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Magic Leap Ships First Set of Devices Under Tight Security Constraints
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- was_boring 9y agoI know someone that works for magic leap and is very disillusioned with the company because they haven't released a viable product. I wonder how long a company can continue without ever actually testing the market?
- joering2 9y agoRight? Why oh why it feels soo much like another Theranos?
- s2g 9y agoWe have a world changing product that we won't show you, but trust us it will blow your mind when we release it at an unspecified date.
- wpietri 9y agoExactly. One of the big concerns for me is the extent to which their work-in-isolation approach has baked in untested market and design hypotheses. By the time they test them in the real world, it could be too late to recover. I think one of the superpowers a startup has is that early on nobody gives a fuck what you're doing, so you're free to iterate quickly and boldly. You find out which of your brilliant ideas are brilliant and which are big mistakes. Magic Leap's hype/secrecy combo really cuts against that. Apple gets away with that because a) they have more money than God, and b) they mostly enter markets after other people have broken trail for them (e.g., iPod, iPhone, Apple Watch). It's perfectly plausible that Magic Leap will come out with an interesting but fatally flawed product, like the Amazon Fire Phone or Google Glass. Amazon and Google can shrug and move on, but Magic Leap may not have the cash to recover. Or, possibly worse, they come out with something like the Segway: really interesting tech that everybody is excited about, but with little practical use once we get past the gee-whiz phase. For a company that has already raised $2.3 billion, that could be fatal.
- oftenwrong 9y agoI'd say Segways are practical, although I've never had the opportunity to try one. They still are produced. They are likely the best way I've seen to increase a human's range of travel in human-scale environments, both indoor and outdoor. I have seen them used by park rangers and tourists, mostly. The main barrier to adoption seems to be the high price.
- Freak_NL 9y agoIt's still a niche market. Tourists use them because they are rare (so Segways are marketed as a tourist experience). This puts them in the realm of donkey rides and pedal boats as far as the tourist market is concerned. Their practical use is limited to places where cheaper, simpler alternatives can't be used — this basically means places you wouldn't use a bicycle or electric scooter because of the collision risk or space constraints, like shopping malls. Even in large data centres and huge warehouses people would choose bicycles over Segways — a dedicated indoor bicycle is cheap and quite low maintenance.
- kuschku 9y agoIn a way, Segways are really common nowadays – since the chinese "hoverboards" (which are basically just slight modifications of the segway concept) made them affordable, I’m seeing them everywhere
- wpietri 9y agoYes, that's why I said "little practical use", rather than "no practical use". I'm suspicious of your thesis that Segway price is the main problem. Electric bikes and Vespa scooters cost about the same, and I see far more of those around San Francisco than Segways. The only Segways I see outdoors in SF are people on a group Segway tour, which suggests that they are more valued for novelty than practical benefits.
- everyone 9y agoI thought the modern startup business model was about never actually making a profit but instead raising round after round of funding.
- yoran 9y agoI surely hope for them that we don't see a repeat of Segway. Millions and millions in funding to eventually end up being only used by Segway tours for tourists and the odd policeman.
- portofcall 9y agoSegway actually produced what they initially set out to produce. ML is a mass of bullshit patents and claims that eventually led to a Lite version of Holocens.
- VikingCoder 9y agoAnd I know a hundred reporters and a million lay people who complain that Google Glass went to market too fast. It's easy to armchair quarterback. It's not like there's a formula for product success.
- baxtr 9y agoIt does sound very much like good old waterfall, doesn’t it. So you would assume that the product must fail without proper market testing. But then again, Apple is never testing before releasing a product, so I don’t know. It could still if they have some product geniuses working for them
- michaelbuckbee 9y agoNobody believes me, but the real market test of MagicLeap, Hololens, and Oculus isn't coming until they release a device that's competing with smartphones. Zuck didn't spend 2Billion on VR to play games, it was a bet that they could move from VR->AR->Thing that replaces smartphones. Google didn't put 500million into ML because they seriously think that next year people are going to be walking around looking like Shaq here: https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--bmAwzL8M--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/zp14ofjmcmy5absub4wt.png https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--bmAwzL8... The first iPhone was released just 10 years ago and it's now the dominant form factor for computing on the planet, but like every other technology it will come to an end. Something more capable, more integrated into our lives, etc. will replace smartphones (just as every other technical innovation since the history of time has been improved upon and then replaced). The right frame of reference to look at AR systems today is as very early prototypes for what that smartphone replacement tech might look like.
- nkarpov 9y agoYou're right that there is always a race to build a new hardware platform. You're wrong that one literally replaces another.
- rasz 9y agoThey exist solely because their product (if there is any) is not field tested. As soon as you give consumers a taste all of your hyper marketing clashes with reality and valuation evaporates.
- BoorishBears 9y agoIn case anyone is wondering, this really isn’t that unusual. For the longest time you couldn’t get most console dev kits without a business address and very strict guidelines on a separate lockable space for the hardware. I think there’s been some relaxation on that more recently (I know at least with Nintendo there has), but it’s not that odd that a supposedly earth shattering technology have those guidelines.
- raverbashing 9y agoSounds more like a gimmick to create hype, in Magic Leap's case I can understand the case with videogames, for pre-release dev kits, but maybe it's too much as well.
- ericd 9y agoWhy can't it be a legitimate concern, where they want to maximize the amount of development time before their competitors get their hands on them and start reverse engineering? This isn't a lightly modified PC meant to run games, this is whole new tech that could spawn a potentially huge new market if it turns out to be good. There's a lot at stake.
- banachtarski 9y agoWe have this amazing pin-drop blood testing device. But no releasing papers for peer review is too risky. It's too revolutionary! No, don't ask us how it works, we don't even reveal it to family it's that amazing. - Theranos
- dmix 9y agoTheranos was able to fool people by not allowing their system into 3rd party hands and doing all of the tests behind closed doors, mostly using 3rd party existing industry machines. I don't see how that analogy applies here when the entire device is being given to actual companies and with restrictions merely because Magic Leap wants to control the full PR experience when the product launches. That PR will come out in some fashion in the near future, and it won't require a whistleblower within the company to leak it and risk losing their jobs.
- Mononokay 9y ago> But access to the gadget comes with an usual caveat Am I not right here, or is it supposed to be "a usual caveat"? Edit: Or alternatively, "an unusual caveat."
- 83457 9y agoDepends on how you pronounce beginning of "usual". If "y" sound then use "a" but if "oo" then "an". Just like words like "history" can be pronounced differently and thus can be "a" or "an" depending on location/accent of writer.
- robinduckett 9y agoI don't think that's correct.
- lfxyz 9y agoI'm afraid it is. I had to relinquish my copies of Butcher's Copy Editing and the New Hart's Rules when I left my editorial job, but I've found the rule of indefinite articles preceding vowels referenced on the Chicago Manual of Style site[0]. [0] http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/qanda/data/faq/topics/Usage/faq0068.html http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/qanda/data/faq/topics/Us...
- Dylan16807 9y ago1. I'm pretty sure nobody says "oosual" 2. Every time I have heard "an historic", that person pronounced the "h". It might have been downplayed slightly, but it has always been there. They are using "an" because it's an (historical) idiom, even though it's grammatically incorrect.
- Intermernet 9y ago> I'm pretty sure nobody says "oosual" The cool / terrible thing about English (and other "international" languages) is that if there is a way to pronounce something someway, someone will pronounce it that way. Once we then define grammatical rules based on pronunciation of surrounding words, we then have to deal with the fallout of those rules. I have my opinions of pronunciation, but if the majority start pronouncing "usual" as "oosual" then I'll just shake my head and grumble a bit while accepting that the language has moved on. After all, Americans say "Aluminum" and there's nothing I can do about it!
- cm2012 9y agoTheranos 2.0
- ericd 9y agoInvestors actually tried the hardware before investing in this case, so it's a bit different.
- foobiekr 9y agoThey tried hardware. Whether they tried a product that the company had no hope of ever making practical and portable is the question.
- ericd 9y agoYep, they're betting that there is a hope of that. They're not investing in blue chips here. I think it's a bit much to jump to the conclusion that ML knows they're on a fools errand and are defrauding investors, just because they're secretive and they pump out hype.
- glup 9y agoExactly my reading. Hungry capital and irrational exuberance.
- edanm 9y agoWhy do you think so?
- aaron695 9y agoThere's no proof it'll work, in fact the proof is it won't work at it's current value. The idea itself is incredibly flawed from the known products, like Theranos it should be obvious what the issues are to a normal person. But what Theranos showed was even if the product is flawed in a very obvious way, investors will still invest. The investment itself can't be used as proof it'll work. Hence the comparison.
- asafira 9y agoAre we going to get a version 2.0 of the hololens or oculus anytime soon to see what the next-generation lineup is going to be like? Is there already information out on them?
- Tossrock 9y agoThe Vive Pro is coming out quite soon with ~70% increased resolution over the original Vive/Oculus. Then there's the two Pimax iterations coming later which have even more. Haven't heard anything specifically about the Hololens or Oculus, but there are a good number of Hololens-derived headsets (ie using the same inside-out tracking tech) in the wild under the Windows Mixed Reality marque, eg the Samsung Odyssey. The Odyssey has the same resolution as the upcoming Vive Pro (1440 x 1600 per eye).
- notatoad 9y agoGoogle and LG announced a partnership for 1440x1600 panels for an upcoming daydream viewer too. Seems to be the new standard.
- sasmithjr 9y agoThe last rumor I saw was that Microsoft shelved Hololens v2 to spend more time working on v3 because no one (e.g. Magic Leap) was even close to releasing a competing product. https://www.thurrott.com/hardware/90780/microsoft-accelerates-hololens-v3-development-sidesteps-v2 https://www.thurrott.com/hardware/90780/microsoft-accelerate...
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- tigershark 9y agoIt’s impossible that they are shipping. Accordingly to a lot of HN users the device doesn’t exist. /s
- shawn 9y agoHey all, avaer is streaming hacking on the Magic Leap SDK, live now: https://www.twitch.tv/avaer https://www.twitch.tv/avaer (Streams pretty much daily.) You can see past coding sessions here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbeboI7dMETmnUro91AxJZA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbeboI7dMETmnUro91AxJZA I was skeptical of Magic Leap too, but their SDK is very real. Maybe seeing it in action might dispel some of the concerns.
- pavlov 9y agoAn SDK is of no use if the hardware doesn’t live up. The Apple Newton had a really nice software stack too.
- shawn 9y agoVery true. What caught my attention as a graphics dev is how legit their SDK design was: https://rawgit.com/shawwn/magic-leap-docs/master/v0.11.1/api/html/modules.html https://rawgit.com/shawwn/magic-leap-docs/master/v0.11.1/api... i.e. If you imagine writing an SDK for a bag of hot air, it seems like it would turn out very different from what you see there. It's also small and tasteful. That caught me too. I didn't expect a big company to put out something elegant, but they seem to know what they're doing. You're right though -- it all comes down to the hardware. We'll found out later this year.
- pavlov 9y agoThe SDK looks good, but I don’t see any big surprises: it looks quite similar to the Oculus and Microsoft Hololens frameworks. It seems like the kind of SDK a highly competent software team might develop just by extrapolating from competitors’ shipping hardware.
- Noah_A_S 9y agoHey Shawn, I just made my YC account thought I'd say Hi. and yes, it's a legitimate SDK nothing could be more real. I can't wait for the runtime. I wonder if it's anything like the framework you and Adrian have cooked up btw since I'm brand new to YC do you think you could maybe teach me how to mention someone on YC, or is it not something you can do? I'll see you in the morning on slack. :)
- cromwellian 9y agoIs this any more unusual than what Apple did with the iPhone,iPad, and Apple Watch with regards to third party developers?
- firefoxd 9y agoThe mystery, the security and the obscurity are all part of the product.
- sschueller 9y agoI have the feeling the only thing white collar crocks get charged with these days is insider trading. I wouldn't be surprised if those laws get more lax next.
- sschueller 9y agoOops, this comment was for another post. Something odd is going on with the mobile app.
- Intermernet 9y agoWhich mobile app? I don't think HN have an official app, and I'd like to know if one of the 3rd party apps needs a hand with any issues. Not sure if I could help, but I do like hunting down random bugs :-)
- sschueller 9y agoI use materialistic on Android. https://github.com/hidroh/materialistic https://github.com/hidroh/materialistic I don't recall exactly how it happend but I think I was reading an article, then went back to the home screen and selected add comment from the dropdown of that article row. It may have also been user error.
- bsbechtel 9y agoRandom HN poll: How many people here are actually considering buying Magic Leap's product when it becomes available?
- neuronic 9y agoThis question is not okay because it equates to asking if "people" would by a "random AR product" from a firm that "received a lot of funding". We simply do not have the information to even consider, let alone form a conclusion.
- PaulHoule 9y agoIf it is similar to the Hololens in capability and half the price I would think about it, but it is far in line behind "upgrade my stereo system" or "go skiing in Japan".
- nl 9y agoOf course, if it works and has interesting software.
- ryandrake 9y agoHow can one even consider buying something if they don’t know what it is, what it does, or if and when it will even be available?
- Holomakerbot 9y agoRead this to find out what it is and what it does: https://www.rollingstone.com/glixel/features/lightwear-introducing-magic-leaps-mixed-reality-goggles-w514479 https://www.rollingstone.com/glixel/features/lightwear-intro... Release is this year. Pricing will come at time of preorder.
- Theodores 9y agoNope. Not ever. I think augmented reality is going to come from a very different direction, the medical-eyesight-healthcare world making products for old folks that can't see properly or remember stuff. Not trendy companies making games for young people who can see perfectly and don't want to be seen with clumsy gadgets bolted to their heads. The 'apps' could be quite simple, imagine any product barcode gets read and you can just look down to read the ingredients and what-not, using a few physical buttons on a watch to skip sections. The payment for such a device could be on healthcare, glasses that magically make reading possible despite needing reading glasses. Maybe they tell you when to take your pills and keep track of your toilet visits too. Perhaps it is too obvious a product for the games crowd, a 'basic' set of AR glasses that just let people read stuff and get directions. That 'stuff' being real world, e.g. product in supermarket, or messages, e.g. that picture of the grandchild just posted to the family channel.
- katebrooks 9y agoLooks more of a marketing stunt than security.
- cmiles74 9y agoMy first thought is that this business about keeping the unit in a locked safe is just another way to generate press around the early release of development units, something that most people might not find that exciting. Other hardware companies have had similar requirements but I don't remember that warranting an article on Bloomberg.
- obmelvin 9y agoIf other companies do it then why would they be doing it for press? I think it's more likely that this is getting an article because there's been such obscene amounts of hype around Magic Leap.
- coryfklein 9y agoAll these people crying, "marketing stunt," obviously have no idea the complex processes and efforts that go into writing business contracts. As if lawyers at Magic Leap have the heads of marketing on speed dial or something.
- dmix 9y agoIf anything it's the marketing dept who most want these controls. Controlling when information gets released is a big part of doing PR and marketing big ticket items like this. Magic Leap has all the power in this situation, the press are nipping at their heels and will eat out of their hand. Magic Leap can control what gets released and when, and build it up to maximize output in big "exciting" blasts. Instead of raw information trickling out of 3rd party companies which they have no control over. Choosing to take advantage of that power (which few companies have) is just basic common business sense. And the arguments against it are as silly as "if you've got nothing to hide, than you have nothing to worry about", as if there are no inherent risks of not being in control of your own information, even when you're doing nothing wrong.
- dantetwc 9y agoMagic Leap is just another Theranos.
- LyalinDotCom 9y ago"Magic Leap Inc. has quietly begun sending its mysterious augmented reality headsets into the wild. A small group of software developers recently received devices at their offices, according to people familiar with the matter. But access to the gadget comes with an unusual caveat: They must commit to keeping them in locked safes." Let me explain how this works as a marketing person. You create hype for your new thing any way you can, for example if you ask developers getting the device to put it in a safe, all of a sudden you keep yourself in the news, because its stupid. and the news media loves stupid and strange things, they get people to click on it and promote it on HN. I am not saying this wont be a great device and im excited for this product honestly, but artificial hype like this needs to be seen for what it is. Let them prove their product through its actual technology, SDK's and consumer love, then we'll see. I wish Magic Leap all the best!
- Holomakerbot 9y agoWas the part about a developer turning it down because of the NDA part of the marketing too? Most likely this story came out because the press will print anything about magic leap if it fits the narrative of ML being in trouble. Highly unlikely this was a marketing stunt.
- saudioger 9y agoWhat's the deal with the hype on this thing, isn't it just some iteration on the Hololens? Limited FOV, decent tracking, same old story...
- dmix 9y agoIt's quite obvious what the hype is about. Manhattan project style projects with massive funding and talent will always be interesting. And just because Nokia had a smartphone before iPhone doesn't mean you could dismiss it just as a "touch screen phone with an operating system and apps".
- Animats 9y agoSo, years after the Microsoft HoloLens, they come out with a clunkier version with roughly equivalent performance. So? The HoloLens is quite good as a wearable device. I've tried one. It's much lighter than an HTC Vibe or Oculus Rift, despite being self-contained and wireless.