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What to Do When Laptops and Silence Take Over Your Cafe?

• taneq 9y ago
  How common is it for people to do actual, regular, serious work at coffee shops and the like? I've tried a couple of times and I always feel like such a pretentious wanker when I pull out a laptop and start working on stuff, like I'm somehow broadcasting "oh look at me, I work remotely, aren't I special?"
  • dvtv75 9y ago
    Many years ago, I went to meet a friend at a cafe and show him this game I'd just bought. Pulled the laptop out and it was incredible just how fast I felt like that. Besides which, the noise levels would drive me nuts. I have difficulty working with any kind of unstructured noise.
  • seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    No one thinks that, especially near universities where students are doing their homework anyways. I always used to hit cafes when they weren't busy, so super early morning, or late afternoons...if the place is full, you can't do thinking anyways, but if its empty, the cafe's appreciate the business.
  • banku_brougham 9y ago
    Ironically, i’m more focused there than in my open plan office. been hitting the cafes hard for years now.
    • toomanybeersies 9y ago
      Not surprising, the people in the cafe aren't constantly coming up to you and interrupting you.
    • icc97 9y ago
      There was a HN story about this recently, there's a certain level of noise that can help with creativity.
  • stevenh 9y ago
    Is this what you think about other people you see working at coffee shops?
    • taneq 9y ago
      No, and so I don't really believe that's what other people are thinking. But it's how I feel, and it messes with my concentration.
      • rdiddly 9y ago
        I think it a little. Never really "got" the whole thing I guess. I also wonder why does a supposed "remote worker" (for money, I presume) want to eat (literally) into their profits by spending money constantly at a cafe? My home would have to be a heckhole indeed... Or I'd have to be stricken with a loneliness so gnawing that I had to get out. Otherwise I'm perfectly content to have total control over a pleasant private environment that I'm already paying for!
        • jclardy 9y ago
          I work remote, I enjoy working from my pleasant private environment about 90% of the time. But I get bored of it and want a change of pace, and I enjoy espresso drinks that I can’t duplicate at home. $25 a week spent on breakfast and coffee plus a new environment isn’t really going to ding my budget, maybe that is different for other people depending on their field.
        • protopeer 9y ago
          for what it's worth, you can go to Starbucks, get a coffee for under $2, and with their current rewards program, unlimited refills all day long as long as you don't leave. if you bring your own lunch, it can be a really cheap place to work, as long as it fits your work style.
        • mindcrime 9y ago
          I also wonder why does a supposed "remote worker" (for money, I presume) want to eat (literally) into their profits by spending money constantly at a cafe? I'm not a full-time remote worker, but as mentioned above, I do work out of cafe environments quite often. Why? Well, in my case, I'm single, I live alone, and if the only place I'm ever at - besides my day-job office - is my apartment, I'd get really bored and go stir-crazy. For me, the cafe is a "3rd place". That is helped by the fact that I drink copious amounts of coffee. Also, sometimes (as somebody else in one of these threads mentioned) there's something satisfying about being around other people, but not being required to interact with them. And there's something about the hustle-and-bustle / hum of activity in a cafe that is comforting. See, for example, how some people working in an office will put on a "coffee shop noises" audio track while working, to attempt to partially simulate that environment.
  • sdenton4 9y ago
    I wrote kind of a dumb amount of my dissertation at Mishka's Cafe and the Delta of Venus in Davis. Mishka's has a thin row of seating at the front with a 'no work' policy - including no reading except for newspapers - and then a huge area of grad students on laptops. Delta's much less structured, has a lot more ambient conversation, and has a real (and excellent) kitchen which I imagine rounds out their business nicely. So, yeah, it's a pretty easy habit to get into as a student. These days, I mainly get my solo research in on weekends, and spend a few hours in a local coffee shop. I tip generously, and occasionally buy a pound of coffee to keep things on the up and up.
    • some-guy 9y ago
      I work in the Bay Area as a software engineer but live in Davis and work from there two days a week (wife is a PhD student). Delta of Venus is the only place I can get work done.
    • jonnycomputer 9y ago
      Delta of Venus. Great place.
    • sli 9y ago
      Are novels not allowed?
    • SubiculumCode 9y ago
      ++ For DoV. Wrote a bit of my dissertation there, but also just sat there listening and chatting with interesting peoples
  • cyberferret 9y ago
    I feel the same way, and have never been able to work on a laptop in a coffee shop. I prefer to work in silence too, and never listen to music etc. while working, so this probably is a big factor for me. What I do enjoy in coffee shops though, is writing ideas and planning/brainstorming projects (by hand) in my paper notebook.
  • a-saleh 9y ago
    I did this in tearooms. There usually were ~3 sections in a tearoom, one with tables and stools, one with cushions and one where you could smoke nargile/hookah. Sitting at a table for two with a laptop was fine. There usually would be at least one more. It would more often than not broadcast "student" than "pretentious remote worker"
  • lacker 9y ago
    I find it very convenient when I have meetings far away from my workplace. A lunch meeting and a late afternoon meeting, great I can work from a coffee shop in between.
  • unixhero 9y ago
    Common
  • inDigiNeous 9y ago
    It's very common. If you don't have a workplace, and are an independent developer, many people work remotely from coffee places. If you feel like that, you just have to overcome that feeling. I have no problem doing what is my passion from anywhere. Except if it's too noisy or there's too much people. But then you figure out something else.
  • mrweasel 9y ago
    People are different of cause, they have different types of jobs, and cafes are different as well. However; when I see someone with a laptop on a tiny little round cafe table, I assume that they just want to be seen, or if they're just setting up for an Instagram photo. Their 13" MacBook is often dwarfed by their huge coffee cup, how can anyone work in such crammed conditions? And the noise.... don't people need to think?
    • gurkendoktor 9y ago
      Strangely enough, knowing that so many people have doubts about coffeeshop nomads was very motivating when I did exactly that. I sometimes lacked the discipline to get work done from home, but when I sat down at a coffeeshop, I never opened social media because that would only prove you people right - so I worked all day.
    • deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    • markrages 9y ago
      A tiny laptop works great for focused work. When I'm feeling scattered I take my X-series ThinkPad to the coffee shop and work until the battery dies.
  • s73v3r_ 9y ago
    I know a few people who do. One still lives with her parents (she freelances while going to school and tending bar at the family business). Her room is small, so it's mostly set up for relaxing. Thus, coffee shops for working.
  • 1337biz 9y ago
    Reality is nobody cares about you in the (semi-)public. Unless you of cause go really crazy. Determine your actions based on the imaginary judgement of completely random strangers is going to serverely limit the way you live your life.
    • freeloop3 9y ago
      > Reality is nobody cares about you in the (semi-)public. Unless you of cause go really crazy. A few people have been saying that. But, how can you possibly know? It sounds like a platitude one tells themselves in order to not feel self-conscious, rather than an actual discernable fact.
      • deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
      • alonmower 9y ago
        I guess I read this as "as long as you're not disrupting other people/going against the cafe's policies then who gives a shit if other people care about you" more than "other people will never care about you"
  • coldtea 9y ago
    >I've tried a couple of times and I always feel like such a pretentious wanker when I pull out a laptop and start working on stuff, like I'm somehow broadcasting "oh look at me, I work remotely, aren't I special?" This though can be turned around easily: that the one feeling that way is self-centered and believes unknown people in a cafe care about what he "broadcasts" when he uses his laptop. What makes he believe he is special enough to warrant attention for having a laptop out? Who even cares about what they do? (short of ritual sacrifice).
    • TeMPOraL 9y ago
      Yup. I find that people complaining about different habits of others are usually the one with problems.
      • irq11 9y ago
        I find that there’s a percentage of people in the world who are oblivious to cultural norms, and become indignant when it is explained that some habits are problematic.
    • taneq 9y ago
      You don't have to be self-centered or believe you're special to feel awkward when going against social norms. If remote working at cafes was something that happened regularly around where I live and half the tables had laptops on them then I wouldn't feel pretentious at all. But sitting alone at a table with a laptop in a room full of people socializing is a completely different situation and feels weird.
  • cageface 9y ago
    I'm very productive in cafes. If you work remotely you really don't want to be at home all day long. Working for a few hours in the morning in a cafe helps stave off cabin fever. Headphones and music are a must though.
  • jclardy 9y ago
    Being someone who works remotely exclusively...I wouldn’t survive without going to a coffee shop to work 2-3 times a week. Just need to get out of the house and be around people sometimes (during the day.) People go to coffee shops to talk, to read, to write, to think. It doesn’t seem like much of a reach to think people would go there to do work. The common theme seems to be wanting to focus.
    • Spooky23 9y ago
      Being someone who works at the office exclusively, I have the same need. A change of context is awesome.
    • FireBeyond 9y ago
      Right, I've worked from home for 10 years. Oftentimes my partner would come home from school, work, and want to relax. I'd want to go anywhere. "Where?" "I dunno, even the mall." "Is there something you want?" "Not that I can think of." But it was to be "social". Be around people, even with minimal interaction. She wanted to relax, had been busy and around people all day. I'd been at home with our cat and our dog. You can be "social", or at least "not alone", without having to talk to people.
    • icc97 9y ago
      I literally go every morning for 2 hours before the morning stand up. Guarantees a good couple of hours to start the day.
  • kingkongjaffa 9y ago
    Masters thesis write up. Especially the Literature review, was made more bearable by shitty caramel machiatto's in Starbucks. If you don't need your workstation for heavy lifting. If you're mainly reading research papers or writing little scripts, to apply the documentation to your use case or something, then coffee shops can be great.
  • ratsimihah 9y ago
    If you're feeling self-conscious, it's in your head though, isn't it? I feel like it's not that hard to just sit there and do your work, minding your own business. Sure, it personally makes me feel anti-social, but when I do hang out with people at coffe shops and see someone else work, I do know how they feel and won't judge. And yea, I've done some pretty good "work" at coffee shops, where I didn't have the distraction of super high bandwidth and playing games at home. And as others have pointed out, being around people is fun, even when you're not interacting with them, though that doesn't relate to your point.
  • theshrike79 9y ago
    If I have a day when Need to Get Shit Done, I go to a cafe. That way I can't be physically bothered and I can just turn off all communication software and devices if I need to.
  • mindcrime 9y ago
    How common is it for people to do actual, regular, serious work at coffee shops and the like? I don't know the answer in general, so I can only offer the anecdote that "I do it." I work a day-job and am working on a side-project, and I visit a coffee shop / cafe environment usually 2 or 3 nights a week after the day-job to work on my project for a few hours. And I typically do the same for up to 8 hours on Saturday and maybe 4-6 hours on Sunday. I've tried a couple of times and I always feel like such a pretentious wanker when I pull out a laptop and start working on stuff, like I'm somehow broadcasting "oh look at me, I work remotely, aren't I special?" Interesting. Such a thought has never occurred to me. But I live in a college heavy area and visit a cafe that's near UNC, Duke and NC Central, and there are always plenty of people with laptops out. A lot are clearly students, but I'm pretty sure there's a decent number who are working professionals as well. On the OTOH, despite the prevalence of laptops there, there are always plenty of tables with people who aren't on laptops and who are socializing in-person.
  • eswat 9y ago
    You probably think the other patrons are more interested on what you are doing there than they actually care. I can understand feeling this with a cafe that has explicit rules about laptop use, otherwise what anyone dose in a cafe is their own business unless they are interrupting the experience of others.
  • csomar 9y ago
    I can get 2/3 hours sometimes of serious hacking work on a noisy, busy coffeeshop. The combination is 3-4 days of isolated work and then boredom and then boom. Working alongside of very annoying people can work.
  • tootie 9y ago
    At the wifi cafe near me, everyone gives off that vibe and seems pretty proud of it. I've discovered it's a great place to take my kids to do their homework. They get a hot chocolate and someplace quiet to focus on their work and not be distracted by games and toys. I could never get much work done at one of those place, but then again I don't get much done at my office either.
    • InitialLastName 9y ago
      The library served the same function for my father when I was growing up. He could take us there, we'd do our homework, and there was a solid social code enforcing silence and focus. At the end, we got to pick out some new books to read.
  • vorpalhex 9y ago
    I do it for high focus tasks. I like the noise level of cafe's and that interruptions are very rare. I can be extremely productive, and sometimes I'll do work at a cafe even if it isn't for my actual job. For instance I'll work on some fiction writing, or a coding project. At least around here most people seem to be on laptops. Whether they're playing a game or doing actual work I don't know since I try to not peep at other screens, but nobody has given me any stare-downs or anything rude.
  • bluedino 9y ago
    All the time. My complaint would be people yapping on their cell phone for work. That's a big distraction, you blend in with a laptop, but nothing says "I'm important" yelling into your bluetooth for an hour.
  • AnIdiotOnTheNet 9y ago
    I find it really strange too, for a similar reason. But at least one developer I have a lot of respect for constantly bemoans the lack of a really good development laptop because they like to work at coffee shops. One of the most productive developers I know of, so it's hard to say it can't work.
  • rocky1138 9y ago
    Do you live in a small town? I've found that when I go home to visit my parents at their small town, it does feel slightly uncomfortable to be the only one on a laptop in any cafe.
  • turc1656 9y ago
    This is the appropriate emotional response. Kudos to you. Thanks for not being a tool. I would say, though, that the reason it's a "pretentious wanker" move isn't because they work remotely but instead choose to work silently in a public space not designed for it, essentially for free. Paying for coffee, pastry, whatever and using the place as an office is not providing the appropriate monetary remuneration to the business for having an office space.
  • always_good 9y ago
    Dunno, that's just a self-limiting belief that's doing you no good. Like not approaching women because you think it broadcasts "oh look at me, thinking I'm good enough to approach you, how pretentious!" And then just stewing alone for the rest of your life because, hey, at least you avoided the thoughts you thought other people might have!
• nharada 9y ago
  So is this about sales or about the vibe of having a coffee place where people hang out and chat? I'd be happy to pay some money to work for longer than one drink at a cafe, but I don't really want to drink 5 coffees to work for a day.
  • k_sh 9y ago
    See Workshop Cafe[0], $2/hr for fast wifi, order-by-text table service, suitable spaces for groups, and even some external monitors lying around (as of 2016...) [0]: http://www.workshopcafe.com http://www.workshopcafe.com
    • banku_brougham 9y ago
      that looks amazing.
    • CaliforniaKarl 9y ago
      Oh wow, that's awesome! If they had a location near Caltrain, anywhere from Redwood City down to San Jose, I'd start going there once every week or so.
    • eeZah7Ux 9y ago
      $2 per hour sound like a honest and fair price.
  • therealmarv 9y ago
    This is called a coworking space ;)
    • keypress 9y ago
      Local coworking haunt (UK) is about £20 per day or more. That equates to about 10 coffees. Or 6 coffees, 1 soup and 1 cake. Which starts to make the cafe more appealing.
      • therealmarv 9y ago
• kevin_thibedeau 9y ago
  Play background cafe chatter through speakers.
  • dazc 9y ago
    Give discounts to mums with prams?
    • decasia 9y ago
      Or dads with prams!
    • mrweasel 9y ago
      Cafes aren't fans of mums with prams either and for the same reason. They hang around for hours while buying very little.
    • jlebrech 9y ago
      crying babies aren't really the background noise they are looking for.
  • tonyedgecombe 9y ago
    https://coffitivity.com https://coffitivity.com
    • gabemart 9y ago
      Or play something more malevolent when people outstay their welcome... https://asoftmurmur.com/?v=003a6400000e00000000&autoplay=1 https://asoftmurmur.com/?v=003a6400000e00000000&autoplay=1
• JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  > At Triniti, Mr. Wynn offers free Wi-Fi, but after two hours a customer must have “a face-to-face interaction” with an employee, he says, to get a new password This is the best approach. (The "a staff member will approach the uninitiated customer whose laptop is open for more than a couple of minutes with a gentle but firm request ‘to finish up what you’re doing and close the laptop, please,’ approach is the worst. No sign, no explanation--just a demand.) > the Rose doesn’t provide electrical outlets; a dwindling battery should be a sign that it’s time to go This is also fine, albeit ineffective against my MacBook Air.
  • jankotek 9y ago
    Not really, 4G is good now, local wifi is not needed
    • dazc 9y ago
      I'm guessing most people using cafes as workplaces are going to baulk at paying for 4G? It can get really expensive if you're working more than a couple of hours a day.
      • unixhero 9y ago
        Not when you have 50gb per month.
      • ballooney 9y ago
        I haven't paid-by-the-byte for 4G for about half a decade now. It's unlimited with my reasonably priced monthly contract (about $30USD/mo), from a mainstream provider in the UK (Three), lets me tether and gives me free data when I'm abroad too (I'm in the US and France a few times a year typically). I hope this doesn't sound too let-them-eat-cake, but I'm surprised that anyone with work-on-app-in-a-café-in-a-trendy-city lifestyle wouldn't have a sim plan with unlimited, or at least a very high allowance of, data.
        • dazc 9y ago
• kenning 9y ago
  If I bought a cup of coffee at your shop and sat down, only for you to tell me that laptops are "not allowed," I'd be very unhappy with your store. Anyway, this is why coworking spaces exist.
  • keypress 9y ago
    Not so sure, depends if someone is taking the proverbial.
  • toomanybeersies 9y ago
    Your $3 coffee doesn't entitle you to sit there for an hour though. If I was running a cafe, I'd expect that you'd be leaving within 5 to 10 minutes of finishing your coffee. The very few times I've worked in a coffee shop, I've done that myself. It's not a coworking space.
    • inDigiNeous 9y ago
      Says who? I would understand it if the cafe place would enforce rules like this. But they would also lose many current customers. Many people just come to a cafe and stare at their phone. Or read a book. How I see it this is a problem for the providers of the cafe service to solve, not the customers.
      • tonyedgecombe 9y ago
        I've walked past cafes that have no seats available because they are full of people with laptops, they have lost my business because they don't enforce any rules.
        • chrisseaton 9y ago
          I don’t get it. Those people shouldn’t sit at the tables... because you want to be sitting at the tables instead?
          • 9y ago
• therealmarv 9y ago
  No power plugs (I think most effective) & time limited Wifi. A cafe is not a coworking space although when beeing in USA or more specifically in SF I have the feeling people think it's the same.
  • Leynos 9y ago
    A place near me limits WiFi to 45 minutes at peak times, which I think is best. AC outlets on the other hand are for more than laptops. If I'm going somewhere for a coffee, it's good to be able to charge my phone too.
    • reycharles 9y ago
      > If I'm going somewhere for a coffee, it's good to be able to charge my phone too. Here it's more common you leave the phone at the bar to be recharged if charging your phone is what you want.
      • miranda_rights 9y ago
        Interesting. Do baristas check your identity or anything when giving your phone back? I'd worry about them turning their back and someone reaching over and grabbing it. There's a lot of crime in my area though - especially the "taking the phone out of your hand" kind.
  • Double_a_92 9y ago
    Why shouldn't it be if it fills some peoples need? Why should a cafe not offer that if it brings them customers?
    • therealmarv 9y ago
      It's the owners decision to make. Not mine or yours, it's his/her business. And it's definitely not making everybody happy ;)
    • adrianN 9y ago
• javadocmd 9y ago
  I have to imagine wallpapering over a functional power outlet is not up to code.
  • nickysielicki 9y ago
    The photographed lightswitch that is haphazardly installed on an open pattress with no cover is probably not up to code, either. However, it does add to the atmosphere.
• debatem1 9y ago
  There's a restaurant near me with a 5 cent cellphone charge that just doesn't get enforced. The simple fact that it is noted and low keeps people aware that it is a faux pas but not too grouchy about it (especially over a $150 dinner). Feels like a reasonable compromise in that environment.
• Double_a_92 9y ago
  More like "How to put off your paying customers and then complain that business isn't going well".
  • foepys 9y ago
    People working on their laptops are actually not a paying customer. Yes, they might come in and buy a single coffee but then they sit in a corner for 3 hours and occupy a seat that could go to other customers that are actually buying things that make a cafe money. It also has something to do with atmosphere. A cafe should have light chatter and people socializing. If the majority is sitting around in silence, it takes away from the special feeling a cafe normally has. I could get coffee at home for a fraction of the price.
    • anonytrary 9y ago
      > it takes away from the special feeling a cafe normally has If people start using Cafes differently, why hold them to a forgotten standard? Cafes should see a business opportunity in that they can align themselves further with the needs of the consumer. Either that, or the consumer walks.
      • xxs 9y ago
        They have to add some tariff per hour which feels unwelcome. There are co-working areas that do that but they are not labeled cafes
      • oneeyedpigeon 9y ago
        It's up to the cafe owner, really. If they want a cafe with a certain type of atmosphere, it's reasonable for them to take measures to achieve it.
        • anonytrary 9y ago
          Yeah, but Darwin resumes. Places that don't make it convenient to pull out a laptop might not see as much traffic in 2050.
• eecc 9y ago
  Well, in Amsterdam I was told to move by the window (were there was no space, all camped out by students) because me working on a laptop was not deemed “gezellig”. Fine, except that it was summer and everyone not wanting to work was basking in the sun on the terrace, inside was desolately empty. That’s to say: I agree it’s not cool to squat a table 3hrs for 5$, but sometimes these situations happen because it’s the house that’s run by a hipster wanker...
  • tobyhinloopen 9y ago
    In Amsterdam (and I assume every modern city) there are places you can actually rent a "desk" for a period of time. It is like a cafe with coffee & food, but with better seating and silent. Why not go there?
    • eecc 9y ago
      It was a one-off, I just need to do this quickly and home is busy?
• dawnerd 9y ago
  A cafe thats hostile towards their customers is a great way to get a bad review and a lost customer. If you don't want people working there don't provide tables or chairs.
  • oneeyedpigeon 9y ago
    Some people like to sit down, or rest their food on a flat surface. If you don't want people working there, take away the power, the WiFi, and play some music. Maybe even make the tables smaller, but don't take them away altogether!
  • tobyhinloopen 9y ago
    Wel it seems that café don't want "customers" that use their café as a workplace. You're a customer if you come in, grab a drink (with or without laptop) and leave shortly after you finish your drink.
• kylec 9y ago
  I think the problem isn't so much that people are using laptops in cafes, but that some people will linger for hours (usually on a laptop, but sometimes not) taking up a seat that could be used by someone else. Maybe a loosely-enforced 1-hour maximum loitering time might help to get more people cycling through?
  • KozmoNau7 9y ago
    Cafes are places where people go to hang out with their friends, sometimes talking for hours, even though they only bought one or two cups of coffee. A couple of years ago, I reconnected with a childhood friend, after about 10 years of living far apart and only having very sporadic contact. We spent 6 hours talking about everything and nothing, after we finished our burgers. I would have been extremely annoyed if the staff had decided to shoo us out of there after an hour.
    • collyw 9y ago
      Who's annoyance takes priority, you hogging a table for 6 hours annoying the owner, or you being annoyed when the owner kicked you out (or asked you to buy something) after a couple of hours?
      • KozmoNau7 9y ago
        Honestly, we simply lost track of time. But, the customer is always right. If it's not clearly signed that seating is time-limited, I will assume it is not. I have been at (rather popular, busy) restaurants where a waiter will politely inform you that they have another reservation on our table 30 minutes later, giving us time to finish up without feeling rushed. Perhaps it's just a polite way to get rid of lingering customers, but we certainly didn't feel as if we were thrown out. In a lot of cases, they'll even inform you beforehand that a reservation is for such and such time, usually 2 or 3 hours. That's perfectly fine and upfront, I certainly don't mind that. I don't go out to just eat and get the hell out. Conversation is absolutely a part of going out to eat, and people don't appreciate feeling rushed.
• MaxLeiter 9y ago
  In the Bay Area: A big-wig at Starbucks walked into one of the stores and witnessed a teen with a video game station set-up. Few weeks later, all the outlets were removed in order to discourage people from staying and working. Even with the change, the place is still constantly packed with people studying/working
  • RandallBrown 9y ago
    That seems counter to one of Starbucks corporate ideals, which is having Starbucks be your "third place." https://www.fastcompany.com/887990/starbucks-third-place-and-creating-ultimate-customer-experience https://www.fastcompany.com/887990/starbucks-third-place-and...
• CaliforniaKarl 9y ago
  OK, to the person who tore wallpaper in order to get to a power outlet, I really hope I never meet you, as I have absolutely no respect for you now. Do not destroy/deface someone else's property like that. And for the café, I know it's not a perfect solution, but beyond solutions like obtrusive locking outlet covers, or turning off outlets at the breaker, you could also look at swapping the outlet out with an L5-15R. That's the same voltage & amperage as a regular 5-15 receptacle, but uses a circular plug that pushes in and turns. You'll see them (or a similar amperage) on certain Metrolink (in LA) and Caltrain Bombardier cars. You could either get an adapter (NEMA L5-15P to 5-15R), or change out the plugs on the stuff you'd plug in (like vacuum cleaners). And no, it won't stop someone who is absolutely determined, and who is willing to go out and buy an adapter. But it makes it all the more obvious that this receptacle is not for people to use.
• CaliforniaKarl 9y ago
  I wonder how often places will change up their music as a way to shift things. The example I'm thinking of is Philz in Sunnyvale. Starting some time around the new year, every time I've been there they've been playing much harder & louder music. When I'm at a place, I prefer to be there without headphones, to show that I'm not completely disconnecting from the outside world. But with some of the music that's been playing, it's really hard to do, and so I've been avoiding it for the past month or so.
  • randycupertino 9y ago
    There's also a noticeable trend of tea shops and cafes buying more and more uncomfortable chairs to try and dissuade people from hanging around too long.
  • Mediterraneo10 9y ago
    > Every time I've been there they've been playing much harder & louder music. This is the trend across cafes in my city in Romania. It is not clear to me what the motivation is: the staff just say that they have been instructed to keep the music playing at all times and at a constant volume. Is it to discourage people from staying long? Or do the owners believe that you need to have loud dance music playing at all times in order to attract people? It’s just sad that we are losing the Central European tradition of cafes as quiet, intellectual places where one could stay for a long time with a book or pen and paper.
• randyrand 9y ago
  Why not just charge patrons per hour spent in the cafe? Is it really that bad of a business model?
  • paps 9y ago
    In France we have Anticafe[1]. They charge 5€ per hour spent there in exchange for unlimited wifi, coffee and pastries. As I understand it they're quite successful. They have opened multiple new cafes in Paris' central neighborhoods. [1] https://www.anticafe.eu/ https://www.anticafe.eu/
• uranusjr 9y ago
  I’m somewhat surprised by the article. There is recently a giant indi cafe boom in Taipei that made it one of the most developed cafe city in Asia, but almost all well-regarded shops do everything they could to keep the place as quiet as possible. Maybe it’s the introvert eastern Asian culture in play here, I don’t know. The article assumes it is abnormal for cafes to be taken over by silence, but I mean, it’s totally cool to build your cafe a social place, but it’s not an inherently bad thing if your customers want it to be quiet either. Maybe your customers actually want that—and if that’s the case (maybe it’s not, I don’t know, but if it is), it sucks to have another quiet place taken away.
  • randycupertino 9y ago
    I don't think it's the silence the owners really care about, it's more that people aren't paying and they hog the seats all day for the price of a $2 coffee.
    • uranusjr 9y ago
      Charge them, or install some kind of time limiting then. Cafes here either charge at least $5 for a coffee (note that wage in Taiwan is about half than the US), or would ask you to leave if you stay for 2 hours (they will tell you first, of course). If this is what the owner really cares about, I feel the article is solving the wrong problem.
      • randycupertino 9y ago
        > If this is what the owner really cares about, I feel the article is solving the wrong problem. True, but then again the hallmark of NYTimes aspirational twee writing is to harp on some wannabe hipster psuedo-retro twee bs - "Cafes are too silent!! People aren't interacting in social old fashioned ways! Nobody makes 3-week brine horseradish pickles anymore except for this one Fort Point Hassid who only works on the 8th Tuesday of the Month!!!" while simultaneously ignoring the common sense factors (Cafe owners are losing $$ because people use their cafes as free office space, and horseradish pickles be gross).
• badsectoracula 9y ago
  This article feels is one of the very few cases where i read something online and totally feels weird to me due to where i am from. In Greece coffee shops are really mainly places to hang out and staying for hours on a single coffee is pretty much normal and expected. There is a huge "coffee culture" here. Me and my friends would go for a coffee at 6pm (or later 7pm, due to jobs) and often leave at 11pm or sometimes 2am (note that many coffee shops, especially at the most popular areas in the bigger cities remain open from morning to very late at night and after some point they also start offering drinks). This was also one bit that i missed when i lived in other countries (i had a sort of culture shock one time when, visiting a mall a bit after work, i saw other people from work leaving from a beer outing at around 9pm or so :-P). Laptop users aren't seen very often in general though (and TBH with how noisy the shops are i doubt they'll ever be), although i live near a university and there is a coffee shop nearby with nice flat tables looking at the street and i often see students with laptops there. Also years ago, at my first gamedev job (although before i joined) on a startup, the team didn't had offices for a few months and the programming team mostly worked from laptops at the roof of a coffee shop :-P (and AFAIK generally all meetings with the entire team and everything were held in various coffee shops around the city). Of course all that means that there are tons of coffee shops everywhere and i remember when i lived abroad, my landlord - who visited Greece - telling me how strange he found that there were so many coffee shops. Personally i considered visiting a nearby coffee shop with my laptop a few times (there are 5 shops just 100m range, two right outside of my place), but i always change my mind because of the noise... and because i don't like working from a laptop :-P.
  • JorgeGT 9y ago
    > coffee shops are really mainly places to hang out Isn't that so in the US? I mean, the guys from Friends practically lived in that Central Perk coffee house.
    • jclardy 9y ago
      It is. But the issue is remote workers that go and take up a 4 person table with their laptop and a bunch of papers then sit there all day...meaning a group of 2-4 no longer has a place to hang out. I both work out of and hangout in coffee shops in the US, when working remote I make sure to always use the long community table if there are already a few seats used, or sit at the bar, or a two person table if I must. And if it is super busy and people are looking for seats I’ll go elsewhere.
• craigds 9y ago
  When I work from cafés I try to spend at least a few € every two hours, and avoid places that are overly busy (I don't like noise, but also if there's spare seats then I'm not costing anyone customers by sitting in one all day). Feels like common sense really - don't be an asshole.
  • pferde 9y ago
    Sadly, the always useful "don't be a douche" rule of thumb is something that very few people internalize lately.
• peteretep 9y ago
  > tore away the wallpaper to expose a purposely covered electrical outlet I think I'd have called the police
  • gpvos 9y ago
    At least a $50 bill for re-wallpapering.
• lifeformed 9y ago
  I work in cafes a lot and have my own code of conduct: - Don't work in a place that's really busy. If it becomes busy, I'll wrap up and move somewhere else. - Buy something at least every 2 hours. If I've had too many coffees, then decaf at least, or a pastry. Spend around $5 each time. - Tip! (Where appropriate). I like to add $1 for each purchase. - Get to know the employees. Learn their names and greet them.
  • ar0 9y ago
    I like the way it works in France: There, many coffee shops have set-up co-working rooms, which are separate rooms where you can rent a place by the hour. Yes, it is a bit more expensive (usually ~20$ for a day), but you get the same "coffee shop experience" and don't have to feel guilty or obliged to eat/drink (often not so healthy) stuff all the time.
    • miketery 9y ago
      This is great evolution! I like it.
  • kilroy123 9y ago
    Buying something every 2 hours seems excessive and expensive. I agree about the tipping well part.
    • lifeformed 9y ago
      I don't usually stay at a place more than 3 or 4 hours anyways, so it's just a midway refill point for me. I usually work the rest of the day at home, or switch to a new place if I want to stay out. Also, the amount to spend can scale with your budget; it seems more important to just to get up and buy something, just so you don't appear completely cut off from the rest of the world. I normally get espresso drinks, but sometimes I'll get a normal drip coffee, which usually has a cheaper refill ($3 for the first, and $1 for a refill), and I'll tip on each refill.
    • lap2 9y ago
• Jaruzel 9y ago
  If I recall correctly, many Wi-Fi hotspot systems can employ a MAC address block list. So that after X time, the laptop gets disconnected, and cannot reconnect for Y time afterwards. Obviously this can be circumvented by savvy users, but for non-technical remote workers, it's a good way to 'nudge' them on their way. I wonder why more places just don't employ this as a tactic?
  • eswat 9y ago
    > I wonder why more places just don't employ this as a tactic? Because they want to run a cafe, not a networking hub. Your typical owner isn’t going to be aware of turnkey solutions for this and would rather not spend money on a manager wifi provider to solve this.
• wjh_ 9y ago
  There's a place I often visit in Shoreditch called Ziferblat[0], and I think that they have something of a solution to this (they have other places too). Essentially, you are charged for your time and everything else is free. Presently I think it's about 7p per minute for the first hour, and then 4p a minute afterwards - there's also a cap. While in there, coffee, snacks, etc, are all "free". Perhaps this sort of model could work? Obviously if you're not willing to kick out all the remote workers. I guess this turns it into more of a coworking space though. [0]: http://www.ziferblat.co.uk/ http://www.ziferblat.co.uk/
  • lloeki 9y ago
    A similar place has opened over here. Billed by the hour or day. https://www.anticafe.eu/strasbourg https://www.anticafe.eu/strasbourg
  • slivym 9y ago
    This doesn't seem like it's a solution to the problem, it's just a different type of venue with the opposite problem. If I go in and grab a coffee and a crumpet they're not going to be very happy.
    • wjh_ 9y ago
      Pretty much. Perhaps billing per minute if you're going to stay for longer than an hour, or per item if you're staying for less. Though that seems overly complex and a logistical nightmare.
    • rorykoehler 9y ago
      Just have a 1 hour minimum fee.
• golergka 9y ago
  Anticafes. I was lucky enough to visit one of the first one (the whole idea originated in Moscow), and it's a wonderful cost-effective answer to the traditional idea of a cafe: just charge visitors for time on a fixed scale and provide all the snacks, beverages and entertainment for free.
  • tobyhinloopen 9y ago
    In major western cities (EG Amsterdam) there are places you can rent a workspace. It is like a café, but charged by the hour.
    • golergka 9y ago
      Anticafes are more of an entertainment place, with many people meeting with friends, playing board games and other stuff like that. Many freelance workers I know prefer cafes and anticafes to co-working spaces exactly because of this laidback, unofficial atmosphere.
• chippy 9y ago
  When I am touring the USA, (i.e. as a tourist) and enter a cafe and it's full of people heads down, earphones in, working, I walk out. It's not a nice space to be in. Even with music in the cafe, there is not the shared music in the customers. Why would I want to share a space with people who don't want to share with me? In the UK, it's reasonably uncommon to find people wearing earphones in cafes. Most cafes have a good selection of music. It's more common, at least around here, that those working on laptops are students doing work. Often they will meet their friends and work together. However, there are workers in these cafes too - and their etiquette is atrocious. I often see people leave their computers at the table, and head out to do some shopping in the local shops. Often they would have loud telephone conversations or conference calls. One even came back with their own food. When the cafe staff said "sorry, you cannot eat your own food here", they replied "oh, it's okay" as if the cafe were apologising! When I bring my laptop, I make sure I spend the same amount of time in the cafe as if I was using it as in any other way, and never over the lunch period when tables are at a premium. One drink per hour seems fair.
• blackflame7000 9y ago
  Turn on Fox News. That should get people talking
• Gys 9y ago
  > Cafe owners find it difficult to define a consistent strategy without a proven, profitable relationship model. Revenues seems the main objective of the cafe owners in this article. In Paris is a cafe [1] that solved this by giving out access passes if you want wifi. If you did not spend enough at the end of your session, you have to pay something extra. I was there several times having lunch and staying most of the day without having to pay extra. Really liked the place, also because this system helps to not feel guilty ;-) [1] http://cafe-craft.com/home/ http://cafe-craft.com/home/
• Xcelerate 9y ago
  I live in Knoxville, and we’re up to about 10 independent little coffee shops, with the bulk of them having opened in the last few years. Most of the owners don’t seem to mind people on their laptops, but then again, there is a university nearby so I’d say about 90% of people in the coffee shops are on their laptops focusing on school work. Most of my research in grad school was completed at these places. That said, I normally don’t stay longer than 3 hours at any individual coffee shop, particularly if there’s a lack of seats for new customers. I also generally tip $2-3 — more if I buy a pastry. You can typically tell which places are amenable to laptops because they have an outlet at every seat. I think remote work will only increase over time, and I’m sure there are other people like me who focus much better in a coffee shop with strangers and music than in an open office. I’d really like to open my own coffee shop one day with ample seating and a sign that says “laptops and conversation both welcome”.
  • heartbreak 9y ago
    I briefly needed to stay in Maryville (~3 months) while remote working, but I had no real workspace in my extended stay. I should mail the owner of Vienna a co-work space sized check for the amazing service she and her coffee shop provided while I worked there every day. +1 for the people and especially the coffee shops in that area.
• scarface74 9y ago
  I don't work in coffee shops - or drink coffee for that matter - but I do take long lunches at times at restaurants just to just take a break during the middle of the day and take my iPad and go through my RSS aggregator. There is something relaxing about the combination of being around other people and still not having to interact with them. I don't get it either. It's the same way about going to the gym. On one hand, after I stopped teaching fitness classes part time and working out with friends, going to the gym became a chore. I like working out at home and converted one of our bedrooms to a mini gym. I love the convenience, but kind of miss just working out on the gym equipment around other people even if I never talk to them. Maybe it's the sense of shared purpose?
  • csomar 9y ago
    > There is something relaxing about the combination of being around other people and still not having to interact with them. I don't get it either. We are social animals. At least most of us. If you go for a few days with no interaction/seeing other human beings you'll go crazy.
    • scarface74 9y ago
      I'm married with a teenage son so it's not about being isolated. But it takes mental energy for me to actual interact with people. Being alone in a crowd is sometimes the best of both worlds. I get to be around other people and don't feel isolated but I can also relax and don't have to interact.
    • craftyguy 9y ago
      > If you go for a few days with no interaction/seeing other human beings you'll go crazy. I've done solo backpacking trips for more than 'a few days', and I did not go crazy. I think there's a difference between choosing isolation and being forced into it (the later probably contributes to insanity, not the former)
  • Froyoh 9y ago
    > RSS aggregator Why do you still choose to use them today?
• nsb1 9y ago
  There's probably a market for a table surface that's just uneven enough to make a laptop wobble, but with large enough flat spaces for small plates or coffee mugs. Maybe some raised metal domes/rivets of slightly different heights placed strategically on the tabletops.
  • rocky1138 9y ago
    You may be interested in "unpleasant design": https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/unpleasant-design-hostile-urban-architecture/ https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/unpleasant-design-hos... Personally my feeling is that this is the wrong direction for society to go.
• nkrisc 9y ago
  Good for the owner, I guess, but why do I have to talk to people wherever I go? Why is being alone with your thoughts considered antithetical to being out in public? I don't mind being around other people but sometimes I just don't want to talk to them. I stopped finding "awkward silences" awkward long ago. Silence is ok. FWIW, I'm not usually on my laptop in public.
• robotmay 9y ago
  This is such a bizarre stance. "Finish up what you’re doing and close the laptop, please" would have me leave a venue immediately and never return. In the UK the concept of people taking up space in coffee shops and not spending enough is not limited to people on laptops. You're just as likely to see an entire crowd of teenagers with one drink between them, or a group of mothers with pushchairs hanging about for hours (though I suspect the mother groups are good customers to have). Personally I make sure I buy something at least every 30-45 minutes, and then relocate somewhere else if it gets busy. Cafes are rarely busy during the work day, so it's not like I'm depriving them of space. But I've never come across a cafe with the approach of the ones in the article. Pretentious nonsense like that doesn't survive long here. If you want people to spend more money, ask them to leave if they haven't bought anything within the last hour. That's a simple rule that's easy to enforce, don't just blame a subset of customers.
  • JoeAltmaier 9y ago
    You have to find the space that's compatible with your needs. Don't blame the no-laptop space for being what it is, any more than the laptop-friendly one. Perhaps its not just about spending money. A coffee shop is (by some people's ideas) a place for folks to socialize. Those other 'offenders' are socializing, so are compatible with those spaces. Sitting in silence at a machine makes for a boring space, which drives away the other sort of customer.
    • robotmay 9y ago
      I can understand that. I don't think I've come across many shops near me that don't have a good mix of different people in there during the day, though. I've been in one recently that was largely empty aside from people at laptops, but it was 4pm and everywhere was quiet. Cardiff is pretty chill, however, and I've not yet come across the situation described in the parent article. But we do get hip trends about 5 years after everyone else!
    • anonacct37 9y ago
      We can discuss what they are doing and also vote with our money. I'd hate to be kicked out of a shop because I'm reading a book. Or not talking. As you said: maybe it's their right to require socializing, but that doesn't make it a good idea.
• billfruit 9y ago
  I haven't read the full article because of the paywall, but I do not find sitting down with a laptop much different to sitting down with a book at the café. If the smaller cafes are suffering, they could charge an hourly sitting charge.
• soapdog 9y ago
  I have been a remote worker for more than 10 years and I love coffee shops. Here in Brazil, coffee is a big part of our culture, so much that we don't even think about it very much as it is a part of our lives since we're young (note: yes, all generalization is wrong and of course there are many Brazilians who don't drink coffee but on average we do). Coffee shops has always been my favorite working places. Here in Niterói (sister city of Rio), I know basically all the coffee shops in walking distance from my home and their owners. We became friends after spending long long hours in their shops to the point that they routinely reach out to me and other frequent customers for opinions and health checks about their business. I try to occupy a two-seat table if possible but in cases where none is available I will move to a larger table. I always buy coffee and usually something to eat, if I stay long hours, I try to keep ordering stuff every now and then. Sometimes I don't but since I go there multiple times a week, my orders average out as being a good customer they want to keep. On my favorite place, which has the amazing name of "Dice'n'Roll Coffee Tales", they are a different kind of coffee shop. They have board games and comics, two of my passions, and attract a lot of "geek" crowd. They have a "pass" you need to buy if you're going to play games, there are multiple types of "passes" depending on if the game is theirs or yours, and if you pay a bit extra, all that amount of money is converted into food and drinks of your choice, so basically it is a commitment to buy food and drinks. During weekends and Fridays, which are the times when the house is usually at full capacity, they ask that the remote workers also buy passes and if possible, group together in tables instead of one on each table. Mostly recurring clients are OK with this approach, those who are not, usually don't come back, but I have seen this happening only once. The pass we all buy costs USD 8 per day and all that becomes credit to buy stuff, so with that money, I usually get a couple coffees and one ice tea. Usually we all end up spending more than USD 8 at the end of the day and being grouped together on weekends makes for great networking (also every now and then, we pick a game to play). All that story to tell one thing, that some coffee shops are about building community and getting people together. Not all places subscribe to the notion that you need $X customers per hour paying $M or we go bankrupt. I see these articles about coffee shops in New York that reduce everything to math. Let me tell everyone one advise, "if you do the math, you'd never open a coffee shop", those are really hard to maintain and keep afloat. I've seen dozen shops come and go, the ones that remain open are the ones that will make people welcome and cater to the remote workers, or groups of friends, or whoever wants to make those shops a part of their lives.
• pingec 9y ago
  It's very easy to avoid any problems when working in a cafe. Upon entering simply ask if it is okay to order a drink or two and work on your laptop. If they say no just try another place. And it depends a lot on culture / country / area as well. In Slovenia I have never asked as long as there were empty seats still available. It is common for people to hang at a place long after the last order. In my opinion it even adds to the atmosphere because the cafe or restaurant is less empty. On the other hand I was in a group of 4 at a Tokyo cafe which was 90% empty and we were asked to make a new order or leave 30 minutes after the last order.
• sebringj 9y ago
  You have to wonder how its sustainable though if you have people just sitting there taking up space, not paying. I work remotely and I see this and have been wondering for years. Just because something is a norm doesn't make it profitable or just makes sense for business owners. You are essentially loitering at some point and if there was a way to monitor time without it being awkward and also profitable, I'm all for that. This is the only venue where its been culturally acceptable to be a freeloader. Totally against the grain here I guess.
• arca_vorago 9y ago
  Am I the only one who wishes for the return of the Internet Cafe? If even better, the Lan gaming cafe? There's something so nostalgic about back in the early pc gaming days, when my high-school computer club would do a lockin and we would eat pizza and have surge or blue balls and game the night away. More on subject, the real problem IMHO is most coffee shops just don't have much room. The Internet cafes were always pretty big and usually had half high cubicle walls for privacy.
  • arca_vorago 9y ago
    Bawls* darn autocorrect
• rundigen12 9y ago
  Reading this is surreal, like Opposite World. You are selling me on quiet, wifi & power, at the price of your fancy coffee (and preferably even real food), so I can work/read/study in nice atmosphere. Why else would I tolerate paying nearly $6 for a latte and $5 for a muffin? If all I want is to get coffee itself and immediately hit the road, I can go to coffee stand or vending machine. "Your $3 coffee doesn't entitle you to sit for an hour." First, perhaps I'm typically more than the average user, $3 coffee sounds either horrid or a miracle. Second: Why not? Isn't that the whole point? You're luring me to come in & buy your wares so that I get the benefit of sitting for a while and do my thing, whether it's read a book or work on my laptop. To the people who see silence & laptops as bad in and of themselves: who are you to prioritize talkers over non-talkers? In my mind and those of many near-university dwellers, cafes are precisely for sitting, reading, working, not for having (sometimes loud) conversations that disturb those around you. Finally, I'm not aware of "taking up space", as there are typically multiple empty tables at the (independent, non-Starbucks) coffee shops I go to. Maybe this article applies to high-volume areas & times, but I'm not interested in such places anyway. TL/DR: If you ban people working and studying on laptops, that will just be even less revenue for your establishment, because that is the only reason many of us showed up. Ration out the wifi with time limits and access codes on receipts if you like, I'm fine with that, otherwise just be happy I'm there rather than having yet another empty table.
  • jonnycomputer 9y ago
    You should be able to get a decent cup of coffee for $3. Either you live in a really expensive coffee market, or you have really ... high standards. I find the idea that cafes are not for socializing pretty out there.
  • PascLeRasc 9y ago
    Did you read the article? Coffeeshop owners are not open office landlords, they want to cultivate a cultural hub for the local area. Yes, to them conversationalists are more interesting than non-talkers, not to mention that it feels awkward to be the only one talking in a room of people not talking. If you want a quiet space with wifi and power, work from home, rent an office, or go to the library.
• jonnycomputer 9y ago
  I like to work at coffee shops. Its true. But I don't blame coffee shop owners, especially in high-rent areas, for complaining about coffee shop workers. First, when they start a business, they likely have an idea of what they'd like to see it become. Running a place like a cafe isn't likely just a business proposition for them; its a cultural one. Maybe they like the idea of their cafe being a hub of social and cultural activity, full of quirky personalities, artists, and political theorists; rather than remote white collar work spaces. Also, they've got to pay the bills, and their margins are pretty thin.
  • roymurdock 9y ago
    Similar dynamic at the boxing gym I go to. The owner is a real boxing guy, but he knows the suburban moms and cardio/aerobics classes pay the bills. He's managed to find a good balance, training a few competitive fighters and putting on a few fights a year, but he could be making so much more money doing the whole volume aerobic/kickboxing model. We joke about the Title franchise gyms that have sparring rings for display purposes...but in the end that's what makes reliable money. Gotta respect those that go out of their way to foster unique culture at the expense of "good business", its a rarity these days
    • rconti 9y ago
      The true enthusiasts rarely pay the bills. For one, people really dedicated to a certain hobby typically don't have the money that the casual folks do. For another, they know the cost/value of the service. People building their own gaming rigs aren't paying local computer stores' markup. Ski bums have cheap season passes, get way more than their money's worth, and pack a lunch rather than pay $20 for a cheeseburger; only tourists pay $120 a day for one-day-pass. And so on.
      • compiler-guy 9y ago
        It's also a pure numbers game. The number of people who just want kickboxing-cardio is much greater than the number of serious fighters. The number of casual skiers is much greater than the number of ski bums. Mathematically, although a business owner might love the serious hobbyists, usually, there just aren't enough of them to pay the bills. That's why really serious pro-level coaching and training is so expensive: they can't spread their costs among enough customers to make it cheap for everyone.
• jonnycomputer 9y ago
  If its just revenue, then I think the alternative is to charge for wifi, for time-in-seat. e.g. here is your table. its yours for $8/hour. House coffee free. Anything else, go to the front.
  • rocky1138 9y ago
    I came to the comments to recommend a subscription model as well. If it's a great place, I would mind doing this at all.
  • travisjungroth 9y ago
    There's a place like this in SF: http://www.workshopcafe.com/ http://www.workshopcafe.com/ . Their location in the Financial District (I imagine the rent is high) is only $2/hr. So, it doesn't have to be much.
    • Woofles 9y ago
      The other model I found interesting is the Capital One Cafe. It's a Peet's inside, but they offer banking services and ATMs as well. They have plenty of space and outlets at every table, seemingly at the cost of your eyeballs on their materials. Obviously not every coffee shop wants to be corporate, but for workers it's pretty nice.
• deckar01 9y ago
  There is a restaurant in Tulsa call JJ's Gourmet Burgers. It is famous for it's eccentric owner enthusiastically kicking customers out of his restaurant for not abiding by his unwritten rules. The place has been around since the 70s. The owner decided how he wanted his restaurant to be used and he was rewarded with a loyal following and a steady stream of curious customers.
• lasermike026 9y ago
  I worked in the restaurant space for many years... technology in the restaurant space. That's a very interesting story too. Running a restaurant or cafe is pure social engineering. Because you control the environment you can influence the behavior of customers that occupy that space. Restaurants and cafes are a hospitality industry. You must treat your guests like kings and queens. But you also have to make money. Margins are razor thin. You can change the mood and behavior of a place with music and lighting alone. If the customers are too sedentary crank up the music and make it a fast pace. Turn up the lighting. It gets people moving. Send waiters out and ask customers if they need any thing. Be nice, cheerful, and helpful. They will realize that this isn't an office. If you have a problem with laptops you can kill the wifi and power. A better way would be to work with the laptops and devices. Give people an opportunity to spend. Make it work for you. Offer them technology to use! That's what I helped do.
• featherverse 9y ago
  You can't do anything. The future is one where everyone is soulless and dead and life goes on in a mechanical and unfriendly way, for example a cafe of people staring at their laptops. Your best bet is to leave, because if you stick around and disturb the peace you're likely to find yourself in a bad way. Seriously tho, people work in cafes to escape the idiotic banter of their offices. Let them have their peace. They're paying you aren't they?
• mywittyname 9y ago
  This problem is really a business opportunity. Each purchase earns 30 minutes of Wifi. After that, you have to pay like $0.008/minute for it. Just have them setup a credit card when they log online.
• greggarious 9y ago
  Weird how HN is very libertarian and supportive of the idea business owners should be able to set rules in their business... until it interferes with them parking for 5 hours with a 3 dollar Americano.
  • grzm 9y ago
    > "Weird how HN is ..." Please just leave generalizations like this out of conversation. HN is more than just the comments that catch your eye or those who choose to comment on a particular submission. You yourself choose to be a part of HN. Would you ascribe these same attributes to yourself? Or those that other commenters mention when they make similar generalizations? There are plenty of comments in the threads for this submission which indicate that there is no consensus around the topic.
    • greggarious 9y ago
      >HN is more than just the comments that catch your eye or those who choose to comment on a particular submission. You yourself choose to be a part of HN. Would you ascribe these same attributes to yourself? Yes, but I'd describe myself as left-libertarian (to put it on the political compass), whereas a large part of HN is hanging out in the bottom-right. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_compass https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_compass
  • none_to_remain 9y ago
    There is no contradiction in this - supporting business' ability to make such rules does not require approving of every specific rule.
• aleph4 9y ago
  I don't see this as a purely financial decision. A coffee shop here in Austin recent re-introduced Wifi after years of famously not having it. Presumably, this was because they were lacking the business from the laptop crowd. Obviously, use common sense and courtesy. Don't take up a large table. Don't teleconference. Buy a something regularly if you plan to stay a while. Don't bring outside food in. Having said that, I welcome coffee shops that choose not to have wifi. But frankly, I'm less likely to go to them.
• turc1656 9y ago
  The problem that gets touched upon by the article but never really explicitly stated is simple - these people are using a retail business as their office space. And they are doing so without a contract which guarantees the business owner any income. They are basically left running like a charity, in the hopes that these poachers will be gracious enough to throw enough money at them so they can stay afloat (which then requires them to produce food/drink, so it's worse/less than a charity). It doesn't matter if the cafe is mostly empty during a work day. They are taking advantage of the situation and the business. Many of the cafe owners want to create a certain environment, one of social interaction that is designed to be a pleasurable experience. I totally understand why they don't want to have zombies sitting there all day. Why don't these people either work from home or one of these shared workspace places that have become popular in recent years? I presume they want to get out of the house but also don't want to pay what is surely a higher amount of money to get a shared space. The article mentions that it was $100 more than that one person spends regularly on their cafe budget. I find that hard to believe that it can be that cheap, but apparently it is based on a quick search I just did. But that extra $100 also comes with 1) a contract and 2) no food/drink.
  • guiomie 9y ago
    I completely agree. I usually go to Workshop Cafe in SF to work in a "coffeeshop". Everytime I go in a coffee shop to work, it feels awkward from a convenience (lack power, wifi or space) and social perspective.
    • icc97 9y ago
      I never use power, the laptop battery lasts 3 hours which is as long as I stay. If there's no space I typically wouldn't stay. I just use my phone as a WiFi hotspot if the cafe doesn't have any. But yeah I get kind of odd looks from one of the café owners, although he's the one who has the least customers.
  • icc97 9y ago
    The local co-working space costs the same as about 3 euros an hour, so the same as a coffee. But the co-working space is a 25 minute cycle which requires clothes and preparation and the coffee shops are 10 minutes. There's practically no one in the co-working space and it's not much difference to working at home. Further I'm really focused in a coffee shop, stick headphones on and some how the noise helps me work constantly whilst there, for typically 2 hours max. Almost entirely I'm the only one on a laptop. I come first thing in the morning when there's lots of empty tables.
• wink 9y ago
  Maybe I'm the outlier but I've "just sat down" to have a coffee and stare into the abyss like three times in my life. Either I'm there with friends or I need to kill an hour or two and work. In the latter case I have a laptop and in the former case I'm not alone and wouldn't ver take out the laptop. Either it's purely WTF or in some cafes it must be really bad with the people working for hours, I've hardly noticed them here where I live.
• sillypog 9y ago
  Berkeley is tackling this issue with a “back on the street by the end of the day” approach to prosecuting laptop thefts. They also have a game cafe where you pay $5 an hour to sit and play board games. I’ve never seen anyone whip out their laptop instead but that would be a pretty cheap coworking option.