12 ms·
High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness
- Retric 9y agoNote this is only "young, overweight/obese, vitamin-deficient, but otherwise still healthy African-Americans"
- oneplane 9y agoThe 'otherwise still healthy' part almost hides the fact that this is about sick/ill people. Not sure what the African-Americans specificity has to do with it.
- phyller 9y ago"Overweight/obese blacks are at increased risk for vitamin D deficiency because darker skin absorbs less sunlight -- the skin makes vitamin D in response to sun exposure -- and fat tends to sequester vitamin D for no apparent purpose, says Dong, the study's corresponding author."
- oneplane 9y agoAh, that makes sense indeed.
- smitherfield 9y agoThanks for pointing that out, there have been major issues with drawing overly-broad conclusions based on studies pertaining to a specific demographic, before studying the general population. For example, omega-3 fish oil became one of the most popular supplements since a 1970's Danish study showing it helped prevent heart attacks ... among the Inuit, whom it turns out are the only group that produce the enzymes needed to metabolize fish oil.[1] That said this is far from the first or only study showing health benefits to vitamin D supplementation. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/22/science/inuit-study-adds-twist-to-omega-3-fatty-acids-health-story.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/22/science/inuit-study-adds-...
- rrauenza 9y agoThanks! Maybe this explains why it gives me a 24 hour stomach ache! (although not all brands?!)
- mindcrime 9y agoThere's more research on fish-oil / omega-3's than just that one study though. See: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19609891 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19609891 for example.
- walshemj 9y agoTrue but Black and Asian populations living in northern colder climates with less sunlight are well known to have vitamin D deficiency. I remember a news article on the BBC over 30 years ago saying doctors where seeing rickets in the UK's Asian population - a disease that had been wiped out in the white population a generation or so before.
- exhilaration 9y agoThere was a long discussion about Vitamin D in general last month: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15867918 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15867918
- phyller 9y agoHere is a link to the actual paper: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0188424 http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.... They recommend 4,000 IUs of vitamin D as the maximum safe dose, not because higher doses were found to be less helpful but because 4,000 was the most helpful and also the highest amount they actually tested. It is possible (but untested) that 6,000 and 8,000 IUs could have been even better. However, it does appear that at 16 weeks both the groups getting 2,000 and 4,000 IUs of vitamin D leveled out at the same blood serum level of vitamin D.
- bsder 9y agoDidn't we have a paper recently that vitamin D dosages are currently too low as measured by blood serum? https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/05/10/vitamin-d-recommended-dietary-allowance.aspx https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/05/... https://www.vitamindcouncil.org/new-vitamin-d-recommendations-set-by-panel-of-experts-in-central-europe/ https://www.vitamindcouncil.org/new-vitamin-d-recommendation... Note that an obese adult can need up to 4000 IU's to maintain blood serum ...
- ghaff 9y ago4,000 IUs isn't really an especially high dose. Standard Vitamin D supplements that many doctors commonly recommend (especially in places where people don't get a lot of sun for much of the year) are 2,000.
- buttcoinslol 9y agoI take 4000 IUs a day on the 45th parallel from late September to April, 2000 IUs during the summer. More than one doctor has OKed this dose. I was at 8-10 ng/ml a few years ago and now I take Vitamin D very seriously.
- megaman22 9y agoI started taking pretty high dosages of Vitamin D about a month ago, after seeing this item (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15867918 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15867918). It's really incredible how much better I've felt over that time. The impact on my mood has been really remarkable - I was pissy and irritable, short-fused and pessimistic. Nothing much else in my life has changed, but I'm feeling much more even-keeled and relaxed since starting the Vitamin D supplements.
- Cenk 9y agoHow high are the doses you’re taking?
- megaman22 9y ago10k or 12k IUs. That might be more than I ought to long term, but I figured I was pretty deep in the hole to start with, and I'm a pretty big boy besides. I also started taking three calcium, magnesium and zinc tabs along with the D, not sure exactly what those dosages are off the top of my head, but three of them adds up to the 100% recommended amount. That might have some additional impact.
- joncrane 9y agoOK so it's not just me! I mainly noticed an increase in sleep quality, which I believe is why I feel more even-keeled.
- m_fayer 9y agoSame here. Increases my mood, positivity, and sleep quality, very noticeably.
- mitchell_h 9y agoI take 5000IU a day. When I miss a day or two I know it. For the price of some D3 it's cheap insurance.
- 9y ago
- mozumder 9y agoIs "arterial stiffness" the same as atherosclerosis?
- agumonkey 9y agomaybe a preceeding stage before full on atherosclerosis, there are multiple layers in arteries and a whole gradual process from lower elasticity, stiffness, clogged ..
- tw1010 9y agoEasy solutions and shortcuts seems to be the norm when it comes to advice. But as usual with these things, the grown-up advice aught to be kept in mind; remember to try all the low-hanging, boring, solutions first, like diet and exersize, before you go on experimenting with stuff like high doses of this or that substance. If willpower is the problem, tackle that instead. (There are plenty of books on the subject.)
- krrrh 9y agoQuite often people suffering from a specific nutritional deficiency or cognitive imbalance can go for years beating themselves up over their inability to get an exercise/salad/meditation habit on track, until they get on a substance that ups their baseline condition enough that they can establish these habits. I've seen this happen for people taking one of vitamin D, methylfolate, magnesium, Adderall, or anti-depressants. Your advice is correct for most people, but anyone who has made honest efforts for years to pick these low-hanging fruits and failed consistently with a shelf full of books on discipline to show for it, should also do their research and try to find a doctor that leans towards an integrative approach or is young and still curious, who will also explore your genetics, experiment with medications, and order a wide-range of blood tests to see if anything is out of range. It's important to monitor improvements and side effects, and it's better to not do this yourself.
- MilnerRoute 9y agoI just want to share an observation about articles like this. It's that I never hear the same thing later from my doctor. Either doctors stick with their old methods -- what they were taught in medical school -- or the online information is a little premature. (One study finds one possible connection, but further studies don't turn it into an actionable prescription regiment.)
- kingkawn 9y agoThere’s too much new research most of which is too inconclusive to bother updating general practices for doctors. You’re right, for the most part people continue to put their faith in the concensus they absorbed in medical school
- BugsJustFindMe 9y agoInteresting. At least with respect to Vitamin D, my doctors have been recommending supplementation for years.
- Ensorceled 9y agoVitamin D has also been recommended by both my GP and my significant other’s. Both also say to stay away from most other supplements and especially multivitamins.
- Someone1234 9y agoMine has been recommending fish oil too. Same as yours in regard to multi-vitamins, she thinks they're a waste of money (we haven't spoken about D specifically).
- rrauenza 9y agoI started a new medication and found my stomach hurt all day. Finally realized it was the fish oil that I started taking regularly again because of the other med. It was also a new brand of fish oil. How do you find fish oil that doesn't kill your stomach? Doesn't seem to matter if it's "burpless."
- owens99 9y agoSimple goal for 2018: take Vitamin D supplement every day
- bdamm 9y agoI've set this goal for myself several times, particularly important because I've been diagnosed with osteopenia at a young age (38). This has not translated into fractures, so I haven't managed to figure out how to turn this into a daily regimen (taking increased vitamin D) which would, one would think, help. Any ideas about how to turn this into a daily habit? Put vitamins by the front door? Set an alarm on the phone? Supplements in the smoothie blend?
- BoiledCabbage 9y agoMake it part of your routine. Put them in bathroom medicine cabinet and take right before brushing your teeth at night. Or if you do regular breakfast, take with breakfast. Tie it to an activity you already do daily.
- Tenhundfeld 9y agoWhile vitamin D can help with sleep overall, I've read that vitamin D can temporarily interfere with melatonin production immediately after ingesting. So you shouldn't take it at night, too close to bedtime. Of course, I've also read many people take it at night with no negative effects – and that, as a hormone, it absorbs more efficiently overnight in a sleeping state. So, this is probably one of things that affects people differently, but it's just something to be cognizant of. If you take it a night and feel restless, try switching to the morning. I also have a close friend who gets severely constipated with most vitamin D. It took her a lot of trial and error to find a brand that did not constipate her, which I cannot remember right now.
- adrianN 9y agoGwern has done some self-experimentation and found Vitamin D to negatively affect sleep https://www.gwern.net/zeo/Vitamin-D https://www.gwern.net/zeo/Vitamin-D
- yborg 9y agoI'm old enough to remember when the fad was taking supplemental Vitamin A and E as 'antioxidants' to reduce cancer risk. Then long term studies in Sweden on Vitamin A showed it actually increased risk, at least for lung cancer. I would be hesitant to go all-in on Vitamin D loading until such studies have been done here. There is a good reason why medicine is conservative - first, do no harm.
- JoshMnem 9y agoRE: Vitamin E, see "Selenium, vitamin E supplements increase prostate cancer risk" https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/selenium-vitamin-e-supplements-increase-decrease-prostate-cancer-risk-201402287059 https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/selenium-vitamin-e-suppl...
- acchow 9y agoSo, basically correlation studies are bullshit.
- derefr 9y agoMind you, what was previously (and mostly still is!) considered “high doses” of vitamim D are actually closer to the RDI than the doses anyone is taking. The RDI for vitamin D was miscalculated as 1/10th its proper value decades ago, and this error was only recently corrected: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/03/150317122458.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/03/150317122458.h... So when a science journalist—or even most scientists still—say “high doses” of vitamin D, they really mean proper doses of vitamin D. Including in this article! They’re quoting the same improper 600IU RDI standard that the article above refutes, and quoting 4000IU as an abnormal amount rather than being perfectly-well-within the correct RDI value.
- gojomo 9y agoIn terms of importance in interpreting this result, this comment should be the top-voted, top-level comment.
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- _RPM 9y agoMy Dr. told me take Vitamin D because of the winter.
- DenisM 9y agoBright light too? I can recommend a good lamp.
- chimeracoder 9y ago> Bright light too? I can recommend a good lamp. It's no longer recommended to use UV-B light as a source for Vitamin D, because it increases your risk of skin cancer. Instead, Vitamin D can be obtained from certain foods, though the number of foods that contain Vitamin D naturally is quite small[0]. Hence why supplements are often needed. [0] Vitamin D is added to milk, though it doesn't occur in milk naturally. And the quantities included in milk may not be sufficient for a lot of people.
- richardknop 9y agoI was recommended fish oil as child to help with vitamin D so my parents fed me ton of canned tuna and sardines. Not sure if milk is better source of vitamin D than fish oil.
- comicjk 9y agoLight therapy is not about producing Vitamin D, it's about modifying circadian rhythms using bright light, which people often don't get enough during the winter. Generally, light therapy does not use UV. https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/light-therapy/about/pac-20384604 https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/light-therapy/ab...
- Brakenshire 9y agoYou do need exposure to bright light, even outside of vitamin D, for sleep patterns, and probably eye health.
- SubiculumCode 9y ago
- mrfusion 9y agoIf this was true wouldn’t we see people in sunnier climates have less heart disease?
- ovao 9y agoThis study's abstract seems to suggest that there may be a a geographic correlation in addition to a general correlation to sun exposure and heart disease: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8935479 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8935479
- fpoling 9y agoI wonder why there was no control who where exposed to sun or solarium long enough to get the same dose of D.
- mtgx 9y agoProper supplementation (read: not what is currently recommended) of Vitamin D was found to reduce all-mortality causes (including cancer, diabetes, heart attacks, etc) by as much as 50%-70%. To get to that level of 40-50 ng/ml 25(OH)D, you need around 8,000-12,000 IU per day (depending on body mass). It was also found to reduce flu occurences by as much as 70%. This is starting to look like a super important vitamin, even for "healthy individuals that work outside" - let alone everyone else that stays all-day indoors. It also seems to have a huge effect on sleeping well, as it's apparently what the body needs to repair itself properly at night. I highly recommend these videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3pK0dccQ38 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3pK0dccQ38 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74F22bjBmqE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74F22bjBmqE Also, you should combine it with Vitamin K2, another hugely important vitamin most of us are likely lacking, that works in conjunction with D: https://www.reddit.com/r/Supplements/comments/5lrqki/the_most_comprehensive_vitamin_d_guide_youll_ever/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Supplements/comments/5lrqki/the_mos... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28768407 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28768407 https://examine.com/supplements/vitamin-d/ https://examine.com/supplements/vitamin-d/
- delhanty 9y ago>Dong, an expert in vitamin D and a professor in the MCG Department of Population Health Sciences, says about 15 minutes daily in the "young" sun -- between 10 a.m. and 2 p.m. -- but before your skin starts to get pink, is the best source of vitamin D. That's what works best for me! Mood and mobility improve!
- eyeball 9y agoI just shine one of those UVB reptile light bulbs on myself for a few minutes a day.
- sliverstorm 9y agoThe canonical advice with vitamins is always that it's best to get them in food, as part of a healthy diet. The interesting thing here perhaps is that if you live above 37 degrees latitude, there are very few ways to get vitamin D, mainly fish and fortified foods. Fortified foods are arguably not that different from supplements, and fish is pricey, unpopular, and somewhat of a specialty food. So, perhaps there really is an argument for vitamin D supplementation. Although, at least for its cofactors, I'll be trying to get them from food.
- lerie82 9y agoHow come it's never tests with regular people and regular doses?
- ilaksh 9y agoBecause of the Vitamin D deficiency issue, if I am ever able to do the real estate development I dream of, I am planning to include solar collectors with fiber optics to distribute natural light indoors. I know the trend is just lots of large windows which might be an option, but I believe that the fiber optic distribution could be more effective and allow for a more energy efficient home.
- todd8 9y agoThat probably won’t work. Vitamine D production is stimulated by UVB wavelengths (270nm to 300nm). These wavelengths of light are very heavily attenuated by fiber optics (because of scattering in the fibers). Sorry.
- bproven 9y agoProbably the best approach is this: - Go get a blood test and find out what your current levels are. if you are too busy to hit up your physician, blood tests can be be purchased online without a doctor visit - After purchase, you just show up at Labcorp/Quest location and get your blood drawn. Vit D tests are pretty cheap at around $50 - If deficient, supplement with Vitamin D; 4000-5000 IU a day seems to be a good start. - Get a follow-up blood test a few months later to confirm that the current dosage is adequate. If it is great. If not, rinse and repeat as necessary... Everyone is unique so I think this i sthe best approach. Also, IMO being (too) afraid of the sun is one of the reasons this is such a problem in modern life.