13 ms·

Bitcoin passes 10,000 USD

138 points by ianopolous 9y ago

dimillian 9y ago
Not yet. Whatever that crap site is.
- deleted 9y ago
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- ssijak 9y ago
  That site is the best for tracking coin prices..
- cinooo 9y ago
  That "crap site" is in the top 500 for traffic now lol
  - CamelCaseName 9y ago
    Tangentally related but, I once saw a Medium post on r/entrepreneur or r/smallbusiness and left a fairly derisive comment about the site in the comments. Imagine my surprise when I discovered it was made by the co-founder of Twitter!
    - cinooo 9y ago
      did not know that!
- Daviey 9y ago
  On some markets it is... Click the Markets tab. Adding up all the markets where the price is >$10k, it represents 28.43% of current activity. With that representation, it isn't unreasonable to say price is above $10k.
brepl 9y ago
lol
margorczynski 9y ago
And everytime I see a new height beaten I think to myself - "too late to buy now, gonna pop any day now". Still, I have high hopes for cryptos to overtake the current financial system and end the bubble-crash cycle
- mromanuk 9y ago
  I always regret the first time that intended to buy years ago, it was $2, didn't like the broker site, looked too shady.
  - oscilloscope 9y ago
    It was probably MtGox and it was indeed shady.
  - czechdeveloper 9y ago
    Well, i tried to buy many years ago and got scammed for 1000 EUR. You could be way richer now, but you could also end up like me.
  - Double_a_92 9y ago
    You're not alone. hug Been watching it since it was at $8. It got up to 30, crashed back to 4. And I felt lucky for not investing .____.
- aw3c2 9y ago
  You would probably not be happier. jschulenklopper made this awesome post yesterday: There's some story (that I can't find online now) about a group going on a 24 hour journey through a desert. Just before they enter the desert, a man says to them that in the midst of night, they are about to cross a river. "Take as many rocks from the river bed as you can. The next day, you all will be equally sad and happy at the same time." The group indeed crosses a river in the night, and each of the party take a couple of rocks. Some just what they can carry themselves, some what their horse can hold. The next day, when they leave the desert, they discover that the rocks were precious stones (or rocks with gold encased). And everyone in the group is comparably joyful about their new wealth, and comparably sad that they didn't take more rocks. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15783218 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15783218
maephisto 9y ago
Even if it's not > 10k on all markets it's gonna get there in the next hours
- sleepychu 9y ago
  I said that confidently yesterday when it surged to 9800 but here we are 12 hours later, still at 9800 (at least on my exchange!) The sell wall at 10k is pretty huge.
sillysaurus3 9y ago
13 days ago I said it was a good idea to buy in at $5800: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15679776 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15679776 72 days ago I said to buy in at $3k: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15259134 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15259134 Both times people were skeptical. I'm not sure there's any moral to this, but it's been an interesting few months.
- tluyben2 9y ago
  I said the same with many warnings surrounded (and I never called it investing), but happy I did buy and a few friends are very grateful. However it could've been the reverse.
  - jaymzcampbell 9y ago
    > it could've been the reverse Totally this. I get asked by friends if they should buy in (or buy more) and my answer is always "if you can afford to lose it, sure". I feel like people asking if they should buy or not right now will be far too distracted by the volatility to profit. If you're asking this (in the hope of a black and white "yes/no" answer) then you will probably also panic sell if it drops 10%, which would be nothing in the context of this year. Dollar cost averaging is what I suggest to my friends (and again, only if they are "happy" to potentially lose a percentage of it quickly as much as they gain). Of course, nobody wants to hear that!
- yodsanklai 9y ago
  Maybe it wasn't a good idea based on the information available at that time?
- weavie 9y ago
  Is it a good idea to buy now?
  - Froyoh 9y ago
    Yes go for it
baybal2 9y ago
Ah, will my kids ever believe me if in the future I will tell them that I once had a whole 50BTC block on my USB flash drive?
- ThomPete 9y ago
  Try 300 for me :/ Got in early enough later though.
- beejiu 9y ago
  Is there any kind of utility to search for a Bitcoin wallet on a hard drive? I am fairly sure I gambled everything I had in Bitcoin from 2013/2014 and I have not used it since. But I just want to double check!
  - 0xfeba 9y ago
    find wallet.dat
grsblk 9y ago
Yesterday already on South Korea-based bitcoin exchanges: https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-price-tops-10000-korean-exchanges/ https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-price-tops-10000-korean-exc...
down 9y ago
I think a lot of negativity here towards bitcoin comes from not getting in earlier, I had the chance to get in 2016 but I didn't, I was an idiot, other than this we should support it, because f... the banks, money printing, corrupt governments... etc.
- aw3c2 9y ago
  I once thought Bitcoin could be useful and be used as a currency. I loved that idea and even used it as such in its infant phase for meaningless fun. What it is now is a disgrace.
  - imustbeevil 9y ago
    It's really telling when the only news about it is how much people are buying it for. Not a new use case. Not a new retailer accepting it. It's worth more because the same people who bought it last year will spend more to buy it this year.
    - hackinthebochs 9y ago
      Retailers accepting it just isn't "news" anymore. This isn't 2012.
      - tom_mellior 9y ago
        If Amazon started accepting Bitcoin directly (as opposed to accepting gift cards that you can buy for Bitcoin elsewhere), that would be enormous news. One of the reason the "retailer X accepts Bitcoin" stories have died off is that almost all of those retailers were ones nobody cared about.
    - hectorr1 9y ago
      Square Cash, Amazon rumors, Wall Street interest, progress on scaling, emerging custody solutions, retail banking integration (Fidelity and USAA), improving regulatory clarity. $170B worth of value today? No. But price is current value + potential future value * likelihood of getting there. People are starting to understand the potential, and working towards that future.
posterboy 9y ago
when there's noone left to offer currency, will goods be offered and inflate the price further?
cs702 9y ago
Here is a list of some of the money-like assets the world needs to function everyday. People everywhere use these assets both for transacting with each other and for storing wealth. Current market capitalization in US dollars: Global money supply (broad) over $90.0 trillion [a] US dollar money supply (M2) $13.8 trillion [b] Euro money supply (M2) $13.2 trillion [c] All coins and banknotes in circulation $7.6 trillion [d] All gold ever mined $7.1 trillion [e] Bitcoin under $0.2 trillion [f] We could debate forever whether any of these assets is "fairly valued" or not, but surely everyone here agrees that if all of them suddenly disappeared, the global economy would ground to a halt and modern society would collapse. Together, these and other money-like assets provide immense value to humankind. Compared to the other money-like assets on the list, Bitcoin is very different. Like gold, Bitcoin's continued existence doesn't depend on the good management of any national economy; however, it depends on the continued existence of the Internet. Unlike the other assets on the list, bitcoins are digital so they can be encrypted, backed up, emailed, etc. Finally, bitcoins will always be scarce -- no more than 21 million bitcoins will ever exist. Bitcoin is truly a new kind of money-like asset. The trillion-dollar question is, to what extent does the world need, to function in the 21st century, a money-like asset with Bitcoin's unique characteristics? Sources: [a] http://money.visualcapitalist.com/worlds-money-markets-one-visualization-2017/ http://money.visualcapitalist.com/worlds-money-markets-one-v... [b] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2 [c] http://sdw.ecb.europa.eu/reports.do?node=1000003501 http://sdw.ecb.europa.eu/reports.do?node=1000003501 [d] http://money.visualcapitalist.com/worlds-money-markets-one-visualization-2017/ http://money.visualcapitalist.com/worlds-money-markets-one-v... [e] https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/08/17/how-does-bitcoins-market-cap-stack-up-next-to-gold.aspx https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/08/17/how-does-bitcoins-... [f] https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/ https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/
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- Double_a_92 9y ago
  So in the absolute best case 1 Bitcoin will be worth the equivalent of $6.5 million of todays usd?
throwaway1dfgdf 9y ago
no one would pay 10,000 for one, but since they're divisible people can buy 0.00001 at this ridiculous price
eqmvii 9y ago
A lot of "fear of missing out" discussion in this thread. Keep in mind that calling market tops is a tricky business. If bitcoin crashes (as it often does after meteoric rises), it will no longer look smart to have invested at many times/price points. There's a mania to the current market, but that's not enough information on its own to predict the size or timing of a correction. The cryptocurrency markets can stay irrational longer than you can remain solvent, just like normal markets.
- mavdi 9y ago
  Invest what you can afford to lose. That's what I did, and I'm glad I did it.
- hardwaresofton 9y ago
  I've struggled with the FOMO myself, mostly because I've watched it so long (or like to tell myself I knew about bitcoin earlier than the average person), but I came to the same realization that I think is critical: Bitcoin is just like other stores of value that fluctuate in price based on some mix of speculation and "actual" value. If you're FOMOing about Bitcoin, why not fear missing out about bluechip stocks? or owning real estate? or futures? or bullion? It is true that creation events for stores of value don't happen just happen every year/decade/century but I wonder why the FOMO around Bitcoin is so acute (for me at least)... it's like a penny stock that I feel like I should have known was going to pop [EDIT] - bouillon -> bullion
  - westiseast 9y ago
    * bullion Just in case anyone thought they’d missed out on the French soup stock bubble ;)
    - hardwaresofton 9y ago
      garci pour la correction en temps opportun! -- just corrected it in the comment I also... don't speak French so my apologies to whoever had to suffer through that
joakleaf 9y ago
Anyone have any idea why it exploded like this recently?
- hackinthebochs 9y ago
  Awareness grows exponentially. And for an asset that's so easy to "invest" in, and having such a limited supply, the price curve grows proportionately with awareness unlikely anything in the past.
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- acjohnson55 9y ago
  From my perspective, nothing fundamental has changed about the Bitcoin situation since it was priced at about $1000. I suspect that some inevitable catastrophe is going to eventually cause a massive selloff. Per usual. I have plenty of FOMO for not buying a couple years ago. But not trying to jump on the bandwagon now.
  - corobo 9y ago
    If you had bought in a couple years ago would you have been the type to sell out a year ago? While I regret not grabbing a couple extra coins back in 2013 when I was playing with BTC I know for a fact I'd have cashed out in the hundreds. If not then definitely would have when it was worth $1000/1BTC
    - acjohnson55 9y ago
      > If you had bought in a couple years ago would you have been the type to sell out a year ago? Probably so! Either that, or I'd be dollar cost averaging through the booms and busts and it wouldn't matter anyway. That's why I don't really kick myself over it. I keep going back to my fundamental beliefs: - There's definitely something to the underlying technology. - It has not yet impacted the life of anyone I know, aside from its fluctuating price. So basically, it's had about the same impact as sports betting. - It's yet not clear to me whether trustlessness is worth it. (i.e. whither Bitcoin, Ethereum, or permissioned blockchains)
sunseb 9y ago
In the beginning, there was this wonderful vision of making Bitcoin the currency of the future. I loved that. Now it's just all greed. Bitcoin will go the moon, that's all that matters now. Guess what, you can't create value out of thin air. Bitcoin is useless, you can't do anything with it, except buying and waiting that others buy after you so the price rises up: that's pretty much the definition of speculation.
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- callahad 9y ago
  > Bitcoin is useless, you can't do anything with it There's a cafe down the street from me that accepts Bitcoin. I could literally buy a meal with it right now. It may not be rational, but it has actual utility.
  - testvox 9y ago
    But with a 4 dollar transaction fee why would you use Bitcoin for such things?
    - mrweasel 9y ago
      Why is there a transaction fee on Bitcoins? Who get the money? One of the argument for Bitcoin originally was no transaction fee, because there's no middleman.
      - megous 9y ago
        It was not the original argument. Search the original bitcoin paper for a word fee, the first occurance explains it.
      - apexalpha 9y ago
        Once all Bitcoin will be created the 'fee' will be what miners get for verifying transaction blocks. They also do now, but coupled with the creation of new bitcoins.
CryptoPunk 9y ago
Meanwhile Ethereum just broke 600K txs in one day. A much more useful metric IMO. Bitcoin's price rise has decoupled from its transaction volume growth: https://i.redd.it/dreefk5ggkzz.png https://i.redd.it/dreefk5ggkzz.png
- lawn 9y ago
  Yeah I don't see how Bitcoin could possibly continue growing in valuation without being able to grow in tx/s as well.
- Yizahi 9y ago
  Hah, you can clearly see a point when Bitfinex started tether scam this spring.
- nmj 9y ago
  Guess what has to happen to maintain or increase value transfer when you have reached a limit on blocksize. Ding ding ding! You guessed it! The price must rise. The utility has not degraded and just looking at 'number of transactions' is not useful. Just because I can move some arbitrary number of units in a given timeframe does not mean my unit is more valuable. Banks can move way more than 600k USD transfers in a day.
  - CryptoPunk 9y ago
    >>Guess what has to happen to maintain or increase value transfer when you have reached a limit on blocksize. Ding ding ding! You guessed it! No, the price rise is not in any way conditioned on the block size being limited. Whether $1 billion worth of coins is being moved via 1 million or 1 thousand txs has no bearing on what the per coin price has to be. All that matters is the value moved and the number of coins doing the moving. >>The utility has not degraded and just looking at 'number of transactions' is not useful. Being limited to larger value transactions with higher fees hugely degrades utility.
danols 9y ago
2017 is the first year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Reporting_Standard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Reporting_Standard is implemented. The rich need somewhere new to store their offshore cash.
coinbeats 9y ago
The claim that bitcoin is useless is not valid. In fact, the anonymity of bitcoin might be of huge value to the "dark side": drug dealers, tax evaders, porn viewers, ... You name it. These hidden markets, though usually under radar of the public, could contribute significantly the bitcoin's market cap. Btw, this weekend I hacked together to chatbot to send me bitcoin-related news alert. Feel free to try it out: https://www.facebook.com/messages/t/1503071509774319 https://www.facebook.com/messages/t/1503071509774319
- walrus1066 9y ago
  It's not really useful for that either. If I was a drug dealer, I'd want to use a more stable asset than bitcoin. Otherwise I risk buying goods when the price of coin is high, but when I want to sell my goods the price might have halved, at which point I'd either have to take a loss, or hold off from selling my drugs until the coin value has recovered, which could be ages, it'd be bad for business.
- zaarn 9y ago
  Bitcoin is not anonymous, it's pseudonymous. Big difference. If you want actual anonymity there is Monero and to some extend ZCash.
- wrinkl3 9y ago
  Nowadays Bitcoin is much less anonymous than it once used to be - the nature of its blockchain is inherently transparent and I imagine every large law enforcement agency in the world has resources allocated towards blockchain analysis. All the cool kids are buying their drugs with Monero now, since its blockchain allows for a much greater degree of anonymity.
tudorconstantin 9y ago
John McCafee on twitter: "It amazes me that human beings can deceive themselves. Bitcoin has been doubling every month for the past three months, yet an analyst suggests that it might grow, in the next 8 months, by 12%. They opened the door to the new world, but brought the rules from the old world."
- patrickaljord 9y ago
  He also said he would eat his own d*ck if it didn't get to $500k in 3 years, the guy's a bit crazy. https://twitter.com/officialmcafee/status/887024683379544065?lang=en https://twitter.com/officialmcafee/status/887024683379544065...
djhworld 9y ago
My Dad was asking me about Bitcoin the other day, he's been receiving spam emails to the point where it's surfacing on his radar as something to be curious about. Not sure if that means the ship has sailed now, or that BTC is hitting the mainstream.
chrischen 9y ago
Seems like Bitcoin's main use cases are for 1) accepting payments online for businesses that might not otherwise be authorized to do so (illegal stuff), and 2) avoiding currency controls for moving money across borders.
- nwah1 9y ago
  Agreed. There's no other valid use case. For anything lawful, there's cheaper, more convenient, more stable alternatives and at the end of the day governments demand people pay taxes in their official currencies. If you want to have a house in the US, you need to pay USD to the government. The total land value of the US is conservatively in the tens of trillions, and the total amount of taxation in general, when adding up all the levels of government, is about 40% of GDP. You can talk all day about network effects, but guess which currency is going to get them... the one with trillions in compulsory demand, or the one that does not?
baby 9y ago
admins: imo this post should not be penalized because it includes bitcoin in the title. This is a pretty huge milestone and deserves some time on the front page.
simonsarris 9y ago
What caused it to go to 10,000? The news that it went to 9,000? Hm.
- Yizahi 9y ago
  This caused it - http://omnichest.info/lookupadd.aspx?address=3MbYQMMmSkC3AgWkj9FMo5LsPTW1zBTwXL http://omnichest.info/lookupadd.aspx?address=3MbYQMMmSkC3AgW...
Carhughes 9y ago
I'm hardly an expert on Bitcoin but was is glaringly obvious over the past month has been the highly speculative betting on Bitcoin. This run up seems like a musical chairs and when the music stops there will be a lot more standing counting their losses. #JustKeepinItReal
- JoeAltmaier 9y ago
  Its actually built into blockchain currencies, that no regulation is even possible. Until they come up with a feedback mechanism, I'm staying the hell away from them.
zamazingo 9y ago
How does everyone here buy/exchange bitcoin without giving every little bit of detail about themselves (e.g. bank account, driver's license, etc) away? Every time I look into it to buy online, I'm amazed by the sheer amount of PII information I would have to expose.

138 points by ianopolous 9y ago

dimillian 9y ago

Not yet. Whatever that crap site is.

deleted 9y ago
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- deleted 9y ago
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ssijak 9y ago
That site is the best for tracking coin prices..
cinooo 9y ago
That "crap site" is in the top 500 for traffic now lol
- CamelCaseName 9y ago
  Tangentally related but, I once saw a Medium post on r/entrepreneur or r/smallbusiness and left a fairly derisive comment about the site in the comments. Imagine my surprise when I discovered it was made by the co-founder of Twitter!
  - cinooo 9y ago
    did not know that!
Daviey 9y ago
On some markets it is... Click the Markets tab. Adding up all the markets where the price is >$10k, it represents 28.43% of current activity. With that representation, it isn't unreasonable to say price is above $10k.

brepl 9y ago

lol

margorczynski 9y ago

And everytime I see a new height beaten I think to myself - "too late to buy now, gonna pop any day now". Still, I have high hopes for cryptos to overtake the current financial system and end the bubble-crash cycle

mromanuk 9y ago
I always regret the first time that intended to buy years ago, it was $2, didn't like the broker site, looked too shady.
- oscilloscope 9y ago
  It was probably MtGox and it was indeed shady.
- czechdeveloper 9y ago
  Well, i tried to buy many years ago and got scammed for 1000 EUR. You could be way richer now, but you could also end up like me.
- Double_a_92 9y ago
  You're not alone. hug Been watching it since it was at $8. It got up to 30, crashed back to 4. And I felt lucky for not investing .____.
aw3c2 9y ago
You would probably not be happier. jschulenklopper made this awesome post yesterday: There's some story (that I can't find online now) about a group going on a 24 hour journey through a desert. Just before they enter the desert, a man says to them that in the midst of night, they are about to cross a river. "Take as many rocks from the river bed as you can. The next day, you all will be equally sad and happy at the same time." The group indeed crosses a river in the night, and each of the party take a couple of rocks. Some just what they can carry themselves, some what their horse can hold. The next day, when they leave the desert, they discover that the rocks were precious stones (or rocks with gold encased). And everyone in the group is comparably joyful about their new wealth, and comparably sad that they didn't take more rocks. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15783218 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15783218

maephisto 9y ago

Even if it's not > 10k on all markets it's gonna get there in the next hours

sleepychu 9y ago
I said that confidently yesterday when it surged to 9800 but here we are 12 hours later, still at 9800 (at least on my exchange!) The sell wall at 10k is pretty huge.

sillysaurus3 9y ago

13 days ago I said it was a good idea to buy in at $5800: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15679776 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15679776 72 days ago I said to buy in at $3k: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15259134 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15259134 Both times people were skeptical. I'm not sure there's any moral to this, but it's been an interesting few months.

tluyben2 9y ago
I said the same with many warnings surrounded (and I never called it investing), but happy I did buy and a few friends are very grateful. However it could've been the reverse.
- jaymzcampbell 9y ago
  > it could've been the reverse Totally this. I get asked by friends if they should buy in (or buy more) and my answer is always "if you can afford to lose it, sure". I feel like people asking if they should buy or not right now will be far too distracted by the volatility to profit. If you're asking this (in the hope of a black and white "yes/no" answer) then you will probably also panic sell if it drops 10%, which would be nothing in the context of this year. Dollar cost averaging is what I suggest to my friends (and again, only if they are "happy" to potentially lose a percentage of it quickly as much as they gain). Of course, nobody wants to hear that!
yodsanklai 9y ago
Maybe it wasn't a good idea based on the information available at that time?
weavie 9y ago
Is it a good idea to buy now?
- Froyoh 9y ago
  Yes go for it

baybal2 9y ago

Ah, will my kids ever believe me if in the future I will tell them that I once had a whole 50BTC block on my USB flash drive?

ThomPete 9y ago
Try 300 for me :/ Got in early enough later though.
beejiu 9y ago
Is there any kind of utility to search for a Bitcoin wallet on a hard drive? I am fairly sure I gambled everything I had in Bitcoin from 2013/2014 and I have not used it since. But I just want to double check!
- 0xfeba 9y ago
  find wallet.dat

grsblk 9y ago

Yesterday already on South Korea-based bitcoin exchanges: https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-price-tops-10000-korean-exchanges/ https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-price-tops-10000-korean-exc...

down 9y ago

I think a lot of negativity here towards bitcoin comes from not getting in earlier, I had the chance to get in 2016 but I didn't, I was an idiot, other than this we should support it, because f... the banks, money printing, corrupt governments... etc.

aw3c2 9y ago
I once thought Bitcoin could be useful and be used as a currency. I loved that idea and even used it as such in its infant phase for meaningless fun. What it is now is a disgrace.
- imustbeevil 9y ago
  It's really telling when the only news about it is how much people are buying it for. Not a new use case. Not a new retailer accepting it. It's worth more because the same people who bought it last year will spend more to buy it this year.
  - hackinthebochs 9y ago
    Retailers accepting it just isn't "news" anymore. This isn't 2012.
    - tom_mellior 9y ago
      If Amazon started accepting Bitcoin directly (as opposed to accepting gift cards that you can buy for Bitcoin elsewhere), that would be enormous news. One of the reason the "retailer X accepts Bitcoin" stories have died off is that almost all of those retailers were ones nobody cared about.
  - hectorr1 9y ago
    Square Cash, Amazon rumors, Wall Street interest, progress on scaling, emerging custody solutions, retail banking integration (Fidelity and USAA), improving regulatory clarity. $170B worth of value today? No. But price is current value + potential future value * likelihood of getting there. People are starting to understand the potential, and working towards that future.

posterboy 9y ago

when there's noone left to offer currency, will goods be offered and inflate the price further?

cs702 9y ago

Here is a list of some of the money-like assets the world needs to function everyday. People everywhere use these assets both for transacting with each other and for storing wealth. Current market capitalization in US dollars: Global money supply (broad) over $90.0 trillion [a] US dollar money supply (M2) $13.8 trillion [b] Euro money supply (M2) $13.2 trillion [c] All coins and banknotes in circulation $7.6 trillion [d] All gold ever mined $7.1 trillion [e] Bitcoin under $0.2 trillion [f] We could debate forever whether any of these assets is "fairly valued" or not, but surely everyone here agrees that if all of them suddenly disappeared, the global economy would ground to a halt and modern society would collapse. Together, these and other money-like assets provide immense value to humankind. Compared to the other money-like assets on the list, Bitcoin is very different. Like gold, Bitcoin's continued existence doesn't depend on the good management of any national economy; however, it depends on the continued existence of the Internet. Unlike the other assets on the list, bitcoins are digital so they can be encrypted, backed up, emailed, etc. Finally, bitcoins will always be scarce -- no more than 21 million bitcoins will ever exist. Bitcoin is truly a new kind of money-like asset. The trillion-dollar question is, to what extent does the world need, to function in the 21st century, a money-like asset with Bitcoin's unique characteristics? Sources: [a] http://money.visualcapitalist.com/worlds-money-markets-one-visualization-2017/ http://money.visualcapitalist.com/worlds-money-markets-one-v... [b] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2 [c] http://sdw.ecb.europa.eu/reports.do?node=1000003501 http://sdw.ecb.europa.eu/reports.do?node=1000003501 [d] http://money.visualcapitalist.com/worlds-money-markets-one-visualization-2017/ http://money.visualcapitalist.com/worlds-money-markets-one-v... [e] https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/08/17/how-does-bitcoins-market-cap-stack-up-next-to-gold.aspx https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/08/17/how-does-bitcoins-... [f] https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/ https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/

deleted 9y ago
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Double_a_92 9y ago
So in the absolute best case 1 Bitcoin will be worth the equivalent of $6.5 million of todays usd?

throwaway1dfgdf 9y ago

no one would pay 10,000 for one, but since they're divisible people can buy 0.00001 at this ridiculous price

eqmvii 9y ago

A lot of "fear of missing out" discussion in this thread. Keep in mind that calling market tops is a tricky business. If bitcoin crashes (as it often does after meteoric rises), it will no longer look smart to have invested at many times/price points. There's a mania to the current market, but that's not enough information on its own to predict the size or timing of a correction. The cryptocurrency markets can stay irrational longer than you can remain solvent, just like normal markets.

mavdi 9y ago
Invest what you can afford to lose. That's what I did, and I'm glad I did it.
hardwaresofton 9y ago
I've struggled with the FOMO myself, mostly because I've watched it so long (or like to tell myself I knew about bitcoin earlier than the average person), but I came to the same realization that I think is critical: Bitcoin is just like other stores of value that fluctuate in price based on some mix of speculation and "actual" value. If you're FOMOing about Bitcoin, why not fear missing out about bluechip stocks? or owning real estate? or futures? or bullion? It is true that creation events for stores of value don't happen just happen every year/decade/century but I wonder why the FOMO around Bitcoin is so acute (for me at least)... it's like a penny stock that I feel like I should have known was going to pop [EDIT] - bouillon -> bullion
- westiseast 9y ago
  * bullion Just in case anyone thought they’d missed out on the French soup stock bubble ;)
  - hardwaresofton 9y ago
    garci pour la correction en temps opportun! -- just corrected it in the comment I also... don't speak French so my apologies to whoever had to suffer through that

joakleaf 9y ago

Anyone have any idea why it exploded like this recently?

hackinthebochs 9y ago
Awareness grows exponentially. And for an asset that's so easy to "invest" in, and having such a limited supply, the price curve grows proportionately with awareness unlikely anything in the past.
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acjohnson55 9y ago
From my perspective, nothing fundamental has changed about the Bitcoin situation since it was priced at about $1000. I suspect that some inevitable catastrophe is going to eventually cause a massive selloff. Per usual. I have plenty of FOMO for not buying a couple years ago. But not trying to jump on the bandwagon now.
- corobo 9y ago
  If you had bought in a couple years ago would you have been the type to sell out a year ago? While I regret not grabbing a couple extra coins back in 2013 when I was playing with BTC I know for a fact I'd have cashed out in the hundreds. If not then definitely would have when it was worth $1000/1BTC
  - acjohnson55 9y ago
    > If you had bought in a couple years ago would you have been the type to sell out a year ago? Probably so! Either that, or I'd be dollar cost averaging through the booms and busts and it wouldn't matter anyway. That's why I don't really kick myself over it. I keep going back to my fundamental beliefs: - There's definitely something to the underlying technology. - It has not yet impacted the life of anyone I know, aside from its fluctuating price. So basically, it's had about the same impact as sports betting. - It's yet not clear to me whether trustlessness is worth it. (i.e. whither Bitcoin, Ethereum, or permissioned blockchains)

sunseb 9y ago

In the beginning, there was this wonderful vision of making Bitcoin the currency of the future. I loved that. Now it's just all greed. Bitcoin will go the moon, that's all that matters now. Guess what, you can't create value out of thin air. Bitcoin is useless, you can't do anything with it, except buying and waiting that others buy after you so the price rises up: that's pretty much the definition of speculation.

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callahad 9y ago
> Bitcoin is useless, you can't do anything with it There's a cafe down the street from me that accepts Bitcoin. I could literally buy a meal with it right now. It may not be rational, but it has actual utility.
- testvox 9y ago
  But with a 4 dollar transaction fee why would you use Bitcoin for such things?
  - mrweasel 9y ago
    Why is there a transaction fee on Bitcoins? Who get the money? One of the argument for Bitcoin originally was no transaction fee, because there's no middleman.
    - megous 9y ago
      It was not the original argument. Search the original bitcoin paper for a word fee, the first occurance explains it.
    - apexalpha 9y ago
      Once all Bitcoin will be created the 'fee' will be what miners get for verifying transaction blocks. They also do now, but coupled with the creation of new bitcoins.

CryptoPunk 9y ago

Meanwhile Ethereum just broke 600K txs in one day. A much more useful metric IMO. Bitcoin's price rise has decoupled from its transaction volume growth: https://i.redd.it/dreefk5ggkzz.png https://i.redd.it/dreefk5ggkzz.png

lawn 9y ago
Yeah I don't see how Bitcoin could possibly continue growing in valuation without being able to grow in tx/s as well.
Yizahi 9y ago
Hah, you can clearly see a point when Bitfinex started tether scam this spring.
nmj 9y ago
Guess what has to happen to maintain or increase value transfer when you have reached a limit on blocksize. Ding ding ding! You guessed it! The price must rise. The utility has not degraded and just looking at 'number of transactions' is not useful. Just because I can move some arbitrary number of units in a given timeframe does not mean my unit is more valuable. Banks can move way more than 600k USD transfers in a day.
- CryptoPunk 9y ago
  >>Guess what has to happen to maintain or increase value transfer when you have reached a limit on blocksize. Ding ding ding! You guessed it! No, the price rise is not in any way conditioned on the block size being limited. Whether $1 billion worth of coins is being moved via 1 million or 1 thousand txs has no bearing on what the per coin price has to be. All that matters is the value moved and the number of coins doing the moving. >>The utility has not degraded and just looking at 'number of transactions' is not useful. Being limited to larger value transactions with higher fees hugely degrades utility.

danols 9y ago

2017 is the first year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Reporting_Standard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Reporting_Standard is implemented. The rich need somewhere new to store their offshore cash.

coinbeats 9y ago

The claim that bitcoin is useless is not valid. In fact, the anonymity of bitcoin might be of huge value to the "dark side": drug dealers, tax evaders, porn viewers, ... You name it. These hidden markets, though usually under radar of the public, could contribute significantly the bitcoin's market cap. Btw, this weekend I hacked together to chatbot to send me bitcoin-related news alert. Feel free to try it out: https://www.facebook.com/messages/t/1503071509774319 https://www.facebook.com/messages/t/1503071509774319

walrus1066 9y ago
It's not really useful for that either. If I was a drug dealer, I'd want to use a more stable asset than bitcoin. Otherwise I risk buying goods when the price of coin is high, but when I want to sell my goods the price might have halved, at which point I'd either have to take a loss, or hold off from selling my drugs until the coin value has recovered, which could be ages, it'd be bad for business.
zaarn 9y ago
Bitcoin is not anonymous, it's pseudonymous. Big difference. If you want actual anonymity there is Monero and to some extend ZCash.
wrinkl3 9y ago
Nowadays Bitcoin is much less anonymous than it once used to be - the nature of its blockchain is inherently transparent and I imagine every large law enforcement agency in the world has resources allocated towards blockchain analysis. All the cool kids are buying their drugs with Monero now, since its blockchain allows for a much greater degree of anonymity.

tudorconstantin 9y ago

John McCafee on twitter: "It amazes me that human beings can deceive themselves. Bitcoin has been doubling every month for the past three months, yet an analyst suggests that it might grow, in the next 8 months, by 12%. They opened the door to the new world, but brought the rules from the old world."

patrickaljord 9y ago
He also said he would eat his own d*ck if it didn't get to $500k in 3 years, the guy's a bit crazy. https://twitter.com/officialmcafee/status/887024683379544065?lang=en https://twitter.com/officialmcafee/status/887024683379544065...

djhworld 9y ago

My Dad was asking me about Bitcoin the other day, he's been receiving spam emails to the point where it's surfacing on his radar as something to be curious about. Not sure if that means the ship has sailed now, or that BTC is hitting the mainstream.

chrischen 9y ago

Seems like Bitcoin's main use cases are for 1) accepting payments online for businesses that might not otherwise be authorized to do so (illegal stuff), and 2) avoiding currency controls for moving money across borders.

nwah1 9y ago
Agreed. There's no other valid use case. For anything lawful, there's cheaper, more convenient, more stable alternatives and at the end of the day governments demand people pay taxes in their official currencies. If you want to have a house in the US, you need to pay USD to the government. The total land value of the US is conservatively in the tens of trillions, and the total amount of taxation in general, when adding up all the levels of government, is about 40% of GDP. You can talk all day about network effects, but guess which currency is going to get them... the one with trillions in compulsory demand, or the one that does not?

baby 9y ago

admins: imo this post should not be penalized because it includes bitcoin in the title. This is a pretty huge milestone and deserves some time on the front page.

simonsarris 9y ago

What caused it to go to 10,000? The news that it went to 9,000? Hm.

Yizahi 9y ago
This caused it - http://omnichest.info/lookupadd.aspx?address=3MbYQMMmSkC3AgWkj9FMo5LsPTW1zBTwXL http://omnichest.info/lookupadd.aspx?address=3MbYQMMmSkC3AgW...

Carhughes 9y ago

I'm hardly an expert on Bitcoin but was is glaringly obvious over the past month has been the highly speculative betting on Bitcoin. This run up seems like a musical chairs and when the music stops there will be a lot more standing counting their losses. #JustKeepinItReal

JoeAltmaier 9y ago
Its actually built into blockchain currencies, that no regulation is even possible. Until they come up with a feedback mechanism, I'm staying the hell away from them.

zamazingo 9y ago

How does everyone here buy/exchange bitcoin without giving every little bit of detail about themselves (e.g. bank account, driver's license, etc) away? Every time I look into it to buy online, I'm amazed by the sheer amount of PII information I would have to expose.