12 ms·

New Raspberry Pi Model B+

468 points by nnnnnick 9y ago

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
schappim 9y ago
TL;DR: The Raspberry Pi 3 Model B+ is a nice update that provides, better networking with WiFi now 802.11.b/g/n/ac, Bluetooth 4.2/BLE and Gigabit Ethernet (although limited to 300Mbps). For Makers, the Raspberry Pi Foundation has made it easier to incorporate the RPi3B+ into end products keeping the RPi3B+ in production until at least January 2023 and providing "modular compliance certification" for the wireless module. Source: https://raspberry.piaustralia.com.au/blog/new-raspberry-pi-3-model-b/ https://raspberry.piaustralia.com.au/blog/new-raspberry-pi-3... WHAT IS THE SAME: ----------------- - Same mechanical footprint as both the Raspberry Pi 2 Model B and the Raspberry Pi 3 Model B. - Same GPIO pinout, so no need to change your hats/shields/daughter boards - Same power supply recommended (5V/2.5A DC via micro USB connector) - Broadcom BCM2837B0, Cortex-A53 64-bit SoC (System on a Chip), but this time clocked to 1.4GHz, which yields roughly a 10% performance increase over the Raspberry Pi 3 Model B. The chip now has a metallic heatsink and bears the markings BCM2837B0 1FSBG, TA1738 P20 W39-01 N2 W. WHAT IS NEW: ------------ WIRELESS MODULE: The product briefing document from the foundation states that the onboard wireless module now supports dual-band 2.4GHz/5GHz IEEE 802.11ac and both Bluetooth 4.2 and BLE (Bluetooth Low Energy). The wireless module in the RPi3B+ is not mentioned in the product briefing document and is hidden under shielding. Prying open the shielding revealed a Cyprus Wireless CYW43455 (datasheet). - The CYW43455 supports the following WiFI standards: 802.11ac/n/a/b/g/d/h/i - Security: (WEP/ WPA Personal / WPA2 Personal / WMM /WMM-PS (U-APSD) /WMM-SA / AES (hardware accelerator) /TKIP (hardware accelerator) / CKIP (software support) - Proprietary protocols (CCXv2, CCXv3, CCXv4, CCXv5, WFAEC - IEEE 802.15.2 Coexistence Compliance (on-silicon solution compliant with IEEE 3-wire requirements) - The CYW43455 supports the following future IEEE drafts/standards: 802.11r (fast roaming between APs), 802.11w (secure management frames), 802.11 Extensions:, 802.11e QoS Enhancements (as per the WMM specification is already supported), 802.11h 5 GHz Extensions, 802.11i MAC Enhancements, 802.11k Radio Resource Measurement The CYW43455 data sheet states that the Bluetooth core supports: - Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR - Bluetooth 3.0 - Bluetooth 4.2 (Bluetooth Low Energy) The Wireless LAN module now has "modular compliance certification", which allows the board to be designed into end products with significantly reduced wireless LAN compliance testing, improving both cost and time to market. NEW GIGABIT ETHERNET: The new RPi3B+ has support for Gigabit Ethernet using Microchip's LAN7515 (which is a USB 2.0 to 10/100/1000 Ethernet Bridge with 4-port USB 2.0 Hub). The LAN7515 supports a max number of 6 downstream USB ports and 1 Ethernet Port limited to a maximum throughput of 300 Mbps. The LAN7515's ethernet controller supports numerous power management wakeup features, including Magic Packet™, Wake-on LAN (WOL) and Link Status Change. POWER: The RPi3B+ is Power over Ethernet (PoE)–enabled, but requires the purchasing of a separate PoE HAT. PRODUCTION LIFETIME: If you're thinking of incorporating the Raspberry Pi 3 Model B+ into another product, the Raspberry Pi foundation has committed to keeping the RPi3B+ in production until at least January 2023. HEAT MANAGEMENT: Due to the BCM2837 now running at 1.4GHz, the RPi3B+, runs relatively warm. The foundation provides the following warning: "This product should be operated in a well-ventilated environment and, if used inside a case, the case should not be covered". Given the optional "open lid configuration" of the official Raspberry Pi case I asked for clarification, and their Director of Product Management came back with: "It only means if you have it in a case the case itself should not then be covered".
- drinchev 9y ago
  > This product should be operated in a well-ventilated environment and, if used inside a case, the case should not be covered Does this make the B+ model more dangerous in case of overheating? I have a couple of Pis running inside official Pi case they hold between 35 - 53 degrees. ( 35 meaning unheated room ). I would be sad if I upgrade the devices and then loose my sleep in case of overheating.
  - akerro 9y ago
    >Does this make the B+ model more dangerous in case of overheating? 3A has similar issue, when it overheats it automatically drops CPU clock to afair 60% of normal until temperature drops down.
    - Aissen 9y ago
      And it's actually covered in the article: https://www.raspberrypi.org/app/uploads/2018/03/sysbench-2.png https://www.raspberrypi.org/app/uploads/2018/03/sysbench-2.p...
- schappim 9y ago
  I wonder why this is getting so many down votes?
locusm 9y ago
+1 for PoE support
- benmcnelly 9y ago
  So many more options now, already have a few ideas in mind.
- cuonic 9y ago
  PoE support has always been available with a seperate PoE Hat [0], I found it to be a strange announcement. 0: https://coolcomponents.co.uk/products/pi-poe-switch-hat-power-over-ethernet-for-raspberry-pi https://coolcomponents.co.uk/products/pi-poe-switch-hat-powe...
  - loxias 9y ago
    I was confused by that too. "You used to require a separate board to use PoE. Now you... still need a separate board to use PoE." Oh well. Also, as possibly the only person left who really doesn't care at all about wireless... I'm glad there's a refresh, sure, but... I'm meh. I've been pxe booting my pi3s for a while now. Now, if it had official "clean" debian support (not "raspian") that would be something!
    - robotmay 9y ago
      Possibly it will make the official PoE board cheaper? The existing one I have, which works rather well actually, cost almost the same as the Pi, which kinda limits its usefulness (when a PSU costs ~£6 max)
  - pi-rat 9y ago
    This is much cleaner[1] though. It seems to just do 48/24v -> 5v via 4 pins. No more ethernet pass-through. [1]: https://www.raspberrypi.org/app/uploads/2018/03/770A6339-1619x1080.jpg https://www.raspberrypi.org/app/uploads/2018/03/770A6339-161...
    - 9y ago
muxator 9y ago
> Here’s a long post. [...] If you don’t have time to read it all, we recommend you watch this video The video is 1 minute long. The article is ~84 lines, ~8 KB of text. Is that really long?
- Benjamin_Dobell 9y ago
  If you're not a native English speaker, I imagine the video may be preferable to the article.
  - Yaggo 9y ago
    Quite the opposite if you learnt English by reading. Text is so much easier to comprehend, you can easily go back and forward, choose your speed, pause, check definitions (the "Look up" dictionary integration in Safari comes handy), etc due to non-linear nature of reading. Irregular English pronouncing rules don't help either.
  - rebolek 9y ago
    I'm not native English speaker and I always prefer text to video, so I don't have to decipher some strange accent. But other people may have different preferences.
  - qalmakka 9y ago
    As a non-native English speaker, I doubt that. In general listening to English is quite complex for someone that has learnt English only from school; listening to a non native language (especially a quirky spelled one like English) requires quite a bit of excercise to fully understand the various accents and how the words pronounced often illogically associate with those words you've learnt from books. I personally found vastly simpler in the beginning to read text instead of listening to a native speaker talking. That's also why captions in movies help a lot someone learning the language.
    - robotmay 9y ago
      I really wish it was easier to find movies in other languages to help learning. I've been half-heartedly trying to learn French the past few years but it's deceptively hard to either find a decent streaming service, or to find torrents with French audio + subtitles. Strangely it was quite easy when I had a stab at Swedish a few years ago; a number of their TV channels have a free streaming service that you can access from anywhere.
api 9y ago
Still Ethernet via USB 2.0, which means it is not actually gigabit.
- dijit 9y ago
  (and taking power away from the CPU). FWIW if you need gigabit you can get it on the (now old) cubietruck 3, which is an excellent SBC and even has a SATA controller.
- chopin 9y ago
  I am using a BananaPi for this. It also has a SATA port which makes it handy for a NAS. Processor and RAM are also a good bang for the buck.
  - FullRetard 9y ago
    What is your experience with platform support (linux) with the BananaPi?
    - chopin 9y ago
      For my purposes, very good. There is a Raspi equivalent image and, afair, a Bananian image. I used the former on my first BananaPi (this runs my NAS). The latter runs a BananaPi I have used as a secondary ADS server (now it serves only as DNS, as I switched all desktops to Linux, see discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16582231 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16582231 as to why). Both run smoothly. EDIT: I should say (that's independent whether you use Raspberry or BananaPi) that both run for months without intervention. The only thing I found to be important is a good power source. I had frequently file system errors due to dying (somewhat cheap) chargers used as power source. I finally got a switched 50W multi charger (10 outlets á 2A) which I connected all Raspis and Bananas to. Since then, everything works pretty smooth.
- poizan42 9y ago
  I also noticed that. It's only ~280 megabits so seems a bit dishonest to call it gigabit. I guess what they mean is "gigabit ethernet standard" i.e. 1000BASE-T. Also how does it act once its internal receive buffer is full? Is it possible to get the sender to slow down, or does it have to start dropping frames? Will important things such as ARP broadcasts and DHCP requests just risk getting lost?
danellis 9y ago
> If you’ve been a Raspberry Pi watcher for a while now, you’ll have a bit of a feel for how we update our products. Model B... Model A... Model B+... When can we expect to see the Raspberry Pi Master and the Raspberry Pi Master Compact?
- majewsky 9y ago
  Raspberry Pi Pro Raspberry Pi Air Retina Raspberry Pi
  - aeleos 9y ago
    Im prepping for Raspberry Pi X
  - linker3000 9y ago
    iPi
- paines 9y ago
  You forgot 3D and Ultra silly! ;)
  - Piskvorrr 9y ago
    They've gone straight to Plaid!
- SmellyGeekBoy 9y ago
  As a Brit who grew up in the 80s / 90s I got the reference, shame it seems to have gone over the heads of some people ;)
  - TheOtherHobbes 9y ago
    No Archipides yet.
    - danellis 9y ago
boris 9y ago
>We use a magjack that supports Power over Ethernet (PoE), and bring the relevant signals to a new 4-pin header. We will shortly launch a PoE HAT which can generate the 5V necessary to power the Raspberry Pi from the 48V PoE supply. This is nice though I personally wish they used the same Silvertel PoE module as Arduino which you just solder onto the board. Plus their PoE hat has a spinning fan.
- michaelt 9y ago
  Plus their PoE hat has a spinning fan. Looks like it's directly above the CPU - might just be to compensate for the worse airflow from the obstruction of the extra board?
  - undersuit 9y ago
    From pictures it looks like the fan would definitely be needed. The hat is very low clearance to maintain compatibility with the official cases. https://blog.hackster.io/the-new-raspberry-pi-poe-hat-823de8a8f5f https://blog.hackster.io/the-new-raspberry-pi-poe-hat-823de8...
- cordite 9y ago
  The video mentioned support for PoE (with a HAT) as a feature. Why would they specifically point out an addon that doesn't come with the board as a feature of the board? PoE HATs already exist apparently, and are quite pricy. But I don't consider Arduino ethernet shields saying arduino comes with ethernet.
mattbierner 9y ago
I’ve been using Pis to stream video from webcams for various experiments and the built-in wireless on the 3 and Zero W was game changing. All the usb WiFi adapters I had tried previously were unreliable or had too much latency. Very excited to try out the improved wireless on this board
- fisian 9y ago
  I did some experiments with MiraCast (using MiracleCast) with the built in wireless on the RPi3. However I ran into several issues (connections not working sometimes; unreliable connections which would stop after a short time). Later I found a forum post which said that these issues could be related to the built-in wireless not correctly supporting WFD. Maybe the RPi3B+ fixes this issue but someone would have to try that.
- mrsteveman1 9y ago
  > the built-in wireless on the 3 and Zero W was game changing Definitely, the Pi Zero W is now my go-to controller for almost anything that needs one. The fact that Microcenter frequently sells them for $5 seals it. I pair them with a $15 aMLC (MLC in SLC mode) industrial MicroSD card[1], and they've been rock solid, no FS corruption on power loss, no Wi-Fi drop outs. The ability to add the Pi Camera board and have a tiny full HD networked camera with trustworthy "firmware" is a killer feature though, pre-made IP cameras at any price tend to have outdated insecure or even malicious firmware that may or may not be replaceable. [1] https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/atp-electronics-inc/AF4GUD3A-OEM/AF4GUD3A-OEM-ND/5361062 https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/atp-electronics-in...
jimmies 9y ago
PXE booting is sweet. I develop an OS (Crankshaft) for the Pi, and a lot of times it just has been waiting to write a new OS to the SD card, waiting, plugging it in, realizing I forgot to do something, so I had to repeat. Each time it was 15 minutes of waiting. Pulling the card out and putting it back in, especially with the ribbon cable on the way (and a case too) has been really painful. PXE boot is going to solve that. So I'm very, very excited for this. In the blog, they mentioned the possibility of having a Pi3A too, so I look forward to that as well. The project I have has not much need for lots of USB ports and ethernet, so having to pay for and power a hub and an ethernet port only add to the power requirements with no added benefit. The Pi3A will be the prime target for me if they release it. The only thing I wish they had is microphone input (we need the mic input for "OK Google") but I don't think it will happen, so that's one more thing on the wish list.
- kingosticks 9y ago
  Didn't they already have pxe support on the Model 3B? This is just a bug fixed version (and enabled by default).
  - Piskvorrr 9y ago
    Yup. It's somewhat nontrivial though: https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberrypi/bootmodes/net_tutorial.md https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberry...
    - kingosticks 9y ago
      That documentation you've linked to is just very thorough, there's not that much to it. U-boot doesn't appear to be much simpler so I don't see the point in it, but maybe I'm missing some extra features it has?
- michaelmior 9y ago
  Why not just use a USB microphone?
qalmakka 9y ago
"Just over two years ago, we released Raspberry Pi 3 Model B. This was our first 64-bit product" Very unfortunate that their in-house developed and promoted OS ("Raspbian") only supports armv7, thus leaving the vast majority that doesn't know about the existence of (or how to use) archlinux ARM an the likes with a 32 bit os. Am I the only one that doesn't get the sense out of this here? Debian supports Aarch64 out of the box I think.
- jimmies 9y ago
  To me, that makes a lot of sense. Having only one architecture to support and one image to rule them all across the product line is quite a great thing to have. The other day, there was a person who had a "reddit gold" bounty for the first person who can help them get the Pi 0 online. The person basically couldn't get the Pi Zero on the wireless network. They had no USB-OTG adapter or mini HDMI adapter they could use to debug the Pi Zero. I was thinking something along the line of making the Pi USB port a USB-serial gadget, but it was still cumbersome. The "accepted solution" was to pull out the SD card for the Zero, put it into a Pi3B they had, get the 3B online, and put it back to the Zero. I think that was such a brilliant idea. Making it easy for users to achieve such tasks is often overlooked by us who "know too much" to not care about the efficiency of the new hardware. I don't think it was an accident that the Pi is so ubiquitous in education: They made a lot of right decisions to make their product easy to use.
  - qalmakka 9y ago
    Yes, but then promoting the Raspberry Pi as "64 bit product" seems almost gimmicky to me. Ok, you switched to an AArch64 chip, but that was simply because it's what your supplier was producing at that time. It makes no sense to me to promote a feature you don't support or make use of, if not for simple and pure marketing reasons.
    - yipbub 9y ago
      That there are other OSes that do support it mean that it is a feature.
DoubleMalt 9y ago
2GB of RAM would've been more important to me than all the listed changes.
- boris 9y ago
  Or even 4G. Would be nice to have a high-memory variant especially seeing that that would require zero changes in the OS unlike most othet hardware variations.
  - AdrianoKF 9y ago
    As far as I can remember, the system-on-chip architecture limits the maximum amount of RAM to 1 GB (I'll try and find an official source, it's probably somewhere in the BCM283x peripherals documentation). Not to say Broadcom couldn't spin a newer revision of the SoC with a different internal architecture, but for now it seems that >1 GB of RAM would require substantially more effort than just swapping the DRAM module on the board.
    - boris 9y ago
      Right, RAM is part of the SoC... that probably makes the idea pretty much a no-go.
      - AdrianoKF 9y ago
        The RAM was only integrated on the SoC on earlier models (called a package-on-package, PoP -- see https://elinux.org/RPi_Hardware#Components https://elinux.org/RPi_Hardware#Components) Later versions (I think starting with RPi 2) have a separate DRAM chip on the bottom side of the PCB.
- gambiting 9y ago
  For this(and other) reason, the Asus Tinker Board looks like the superior choice, for very little more money than the Pi3: https://www.asus.com/uk/Single-Board-Computer/Tinker-Board/ https://www.asus.com/uk/Single-Board-Computer/Tinker-Board/
NKosmatos 9y ago
A new Pi released on Pi-day, how fitting. Instead if "Pi 3 Model B+" they should have named it just "Pi 3.14" :-)
- yipbub 9y ago
  You can simplify that to Pi^2
  - zdkl 9y ago
    Call up Pypy, there's a marketing opportunity for next year.
    - dordoka 9y ago
      Already taken! https://pypy.org/ https://pypy.org/
stdcall83 9y ago
Gigabit ethernet over usb 2? Will never reach gigabit speeds...
- ptman 9y ago
  True, but still faster than 100Mbps, which can be nice
  - Tepix 9y ago
    You can already get more than 100Mbps out of a Raspberry Pi using a USB Link cable (aka Windows Transfer cable). They are less than $5 online and you get around 160Mbps on a Raspberry Pi 1 (haven't tried it on y Raspberry Pi 3 yet).
    - kingosticks 9y ago
      You can also use a gigabit USB adaptor to get the same ~300mbps speeds as the 3 B+ now enjoys.
- masklinn 9y ago
  No but it still triples the bandwidth over 10/100 over USB.
  - megous 9y ago
    Only if you will not use USB for anything else.
- Jedd 9y ago
  They talk about this in the video (at 4'54") -- saying they try to avoid the g-word, calling it 'Faster Ethernet', and in practice you'll get 200-300Mbps.
- xienze 9y ago
  Disappointed that there still isn't a dedicated Ethernet controller. I would rather have that at 100Mbps than "gigabit" over USB.
Narishma 9y ago
Why was the title changed? It's misleading right now since there's already a Raspberry Pi Model B+ available for ages. Should be "New Raspberry Pi 3 Model B+" just like on the blog post.
- giancarlostoro 9y ago
  It is. See here: https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/ https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/ Edit: Didn't realize you meant the title.
  - SifJar 9y ago
    Parent comment means the HN title should include the "3" which (as of now) it does not
- DanBC 9y ago
  It's normally better to email the mods, because I don't think they see these comments.
  - yorby 9y ago
    just report the comment... they are really quick then
- nikofeyn 9y ago
  in general, i find the aggressive title changing on hacker news confusing. it’s been happening a lot recently where i can’t find a post by eye where i know i knew the title or where the title was changed away from the exact title of the linked post or article.
  - petercooper 9y ago
    In another sense it's quite beautiful though, it encourages me to visit more frequently before the titles begin to decay into things I wouldn't click on.
  - 9y ago
cashy 9y ago
Happy kodi server update day
- Tepix 9y ago
  Amlogic S905X boxes are the better choice for Kodi these days. You can installi LibreElec, they are cheaper than a Raspberry Pi 3 and they support 4K & HDR and have hardware acceleration for H.265 (HEVC) and VP9.
  - petecooper 9y ago
    I've never been entirely comfortable with these HTPC boxes with factory-issued OS, especially connecting to a local network. Do you have any advice or feedback on Amlogic S905X-based boxes that can have the OS flashed to something more generic (Debian-based, ideally)? Thanks!
    - tonylemesmer 9y ago
      posted elsewhere on this thread: https://libre.computer/2017/12/03/performance-and-power-consumption-comparison-for-aml-s905x-cc-le-potato-and-raspberry-pi-3-model-b/ https://libre.computer/2017/12/03/performance-and-power-cons...
    - Tepix 9y ago
      Yes. The box comes with Android 6 on it and you replace it with LibreElec. I think they all work with LibreElec these days - no guarantees!
  - arbitrage 9y ago
    The also cost almost twice as much, and don't have the ecosystem/community support around them that the pi has.
    - Tepix 9y ago
      No, I paid 23€ for an S905X with 1GB RAM 8 GB Flash. The Raspberry Pi 3 that it replaced still costs more than 30€ (and it has 0GB flash). I agree about the ecosystem. As long as you just want to use it as a mediacenter all you care about is that LibreElec with Kodi works well.
antirez 9y ago
A bit worried by the increased power usage for certain applications. For instance I used to power my PI with a cell phone battery pack without any trouble.
- mcjiggerlog 9y ago
  Those models still exist, along with the even lower powered pi zero.
  - arbitrage 9y ago
    You can also adjust the CPU power and timing frequencies to underclock your pi for better battery life.
- VladTheImplier 9y ago
  There are great guides on how to lower power consumption by turning HDMI off, under clocking, even going as far as turning off the status LEDs. Killing off many of the autostarting services in raspbian or not using raspbian in the first place can also help quite a bit due to peak current draw during boot time. If you don't need networking you can easily get down to almost 10s boot time by disabling networking daemons and dependencies. Made a project in optics with the pi zero w, camera v2, a touchscreen over GPIO, 4 bright LEDs and a 5V regulator. As a power source it uses a 9€ 1200mha LithiumIon Battery in 9V battery form. Lives on for 3 hours under full load. Also using normal 9V batteries I killed them in 5mins - something something internal resistance of non LithiumIon batteries not coping with high current draw.
r_singh 9y ago
I'm a big fan of the Raspberry Pi community in general and have used it for multiple applications over the years; most recently as a media center TV box. However, the hardware now feels old and I wish for more of an update from the Pi foundation. If anyone hear is looking for a true upgrade on the Pi, try the ODROID C2, it's years ahead of the Pi in terms of performance.
- ekianjo 9y ago
  The XU4 from Odroid is even better than the C2. There is virtually no reason to get the C2 now.
  - r_singh 9y ago
    I agree, the XU4 is way better than the C2. > There is virtually no reason to get the C2 now I disagree with this though. The price difference between the two isn't insignificant. If someone intends to deploy hundreds of devices for an IoT application the price difference between the 2 would be one of the reasons to choose the C2; the other reasons would be size and heating problems.
    - ekianjo 9y ago
      fair point. I was considering the case of a single user.
- tonylemesmer 9y ago
  Lots of people say there are superior devices - however the community size and support for Raspberry Pi cannot be overstated. The price of an Odroid XU4 is significantly proportionally higher and I have no guarantee that certain features or projects are feasible on it. First result from Dec 2017 when searching for "XU4 Kodi" is someone having a problem installing and then saying "I would prefer a version with long term support and wide use base." Well my answer to that is RPi. I'm merely implying that RPi has a higher chance of certain things working simply because its more popular. I'm not disputing that there are higher performance platforms for "similar" money but it's reliability and a little more certainty that some people are after. I would love to try one of the ODROID devices, I simply don't have the time. And I love seeing suggestions for these other devices so please don't stop posting them :)
znpy 9y ago
No full gigabit ethernet :(
matthberg 9y ago
Power over Ethernet is terrific, this means only one cord is now needed for a fully functioning pi (assuming you have the proper Ethernet setup on the other end).
- cuonic 9y ago
  But PoE isn't actually built-in to the Pi, it requires an external hat, purchased separately, and using a PoE hat has been possible on previous versions, yet they decided to announce it now, it's confusing.
  - fredoliveira 9y ago
    They are not announcing PoE now. It is listed next to this particular model's features. The new/updated functionality is even bold (and power over ethernet is not).
    - cuonic 9y ago
      I'm aware of the fact, it was just strange how they announced it in the video [0], as if it was a new feature. PoE has been possible on previous versions with a PoE hat aswell, so nothing really new. 0: https://youtu.be/i62xdD4QKtA?t=44 https://youtu.be/i62xdD4QKtA?t=44
      - ThatPlayer 9y ago
        Weren't previous PoE hats just ethernet splitters that also had a 5V output to the Pi rails, but still required another Ethernet cable to connect to the Pi's actual Ethernet port?
        gruturo 9y ago
        Funny thing is you don't even need a HAT, there are passthrough extractors and they're cheap (30 bucks for a pack of 4): https://www.amazon.com/ANVISION-Splitter-Adapter-Compliant-Raspberry/dp/B079D99Y3Y https://www.amazon.com/ANVISION-Splitter-Adapter-Compliant-R... Let's see how much the official PoE HAT is, but it better be cheap or I know what I'll be buying (more of)
Yaggo 9y ago
I wish they would finally expose the data lines for the second camera in their "hobbyist" boards as well. Currently the dual camera setup is supported only by Compute Module, but it's cumbersome to use because the bulky I/O board (and expensive). The foundation is overlooking the most unique feature of the Broadcom chipset, the 3D video support. They already have implemented the software/driver side, so only thing required is just exposing the pins from the SOC and adding second camera connector – very low hanging fruit. (The Zero board may not have enough space for routing but the bigger boards definitely have.)
- titchard 9y ago
  That is interesting, I didn't even know that was a feature that was capped on the RPi. I can see that being made into very compact 3D Scanners very quickly after launch if that was added as a feature.
  - Yaggo 9y ago
    To clarify, the "3D video feature" is nothing more than being able to record simultaneously from two cameras and merge the video inputs into side-by-side H264 stream. Combined with hardware H264 encoding with delay of ~100 ms, this is very useful for certain applications (in my case, live 3D video broadcasting from UAV). I'm not aware of any other "tinkerer-friendly" board capable of that.
    - imtringued 9y ago
      The hardware accelleration for H264 sounds interesting. Although 100ms is not as ideal as I want but it's reasonable. Is it actually possible to use this feature in practice? Are proprietary drivers an issue? Also is it possible to browse the web and e.g. watch videos on youtube with adequate performance on an RPi? (different topic)
      - Yaggo 9y ago
        > Is it actually possible to use this feature in practice? Are proprietary drivers an issue? I've streamed 3D video over wifibroadcast¹ to OSVR headset, no fundamental issues. The exact lag depends on resolution, fps, etc settings. It would be superb to cut the delay to sub-50 ms range, but that's probably not going to happen as it would require major rewrite of the H264 stack, as currently there are always two full frames in the pipeline, e.g. in 30 fps it makes 1000/30*2 -> ~70 ms delay². (Note that I'm not the author of the befinitiv website.) The foundation has released open-source driver stack³ (raspivid etc), but AFAIK they have rather limited resources for software development (single ex-broadcom developer?) and limited access to proprietary features (documentation?) of the Broadcom chipset. Many things work but I think the capabilities of the SOC aren't yet fully utilized. > Also is it possible to browse the web and e.g. watch videos on youtube with adequate performance on an RPi? (different topic) No personal experience, but RPi 3 should be okayish for lightweight desktop use (YMMV) with 1 GB of RAM being main limitation for multitasking. [1] https://befinitiv.wordpress.com/wifibroadcast-analog-like-transmission-of-live-video-data/ https://befinitiv.wordpress.com/wifibroadcast-analog-like-tr... [2] https://befinitiv.wordpress.com/2015/09/10/latency-analysis-of-the-raspberry-camera/ https://befinitiv.wordpress.com/2015/09/10/latency-analysis-... [3] https://github.com/raspberrypi/userland https://github.com/raspberrypi/userland
ISNIT 9y ago
I'm looking forward for the Pi 3 Model B+Xv2.0
SlowBro 9y ago
I'm still waiting for an inexpensive Linux board with proper sleep support. Suspend, hibernate, etc., and come back within milliseconds instead of dozens of seconds, and under $30 USD.
bdz 9y ago
I'd really want to see a benchmark between this and Odroid C2
m-p-3 9y ago
They should have called it the Raspberry Pi 3.14, considering which day it is ;)
dwheeler 9y ago
This is a nice minor upgrade, good job. That said, I'd love to see a new model with more memory. That would require Broadcom (or some other organization) to develop a revised SoC that supported more control pins, but in a large sense that's a small change, and memory is cheap enough that adding some more memory wouldn't significantly change the price. But it would greatly extend what software the Pi can usefully run. Most software developers don't care very much about memory size, leading to bloat in size. As a result, the little memory limits what applications the current Raspberry Pi can use, including many programs useful for education. I wish them luck!
- digi_owl 9y ago
  Or perhaps some kind of storage connectivity beyond USB.
digi_owl 9y ago
Reminds me that i have a 3B sitting around that i have yet to do anything with.
sp0ck 9y ago
What I'm missing is on board flash. Even 512MB would be such useful for many usage scenarios to put OS there. SD cards are biggest source of problems on long run RPi's without some tweaking. There are almost none SBC with built in flash (BeagleBone is shiny exception).
- tssva 9y ago
  It doesn't exactly fill the same niches as the regular RPi but the RPi Compute Module 3 does have 4G of emmc builtin. You can get a compute module and breakout board for $136 on Amazon.
- floatboth 9y ago
  Most Pine64 boards (including ROCK64) have a little SPI flash chip you can flash U-boot to, and a socket for little eMMC modules.
wbsun 9y ago
Feel like RPi is heading to a commercial upgrade direction: more cores, higher frequency, faster processors, faster networks, etc. Wasn't RPi originally designed to teach programming and to make a hackable gadget? With that goal, I think a simple (and therefore maybe low performance) system is easier to learn and to hack than more and more fancy and complex architecture. From that perspective, BBC Micro bit is doing the right thing IMO.
- flyinghamster 9y ago
  Why not upgrade it, though? Keeping it a system for teaching/hacking while improving performance is a win-win, as far as I'm concerned. For commercial applications, I'd think the Compute Module would be a better bet.
Slansitartop 9y ago
> 1GB LPDDR2 SDRAM When are they going to upgrade the memory? All of that is nice, but what I've really wanted is one with at least 3-4GB.
- floatboth 9y ago
  When Broadcom has a less shitty SoC for them…
ChuckMcM 9y ago
I am always impressed at how people can buy a fully functional computer for $35. That said, as an engineer I often cringe at the compromises made. Like "Gigabit Ethernet over USB 2.0". Since the top bit rate of USB2.0 is 480Mbps and GbE is 1250Mbps, USB 2 only has about 1/3 the bit rate to support it. Now it will be faster than 10/100 ethernet connections but don't expect to send a 100 megabytes/second through it.
- dtparr 9y ago
  So, to be fair, they both refer to it as 'faster ethernet' to try to distinguish it from 'full Gigabit' and say explicitly in the post: > While the USB 2.0 connection to the application processor limits the available bandwidth, we still see roughly a threefold increase in throughput compared to Raspberry Pi 3B. And then show that they're typically seeing 314Mbps for TX/RX in iperf.
- Hello71 9y ago
  wait, since when can gigabit ethernet transmit more than a gigabit per second?
  - jwbensley 9y ago
    Are you referring to this? "GbE is 1250Mbps" 1.25Gbps is the "gross" bit rate for 1000BASE-T Ethernet. This is because it uses 8b/10b encoding on the wire (meaning there is a 25% overhead): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8b/10b_encoding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8b/10b_encoding 1000Mbps is essentially the "net" bit rate available to the Ethernet protocol.
    - ChuckMcM 9y ago
      exactly right. Different standards claim different things, but ethernet tries to do the "right" thing and have the number in the name be the actual number of bits per second you get through the thing. Unlike say serial ports where 9600 bits per second isn't 1200 8 bit bytes per second, its only 960 8 bit bytes per second because of a start bit and stop bit. This can be even worse on serial protocols with forward error correction where up to a third of the bits going across the wire are for error correction and/or clock recovery.
filleokus 9y ago
I'm always so impressed with the supply chain of the Raspberry PI foundation. I woke up today, saw the HN story, and during lunch went to a local store and picked one up. I live in a small-ish town in Sweden. I know it's not like a iPhone release or whatever, but still impressive that they manage to get it out to my local store on release day.

468 points by nnnnnick 9y ago

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

TL;DR: The Raspberry Pi 3 Model B+ is a nice update that provides, better networking with WiFi now 802.11.b/g/n/ac, Bluetooth 4.2/BLE and Gigabit Ethernet (although limited to 300Mbps). For Makers, the Raspberry Pi Foundation has made it easier to incorporate the RPi3B+ into end products keeping the RPi3B+ in production until at least January 2023 and providing "modular compliance certification" for the wireless module. Source: https://raspberry.piaustralia.com.au/blog/new-raspberry-pi-3-model-b/ https://raspberry.piaustralia.com.au/blog/new-raspberry-pi-3... WHAT IS THE SAME: ----------------- - Same mechanical footprint as both the Raspberry Pi 2 Model B and the Raspberry Pi 3 Model B. - Same GPIO pinout, so no need to change your hats/shields/daughter boards - Same power supply recommended (5V/2.5A DC via micro USB connector) - Broadcom BCM2837B0, Cortex-A53 64-bit SoC (System on a Chip), but this time clocked to 1.4GHz, which yields roughly a 10% performance increase over the Raspberry Pi 3 Model B. The chip now has a metallic heatsink and bears the markings BCM2837B0 1FSBG, TA1738 P20 W39-01 N2 W. WHAT IS NEW: ------------ WIRELESS MODULE: The product briefing document from the foundation states that the onboard wireless module now supports dual-band 2.4GHz/5GHz IEEE 802.11ac and both Bluetooth 4.2 and BLE (Bluetooth Low Energy). The wireless module in the RPi3B+ is not mentioned in the product briefing document and is hidden under shielding. Prying open the shielding revealed a Cyprus Wireless CYW43455 (datasheet). - The CYW43455 supports the following WiFI standards: 802.11ac/n/a/b/g/d/h/i - Security: (WEP/ WPA Personal / WPA2 Personal / WMM /WMM-PS (U-APSD) /WMM-SA / AES (hardware accelerator) /TKIP (hardware accelerator) / CKIP (software support) - Proprietary protocols (CCXv2, CCXv3, CCXv4, CCXv5, WFAEC - IEEE 802.15.2 Coexistence Compliance (on-silicon solution compliant with IEEE 3-wire requirements) - The CYW43455 supports the following future IEEE drafts/standards: 802.11r (fast roaming between APs), 802.11w (secure management frames), 802.11 Extensions:, 802.11e QoS Enhancements (as per the WMM specification is already supported), 802.11h 5 GHz Extensions, 802.11i MAC Enhancements, 802.11k Radio Resource Measurement The CYW43455 data sheet states that the Bluetooth core supports: - Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR - Bluetooth 3.0 - Bluetooth 4.2 (Bluetooth Low Energy) The Wireless LAN module now has "modular compliance certification", which allows the board to be designed into end products with significantly reduced wireless LAN compliance testing, improving both cost and time to market. NEW GIGABIT ETHERNET: The new RPi3B+ has support for Gigabit Ethernet using Microchip's LAN7515 (which is a USB 2.0 to 10/100/1000 Ethernet Bridge with 4-port USB 2.0 Hub). The LAN7515 supports a max number of 6 downstream USB ports and 1 Ethernet Port limited to a maximum throughput of 300 Mbps. The LAN7515's ethernet controller supports numerous power management wakeup features, including Magic Packet™, Wake-on LAN (WOL) and Link Status Change. POWER: The RPi3B+ is Power over Ethernet (PoE)–enabled, but requires the purchasing of a separate PoE HAT. PRODUCTION LIFETIME: If you're thinking of incorporating the Raspberry Pi 3 Model B+ into another product, the Raspberry Pi foundation has committed to keeping the RPi3B+ in production until at least January 2023. HEAT MANAGEMENT: Due to the BCM2837 now running at 1.4GHz, the RPi3B+, runs relatively warm. The foundation provides the following warning: "This product should be operated in a well-ventilated environment and, if used inside a case, the case should not be covered". Given the optional "open lid configuration" of the official Raspberry Pi case I asked for clarification, and their Director of Product Management came back with: "It only means if you have it in a case the case itself should not then be covered".

drinchev 9y ago
> This product should be operated in a well-ventilated environment and, if used inside a case, the case should not be covered Does this make the B+ model more dangerous in case of overheating? I have a couple of Pis running inside official Pi case they hold between 35 - 53 degrees. ( 35 meaning unheated room ). I would be sad if I upgrade the devices and then loose my sleep in case of overheating.
- akerro 9y ago
  >Does this make the B+ model more dangerous in case of overheating? 3A has similar issue, when it overheats it automatically drops CPU clock to afair 60% of normal until temperature drops down.
  - Aissen 9y ago
    And it's actually covered in the article: https://www.raspberrypi.org/app/uploads/2018/03/sysbench-2.png https://www.raspberrypi.org/app/uploads/2018/03/sysbench-2.p...
schappim 9y ago
I wonder why this is getting so many down votes?

locusm 9y ago

+1 for PoE support

benmcnelly 9y ago
So many more options now, already have a few ideas in mind.
cuonic 9y ago
PoE support has always been available with a seperate PoE Hat [0], I found it to be a strange announcement. 0: https://coolcomponents.co.uk/products/pi-poe-switch-hat-power-over-ethernet-for-raspberry-pi https://coolcomponents.co.uk/products/pi-poe-switch-hat-powe...
- loxias 9y ago
  I was confused by that too. "You used to require a separate board to use PoE. Now you... still need a separate board to use PoE." Oh well. Also, as possibly the only person left who really doesn't care at all about wireless... I'm glad there's a refresh, sure, but... I'm meh. I've been pxe booting my pi3s for a while now. Now, if it had official "clean" debian support (not "raspian") that would be something!
  - robotmay 9y ago
    Possibly it will make the official PoE board cheaper? The existing one I have, which works rather well actually, cost almost the same as the Pi, which kinda limits its usefulness (when a PSU costs ~£6 max)
- pi-rat 9y ago
  This is much cleaner[1] though. It seems to just do 48/24v -> 5v via 4 pins. No more ethernet pass-through. [1]: https://www.raspberrypi.org/app/uploads/2018/03/770A6339-1619x1080.jpg https://www.raspberrypi.org/app/uploads/2018/03/770A6339-161...
  - 9y ago

muxator 9y ago

> Here’s a long post. [...] If you don’t have time to read it all, we recommend you watch this video The video is 1 minute long. The article is ~84 lines, ~8 KB of text. Is that really long?

Benjamin_Dobell 9y ago
If you're not a native English speaker, I imagine the video may be preferable to the article.
- Yaggo 9y ago
  Quite the opposite if you learnt English by reading. Text is so much easier to comprehend, you can easily go back and forward, choose your speed, pause, check definitions (the "Look up" dictionary integration in Safari comes handy), etc due to non-linear nature of reading. Irregular English pronouncing rules don't help either.
- rebolek 9y ago
  I'm not native English speaker and I always prefer text to video, so I don't have to decipher some strange accent. But other people may have different preferences.
- qalmakka 9y ago
  As a non-native English speaker, I doubt that. In general listening to English is quite complex for someone that has learnt English only from school; listening to a non native language (especially a quirky spelled one like English) requires quite a bit of excercise to fully understand the various accents and how the words pronounced often illogically associate with those words you've learnt from books. I personally found vastly simpler in the beginning to read text instead of listening to a native speaker talking. That's also why captions in movies help a lot someone learning the language.
  - robotmay 9y ago
    I really wish it was easier to find movies in other languages to help learning. I've been half-heartedly trying to learn French the past few years but it's deceptively hard to either find a decent streaming service, or to find torrents with French audio + subtitles. Strangely it was quite easy when I had a stab at Swedish a few years ago; a number of their TV channels have a free streaming service that you can access from anywhere.

api 9y ago

Still Ethernet via USB 2.0, which means it is not actually gigabit.

dijit 9y ago
(and taking power away from the CPU). FWIW if you need gigabit you can get it on the (now old) cubietruck 3, which is an excellent SBC and even has a SATA controller.
chopin 9y ago
I am using a BananaPi for this. It also has a SATA port which makes it handy for a NAS. Processor and RAM are also a good bang for the buck.
- FullRetard 9y ago
  What is your experience with platform support (linux) with the BananaPi?
  - chopin 9y ago
    For my purposes, very good. There is a Raspi equivalent image and, afair, a Bananian image. I used the former on my first BananaPi (this runs my NAS). The latter runs a BananaPi I have used as a secondary ADS server (now it serves only as DNS, as I switched all desktops to Linux, see discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16582231 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16582231 as to why). Both run smoothly. EDIT: I should say (that's independent whether you use Raspberry or BananaPi) that both run for months without intervention. The only thing I found to be important is a good power source. I had frequently file system errors due to dying (somewhat cheap) chargers used as power source. I finally got a switched 50W multi charger (10 outlets á 2A) which I connected all Raspis and Bananas to. Since then, everything works pretty smooth.
poizan42 9y ago
I also noticed that. It's only ~280 megabits so seems a bit dishonest to call it gigabit. I guess what they mean is "gigabit ethernet standard" i.e. 1000BASE-T. Also how does it act once its internal receive buffer is full? Is it possible to get the sender to slow down, or does it have to start dropping frames? Will important things such as ARP broadcasts and DHCP requests just risk getting lost?

danellis 9y ago

> If you’ve been a Raspberry Pi watcher for a while now, you’ll have a bit of a feel for how we update our products. Model B... Model A... Model B+... When can we expect to see the Raspberry Pi Master and the Raspberry Pi Master Compact?

majewsky 9y ago
Raspberry Pi Pro Raspberry Pi Air Retina Raspberry Pi
- aeleos 9y ago
  Im prepping for Raspberry Pi X
- linker3000 9y ago
  iPi
paines 9y ago
You forgot 3D and Ultra silly! ;)
- Piskvorrr 9y ago
  They've gone straight to Plaid!
SmellyGeekBoy 9y ago
As a Brit who grew up in the 80s / 90s I got the reference, shame it seems to have gone over the heads of some people ;)
- TheOtherHobbes 9y ago
  No Archipides yet.
  - danellis 9y ago

boris 9y ago

>We use a magjack that supports Power over Ethernet (PoE), and bring the relevant signals to a new 4-pin header. We will shortly launch a PoE HAT which can generate the 5V necessary to power the Raspberry Pi from the 48V PoE supply. This is nice though I personally wish they used the same Silvertel PoE module as Arduino which you just solder onto the board. Plus their PoE hat has a spinning fan.

michaelt 9y ago
Plus their PoE hat has a spinning fan. Looks like it's directly above the CPU - might just be to compensate for the worse airflow from the obstruction of the extra board?
- undersuit 9y ago
  From pictures it looks like the fan would definitely be needed. The hat is very low clearance to maintain compatibility with the official cases. https://blog.hackster.io/the-new-raspberry-pi-poe-hat-823de8a8f5f https://blog.hackster.io/the-new-raspberry-pi-poe-hat-823de8...
cordite 9y ago
The video mentioned support for PoE (with a HAT) as a feature. Why would they specifically point out an addon that doesn't come with the board as a feature of the board? PoE HATs already exist apparently, and are quite pricy. But I don't consider Arduino ethernet shields saying arduino comes with ethernet.

mattbierner 9y ago

I’ve been using Pis to stream video from webcams for various experiments and the built-in wireless on the 3 and Zero W was game changing. All the usb WiFi adapters I had tried previously were unreliable or had too much latency. Very excited to try out the improved wireless on this board

fisian 9y ago
I did some experiments with MiraCast (using MiracleCast) with the built in wireless on the RPi3. However I ran into several issues (connections not working sometimes; unreliable connections which would stop after a short time). Later I found a forum post which said that these issues could be related to the built-in wireless not correctly supporting WFD. Maybe the RPi3B+ fixes this issue but someone would have to try that.
mrsteveman1 9y ago
> the built-in wireless on the 3 and Zero W was game changing Definitely, the Pi Zero W is now my go-to controller for almost anything that needs one. The fact that Microcenter frequently sells them for $5 seals it. I pair them with a $15 aMLC (MLC in SLC mode) industrial MicroSD card[1], and they've been rock solid, no FS corruption on power loss, no Wi-Fi drop outs. The ability to add the Pi Camera board and have a tiny full HD networked camera with trustworthy "firmware" is a killer feature though, pre-made IP cameras at any price tend to have outdated insecure or even malicious firmware that may or may not be replaceable. [1] https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/atp-electronics-inc/AF4GUD3A-OEM/AF4GUD3A-OEM-ND/5361062 https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/atp-electronics-in...

jimmies 9y ago

PXE booting is sweet. I develop an OS (Crankshaft) for the Pi, and a lot of times it just has been waiting to write a new OS to the SD card, waiting, plugging it in, realizing I forgot to do something, so I had to repeat. Each time it was 15 minutes of waiting. Pulling the card out and putting it back in, especially with the ribbon cable on the way (and a case too) has been really painful. PXE boot is going to solve that. So I'm very, very excited for this. In the blog, they mentioned the possibility of having a Pi3A too, so I look forward to that as well. The project I have has not much need for lots of USB ports and ethernet, so having to pay for and power a hub and an ethernet port only add to the power requirements with no added benefit. The Pi3A will be the prime target for me if they release it. The only thing I wish they had is microphone input (we need the mic input for "OK Google") but I don't think it will happen, so that's one more thing on the wish list.

kingosticks 9y ago
Didn't they already have pxe support on the Model 3B? This is just a bug fixed version (and enabled by default).
- Piskvorrr 9y ago
  Yup. It's somewhat nontrivial though: https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberrypi/bootmodes/net_tutorial.md https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberry...
  - kingosticks 9y ago
    That documentation you've linked to is just very thorough, there's not that much to it. U-boot doesn't appear to be much simpler so I don't see the point in it, but maybe I'm missing some extra features it has?
michaelmior 9y ago
Why not just use a USB microphone?

qalmakka 9y ago

"Just over two years ago, we released Raspberry Pi 3 Model B. This was our first 64-bit product" Very unfortunate that their in-house developed and promoted OS ("Raspbian") only supports armv7, thus leaving the vast majority that doesn't know about the existence of (or how to use) archlinux ARM an the likes with a 32 bit os. Am I the only one that doesn't get the sense out of this here? Debian supports Aarch64 out of the box I think.

jimmies 9y ago
To me, that makes a lot of sense. Having only one architecture to support and one image to rule them all across the product line is quite a great thing to have. The other day, there was a person who had a "reddit gold" bounty for the first person who can help them get the Pi 0 online. The person basically couldn't get the Pi Zero on the wireless network. They had no USB-OTG adapter or mini HDMI adapter they could use to debug the Pi Zero. I was thinking something along the line of making the Pi USB port a USB-serial gadget, but it was still cumbersome. The "accepted solution" was to pull out the SD card for the Zero, put it into a Pi3B they had, get the 3B online, and put it back to the Zero. I think that was such a brilliant idea. Making it easy for users to achieve such tasks is often overlooked by us who "know too much" to not care about the efficiency of the new hardware. I don't think it was an accident that the Pi is so ubiquitous in education: They made a lot of right decisions to make their product easy to use.
- qalmakka 9y ago
  Yes, but then promoting the Raspberry Pi as "64 bit product" seems almost gimmicky to me. Ok, you switched to an AArch64 chip, but that was simply because it's what your supplier was producing at that time. It makes no sense to me to promote a feature you don't support or make use of, if not for simple and pure marketing reasons.
  - yipbub 9y ago
    That there are other OSes that do support it mean that it is a feature.

DoubleMalt 9y ago

2GB of RAM would've been more important to me than all the listed changes.

boris 9y ago
Or even 4G. Would be nice to have a high-memory variant especially seeing that that would require zero changes in the OS unlike most othet hardware variations.
- AdrianoKF 9y ago
  As far as I can remember, the system-on-chip architecture limits the maximum amount of RAM to 1 GB (I'll try and find an official source, it's probably somewhere in the BCM283x peripherals documentation). Not to say Broadcom couldn't spin a newer revision of the SoC with a different internal architecture, but for now it seems that >1 GB of RAM would require substantially more effort than just swapping the DRAM module on the board.
  - boris 9y ago
    Right, RAM is part of the SoC... that probably makes the idea pretty much a no-go.
    - AdrianoKF 9y ago
      The RAM was only integrated on the SoC on earlier models (called a package-on-package, PoP -- see https://elinux.org/RPi_Hardware#Components https://elinux.org/RPi_Hardware#Components) Later versions (I think starting with RPi 2) have a separate DRAM chip on the bottom side of the PCB.
gambiting 9y ago
For this(and other) reason, the Asus Tinker Board looks like the superior choice, for very little more money than the Pi3: https://www.asus.com/uk/Single-Board-Computer/Tinker-Board/ https://www.asus.com/uk/Single-Board-Computer/Tinker-Board/

NKosmatos 9y ago

A new Pi released on Pi-day, how fitting. Instead if "Pi 3 Model B+" they should have named it just "Pi 3.14" :-)

yipbub 9y ago
You can simplify that to Pi^2
- zdkl 9y ago
  Call up Pypy, there's a marketing opportunity for next year.
  - dordoka 9y ago
    Already taken! https://pypy.org/ https://pypy.org/

stdcall83 9y ago

Gigabit ethernet over usb 2? Will never reach gigabit speeds...

ptman 9y ago
True, but still faster than 100Mbps, which can be nice
- Tepix 9y ago
  You can already get more than 100Mbps out of a Raspberry Pi using a USB Link cable (aka Windows Transfer cable). They are less than $5 online and you get around 160Mbps on a Raspberry Pi 1 (haven't tried it on y Raspberry Pi 3 yet).
  - kingosticks 9y ago
    You can also use a gigabit USB adaptor to get the same ~300mbps speeds as the 3 B+ now enjoys.
masklinn 9y ago
No but it still triples the bandwidth over 10/100 over USB.
- megous 9y ago
  Only if you will not use USB for anything else.
Jedd 9y ago
They talk about this in the video (at 4'54") -- saying they try to avoid the g-word, calling it 'Faster Ethernet', and in practice you'll get 200-300Mbps.
xienze 9y ago
Disappointed that there still isn't a dedicated Ethernet controller. I would rather have that at 100Mbps than "gigabit" over USB.

Narishma 9y ago

Why was the title changed? It's misleading right now since there's already a Raspberry Pi Model B+ available for ages. Should be "New Raspberry Pi 3 Model B+" just like on the blog post.

giancarlostoro 9y ago
It is. See here: https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/ https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/ Edit: Didn't realize you meant the title.
- SifJar 9y ago
  Parent comment means the HN title should include the "3" which (as of now) it does not
DanBC 9y ago
It's normally better to email the mods, because I don't think they see these comments.
- yorby 9y ago
  just report the comment... they are really quick then
nikofeyn 9y ago
in general, i find the aggressive title changing on hacker news confusing. it’s been happening a lot recently where i can’t find a post by eye where i know i knew the title or where the title was changed away from the exact title of the linked post or article.
- petercooper 9y ago
  In another sense it's quite beautiful though, it encourages me to visit more frequently before the titles begin to decay into things I wouldn't click on.
- 9y ago

cashy 9y ago

Happy kodi server update day

Tepix 9y ago
Amlogic S905X boxes are the better choice for Kodi these days. You can installi LibreElec, they are cheaper than a Raspberry Pi 3 and they support 4K & HDR and have hardware acceleration for H.265 (HEVC) and VP9.
- petecooper 9y ago
  I've never been entirely comfortable with these HTPC boxes with factory-issued OS, especially connecting to a local network. Do you have any advice or feedback on Amlogic S905X-based boxes that can have the OS flashed to something more generic (Debian-based, ideally)? Thanks!
  - tonylemesmer 9y ago
    posted elsewhere on this thread: https://libre.computer/2017/12/03/performance-and-power-consumption-comparison-for-aml-s905x-cc-le-potato-and-raspberry-pi-3-model-b/ https://libre.computer/2017/12/03/performance-and-power-cons...
  - Tepix 9y ago
    Yes. The box comes with Android 6 on it and you replace it with LibreElec. I think they all work with LibreElec these days - no guarantees!
- arbitrage 9y ago
  The also cost almost twice as much, and don't have the ecosystem/community support around them that the pi has.
  - Tepix 9y ago
    No, I paid 23€ for an S905X with 1GB RAM 8 GB Flash. The Raspberry Pi 3 that it replaced still costs more than 30€ (and it has 0GB flash). I agree about the ecosystem. As long as you just want to use it as a mediacenter all you care about is that LibreElec with Kodi works well.

antirez 9y ago

A bit worried by the increased power usage for certain applications. For instance I used to power my PI with a cell phone battery pack without any trouble.

mcjiggerlog 9y ago
Those models still exist, along with the even lower powered pi zero.
- arbitrage 9y ago
  You can also adjust the CPU power and timing frequencies to underclock your pi for better battery life.
VladTheImplier 9y ago
There are great guides on how to lower power consumption by turning HDMI off, under clocking, even going as far as turning off the status LEDs. Killing off many of the autostarting services in raspbian or not using raspbian in the first place can also help quite a bit due to peak current draw during boot time. If you don't need networking you can easily get down to almost 10s boot time by disabling networking daemons and dependencies. Made a project in optics with the pi zero w, camera v2, a touchscreen over GPIO, 4 bright LEDs and a 5V regulator. As a power source it uses a 9€ 1200mha LithiumIon Battery in 9V battery form. Lives on for 3 hours under full load. Also using normal 9V batteries I killed them in 5mins - something something internal resistance of non LithiumIon batteries not coping with high current draw.

r_singh 9y ago

I'm a big fan of the Raspberry Pi community in general and have used it for multiple applications over the years; most recently as a media center TV box. However, the hardware now feels old and I wish for more of an update from the Pi foundation. If anyone hear is looking for a true upgrade on the Pi, try the ODROID C2, it's years ahead of the Pi in terms of performance.

ekianjo 9y ago
The XU4 from Odroid is even better than the C2. There is virtually no reason to get the C2 now.
- r_singh 9y ago
  I agree, the XU4 is way better than the C2. > There is virtually no reason to get the C2 now I disagree with this though. The price difference between the two isn't insignificant. If someone intends to deploy hundreds of devices for an IoT application the price difference between the 2 would be one of the reasons to choose the C2; the other reasons would be size and heating problems.
  - ekianjo 9y ago
    fair point. I was considering the case of a single user.
tonylemesmer 9y ago
Lots of people say there are superior devices - however the community size and support for Raspberry Pi cannot be overstated. The price of an Odroid XU4 is significantly proportionally higher and I have no guarantee that certain features or projects are feasible on it. First result from Dec 2017 when searching for "XU4 Kodi" is someone having a problem installing and then saying "I would prefer a version with long term support and wide use base." Well my answer to that is RPi. I'm merely implying that RPi has a higher chance of certain things working simply because its more popular. I'm not disputing that there are higher performance platforms for "similar" money but it's reliability and a little more certainty that some people are after. I would love to try one of the ODROID devices, I simply don't have the time. And I love seeing suggestions for these other devices so please don't stop posting them :)

znpy 9y ago

No full gigabit ethernet :(

matthberg 9y ago

Power over Ethernet is terrific, this means only one cord is now needed for a fully functioning pi (assuming you have the proper Ethernet setup on the other end).

cuonic 9y ago
But PoE isn't actually built-in to the Pi, it requires an external hat, purchased separately, and using a PoE hat has been possible on previous versions, yet they decided to announce it now, it's confusing.
- fredoliveira 9y ago
  They are not announcing PoE now. It is listed next to this particular model's features. The new/updated functionality is even bold (and power over ethernet is not).
  - cuonic 9y ago
    I'm aware of the fact, it was just strange how they announced it in the video [0], as if it was a new feature. PoE has been possible on previous versions with a PoE hat aswell, so nothing really new. 0: https://youtu.be/i62xdD4QKtA?t=44 https://youtu.be/i62xdD4QKtA?t=44
    - ThatPlayer 9y ago
      Weren't previous PoE hats just ethernet splitters that also had a 5V output to the Pi rails, but still required another Ethernet cable to connect to the Pi's actual Ethernet port?
      - gruturo 9y ago
        Funny thing is you don't even need a HAT, there are passthrough extractors and they're cheap (30 bucks for a pack of 4): https://www.amazon.com/ANVISION-Splitter-Adapter-Compliant-Raspberry/dp/B079D99Y3Y https://www.amazon.com/ANVISION-Splitter-Adapter-Compliant-R... Let's see how much the official PoE HAT is, but it better be cheap or I know what I'll be buying (more of)

Yaggo 9y ago

I wish they would finally expose the data lines for the second camera in their "hobbyist" boards as well. Currently the dual camera setup is supported only by Compute Module, but it's cumbersome to use because the bulky I/O board (and expensive). The foundation is overlooking the most unique feature of the Broadcom chipset, the 3D video support. They already have implemented the software/driver side, so only thing required is just exposing the pins from the SOC and adding second camera connector – very low hanging fruit. (The Zero board may not have enough space for routing but the bigger boards definitely have.)

titchard 9y ago
That is interesting, I didn't even know that was a feature that was capped on the RPi. I can see that being made into very compact 3D Scanners very quickly after launch if that was added as a feature.
- Yaggo 9y ago
  To clarify, the "3D video feature" is nothing more than being able to record simultaneously from two cameras and merge the video inputs into side-by-side H264 stream. Combined with hardware H264 encoding with delay of ~100 ms, this is very useful for certain applications (in my case, live 3D video broadcasting from UAV). I'm not aware of any other "tinkerer-friendly" board capable of that.
  - imtringued 9y ago
    The hardware accelleration for H264 sounds interesting. Although 100ms is not as ideal as I want but it's reasonable. Is it actually possible to use this feature in practice? Are proprietary drivers an issue? Also is it possible to browse the web and e.g. watch videos on youtube with adequate performance on an RPi? (different topic)
    - Yaggo 9y ago
      > Is it actually possible to use this feature in practice? Are proprietary drivers an issue? I've streamed 3D video over wifibroadcast¹ to OSVR headset, no fundamental issues. The exact lag depends on resolution, fps, etc settings. It would be superb to cut the delay to sub-50 ms range, but that's probably not going to happen as it would require major rewrite of the H264 stack, as currently there are always two full frames in the pipeline, e.g. in 30 fps it makes 1000/30*2 -> ~70 ms delay². (Note that I'm not the author of the befinitiv website.) The foundation has released open-source driver stack³ (raspivid etc), but AFAIK they have rather limited resources for software development (single ex-broadcom developer?) and limited access to proprietary features (documentation?) of the Broadcom chipset. Many things work but I think the capabilities of the SOC aren't yet fully utilized. > Also is it possible to browse the web and e.g. watch videos on youtube with adequate performance on an RPi? (different topic) No personal experience, but RPi 3 should be okayish for lightweight desktop use (YMMV) with 1 GB of RAM being main limitation for multitasking. [1] https://befinitiv.wordpress.com/wifibroadcast-analog-like-transmission-of-live-video-data/ https://befinitiv.wordpress.com/wifibroadcast-analog-like-tr... [2] https://befinitiv.wordpress.com/2015/09/10/latency-analysis-of-the-raspberry-camera/ https://befinitiv.wordpress.com/2015/09/10/latency-analysis-... [3] https://github.com/raspberrypi/userland https://github.com/raspberrypi/userland

ISNIT 9y ago

I'm looking forward for the Pi 3 Model B+Xv2.0

SlowBro 9y ago

I'm still waiting for an inexpensive Linux board with proper sleep support. Suspend, hibernate, etc., and come back within milliseconds instead of dozens of seconds, and under $30 USD.

bdz 9y ago

I'd really want to see a benchmark between this and Odroid C2

m-p-3 9y ago

They should have called it the Raspberry Pi 3.14, considering which day it is ;)

dwheeler 9y ago

This is a nice minor upgrade, good job. That said, I'd love to see a new model with more memory. That would require Broadcom (or some other organization) to develop a revised SoC that supported more control pins, but in a large sense that's a small change, and memory is cheap enough that adding some more memory wouldn't significantly change the price. But it would greatly extend what software the Pi can usefully run. Most software developers don't care very much about memory size, leading to bloat in size. As a result, the little memory limits what applications the current Raspberry Pi can use, including many programs useful for education. I wish them luck!

digi_owl 9y ago
Or perhaps some kind of storage connectivity beyond USB.

digi_owl 9y ago

Reminds me that i have a 3B sitting around that i have yet to do anything with.

sp0ck 9y ago

What I'm missing is on board flash. Even 512MB would be such useful for many usage scenarios to put OS there. SD cards are biggest source of problems on long run RPi's without some tweaking. There are almost none SBC with built in flash (BeagleBone is shiny exception).

tssva 9y ago
It doesn't exactly fill the same niches as the regular RPi but the RPi Compute Module 3 does have 4G of emmc builtin. You can get a compute module and breakout board for $136 on Amazon.
floatboth 9y ago
Most Pine64 boards (including ROCK64) have a little SPI flash chip you can flash U-boot to, and a socket for little eMMC modules.

wbsun 9y ago

Feel like RPi is heading to a commercial upgrade direction: more cores, higher frequency, faster processors, faster networks, etc. Wasn't RPi originally designed to teach programming and to make a hackable gadget? With that goal, I think a simple (and therefore maybe low performance) system is easier to learn and to hack than more and more fancy and complex architecture. From that perspective, BBC Micro bit is doing the right thing IMO.

flyinghamster 9y ago
Why not upgrade it, though? Keeping it a system for teaching/hacking while improving performance is a win-win, as far as I'm concerned. For commercial applications, I'd think the Compute Module would be a better bet.

Slansitartop 9y ago

> 1GB LPDDR2 SDRAM When are they going to upgrade the memory? All of that is nice, but what I've really wanted is one with at least 3-4GB.

floatboth 9y ago
When Broadcom has a less shitty SoC for them…

ChuckMcM 9y ago

I am always impressed at how people can buy a fully functional computer for $35. That said, as an engineer I often cringe at the compromises made. Like "Gigabit Ethernet over USB 2.0". Since the top bit rate of USB2.0 is 480Mbps and GbE is 1250Mbps, USB 2 only has about 1/3 the bit rate to support it. Now it will be faster than 10/100 ethernet connections but don't expect to send a 100 megabytes/second through it.

dtparr 9y ago
So, to be fair, they both refer to it as 'faster ethernet' to try to distinguish it from 'full Gigabit' and say explicitly in the post: > While the USB 2.0 connection to the application processor limits the available bandwidth, we still see roughly a threefold increase in throughput compared to Raspberry Pi 3B. And then show that they're typically seeing 314Mbps for TX/RX in iperf.
Hello71 9y ago
wait, since when can gigabit ethernet transmit more than a gigabit per second?
- jwbensley 9y ago
  Are you referring to this? "GbE is 1250Mbps" 1.25Gbps is the "gross" bit rate for 1000BASE-T Ethernet. This is because it uses 8b/10b encoding on the wire (meaning there is a 25% overhead): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8b/10b_encoding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8b/10b_encoding 1000Mbps is essentially the "net" bit rate available to the Ethernet protocol.
  - ChuckMcM 9y ago
    exactly right. Different standards claim different things, but ethernet tries to do the "right" thing and have the number in the name be the actual number of bits per second you get through the thing. Unlike say serial ports where 9600 bits per second isn't 1200 8 bit bytes per second, its only 960 8 bit bytes per second because of a start bit and stop bit. This can be even worse on serial protocols with forward error correction where up to a third of the bits going across the wire are for error correction and/or clock recovery.

filleokus 9y ago

I'm always so impressed with the supply chain of the Raspberry PI foundation. I woke up today, saw the HN story, and during lunch went to a local store and picked one up. I live in a small-ish town in Sweden. I know it's not like a iPhone release or whatever, but still impressive that they manage to get it out to my local store on release day.