28 ms·

Want airline food? Take Amtrak

143 points by gok 9y ago

huebnerob 9y ago
I've taken the California Zephyr between Chicago and SF a couple times now, it's a wonderful experience. 2 1/2 days of solitude from a world with increasingly few remote corners. If you're at all interested, I recommend riding soon. These admittedly impractical long-distance routes are going to be the first to go when budget cuts necessitate it.
- ng12 9y ago
  Google say it takes 31h to drive between the two -- any idea why the Amtrak takes twice that time?
  - yareally 9y ago
    Probably having to yield for other trains.
  - praneshp 9y ago
    33 stops.
    - redorb 9y ago
      I do live in a bad spot for trains (Oklahoma) however they keep trying to build more rails (which make no sense in our region).. to determine how much sense they made to me personally I studied a trip to chicago from oklahoma city. Turns out I couldn't find any destination where trains beat driving or flying in the metrics of time or cost even. I do get that trains work in some regions in the US ~ but we should define those regions or what makes a region good for rail and focus there. Amtrak to me is one of the largest scams the government does - it's a constant money losing operation. It takes in so much money - and loses money on every thing it sells from the tickets to the drinks and food.
      - dima55 9y ago
        Building roads is also a money losing operation. Complain about something else. There's plenty here.
        borkt 9y ago
        Reconstructing an existing road is even worse. Want to repair a failing street? OK, but only if you make every aspect of the supporting infrastructure ADA compliant with the most current laws. We are legislating ourselves out of modern infrastructure.
        matthewmacleod 9y ago
        Or, just maybe, it’s good to make infrastructure accessible?
        noonespecial 9y ago
        He's got an unpopular opinion (and calling out the ADA specifically is probably the worst of the examples that can be chosen) but its worth a thought. When the choice is forced to be "perfect, or none at all", a possible outcome is none at all. On the balance, I find most of these rules to be acceptable most of the time, but it should always be considered that it can be taken too far.
        closeparen 9y ago
        Regulation is a commitment that we prefer "none at all" to the status quo. No more, no less. We talk about regulation creating desirable outcomes, but that's an oversimplification - the ADA does not hire or conscript anyone into the business of creating accessible infrastructure. It threatens that if they won't make their infrastructure accessible, they can't have any. The threat of "none at all" is the whole mechanism.
        noonespecial 9y ago
    - borkt 9y ago
      It often runs a bit late in the morning as well.
  - closeparen 9y ago
    3 days is a relatively aggressive schedule for the road trip. The train makes up for its low average speed by not needing to sleep overnight. The real problem is that the cost is greater than or equal to a 4-hour flight.
    - dvtrn 9y ago
      Why is train travel so much more expensive? Fewer tickets being sold comparatively?
      - geerlingguy 9y ago
        For shorter routes, it's the inverse; I go from STL to CHI (and back) often, and it's $30-40 for a pretty enjoyable short trip; 5-6 hours (compared to driving (4-5 hours), or flying (1 hour, but 2.5+ with airport time and stress included). Flights are usually $90+.
      - akshat_h 9y ago
        Also, maintaining tracks is expensive, especially in a large country like USA, as compared to just maintaining two airports. Kinda makes me wonder how much money is spent on road maintenance that we are not thinking as a cost while driving.
        protomyth 9y ago
        Amtrak doesn't own most of the track they use. They pay track usage payments to the freight railroads that actually own the track. In FY 2009 that was $115.4 million (3.3% of total operation cost). Cannot find the current numbers. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjD-7i738naAhWD3oMKHa6JADkQFggsMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.oig.dot.gov%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2FAMTRAK%2520Access%2520Fees%2520%2528Final%2520redacted3%2529.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2ogNTkB73VBhoBulz6Q8Mp https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&c...
        jandrese 9y ago
  - hyperbovine 9y ago
    I see you have never taken Amtrak before :)
    - drchiu 9y ago
      I’ve not taken the train before, but I’ve heard that the experience is quite different in a good way. No traffic. No hustle and bustle.
  - objectivetruth 9y ago
    A few reasons: the train has to slow down and then get back up to speed for each stop; there are stops in a few cities for refueling / shift change / restocking onboard supplies. These stops take a lot longer than just filling up your gas tank on a road trip, anywhere from 1 to 3 hours. And the article points out that Amtrak is lower priority than freight when track conflicts occur, so you will spend some time sitting on the prairie waiting for a freight train to go by. Realistically, nobody's making that drive in 31 hours anyway without a lot of caffeine and breaking the speed limit.
    - Fins 9y ago
      With that much caffeine you'd be making a lot of pit stops. I did do it in 40 hours and some change, but with one speeding ticket in Utah, and by the time I got home I knew I ain't doing that on "google schedule" again.
  - Spooky23 9y ago
    Driving in shifts for 31h is pretty awful. It’s really an apples to oranges comparison. That’s really a 3 day trip, especially if you’re targeting hotel check in times. The train is generally pleasant and relaxing. I used to do Albany->NYC a few times a month. It takes less time in that case, but I always looked forward to that trip to work, reflect or just observe. The problem with the trains is inconsistent times. They share track with freight in many routes and there is little rhyme or reason for many trips. The error bar for arrival for a Boston->Buffalo trip is 3-4 hours, easy.
    - ng12 9y ago
      I'm not asking about the feasibility of driving nonstop, I'm asking why the average speed of the train is significantly slower.
  - enos 9y ago
    American rail is built for cargo, so there are no sections as fast as a freeway. Also there are several sections that are particularly slow. The track through the Rockies is the original 1869 route, with original curvy single track and original tunnels. Speed there is around 20mph. Sometimes you come close to I-70, where cars are going 60-80mph. The Sierras also have slow sections. That said, those were my favorite parts of the trip.
    - niftich 9y ago
      This is mostly true, but in fact the route currently used by the California Zephyr through the Rockies (Salt Lake City - Soldier Summit - Moffat Tunnel - Denver) was built by the Denver and Rio Grande Western Railroad or its predecessors [1]; the section in question was completed no earlier than 1883. The more famous railroad finished in 1869 takes a more northerly route, through Ogden instead of Provo, and through Rawlins, Laramie, and Cheyenne in Wyoming instead of adjacent to I-70 through Grand Junction and Denver. The mountainous sections of the Zephyr, specifically the crossings of the Rockies and the Sierras, are indeed the least competitive vs. driving. Based off of the official timetable [2], the Zephyr takes: ~9 hours between Chicago and Omaha vs. 7.5 hours driving ~8.5 hours between Omaha and Denver vs. 7.5 hours driving ~15 hours between Denver and Salt Lake City vs. 8 hours driving 9 hours between Salt Lake City and Reno vs. 7.5 hours driving 7.5 hours between Reno and Emeryville vs. hours 3.5 driving Lengthening the driving time to include breaks, the train is viable between Chicago and Denver, and between Salt Lake and Reno, but is nearly twice as slow as driving on other parts of the route. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver_and_Rio_Grande_Western_Railroad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver_and_Rio_Grande_Western_... [2] https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/public/documents/timetables/California-Zephyr-Schedule-072017.pdf https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/p...
      - chx 9y ago
        Stating the obvious here, I know, but Chicago-Denver has so many flights it's not even funny, United, American, Spirit, Southwest, Frontier, well over twenty flights any day.
    - 9y ago
  - niftich 9y ago
    If you're driving alone -- a reasonable assumption if you'd be in the market for a train -- a 31-hour "Google Maps" roadtrip takes 3 days, assuming ~10 hours of "map-time" driving, followed by 6+ hours of civilized sleep. The biggest constraint is "civilized" sleep, which is best had in a real bed at a real hotel, whose locations are constrained by settlements and whose typical availability hours begin at 15:00 local time and end at 11:00 local time. When you're driving west and passing through timezones, you can gain an extra hour that you can use for rest, while if you're driving east, you're racing doubly against the clock, as you're losing an extra hour you could be sleeping in a hotel at every timezone. My longest "map-time" drive sprint (not including stops) between sleeps is 19 hours, which was filled with delirium towards the end, and I would never recommend. I've done a 16-hour sprint to similar results, and have done multiple ~12-hour sprints with no issues whatsoever. In my experience, 12 hours is around the upper limit of how much "map-time" distance one can safely drive between sleeps, especially if one is to perform a comparable drive for three consecutive days.
    - bluGill 9y ago
      Over the road truckers are limited to 11 hours per day for good reason, your brain thinks falsely it can safely do more, but studies show otherwise. I have found on my cross country trips that there are plenty of small towns scatters across the US to make finding a hotel within an hour easy (though I'm sure you can find exceptions). I have also found a lot of interesting "small town" parks and culture because I forced myself to stop and find something (anything!) to do after 11 hours on the road.
    - ng12 9y ago
      Yes, but trains don't need to sleep. I'm not saying I'd recommend driving 31h at a time, I'm saying I don't understand why that would be so much faster.
      - icelancer 9y ago
        Plenty of stops and built-in delays with overlaid industrial trains. Additionally, you aren't going generally as fast as a car can, especially on long stretches of rural highways.
  - trimbo 9y ago
    Wendover Productions has a good video that explains this and many other reasons why trains suck in the US https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbEfzuCLoAQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbEfzuCLoAQ Spoiler: freight companies own most of the track
  - mindslight 9y ago
    Track work, waiting on local traffic (especially commuter), train police pulling someone off the train, etc. You can tell the people who've never taken the train before when they start asking why it's stopped. I say this out of love, to set expectations. Cross country, if you want to get somewhere ASAFP take a plane. If you want to enjoy a leisurely week+, drive. If you're willing to spend a few days for the scenery of a road trip without having to do the logistics, take the train.
  - improbable22 9y ago
    The timetable is set partly so that you sleep during the boring bits and have daylight in the mountains. At least it was when I did Chicago -> SF a few years ago. It was great, after the prairies you woke up in Denver & lots more people got on, spent a day going through the Rockies, sleep, and then a day in the Sierras. (I'm pretty sure we spent some of the night parked in a siding.)
  - dredmorbius 9y ago
    The rights-of-way are shared with, and subservient to, freight rail, and the roads themselves are owned by the freight lines. Top speed is limited to 79 mph, and is lower in many areas. As with software development, delays tend to be additive, and not made up. Any service disruption (track, equipment, weather, accidents, crews) means hours, occasionally (though fairly rarely) days of delays.
- ghaff 9y ago
  You're probably right. The California Zephyr or the Empire Builder are on my "should do once when the stars align" list but they probably won't be an option forever. I should probably consider doing one of them at some point when the stars get at reasonably in the vicinity.
DeepYogurt 9y ago
I can echo the Zephyr experience. Fantastic service. We were late, but I would highly recommend it. If nothing else you can simply show up 10 minutes before departure and get on. Then just get off a minute or two after your arrival. You're treated like a human on a train.
reaperducer 9y ago
Amtrak's current food is far superior to airline food. I'm speaking as a regular Empire Builder, Sunset Limited, and Southwest Chief first class passenger. The only disappointment is that for some reason, I can't get food served in my room on the Sunset Limited. No problems on the other routes. It's kind of sad if Amtrak has to sacrifice freshly-prepared food for airline heat-n-eat fare. But if it means an additional passenger car can be added, I'm OK with it. Full trains are a bigger problem than fresh food for Amtrak. (Though its biggest problem is a shortage of trains and routes.)
- SlowRobotAhead 9y ago
  Depends on where you are flying. ANA is my favorite airline (Japan), but Lufthansa (Germany) has better food I think. EVA (Asia) food isn’t great, but United and Delta are still worse imo.
  - wdewind 9y ago
    My experiences with ANA have been pretty fantastic. One time I was flying to Japan and the plane were going to get on was hit by lightning as it landed. Apparently the FAA then requires a mandatory rebooting and testing process that takes 6 hours. ANA did three things here that really separated them from other airlines: 1. During the 6 hour wait, despite there being no news, I could walk up to the counter and say "Hey just checking again to see if there's any update?" and every single time, without fail, they were friendly, polite and apologetic for the situation. 2. When we got on board the captain got on the loud speaker and immediately apologized profusely "for our incompetence." The plane was struck by lightning, a literal "act of god" and the captain still apologized to us. 3. When we landed in Tokyo they handed us about $200 in cash to deal with taking a cab since it was much later than expected arrival. I just can't imagine this kind of treatment from an American airline, even on international flights.
    - SlowRobotAhead 9y ago
      Thts cool, yea ANA seems to get it. I also appreciated the bidets on the plane toilets :)
mschuster91 9y ago
As a regular rider of Germany's night trains: what's the problem with eating in a roomette (sleeper car cabin)? First of all I already hate it when the cabin mates see me totally groggy - much less a whole fucking dining car. In addition, no dining car can fit as many people as there fit in a single sleeper car, much less a whole train composed of 10-15 sleeper cars.
- rossdavidh 9y ago
  Having done both, it's much roomier on the Amtrak dining cars, you get better food, and they will bring it to your cabin if you want that, as I recall, so it's not like you're forced to eat in the dining car. I like Germany's night trains a lot, but for Amtrak this is clearly a downgrade.
- nowarninglabel 9y ago
  I'm fairly anti-social, but I actually love meeting people in the dining car. Some of the best socializing experiences I've ever had.
- herbst 9y ago
  I took trains all over Europe the thing is the smell. Imagine someone taking MC Donald's in a train, which is already horrible on a open floor plan wagon. Some people just can't stand some smells and cabins are usually always small and don't provide enough fresh air to compensate for Smelly food. I've left cabins before, and I've seen other people do so. It can be a huge annoyance.
- ant6n 9y ago
  DB doesn't operate night trains since 2016.
  - mschuster91 9y ago
    The ÖBB has taken them over - including the cars themselves.
    - deleted 9y ago
jgrahamc 9y ago
This is sad. I spent six weeks traveling the entire Amtrak system in the early 1990s and it was a wonderful experience. And the food was good.
crmd 9y ago
I have a strange love for the Acela Express' cheeseburger. If I wasn't sitting in a meeting right now I would go to Penn Station now and take a ride to Newark for that burger.
- vibrio 9y ago
  wow I'd have guess that was untouchable. Now I'm going to have to try it. Since ShakeShack appeared in Penn station, that and a tall beer or two has been my post-work Acela fare.
  - op00to 9y ago
    It’s microwaved. It’s not good.
- dag11 9y ago
  Maybe it's a specific brand you can buy? The normal cafe car pizza is, for example, the very same DiGiorno microwave pizza I lazily ate throughout high school. So that too is comfort food to me, garbage as it is.
- rexf 9y ago
  The author of this site [0] seems to enjoy the cheeseburger too > (rather good, in fact) all-American cheeseburger in the dining car [0] - https://www.seat61.com/california-zephyr.htm https://www.seat61.com/california-zephyr.htm
ape4 9y ago
Doesn't the low pressure in a plane contribute to the blandless. Not a problem on trains.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- asteli 9y ago
  The recipes used account for this, increasing spicing. The low humidity is also a factor I think. The larger struggle is logistical, not culinary. You're eating what amounts to a recently-frozen TV dinner, designed for the least-spice-tolerant palate, engineered to not dry out in the time between being reheated and served. Even if you can nail the flavor, there's no way to get a good texture (imagine good french fries, or breaded chicken) when you account for what the food has to go through to be served hot in the air.
bpchaps 9y ago
I'm actually happy with this, having taken around five >24hr Amtrak trips over the past few years. The dining car is pretty great overall, but the announcements for it get really, really grating really quickly. Because all announcements go over intercom, everyone hears it - maybe 20 announcements through out the day. Really breaks the mood if you packed your own meal.
kazinator 9y ago
Want decent airline food? JAL, ANA.
pkaye 9y ago
I didn't have a good experience the last time I took Amtrak and had dining on board. It was the only time in my life I felt I was discriminated against in a dining setting. It was near the end of dinner time and food was likely running low so i didn't expect much. However after seating us, she took on two other groups and continued to fully serve them drinks and meal before coming back to our table for drinks. And by this time, nearly every item we wanted of interest was out of stock. With this kind of service, I rather they just serve premade airline quality food.
- mistercleo 9y ago
  Were you dining à la carte or without a reservation? Maybe the later arriving parties had already had their food set aside in the kitchen because they were traveling on a ticket with meals included and/or had a reservation. I travelled only once with bedroom accommodations and recall we were assigned reservation times when to show for our pre-paid meals.
  - pkaye 9y ago
    Yes without a reservation. However, the first half of dinner hour was for reservations then they took people in without reservations. By the time we were called, anyone with reservations would have long been accommodated. I understand that food might run out but they could have atleast asked us about drinks.
tyingq 9y ago
Midwest Express had crazy good food. Miss them. Eggs Benedict with mimosas on the way to Milwaukee. At low fare pricing with business class seating. No wonder they folded I suppose. Good while it lasted.
darkstar999 9y ago
Took the Amtrak from San Diego to Anaheim last year business class. It smelled like a sewer. Wifi was unusable. Is that normal?
- HuggableSquare 9y ago
  Amtrak wifi is typically pretty bad because it's cellular, so it ends up roaming between towers constantly and you have a ton of people all on the same network. As for it smelling like a sewer, that is not normal, no.
johan_larson 9y ago
Good, good. The sooner Amtrak alienates its remaining customer base, the sooner it can be scrapped. There are only a few parts of the country that are settled densely enough -- and broadly enough -- for passenger trains to make sense. Any moves toward consolidation of service to only those areas should be welcomed.
- gascan 9y ago
  Why do you want rail to be scrapped?
  - Redoubts 9y ago
    Why should it be kept?
    - anderber 9y ago
      It's a great option of travel. It's good for us to have a variety of ways to travel. Sure, the government doesn't subsidize train travel as much as it does for air and road, but I believe it's important, and so do others. "Yes, Amtrak is subsidized. So are all competing forms of transportation. Highways cover only 51 percent of their costs from all user fees, including the gas tax. The rest is paid by subsidies of one form or another, especially from local property taxes. Airlines receive massive subsidies in the form of airports and the air traffic control system. The day after 9/11, the airlines ran to Capitol Hill and were immediately given billions of dollars in additional taxpayer money, no questions asked." http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/dont-railroad-amtrak/ http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/dont-railroa...
  - johan_larson 9y ago
    I don't want to scrap it all, just the parts that require hefty subsidies to serve places that have realistic alternatives. US households usually have cars and for those that don't, intercity buses tend to serve even very tiny burgs. So most people most do have realistic alternatives. Trains are the right solution in some cases. Commuter rail often makes sense. And in some densely populated regions, intercity trains make sense too. But in most of the US, because of the distances between cities, cars and planes work better.
hb3b 9y ago
The steak on the Acela is great!
dshep 9y ago
I've only taken Amtrak once, from Portland to San Francisco. One of the best parts was having dinner in the dining car. Two older ladies invited me to join them because I was by myself and we had a nice chat while cruising through the mountains. Sad to see it go, but I guess it was only a matter of time.
- dahdum 9y ago
  I’ve done the same trip by myself, met so many interesting people in the dining and observation cars.
scyclow 9y ago
I took the Empire Builder a couple weeks ago, and the Lakeshore Limited + California Zephyr last year. As much as I enjoyed the trips, I have to admit that they longer lines are incredibly impractical. Amtrak is operating at a huge loss per passenger ($32 on average)[1], and the prices aren't even that much cheaper than flying. It's viable for people with more time than money, but most of the passengers are just weirdos who enjoy wasting their time taking the train cross-country in 2018 (like me). In any case, I'm sorry to see them thinking about nixing the dining car, since it was one of my favorite parts. The food is surprisingly good (if not over priced), and it's a great way to meet random people from around the country. Coming from the liberal New York tech-bubble, I definitely met a bunch of people I wouldn't have otherwise had a chance to talk to. But at least they're not getting rid of the observation car! Sitting in it through the Rockies on the Zephyr was a great way to see that beautiful stretch. [1] https://www.downsizinggovernment.org/transportation/privatizing-amtrak https://www.downsizinggovernment.org/transportation/privatiz...
- shriphani 9y ago
  I took the california zephyr after 2 harsh years (professionally); from Chicago to SF. So many inner demons were vanquished on that trip. That train route is truly a love-letter to America - the Colorado river, the Sierra Nevada, beautiful life-changing stuff.
  - imh 9y ago
    That sounds beautifully scenic. What time of year would you recommend for it?
    - f_allwein 9y ago
      Everything you could possibly want to know about cross country trains: https://www.seat61.com/UnitedStates.htm https://www.seat61.com/UnitedStates.htm
      - hn_user2 9y ago
rdl 9y ago
Taxpayers (and freight customers) shouldn't be subsidizing a novelty form of transportation for rail fans. If there's a subset of people who want this service, they should pay sufficient fares to cover the cost of service. Amtrak isn't doing that.
- Doctor_Fegg 9y ago
  As a non-driver[1], I totally look forward to the day when my taxes are no longer used to fund the road network and its deleterious effects. [1] can drive, choose not to, don't own a car
  - rdl 9y ago
    Federal highways are about 30-50% funded by gas tax in the US; I agree fuel taxes should be increased to the point where they pay for the road network. (State/local roads are separate, and are much more multi-model in use, at least in cities, so it's harder to apportion costs.) (https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2009/09/17/do-highway-users-pay-for-the-highway-system-not-even-close/ https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2009/09/17/do-highway-users-pay-...)
- riffic 9y ago
  You're correct - taxpayers should be subsidizing an improved form of rail transit instead (see china, europe, japan.)
  - pzone 9y ago
    Taxpayers should barely subsidize trains, if at all. If they're not profitable it's a very strong sign they shouldn't be run in the first place. (Or prices should be increased.) America is very different from Europe and Japan. Japan's population is concentrated in a single megalopolis. Europe is denser than America as well, 700 million people in roughly the same area. Another reason sprawling rail networks aren't a great idea in the US is that our geography is cleaved down the middle by a 1000 mile swath that is sparsely populated, and bordered by a massive mountain range.
raintrees 9y ago
My wife and I celebrated our 20 year anniversary with a 7 train, 3 week trip last year. The food was good for the first couple of weeks, but I think 3 weeks was a week too long - All things can eventually be monotonous. We went out and scored a bottle of horse radish in DC to spice up the surf and turf... That helped. The most picturesque of the routes we took for us were the California Zephyr and the Empire Builder. https://raintreesbytrain.wordpress.com/ https://raintreesbytrain.wordpress.com/
jMyles 9y ago
I have traveled Amtrak quite a lot - across the country on the Empire Builder, Southwest Chief, and California Zephyr. And many other routes. I think the food is usually decent - the veggie burger is reliably edible. What I can say is terrible - and what has caused me to cease using Amtrak - is the presence of the DEA. In case you haven't experienced this, the DEA sometimes raids specific sleeper cars at a station, demanding money, guns, or drugs. I had no idea about this until it happened to me. It was absolutely, positively terrifying. I (and my partner) were repeatedly threatened with violence if we didn't allow our bags to be searched (which of course we didn't). Our 2.5 year old was screaming in terror the entire time. They refused to tell of their names or let us see the numbers on their badges - they only flashed their badges for 250ms at us. We recorded them on both of our phones and a camera. At one point, a DEA agent physically tried to swat my phone out of my hands. They told us that we had been selected "randomly", but I found out soon after that a colleague of mine, seven cars back, had also been "randomly" selected. I later found out from an Amtrak employee that we were the only ones on the train who had been raided and that it was never random - they research people in advance and select who to raid. Apparently being involved in any way in crypto-blockchain tech is enough to trigger such an event (indeed their primary questioning to my colleague was about his hardware wallet, which they took the majority of their time with him to inspect and photograph). The Amtrak employee further told me that she and others are terrified of these agents - that there had been times when they themselves had been subject to their antics and also to unwanted advances at their departing stations. She said that they have learned to just leave the train and stay out of the way and also encouraged me to complain to Amtrak or file a lawsuit, saying that if we were able to get the DEA off Amtrak we'd be doing Amtrak employees a big favor. If Amtrak can't protect me against armed thugs coming into my sleeper car and terrorizing my family, they are simply not a viable solution for transportation IMO. I encourage you to reconsider Amtrak - if you ride often enough, this will happen to you. A quick google search will show you that this is a common, if largely unknown practice. Here are some links: * https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/08/10/dea-travel-record-airport-seizures/88474282/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/08/10/dea-travel-re... * https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/10/the-perils-of-going-west-on-amtrak/500651/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/10/the-per... * https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/dea-bribed-amtrak-workers-for-free-rider-information-long-after-exposure-paid-single-source-30m-report-says https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/dea-bribed-a... * https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2015/05/12/another-asset-forfeiture-outrage-2/?utm_term=.aaeb5d526a22 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2015/05/12/...
halfnibble 9y ago
Somebody get this man a plastic spoon!
jccalhoun 9y ago
I would love for there to be some actual high speed rail in the USA but there really isn't. The only Amtrak anywhere near me is if I drove 70 minutes or so to Indianapolis to get on a train that left at 6am and got to Chicago at 10 am. No thanks.
seltzered_ 9y ago
One thing I remember about the dining car is that if you’re traveling alone you sit with other people in a 4-person booth. It’s been at least one way to get away from staring at a screen/window alone and talk with people you may not normally encounter. This said, maybe Amtrak is trying to optimize for the people that ride it - from my west coast anecdata it usually skewed to lower-income people needing to get somewhere on short notice (where air prices got too much), or worked for the govt in a way that it the price was discounted. (And to a smaller extent thieves, adventurers, photographers, and people afraid of flying) Thinking aloud, it’d be interesting if Amtrak could pair with a food delivery app so folks doing a long distance trip could order something from a midway stop.
- electricEmu 9y ago
  I'm a West Coast, medium-income, short and overnight traveler, who doesn't work for the government, isn't an adventurer/photographer, and doesn't fear of flying. I ride Amtrak frequently (more than fly). I rather like the Amtrak steak. I think your model is wrong.
  - seltzered_ 9y ago
    Thanks for the input. My model was just anecdata from riding a few times. Realized my negative sentiments are all from overnight trips.
scraft 9y ago
I used to go to a business conference every year in SF (I am from the UK). Also, in the summer a few friends and I would regularly take 9/10 days off and rail around Europe, seeing new cities, exploring and having fun. A few years ago, I had a bit of holiday available, so took it straight after the conference in SF to travel from SF to New York (with the most part of the Zephr train). I explained what I was doing to one American at the conference and he couldn't get his head around it. "But you can fly" and "but it is cheaper to fly" and "but you can get their faster by flying". I explained I wanted to be on the train, unwinding, watching America move past my window, speak to all sorts of people. Go to sleep in one state and wake up in another. After a long chat, the American was happy to leave me be. The next day I am talking to someone at the conference and the American from yesterday turns up, I do a little nod and wave to acknowledge him, but he comes over and interrupts. He is with 5 other Americans and says to them "this is the British guy I was talking to you about!" and I had to explain to more people what I am doing and why. It was then like a snow ball effect for the rest of the conference. I spoke to so many Americans that had never been on a train, which seemed just as bizarre to me as I seemed to them. Anyway, the Zephr ride was amazing, there was a drought and heat wave in California and Chicago was in -15°C freezing temperatures. I saw the land scale change from sky scrapers to empty space, climbed up and around the Sierra Nevadas, went through your after hour of flat farm land and so the outside change from sun to snow. I spoke to so many people from devout Christians from the South, to a train driver/operator (who told us when the driver wasn't doing as well as he could and explained how various parts of the train work), to a retired couple who are travel regularly to see their kids, to college students to military men. In the observatory carriage you get an amazing view of the country going by and sometimes have guides come on board to give you some history and information about the area. This was supplemented by eager locals who told me even more and pointed out wildlife as we travelled. I slept brilliantly in my bed each night and enjoyed nice food three times a day. It was like being on a package holiday where you eat too much, drink too much and sleep too much. Needless to say I really enjoyed it and have been on a few more similar journeys in the US since (but the Zephr was the best). When I arrived in New York I was only there one night but that was fine for me, I was more interested in the train ride. After a tiring week at the conference, the train ride was such a breath of fresh air, a chance to decompress and relax, being forced to do nothing except enjoy the surroundings, have a few days off from appointments, to dos, worries and stress. I have been to quite a few American cities, but felt I got a better sense of what America is from taking that train ride.
Empact 9y ago
I’m all for this move. If amtrak is to succeed, it has to do so on the basis of efficiency and service. If people aren’t willing to pay the prices neccessary to cover the cost of food, and unions are unwilling to reduce the cost of production, then we’re at an impasse and should cancel the service in order to free up operational capital for running more service and improving service in other ways. Trust me, people will find ways to eat! Making food a money sinkhole is contrary to history and experience. It makes sense as a loss leader, not when the system as a whole is a loss.
Stranger43 9y ago
So Amtrack is downgrading their food to the same level as their far more successful European counterparts and everyone panics and sees it as a sign of their imminent demise. I think people are overreacting a bit but then again i am used to the cramped overcrowded European railway network which likely have much different problems to what's seen in America.
rayiner 9y ago
> Yes, you heard me right, and I believe it’s part of a plan to dismantle the National Network—shutting down most, if not all, long-distance trains, to focus on the Northeast Corridor, Midwest (Chicago) and California short- and medium-distance services, and state-supported trains. That would be fantastic.
lionhearted 9y ago
I logged in to post my ode to the San Francisco<->Chicago California Zephyr... but looks like it's already pretty well-covered. It's really incredibly beautiful and great for thinking. SF<->Seattle on the Coast Starlight is also wonderful, those two routes are absolute gems. Worth doing them now if you're at all interested; they might well not operate in a few years. Amtrak USA Rail Pass is also an exceptionally good value if you're looking to see a lot of the USA in a short period of time — https://www.amtrak.com/take-the-trains-across-america-with-usa-rail-pass https://www.amtrak.com/take-the-trains-across-america-with-u...

143 points by gok 9y ago

I've taken the California Zephyr between Chicago and SF a couple times now, it's a wonderful experience. 2 1/2 days of solitude from a world with increasingly few remote corners. If you're at all interested, I recommend riding soon. These admittedly impractical long-distance routes are going to be the first to go when budget cuts necessitate it.

ng12 9y ago
Google say it takes 31h to drive between the two -- any idea why the Amtrak takes twice that time?
- yareally 9y ago
  Probably having to yield for other trains.
- praneshp 9y ago
  33 stops.
  - redorb 9y ago
    I do live in a bad spot for trains (Oklahoma) however they keep trying to build more rails (which make no sense in our region).. to determine how much sense they made to me personally I studied a trip to chicago from oklahoma city. Turns out I couldn't find any destination where trains beat driving or flying in the metrics of time or cost even. I do get that trains work in some regions in the US ~ but we should define those regions or what makes a region good for rail and focus there. Amtrak to me is one of the largest scams the government does - it's a constant money losing operation. It takes in so much money - and loses money on every thing it sells from the tickets to the drinks and food.
    - dima55 9y ago
      Building roads is also a money losing operation. Complain about something else. There's plenty here.
      - borkt 9y ago
        Reconstructing an existing road is even worse. Want to repair a failing street? OK, but only if you make every aspect of the supporting infrastructure ADA compliant with the most current laws. We are legislating ourselves out of modern infrastructure.
        matthewmacleod 9y ago
        Or, just maybe, it’s good to make infrastructure accessible?
        noonespecial 9y ago
        He's got an unpopular opinion (and calling out the ADA specifically is probably the worst of the examples that can be chosen) but its worth a thought. When the choice is forced to be "perfect, or none at all", a possible outcome is none at all. On the balance, I find most of these rules to be acceptable most of the time, but it should always be considered that it can be taken too far.
        closeparen 9y ago
        Regulation is a commitment that we prefer "none at all" to the status quo. No more, no less. We talk about regulation creating desirable outcomes, but that's an oversimplification - the ADA does not hire or conscript anyone into the business of creating accessible infrastructure. It threatens that if they won't make their infrastructure accessible, they can't have any. The threat of "none at all" is the whole mechanism.
        noonespecial 9y ago
  - borkt 9y ago
    It often runs a bit late in the morning as well.
- closeparen 9y ago
  3 days is a relatively aggressive schedule for the road trip. The train makes up for its low average speed by not needing to sleep overnight. The real problem is that the cost is greater than or equal to a 4-hour flight.
  - dvtrn 9y ago
    Why is train travel so much more expensive? Fewer tickets being sold comparatively?
    - geerlingguy 9y ago
      For shorter routes, it's the inverse; I go from STL to CHI (and back) often, and it's $30-40 for a pretty enjoyable short trip; 5-6 hours (compared to driving (4-5 hours), or flying (1 hour, but 2.5+ with airport time and stress included). Flights are usually $90+.
    - akshat_h 9y ago
      Also, maintaining tracks is expensive, especially in a large country like USA, as compared to just maintaining two airports. Kinda makes me wonder how much money is spent on road maintenance that we are not thinking as a cost while driving.
      - protomyth 9y ago
        Amtrak doesn't own most of the track they use. They pay track usage payments to the freight railroads that actually own the track. In FY 2009 that was $115.4 million (3.3% of total operation cost). Cannot find the current numbers. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjD-7i738naAhWD3oMKHa6JADkQFggsMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.oig.dot.gov%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2FAMTRAK%2520Access%2520Fees%2520%2528Final%2520redacted3%2529.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2ogNTkB73VBhoBulz6Q8Mp https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&c...
        jandrese 9y ago
- hyperbovine 9y ago
  I see you have never taken Amtrak before :)
  - drchiu 9y ago
    I’ve not taken the train before, but I’ve heard that the experience is quite different in a good way. No traffic. No hustle and bustle.
- objectivetruth 9y ago
  A few reasons: the train has to slow down and then get back up to speed for each stop; there are stops in a few cities for refueling / shift change / restocking onboard supplies. These stops take a lot longer than just filling up your gas tank on a road trip, anywhere from 1 to 3 hours. And the article points out that Amtrak is lower priority than freight when track conflicts occur, so you will spend some time sitting on the prairie waiting for a freight train to go by. Realistically, nobody's making that drive in 31 hours anyway without a lot of caffeine and breaking the speed limit.
  - Fins 9y ago
    With that much caffeine you'd be making a lot of pit stops. I did do it in 40 hours and some change, but with one speeding ticket in Utah, and by the time I got home I knew I ain't doing that on "google schedule" again.
- Spooky23 9y ago
  Driving in shifts for 31h is pretty awful. It’s really an apples to oranges comparison. That’s really a 3 day trip, especially if you’re targeting hotel check in times. The train is generally pleasant and relaxing. I used to do Albany->NYC a few times a month. It takes less time in that case, but I always looked forward to that trip to work, reflect or just observe. The problem with the trains is inconsistent times. They share track with freight in many routes and there is little rhyme or reason for many trips. The error bar for arrival for a Boston->Buffalo trip is 3-4 hours, easy.
  - ng12 9y ago
    I'm not asking about the feasibility of driving nonstop, I'm asking why the average speed of the train is significantly slower.
- enos 9y ago
  American rail is built for cargo, so there are no sections as fast as a freeway. Also there are several sections that are particularly slow. The track through the Rockies is the original 1869 route, with original curvy single track and original tunnels. Speed there is around 20mph. Sometimes you come close to I-70, where cars are going 60-80mph. The Sierras also have slow sections. That said, those were my favorite parts of the trip.
  - niftich 9y ago
    This is mostly true, but in fact the route currently used by the California Zephyr through the Rockies (Salt Lake City - Soldier Summit - Moffat Tunnel - Denver) was built by the Denver and Rio Grande Western Railroad or its predecessors [1]; the section in question was completed no earlier than 1883. The more famous railroad finished in 1869 takes a more northerly route, through Ogden instead of Provo, and through Rawlins, Laramie, and Cheyenne in Wyoming instead of adjacent to I-70 through Grand Junction and Denver. The mountainous sections of the Zephyr, specifically the crossings of the Rockies and the Sierras, are indeed the least competitive vs. driving. Based off of the official timetable [2], the Zephyr takes: ~9 hours between Chicago and Omaha vs. 7.5 hours driving ~8.5 hours between Omaha and Denver vs. 7.5 hours driving ~15 hours between Denver and Salt Lake City vs. 8 hours driving 9 hours between Salt Lake City and Reno vs. 7.5 hours driving 7.5 hours between Reno and Emeryville vs. hours 3.5 driving Lengthening the driving time to include breaks, the train is viable between Chicago and Denver, and between Salt Lake and Reno, but is nearly twice as slow as driving on other parts of the route. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver_and_Rio_Grande_Western_Railroad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver_and_Rio_Grande_Western_... [2] https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/public/documents/timetables/California-Zephyr-Schedule-072017.pdf https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/p...
    - chx 9y ago
      Stating the obvious here, I know, but Chicago-Denver has so many flights it's not even funny, United, American, Spirit, Southwest, Frontier, well over twenty flights any day.
  - 9y ago
- niftich 9y ago
  If you're driving alone -- a reasonable assumption if you'd be in the market for a train -- a 31-hour "Google Maps" roadtrip takes 3 days, assuming ~10 hours of "map-time" driving, followed by 6+ hours of civilized sleep. The biggest constraint is "civilized" sleep, which is best had in a real bed at a real hotel, whose locations are constrained by settlements and whose typical availability hours begin at 15:00 local time and end at 11:00 local time. When you're driving west and passing through timezones, you can gain an extra hour that you can use for rest, while if you're driving east, you're racing doubly against the clock, as you're losing an extra hour you could be sleeping in a hotel at every timezone. My longest "map-time" drive sprint (not including stops) between sleeps is 19 hours, which was filled with delirium towards the end, and I would never recommend. I've done a 16-hour sprint to similar results, and have done multiple ~12-hour sprints with no issues whatsoever. In my experience, 12 hours is around the upper limit of how much "map-time" distance one can safely drive between sleeps, especially if one is to perform a comparable drive for three consecutive days.
  - bluGill 9y ago
    Over the road truckers are limited to 11 hours per day for good reason, your brain thinks falsely it can safely do more, but studies show otherwise. I have found on my cross country trips that there are plenty of small towns scatters across the US to make finding a hotel within an hour easy (though I'm sure you can find exceptions). I have also found a lot of interesting "small town" parks and culture because I forced myself to stop and find something (anything!) to do after 11 hours on the road.
  - ng12 9y ago
    Yes, but trains don't need to sleep. I'm not saying I'd recommend driving 31h at a time, I'm saying I don't understand why that would be so much faster.
    - icelancer 9y ago
      Plenty of stops and built-in delays with overlaid industrial trains. Additionally, you aren't going generally as fast as a car can, especially on long stretches of rural highways.
- trimbo 9y ago
  Wendover Productions has a good video that explains this and many other reasons why trains suck in the US https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbEfzuCLoAQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbEfzuCLoAQ Spoiler: freight companies own most of the track
- mindslight 9y ago
  Track work, waiting on local traffic (especially commuter), train police pulling someone off the train, etc. You can tell the people who've never taken the train before when they start asking why it's stopped. I say this out of love, to set expectations. Cross country, if you want to get somewhere ASAFP take a plane. If you want to enjoy a leisurely week+, drive. If you're willing to spend a few days for the scenery of a road trip without having to do the logistics, take the train.
- improbable22 9y ago
  The timetable is set partly so that you sleep during the boring bits and have daylight in the mountains. At least it was when I did Chicago -> SF a few years ago. It was great, after the prairies you woke up in Denver & lots more people got on, spent a day going through the Rockies, sleep, and then a day in the Sierras. (I'm pretty sure we spent some of the night parked in a siding.)
- dredmorbius 9y ago
  The rights-of-way are shared with, and subservient to, freight rail, and the roads themselves are owned by the freight lines. Top speed is limited to 79 mph, and is lower in many areas. As with software development, delays tend to be additive, and not made up. Any service disruption (track, equipment, weather, accidents, crews) means hours, occasionally (though fairly rarely) days of delays.
ghaff 9y ago
You're probably right. The California Zephyr or the Empire Builder are on my "should do once when the stars align" list but they probably won't be an option forever. I should probably consider doing one of them at some point when the stars get at reasonably in the vicinity.

DeepYogurt 9y ago

I can echo the Zephyr experience. Fantastic service. We were late, but I would highly recommend it. If nothing else you can simply show up 10 minutes before departure and get on. Then just get off a minute or two after your arrival. You're treated like a human on a train.

reaperducer 9y ago

Amtrak's current food is far superior to airline food. I'm speaking as a regular Empire Builder, Sunset Limited, and Southwest Chief first class passenger. The only disappointment is that for some reason, I can't get food served in my room on the Sunset Limited. No problems on the other routes. It's kind of sad if Amtrak has to sacrifice freshly-prepared food for airline heat-n-eat fare. But if it means an additional passenger car can be added, I'm OK with it. Full trains are a bigger problem than fresh food for Amtrak. (Though its biggest problem is a shortage of trains and routes.)

SlowRobotAhead 9y ago
Depends on where you are flying. ANA is my favorite airline (Japan), but Lufthansa (Germany) has better food I think. EVA (Asia) food isn’t great, but United and Delta are still worse imo.
- wdewind 9y ago
  My experiences with ANA have been pretty fantastic. One time I was flying to Japan and the plane were going to get on was hit by lightning as it landed. Apparently the FAA then requires a mandatory rebooting and testing process that takes 6 hours. ANA did three things here that really separated them from other airlines: 1. During the 6 hour wait, despite there being no news, I could walk up to the counter and say "Hey just checking again to see if there's any update?" and every single time, without fail, they were friendly, polite and apologetic for the situation. 2. When we got on board the captain got on the loud speaker and immediately apologized profusely "for our incompetence." The plane was struck by lightning, a literal "act of god" and the captain still apologized to us. 3. When we landed in Tokyo they handed us about $200 in cash to deal with taking a cab since it was much later than expected arrival. I just can't imagine this kind of treatment from an American airline, even on international flights.
  - SlowRobotAhead 9y ago
    Thts cool, yea ANA seems to get it. I also appreciated the bidets on the plane toilets :)

mschuster91 9y ago

As a regular rider of Germany's night trains: what's the problem with eating in a roomette (sleeper car cabin)? First of all I already hate it when the cabin mates see me totally groggy - much less a whole fucking dining car. In addition, no dining car can fit as many people as there fit in a single sleeper car, much less a whole train composed of 10-15 sleeper cars.

rossdavidh 9y ago
Having done both, it's much roomier on the Amtrak dining cars, you get better food, and they will bring it to your cabin if you want that, as I recall, so it's not like you're forced to eat in the dining car. I like Germany's night trains a lot, but for Amtrak this is clearly a downgrade.
nowarninglabel 9y ago
I'm fairly anti-social, but I actually love meeting people in the dining car. Some of the best socializing experiences I've ever had.
herbst 9y ago
I took trains all over Europe the thing is the smell. Imagine someone taking MC Donald's in a train, which is already horrible on a open floor plan wagon. Some people just can't stand some smells and cabins are usually always small and don't provide enough fresh air to compensate for Smelly food. I've left cabins before, and I've seen other people do so. It can be a huge annoyance.
ant6n 9y ago
DB doesn't operate night trains since 2016.
- mschuster91 9y ago
  The ÖBB has taken them over - including the cars themselves.
  - deleted 9y ago

jgrahamc 9y ago

This is sad. I spent six weeks traveling the entire Amtrak system in the early 1990s and it was a wonderful experience. And the food was good.

crmd 9y ago

I have a strange love for the Acela Express' cheeseburger. If I wasn't sitting in a meeting right now I would go to Penn Station now and take a ride to Newark for that burger.

vibrio 9y ago
wow I'd have guess that was untouchable. Now I'm going to have to try it. Since ShakeShack appeared in Penn station, that and a tall beer or two has been my post-work Acela fare.
- op00to 9y ago
  It’s microwaved. It’s not good.
dag11 9y ago
Maybe it's a specific brand you can buy? The normal cafe car pizza is, for example, the very same DiGiorno microwave pizza I lazily ate throughout high school. So that too is comfort food to me, garbage as it is.
rexf 9y ago
The author of this site [0] seems to enjoy the cheeseburger too > (rather good, in fact) all-American cheeseburger in the dining car [0] - https://www.seat61.com/california-zephyr.htm https://www.seat61.com/california-zephyr.htm

ape4 9y ago

Doesn't the low pressure in a plane contribute to the blandless. Not a problem on trains.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
asteli 9y ago
The recipes used account for this, increasing spicing. The low humidity is also a factor I think. The larger struggle is logistical, not culinary. You're eating what amounts to a recently-frozen TV dinner, designed for the least-spice-tolerant palate, engineered to not dry out in the time between being reheated and served. Even if you can nail the flavor, there's no way to get a good texture (imagine good french fries, or breaded chicken) when you account for what the food has to go through to be served hot in the air.

bpchaps 9y ago

I'm actually happy with this, having taken around five >24hr Amtrak trips over the past few years. The dining car is pretty great overall, but the announcements for it get really, really grating really quickly. Because all announcements go over intercom, everyone hears it - maybe 20 announcements through out the day. Really breaks the mood if you packed your own meal.

kazinator 9y ago

Want decent airline food? JAL, ANA.

pkaye 9y ago

I didn't have a good experience the last time I took Amtrak and had dining on board. It was the only time in my life I felt I was discriminated against in a dining setting. It was near the end of dinner time and food was likely running low so i didn't expect much. However after seating us, she took on two other groups and continued to fully serve them drinks and meal before coming back to our table for drinks. And by this time, nearly every item we wanted of interest was out of stock. With this kind of service, I rather they just serve premade airline quality food.

mistercleo 9y ago
Were you dining à la carte or without a reservation? Maybe the later arriving parties had already had their food set aside in the kitchen because they were traveling on a ticket with meals included and/or had a reservation. I travelled only once with bedroom accommodations and recall we were assigned reservation times when to show for our pre-paid meals.
- pkaye 9y ago
  Yes without a reservation. However, the first half of dinner hour was for reservations then they took people in without reservations. By the time we were called, anyone with reservations would have long been accommodated. I understand that food might run out but they could have atleast asked us about drinks.

tyingq 9y ago

Midwest Express had crazy good food. Miss them. Eggs Benedict with mimosas on the way to Milwaukee. At low fare pricing with business class seating. No wonder they folded I suppose. Good while it lasted.

darkstar999 9y ago

Took the Amtrak from San Diego to Anaheim last year business class. It smelled like a sewer. Wifi was unusable. Is that normal?

HuggableSquare 9y ago
Amtrak wifi is typically pretty bad because it's cellular, so it ends up roaming between towers constantly and you have a ton of people all on the same network. As for it smelling like a sewer, that is not normal, no.

johan_larson 9y ago

Good, good. The sooner Amtrak alienates its remaining customer base, the sooner it can be scrapped. There are only a few parts of the country that are settled densely enough -- and broadly enough -- for passenger trains to make sense. Any moves toward consolidation of service to only those areas should be welcomed.

gascan 9y ago
Why do you want rail to be scrapped?
- Redoubts 9y ago
  Why should it be kept?
  - anderber 9y ago
    It's a great option of travel. It's good for us to have a variety of ways to travel. Sure, the government doesn't subsidize train travel as much as it does for air and road, but I believe it's important, and so do others. "Yes, Amtrak is subsidized. So are all competing forms of transportation. Highways cover only 51 percent of their costs from all user fees, including the gas tax. The rest is paid by subsidies of one form or another, especially from local property taxes. Airlines receive massive subsidies in the form of airports and the air traffic control system. The day after 9/11, the airlines ran to Capitol Hill and were immediately given billions of dollars in additional taxpayer money, no questions asked." http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/dont-railroad-amtrak/ http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/dont-railroa...
- johan_larson 9y ago
  I don't want to scrap it all, just the parts that require hefty subsidies to serve places that have realistic alternatives. US households usually have cars and for those that don't, intercity buses tend to serve even very tiny burgs. So most people most do have realistic alternatives. Trains are the right solution in some cases. Commuter rail often makes sense. And in some densely populated regions, intercity trains make sense too. But in most of the US, because of the distances between cities, cars and planes work better.

hb3b 9y ago

The steak on the Acela is great!

dshep 9y ago

I've only taken Amtrak once, from Portland to San Francisco. One of the best parts was having dinner in the dining car. Two older ladies invited me to join them because I was by myself and we had a nice chat while cruising through the mountains. Sad to see it go, but I guess it was only a matter of time.

dahdum 9y ago
I’ve done the same trip by myself, met so many interesting people in the dining and observation cars.

scyclow 9y ago

I took the Empire Builder a couple weeks ago, and the Lakeshore Limited + California Zephyr last year. As much as I enjoyed the trips, I have to admit that they longer lines are incredibly impractical. Amtrak is operating at a huge loss per passenger ($32 on average)[1], and the prices aren't even that much cheaper than flying. It's viable for people with more time than money, but most of the passengers are just weirdos who enjoy wasting their time taking the train cross-country in 2018 (like me). In any case, I'm sorry to see them thinking about nixing the dining car, since it was one of my favorite parts. The food is surprisingly good (if not over priced), and it's a great way to meet random people from around the country. Coming from the liberal New York tech-bubble, I definitely met a bunch of people I wouldn't have otherwise had a chance to talk to. But at least they're not getting rid of the observation car! Sitting in it through the Rockies on the Zephyr was a great way to see that beautiful stretch. [1] https://www.downsizinggovernment.org/transportation/privatizing-amtrak https://www.downsizinggovernment.org/transportation/privatiz...

shriphani 9y ago
I took the california zephyr after 2 harsh years (professionally); from Chicago to SF. So many inner demons were vanquished on that trip. That train route is truly a love-letter to America - the Colorado river, the Sierra Nevada, beautiful life-changing stuff.
- imh 9y ago
  That sounds beautifully scenic. What time of year would you recommend for it?
  - f_allwein 9y ago
    Everything you could possibly want to know about cross country trains: https://www.seat61.com/UnitedStates.htm https://www.seat61.com/UnitedStates.htm
    - hn_user2 9y ago

rdl 9y ago

Taxpayers (and freight customers) shouldn't be subsidizing a novelty form of transportation for rail fans. If there's a subset of people who want this service, they should pay sufficient fares to cover the cost of service. Amtrak isn't doing that.

Doctor_Fegg 9y ago
As a non-driver[1], I totally look forward to the day when my taxes are no longer used to fund the road network and its deleterious effects. [1] can drive, choose not to, don't own a car
- rdl 9y ago
  Federal highways are about 30-50% funded by gas tax in the US; I agree fuel taxes should be increased to the point where they pay for the road network. (State/local roads are separate, and are much more multi-model in use, at least in cities, so it's harder to apportion costs.) (https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2009/09/17/do-highway-users-pay-for-the-highway-system-not-even-close/ https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2009/09/17/do-highway-users-pay-...)
riffic 9y ago
You're correct - taxpayers should be subsidizing an improved form of rail transit instead (see china, europe, japan.)
- pzone 9y ago
  Taxpayers should barely subsidize trains, if at all. If they're not profitable it's a very strong sign they shouldn't be run in the first place. (Or prices should be increased.) America is very different from Europe and Japan. Japan's population is concentrated in a single megalopolis. Europe is denser than America as well, 700 million people in roughly the same area. Another reason sprawling rail networks aren't a great idea in the US is that our geography is cleaved down the middle by a 1000 mile swath that is sparsely populated, and bordered by a massive mountain range.

raintrees 9y ago

My wife and I celebrated our 20 year anniversary with a 7 train, 3 week trip last year. The food was good for the first couple of weeks, but I think 3 weeks was a week too long - All things can eventually be monotonous. We went out and scored a bottle of horse radish in DC to spice up the surf and turf... That helped. The most picturesque of the routes we took for us were the California Zephyr and the Empire Builder. https://raintreesbytrain.wordpress.com/ https://raintreesbytrain.wordpress.com/

jMyles 9y ago

I have traveled Amtrak quite a lot - across the country on the Empire Builder, Southwest Chief, and California Zephyr. And many other routes. I think the food is usually decent - the veggie burger is reliably edible. What I can say is terrible - and what has caused me to cease using Amtrak - is the presence of the DEA. In case you haven't experienced this, the DEA sometimes raids specific sleeper cars at a station, demanding money, guns, or drugs. I had no idea about this until it happened to me. It was absolutely, positively terrifying. I (and my partner) were repeatedly threatened with violence if we didn't allow our bags to be searched (which of course we didn't). Our 2.5 year old was screaming in terror the entire time. They refused to tell of their names or let us see the numbers on their badges - they only flashed their badges for 250ms at us. We recorded them on both of our phones and a camera. At one point, a DEA agent physically tried to swat my phone out of my hands. They told us that we had been selected "randomly", but I found out soon after that a colleague of mine, seven cars back, had also been "randomly" selected. I later found out from an Amtrak employee that we were the only ones on the train who had been raided and that it was never random - they research people in advance and select who to raid. Apparently being involved in any way in crypto-blockchain tech is enough to trigger such an event (indeed their primary questioning to my colleague was about his hardware wallet, which they took the majority of their time with him to inspect and photograph). The Amtrak employee further told me that she and others are terrified of these agents - that there had been times when they themselves had been subject to their antics and also to unwanted advances at their departing stations. She said that they have learned to just leave the train and stay out of the way and also encouraged me to complain to Amtrak or file a lawsuit, saying that if we were able to get the DEA off Amtrak we'd be doing Amtrak employees a big favor. If Amtrak can't protect me against armed thugs coming into my sleeper car and terrorizing my family, they are simply not a viable solution for transportation IMO. I encourage you to reconsider Amtrak - if you ride often enough, this will happen to you. A quick google search will show you that this is a common, if largely unknown practice. Here are some links: * https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/08/10/dea-travel-record-airport-seizures/88474282/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/08/10/dea-travel-re... * https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/10/the-perils-of-going-west-on-amtrak/500651/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/10/the-per... * https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/dea-bribed-amtrak-workers-for-free-rider-information-long-after-exposure-paid-single-source-30m-report-says https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/dea-bribed-a... * https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2015/05/12/another-asset-forfeiture-outrage-2/?utm_term=.aaeb5d526a22 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2015/05/12/...

halfnibble 9y ago

Somebody get this man a plastic spoon!

jccalhoun 9y ago

I would love for there to be some actual high speed rail in the USA but there really isn't. The only Amtrak anywhere near me is if I drove 70 minutes or so to Indianapolis to get on a train that left at 6am and got to Chicago at 10 am. No thanks.

seltzered_ 9y ago

One thing I remember about the dining car is that if you’re traveling alone you sit with other people in a 4-person booth. It’s been at least one way to get away from staring at a screen/window alone and talk with people you may not normally encounter. This said, maybe Amtrak is trying to optimize for the people that ride it - from my west coast anecdata it usually skewed to lower-income people needing to get somewhere on short notice (where air prices got too much), or worked for the govt in a way that it the price was discounted. (And to a smaller extent thieves, adventurers, photographers, and people afraid of flying) Thinking aloud, it’d be interesting if Amtrak could pair with a food delivery app so folks doing a long distance trip could order something from a midway stop.

electricEmu 9y ago
I'm a West Coast, medium-income, short and overnight traveler, who doesn't work for the government, isn't an adventurer/photographer, and doesn't fear of flying. I ride Amtrak frequently (more than fly). I rather like the Amtrak steak. I think your model is wrong.
- seltzered_ 9y ago
  Thanks for the input. My model was just anecdata from riding a few times. Realized my negative sentiments are all from overnight trips.

scraft 9y ago

I used to go to a business conference every year in SF (I am from the UK). Also, in the summer a few friends and I would regularly take 9/10 days off and rail around Europe, seeing new cities, exploring and having fun. A few years ago, I had a bit of holiday available, so took it straight after the conference in SF to travel from SF to New York (with the most part of the Zephr train). I explained what I was doing to one American at the conference and he couldn't get his head around it. "But you can fly" and "but it is cheaper to fly" and "but you can get their faster by flying". I explained I wanted to be on the train, unwinding, watching America move past my window, speak to all sorts of people. Go to sleep in one state and wake up in another. After a long chat, the American was happy to leave me be. The next day I am talking to someone at the conference and the American from yesterday turns up, I do a little nod and wave to acknowledge him, but he comes over and interrupts. He is with 5 other Americans and says to them "this is the British guy I was talking to you about!" and I had to explain to more people what I am doing and why. It was then like a snow ball effect for the rest of the conference. I spoke to so many Americans that had never been on a train, which seemed just as bizarre to me as I seemed to them. Anyway, the Zephr ride was amazing, there was a drought and heat wave in California and Chicago was in -15°C freezing temperatures. I saw the land scale change from sky scrapers to empty space, climbed up and around the Sierra Nevadas, went through your after hour of flat farm land and so the outside change from sun to snow. I spoke to so many people from devout Christians from the South, to a train driver/operator (who told us when the driver wasn't doing as well as he could and explained how various parts of the train work), to a retired couple who are travel regularly to see their kids, to college students to military men. In the observatory carriage you get an amazing view of the country going by and sometimes have guides come on board to give you some history and information about the area. This was supplemented by eager locals who told me even more and pointed out wildlife as we travelled. I slept brilliantly in my bed each night and enjoyed nice food three times a day. It was like being on a package holiday where you eat too much, drink too much and sleep too much. Needless to say I really enjoyed it and have been on a few more similar journeys in the US since (but the Zephr was the best). When I arrived in New York I was only there one night but that was fine for me, I was more interested in the train ride. After a tiring week at the conference, the train ride was such a breath of fresh air, a chance to decompress and relax, being forced to do nothing except enjoy the surroundings, have a few days off from appointments, to dos, worries and stress. I have been to quite a few American cities, but felt I got a better sense of what America is from taking that train ride.

Empact 9y ago

I’m all for this move. If amtrak is to succeed, it has to do so on the basis of efficiency and service. If people aren’t willing to pay the prices neccessary to cover the cost of food, and unions are unwilling to reduce the cost of production, then we’re at an impasse and should cancel the service in order to free up operational capital for running more service and improving service in other ways. Trust me, people will find ways to eat! Making food a money sinkhole is contrary to history and experience. It makes sense as a loss leader, not when the system as a whole is a loss.

Stranger43 9y ago

So Amtrack is downgrading their food to the same level as their far more successful European counterparts and everyone panics and sees it as a sign of their imminent demise. I think people are overreacting a bit but then again i am used to the cramped overcrowded European railway network which likely have much different problems to what's seen in America.

rayiner 9y ago

> Yes, you heard me right, and I believe it’s part of a plan to dismantle the National Network—shutting down most, if not all, long-distance trains, to focus on the Northeast Corridor, Midwest (Chicago) and California short- and medium-distance services, and state-supported trains. That would be fantastic.

lionhearted 9y ago

I logged in to post my ode to the San Francisco<->Chicago California Zephyr... but looks like it's already pretty well-covered. It's really incredibly beautiful and great for thinking. SF<->Seattle on the Coast Starlight is also wonderful, those two routes are absolute gems. Worth doing them now if you're at all interested; they might well not operate in a few years. Amtrak USA Rail Pass is also an exceptionally good value if you're looking to see a lot of the USA in a short period of time — https://www.amtrak.com/take-the-trains-across-america-with-usa-rail-pass https://www.amtrak.com/take-the-trains-across-america-with-u...