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The question is - will this be just a minor blip to Facebook and then normal services will resume after the indignation wears off? Or will it the beginning of

The question is - will this be just a minor blip to Facebook and then normal services will resume after the indignation wears off? Or will it the beginning of the end of the social media dominance of the platform? For me personally, I use FB primarily to keep in touch with friends, family and old colleagues who are spread all over the world. It is purely a contact tool, and not really used to market products of services etc., so my attachment is purely an emotional one. However, I must admit that this latest episode has really hammered my trust in the platform FAR more than any other previous ones (and there have been many). Yesterday, for the first time ever, I went through my FB settings and removed a lot of personal information as well as stagnant apps that I had approved YEARS ago from my permitted apps list. I am also seriously reconsidering what I do post on there from now on, as well as drastically reducing the number of times I post. I've also turned off location tracking for the FB app on my phone, and am considering deleting it altogether and just sticking to the web platform. Will I change my mind in a months time? It's unlikely, but who knows? I like being able to talk to family that are literally on the other side of the world, and it is too hard for me to get them all to adopt Telegram or any other communication tool outside of FB Messenger, so I may find myself drawn back in.

astronautjones 9y ago
I had deactivated my account a year or two ago, and turned it back on to "permanently delete" my account. The most prominent UX option about deleting your account on their privacy page is is an opt-in for deleting your account after you die (...)
netsharc 9y ago
A year or so ago I noticed I would wake up and the first thing I did was load up Facebook in my phone. I deleted the app, and what do I do? i still open it on my phone's browser. So I changed my password to 32 characters generated by Keepass, and make sure I logged out of it on my phone. I'm still logged in on the desktop, but nowadays it's pretty quiet anyway. Thr last few days I've been using a Chrome extension (1) to delete stuff from my wall, reasoning that just like real life interactions, it's okay to forget things (well I did download my archive/went through my activity logs and saved them as HTML files). There's only 1 person I wish to stay in touch that I talk to exclusively on Messenger. I think I will have to persuade them to install another app. Admittedly it will be WhatsApp, which is also Zuckerberg's tool for "dumb fucks". (1) https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/social-book-post-manager/ljfidlkcmdmmibngdfikhffffdmphjae https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/social-book-post-m...
- skeleton 9y ago
  I had a similar behaviour years ago. I deleted the app from my phone, but then after a short while logged in via my phone's browser. A short while after that I chose to 'delete' my account (after backing up the archive of course). Since it gives you 30 days to reconsider your decision, I thought if I really missed facebook that much I'd log in within the 30 days. It's been years since and I haven't had the slightest desire to be apart of facebook. In recent times my attention has been drawn to the amount of time wasted on random Youtube videos. Youtube is more difficult since the service actually has value to me. Somehow restricting my access to only videos from my subscriptions could be a possible solution.
- mr_spothawk 9y ago
  which chrome extension are you using, plz?
  - netsharc 9y ago
    This one: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/social-book-post-manager/ljfidlkcmdmmibngdfikhffffdmphjae https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/social-book-post-m...
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- kibwen 9y ago
  Similar story here: a while back I installed a browser extension to delay the loading of unproductive sites that I was habitually visiting just to distract myself from tasks, imposing a 30 second wait barrier. What it's revealed is that there are some sites that I'm very willing to wait 30 seconds to visit (e.g. if there's a certain song on YouTube that I want to play in the background), but not once have I ever bothered to wait 30 seconds for Facebook to load. My fingers instinctively type the domain, the delay page appears, and then I close the tab. Makes it easy to realize how little value Facebook was providing me.
  - cgmg 9y ago
austincheney 9y ago
It will be a minor blip. Most users are utterly addicted and don't value their privacy over their convenience despite what they say. I deleted my account in 2010 and there was absolutely no change in my daily behavior, but then I wasn't a chronic addict either. Honestly, if users haven't figure out by now that their privacy is utterly void when they use Facebook they absolutely don't care.
- mcphage 9y ago
  > don't value their privacy over their convenience For lots of people, it's "don't value their privacy over being able to keep in touch with friends and family", not merely convenience.
  - austincheney 9y ago
    I have a phone for that.
    - musage 9y ago
      No, that's for talking with a person. Facebook is for "keeping in touch", which is a bit like the Unix command touch. It doesn't read or modify the file, it just increments the date.
  - mantas 9y ago
    As if FB is the single way to to do that
  - gkya 9y ago
    TBH my observation is that for many it's just engaging in stupid circlejerks and flamewars with strangers and post glorified "good morning" messages and celebrations and congratulations.
d--b 9y ago
I hope I'm wrong but I think this in no way bringing facebook down. Keeping in touch with friends & family is too important to ditch entirely, and having everyone switch to a different platform is very hard. That said, my whole extended family uses whats app nowadays...
- blindwatchmaker 9y ago
  Whatsapp is also owned by facebook.
  - matte_black 9y ago
    The reason I still invest in Facebook as a company is because of their ownership in these other platforms. I think the classic site’s days are numbered but it will be a while before it does a complete shutdown, if ever. At that point Facebook might decide to just completely redesign it into something different and recapture the lost audience.
- cm2187 9y ago
  I'd argue a lot if not probably the majority of users of Facebook are read only. What matters is really whether the minority of users who actively post are leaving or not. These are the most affected by privacy concerns. Once enough of them do, the platform dries out and its end will accelerate.
  - ktta 9y ago
    >What matters is really whether the minority of users who actively post are leaving or not. I see it differently. Looking at it from a stats perspective, people who just login and don't scroll are also pretty valuable for Facebook since they're still come under the DAU and MAU numbers. They're counted for the ad impressions, and subsequently ad revenue. Even though Facebook has prioritized friends' posts, bulk of the content (even though it can be not the most important) I think for most people is by pages and companies. Who I don't think are going to change in any way after this event.
andrei_says_ 9y ago
I highly recommend deleting the fb app from your device to prevent it listening on you, tracking location, draining your battery and bombarding you with notifications. If you must use messenger in mobile, https://mbasic.facebook.com/ https://mbasic.facebook.com/ works
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- jmspring 9y ago
  One can also request the FB site be reloaded as the desktop version - less painful than mbasic.
  - Jaruzel 9y ago
    Does https://touch.facebook.com/ https://touch.facebook.com/ still work ? Last time I checked, it was a halfway house between mbasic and the desktop version.
- Dreami 9y ago
  They also say, in the mobile web version, that there are Stories, that can only be viewed in the app. Nope, desktop mode is enough (of course).
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
nkrisc 9y ago
I'd recommend deleting the app and just using the mobile site to save your battery.
rsp1984 9y ago
By bets are on minor blip. Every large company is going through a shitstorm every once in a while. Now it's FB's turn. The media loves this and pushes the matter as much as possible as it translates directly into clicks (and therefore revenue). Remember the outrage about Apple slowing down iPhones and iPads? Or the outrage about Apple's and Google's tax avoidance schemes? My bet is nobody's going to talk about this incident 6 months from now and FB's stock price will have more than recovered.
- test1235 9y ago
  The outrage about Just Eat shifting fees onto their customers ... but a distant memory, and this was like, a month ago or something.
indigochill 9y ago
Minor blip for sure. There's a media frenzy, but I only personally know two people who are even talking about it, and even they're not totally sold on jumping ship just yet. They've also known better than to post personal information on there (and I've posted bogus personal information just to mess with FB, which I heartily recommend to everyone. False information is better for your privacy than no information).
- TomMarius 9y ago
  Yes, even my developer friends mostly have no idea something is hapenning.
nathan_f77 9y ago
> The hashtag #DeleteFacebook appeared more than 10,000 times on Twitter within a two-hour period on Wednesday, according to the analytics service ExportTweet. On Tuesday, it was mentioned 40,398 times, according to the analytics service Digimind. The media have been pumping out a lot of articles, but 40,000 tweets is really nothing. Facebook has 2.2 billion monthly active users - that's 75% of all humans who have internet access. I think Facebook will probably exist for the rest of human history. They'll be a multiplanetary social network, and they'll probably still be running when the sun becomes a red giant.
dominotw 9y ago
will be like #deleteUber . People don't care.
jjuel 9y ago
I mean do we really think Facebook is the only company with data problems? Is switching to something different really going to make a difference? Deleting your Facebook won't get rid of your data. Google, Microsoft, Twitter, your ISP, your cell carrier all have so much data on you. At this point you are out there in someone's database somewhere. Unless you haven't been on the grid at all which clearly anyone on HN is on the grid. So not sure what we think #DeleteFacebook will really do?
- alekratz 9y ago
  It annoys me that you're getting downvoted with no replies. I completely agree with you. The only way to stop your data from being spread across the web is to never put it there in the first place. I feel like federated systems (Mastodon, Diaspora*, et al) will only make it more difficult to remove your data, because now it's spread across 100 individual servers in 100 individual countries with 100 individuals doing their own thing. It ends up being even MORE permanent in the end, IMO.
  - andrepd 9y ago
    Absolutely. You got to think: "what am I getting out of this; is it really worth it?". Maybe you'll then realize that it's best to keep your data out of somebody else's computer.
  - hokus 9y ago
    There is no end. I suspect multi generational data to be endlessly more nasty. We do have other approaches. That I can obtain your employment contract, take your picture as you walk in and out of buildings and when you visit the beach, figure out your birth day and who you hang out with... ...doesn't mean I'm allowed to or freely share/sell every detail of your life. We could for example create a license or permit for gathering a type of data. Like: If you are a dating agency you can ask for peoples sex. If you are a head hunter you may gather data on employment history. If you have a taxi service you can ask for peoples address. We could also adopt a government issued key for things like signing petitions. Where the data is stored could also be subject to regulation. Its possible to keep access logs with specific justification for each bit of sensitive information accessed.
patorjk 9y ago
I think it will be a minor blip. There's been such a drum beat about FB being bad for privacy over the years that most users probably don't care. I know it's just one data point, but none of my friends have mentioned this latest episode. Additionally, re-building a social presence on another network would be a lot of work for many users. There's a certain dopamine rush to making a post and getting a ton of likes. In the short term, users are not going to get that kind of engagement if they move shop to another platform.
Moodles 9y ago
> The question is - will this be just a minor blip to Facebook and then normal services will resume after the indignation wears off? Or will it the beginning of the end of the social media dominance of the platform? I'd bet my house it is the former. I think on HN we understandably make assumptions about the general population due to the bubble we live in. The reactions to other privacy scandals e.g. wikileaks or Snowden was actually pretty muted. John Oliver did a great piece when he met Snowden for example: literally pointing out that almost everyone he asked on the streets of New York had no idea who he was (https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/4x3pvm/john-oliver-to-edward-snowden-no-one-knows-who-the-fuck-you-are https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/4x3pvm/john-olive...). So the idea of a mass exodus from Facebook is extremely unlikely.
- InternetUser 9y ago
  I suppose it all depends on how much user attrition you would say constitutes a "mass exodus." How many millions of former users would that be? Or what percentage from what high-point? By these following reports, there's been a mass exodus in terms of usage among the much-sought-after teenage demographic, and that's been happening from Facebook to Snapchat for at least two years now: Oct 2016: Snapchat Beats Instagram and Facebook as the Top Social Platform for Teens http://www.adweek.com/digital/snapchat-beats-instagram-and-facebook-top-social-platform-teens-174053/ http://www.adweek.com/digital/snapchat-beats-instagram-and-f... May 2017: AppAnnie report: "On any given day in the US, 35% of Snapchat’s daily users cannot be reached by Facebook, 46% can't be reached by Instagram and 58% can’t be reached by Messenger" the report says. https://mashable.com/2017/05/03/snapchat-users-facebook/#2PmfvQNqIqqk https://mashable.com/2017/05/03/snapchat-users-facebook/#2Pm... Oct 2017: Snapchat Furthers Its Lead As Teens’ Favorite Social Platform, BUT [Instagram is Reportedly "a Better Bet" for Marketers] https://www.marketingcharts.com/digital/social-media-80744 https://www.marketingcharts.com/digital/social-media-80744
  - Moodles 9y ago
    Sure, I agree that "mass exodus" is ill-defined. I have nothing to back this up, but I think we can both agree that it is extremely unlikely Cambridge Analytica really has anything to do with the teenagers preferring Snapchat to Facebook.
nojvek 9y ago
I removed FB app, deleted everything in FB except my friends list. I just use web.messenger.com to contact them. That is the only value for me.

astronautjones 9y ago

I had deactivated my account a year or two ago, and turned it back on to "permanently delete" my account. The most prominent UX option about deleting your account on their privacy page is is an opt-in for deleting your account after you die (...)

netsharc 9y ago

A year or so ago I noticed I would wake up and the first thing I did was load up Facebook in my phone. I deleted the app, and what do I do? i still open it on my phone's browser. So I changed my password to 32 characters generated by Keepass, and make sure I logged out of it on my phone. I'm still logged in on the desktop, but nowadays it's pretty quiet anyway. Thr last few days I've been using a Chrome extension (1) to delete stuff from my wall, reasoning that just like real life interactions, it's okay to forget things (well I did download my archive/went through my activity logs and saved them as HTML files). There's only 1 person I wish to stay in touch that I talk to exclusively on Messenger. I think I will have to persuade them to install another app. Admittedly it will be WhatsApp, which is also Zuckerberg's tool for "dumb fucks". (1) https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/social-book-post-manager/ljfidlkcmdmmibngdfikhffffdmphjae https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/social-book-post-m...

skeleton 9y ago
I had a similar behaviour years ago. I deleted the app from my phone, but then after a short while logged in via my phone's browser. A short while after that I chose to 'delete' my account (after backing up the archive of course). Since it gives you 30 days to reconsider your decision, I thought if I really missed facebook that much I'd log in within the 30 days. It's been years since and I haven't had the slightest desire to be apart of facebook. In recent times my attention has been drawn to the amount of time wasted on random Youtube videos. Youtube is more difficult since the service actually has value to me. Somehow restricting my access to only videos from my subscriptions could be a possible solution.
mr_spothawk 9y ago
which chrome extension are you using, plz?
- netsharc 9y ago
  This one: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/social-book-post-manager/ljfidlkcmdmmibngdfikhffffdmphjae https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/social-book-post-m...
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
kibwen 9y ago
Similar story here: a while back I installed a browser extension to delay the loading of unproductive sites that I was habitually visiting just to distract myself from tasks, imposing a 30 second wait barrier. What it's revealed is that there are some sites that I'm very willing to wait 30 seconds to visit (e.g. if there's a certain song on YouTube that I want to play in the background), but not once have I ever bothered to wait 30 seconds for Facebook to load. My fingers instinctively type the domain, the delay page appears, and then I close the tab. Makes it easy to realize how little value Facebook was providing me.
- cgmg 9y ago

austincheney 9y ago

It will be a minor blip. Most users are utterly addicted and don't value their privacy over their convenience despite what they say. I deleted my account in 2010 and there was absolutely no change in my daily behavior, but then I wasn't a chronic addict either. Honestly, if users haven't figure out by now that their privacy is utterly void when they use Facebook they absolutely don't care.

mcphage 9y ago
> don't value their privacy over their convenience For lots of people, it's "don't value their privacy over being able to keep in touch with friends and family", not merely convenience.
- austincheney 9y ago
  I have a phone for that.
  - musage 9y ago
    No, that's for talking with a person. Facebook is for "keeping in touch", which is a bit like the Unix command touch. It doesn't read or modify the file, it just increments the date.
- mantas 9y ago
  As if FB is the single way to to do that
- gkya 9y ago
  TBH my observation is that for many it's just engaging in stupid circlejerks and flamewars with strangers and post glorified "good morning" messages and celebrations and congratulations.

d--b 9y ago

I hope I'm wrong but I think this in no way bringing facebook down. Keeping in touch with friends & family is too important to ditch entirely, and having everyone switch to a different platform is very hard. That said, my whole extended family uses whats app nowadays...

blindwatchmaker 9y ago
Whatsapp is also owned by facebook.
- matte_black 9y ago
  The reason I still invest in Facebook as a company is because of their ownership in these other platforms. I think the classic site’s days are numbered but it will be a while before it does a complete shutdown, if ever. At that point Facebook might decide to just completely redesign it into something different and recapture the lost audience.
cm2187 9y ago
I'd argue a lot if not probably the majority of users of Facebook are read only. What matters is really whether the minority of users who actively post are leaving or not. These are the most affected by privacy concerns. Once enough of them do, the platform dries out and its end will accelerate.
- ktta 9y ago
  >What matters is really whether the minority of users who actively post are leaving or not. I see it differently. Looking at it from a stats perspective, people who just login and don't scroll are also pretty valuable for Facebook since they're still come under the DAU and MAU numbers. They're counted for the ad impressions, and subsequently ad revenue. Even though Facebook has prioritized friends' posts, bulk of the content (even though it can be not the most important) I think for most people is by pages and companies. Who I don't think are going to change in any way after this event.

andrei_says_ 9y ago

I highly recommend deleting the fb app from your device to prevent it listening on you, tracking location, draining your battery and bombarding you with notifications. If you must use messenger in mobile, https://mbasic.facebook.com/ https://mbasic.facebook.com/ works

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
jmspring 9y ago
One can also request the FB site be reloaded as the desktop version - less painful than mbasic.
- Jaruzel 9y ago
  Does https://touch.facebook.com/ https://touch.facebook.com/ still work ? Last time I checked, it was a halfway house between mbasic and the desktop version.
Dreami 9y ago
They also say, in the mobile web version, that there are Stories, that can only be viewed in the app. Nope, desktop mode is enough (of course).

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

nkrisc 9y ago

I'd recommend deleting the app and just using the mobile site to save your battery.

rsp1984 9y ago

By bets are on minor blip. Every large company is going through a shitstorm every once in a while. Now it's FB's turn. The media loves this and pushes the matter as much as possible as it translates directly into clicks (and therefore revenue). Remember the outrage about Apple slowing down iPhones and iPads? Or the outrage about Apple's and Google's tax avoidance schemes? My bet is nobody's going to talk about this incident 6 months from now and FB's stock price will have more than recovered.

test1235 9y ago
The outrage about Just Eat shifting fees onto their customers ... but a distant memory, and this was like, a month ago or something.

indigochill 9y ago

Minor blip for sure. There's a media frenzy, but I only personally know two people who are even talking about it, and even they're not totally sold on jumping ship just yet. They've also known better than to post personal information on there (and I've posted bogus personal information just to mess with FB, which I heartily recommend to everyone. False information is better for your privacy than no information).

TomMarius 9y ago
Yes, even my developer friends mostly have no idea something is hapenning.

nathan_f77 9y ago

> The hashtag #DeleteFacebook appeared more than 10,000 times on Twitter within a two-hour period on Wednesday, according to the analytics service ExportTweet. On Tuesday, it was mentioned 40,398 times, according to the analytics service Digimind. The media have been pumping out a lot of articles, but 40,000 tweets is really nothing. Facebook has 2.2 billion monthly active users - that's 75% of all humans who have internet access. I think Facebook will probably exist for the rest of human history. They'll be a multiplanetary social network, and they'll probably still be running when the sun becomes a red giant.

dominotw 9y ago

will be like #deleteUber . People don't care.

jjuel 9y ago

I mean do we really think Facebook is the only company with data problems? Is switching to something different really going to make a difference? Deleting your Facebook won't get rid of your data. Google, Microsoft, Twitter, your ISP, your cell carrier all have so much data on you. At this point you are out there in someone's database somewhere. Unless you haven't been on the grid at all which clearly anyone on HN is on the grid. So not sure what we think #DeleteFacebook will really do?

alekratz 9y ago
It annoys me that you're getting downvoted with no replies. I completely agree with you. The only way to stop your data from being spread across the web is to never put it there in the first place. I feel like federated systems (Mastodon, Diaspora*, et al) will only make it more difficult to remove your data, because now it's spread across 100 individual servers in 100 individual countries with 100 individuals doing their own thing. It ends up being even MORE permanent in the end, IMO.
- andrepd 9y ago
  Absolutely. You got to think: "what am I getting out of this; is it really worth it?". Maybe you'll then realize that it's best to keep your data out of somebody else's computer.
- hokus 9y ago
  There is no end. I suspect multi generational data to be endlessly more nasty. We do have other approaches. That I can obtain your employment contract, take your picture as you walk in and out of buildings and when you visit the beach, figure out your birth day and who you hang out with... ...doesn't mean I'm allowed to or freely share/sell every detail of your life. We could for example create a license or permit for gathering a type of data. Like: If you are a dating agency you can ask for peoples sex. If you are a head hunter you may gather data on employment history. If you have a taxi service you can ask for peoples address. We could also adopt a government issued key for things like signing petitions. Where the data is stored could also be subject to regulation. Its possible to keep access logs with specific justification for each bit of sensitive information accessed.

patorjk 9y ago

I think it will be a minor blip. There's been such a drum beat about FB being bad for privacy over the years that most users probably don't care. I know it's just one data point, but none of my friends have mentioned this latest episode. Additionally, re-building a social presence on another network would be a lot of work for many users. There's a certain dopamine rush to making a post and getting a ton of likes. In the short term, users are not going to get that kind of engagement if they move shop to another platform.

Moodles 9y ago

> The question is - will this be just a minor blip to Facebook and then normal services will resume after the indignation wears off? Or will it the beginning of the end of the social media dominance of the platform? I'd bet my house it is the former. I think on HN we understandably make assumptions about the general population due to the bubble we live in. The reactions to other privacy scandals e.g. wikileaks or Snowden was actually pretty muted. John Oliver did a great piece when he met Snowden for example: literally pointing out that almost everyone he asked on the streets of New York had no idea who he was (https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/4x3pvm/john-oliver-to-edward-snowden-no-one-knows-who-the-fuck-you-are https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/4x3pvm/john-olive...). So the idea of a mass exodus from Facebook is extremely unlikely.

InternetUser 9y ago
I suppose it all depends on how much user attrition you would say constitutes a "mass exodus." How many millions of former users would that be? Or what percentage from what high-point? By these following reports, there's been a mass exodus in terms of usage among the much-sought-after teenage demographic, and that's been happening from Facebook to Snapchat for at least two years now: Oct 2016: Snapchat Beats Instagram and Facebook as the Top Social Platform for Teens http://www.adweek.com/digital/snapchat-beats-instagram-and-facebook-top-social-platform-teens-174053/ http://www.adweek.com/digital/snapchat-beats-instagram-and-f... May 2017: AppAnnie report: "On any given day in the US, 35% of Snapchat’s daily users cannot be reached by Facebook, 46% can't be reached by Instagram and 58% can’t be reached by Messenger" the report says. https://mashable.com/2017/05/03/snapchat-users-facebook/#2PmfvQNqIqqk https://mashable.com/2017/05/03/snapchat-users-facebook/#2Pm... Oct 2017: Snapchat Furthers Its Lead As Teens’ Favorite Social Platform, BUT [Instagram is Reportedly "a Better Bet" for Marketers] https://www.marketingcharts.com/digital/social-media-80744 https://www.marketingcharts.com/digital/social-media-80744
- Moodles 9y ago
  Sure, I agree that "mass exodus" is ill-defined. I have nothing to back this up, but I think we can both agree that it is extremely unlikely Cambridge Analytica really has anything to do with the teenagers preferring Snapchat to Facebook.

nojvek 9y ago

I removed FB app, deleted everything in FB except my friends list. I just use web.messenger.com to contact them. That is the only value for me.