13 ms·

How ISIS Produced Its Cruel Arsenal at Scale

94 points by Eduardo3rd 9y ago

djsumdog 9y ago
They left out the part where the CIA gave them all their weapons.
- craftyguy 9y ago
  Source?
  - josefresco 9y ago
    He/she is probably referring to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone Which is and isn't relevant.
    - knowThySelfx 9y ago
      Or maybe something like this: https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/831858/Iraq-ISIS-US-Mosul-Nouri-al-Makiki-United-States https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/831858/Iraq-ISIS-US-Mos...
      - josefresco 9y ago
        All sorts of wrong in the linked article - the source is dubious at best. "“The same way, ISIS was created to counter the Iraqi stance, which did not agree to blockade Syria, was against no-fly zones in Syria and against American military bases. "The Iraqi society is against foreign military bases on the country's territory coming back to Iraq and setting up bases here." The Iraqi official also claimed that it was the country’s military that were mainly responsible for driving ISIS out of Mosul."
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
chrisseaton 9y ago
Some of this is pretty patronising. Amongst the advanced techniques they are surprised Islamic State are able to apply they include 'even affixing written instructions [to weapons]'. It shows you how much people have underestimated them when they are writing articles about how they can write notes and stick them on things.
- azernik 9y ago
  Doing so consistently for standard weapons indicates a certain level of bureaucratic organization.
  - chrisseaton 9y ago
    Well that's what I mean. People seem absolutely dumfounded that these people are able to form basic bureaucratic organisational structures. They aren't simple people. Many of them have higher education from western countries. They're running their military using the same techniques we do, all the way from similar formal tactics on the ground up to social media PR operations. Them being able to write notes on weapons is the least of our worries.
    - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
      > People seem absolutely dumfounded that these people are able to form basic bureaucratic organisational structures Lots of people have big ideas. Few can competently execute on them. This is true of commercial entrepreneurship and international terrorism alike. From what I can tell, ISIS is (or was) unusually well run [1]. [1] http://m.spiegel.de/international/world/islamic-state-files-show-structure-of-islamist-terror-group-a-1029274.html http://m.spiegel.de/international/world/islamic-state-files-...
      - brazzy 9y ago
        Which is likely the reason why they were unusually successful. There are probably dozens of terrorist organizations run by would-be conquerors which never get very far because their leaders are not competent.
zabana 9y ago
Western Governments: These terrorists are coming to get you ! General Population: But, but why ? Western Governements: Because they want to take away your rights and freedoms, of course ! [Proceed to do exactly that ...]
- michaelmcmillan 9y ago
  Please watch this. https://youtu.be/rY5Ste5xRAA?t=2543 https://youtu.be/rY5Ste5xRAA?t=2543
- musage 9y ago
  That's still way too tame. > "War is essentially an evil thing. Its consequences are not confined to the belligerent states alone, but affect the whole world. To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole." http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/judnazi.asp#common http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/judnazi.asp#common Remember embedded journalists? Remember "Mission Accomplished"? Remember people being accused of "supporting Saddam"? I'm not excusing ISIS, they are responsible for what they do. It's "just" that plenty others, still welcome in polite company, are responsible, too. Without that war of aggression built on lies, there would be no ISIS, not at this scale. That is how ISIS came to produce a "cruel arsenal", as opposed to, say, a generous arsenal of peace and nation-building, like drones with which to kill "fun-sized terrorists" ( https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/18/life-as-a-drone-pilot-creech-air-force-base-nevada https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/18/life-as-a-dron... )
  - wallace_f 9y ago
    It is dark to wonder how many of these failures that perpetuate evil in the world may have been intended? When Eisenhower warned of the creeping power of the military and its network, was that what led to these circumstances today? Like the War on Poverty has shown, bureaucratic inertia is a more powerful force than the good nature of people. Crazy world. We've inherited technology capable of solving the scarcity problem of food, housing and basic needs but still find a way to create more BS and misery in the world. I hate the modern idea that "doing that which is in your best interest is acceptable. That was very true of the average war-age male during Nazi Germany. The radical ideology, as was mentioned above of ISIS's origins, likewise probably played a secondary supporting role to the economics. Killing people for profit is not OK: https://theintercept.com/2016/09/09/wolf-blitzer-is-worried-defense-contractors-will-lose-jobs-if-u-s-stops-arming-saudi-arabia/ https://theintercept.com/2016/09/09/wolf-blitzer-is-worried-...
jacobr 9y ago
For a more detailed story on how they ran their manufacturing, regarding armored vehicles in particular, there is a fascinating story about The Workshop > The facility would perform a wide variety of overhauls and upgrades on nearly all types of armoured fighting vehicles in use with the Islamic State, ranging everything from installing multi-spectral camouflage on tanks to the up-armouring of AFVs and even constructing modular turrets for installation on four-wheel drive vehicles such as the Toyota Land Cruiser. http://spioenkop.blogspot.se/2017/08/armour-in-islamic-state-story-of.html http://spioenkop.blogspot.se/2017/08/armour-in-islamic-state... That blog has several really interesting articles about DIY armour and fighting vehicles.
- mr_spothawk 9y ago
  Excellent source. I'm impressed by the variety of tank modifications!
  - plussed_reader 9y ago
    Yeah, I don't see why we need a defense industry. Obviously the boutique market is handling demand just fine.
knowThySelfx 9y ago
Suddenly one day how did this "ISIS" spring up so well organized with great "PR" work. While they were plying their trade in Syria, they didn't seem to know that their sworn enemies lived just across the border. Wonder why they never really attacked that country.
- dfsegoat 9y ago
  Because the IDF would have annihilated them. It's far easier to pick on haphazard regimes, who are generally incapable of organizing strategic defensive efforts. Beyond that, ISIS was more about power and wealth than it was about ideology. The ideology was just a vehicle.
  - knowThySelfx 9y ago
    In that case they ISIS are pussies (but are they?). Can't even compare to Palestinian boys throwing rocks. It seems like the organization could attract Psychopaths from around the world. And they were provided with excellent training and other comforts. Amazing, to say the least. The IDF could've lent a little help too (if they could annihilate them, like you said, which I am sure they can easily do), since ISIS are a threat to the entire world.
    - craftyguy 9y ago
      By your account (them not fighting the IDF), they are pussies in the same way that you are for choosing not to fist fight an oncoming semi truck. It would have been suicide and humans, for the most part, are looking out for their own skin.
      - knowThySelfx 9y ago
        Rhetoric aside: https://www.timesofisrael.com/ex-defense-minister-says-is-apologized-to-israel-for-november-clash/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/ex-defense-minister-says-is-ap... Don't need too much perception there to understand whats happening.
  - 9y ago
exodust 9y ago
Now called WasWas. According to the prime minister of Iraq's announcement on Twitter a few days ago, "Iraq's armed forces have secured the western desert & the entire Iraq Syria border...this marks the end of the war against Daesh terrorists who have been completely defeated and evicted from Iraq". Can we have the name Isis back now? Or at least call them Daesh, they hate that name.

94 points by Eduardo3rd 9y ago

djsumdog 9y ago

They left out the part where the CIA gave them all their weapons.

craftyguy 9y ago
Source?
- josefresco 9y ago
  He/she is probably referring to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone Which is and isn't relevant.
  - knowThySelfx 9y ago
    Or maybe something like this: https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/831858/Iraq-ISIS-US-Mosul-Nouri-al-Makiki-United-States https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/831858/Iraq-ISIS-US-Mos...
    - josefresco 9y ago
      All sorts of wrong in the linked article - the source is dubious at best. "“The same way, ISIS was created to counter the Iraqi stance, which did not agree to blockade Syria, was against no-fly zones in Syria and against American military bases. "The Iraqi society is against foreign military bases on the country's territory coming back to Iraq and setting up bases here." The Iraqi official also claimed that it was the country’s military that were mainly responsible for driving ISIS out of Mosul."

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

chrisseaton 9y ago

Some of this is pretty patronising. Amongst the advanced techniques they are surprised Islamic State are able to apply they include 'even affixing written instructions [to weapons]'. It shows you how much people have underestimated them when they are writing articles about how they can write notes and stick them on things.

azernik 9y ago
Doing so consistently for standard weapons indicates a certain level of bureaucratic organization.
- chrisseaton 9y ago
  Well that's what I mean. People seem absolutely dumfounded that these people are able to form basic bureaucratic organisational structures. They aren't simple people. Many of them have higher education from western countries. They're running their military using the same techniques we do, all the way from similar formal tactics on the ground up to social media PR operations. Them being able to write notes on weapons is the least of our worries.
  - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
    > People seem absolutely dumfounded that these people are able to form basic bureaucratic organisational structures Lots of people have big ideas. Few can competently execute on them. This is true of commercial entrepreneurship and international terrorism alike. From what I can tell, ISIS is (or was) unusually well run [1]. [1] http://m.spiegel.de/international/world/islamic-state-files-show-structure-of-islamist-terror-group-a-1029274.html http://m.spiegel.de/international/world/islamic-state-files-...
    - brazzy 9y ago
      Which is likely the reason why they were unusually successful. There are probably dozens of terrorist organizations run by would-be conquerors which never get very far because their leaders are not competent.

zabana 9y ago

Western Governments: These terrorists are coming to get you ! General Population: But, but why ? Western Governements: Because they want to take away your rights and freedoms, of course ! [Proceed to do exactly that ...]

michaelmcmillan 9y ago
Please watch this. https://youtu.be/rY5Ste5xRAA?t=2543 https://youtu.be/rY5Ste5xRAA?t=2543
musage 9y ago
That's still way too tame. > "War is essentially an evil thing. Its consequences are not confined to the belligerent states alone, but affect the whole world. To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole." http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/judnazi.asp#common http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/judnazi.asp#common Remember embedded journalists? Remember "Mission Accomplished"? Remember people being accused of "supporting Saddam"? I'm not excusing ISIS, they are responsible for what they do. It's "just" that plenty others, still welcome in polite company, are responsible, too. Without that war of aggression built on lies, there would be no ISIS, not at this scale. That is how ISIS came to produce a "cruel arsenal", as opposed to, say, a generous arsenal of peace and nation-building, like drones with which to kill "fun-sized terrorists" ( https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/18/life-as-a-drone-pilot-creech-air-force-base-nevada https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/18/life-as-a-dron... )
- wallace_f 9y ago
  It is dark to wonder how many of these failures that perpetuate evil in the world may have been intended? When Eisenhower warned of the creeping power of the military and its network, was that what led to these circumstances today? Like the War on Poverty has shown, bureaucratic inertia is a more powerful force than the good nature of people. Crazy world. We've inherited technology capable of solving the scarcity problem of food, housing and basic needs but still find a way to create more BS and misery in the world. I hate the modern idea that "doing that which is in your best interest is acceptable. That was very true of the average war-age male during Nazi Germany. The radical ideology, as was mentioned above of ISIS's origins, likewise probably played a secondary supporting role to the economics. Killing people for profit is not OK: https://theintercept.com/2016/09/09/wolf-blitzer-is-worried-defense-contractors-will-lose-jobs-if-u-s-stops-arming-saudi-arabia/ https://theintercept.com/2016/09/09/wolf-blitzer-is-worried-...

jacobr 9y ago

For a more detailed story on how they ran their manufacturing, regarding armored vehicles in particular, there is a fascinating story about The Workshop > The facility would perform a wide variety of overhauls and upgrades on nearly all types of armoured fighting vehicles in use with the Islamic State, ranging everything from installing multi-spectral camouflage on tanks to the up-armouring of AFVs and even constructing modular turrets for installation on four-wheel drive vehicles such as the Toyota Land Cruiser. http://spioenkop.blogspot.se/2017/08/armour-in-islamic-state-story-of.html http://spioenkop.blogspot.se/2017/08/armour-in-islamic-state... That blog has several really interesting articles about DIY armour and fighting vehicles.

mr_spothawk 9y ago
Excellent source. I'm impressed by the variety of tank modifications!
- plussed_reader 9y ago
  Yeah, I don't see why we need a defense industry. Obviously the boutique market is handling demand just fine.

knowThySelfx 9y ago

Suddenly one day how did this "ISIS" spring up so well organized with great "PR" work. While they were plying their trade in Syria, they didn't seem to know that their sworn enemies lived just across the border. Wonder why they never really attacked that country.

dfsegoat 9y ago
Because the IDF would have annihilated them. It's far easier to pick on haphazard regimes, who are generally incapable of organizing strategic defensive efforts. Beyond that, ISIS was more about power and wealth than it was about ideology. The ideology was just a vehicle.
- knowThySelfx 9y ago
  In that case they ISIS are pussies (but are they?). Can't even compare to Palestinian boys throwing rocks. It seems like the organization could attract Psychopaths from around the world. And they were provided with excellent training and other comforts. Amazing, to say the least. The IDF could've lent a little help too (if they could annihilate them, like you said, which I am sure they can easily do), since ISIS are a threat to the entire world.
  - craftyguy 9y ago
    By your account (them not fighting the IDF), they are pussies in the same way that you are for choosing not to fist fight an oncoming semi truck. It would have been suicide and humans, for the most part, are looking out for their own skin.
    - knowThySelfx 9y ago
      Rhetoric aside: https://www.timesofisrael.com/ex-defense-minister-says-is-apologized-to-israel-for-november-clash/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/ex-defense-minister-says-is-ap... Don't need too much perception there to understand whats happening.
- 9y ago

exodust 9y ago

Now called WasWas. According to the prime minister of Iraq's announcement on Twitter a few days ago, "Iraq's armed forces have secured the western desert & the entire Iraq Syria border...this marks the end of the war against Daesh terrorists who have been completely defeated and evicted from Iraq". Can we have the name Isis back now? Or at least call them Daesh, they hate that name.