15 ms·

In a Leaked Memo, Apple Warns Employees to Stop Leaking Information

555 points by jsmthrowaway 8y ago

IBM 8y ago
Somewhat ironic that this memo got leaked but I think in this case it actually serves their purpose for it to be read by everyone (including potential employees). I think this part is key and is something I've always wondered about: >While it may seem flattering to be approached, it’s important to remember that you’re getting played. The success of these outsiders is measured by obtaining Apple’s secrets from you and making them public. A scoop about an unreleased Apple product can generate massive traffic for a publication and financially benefit the blogger or reporter who broke it. But the Apple employee who leaks has everything to lose. I completely understand what's in it for the reporter, but I've never understood what the employee gets out of it. I've been reading Mark Gurman's scoops about Apple for years so I'm definitely biased in wanting that to continue. It just seems like there's tons of upside for the reporter and only downside for the leaker. Also I wonder what goes through a reporter's head when one of their sources get fired because they leaked to them. I'd feel extremely guilty if someone was fired or prosecuted because of me. Not sure how they do it.
- loceng 8y ago
  And downside for the organization -- first to market is important, and rewarding thieves over the innovators - giving thieves resources over the innovators, is not good overall for society.
  - wuliwong 8y ago
    I think IMB's question was just limited to understanding the employee's motivations, I don't think they were implying there are no other affected parties.
    - loceng 8y ago
      Didn't mean to imply that if I did, essentially just wanted to add to their comment.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- chc 8y ago
  Maybe they just want people to know the thing they're leaking. I'm sure there are people who find corporate secrecy policies annoying (somebody finds basically every corporate policy annoying) and would view a chance to flout them as an upside in itself.
- melvinmt 8y ago
  Who says the employee is not being rewarded?
  - IBM 8y ago
    Maybe they are? But I think that would magnify the downside of leaking by 10x for limited upside? Note I'm talking about people who work in Cupertino. It makes complete sense for someone working at a supplier in Asia to leak for money, doesn't really make much sense for a software engineer.
    - ghaff 8y ago
      Having worked with the tech press a lot, having written in pubs myself, and knowing quite a few reporters well, I think I can confidently say that payments for inside information are pretty rare. In a previous job, I knew lots of information about many companies under NDA and never had a whiff of this sort of thing.
- yodon 8y ago
  >I’ve never understood what the employee gets out of it The intelligence services have done a great deal of research into the persona of the press leaker/Wikileaks leaker (as distinct from the more traditional espionage leaker). A common trait is for the press leaker to be either highly over-qualified for their job or believe themselves to be over-qualified for their job. The belief coming out of that research is a sense of being under appreciated and a deep need to be recognized by someone (even themselves) for something they’ve done is the primary motivation for this class of leaker. The “leaking good and important things” blanket that the leaks are wrapped in then becomes a secondary factor that is used by the leaker to justify their actions to themselves in their quest for the recognition they need. I doubt if corporate press leakers have been studied as heavily as intelligence sector leakers, but the chances are good there are some similar motivations at play.
  - gameswithgo 8y ago
    >The “leaking good and important things” blanket that the leaks are wrapped in then becomes a secondary factor that is used by the leaker to justify Sounds like how a sociopath would interpret the motivations of a good person.
    - JumpCrisscross 8y ago
      > the motivations of a good person Edward Snowden and someone who leaks an upcoming iPhone's rounded edges are not in the same category.
  - DINKDINK 8y ago
    >research into the persona of the press leaker Source?
    - yodon 8y ago
      I’ve been looking for a source to cite on this and my google-fu isn’t pulling it up. Most of the multiple discussions I’ve read on this research were probably around 18 months ago. I’m pretty sure some of the work has been discussed on HN before so hopefully someone else will be able to pull up a link.
- praneshp 8y ago
  Sometimes the leaker might think they have an upside. I worked (generally, in the same floor/area) with one such person[0]. The actual emails are available for the public, the leaker wanted some coverage for the new startup she was going to move to. [0]: https://www.mercurynews.com/2015/08/18/ex-yahoo-employee-admits-leaking-information-to-author-of-marissa-mayer-book/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2015/08/18/ex-yahoo-employee-adm...
  - bhhaskin 8y ago
    Man that site is bad. First thing on mobile is a full ad.
    - praneshp 8y ago
      I chose it after I tried to google for a better article. The other ones are paywalled[0] or scribd[1] [0]: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-08/yahoo-sues-ex-staffer-over-claims-she-shared-secrets-with-writer https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-08/yahoo-sue... [1]: https://www.scribd.com/document/275069641/Yahoo-vs-Cecile-Lal-Stipulation-Injunction https://www.scribd.com/document/275069641/Yahoo-vs-Cecile-La...
- ghaff 8y ago
  There are a number of reasons even if there's no formal quid pro quo such as money under the table or even a nice meal. Reporters cultivate relationships with sources and sharing some inside information can come to be seen as just helping out a friend with some tidbit that doesn't really hurt anything. Furthermore, there can be an ego thing around sharing things you know that other people don't.
- koolba 8y ago
  > I completely understand what's in it for the reporter, but I've never understood what the employee gets out of it. I've been reading Mark Gurman's scoops about Apple for years so I'm definitely biased in wanting that to continue. It just seems like there's tons of upside for the reporter and only downside for the leaker. There's four reasons people leak information: 1. Out of moral responsibility to report unsafe or illegal activity. 2. To cause direct harm to the root organization because they feel slighted by some action in the past. 3. The "leak" is officially sanctioned as part of a submarine. 4. Ego. Numbers 3 and 4 are the biggies.
  - matt_wulfeck 8y ago
    I think it’s a lot more complicated than your oversimplification. For example, where does a quid-pro-quo relationship fit into your categories? Saying leaked out of “ego” is equivalent to saying it was leaked “because”. We know it was something internal to the leaker’s psyche, but research should help us understand what led up to that point and how it could have been avoided. For example, would you say a gossiper gossips because of “ego”?
    - greedo 8y ago
      A gossiper gossips to raise their status; having inside information (and revealing it) shows that they are more knowledgable than the person they gossip to.
  - smudgymcscmudge 8y ago
    Somewhere on there should be personal vendettas. More than once I’ve seen screenshots of internal conversations on Business Insider that were clearly motivated by a desire to get that person fired.
    - koolba 8y ago
      I'd consider that part of #2.
    - cavanasm 8y ago
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- Waterluvian 8y ago
  Maybe I'm simple but I'm sometimes at tradeshows as an engineering authority. Its hard at times not to say too much, because it's just kind of natural. You have questions and I want to help. I want to share knowledge. I can absolutely appreciate why I can't tell people everything they want to know but it's not my natural state to decline to do so. An example from this week. Someone was asking about the usual questions. Stuff on our website that I can comfortably answer. Then they casually led the conversation to the tech side in appreciation that I'm an engineer doing a great job. He eventually asked, "what feature in your latest release are you the most proud of?" I badly want to tell you because it's fucking cool stuff. But I won't because you're an investor for our competition.
  - joezydeco 8y ago
    You'll learn more than you ever expected to know by hanging out at hotel bars during tradeshows. Another great source is the airplane ride to the show. I've heard of at least one tech columnist that would watch people working on laptop presentations on the flights and pick up all kinds of scoops.
    - AmericanChopper 8y ago
      As an ex-smoker, I’ve heard some highly sensitive stuff in publicly accessible smoking areas.
  - lotsofpulp 8y ago
    People like to talk about themselves, but they need to remember that the person they're conversing with might use it against them. In my opinion, it's a very important trait to learn, both how to prevent yourself from giving out information and how to get it out of someone. Pay attention to someone if they keep stuttering or "forgetting key" parts of the statement they're making, getting others to fill in the blanks is one of the easiest ways since our minds just want to do that. So you intentionally pretend to have difficulty remembering what you're saying and let the other person tell you.
  - toyg 8y ago
    Classic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlwwVuSUUfc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlwwVuSUUfc
- greedo 8y ago
  People leak/gossip/whistleblow for a variety of reasons: 1. Immediate Financial - They either have a direct quid-pro-quo with the leak recipient, or stand to benefit directly from the leak. 2. Disagreement with the direction/decision-making - They want Apple to do something different, and internal (legitimate) attempts to influence this decision have failed; usually because the leaker doesn't have the political capital. 3. Vanity/Ego - More of a contributing factor to #2, but they want a feeling of power that comes from leaking. 4. Trolling - A subset of #3 really. Some people just want to watch the world burn. 5. Revenge - Feeling screwed out of a promotion, or otherwise neglected? Leak! 6. Low self-esteem - If you're approached by a reporter or blogger, having something of value is a way to boost yourself.
  - alexandercrohde 8y ago
    Can we not group whistleblowing, a usually-legal heroic action of reporting immoral/illegal behavior (to the extent that you can be awarded millions of dollars by the government for whistelblowing) with leaking trivial product details?
    - greedo 8y ago
      If you think the motives of whistleblowers are as pure as the driven snow, we'll just have to agree to disagree. #2 covers their actions, but not all whistleblowers are related to Mother Teresa.
      - LoSboccacc 8y ago
        > not all whistleblowers are related to Mother Teresa so some of them are good?
        dang 8y ago
        Please don't do this here.
      - alexandercrohde 8y ago
        You're making a strawman argument. I'm not arguing "all whistleblowers are good people," I'm citing the definition of whisteblowing is "a person who informs on a person or organization engaged in an illicit activity." Reporting a CEO embezzling is whistleblowing. Announcing apple is working on a new gizmo is not. Don't conflate them.
- ghostbrainalpha 8y ago
  Reporters trying to get leaks can also be extremely charming, flirtatious, and often use alcohol to get people to open up. They can also be extremely manipulative. Like pretending they know something already, and so its ok to comment on it, OR they say they are going to print with something that is wrong and damaging for the company. For example the next iPhone only has 6 GB of storage. You can either not confirm that, or you correct them, and say "I think you mean 600 GB", at which point you just leaked a major new feature.
  - walshemj 8y ago
    Yeh why do you think TLA's have used journalistic cover in the past its a similar sort of job when it comes down to it.
- debt 8y ago
  On the contrary, we all are carrying around GPS tracking devices in our pockets that almost every modern worker in most contexts needs to have. So if Apple or Facebook wants leaks to stop happening they need to reverse course and stop the unofficial mandate to connect the world or get a device into every person’s hands. These things are becoming global phenomenon pervasive in nearly everyone’s lives and yet they demand a near total lack of transparency of how they operate. Seems hypocritical and unfair at best and maybe unethical or immoral at worst. Massive organizations and businesses, people and families rely on these things so they at least should have some insight into their operation.
- cafard 8y ago
  Not all leaks are unauthorized. Organizations often want to put information or misinformation out without taking responsibility for it. The media has paper and airtime to fill, and may or may not be picky about its sources. It is not unusual for an organization to do authorized leaks and try to chase down unauthorized leakers. I'm not sure how many reporters have done jail time to protect their sources, but I'm sure that more than a few have been threatened with it.
- gaius 8y ago
  I've never understood what the employee gets out of it Revenge against a real or imaginary slight, by senior managers, or even their own line manager.
- carterehsmith 8y ago
  > but I've never understood what the employee gets out of it They may get money? Some of these companies have valuation in hundreds of billions, and a small bit of news can nudge that +/- 0.5-2% or more which could be a couple billions dollars. If you own just 0.1% of the stock, that would be several $m opportunity . So, paying your informer, say, $100K or something, sounds reasonable, if you can execute it properly, even accounting for fake informers.
- trisimix 8y ago
  I assume theyd be sad they lost a source of income. Some people are good at surpressing their conscience.
- pfarnsworth 8y ago
  Back during the dot com boom, I worked at a small, but public company. Wall Street analysts (or people that worked for them) would randomly call people up on their office phones (back during the days when people had their own office phone number) and try to befriend people. If they got a hook, over the course of a few phone calls, they would totally stroke their egos, and then ask them for information about the company. For employees it was like they were doing favors for their friend, and the things they were asking were generally pretty small, but could increase over time. We were warned about this happening since it happened before, so I'm sure similar techniques that worked 20 years ago still work today. It's just a form of social engineering.
- fjsolwmv 8y ago
  That's funny wording because Steve Jobs management philosophy was all about "playing" his employees and partners, to extract world-changing inventions for minimal compensation.
  - dpkonofa 8y ago
    Source?
- vbezhenar 8y ago
  > I've never understood what the employee gets out of it Bucks?
- daveheq 8y ago
  The employee may get paid by the reporting agency, or have friends in journalism who are also enthusiasts.
sneak 8y ago
This article sounds like it was written by Apple. “everything to lose”? Really?
- kabdib 8y ago
  "You'll nevah woik in dis bidness again..." Frankly, when you tell a room full of people about something it's practically guaranteed to leak. The exceptions seem to be (a) secrets nobody cares about ("We're rewriting our ductwork design software!") and things that involve government secrets (and that doesn't always work). I had a couple of housemates who were in the US submarine service. They never talked about what they did, even 20 years retired, and were very upset when the book Blind Man's Bluff was published.
  - jsgo 8y ago
    Whereas I was at university with a guy who was previously in the Navy and was stationed on a large sub (name escapes me) and he claimed when they were at port and bored, they'd look into hotel windows where the blinds were left open with the periscope. Hopefully for Apple's sake, he never went to work for them.
- jsnell 8y ago
  Everything after the bolded "Here’s the memo:" is indeed written by Apple. That's kind of the nature of quoting a memo...
  - MajorSauce 8y ago
    TBF, they should have worked the formatting so that it is easier to find for someone looking the said memo without having to scan through the whole article.
    - ghaff 8y ago
      And the wording of the memo--quoting people and so forth--reads more like a news story than it does an internal memo. I had to go back through it to realize that the entire bottom section is a memo because memos are typically written in a single person's voice.
sergiotapia 8y ago
Can they not tweak specific word variations to track down where the leak is coming from? You can narrow it down to which department the leak is coming from at least.
- simlevesque 8y ago
  That's assuming the leaker is repeating what (s)he heard/read verbatim instead of paraphrasing.
- megaman22 8y ago
  Ah, the good old Canary Trap https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canary_trap https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canary_trap
- tajen 8y ago
  Is there a name for that? Steganography? Watermarking? Both don’t specifically describe the idea of swapping words or homographs (rn = m) to embed the name of the person who received a copy of a document to bust the leaker.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- Barrin92 8y ago
  Honestly, that requires a pretty gullible leaker. If the person leaking information cross-checks what information coworkers got and doesn't leak identifiable documents (others mentioned unique watermarks) it's probably going to be hard to track them down
Mononokay 8y ago
> Josh Shaffer, whose team’s work was part of the iOS 11 leak last fall. Is leaking the reason it was rushed out the door? If not, I can't imagine why he's upset about it.
- deft 8y ago
  Yeah, how does it affect him at all? He worked on a great product and the leak didn't make it worse. Most likely just Apple trying to add a personal element to dissuade leakers, by also accusing them of hurting friends/colleagues.
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    > Apple trying to add a personal element to dissuade leakers, by also accusing them of hurting friends/colleagues. Many at Apple enjoy the reveal of what they've been working on, so they can go and tell other people about it. It kind of takes the fun out if it leaks early.
  - djcapelis 8y ago
    For a moment, imagine the situation: You show up to work each day. You've been working a lot lately, but you're really excited about the thing you're working on. You're looking forward to when it's ready and ships. But it's not time yet. It's not ready. You want the world to see it when you're ready to really show them something. Not just the idea of a thing, but the actual thing. When they can see it, touch it, understand it and breathe it. When they can really appreciate what you've been doing. You've been working on this thing for awhile. You know there's still a long slog ahead. But you think—hey, one day soon, we'll get to talk about this thing. Then one morning, you get into the office and you see some blog is talking about your project. They have a bunch of the details wrong, but it's definitely the project you're working on. And they're saying it's coming out in the next update. Your work never has the chance to speak for itself. Someone decided to speak for your work instead. Just so they could feel important. It wasn't even their work to speak for. It was yours, and you and others had already been making decisions on how you wanted to talk about it, what things you wanted to show and where and how you wanted the work to speak for itself. Wouldn't you be annoyed about it? Wouldn't you be disappointed that someone leaked your work when later when you do finally announce it people don't let your work speak for itself, but just compare your work to whatever their minds imagined, made up and idealized about what you might be working on, doing or building?
Jyaif 8y ago
Weird, a friend at Apple received the same email, but with different numbers. (giving leakers heart attacks is a hobby of mine)
- calvinbhai 8y ago
  Easy way to narrow down who is leaking eh? Always thought that’s the best way to narrow down the leaks. Give variations of info to subgroups, and target the group based on which variant was leaked.
  - greedo 8y ago
    Tom Clancy called it the Canary Trap. Each document had very slight differences, and were tracked to each recipient so leaks could be found.
    - icebraining 8y ago
      Also commonly used in digital watermarks: each copy has an unique variation.
      - erichurkman 8y ago
        See also inserting zero-width characters in text that don't show when you copy and paste: https://medium.com/@umpox/be-careful-what-you-copy-invisibly-inserting-usernames-into-text-with-zero-width-characters-18b4e6f17b66 https://medium.com/@umpox/be-careful-what-you-copy-invisibly...
        jlebrech 8y ago
        zero width is a good idea as engineers are less likely to leak info as they livelihood is affected by them, unless they are already trying to jump ship.
    - jlgaddis 8y ago
      Thanks, that's the first time I've heard the term. Apparently Elon Musk tried this same technique at Tesla but "it backfired hilariously on the brilliant entrepreneur" [0,1]. According to Wikipedia [0]: > After a series of leaks at Tesla Motors in 2008, CEO Elon Musk reportedly sent slightly different versions of an e-mail to each employee in an attempt to reveal potential leakers. The e-mail was disguised as a request to employees to sign a new non-disclosure agreement. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canary_trap#Known_canary_trap_cases https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canary_trap#Known_canary_trap_... [1]: https://web.archive.org/web/20131020092330/http://gawker.com/5164035/tesla-ceo-in-digital-witch-hunt https://web.archive.org/web/20131020092330/http://gawker.com...
draw_down 8y ago
> "These people not only lose their jobs, they can face extreme difficulty finding employment elsewhere" Come on. I understand they want to keep their new iPhones a secret and that's fine, but they really shouldn't be jeopardizing people's employment. Not to mention that they are fine with leaking to the press themselves when it suits their purpose.
cabaalis 8y ago
I am interested in what criminal activity warrants an arrest for leaking company information. Seems like it would be a civil issue?
- guelo 8y ago
  Cupertino is a company town, their police department does what Apple tells them to.
  - tzakrajs 8y ago
    Cupertino doesn't have its own police or fire department. Get real.
    - 24gttghh 8y ago
      However, they have a division of the county Sheriff's department. http://www.cupertino.org/our-city/departments/public-safety/sheriff-s-office http://www.cupertino.org/our-city/departments/public-safety/... I can't comment on their loyalties though...
      - Skunkleton 8y ago
        They are probably just a normal set of people that show up and do their job in a non-conspiratorial sort of way.
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    > Cupertino is a company town Apple might be the largest employer in Cupertino, but that doesn't mean that they own the city…
  - mwfunk 8y ago
    I'm going to go out on a limb here and hypothesize that the local police force doesn't investigate many felonies, regardless of who reports them. Just a theory. :)
  - lsllc 8y ago
fishnchips 8y ago
Now looking forward to the leak the memo about the leak of the memo about the leaks.
foobaw 8y ago
This highly contrasts Netflix, which barely has any leaks, although discloses almost all their information to employees. Is it Apple's company size and culture that make leaks inevitable?
- decacorn 8y ago
  I see your point, but counter it with the infamous Tesla. Tesla, while on the outside appears majestic and glorious, internally is savage, cut-throat, and miserable in some departments. YET, they have very, very minimal internal leaks. I personally find that fascinating.
- ghaff 8y ago
  Maybe. You have a big company where practically everything is a secret and a huge number of bloggers/press outlets that are desperate to publish any information about future Apple products however trivial and unconfirmed.
- ken 8y ago
  It's possible, but I don't think that's the primary factor. Netflix is a software/service company. When they've got something new, they can just ship it right away. Or if they decide to change something at the last minute, they can do that. Apple is a hardware company, and they produce everything at volume (millions of units). Their products, by nature, have long lead times. The design must be finalized well before it ever ships. If I were a tech reporter looking for leaks, I wouldn't place much trust in anything I heard from Netflix, because it'd be too easy for them to change it completely before it ships. Also, if the final product might be released to everyone tomorrow, my incorrect info will still be fresh in everyone's mind. This applies with Apple, too. I hear a lot more rumors/leaks regarding the shape of the next iPhone, than I do rumors/leaks about the on-screen visuals of the next iOS (which could easily change).
  - ghaff 8y ago
    Aside from new shows (which are pretty much announced once they're green-lit), it's a bit hard for me to think of much at Netflix that the tech press is waiting to find out with baited breath. We're rolling out a new recommendation engine that gives even worse results than before? I'm sure there are some things but there are very few tech company announcement details (outside of financial results) that so many people are anxious to learn ahead of time as specs and features of upcoming Apple products.
5_minutes 8y ago
What I find baffling is the difference in leaks pre and post Jobs era. Perhaps management should look at themselves also why people are leaking now and weren’t before.
- snowwrestler 8y ago
  There were plenty of leaks while Jobs was there.
- djrogers 8y ago
  Nothing baffling about it - things leaked a lot when Steve Jobs was around. We all knew about the iPad before it was announced, we all knew they were making a phone, etails would leak about new MacBook Pros, etc. etc. What we do see now that's different than it was 10 years ago are supply chain leaks. Apple has to have such a long ramp to manufacture it's first week worth of iPhones, that it's inevitable that some of the 10s of thousands of people in the supply chain will leak. Often for money, given the culture and pay scales in China...
  - ksec 8y ago
    I think there are difference. The leaks wasn't as detailed in SJ era, he will be pissed if things not go his way. Supply Chain were doing a lot more to cover up. These days Tim takes a much more relax approach, comparatively speaking. You have employees that doesn't even know what you should or should not talk about. ( The Person responsible for NFC ). Steve's era employees used to joke about Information leaking from the higher up management, which was true. Nowadays it seems to be going out everywhere.
- microtherion 8y ago
  > the difference in leaks pre and post Jobs era There were leaks in the Jobs era, and pretty substantial ones too. Here's a notorious case: https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-settles-with-worker-bee/ https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-settles-with-worker-bee/ > why people are leaking now and weren’t before This assumes it's the same people. I would not know one way or the other, but my gut feeling is that newer employees are more prone to leaking, and Apple is a lot bigger than it was under Jobs.
jaclaz 8y ago
>In 2017, Apple caught 29 leakers. 12 of those were arrested. And what happened to the other 17 (the majority)? Were they "just" fired, were they hot iron branded or obliged to wear at all times a scarlet L ?
- larkost 8y ago
  It could be that the leaks were not serious enough for discipline, or were accidental enough that management thought that lesser discipline would be enough that it would not happen again. We really don't have enough information to begin to know.
- jacquesm 8y ago
  > 12 of those were arrested It's pretty weird to see the breach of an NDA in a corporate environment lead to an arrest rather than just a civil lawsuit between the two sides of a contract. Apple seems to be a bit eager here to play the fear card and I find it surprising that law enforcement would do more than take their statement and give them a copy of it. Breach of contract would be the worst that you could accuse a leaker of, which is not typically a criminal affair. Is it normal to have people that break NDA's to be arrested?
  - pcwalton 8y ago
    I would guess that those who are arrested are the ones along the supply chain involved in leaks to countries who are economic rivals to the US (China, in particular). But I wouldn't put it past Apple to try to prosecute anyone and everyone who leaks.
trevyn 8y ago
My favorite take on Apple’s culture of secrecy and how it harms everyone comes from the illustrious Bret Victor: http://worrydream.com/Apple/ http://worrydream.com/Apple/ In short, your personal goals and the goals of the corporation and its executives rarely align as much as you think.
- kec 8y ago
  I don't really understand what you're trying to get at. That just sounds like sour grapes from someone who didn't totally grok that what you do on company time belongs to the company.
  - wpietri 8y ago
    The notion that "what you do on company time belongs to the company" is one possible relationship between labor and capital, but far from the only one. And even that phrasing is a little misleading, because executives often get much more latitude here; the principle in practice seems to be less about serving the collective interest of all stakeholders (that is, the company) as serving the power structure's current occupants. Many companies are pretty flexible about what you talk about as long as giving out the information doesn't cause immediate harm. It's not unreasonable for people at much stricter companies to complain that their company is being unnecessarily strict in ways that are detrimental to the employees.
    - ghaff 8y ago
      I learned recently of the formal approvals needed at $LARGE_TECH_COMPANY that I don't think of (as an outsider) as being especially super-secretive to give an external presentation. I was probably more surprised than I should have been. But it did shock me a bit compared to where I am--which is admittedly pretty far on the open side of the spectrum.
  - risotto_groupon 8y ago
    I did drugs on company time and that excuse didn't work.
Fice 8y ago
There is also a possibility, that at least some of the "leaks" are in reality marketing ploys orchestrated by the company.
- draw_down 8y ago
  Um, they intentionally “leak” to reporters sometimes when they want to set the record straight without going on the record. But that is always more about setting expectations rather than a “marketing ploy”. For example if a product will miss its ship date, or if inaccurate rumors are really swirling and refuse to die down. Other than that, there is no 12-dimensional chess inside job conspiracy stuff happening.
- Apocryphon 8y ago
  It really seems like a company with the resources and obsessiveness of Apple would have counterintelligence teams to manipulate public perception with false leaks.
mattsfrey 8y ago
The most disconcerting thing about this is how effective their security measures appear to be. One has to imagine how pervasive their surveillance is to catch this many leakers.
cromwellian 8y ago
I think Apple obsesses too much about secrecy and attributes too much of it to its success. Except for the iPhone launch, almost nothing they've launched hasn't been leaked ahead of time, and yet, it is still the most valuable company in the world and their sales are through the roof. It seems they are still pining for that "shock-and-awe" of Steve Jobs original 2007 iPhone introduction, but don't realize that's no why people buy Apple products these days. Think of the negative repercussions of this. Creating a hermit kingdom, with chilling effects where people worry about collaboration with the outside world. It has certainly had some effect on the ability to recruit AI researchers.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  > It has certainly had some effect on the ability to recruit AI researchers. Well, Apple had to backtrack there and allow its researchers to publish because otherwise nobody would work there.
- stouset 8y ago
  There's a huge advantage in your competitors not knowing what your focus is, particularly if you're working on something out of left fields. The more you can hide from them, the more of a head start you can have over them.
  - cromwellian 8y ago
    Does Apple have a head start on most things they do? Most observers acknowledge they aren't usually the first to do something, rather, they're good at execution and polish. They were beaten to market on pretty much everything: watches, bezelless displays with notch (e.g. Essential Phone), smart/speakers (Amazon, Google, Sonos), Streaming/TV (Roku, Amazon, Chromecast), etc. Really, I think the world would be better if they published more openly and were more open, and I don't think it would really hurt their ability to outsell their competitors at all. Let's say they're working on AR glasses (which they probably are) and Samsung catches wind of this and rushes to market with Samsung AR glasses. How many Apple fans actually think this will make a difference to people in the Apple ecosystem buying Apple AR glasses? At this point I think the secrecy does more harm than good.
bondolo 8y ago
Martin Minow liked to tell the story of the time he got a call from Steve Jobs right after Steve's return to Apple. Martin was working on Copeland which hadn't been cancelled yet. Steve called out the blue one afternoon and said "Hi Martin, this is Steve." Martin had worked with Steve in his early days at Apple before Steve's departure. "Hi Steve." "Look, we know you've been sending emails to Henry Norr who works at MacWeek. We can't read them because they are encrypted, but you better have an explanation of why you are talking to journalists." "He is in my running group. That's it." "That's it?" "Yep, that's it." "OK, make sure it stays that way." and Steve hung up. Martin was flustered by this call so got up and left his office. In the hallway were his manager and a couple security goons just standing around. "Hey." "Hey." and he went off to the restroom. When he came back the goons were gone. It never came up again. I miss Martin. edit: [Spellcheck corrected "Minow" to "Minnow" and I failed to notice. You should find plenty more hits on "Martin Minow"]
- bllguo 8y ago
  hmm, the first result in google for "martin minnow apple" that contains all those keywords is your comment
  - justherefortart 8y ago
    Things were different in the 1990s, not everything was on the internet.
  - newman8r 8y ago
    Yeah I can't find anything either, good fact-checking. Hopefully just a misspelled name.
    - bondolo 8y ago
      Spellcheck had indeed "corrected" the spelling of his last name from "Minow" to "Minnow". Now fixed.
      - bllguo 8y ago
rm_-rf_slash 8y ago
I worked at Apple in the past. I pride myself on having never told a soul what I really did there, as anyone who does know was informed through proper channels. Perhaps if I had worked at some other company and saw highly unethical/illegal shit going on, I might consider whistleblowing, but I would never leak for the sake of leaking, even if it would cause a lot of hype or news commentary. It just seems sociopathic to do so. Same goes for this memo. And if the leaker is reading this comment right now, then I ask, rhetorically, if you don’t feel comfortable with your employer’s preference for secrecy, then why are you working there?
bhuga 8y ago
> Leakers do not simply lose their jobs at Apple. In some cases, they face jail time and massive fines for network intrusion and theft of trade secrets both classified as federal crimes. In 2017, Apple caught 29 leakers. 12 of those were arrested. This is an email they sent to employees? It sure doesn't sound fun to work there.
- brianpan 8y ago
  You can also go to prison for insider trading. Is this also too onerous for you? What reason is there for leaking information about the company you are currently working for?
  - pcwalton 8y ago
    I think the tone is heavy-handed. Leaking can happen accidentally--for example, by leaving an iPhone in a bar--and sending the message that this could result in criminal prosecution doesn't seem good for morale. Of course, every employee at Apple knows the culture of the company, so it's not like it should be any surprise.
    - IBM 8y ago
      The guy who left the iPhone 4 at a bar was never fired because it was an accident. In fact he stayed at Apple until 2017 [1]. [1] https://www.linkedin.com/in/graypowell/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/graypowell/
    - dpkonofa 8y ago
      >Of course, every employee at Apple knows the culture of the company, so it's not like it should be any surprise. I used to work at Apple (both at the retail stores and briefly in Cupertino) and, out of all the jobs I've had, it's still my favorite corporate culture. It's the only company where I felt like I wasn't just a number. It wasn't uncommon for opportunities to open up for people all throughout the company and, as long as you weren't stealing or doing something else (like leaking info) that could harm the company, there seemed to be a mutual respect between upper management and even low-level employees.
ninjakeyboard 8y ago
Yo dawg! I heard you liked leak memos, so I put a leak memo out on your leak memo.
forapurpose 8y ago
> The crackdown is part of broader and long-running attempts by Silicon Valley technology companies to track and limit what information their employees share publicly The contrast between the aggressive privacy of companies (and government) and the non-existent privacy of individuals is shocking. Apple claims to have people arrested for violating its privacy; practically, I have no power - they can take almost whatever they want and do whatever they want with it, and there's nothing I can do. In fact, the complete lack of privacy by individuals may the means by which companies find who released the information. Finally, these moves are counter to an open society. In an open society, it's the powerful people and public institutions who need to be transparent - they are the threats to democracy and liberty - not the everyday private citizens.
- justherefortart 8y ago
  We need to elect people that write laws that will protect the public. Although, seeing how well that's worked out for labor, I'm not holding my breath.
- dpkonofa 8y ago
  I don't understand the article's assertion in the context of this being something unique or new to Silicon Valley. Companies have always tried to keep trade secrets behind closed doors and limit what employees share about them. They wouldn't be "secrets" if they weren't limited to select individuals and had information that was ok to disclose publicly. The idea that this is some new Orwellian culture shift is so stupid...
  - forapurpose 8y ago
    I was going to address this comment until I read the last two words, which just shut down intelligent discussion.
    - dpkonofa 8y ago
      Why? Intelligent people can't use the words "so stupid"?
wannabedevelopr 8y ago
The irony...
Mrtierne 8y ago
You gotta love when real headlines are indistinguishable from The Onion
walrus01 8y ago
I wonder how many ex-intelligence-agency counterintelligence people Apply employs. Probably at least a few. Question for those who've gone through CI training: Do Apple leaks all fit into one of the MICE categories? I don't think there is any new motivation. (Money, Ideology, Conscience, Ego) Would be very interested to see what programs they have developed to intentionally generate false but plausible information internally, get it into the hands of specific people or workgroups, and see if/where/how/when it leaks. Usually done for the purpose of identifying specific leakers or compartments that are leaking.
- trisimix 8y ago
  As of a CI would respond haha
  - walrus01 8y ago
    Given the scale/size/financial scope of Apple I would be entirely unsurprised if they had an entire TSCM group recruited from ex-three-letter-agency people and a group of HUMINT experts functionally equivalent to CI, but with a different name.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- ksec 8y ago
  They do, As it was published by Bloomberg in a previous article on leaks. Some ex-CIA, FBI etc works there.
rajacombinator 8y ago
Can’t think of many relevant product leaks from Apple ... maybe stuff about their chip and display manufacturing? Their consumer products are pretty straightforward and all the leaks come from China anyway.
userbinator 8y ago
Fortunately companies cannot yet control their employees completely, and so leaks will keep happening. This may be rather controversial, but I think that's a good thing. It pleases me to see people who do not completely toe the line getting themselves into companies for the purpose of eventually leaking something, effectively hindering the rise of total corporate control. Especially with a company so secretive and forceful in its mission of locking out devices against their owners (and attackers, ostensibly), it's good to see some "retaliation". To all the leakers: we need people like you, who are not afraid of the consequences of doing what you think is right. Many thanks to those who leaked the schematics and service manuals for various products (including Apple's), the HDCP master key, the AACS key, the SD card specs, the memory stick specs, everything on SciHub, and the list goes on... countless people would not have gained the knowledge and skills they have without your neighbourly efforts. Some related commentary: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11008717 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11008717 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16346174 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16346174 Edit: interesting to see the points on this bounce up and down. It seems I've struck a nerve.
readhn 8y ago
How much does a major leak of apple inside information cost? $50,000 $100,000 $200,000 more? I am assuming they dont leak the information for free. And if they do it for monetary reasons - the amount has to be large enough to justify risking your job (freakonomics 101). If they do it just for their ego boost (oh i got approached by so and so i must be very important) - then they are dumber than i thought.
arnonejoe 8y ago
I wonder how the leakers mentioned in the memo were caught?

555 points by jsmthrowaway 8y ago

IBM 8y ago

Somewhat ironic that this memo got leaked but I think in this case it actually serves their purpose for it to be read by everyone (including potential employees). I think this part is key and is something I've always wondered about: >While it may seem flattering to be approached, it’s important to remember that you’re getting played. The success of these outsiders is measured by obtaining Apple’s secrets from you and making them public. A scoop about an unreleased Apple product can generate massive traffic for a publication and financially benefit the blogger or reporter who broke it. But the Apple employee who leaks has everything to lose. I completely understand what's in it for the reporter, but I've never understood what the employee gets out of it. I've been reading Mark Gurman's scoops about Apple for years so I'm definitely biased in wanting that to continue. It just seems like there's tons of upside for the reporter and only downside for the leaker. Also I wonder what goes through a reporter's head when one of their sources get fired because they leaked to them. I'd feel extremely guilty if someone was fired or prosecuted because of me. Not sure how they do it.

loceng 8y ago
And downside for the organization -- first to market is important, and rewarding thieves over the innovators - giving thieves resources over the innovators, is not good overall for society.
- wuliwong 8y ago
  I think IMB's question was just limited to understanding the employee's motivations, I don't think they were implying there are no other affected parties.
  - loceng 8y ago
    Didn't mean to imply that if I did, essentially just wanted to add to their comment.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
chc 8y ago
Maybe they just want people to know the thing they're leaking. I'm sure there are people who find corporate secrecy policies annoying (somebody finds basically every corporate policy annoying) and would view a chance to flout them as an upside in itself.
melvinmt 8y ago
Who says the employee is not being rewarded?
- IBM 8y ago
  Maybe they are? But I think that would magnify the downside of leaking by 10x for limited upside? Note I'm talking about people who work in Cupertino. It makes complete sense for someone working at a supplier in Asia to leak for money, doesn't really make much sense for a software engineer.
  - ghaff 8y ago
    Having worked with the tech press a lot, having written in pubs myself, and knowing quite a few reporters well, I think I can confidently say that payments for inside information are pretty rare. In a previous job, I knew lots of information about many companies under NDA and never had a whiff of this sort of thing.
yodon 8y ago
>I’ve never understood what the employee gets out of it The intelligence services have done a great deal of research into the persona of the press leaker/Wikileaks leaker (as distinct from the more traditional espionage leaker). A common trait is for the press leaker to be either highly over-qualified for their job or believe themselves to be over-qualified for their job. The belief coming out of that research is a sense of being under appreciated and a deep need to be recognized by someone (even themselves) for something they’ve done is the primary motivation for this class of leaker. The “leaking good and important things” blanket that the leaks are wrapped in then becomes a secondary factor that is used by the leaker to justify their actions to themselves in their quest for the recognition they need. I doubt if corporate press leakers have been studied as heavily as intelligence sector leakers, but the chances are good there are some similar motivations at play.
- gameswithgo 8y ago
  >The “leaking good and important things” blanket that the leaks are wrapped in then becomes a secondary factor that is used by the leaker to justify Sounds like how a sociopath would interpret the motivations of a good person.
  - JumpCrisscross 8y ago
    > the motivations of a good person Edward Snowden and someone who leaks an upcoming iPhone's rounded edges are not in the same category.
- DINKDINK 8y ago
  >research into the persona of the press leaker Source?
  - yodon 8y ago
    I’ve been looking for a source to cite on this and my google-fu isn’t pulling it up. Most of the multiple discussions I’ve read on this research were probably around 18 months ago. I’m pretty sure some of the work has been discussed on HN before so hopefully someone else will be able to pull up a link.
praneshp 8y ago
Sometimes the leaker might think they have an upside. I worked (generally, in the same floor/area) with one such person[0]. The actual emails are available for the public, the leaker wanted some coverage for the new startup she was going to move to. [0]: https://www.mercurynews.com/2015/08/18/ex-yahoo-employee-admits-leaking-information-to-author-of-marissa-mayer-book/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2015/08/18/ex-yahoo-employee-adm...
- bhhaskin 8y ago
  Man that site is bad. First thing on mobile is a full ad.
  - praneshp 8y ago
    I chose it after I tried to google for a better article. The other ones are paywalled[0] or scribd[1] [0]: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-08/yahoo-sues-ex-staffer-over-claims-she-shared-secrets-with-writer https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-08/yahoo-sue... [1]: https://www.scribd.com/document/275069641/Yahoo-vs-Cecile-Lal-Stipulation-Injunction https://www.scribd.com/document/275069641/Yahoo-vs-Cecile-La...
ghaff 8y ago
There are a number of reasons even if there's no formal quid pro quo such as money under the table or even a nice meal. Reporters cultivate relationships with sources and sharing some inside information can come to be seen as just helping out a friend with some tidbit that doesn't really hurt anything. Furthermore, there can be an ego thing around sharing things you know that other people don't.
koolba 8y ago
> I completely understand what's in it for the reporter, but I've never understood what the employee gets out of it. I've been reading Mark Gurman's scoops about Apple for years so I'm definitely biased in wanting that to continue. It just seems like there's tons of upside for the reporter and only downside for the leaker. There's four reasons people leak information: 1. Out of moral responsibility to report unsafe or illegal activity. 2. To cause direct harm to the root organization because they feel slighted by some action in the past. 3. The "leak" is officially sanctioned as part of a submarine. 4. Ego. Numbers 3 and 4 are the biggies.
- matt_wulfeck 8y ago
  I think it’s a lot more complicated than your oversimplification. For example, where does a quid-pro-quo relationship fit into your categories? Saying leaked out of “ego” is equivalent to saying it was leaked “because”. We know it was something internal to the leaker’s psyche, but research should help us understand what led up to that point and how it could have been avoided. For example, would you say a gossiper gossips because of “ego”?
  - greedo 8y ago
    A gossiper gossips to raise their status; having inside information (and revealing it) shows that they are more knowledgable than the person they gossip to.
- smudgymcscmudge 8y ago
  Somewhere on there should be personal vendettas. More than once I’ve seen screenshots of internal conversations on Business Insider that were clearly motivated by a desire to get that person fired.
  - koolba 8y ago
    I'd consider that part of #2.
  - cavanasm 8y ago
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
Waterluvian 8y ago
Maybe I'm simple but I'm sometimes at tradeshows as an engineering authority. Its hard at times not to say too much, because it's just kind of natural. You have questions and I want to help. I want to share knowledge. I can absolutely appreciate why I can't tell people everything they want to know but it's not my natural state to decline to do so. An example from this week. Someone was asking about the usual questions. Stuff on our website that I can comfortably answer. Then they casually led the conversation to the tech side in appreciation that I'm an engineer doing a great job. He eventually asked, "what feature in your latest release are you the most proud of?" I badly want to tell you because it's fucking cool stuff. But I won't because you're an investor for our competition.
- joezydeco 8y ago
  You'll learn more than you ever expected to know by hanging out at hotel bars during tradeshows. Another great source is the airplane ride to the show. I've heard of at least one tech columnist that would watch people working on laptop presentations on the flights and pick up all kinds of scoops.
  - AmericanChopper 8y ago
    As an ex-smoker, I’ve heard some highly sensitive stuff in publicly accessible smoking areas.
- lotsofpulp 8y ago
  People like to talk about themselves, but they need to remember that the person they're conversing with might use it against them. In my opinion, it's a very important trait to learn, both how to prevent yourself from giving out information and how to get it out of someone. Pay attention to someone if they keep stuttering or "forgetting key" parts of the statement they're making, getting others to fill in the blanks is one of the easiest ways since our minds just want to do that. So you intentionally pretend to have difficulty remembering what you're saying and let the other person tell you.
- toyg 8y ago
  Classic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlwwVuSUUfc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlwwVuSUUfc
greedo 8y ago
People leak/gossip/whistleblow for a variety of reasons: 1. Immediate Financial - They either have a direct quid-pro-quo with the leak recipient, or stand to benefit directly from the leak. 2. Disagreement with the direction/decision-making - They want Apple to do something different, and internal (legitimate) attempts to influence this decision have failed; usually because the leaker doesn't have the political capital. 3. Vanity/Ego - More of a contributing factor to #2, but they want a feeling of power that comes from leaking. 4. Trolling - A subset of #3 really. Some people just want to watch the world burn. 5. Revenge - Feeling screwed out of a promotion, or otherwise neglected? Leak! 6. Low self-esteem - If you're approached by a reporter or blogger, having something of value is a way to boost yourself.
- alexandercrohde 8y ago
  Can we not group whistleblowing, a usually-legal heroic action of reporting immoral/illegal behavior (to the extent that you can be awarded millions of dollars by the government for whistelblowing) with leaking trivial product details?
  - greedo 8y ago
    If you think the motives of whistleblowers are as pure as the driven snow, we'll just have to agree to disagree. #2 covers their actions, but not all whistleblowers are related to Mother Teresa.
    - LoSboccacc 8y ago
      > not all whistleblowers are related to Mother Teresa so some of them are good?
      - dang 8y ago
        Please don't do this here.
    - alexandercrohde 8y ago
      You're making a strawman argument. I'm not arguing "all whistleblowers are good people," I'm citing the definition of whisteblowing is "a person who informs on a person or organization engaged in an illicit activity." Reporting a CEO embezzling is whistleblowing. Announcing apple is working on a new gizmo is not. Don't conflate them.
ghostbrainalpha 8y ago
Reporters trying to get leaks can also be extremely charming, flirtatious, and often use alcohol to get people to open up. They can also be extremely manipulative. Like pretending they know something already, and so its ok to comment on it, OR they say they are going to print with something that is wrong and damaging for the company. For example the next iPhone only has 6 GB of storage. You can either not confirm that, or you correct them, and say "I think you mean 600 GB", at which point you just leaked a major new feature.
- walshemj 8y ago
  Yeh why do you think TLA's have used journalistic cover in the past its a similar sort of job when it comes down to it.
debt 8y ago
On the contrary, we all are carrying around GPS tracking devices in our pockets that almost every modern worker in most contexts needs to have. So if Apple or Facebook wants leaks to stop happening they need to reverse course and stop the unofficial mandate to connect the world or get a device into every person’s hands. These things are becoming global phenomenon pervasive in nearly everyone’s lives and yet they demand a near total lack of transparency of how they operate. Seems hypocritical and unfair at best and maybe unethical or immoral at worst. Massive organizations and businesses, people and families rely on these things so they at least should have some insight into their operation.
cafard 8y ago
Not all leaks are unauthorized. Organizations often want to put information or misinformation out without taking responsibility for it. The media has paper and airtime to fill, and may or may not be picky about its sources. It is not unusual for an organization to do authorized leaks and try to chase down unauthorized leakers. I'm not sure how many reporters have done jail time to protect their sources, but I'm sure that more than a few have been threatened with it.
gaius 8y ago
I've never understood what the employee gets out of it Revenge against a real or imaginary slight, by senior managers, or even their own line manager.
carterehsmith 8y ago
> but I've never understood what the employee gets out of it They may get money? Some of these companies have valuation in hundreds of billions, and a small bit of news can nudge that +/- 0.5-2% or more which could be a couple billions dollars. If you own just 0.1% of the stock, that would be several $m opportunity . So, paying your informer, say, $100K or something, sounds reasonable, if you can execute it properly, even accounting for fake informers.
trisimix 8y ago
I assume theyd be sad they lost a source of income. Some people are good at surpressing their conscience.
pfarnsworth 8y ago
Back during the dot com boom, I worked at a small, but public company. Wall Street analysts (or people that worked for them) would randomly call people up on their office phones (back during the days when people had their own office phone number) and try to befriend people. If they got a hook, over the course of a few phone calls, they would totally stroke their egos, and then ask them for information about the company. For employees it was like they were doing favors for their friend, and the things they were asking were generally pretty small, but could increase over time. We were warned about this happening since it happened before, so I'm sure similar techniques that worked 20 years ago still work today. It's just a form of social engineering.
fjsolwmv 8y ago
That's funny wording because Steve Jobs management philosophy was all about "playing" his employees and partners, to extract world-changing inventions for minimal compensation.
- dpkonofa 8y ago
  Source?
vbezhenar 8y ago
> I've never understood what the employee gets out of it Bucks?
daveheq 8y ago
The employee may get paid by the reporting agency, or have friends in journalism who are also enthusiasts.

sneak 8y ago

This article sounds like it was written by Apple. “everything to lose”? Really?

kabdib 8y ago
"You'll nevah woik in dis bidness again..." Frankly, when you tell a room full of people about something it's practically guaranteed to leak. The exceptions seem to be (a) secrets nobody cares about ("We're rewriting our ductwork design software!") and things that involve government secrets (and that doesn't always work). I had a couple of housemates who were in the US submarine service. They never talked about what they did, even 20 years retired, and were very upset when the book Blind Man's Bluff was published.
- jsgo 8y ago
  Whereas I was at university with a guy who was previously in the Navy and was stationed on a large sub (name escapes me) and he claimed when they were at port and bored, they'd look into hotel windows where the blinds were left open with the periscope. Hopefully for Apple's sake, he never went to work for them.
jsnell 8y ago
Everything after the bolded "Here’s the memo:" is indeed written by Apple. That's kind of the nature of quoting a memo...
- MajorSauce 8y ago
  TBF, they should have worked the formatting so that it is easier to find for someone looking the said memo without having to scan through the whole article.
  - ghaff 8y ago
    And the wording of the memo--quoting people and so forth--reads more like a news story than it does an internal memo. I had to go back through it to realize that the entire bottom section is a memo because memos are typically written in a single person's voice.

sergiotapia 8y ago

Can they not tweak specific word variations to track down where the leak is coming from? You can narrow it down to which department the leak is coming from at least.

simlevesque 8y ago
That's assuming the leaker is repeating what (s)he heard/read verbatim instead of paraphrasing.
megaman22 8y ago
Ah, the good old Canary Trap https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canary_trap https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canary_trap
tajen 8y ago
Is there a name for that? Steganography? Watermarking? Both don’t specifically describe the idea of swapping words or homographs (rn = m) to embed the name of the person who received a copy of a document to bust the leaker.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
Barrin92 8y ago
Honestly, that requires a pretty gullible leaker. If the person leaking information cross-checks what information coworkers got and doesn't leak identifiable documents (others mentioned unique watermarks) it's probably going to be hard to track them down

Mononokay 8y ago

> Josh Shaffer, whose team’s work was part of the iOS 11 leak last fall. Is leaking the reason it was rushed out the door? If not, I can't imagine why he's upset about it.

deft 8y ago
Yeah, how does it affect him at all? He worked on a great product and the leak didn't make it worse. Most likely just Apple trying to add a personal element to dissuade leakers, by also accusing them of hurting friends/colleagues.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  > Apple trying to add a personal element to dissuade leakers, by also accusing them of hurting friends/colleagues. Many at Apple enjoy the reveal of what they've been working on, so they can go and tell other people about it. It kind of takes the fun out if it leaks early.
- djcapelis 8y ago
  For a moment, imagine the situation: You show up to work each day. You've been working a lot lately, but you're really excited about the thing you're working on. You're looking forward to when it's ready and ships. But it's not time yet. It's not ready. You want the world to see it when you're ready to really show them something. Not just the idea of a thing, but the actual thing. When they can see it, touch it, understand it and breathe it. When they can really appreciate what you've been doing. You've been working on this thing for awhile. You know there's still a long slog ahead. But you think—hey, one day soon, we'll get to talk about this thing. Then one morning, you get into the office and you see some blog is talking about your project. They have a bunch of the details wrong, but it's definitely the project you're working on. And they're saying it's coming out in the next update. Your work never has the chance to speak for itself. Someone decided to speak for your work instead. Just so they could feel important. It wasn't even their work to speak for. It was yours, and you and others had already been making decisions on how you wanted to talk about it, what things you wanted to show and where and how you wanted the work to speak for itself. Wouldn't you be annoyed about it? Wouldn't you be disappointed that someone leaked your work when later when you do finally announce it people don't let your work speak for itself, but just compare your work to whatever their minds imagined, made up and idealized about what you might be working on, doing or building?

Jyaif 8y ago

Weird, a friend at Apple received the same email, but with different numbers. (giving leakers heart attacks is a hobby of mine)

calvinbhai 8y ago
Easy way to narrow down who is leaking eh? Always thought that’s the best way to narrow down the leaks. Give variations of info to subgroups, and target the group based on which variant was leaked.
- greedo 8y ago
  Tom Clancy called it the Canary Trap. Each document had very slight differences, and were tracked to each recipient so leaks could be found.
  - icebraining 8y ago
    Also commonly used in digital watermarks: each copy has an unique variation.
    - erichurkman 8y ago
      See also inserting zero-width characters in text that don't show when you copy and paste: https://medium.com/@umpox/be-careful-what-you-copy-invisibly-inserting-usernames-into-text-with-zero-width-characters-18b4e6f17b66 https://medium.com/@umpox/be-careful-what-you-copy-invisibly...
      - jlebrech 8y ago
        zero width is a good idea as engineers are less likely to leak info as they livelihood is affected by them, unless they are already trying to jump ship.
  - jlgaddis 8y ago
    Thanks, that's the first time I've heard the term. Apparently Elon Musk tried this same technique at Tesla but "it backfired hilariously on the brilliant entrepreneur" [0,1]. According to Wikipedia [0]: > After a series of leaks at Tesla Motors in 2008, CEO Elon Musk reportedly sent slightly different versions of an e-mail to each employee in an attempt to reveal potential leakers. The e-mail was disguised as a request to employees to sign a new non-disclosure agreement. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canary_trap#Known_canary_trap_cases https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canary_trap#Known_canary_trap_... [1]: https://web.archive.org/web/20131020092330/http://gawker.com/5164035/tesla-ceo-in-digital-witch-hunt https://web.archive.org/web/20131020092330/http://gawker.com...

draw_down 8y ago

> "These people not only lose their jobs, they can face extreme difficulty finding employment elsewhere" Come on. I understand they want to keep their new iPhones a secret and that's fine, but they really shouldn't be jeopardizing people's employment. Not to mention that they are fine with leaking to the press themselves when it suits their purpose.

cabaalis 8y ago

I am interested in what criminal activity warrants an arrest for leaking company information. Seems like it would be a civil issue?

guelo 8y ago
Cupertino is a company town, their police department does what Apple tells them to.
- tzakrajs 8y ago
  Cupertino doesn't have its own police or fire department. Get real.
  - 24gttghh 8y ago
    However, they have a division of the county Sheriff's department. http://www.cupertino.org/our-city/departments/public-safety/sheriff-s-office http://www.cupertino.org/our-city/departments/public-safety/... I can't comment on their loyalties though...
    - Skunkleton 8y ago
      They are probably just a normal set of people that show up and do their job in a non-conspiratorial sort of way.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  > Cupertino is a company town Apple might be the largest employer in Cupertino, but that doesn't mean that they own the city…
- mwfunk 8y ago
  I'm going to go out on a limb here and hypothesize that the local police force doesn't investigate many felonies, regardless of who reports them. Just a theory. :)
- lsllc 8y ago

fishnchips 8y ago

Now looking forward to the leak the memo about the leak of the memo about the leaks.

foobaw 8y ago

This highly contrasts Netflix, which barely has any leaks, although discloses almost all their information to employees. Is it Apple's company size and culture that make leaks inevitable?

decacorn 8y ago
I see your point, but counter it with the infamous Tesla. Tesla, while on the outside appears majestic and glorious, internally is savage, cut-throat, and miserable in some departments. YET, they have very, very minimal internal leaks. I personally find that fascinating.
ghaff 8y ago
Maybe. You have a big company where practically everything is a secret and a huge number of bloggers/press outlets that are desperate to publish any information about future Apple products however trivial and unconfirmed.
ken 8y ago
It's possible, but I don't think that's the primary factor. Netflix is a software/service company. When they've got something new, they can just ship it right away. Or if they decide to change something at the last minute, they can do that. Apple is a hardware company, and they produce everything at volume (millions of units). Their products, by nature, have long lead times. The design must be finalized well before it ever ships. If I were a tech reporter looking for leaks, I wouldn't place much trust in anything I heard from Netflix, because it'd be too easy for them to change it completely before it ships. Also, if the final product might be released to everyone tomorrow, my incorrect info will still be fresh in everyone's mind. This applies with Apple, too. I hear a lot more rumors/leaks regarding the shape of the next iPhone, than I do rumors/leaks about the on-screen visuals of the next iOS (which could easily change).
- ghaff 8y ago
  Aside from new shows (which are pretty much announced once they're green-lit), it's a bit hard for me to think of much at Netflix that the tech press is waiting to find out with baited breath. We're rolling out a new recommendation engine that gives even worse results than before? I'm sure there are some things but there are very few tech company announcement details (outside of financial results) that so many people are anxious to learn ahead of time as specs and features of upcoming Apple products.

5_minutes 8y ago

What I find baffling is the difference in leaks pre and post Jobs era. Perhaps management should look at themselves also why people are leaking now and weren’t before.

snowwrestler 8y ago
There were plenty of leaks while Jobs was there.
djrogers 8y ago
Nothing baffling about it - things leaked a lot when Steve Jobs was around. We all knew about the iPad before it was announced, we all knew they were making a phone, etails would leak about new MacBook Pros, etc. etc. What we do see now that's different than it was 10 years ago are supply chain leaks. Apple has to have such a long ramp to manufacture it's first week worth of iPhones, that it's inevitable that some of the 10s of thousands of people in the supply chain will leak. Often for money, given the culture and pay scales in China...
- ksec 8y ago
  I think there are difference. The leaks wasn't as detailed in SJ era, he will be pissed if things not go his way. Supply Chain were doing a lot more to cover up. These days Tim takes a much more relax approach, comparatively speaking. You have employees that doesn't even know what you should or should not talk about. ( The Person responsible for NFC ). Steve's era employees used to joke about Information leaking from the higher up management, which was true. Nowadays it seems to be going out everywhere.
microtherion 8y ago
> the difference in leaks pre and post Jobs era There were leaks in the Jobs era, and pretty substantial ones too. Here's a notorious case: https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-settles-with-worker-bee/ https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-settles-with-worker-bee/ > why people are leaking now and weren’t before This assumes it's the same people. I would not know one way or the other, but my gut feeling is that newer employees are more prone to leaking, and Apple is a lot bigger than it was under Jobs.

jaclaz 8y ago

>In 2017, Apple caught 29 leakers. 12 of those were arrested. And what happened to the other 17 (the majority)? Were they "just" fired, were they hot iron branded or obliged to wear at all times a scarlet L ?

larkost 8y ago
It could be that the leaks were not serious enough for discipline, or were accidental enough that management thought that lesser discipline would be enough that it would not happen again. We really don't have enough information to begin to know.
jacquesm 8y ago
> 12 of those were arrested It's pretty weird to see the breach of an NDA in a corporate environment lead to an arrest rather than just a civil lawsuit between the two sides of a contract. Apple seems to be a bit eager here to play the fear card and I find it surprising that law enforcement would do more than take their statement and give them a copy of it. Breach of contract would be the worst that you could accuse a leaker of, which is not typically a criminal affair. Is it normal to have people that break NDA's to be arrested?
- pcwalton 8y ago
  I would guess that those who are arrested are the ones along the supply chain involved in leaks to countries who are economic rivals to the US (China, in particular). But I wouldn't put it past Apple to try to prosecute anyone and everyone who leaks.

trevyn 8y ago

My favorite take on Apple’s culture of secrecy and how it harms everyone comes from the illustrious Bret Victor: http://worrydream.com/Apple/ http://worrydream.com/Apple/ In short, your personal goals and the goals of the corporation and its executives rarely align as much as you think.

kec 8y ago
I don't really understand what you're trying to get at. That just sounds like sour grapes from someone who didn't totally grok that what you do on company time belongs to the company.
- wpietri 8y ago
  The notion that "what you do on company time belongs to the company" is one possible relationship between labor and capital, but far from the only one. And even that phrasing is a little misleading, because executives often get much more latitude here; the principle in practice seems to be less about serving the collective interest of all stakeholders (that is, the company) as serving the power structure's current occupants. Many companies are pretty flexible about what you talk about as long as giving out the information doesn't cause immediate harm. It's not unreasonable for people at much stricter companies to complain that their company is being unnecessarily strict in ways that are detrimental to the employees.
  - ghaff 8y ago
    I learned recently of the formal approvals needed at $LARGE_TECH_COMPANY that I don't think of (as an outsider) as being especially super-secretive to give an external presentation. I was probably more surprised than I should have been. But it did shock me a bit compared to where I am--which is admittedly pretty far on the open side of the spectrum.
- risotto_groupon 8y ago
  I did drugs on company time and that excuse didn't work.

Fice 8y ago

There is also a possibility, that at least some of the "leaks" are in reality marketing ploys orchestrated by the company.

draw_down 8y ago
Um, they intentionally “leak” to reporters sometimes when they want to set the record straight without going on the record. But that is always more about setting expectations rather than a “marketing ploy”. For example if a product will miss its ship date, or if inaccurate rumors are really swirling and refuse to die down. Other than that, there is no 12-dimensional chess inside job conspiracy stuff happening.
Apocryphon 8y ago
It really seems like a company with the resources and obsessiveness of Apple would have counterintelligence teams to manipulate public perception with false leaks.

mattsfrey 8y ago

The most disconcerting thing about this is how effective their security measures appear to be. One has to imagine how pervasive their surveillance is to catch this many leakers.

cromwellian 8y ago

I think Apple obsesses too much about secrecy and attributes too much of it to its success. Except for the iPhone launch, almost nothing they've launched hasn't been leaked ahead of time, and yet, it is still the most valuable company in the world and their sales are through the roof. It seems they are still pining for that "shock-and-awe" of Steve Jobs original 2007 iPhone introduction, but don't realize that's no why people buy Apple products these days. Think of the negative repercussions of this. Creating a hermit kingdom, with chilling effects where people worry about collaboration with the outside world. It has certainly had some effect on the ability to recruit AI researchers.

saagarjha 8y ago
> It has certainly had some effect on the ability to recruit AI researchers. Well, Apple had to backtrack there and allow its researchers to publish because otherwise nobody would work there.
stouset 8y ago
There's a huge advantage in your competitors not knowing what your focus is, particularly if you're working on something out of left fields. The more you can hide from them, the more of a head start you can have over them.
- cromwellian 8y ago
  Does Apple have a head start on most things they do? Most observers acknowledge they aren't usually the first to do something, rather, they're good at execution and polish. They were beaten to market on pretty much everything: watches, bezelless displays with notch (e.g. Essential Phone), smart/speakers (Amazon, Google, Sonos), Streaming/TV (Roku, Amazon, Chromecast), etc. Really, I think the world would be better if they published more openly and were more open, and I don't think it would really hurt their ability to outsell their competitors at all. Let's say they're working on AR glasses (which they probably are) and Samsung catches wind of this and rushes to market with Samsung AR glasses. How many Apple fans actually think this will make a difference to people in the Apple ecosystem buying Apple AR glasses? At this point I think the secrecy does more harm than good.

bondolo 8y ago

Martin Minow liked to tell the story of the time he got a call from Steve Jobs right after Steve's return to Apple. Martin was working on Copeland which hadn't been cancelled yet. Steve called out the blue one afternoon and said "Hi Martin, this is Steve." Martin had worked with Steve in his early days at Apple before Steve's departure. "Hi Steve." "Look, we know you've been sending emails to Henry Norr who works at MacWeek. We can't read them because they are encrypted, but you better have an explanation of why you are talking to journalists." "He is in my running group. That's it." "That's it?" "Yep, that's it." "OK, make sure it stays that way." and Steve hung up. Martin was flustered by this call so got up and left his office. In the hallway were his manager and a couple security goons just standing around. "Hey." "Hey." and he went off to the restroom. When he came back the goons were gone. It never came up again. I miss Martin. edit: [Spellcheck corrected "Minow" to "Minnow" and I failed to notice. You should find plenty more hits on "Martin Minow"]

bllguo 8y ago
hmm, the first result in google for "martin minnow apple" that contains all those keywords is your comment
- justherefortart 8y ago
  Things were different in the 1990s, not everything was on the internet.
- newman8r 8y ago
  Yeah I can't find anything either, good fact-checking. Hopefully just a misspelled name.
  - bondolo 8y ago
    Spellcheck had indeed "corrected" the spelling of his last name from "Minow" to "Minnow". Now fixed.
    - bllguo 8y ago

rm_-rf_slash 8y ago

I worked at Apple in the past. I pride myself on having never told a soul what I really did there, as anyone who does know was informed through proper channels. Perhaps if I had worked at some other company and saw highly unethical/illegal shit going on, I might consider whistleblowing, but I would never leak for the sake of leaking, even if it would cause a lot of hype or news commentary. It just seems sociopathic to do so. Same goes for this memo. And if the leaker is reading this comment right now, then I ask, rhetorically, if you don’t feel comfortable with your employer’s preference for secrecy, then why are you working there?

bhuga 8y ago

> Leakers do not simply lose their jobs at Apple. In some cases, they face jail time and massive fines for network intrusion and theft of trade secrets both classified as federal crimes. In 2017, Apple caught 29 leakers. 12 of those were arrested. This is an email they sent to employees? It sure doesn't sound fun to work there.

brianpan 8y ago
You can also go to prison for insider trading. Is this also too onerous for you? What reason is there for leaking information about the company you are currently working for?
- pcwalton 8y ago
  I think the tone is heavy-handed. Leaking can happen accidentally--for example, by leaving an iPhone in a bar--and sending the message that this could result in criminal prosecution doesn't seem good for morale. Of course, every employee at Apple knows the culture of the company, so it's not like it should be any surprise.
  - IBM 8y ago
    The guy who left the iPhone 4 at a bar was never fired because it was an accident. In fact he stayed at Apple until 2017 [1]. [1] https://www.linkedin.com/in/graypowell/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/graypowell/
  - dpkonofa 8y ago
    >Of course, every employee at Apple knows the culture of the company, so it's not like it should be any surprise. I used to work at Apple (both at the retail stores and briefly in Cupertino) and, out of all the jobs I've had, it's still my favorite corporate culture. It's the only company where I felt like I wasn't just a number. It wasn't uncommon for opportunities to open up for people all throughout the company and, as long as you weren't stealing or doing something else (like leaking info) that could harm the company, there seemed to be a mutual respect between upper management and even low-level employees.

ninjakeyboard 8y ago

Yo dawg! I heard you liked leak memos, so I put a leak memo out on your leak memo.

forapurpose 8y ago

> The crackdown is part of broader and long-running attempts by Silicon Valley technology companies to track and limit what information their employees share publicly The contrast between the aggressive privacy of companies (and government) and the non-existent privacy of individuals is shocking. Apple claims to have people arrested for violating its privacy; practically, I have no power - they can take almost whatever they want and do whatever they want with it, and there's nothing I can do. In fact, the complete lack of privacy by individuals may the means by which companies find who released the information. Finally, these moves are counter to an open society. In an open society, it's the powerful people and public institutions who need to be transparent - they are the threats to democracy and liberty - not the everyday private citizens.

justherefortart 8y ago
We need to elect people that write laws that will protect the public. Although, seeing how well that's worked out for labor, I'm not holding my breath.
dpkonofa 8y ago
I don't understand the article's assertion in the context of this being something unique or new to Silicon Valley. Companies have always tried to keep trade secrets behind closed doors and limit what employees share about them. They wouldn't be "secrets" if they weren't limited to select individuals and had information that was ok to disclose publicly. The idea that this is some new Orwellian culture shift is so stupid...
- forapurpose 8y ago
  I was going to address this comment until I read the last two words, which just shut down intelligent discussion.
  - dpkonofa 8y ago
    Why? Intelligent people can't use the words "so stupid"?

wannabedevelopr 8y ago

The irony...

Mrtierne 8y ago

You gotta love when real headlines are indistinguishable from The Onion

walrus01 8y ago

I wonder how many ex-intelligence-agency counterintelligence people Apply employs. Probably at least a few. Question for those who've gone through CI training: Do Apple leaks all fit into one of the MICE categories? I don't think there is any new motivation. (Money, Ideology, Conscience, Ego) Would be very interested to see what programs they have developed to intentionally generate false but plausible information internally, get it into the hands of specific people or workgroups, and see if/where/how/when it leaks. Usually done for the purpose of identifying specific leakers or compartments that are leaking.

trisimix 8y ago
As of a CI would respond haha
- walrus01 8y ago
  Given the scale/size/financial scope of Apple I would be entirely unsurprised if they had an entire TSCM group recruited from ex-three-letter-agency people and a group of HUMINT experts functionally equivalent to CI, but with a different name.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
ksec 8y ago
They do, As it was published by Bloomberg in a previous article on leaks. Some ex-CIA, FBI etc works there.

rajacombinator 8y ago

Can’t think of many relevant product leaks from Apple ... maybe stuff about their chip and display manufacturing? Their consumer products are pretty straightforward and all the leaks come from China anyway.

userbinator 8y ago

Fortunately companies cannot yet control their employees completely, and so leaks will keep happening. This may be rather controversial, but I think that's a good thing. It pleases me to see people who do not completely toe the line getting themselves into companies for the purpose of eventually leaking something, effectively hindering the rise of total corporate control. Especially with a company so secretive and forceful in its mission of locking out devices against their owners (and attackers, ostensibly), it's good to see some "retaliation". To all the leakers: we need people like you, who are not afraid of the consequences of doing what you think is right. Many thanks to those who leaked the schematics and service manuals for various products (including Apple's), the HDCP master key, the AACS key, the SD card specs, the memory stick specs, everything on SciHub, and the list goes on... countless people would not have gained the knowledge and skills they have without your neighbourly efforts. Some related commentary: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11008717 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11008717 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16346174 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16346174 Edit: interesting to see the points on this bounce up and down. It seems I've struck a nerve.

readhn 8y ago

How much does a major leak of apple inside information cost? $50,000 $100,000 $200,000 more? I am assuming they dont leak the information for free. And if they do it for monetary reasons - the amount has to be large enough to justify risking your job (freakonomics 101). If they do it just for their ego boost (oh i got approached by so and so i must be very important) - then they are dumber than i thought.

arnonejoe 8y ago

I wonder how the leakers mentioned in the memo were caught?