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AWS Fargate – Run Containers Without Managing Infrastructure

• beck5 9y ago
  I am getting lost with all the ways to run containers on AWS. Is this the equivalent of google compute engines beta option to boot from a docker container?
  • NathanKP 9y ago
    AWS employee here on the ECS team. ECS on Fargate would be the closest thing to what you are asking for. Upload a container image, create a Fargate cluster, and launch a service on that cluster that runs your container.
    • soccerdave 9y ago
      Is this available today? I thought that's what I heard, but I'm not seeing anything in the AWS console.
      • NathanKP 9y ago
        It's currently available in the us-east-1 region, under the ECS service in the console. Create a new cluster and Fargate will be an option for launching and operating the cluster.
        • soccerdave 9y ago
          Thanks! I must have missed that bit about us-east-1 only
          • brazzledazzle 9y ago
            It's frustrating how hit or miss their service availability is in each region. I can understand other countries with different laws and regulations but they can't even get some services multi-region in the US.
  • stuaxo 9y ago
    As a contractor, I come into places and use stuff for about 6 months then move onto the next place with a different setup. The Amazon stuff is especially confusing, it seems they have reinvented just about everything with their own jargon, it really doesn't help.
  • TheIronYuppie 9y ago
    Google Employee here It's closest analog is Azure Container Instances or Google App Engine Flex.
• bryanh 9y ago
  Everyone at Zapier was hoping for AWS managed Kubernetes. Edit: Maybe we'll get it! https://twitter.com/AWSreInvent/status/935909627224506368 https://twitter.com/AWSreInvent/status/935909627224506368
  • nathankunicki 9y ago
    They announced that too, "AWS Elastic Container Service for Kubernetes", or EKS as they call it. This is different, this is where your containers run, not for managing the containers. You can use either ECS or EKS for scheduling containers on Fargate, the same as scheduling them on EC2 hardware.
  • 100pctremote 9y ago
    Fargate is complementary to the just-announced Elastic Container Service for Kubernetes (EKS)
  • kasperni 9y ago
    It is there as well https://aws.amazon.com/eks/ https://aws.amazon.com/eks/
    • tootie 9y ago
      Guess I should learn about Kubernetes now.
      • lindydonna 9y ago
        I found the talks by Brendan Burns to be very good for a high-level overview.
• nhumrich 9y ago
  This is a really cool midway point between lambda and ec2. You can have a large codebase, run continously, but on "serverless"
• boyd 9y ago
  Notably, this appears to confirm a Kubernetes offering (EKS)! I will tell you that we plan to support launching containers on Fargate using Amazon EKS in 2018 [Edit] Looks like that just got announced too: https://aws.amazon.com/eks/ https://aws.amazon.com/eks/.
  • NathanKP 9y ago
    AWS employee here. You are correct. Fargate is an underlying technology for running containers without needing to manage instances, and it will integrate with both the ECS and EKS container orchestration and scheduling offerings.
    • deleted 9y ago
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    • azinman2 9y ago
      Do all the containers I launch run in an EC2 VM that’s isolated for my account? Or does Fargate somehow provide the security isolation without being a VM?
      • NathanKP 9y ago
        Fargate isolation is at the cluster level. Apps running in the same cluster may share the underlying infrastructure, apps running in different clusters won't.
        • crb 9y ago
          Is that infrastructure, EC2 instances?
        • rahulkrishnanra 9y ago
          Are they creating separate cluster for each aws account, how the isolation is happening
          • 9y ago
• lotyrin 9y ago
  Is there any plan for Fargate + EKS to be able to support attached EBS volumes? Please say yes.
  • bbgm 9y ago
    We are super interested in enabling EBS support for Fargate. We do not have any timelines, but would love to know what your expectations are and what you would use EBS for. (I run the containers org at AWS)
    • lotyrin 9y ago
      Goal is to have a developer write up a service definition with e.g. a web tier, service tier and database tier, wherein some of those pods might need to have persistent data volumes and expect EKS be able to run that application for them without my intervention, even if I were to have something shooting the underlying compute nodes in the head (but ideally, I won't even sweat those nodes' existence thanks to Fargate). We'd be using services like RDS for everything we could, of course, but sometimes someone insists on persisting something to disk, and sometimes that strategy makes sense.
    • elcritch 9y ago
      One good example use case would be running distributed NoSQL / KV stores. Running say a Riak KV cluster or an image caching and processing service. Both of these would probably be best using SSD EBS's to be able to bring the data storage and computing closer together rather than using RDS or similar, which in certain use cases it can be significantly faster due to less network calls and latency. As an example setup, Rancher has a plugin to allow using docker data volumes from EBS volumes. It handles the naming, attaching the drives to the EC2 instance, etc.
    • nathankunicki 9y ago
      I currently run Cassandra inside a container. The data is on an EBS volume, attached to the instance through CloudFormation at stack creation time, and mounted through a systemd unit defined in UserData (Also through CloudFormation). It is then exposed to the container via a Docker volume mapping specified in the task definition (Also through CloudFormation!). Would love to have an extension of the run-task command that specifies an EBS volume to attach and where to mount it when using Fargate.
• allengeorge 9y ago
  I'm not 100% sure about the relationship between EKS, ECS and Fargate. Why would I deploy to Fargate over EKS? I assume it's because with Fargate I don't have to write a k8s deployment spec? Why would I deploy to Fargate over ECS? Legitimately curious, and looking for clarification/correction.
  • adrianmacneil 9y ago
    With ECS and EKS you get a managed master, then you set up your own autoscaling groups etc to deploy nodes (which you manage) into the cluster. With Fargate, you get access to AWS-managed multi-tenant nodes. So, Fargate connects to either your ECS or EKS cluster and avoids the need for you to worry about managing the nodes as well.
  • NathanKP 9y ago
    AWS employee here. You would deploy to Fargate because you don't want to have to manage the underlying EC2 instances. You can use Fargate with both ECS and EKS (in 2018). ECS and EKS are just two different schedulers for orchestrating the containerized services that you want to run. Fargate is the engine behind them that executes the containers for you without you needing to worry about servers. ECS as a scheduler will always integrate much better with other AWS services. EKS will give you the advantage of being able to run the same scheduler on an on premise or on another cloud.
    • mgalgs 9y ago
      I thought EKS was managed? Do you still have to manage the underlying instances in EKS?
      • kainosnoema 9y ago
        Yes, EKS is just managed K8s, which is the orchestration layer. You still need to have EC2 instances for the EKS tasks to be scheduled on. Unless you run your EKS tasks on Fargate, which is coming in 2018.
• CSDude 9y ago
  Fargate is a very logical step, I agree Kubernetes is really nice but very complex for simplistic setups, looking forward to use it, too bad it's only in N. Virginia
  • NathanKP 9y ago
    We will be steadily rolling Fargate out across other regions starting in 2018.
• eropple 9y ago
  Fargate looks really expensive compared to just running an EC2 instance. A 1 vCPU container with 2GB of RAM will run you $55/month. An m3.medium with 1 vCPU and 3.75GB of RAM is $49. The prices seen to get uncomfortably worse from there, though I haven't priced them out the whole way, but a 4 vCPU container with 8GB of RAM is price-competitive ($222 for the container, $227 monthly for the machine) with a freaking i3.xlarge, with 4 vCPUs and 30.5GB, and the i3.xlarge also has 10Gbit networking. Topping Fargate out at 4 vCPUs and 30GB of RAM puts it right between an r4.2xlarge and an i3.2xlarge, both with 8 vCPUs and 61GB of RAM (the i3 is more expensive because it's also got 1.9TB of local SSD). Enough people are still trying to make fetch happen, where fetch is container orchestration, that I expect that fetch will indeed eventually happen, but this is a large vig for getting around not-a-lot-of-management-work (because the competition isn't Kubernetes, which is the bin packing problem returned to eat your wallet, it's EC2 instances, and there is a little management work but not much and it scales). If you have decided that you want to undertake the bin packing problem, AWS's ECS or the new Elastic Kubernetes Service makes some sense; you're paying EC2 prices, plus a small management fee (I think). I don't understand Fargate at all.
  • srdev 9y ago
    Can you elaborate on what the bin packing problem is?
    • andrewstuart2 9y ago
      It's multi-machine scheduling, basically. Given N resources and M consumers, how can I fit all M consumers most efficiently, while using the minimum N? The bin metaphor is that you imagine one or several bins on the floor, and a bunch of things to place in bins. Binpacking is just playing tetris to make sure all your things are packed into as few bins as possible, because bins cost money. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_packing_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_packing_problem
    • barrkel 9y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_packing_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_packing_problem If you have a bunch of jobs and you need to run them efficiently on a bunch of compute, you need to be careful not to oversubscribe the hardware, especially wrt memory. There's an isomorphism between running differently sized jobs concurrently on a compute resources, and the bin packing problem. It's a scheduling problem.
• lclarkmichalek 9y ago
  Well that's one of the more nonsensical names to come out of AWS recently.
  • parshimers 9y ago
    I'm pretty sure someone at Amazon is an Aqua Teen Hunger Force fan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOd7HQoKxcU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOd7HQoKxcU Oglethorpe: We have successfully traveled eons through both space and time through the Fargate. To get free cable. Emory: I think it's a s-star gate Oglethorpe: Its the Fargate! F, its different from that movie which I have never seen, so how would I copy it?
• dewyatt 9y ago
  I think I have AWS fatigue. I have a few certifications and a few years of experience working with AWS, but it's getting difficult to even keep track of all the services.
  • deleted 9y ago
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  • remus 9y ago
    Maybe it's just been the last few days, but it feels like every time I look at hn there's 2 new posts announcing new Aws services!
    • romanhn 9y ago
      It's just the last few days. The big AWS re:Invent conference is happening this week, with all of the new service announcements.
    • lostcolony 9y ago
      Re:invent is going on. That's why. They hold big announcements (like new services) until this week each year.
  • notyourday 9y ago
    It is really AWS Extract Money From Customer's CFOs service
    • fenwick67 9y ago
      You forgot "Elastic".
      • notyourday 9y ago
        of course. the more money CFO has the more is extracted! Pure genius! AWS is a drug dealer.
  • Florin_Andrei 9y ago
• dpweb 9y ago
  Ive been using hyper.sh i really like it. Especially i dont want a web interface i can pull a container and start up a container from my command line in 3 seconds. I can pull from docker repo attach ips and storage all in terminal. How does this compare i want to stay out of a web mgmt interface.
  • NathanKP 9y ago
    AWS has an API, and a command line application for integrating with the API. You can (and probably should) use AWS without ever touching the web management interface. For an easy getting starting command line experience for ECS I highly recommend this tool: https://github.com/coldbrewcloud/coldbrew-cli https://github.com/coldbrewcloud/coldbrew-cli
• ju-st 9y ago
  michaelbuckbee, please update https://www.expeditedssl.com/aws-in-plain-english https://www.expeditedssl.com/aws-in-plain-english
• bdburns 9y ago
  (Azure Container Instance engineer here) This looks very similar to what we launched with Azure Container Instances last summer. The Azure Container Instances kubernetes connector is open source and available here: https://github.com/Azure/aci-connector-k8s https://github.com/Azure/aci-connector-k8s
  • curiousDog 9y ago
    Wow this looks like an exact copy of Azure Container Instances.
    • pbecotte 9y ago
      Which is an exact copy of the Joyent service from the year before :)
      • zenlikethat 9y ago
        You mean Triton? I wouldn’t really call it an exact copy if so. There was a whole Linux syscall translation layer in there...
        • elcritch 9y ago
          Copy in the sense of the product features, not the product implementation. Joyent has long provided a "run your container as a service" which IMHO is the best way for a small/medium to run container services. The whole create VM's to run containers creates a lot of extra work. Plus this could be great for teams doing data analysis, just spin up 100 containers for 30 seconds type of workloads. The OP is short on details anyways, does Fargate run on a tuned xen vm's or do they have linux servers under there (or maybe they're SmartOS ;) ).
    • azinman2 9y ago
      Or just the general idea of a cloud provider making it easy to run containers. That’s not exactly a left-field idea.
• gldalmaso 9y ago
  I love AWS and their pace of innovation, but some areas are really lagging behind. Two new container services announced but São Paulo still doesn't even have ECS which was announced in 2014.
  • gtaylor 9y ago
    This is one of a few signals that may suggest ECS may not figure prominently in AWS future strategy.
    • politician 9y ago
      That's an understatement! We've been watching ecs-agent development stagnate for the past 6 months until just a couple of weeks ago. ECS has been on death's doorstep while AWS has been pushing the Lambda strategy. My guess is that their numbers show a slowdown in Lambda uptake due to the problems with Lambda, so they're now moving over to this Fargate platform and ECS is getting a few dribbles of dev time as a consequence. I think they need to get over this NIH/Rebrand&Relabel syndrome and implement Istio (https://istio.io/ https://istio.io/).
      • NathanKP 9y ago
        AWS employee on the ECS team here. First of all you are using the wrong measurement of growth vs stagnation. We've continually been releasing features (not all of which are part of ecs-agent), while also working on many interesting backend projects such as Fargate. Much of what we develop is closed source or open sourced later, so the ecs-agent repo is not a good measurement of progress or attention. Second the idea that ECS is on death's doorstep is just false. In the container state of the union at re:Invent Anthony Suarez, head of engineering on ECS, shared that ECS has experienced 450% growth, with millions of container instances under management, and hundreds of millions launched per week: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DP1sWVZUMAAflSW.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DP1sWVZUMAAflSW.jpg This matches up with my personal experience as a developer advocate for ECS talking to customers pretty much every day who are considering ECS or moving to ECS because it makes it easier to connect your containers to other AWS services.
• minhajuddin 9y ago
  This is going to be really great for batch jobs which need isolated environments. I have been waiting for something like this for a long time. Amazon is really doing work. I'll be definitely be using this.
  • rm999 9y ago
    Have you tried AWS Batch? My team moved a couple of our batch machine learning modeling jobs to it earlier this year and it's worked out great. https://aws.amazon.com/batch/ https://aws.amazon.com/batch/
    • bbgm 9y ago
      How would you use Batch + Fargate? Let’s assume Fargate is a supported compute environment in Batch. (I run the containers org at AWS. I happen to run Batch as well)
      • kirillseva 9y ago
        My org is looking to move machine learning to batch as the underlying infra. All I want is to be able to do this: 1) specify a DAG of tasks. Each task is a docker image, CMD string, CPU and memory limits 2) hit an API to run it for me. Each task runs on a new spot instance 3) be able to query this service about the state of the DAG and of each individual node Sounds like if AWS provides an API to create a batch cluster (or whatever you call it) and lets the tasks be defined in terms of what docker image to run with what command you'll satisfy this desire
        • bbgm 9y ago
          That is in line with our vision for Batch; to be the engine for systems where you essentially describe a DAG and we run and hyperoptimize the execution for you. We do some of what you’re asking for but that’s great feedback around what you’d like to do.
      • rm999 9y ago
        Thanks for the response! I'm curious, what would be the interaction between Batch and Fargate? Right now I use Batch to run a container and then exit out with as little thought about the underlying machine as possible. Is Fargate a push further towards serverless? One concern I had with Fargate from the product description is around the configuration options. Our models require more than 100GB to build, but I'm seeing "Max. 30GB".
• kkotak 9y ago
  12 stories on the front page of HN leading to amazon.com and their offerings? Hm....
  • binaryblitz 9y ago
    It's the first day of re:invent and they have a 40%+ market share of IaaS. Not surprising that it's all over HN. Note: I do not work for Amazon. :)
  • euyyn 9y ago
    Announcing everything on the same day pays off :)
• chrismartin 9y ago
  Is "Fargate" an Aqua Teen Hunger Force reference? https://youtu.be/uOd7HQoKxcU?t=38 https://youtu.be/uOd7HQoKxcU?t=38
  • therockspush 9y ago
    Probably. first thing I thought.
  • swivelmaster 9y ago
    Yeah, as soon as I saw "Fargate" I thought, "Is Amazon really naming a product after a silly reference from an episode of ATHF?" I'm not sure if I should be surprised or not.
    • zippergz 9y ago
      I think they ran out of sensible names a long time ago.
• raphaelj 9y ago
  How does this compare to Heroku?
• dumbfounder 9y ago
  Did anyone else notice that 11/15 top stories on HN right now are Amazon announcements? Crazy. Sorry for the offtopicish post...
  • Stefan-H 9y ago
    Reinvent causes this to happen every year. And to be frank, AWS announcements generally have major impact on the internet as a whole, especially on how people do business on it. So, it's deserved, i would say. Full disclosure: former AWS Employee
  • dragonwriter 9y ago
    Its the AWS developers conference right now. You see the same effect for other big tech firms during their respective equivalents.
  • rifung 9y ago
    Isn't that because re:invent is happening now?
  • sigmonsays 9y ago
    They need to chill on posting. They posted 15 posts to the front page and thats 50% of the headlines... all amazon. Hope everyone loves amazon!
  • spydum 9y ago
    how is that different than when apple has it's launch days? the announcements are mostly relevant to the major audiences here, seems reasonable to think they'd get a surge of upvotes
  • manigandham 9y ago
    Yes, their big annual conference: https://reinvent.awsevents.com/ https://reinvent.awsevents.com/
    • dumbfounder 9y ago
      That would explain it!
• deleted 9y ago
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• sigmonsays 9y ago
  sigh, amazon is taking over hacker news. They need to chill on posting. They posted 15 posts to the front page and thats 50% of the headlines... all amazon. Hope everyone loves amazon!
• mck- 9y ago
  A third of the front page of Amazon; what's going on? Did they release a dozen products in one go? Interesting release strategy to bulk everything as opposed to spacing it out..
  • manigandham 9y ago
    Yes, their big annual conference: https://reinvent.awsevents.com/ https://reinvent.awsevents.com/
  • brazzledazzle 9y ago
    re:Invent is happening right now.
• t1o5 9y ago
  Is it the "AWS Day" or something ? I see 5 AWS related news in the top !
  • drdrey 9y ago
    AWS re:Invent is happening in Vegas right now
  • whoisjuan 9y ago
    AWS re:Invent is happening this week. A lot of announcements and product launches.
  • deleted 9y ago
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• deleted 9y ago
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• shroom 9y ago
  Wow ”hundreds of millions of new containers started each week” these are pretty insane numbers. Insane in a very cool and mindnumbing way that is!
• bg0 9y ago
  Was hoping this was close to Google's Appengine. Patiently waiting.
• dzonga 9y ago
  looking at the number of Amazon products on the front-page, it's mind-blowing. Amazon (will) probably have a monopoly on developer mindshare in the future.
  • Voloskaya 9y ago
    It's not like it's a pattern. Today is AWS re:invent. The same is true of Google and MS during their respective annual dev conferences.
• bmurphy1976 9y ago
  I haven't had a chance to dig through the documentation yet. Can we deploy a POD instead of just a container? One of the things we are struggling with is all the side services that have to go with a container deployment (i.e. a secure or oauth proxy).
  • noahm 9y ago
    Fargate uses the same task definition abstraction as Amazon ECS. See http://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonECS/latest/developerguide/launch_types.html http://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonECS/latest/developerguide/l... So yes, you can launch multiple containers in a single logical unit.
    • politician 9y ago
      A word of caution: ECS multi-container tasks do not have the same semantics as Kubernetes pods. In particular, there is no support for bidirectional network discovery.
• samprotas 9y ago
  For low utilization low cost continuous applications (think a web socket listener with not much to do) this lowers the entry level cost below a t2.nano it looks like. That’s a win in my book.
• antoncohen 9y ago
  I wonder how they handle isolation. Linux container technologies don't normally provide sufficient isolation for multi-tenant environments, which is why most of the cloud container orchestrators require you to pre-provision VMs (ECS, GKE). Azure Container Instances uses Windows Hyper-V Isolation that boots a highly optimized VM per container, so containers have VM isolation. Has AWS built a highly optimized VM for running container?
  • NathanKP 9y ago
    AWS employee here. Isolation is handled at the cluster level. Apps that are run in the same cluster may be run on the same underlying infrastructure, but clusters are separated.
• nodesocket 9y ago
  If I understand this correctly, Fargate is similar to Elastic Container Service, without having to worry about EC2's instances? But you also can manage the EC2 instances with Fargate as well? Seems like AWS has lots of products that overlap and it is confusing to end users. I'd say this is exactly why Google Cloud is superior (in my opinion). AWS lacks user experience and KISS philosophy. Just feels like AWS keeps on bolting things on.
  • nathankunicki 9y ago
    No, Fargate is just a container target, like EC2 is. You manage the containers with ECS (Or the newly announced Kubernetes equivalent). They are placed on either EC2 instances or somewhere inside Fargate.
  • kainosnoema 9y ago
    Actually I think their approach is great—it's very modular and there's little overlap between use-cases. An exception (among a few) may be ECS and EKS, where ECS was probably the wrong bet for them now that K8s is getting so much traction. Hence EKS. But being able to put use either EKS or ECS for orchestration, and then schedule those tasks on either EC2 or Fargate (depending on compute needs), opens up a lot of options. You can start simple and grow as requirements become more complex—without fundamentally changing the deployment artifact. That was the promise of containers originally, so it's nice to see it play out.
• deleted 9y ago
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• cdnsteve 9y ago
  Would this be a direct competitor to Google Cloud's app engine flexible? Aka i just upload my docker container?
• drharby 9y ago
  It has nothing to so with that movie, or the syndicates series based on zeh movie... A part of me really hopes the pm named it this as an aquateen reference
• bebop22 9y ago
  How is it different than ECS? I tried to apply for it and just end up on my ECS Page.
• elricL 9y ago
  It would be interesting to see how fast the startup time of the docker containers will be. If its for faster than EC2, this could be used for some super elastic job processing. Somewhere between EC2 and lambda. I doubt the startup time would be faster, since the docker image download would hit the startup timing. If the startup time is fast, and it can run of GPU, a killer Deep learning platform could run on this.
• JohannesH 9y ago
  I wonder when Fargate will be hit GA and be available in the Ireland region.
• mk89 9y ago
  After reading lots of negative comments about pricing, I think that many people don't get it - AWS Fargate is not a replacement of EC2 nor ECS. It's a sort of lambda with containers and lots of features (HA, autoscaling, etc.) implemented + pay-per second - which is absolutely great! This way you could run short and long running jobs which are container-based (a django-admin job that performs migrations? dunno... just saying...), and also your "normal" services without taking care of scaling up/down, HA, etc. It's not for everyone, it's not a "one solution fits all", it's very specific and what it does, it does it great (only tested, of course we have to see long-term...), because you don't need anymore to manage a cluster, which is really expensive especially because you don't want to shutdown your machines when you go home and restart them when you come back to the office (for example, in case you don't have a smart autoscaling in place). Thanks AWS for providing this service!
  • matharmin 9y ago
    I strongly agree with you. Comparing the pricing of Fargate to EC2 is the same as comparing the pricing of EC2 to bare metal. It is more expensive, but it is also more convenient, and is easier to scale up and down.
  • urza 9y ago
    So what would be some real use cases?
    • mk89 9y ago
      I mentioned one use case - which is very similar to a batch, I agree, therefore there is no real difference there with Fargate/Batch. However, you don't have to execute only batches with it, you can also run a temporary service within a specific VPC - with the biggest advantage that you don't have to resize/manage your cluster. For example, you could set a Cloudwatch alert that, reached a peak of 80% of CPU, spins up a bunch of instances for a specific image with Fargate and keeps it alive until the CPU goes down to 60% (there it can be stopped). This way you don't have to worry about optimizing your autoscaling in ECS, because sometimes peaks happen in a matter of few seconds and it could be the case that you have not enough EC2 instances running, because lots of containers are running and they are spinning up in parallel. With Fargate it's like having an unlimited amount of EC2 instances running in your cluster... (which you pay for but certainly less than if you really had such EC2 instances always running) Let's try to think about it from another point of view: you could also try to use Fargate to execute all your services, but then you would get the following features already implemented: - autoscaling - HA - maintenance/cluster management However: - you don't like how AWS does autoscaling, because you notice that many times the nodes are under stress, and you would like to use a different strategy, or maybe you have computed your own autoscaling algorithm which is great and lets you save a large amount of money with it - HA is trivial for you to implement, because you already have a lot of experience with it, lots of CloudFormation scripts, and well, so far it worked like a charm, so why would I want to switch now? the platform is really functioning well, no need to switch to another technology - maintenance is not a problem for you, because your ECS cluster is small and easy to manage Maybe in such cases, yes, you don't need Fargate after all. Keep your ECS cluster and don't worry about that.