they didn't, their apps and libraries no longer would work and no one would use them). IMHO the real cause was that Python gave a lot of time to do it (nearly 15 years!), but there was no real interest in Py3 until 2015 when Python 2.7 went into maintenance mode (no new features backported, BTW all features of Python 2.7 were backports of Python 3, fueling "Python 3 doesn't have anything new, what should I switch?"), and organizations most likey will wait until 2020 (EOL) to port their applications.
- briffle 8y agoI was a charter business fiber customer for 5 years. (multiple sites in multiple states) I asked every few months, got relayed to the same web page sayings "its rollout is planned in Q4" (for 5 years it said that, never included the year) and gave instructions on how to setup the single 6RD server they had in St. Louis. They merged with a few other cable companies, who had working ipv6, but nobody could give me timelines. We had customers wanting to access our applications via IPV6. We actually had to setup a remote proxy on an IPv6 network to then proxy back over IPv4. I left that job a year ago, so perhaps Charter has had a huge change of heart, but I strongly doubt it.
- tedunangst 8y agoWhat? Converted by who? How does this work?
- djrogers 8y agoIs it just me, or does the excessive use of undefined acronyms make this a difficult read for everyone else too? At the very least, please annotate your first use of acronyms like LIR and RIR so us outsiders have some context.
- jwr 8y agoI'd say that if you don't understand the acronyms, you won't find the rest of the article useful or informative, either, so I don't think it's much of a problem.
- comex 8y agoSpeak for yourself. I know what an /8 is, know what it means to be running out of IPv4 addresses and having to ration the last ones available, and am interested in news about how that process is going, especially insofar as it affects the transition to IPv6. That was enough for me to grasp the majority of the current article, which I found informative. But I’ve never interacted with the IP address allocation process myself, nor is it all that central to my interests, so my knowledge is relatively skin deep. I could tell you what ICANN was and probably remembered that RIPE was one of its regional affiliates, but not much more than that. In particular, I had no idea what an RIR or LIR was. So, while I didn’t mind the use of jargon, neither would it have hurt to spell out the acronyms the first time.
- dredmorbius 8y agoRIR is (unclearly) given: regional internet registry. Your complaint is otherwise wholly valid.
- jlgaddis 8y agoThe intended target audience of this article are people who already know what all of those acronyms mean.
- citrin_ru 8y agoAnybody know why 240.0.0.0/4 is not used? It currently blocked by many routers/firewalls but it was possible to start "unreserving" process long time ago and use this net by now.
- jlgaddis 8y agoEven if they started giving it out, it would be next to useless due to all the legacy network gear that wouldn't play with it.
- oasisbob 8y agoIt's hardcoded to be broken in too many devices. NANOG has long and winding threads about reclaiming the class E space - there was consensus that it wasn't possible to get enough devices unbroken for the space to actually be usable. IIRC, a lot of networking equipment chokes on it.
- tormeh 8y agoIt's hard for an ISP to justify switching. It costs money now, so your competition who do not switch can use the money saved to outcompete you. Switching costs are also likely to fall the longer you wait. Customers don't demand it. If I was CEO of an ISP, I would have ordered a plan, but not put it into action just yet.
- apeace 8y agoI work at a small ISP and I consider this a misconception. Any network equipment your ISP bought or gave you in the last 10-15 years supports IPv6. Equipment only has a certain lifespan anyways, so there really has been no "cost" to upgrade. Maybe a bit of software needed updating. In my experience, the problem is customers don't care that much about IPv6. When your customer is an IT professional who has been configuring networks the same old way for years, they expect to be sent the IPv4 subnet information. It would be a negative customer experience if we gave them an IPv6 subnet by default. Since they don't see the need and aren't used to it, it's bound to cause frustration for them. We do support IPv6 for any customer that wants it. I think IPv6 will happen when web sites can no longer get IPv4 addresses. Then people will start saying, "my favorite site is v6 only!", so the IT people hear about it and start to care. I think it'll be several more years.
- kalleboo 8y ago> I think IPv6 will happen when web sites can no longer get IPv4 addresses With vhosts and the proliferation of CDNs, will this ever happen? If my site is behind CloudFront, I don't need any IPv4 addresses of my own The only thing that IPv6 really solves for end-users is peer-to-peer. If video games, VoIP, etc have lower lag on IPv6 (due to not having to go though a mediating server) customers might demand it.
- fipple 8y agoI’d rather these run out even faster so we can just get on with IPv6. Why waste effort on these dying gasps of v4.
- Spivak 8y agoBecause the 'dying gasps' has a really long tail. My guess that that everyone in this forum will be dead before 25% of the internet is IPv6 only. There's a huge difference between supporting IPv6 and not supporting IPv4; the latter will take much much longer.
- fipple 8y agoI don’t mean killing IPv4 - I mean all infrastructure and ISPs supporting IPv6 and treating IPv4 as legacy. Like V12 gasoline engines. They exist and are even produced today but the world has pretty much abandoned them.
- deathanatos 8y ago> My guess that that everyone in this forum will be dead before 25% of the internet is IPv6 only. Google[1] thinks we're at ~22% world wide, and we've gained ~2% in the last 6 months, so I really hope not. [1]: https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html