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Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030
- pbhjpbhj 9y agoI understand the need to change approaches and for companies to move to other manufacturing, etc., but 12 years?? Two years seems about right? I always wonder when there's a long implementation period before requirements take hold if that's a politician making sure they don't have to handle the fallout but can still wallow in the glory.
- IntronExon 9y agoOh hell yes, and in 12 years a new set of politicians will kick the can again, that’s how it works.
- netsharc 9y agoHow big is the plastic lobby in Taiwan? I'm quite certain for Europe, the car lobby is very strong that governments say "By 2050" in the same sentence as "All cars should be electric!". On that topic, some cities in Germany are so fed up with the pollution levels, they're thinking of banning diesel cars, which is being argued before a court today. Meanwhile, at the moment it's 45 degrees warmer than normal in the Arctic. It's like saying "In this movie, the hero will win in 50 minutes!" when the end of the movie is in 5.
- KozmoNau7 9y ago>On that topic, some cities in Germany are so fed up with the pollution levels, they're thinking of banning diesel cars, which is being argued before a court today. Bigger cities already ban diesel cars that don't adhere to Euro IV (or V?), and gasoline cars without catalytic converters. You have to have an "umweltplakette" sticker to drive in the cities.
- ragtag2 9y agoYou don't mess with the Taiwanese bubble tea. Seriously, they use one hell of a lot of plastic crap in Taiwan for takeouts but a lot of people also carry their own utensils, for various reasons. Agree, 2 years should be plenty. I'd stretch to 5 but in 12 we'll all be drowning in the stuff.
- Quenty 9y agoAh, this is why carry out is allowed to have plastic for an extra 5 years.
- oldcynic 9y ago12 years? 12 months seems plenty. It's not like they need decades of research to reintroduce paper straws, paper bags and reusable bags. Edit: I'm confused now. "As of next year, food and beverage stores such as fast food chains must stop providing plastic straws for in-store use. From 2020, free plastic straws will be banned from all food and beverage outlets. From 2025, the public will have to pay for takeaway plastic straws, and a blanket ban is to be imposed in 2030" They're banned free from 2020, but public have to pay from 2025? What happens in between then?
- e1ven 9y agoThe way I read it is that they’ll first ban plastic straws at sit down places, then charge extra for plastic straws for takeout, then ban plastic straws for takeout as well as sit down dining.
- oldcynic 9y agoYou're right, I conflated too far.
- Luc 9y agoPlastic straws for takeaway can remain free until 2025. For in-store use they can remain free until 2020.
- leetcrew 9y agopaper straws really suck, please don't let them be the solution.
- rubenbe 9y agoI recently bought a set of reusable stainless steel straws. They were expensive, but have a timeless "design" and have a build quality that gives the impression they will last a lifetime. When dirty I throw them in the dishwasher with the other cutleries. They don't take any space in the washer so cleaning them is essentially "free". (Making abstraction of the ecological cost of a dishwasher.)
- electriclove 9y agoDo you have a link to the product you purchased?
- emodendroket 9y agoI've read that a dishwasher is less wasteful than hand-washing of dishes (perhaps this isn't true for people who are very, very scrupulous about their use of water while washing dishes, but that's not most of us).
- Sharlin 9y agoYeah, modern dishwashers use less water per washing cycle than it takes to fill the kitchen basin for handwashing.
- jimmaswell 9y agoFill the basin? You don't just scrub each dish with a damp sponge spotted with dish soap then rinse it?
- emodendroket 9y agoA lot of people do it that way. Anyway I rinse the dishes but I'm not sure I'm using less water that way.
- Sharlin 9y agoTo be honest, I used to wash dishes under running warm water, probably quite wasteful. By the way, around here (North Europe) we have special dishwashing brushes that apparently aren’t a big thing in most parts of the world.
- randomerr 9y agoThe Law of Unintended Consequences will: * Put companies out of business that produce or import said goods * Reducing availability and increasing cost of medical goods that use plastic because the aforementioned companies no longer exist or are importing products * Put pressure on manufactures to use alternate materials (bamboo and glass most likely) causing shortages and rising cost This in the long run is going to put an overall strain on on the country that is going to drive commerce away and make a black market. Just look at place that bans or places a sin taxes on certain products. Soda Tax in New York that made people go to New Jersey: https://nypost.com/2014/06/26/highest-court-in-ny-refuses-to-reinstate-big-soda-ban/ https://nypost.com/2014/06/26/highest-court-in-ny-refuses-to... Bicycle Tax added because people stopped using cars because of another tax so a new tax had to replace the car tax: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jul/17/first-bicycle-tax-nation-deflates-oregon-riders/ https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jul/17/first-bicyc...
- moccachino 9y agoAll the examples you mentioned are preferable to the status quo, with the exception of the NYC soda size cap which is ridiculous (ban the substance or put a limit on the allowable amount in a serving, don't arbitrarily pick a container size and ban it).
- emodendroket 9y agoAccording to the article linked, the ban was on any soda over 16 oz. rather than any particular size.
- oldcynic 9y ago> Put companies out of business that produce or import said goods Tough. Don't go into business ruining the environment. Similar closures would have happened in asbestos, coal, tetraethyl lead additives and plenty of other things we've discovered are a very bad idea. > Reducing availability and increasing cost of medical goods That's quite a leap - do you have a source? Scotland is banning all plastic straws from end of next year. I sincerely doubt there is going to be a black market as a result.
- technofiend 9y agoThe UK dropped to 500 million bags annually used from 7 billion after introduction of a 5 pence per bag charge. That's just one country albeit one of the world's largest. Still I think we're over due for much more agressive action. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/30/england-plastic-bag-usage-drops-85-per-cent-since-5p-charged-introduced https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/30/england-...
- Fifer82 9y agoI have about 20 pound worth of bags in the cupboard gathering dust, 5p doesn't make a difference. They should make it £1 in the UK from now and £5 from 2020. That will make a dent. 2030 is the same as saying "Lets kick the can down the road".
- toomanybeersies 9y agoWell apparently a 5p charge resulted in a 14x decrease in usage of plastic bags, so despite your anecdote, it does make a difference.
- Fifer82 9y agoFair enough but I wonder how much of that has to do with simply being asked? Being given a bag was standard, as normal as expecting the store to be heated. An invisible service. Now, you don't get given a bag for your Sandwich & Water at lunch, and you don't get a free bag with your McDonalds meal to name just a couple of services. 1p or 5p wouldn't make much of a difference? A Family paying 100 pound a week on shopping at a super market, can easily just spend 100.35 on 7 bags and won't bat an eye lid. If that was 107.00 that would make a real difference and I bet the decrease would be much greater.
- barrkel 9y agoBehavioural economics teaches us that the jump from a price of zero to a price of 1 penny has a much, much larger effect than going from 1 penny to two pence. https://market.subwiki.org/wiki/Zero_price_effect https://market.subwiki.org/wiki/Zero_price_effect The same acts in reverse. I personally reuse the same bag every time I go shopping until it is damaged. When I walk to my local, I carry the two or three items I bought directly, rather than in a bag. I could afford to buy over a million plastic bags a year, yet I've changed my behaviour to avoid buying them whenever possible. (In my case, it has nothing to do with being asked, as I invariably use the automated checkout machines. Bags are available for purchase adjacent to these machines, so it's not an availability problem either.)
- cultureulterior 9y agoGreat job making the world worse.
- emodendroket 9y agoThe least charitable possible interpretation is they're making Taiwan worse to make the world better.
- satoshed 9y agoMorocco is already actively banning plastic bags since 2016. www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2016/07/green-morocco-bans-plastic-bags-160701141919913.html
- Mediterraneo10 9y agoAccording to rumor, this was an initiative of the king who was unhappy with the immense amount of litter across the countryside. Conventional plastic bags have been replaced by fiber bags that, I guess, are biodegradable eventually, but I do wonder if their creation generates just as much CO2. Plus, every single shopkeeper will give you a new-style bag (or three) for free; no one is being encouraged to reuse bags.
- fvdessen 9y agoLast time I was in countryside Morocco, the waste management program consisted in dumping all your trash in the street and let the wind take care of it. There was indeed lots of plastic litter flying around. Looks like banning plastic bags is a good start but they have bigger challenges to tackle when it comes to environmental pollution.
- johnpowell 9y agoIn Eugene we banned them in 2013. You can still buy garbage bags and sandwich bags and so on. And there are still plastic bags for produce and meat. But if you buy a Snapple and bag of Doritos at 7/11 your only options are paying five cents for a paper bag or using your hands. This works well since before they would just automatically bag your things in plastic. Now most people just use their hands.
- lwhi 9y agoKind of feels like a lot of governments are starting to make promises they won't be around to keep .. good for headlines support / minimal effort required.
- oevi 9y agoHere is a suprisingly comprehensive list of countries which have programs to reduce plastic bags: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_lightweight_plastic_bags https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_lightweight_plast...
- jlebrech 9y agoLooks like people will be carrying little handbags around (to hold cutlery) or renting a straw from a vending machine you can return the item to. or even biodegradable bamboo straws.
- jlebrech 9y agoor what about using pottery and throwing them into a special bin and getting a satisfying crash.
- toomanybeersies 9y agoMaybe it's an anecdote, but I've noticed that over the past year or two, most bars and clubs have stopped giving me a straw by default and instead I'd either had to grab one from the jar or ask for one. This is good, I don't need or want a straw in my drink. Even with the introduction of bamboo straws they should keep this policy. Obviously there are reasons to want a straw, such as wearing lipstick or having sensitive teeth, but for lots of us it's unnecessary.
- SnowingXIV 9y agoSaves the business money since they don't have to buy as many. But yeah, I actually really enjoy straws and need them (protein shake with a beard kinda requires one). I use them often but would have no problem if they were made out of something less environmentally damaging.
- stickfigure 9y agoDoes this include those newfangled biodegradable straws and utensils?
- chadlavi 9y agoMeanwhile we can't even ban assault rifles in America.
- ethagnawl 9y agoThe number of plastic straws I see discarded in my local park (Prospect Park in Brooklyn, NY) is _astounding_. I wish New York City would enact a tax/ban.
- M_Bakhtiari 9y agoHas nobody thought of marketing straw straws?
- goda90 9y agoLooks like they have: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/strawstraws/straw-straws https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/strawstraws/straw-straw... http://www.harveststraws.com/ http://www.harveststraws.com/ http://www.strawbystraw.com/ http://www.strawbystraw.com/
- M_Bakhtiari 9y agoNeat, but none of those seem to ever be able to scale enough to be able to completely replace plastic straws. I wonder if a cutting bar and reel system can be made that can cut and bundle the straw on the fly as the grain is harvested.
- adamio 9y agoThere's claims the plastic ban bag in San Diego led to a Hepatitis outbreak https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2017/sep/08/stringers-plastic-bag-ban-led-hep-health-crisis/ https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2017/sep/08/stringers-pl...
- darkstar999 9y agoIf that's true, it would still be a lot less plastic if we gave free access to the homeless population.
- maym86 9y agoOr just access to toilets. It's not like they want to poop in bags.
- joelrunyon 9y agoThey have that. They choose the plastic bags because the toilets are in disarray.
- maym86 9y agoOr just access to well maintained public toilets.
- briandear 9y agoPerhaps the homeless could be given jobs cleaning the toilets?
- grasshopperpurp 9y agoFort Worth and Albuquerque give them jobs to clean up streets. In Fort Worth, they pay $10 per hour and provide housing. This would be similar - and a good idea, I think.
- fvdessen 9y agoWhat is the rationale ? Are disposable plastic bags really that much worse than reusable / paper bags ? From what I understand plastic waste is usually burned for electricity or heat in industrial processes, and it's not that much worse than natural gas.
- hannob 9y ago> From what I understand plastic waste is usually burned for electricity or heat in industrial processes, Except for the ones that end up in the ocean: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_garbage_patch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_garbage_patch
- fvdessen 9y agoThe plastic that ends up in the ocean comes from places & countries that have no waste management at all besides dumping garbage directly in rivers and the ocean. I doubt that's the case for Taiwan.
- craftyguy 9y agoI was in Taiwan a couple years ago doing a beach cleanup, plastics (bags, etc) most definitely make it into the water there.
- wnissen 9y agoRight, but most of them are getting landfilled at the worst, right? As I understand it, the majority of the garbage is coming from countries that have no commercial-scale waste disposal except ocean dumping.
- craftyguy 9y agoMost != all, and it doesn't take much plastic to really mess up an ecosystem. Specifically in north Taiwan's case, I recall learning that a portion of the trash in the ocean comes from China via ocean currents, but there's still a significant amount coming from Taiwan via accidents (trash spilling, vessels losing it, etc)
- nmridul 9y agoSurprisingly Singapore, a developed country with Budget surplus, and that which can afford a plastic ban, is no where in any list. And the plastic bag use is extreme here. [1] http://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/3-billion-plastic-bags-a-year-cut-use-with-mandatory-tax http://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/3-billion-plastic-bags-a...
- devy 9y ago> “You can use steel products, or edible straws – or maybe you just don’t need to use straws at all,” he said. “There is no inconvenience caused at all.” This is debatable. I've definitely heard dentists recommending using straws to drink sodas to reduce the acidic decay effect on front teeth (basically just prevent the teeth from exposing the to harmful liquids). [1] [1]: https://www.webmd.com/oral-health/news/20050617/sipping-soda-through-straw-cut-cavities#1 https://www.webmd.com/oral-health/news/20050617/sipping-soda...
- jonwachob91 9y agoDentist also recommend not drinking soda at all. You're argument also assumes everyone drinks soda all the time.
- devy 9y ago1. "You're argument" should be "Your argument". 2. No, my argument is not assuming anything - that's why I said "debatable" not "incorrect". At least for some of the soda drinkers like myself, we prefer sipping with a straw - but probably a steel straw preferably now.
- pastullo 9y agoOr maybe you just stop drinking Sodas at all. Might sounds a bit too radical, but both goods (sodas and straws) should simply NOT be in sale.
- jaysoncena 9y agoAt least major cities and provinces in Philippines started banning plastic bags, styrofoams and disposable, plastic utensils since 2012 http://plasticbagbanreport.com/category/world-news/philippines/ http://plasticbagbanreport.com/category/world-news/philippin...
- mc32 9y agoAs good as this will be for the environment and aesthetics, just have to think the bubble tea vendors as well as regular green tea vendors who sell their drinks in sealed containers to be pierced by a sharp straw are not going to be fans of this ban.
- mulmen 9y agoThose bubble teas come in a plastic cup with a plastic lid and then they give you a plastic bag too! This will be a big change for a lot of vendors.
- ePierre 9y agoWell since January 1st, they cannot give you a plastic bag for free anymore. That's already a push in the good direction!
- rocky1138 9y agoThey should switch to a paper bag which is biodegradeable.
- mc32 9y agoThere are biodegradable[1] non traditional-plastic bags too. Might be more expensive in the beginning. [1]http://biobagusa.com/products/retail-products/ http://biobagusa.com/products/retail-products/
- TazeTSchnitzel 9y ago> uniform invoices – widely used in Taiwan I wondered what this meant, so I looked it up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Invoice_lottery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Invoice_lottery To encourage businesses to report their earnings, Taiwan's tax authorities operate a receipt lottery. Genius.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- HumanDrivenDev 9y agoIt's pretty common to buy something then be asked to pay 5% more if you want a receipt - 5% being their sales tax.
- ePierre 9y agoWut?! No, they ask you to pay 5% more when you want to pay by card: it's the Visa/Mastercard fees.
- gurkendoktor 9y agoI've experienced that kind of shenanigans in Vietnam, but never in Taiwan. What did you buy?
- HumanDrivenDev 9y agoElectronics
- philliphaydon 9y agoI've never, ever, been asked to pay more for a receipt.
- HumanDrivenDev 9y agohave you ever asked for a receipt where one hasn't been offered?
- mgeorgoulo 9y agoAs of 2018, Greece charges €0.04 / bag. Albeit very effective, I don't know how to feel about the actual contents of my new multi-use bag. Almost every food item is packed in a single-use plastic package. It certainly seems that those are a greater concern than the plastic bags.
- debt 9y agoI find it hilarious that California is attempting to pass similar legislation with about a ~$2 billion price tag yet there’s people living in tent cities from Oakland to San Francisco down to LA with San Diego actually building a tent housing complex in a a parking lot.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- desireco42 9y agoKind of a long time frame for this change. I could get 2020, but why 2030?! I see, they will stop giving them for free and 2030 is total ban.
- zboogie 9y agoBisbee, a town in Southern Arizona, recently saw its popularly approved of plastic bag ban overturned by the AZ state legislature.
- jamesrcole 9y agoDoes anyone know of a deeply-argued argument against the use of plastics like these? Don't take this question as meaning that I believe such an argument doesn't exist, or that I think they shouldn't be banned. I'm currently agnostic on the matter, because I don't feel I know enough about it. I tend to only hear shallowly-argued reasons for banning these things (which doesn't mean their conclusions are wrong).
- picodguyo 9y agoPlastics are polluting and poisoning the oceans: https://www.ft.com/content/30b30b1e-004a-11e8-9650-9c0ad2d7c5b5 https://www.ft.com/content/30b30b1e-004a-11e8-9650-9c0ad2d7c...
- jamesrcole 9y agoI can't read that article (says a subscription is required). Plastics may be polluting and poisoning the oceans, but - what exactly is the source of those plastics? I saw someone else in this thread claim that it was from countries with poor waste management. So is banning use of those plastics in certain countries actually going to help? Is better waste management a better solution? - evaluating any proposal means doing a cost/benefit analysis of it and the alternatives. So some plastics from some sources contribute to that pollution and poisoning. But how much better or worse are the alternatives to banning them? See what I mean about shallow vs deep arguments for proposed solutions?
- tclancy 9y agoYou're asking strangers on the Internet to do your research for you, trusting the data without research and then lecturing us on doing deeper research?
- jamesrcole 9y agoYou assume I haven't done any research myself. I've spent some time looking into this and haven't seen anything that I thought really tried to analyse the issue. And I was wondering if anyone else knew of any good sources. What is wrong with asking if others know of any good sources? Isn't sharing knowledge one of the points of sites like this? > trusting the data without research what are you referring to with this? > then lecturing us on doing deeper research? I never said anybody had to do any deeper research. I explained why "plastics are polluting and poisoning the ocean" is not, itself, a deep argument for wanting to ban them. What is wrong with doing that? And do you disagree with any of the reasons I gave?
- makecheck 9y agoDrinks taste better without straws anyway, and you can be satisfied with a lot less by sipping directly. I was amazed how easily I could gulp down some 32 oz. drink with a straw but when opening the lid and sipping I could be perfectly happy with a tiny coffee-cup size.
- antognini 9y agoI don't like straws myself, but they are better for your teeth since most beverages are acidic and the straw allows the liquid to bypass your teeth.
- makecheck 9y agoUnlikely; in over 40 years I have zero cavities.
- lev99 9y agoI suspect we'll see the market for reusable straws increase in Taiwan.
- gurkendoktor 9y agoI have no numbers but I suspect that's already happening. I saw several people carry these reusable cups for drinks around last year (it seemed almost like a fad, but I hope it lasts): https://www.rakuten.com.tw/search/冰霸杯/ https://www.rakuten.com.tw/search/冰霸杯/ Buying a reusable straw seems like the obvious next step. Many shops also give a 3% or so discount to people who bring their own cup.
- bambax 9y agoWater isn't acidic, and is much better for your health than literally any other liquid.
- disordinary 9y agoThat's why they make metal straws which also works for hot drinks like preventing Coffee from staining your teeth.
- okreallywtf 9y agoJust to play devils advocate on this, this isn't very free market. How is this not clearly choosing winners and losers? What about the plastic bag producing companies and their shareholders? The government is choosing multi-use bag makers over single use bag makers. I feel like this is "common sense" enough that people don't fight it, but if it is a more complex (and more important) issue like climate change and banning polluting power sources, it all the sudden becomes an ideological and philosophical issue and we have to just wait until the economics are just right to see whether we'll survive or not. Why can't we treat polluting our air and water in the same way? Just because we don't have to see the pollution blowing around the roadway we aren't going to worry about it?
- okreallywtf 9y agoI'm curious why I'm getting downvoted for this, it seems to be a pretty clear comparison to me.
- viggity 9y agowhat is the environmental cost of staying in the hospital? Coliform bacteria are found in half of reusable bags and E. Coli are found in 12%. Reusable bags weigh 40-50 grams, one time use bags are 6 grams. I'm for finding bio-degradable plastic replacements, not because they take up landfill space (who cares, landfills are very safe), but more for the bags/plastics that don't find their way to the landfill.
- okreallywtf 9y agoGood point. I don't think those issues cannot be resolved though, but it is one of those things that might not be as cut and dried as it seems. I wonder if biodegradable or recyclable bags made of paper or something else are the best of both worlds? There are likely to be longer term positive effects of banning plastic bags as well though. Plastic bags don't biodegrade, but they do seem to break up into little bits and can make it into the food supply through fish and maybe other animals. I have a hard time believing that plastic bags as they are are an actual good solution to the problem of needing to get food to your house. To me, the ideal solution to plastic bags is the same as the solution to most environmental problems: correctly account for the cost of the environmental damage and add that to the cost of the product (the company can chose to eat it or pass it on to the customer). I know that correctly calculating the cost is probably tricky but still. That would fix a lot of our environmental issues. Gas and coal are only cheap when we don't factor air quality into the equation.
- DoreenMichele 9y agoI hate seeing these extremist bans. I was homeless in California when the bag ban went into effect. Following hot on the heels of the bag ban a hepatitis epidemic broke out in Southern California. I believe these two things are related. I have a permanently compromised immune system. Reusing bags is problematic for me. However, I use grocery bags as trash bags. I almost never buy trash bags. This has basically been true my entire adult life. I bet a lot of people reusing grocery bags are buying trash bags separately. I am very concerned that when we outright ban disposable bags and utensils we create a health risk that may go unrecognized. Using metal straws and trying to clean them between uses strikes me as very problematic. That strikes me as a tremendous opportunity to foster antibiotic resistant infections. I really wish the world would stop and wonder why such products are so popular instead of decrying them as clearly lazy and evil and no-good-nik. Because I fear that a lot of people will mysteriously die of illness and wondering if there is a connection to the ban of disposable items will mark you as a loony.
- nugi 9y agoI too, use the ubiquitous plastic bags as trash bags, but I get about 50, for each I use as trash. They are poorly recycled, and I am constantly picking them form my trees in the country. Its a plauge, and needs to stop. Your point about being extreme is well taken. I think a deposit system is ideal personally.
- okreallywtf 9y agoFirst, are you seriously suggesting that they were popular for the reasons that you personally prefer them? Second, even if it did cause an outbreak what does that tell us about how endemic hepatitis was already? Is that not an issue already that it was all around us such that simply changing the habits of our shopping bags could cause this problem? It sounds like there is a deeper issue that needs to be addressed. I'm sympathetic to your particular issues and I hope that there is an acceptable middleground for people with your situation but these seem like some serious edge cases to me. That is not to say that I expect you to have to suffer because you are an "edge case", but I don't see why we can't essentially ban something that is a problem overall while still finding a way to protect your health needs.
- preben 9y agoAre there alternatives to single-use plastic straws? I don't see many multi-use ditos.
- kuon 9y agoI agree for the bags, the cups... but not the straws. I am not going to give steel straws to my kids. They are dangerous (no more walking while drinking), hard to clean, heavy, they can't play with it... But it's not because I use plastic straw that I don't reuse them, a "disposable straw" usually last nearly a week if the are not used with something hard to clean like syrup or milk. As for the bag side of things, we use PET bags [1] here in Switzerland, which lasts between 6 months and a year. They where even available for free at some point. Not even mentioning the environment, those bags are highly superior to plastic bags, bigger, easier to handle and much more robust. [1]: https://img.coopathome.ch/produkte/880_880/RGB/1012284_001.jpg?_=1454707905335 https://img.coopathome.ch/produkte/880_880/RGB/1012284_001.j...
- ddebernardy 9y agoTry showing your kid a video of a straw being pulled out of a sea turtle's nose. Assuming they're as sensitive as most kids are, they'll instantly grok what the problem is and refuse to ever use a plastic straw from that point onward.
- kuon 9y agoJust dispose of the straw properly.
- patosai 9y agoI think the banning of disposable utensils will be hard to adopt given how big the restaurant/night market scene is in Taiwan. I doubt many people will want to carry steel straws, chopsticks, or forks. When you want to go get food, do you want to think about what food you want? Or what utensil and container you need to bring? It's far more convenient to just provide a utensil there. There's a post on reddit which basically sums it up - https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/7zbjdj/taiwan_to_ban_singleuse_plastic_drinking_straws/dun7n2q/ https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/7zbjdj/taiwan_to...
- user5994461 9y agoThe same can be made with paper or cardboard.
- patosai 9y agoI see how paper/cardboard containers would work, but how does a cardboard straw or fork work? Wooden chopsticks are mainstream but a certain thickness is required for strength, which you can't get in a straw or fork. Plus they lose strength when they get wet, so now you need to add some coating to protect them. But then that destroys recyclability which destroys the point of using such a material.
- jamespitts 9y agoI see it in effect there now already; people are buying and carrying around these collapsable silicone cups and cute cloth cup-holder things. Like a lot of things in Taiwan (particularly if related to food), it seems to have gotten trendy.
- maxcameron 9y agoMy wife and I started a business built around helping people reduce the amount of single-use plastic they send to landfill. The zero waste movement is growing super fast. https://wildminimalist.com https://wildminimalist.com if anyone is interested.
- dalbasal 9y agoYou got to be at least a little cynical about 2030 date for something like this. Why not 2020. This isn't electric cars. We don't need to think about cost curves or 10 year product cycles.
- AgentME 9y agoIf they jumped into it 100% too fast, then it might become unpopular because it's such a sudden change, and then reversed or everyone solidifies into a new routine in which they evade it somehow. Easing into it maybe makes that less likely.
- twostoned 9y agoI noticed this too, it almost makes it seem redundant. 11.5 years from now we're going to improve something. Oh yeah? Imagine if someone told you they planned to quit smoking in 10 years? haha ok
- yawz 9y agoMy first reaction too. I didn't think 2030 was particularly ambitious.
- hnrodey 9y agoThere is a business and people impact to these types of decisions. Reducing usage of anything means one or more businesses will cease to operate and people will lose income. The government needs to afford these industries an opportunity to adjust to the new regulations.
- dalbasal 9y agosure, presumably there are some people that only make or deliver plastic spoons. But, they aren't many. Businesses will need to change practices. Supporting industries (regular cutlery, dishwashers) need to adapt a little. There might be a little pain or cost. Highly optimized workflows (eg McDonald's) a little more. Generally, this is not that disruptive. Industry could adapt in 6 months, 18 months comfortably. Anything over two years is pointless. No businesses will even think about this until 2028. Why bother with a tiny change 12 years from now. It may not even come to pass. Generally, I don't like long lead time for democratic considerations. It makes accountability worse, and encourages political shenanigans. Decision makers should be there when their decisions take effect.
- neilni 9y agoSeeing some of comments about price.. just thought I can put more info here since that's where I'm from and some points are not mentioned, especially the previous plastic reduction effort by Taiwan started in 2002. In 2002, the restriction on plastic bags that are thinner than 0.06mm was imposed to all stores, but it was not a complete ban. Stores that offer plastic bags thicker than 0.06mm need to charge customers. The idea behind thicker bag is reusability. Two types of responses from stores: Stores started providing thinner bag as long as they are bio-degradable (Link 1), or they provide thicker bag as long as customers are charged. Customer's response: Since 2002, 71.7 reduction in plastic bag use in supermarkets, and 43.4 reduction in plastic bag use in stores. (Link 2, Link 3) And just a side note, Taipei started being more aggressive since 2000 by charging garbage bags. You have to purchase government issued garbage bags if you want to throw your garbage out of your house. (Mentioned in link 4) Some links are in Chinese Link 1: http://e-info.org.tw/node/202363 http://e-info.org.tw/node/202363 Link 2: http://www.epochtimes.com.tw/n176732/%E6%93%B4%E5%A4%A7%E9%99%90%E5%A1%91%E6%94%BF%E7%AD%96-%E4%BB%98%E8%B2%BB%E5%A1%91%E8%86%A0%E8%A2%8B%E6%93%AC%E6%8F%90%E9%AB%98%E5%88%B05%E5%85%83.html http://www.epochtimes.com.tw/n176732/%E6%93%B4%E5%A4%A7%E9%9... Link 3: Similar to link 2 with different stats https://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0615/p07s02-woap.html https://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0615/p07s02-woap.html Link 4: https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3134910 https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3134910
- ekianjo 9y ago> You have to purchase government issued garbage bags if you want to throw your garbage out of your house That's the case in many countries - in Japan for example. (not government issued but city-issued or prefecture-issued bags).
- seanmcdirmid 9y agoSame is definitely true in Zurich, but not the rest of Switzerland.
- emilfihlman 9y agoWhat's a non-single-use straw?
- troyvit 9y agoBy 2030 wow. Great. Flying cars and disposable utensils coming in the same year.
- ibdf 9y ago2030 seems far, but it's better than no deadline. I believe they give so many years to make this change, to allow manufactures to make adjustments and changes to their machinery without hurting jobs.
- wybiral 9y agoI live in Austin, Texas and we have a ban on single-use plastic bags. People just have to bring reusable bags when they go shopping or pay extra. It did seem to cut down on the number of bags you see littered about.
- billsmithaustin 9y agoEnjoy it while you can. The Texas executive branch is trying to reverse that ban, along with every other single-use plastic bag ban imposed at the city level. See https://www.texastribune.org/2018/01/11/texas-plastic-bag-bans-threatened-supreme-court-challenge-laredo-ordin/ https://www.texastribune.org/2018/01/11/texas-plastic-bag-ba....
- wybiral 9y agoWell, Texas...
- fpgaminer 9y agoIf I'm remembering correctly from my trip to Taiwan a few years ago, free plastic bags were already banned. At least at the stores I was going to. You had to pay a small fee to get a bag. (Was also interesting encountering the lotto receipts!)
- khana 9y ago2030?? How about 2:30
- kazinator 9y ago> single-use plastic straws People will resort to single-use cleaning implements to wash their straws.
- lurker79 9y agoGood to see that China is taking a step against plastics and is becoming more green