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In Baltimore, Brazen Officers Took Every Chance to Rob and Cheat
- phren0logy 9y agoSo I guess "The Wire" was basically a documentary?
- 893helios 9y agoIt was written by David Simon..so yeah https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Simon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Simon
- atwebb 9y agoThe creator worked the city desk/homicide reporting for 12 years @ the Baltimore Sun. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Simon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Simon
- rexreed 9y agoYes it basically is based on true stories. I live in Baltimore, I should say just lived, because I just moved out. The city is every bit as corrupt, dangerous, and malicious as it's made out to be. Don't want anything further to do with this city. And the folks here were delirious thinking that Amazon was going to set up HQ2.
- wambotron 9y agoI've always liked Baltimore, but I never lived there. I used to visit every year when I lived up North, but since moving to Richmond, I haven't been up at all. I kind of miss the weird grittiness it has.
- soylentcola 9y agoYep. Been living here for around 12-13 years and it's definitely a mixed bag. Plenty not to like about it, but that can be said for many cities with the sort of history as this one. Not planning to move anytime soon (partly because I love living close to work and partly because it's a relatively affordable city compared to some others in the region. Suburbs aren't for me and I guess on some Sisyphean level, I don't like the idea of just moving because it's got problems. When the only people who don't flee to the 'burbs are those who are unable, you get issues like this city's been seeing for years.
- throwaway_bmore 9y agoBeen here for almost 4 and agree about the affordability aspect. You could buy a rowhome less than 3 miles from O's stadium for like 250k in a not-terrible neighborhood.
- nsnick 9y agoBut the crab cakes are so good!
- ch4s3 9y agoI also recently moved away (I wonder if we know one another), in the last 18 months , and was blown away by everyone's collective delusions about Amazon. With the police terrorizing most communities, the lack of heat in the schools, and the delay in bike plan implementation to 2020+, I can't believe anyone thought it was even a remote possibility.
- wehadfun 9y ago>the lack of heat in the schools https://twitter.com/AaronMMaybin/status/948632894699921409 https://twitter.com/AaronMMaybin/status/948632894699921409
- nradov 9y agoThe inner harbor area seems safe enough and has interesting tourist sites including several museum ships.
- oh_sigh 9y agoBased on true stories, and if it wasn't a British guy cast in a lead role you would find a lot of the actual local 'personalities' in the show.
- savanaly 9y agoThe situation sounds much more like The Shield. The Wire was focused on institutional problems. It was more interested in the tragedy that incentives in the police force and city government were such that barely an iota of thought was ever given as to how to actually fix the problems of the city. Instead most work was expended in public relations efforts, cooking the books and ass covering. There was one storyline in season 1 where Herc and Carver thought about pocketing some drug money instead of turning it in as evidence, but they ended up giving it back didn't they? The Shield on the other hand..
- roymurdock 9y agoYeah, main character(s) of the Wire were "good police" which is what caused many of them to self destruct trying to get actual police work done in a setting where politics was more important than justice. These guys don't exactly sound like good police: "The unit, whose purpose was to get guns off the street, even stole and sold guns."
- bcassedy 9y agoThey think about stealing but realize that they might get caught due to the wiretap. In a later season when they're taking part in a raid with a dead wiretap and no risk of being caught after the fact, they do take the money. The entire 5th season has most of the department cooking the books to get their overtime pay.
- nsnick 9y agoIt is not exactly the same because real Baltimore cops would not even consider the possibility of being caught and know that if they were, nothing would happen to them.
- thirdsun 9y ago> They think about stealing but realize that they might get caught due to the wiretap. If I remember correctly they still and accidentally lose some of that money in the back of their car. Lt. Daniels notices and tells them to bring it it back. They find it, but it looks bad regardless of their honest intentions. ("Do you think he believed us?" - "Would you?")
- thirdsun 9y agoIn light of those current issues I wish David Simon would revisit Baltimore and "The Wire". However I guess he's busy with "The Deuce" these days.
- joering2 9y agoThe fallout from the gun task force scandal has been substantial. Baltimore state’s attorney has dropped at least 125 criminal cases related to the task force and continues to investigate others. The public defender’s office estimates that the number of tainted cases is likely closer to 3,000.
- nyolfen 9y agoreally just incredible. how do you reform something so broken? a clean sweep? bring in the feds?
- arkitaip 9y agoThey haven't been able to reform the Baltimore Police for decades. They need an external org under federal control with the task of weeding out, prosecuting and controlling the police.
- Gibbon1 9y agoI've tried rolling that over, some smaller corrupt police departments the town will close the department and lay everyone off and contract with the county sheriffs or a neighboring city.
- rossdavidh 9y agoIn the 19th century, the state of New York had to do something like that with New York City. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Police_riot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Police_riot
- nsnick 9y agoThey should probably consider doing that again.
- pstuart 9y ago> how do you reform something so broken? a clean sweep? bring in the feds? Both.
- bob_theslob646 9y agoWhy is there not more transparency? It makes zero sense. What is going to stop something like this occuring again? Officers going to jail?
- gr3yh47 9y ago>What is going to stop something like this occuring again? Officers going to jail? wrongdoings by officers are mostly handled internally with administrative leave aka paid vacation
- jacquesm 9y agoThat's a reward, not a punishment.
- na85 9y agoExactly.
- acchow 9y agoDo you have data to support this claim? What proportion get paid leave vs. fired (or jailed)
- gr3yh47 9y agono empirical data, just following news and seeing overwhelmingly that officers do not get jailed and almost never get fired
- probablynot 9y agoYou have to figure if the most public and controversial cases result in a halfassed investigation and some paid vacation, the ones that never make the news probably don't even go that far.
- logfromblammo 9y ago
- sean_anandale 9y agoThis is what happens when you have "plainclothes detectives", aka secret police.
- jacquesm 9y agoThere is a vast gulf between 'plainclothes detectives' and 'secret police'.
- youdontknowtho 9y agoUmmm...I don't know if 'vast' is what I would use there, but there's a difference.
- jacquesm 9y agoThe difference is that a secret police is used by a dictatorship to keep the dictator in power by systematically attacking the opposition and any grass roots movements. Plainclothes detectives are simply police that are not in uniform ('undercover'), they are still part of the regular police force.
- maxerickson 9y agoDetectives that just wear civilian clothes aren't quite undercover though. Much of what they do will involve identifying themselves as police (which is not a cover, it's fact). In the US at least, "undercover" implies that they are not identifying themselves as police.
- jacquesm 9y agoRight, sorry about that, so strike the 'undercover' bit, too late to edit.
- skellera 9y agoObviously not to the same extent but, in that general area, you seem to have described what’s going on there. The police there are a mafia and people who look to damage them have ended up dead.
- peterwwillis 9y agoThe article doesn't mention how Detective Sean Suiter was shot in the head the day before he was to testify for the grand jury against the task force officers. FWIW, this was not news to the residents of Baltimore. They have been talking about this for over 25 years. Anyone who listened could hear about it. Nobody really gave a shit. A friend of mine grew up in East Baltimore. They would sit outside on their stoop, because the parents didn't want them inside, and there was no place to play outside other than in the street - no playgrounds, no trees, no parks, no back yards. Sometimes cops would roll up on their corner, get out, and question them about what they were doing. "We're sitting." They were told to empty their pockets. If they had any money on them, the police would confiscate it and drive off. Re: "one of the most startling police corruption scandals in a generation" - they aren't mentioning how Baltimore City Detention Center was literally controlled entirely by the Black Guerrilla Mafia for 20 years. 44 employees and inmates were arrested in a sting operation a few years ago. Or how the city's police used aerial and other surveillance methods (thanks, FBI) to tap and track mobile phones without a warrant or court order. Other recent controversies involve the wrongful death of Freddie Gray, planting drugs on a suspect on camera, and a US Justice Department report condemning the BCPD for "violating the constitutional rights of citizens, using excessive force, and discriminating against African Americans".
- Floegipoky 9y agoDOJ report: https://www.justice.gov/opa/file/883366/download https://www.justice.gov/opa/file/883366/download
- millzlane 9y ago>A friend of mine grew up in East Baltimore. They would sit outside on their stoop, because the parents didn't want them inside, and there was no place to play outside other than in the street - no playgrounds, no trees, no parks, no back yards. Sometimes cops would roll up on their corner, get out, and question them about what they were doing. "We're sitting." They were told to empty their pockets. If they had any money on them, the police would confiscate it and drive off. Same experience I've had. I currently still live here. My zip code has a lower life expectancy than Yemen,and North Korea.
- millermp12 9y agoQuis custodiet ipsos custodes? Fortunately, there is no Deep State. Because that would be crazy.
- staunch 9y agoThe first two federal officers involved in a Bitcoin-related investigation (Silk Road) stole the money and tried to cover it up. Which shows just how bad US law enforcement culture is. People like this can, and should be, filtered out. At some point I hope to see a #MeBlue social campaign by good cops to out bad cops.
- paulie_a 9y agoI personally think some police abuse should be considered treason and handled appropriately via those laws. Same for political corruption
- anarazel 9y agoArticle three of the US constitution: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort." I'm not arguing that treason / corruption aren't worthy of increased focus, but your proposal doesn't seem to be it. There's also these pesky anti anti-corruption / pro "free speech" SCOTUS cases :(
- paulie_a 9y agoI totally understand that currently it is not possible. My personal opinion is that the scope should be widened carefully in a limited way for aggregious public corruption. It's not an easy answer by any means but should be addressed with harsh penalties for some situations
- anarazel 9y agoI don't understand why it makes sense to tie corruption to treason. It's a specifically defined thing in the constitution and it's already bandied about way to easily in a political manner. Fixing corruption law (including SCOTUS precedent) is very hard, no need to add very debatable issues additionally.
- s73ver_ 9y ago
- southphillyman 9y agoBaltimore police were stealing drugs from Baltimore dealers and selling the stolen drugs to dealers in Philadelphia. Hard to believe actions like that were taking place in the U.S. Sounds like something straight out of a Narcos episode.
- jdavis703 9y agoThis has been going on for decades, across the country. See also the Rampart Scandal [0] and the Allen v. City of Oakland [1] case in which cops in LA and Oakland respectively, robbed, beat kidnapped and otherwise victimized citizens. I hate to think what happens in small cities and towns where this stuff is even harder to report. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rampart_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rampart_scandal 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_v._City_of_Oakland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_v._City_of_Oakland
- nkurz 9y agoI hate to think what happens in small cities and towns where this stuff is even harder to report. I'm not sure. I'm more familiar with the small town side of society, and I'd guess that it's much easier to hide this sort of behavior in a larger city. There's much less anonymity in a small town, and keeping this sort of behavior going would require "buy in" from the entire police force rather than just a nucleus of corrupt officers. So while the small town police force might be more likely to abuse civil forfeiture against out-of-town drivers, I'd be surprised if this level of corruption targeting residents would be possible in a smaller department.
- dragontamer 9y agoA larger town / city has organized groups of lawyers who primarily exist to defend you from police abuses. To take Baltimore as an example: https://civilrights.baltimorecity.gov/civilian-review-board https://civilrights.baltimorecity.gov/civilian-review-board There is the civilian review board, paid for by city taxes, who do nothing but review cases of police abuse and take said officers to court. That's how stories like the parent story become widely known. So the question is: would you rather live in Baltimore, where these things are reported AND there are powers that can help you with these problems... or would you rather be in Small Town America where the Sheriff is the de-facto ruler and you ain't got nuthing against him? --------- Anyway, the main issue with Baltimore cops is that they're grossly underpaid. If they live 30 minutes away in a slightly richer area, they can get a higher-paycheck, AND get higher-respect from the community. Baltimore cops are in a tough spot right now. Morale is low, paychecks are low, and everyone sees them as villains (especially after "The Wire"). Why be a Baltimore cop when suburbia is safer, pays better, and earns more respect? As such, the cops who stay in Baltimore are usually the ones who can't leave for whatever reason. "Good Cops" go elsewhere, there's basically a "brain drain" on decent cops in Baltimore, and I'm unsure how the city is supposed to move forward.
- olivermarks 9y agoAdding to this common problem in larger metropolitan police forces in the US is their rapid militarization. Shaking down kids while cruising around in a black and white is one thing. Being equipped with military gear including armored cars opens up a whole new level of control issues. http://www.businessinsider.com/photos-the-rook-armored-caterpillar-vehicle-swat-teams-police-usa-iacp-2017-10 http://www.businessinsider.com/photos-the-rook-armored-cater...
- jacquesm 9y ago> Shaking down kids while cruising around in a black and white is one thing. Being equipped with military gear including armored cars opens up a whole new level of control issues. I'm not sure which one of those two does more damage to society in the longer term. The second obviously has problems but the first chips away at the foundations and I suspect that long term that one will have far more potential to do damage.
- olivermarks 9y agoThe ongoing debate between moderates and the far right in Israel is an extreme example of this control issue. The 'Rook' mentioned in the link is built on a caterpillar chassis, as is the case with the armored devices Israel uses to destroy Palestinian homes and schools. http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/IDF-destroys-two-illegal-EU-funded-Palestinian-schools-503252 http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/IDF-destroys-two-... A caption of one of the linked photos about the Rook at the Philadelphia police equipment convention - 'The last attachment is the grapple claw, which can remove fortified doors and burglar bars and even be used to remove debris from natural disasters'. Surely natural disasters and helping people comes first not, as an afterthought....
- ColanR 9y agoThe big problem is when the police officers that enjoy shaking down kids are equipped with military gear. That is a scary thought.
- deleted 9y ago
- Nilzor 9y agoI have a strong suspicion this isn't limited to Baltimore. Not sure what they expected when they show officers they can get away with just about anything with little more than a slap on the wrist.
- millzlane 9y agoDoes a citizen have any legal recourse or entitled to compensation if a citizen's house was raided multiple times on false pretenses or a fabricated warrant by these fine upstanding officers (The ones being indicted)? I'm asking for a friend.. :-/
- devmunchies 9y agoTell your friend to ask a lawyer and not a web forum.
- joe_the_user 9y agoIanal and couldn't answer any particular in your case. I do have a lawyer friend who makes a regular income suiting the Oakland police department. The broader issue is naturally the police have a lot of leverage on your average court system, police are often not liable for even the most egregious mistake, only actual malice is required and occasionally then legal contortions can justify various behaviors and so-forth. But even more, if someone wins a suit against the police of town X, town X pays the fine and that money comes out of money for parks and libraries of town X, not say, from the pay of cops of town X, who can thus merrily ignore even a successful suit.
- millzlane 9y ago
- utopcell 9y agoAt the risk of oversimplifying, I believe increasing crime rate is a good proxy for police corruption. As an example, East Palo Alto in CA was the crime capital of the country back in the 90s. Then a police force that included parties from surrounding cities was formed to address it and now the city is essentially crime-free.
- DrScump 9y agothe city is essentially crime-free I think you are misreading a source. Homicide has decreased, but most other crime has increased.
- utopcell 9y agoI don't think I've come across any report that states that other crime has increased in EPA. What is your source ? Incidentally, I think that declining crime rates are, among other things, also a sign of a ``clean'', efficient police force.
- masonic 9y agoa sign of a ``clean'', efficient police force Or, that the substantial gentrification going on there over the last decade has changed the demographics substantially.
- ende 9y agoQuis custodiet ipsos custodes? There needs to be an independent police force to police the police. Internal affairs is a joke, and the interests of DAs are too closesly aligned with police to be a reliable check.
- hhanesand 9y agoNo wonder citizens in these areas are suspicious of the police...
- andrepd 9y agoFunny, I started watching The Wire 2 days ago. Judging by this piece, it seems the claims to unflinching realism are warranted.
- paul7986 9y agoReally Baltimore's not as bad as the Wire, the riots and this story. As with any city it's best you avoid certain crime ridden areas, but other then that it's great! The low cost of living in the surrounding counties and Govt IT jobs where salary ranges from 120 to 250k are fairly plentiful. Also, traffic isnt too bad, there is a tech scene, a startup scene and good amount to do in and outside of the city.
- backtoyoujim 9y agoHow can you avoid places like that if your mom or dad can only afford places there ?
- doktrin 9y agoI almost never say shit like this, but you are clearly speaking from a position of significant privilege. Obviously the cops aren't planting drugs on yuppies and tech workers, nor do you live in one of the many terribad parts of that city.
- paul7986 9y agoHuh I was just saying Baltimore is not a bad city especially if these negative stories paint a different picture and in ones mind not a positive one. Thus, I was pointing out positive aspects of this city that are available to everyone! As for being privileged I am not rich nor have parents that are wealthy rather about middle class. My startups I started and made no money off we’re all paid for by myself from savings or grants I received from incubators. Thus anyone who wants to can work hard .. save money .. do a startup to either hit the jackpot or use the experience to learn an on demand skill. I am no way making 120 to 250k in Govt IT but know friends who are after ten or more years. Maybe I will one day and if so that would be great .. though it would come after years of hard work.
- twothamendment 9y agoI'd rather deal with a decent cop in a tank than one on a bike who plants evidence. Hopefully the evidence farmer doesn't get promoted to tank commander.
- mirimir 9y agoAs horrible as these crimes were, they're negligible in the context of widespread civil asset forfeiture abuse.
- Dowwie 9y agoPolice follow a code that is not unlike that followed by groups that they have legal authority over. When one officer refuses to be an accomplice to a crime committed by another officer, the officer is culturally pressured not to act in a way that would attack the offending officer. One reason for this is you ought not throw stones when you live in a glass house. Officers commit crimes for all sorts of reasons: mistakes, shortcuts, aggression, revenge. Further, if officers blew the whistle on each other for every matter, the culture would turn to disrespect and distrust among those whose lives depend on each other. So, Baltimore ends up with much greater problems as smaller ones snow ball. Body cameras are helping to distance officers from hurting their team but they're not being managed in a way that will ensure integrity. The fox can't guard the hen house. Police control when the cameras are on, they control the recordings, and they control who reviews the recordings. I might as well add that Trump is in the process of creating this culture among the branches of government. Smaller problems won't be reported. Much greater problems will eventually emerge. Everyone will ask how this could ever happen. A political savior will swoop in and reform.
- solarengineer 9y agoThe Baltimore Police's official position on Transparency. https://www.baltimorepolice.org/transparency/overview https://www.baltimorepolice.org/transparency/overview How does the audit culture work in the US? Are government agencies required to establish compliance with their stated positions (e.g. their position on Transparency) ?