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The Apple Watch can detect hypertension and sleep apnea, a new study suggests
- arikr 9y agoDoes anyone know how we can use this today?
- cstrat 9y agoYes I want to know this too. I feel like I may have mild sleep apnea and would love to see what my results look like!
- brandonb 9y agoGood question—this clinical validation study is a first, necessary step to prove that this technology is accurate enough to be used in a real-world setting, but the research study alone is a milestone rather than the end goal. We're now working on implementing care pathways within the Cardiogram app. If all goes well, you should hear something from us in the next few months. (In general, a digital health startup requires more patience than most other types of startups: you need to run rigorous, IRB-approved clinical studies to prove the technology really works; work with health systems and insurers rigorously show health economics; and comply with applicable regulations like HIPAA and FDA. There are just a lot of details to think through.)
- arikr 9y agoOkay. Any way for me to get updates on when it's available for use?
- brandonb 9y agoIt'll appear directly in the Cardiogram app. (Would you personally find it helpful to have another mechanism, like a mailing list?)
- arikr 9y agoYeah. Don't have an Apple watch but if it can detect sleep apnea or other issues, I'd consider buying one for my partner. Mailing list would be ideal.
- brandonb 9y agoI'm one of the co-founders of Cardiogram and involved in this study -- happy to answer questions if folks have them! (EDIT: heading to bed, but will answer questions in the morning!)
- ISL 9y agoI didn't see a reference in the TechCrunch article -- is there a technical paper out? Edit: A presentation is linked, as "study": Link to presentation: http://www.abstractsonline.com/pp8/#!/4412/presentation/45220 http://www.abstractsonline.com/pp8/#!/4412/presentation/4522... A followup: Does the neural network provide some extra insight into what part of the waveform/time-series of pulses is able to provide predictive information?
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- brandonb 9y agoCorrect -- the abstract will be included in a special issue of Circulation: http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/136/Suppl_1/A21042 http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/136/Suppl_1/A21042 The study was presented at the American Heart Association's Scientific Sessions earlier today. We included some details beyond what appears in the TechCrunch article in a blog post here: https://blog.cardiogr.am/screening-for-hypertension-and-sleep-apnea-with-deepheart-416c9bc03efc https://blog.cardiogr.am/screening-for-hypertension-and-slee... I'd expect a more mature version of this work to appear in a medical journal, but that often takes 6-12 extra months.
- ktta 9y agoCouldn't find the measurement process. What is the common root cause of error? Inaccuracies in measurement or the model classifying data incorrectly?
- bertil 9y agoSorry for the habitual rant, but I feel the need to point out those are not open articles. Your case is typically something of interest to people who have no reason to have access to medical journal stores and… :( This thread is not the right place to grab pitchforks, just a reminder open source science was still an on-going effort.
- justinjlynn 9y agoDanger, danger: heavily regulated waters ahead! Remember these words well: "This statement has not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease."
- clort 9y ago“And then you’d guide them through the appropriate final diagnosis, which would be through a blood pressure cuff and then treatment.” so the intention is that this would generate a warning to go to your doctor?
- brandonb 9y agoIt's a little more nuanced—the exact next step depends on the health condition, co-morbidities, previous tests you've taken, which interventions are covered by your insurance, etc. Think this diagram of how Slack decides to send a notification, but for health: https://twitter.com/codevisuals/status/838881724016787457?lang=en https://twitter.com/codevisuals/status/838881724016787457?la... :)
- omginternets 9y agoI came to say "danger, danger" but for another reason. I think a whole generation of fitbit users are going to be horrified when their insurance premiums go up based on data that was purchased by insurers. If Apple watch starts making a health play, I don't see why it would be any different.
- bertil 9y agoApple has been aggressively branding as the company that does not need to sell your data because their margins on hardware allow them to. It might not always be the case but they can future-proof that claim by keeping that data on your device or protect it using differential privacy. What might happen if health plans become habitually based on tracking (which I expect will be the case) is that having an Apple watch (or nothing) will be considered suspicious and charged a premium.
- edejong 9y ago97% accuracy seems high, but with an approximate sales number of 10 million Apple watches, it will give 300 thousand users an incorrect diagnosis.
- outworlder 9y agoWhich is not so bad. They can follow up and figure it out. Some people will go for decades before getting a proper diagnostic - or even die before they get one.
- ekianjo 9y ago> Which is not so bad. They can follow up and figure it out. Following up is not free. So that's cost incurred for the ones who have no problem in the first place.
- aequitas 9y agoThink about the cost of not following up. Personal health, productivity, life quality. Also here in the Netherlands we have healthcare. I'd rather see these emerging devices offer good warnings to go see a doctor then people not going at all or going to often for every little thing that they feel and googled on the internet because they are to unsure.
- vidarh 9y agoSee my long response elsewhere. Depending on incidence rates and whether or not the effect of following up earlier is sufficiently large, there can - and sometimes is - a net detrimental effect to wrongfully diagnosing someone with a condition. Even when following up is relatively simple and risk free, and lives are saved by finding conditions early. E.g. cause an extra million doctors visits due to wrongly diagnosing people, and the incident rate of e.g. extra infections transmitted from another patient, or compounded misdiagnosis leading to extra interventions which have some risk of failure, or even just accidents on the way to the doctors office, very quickly leads to extra harm just from the sheer volume. That extra harm might be worth it, if the early diagnosis of others save enough lives - the same way seat belts kills some people but save far more. But it also might not, e.g. if the condition is rare enough, or early detection have little enough effect in improving outcomes.
- demomode 9y agoAs someone with diagnosed apnea I have so many doubts about this. Machines to diagnose apnea have lots of sensors including electrodes, "chest-band" pulsometers, and "saturationmeters". I have asked doctors about capabilities of smart devices for apnea control or detection, all I got was laughs. Sorry but I think this is not true. Go and see your doctor.
- azernik 9y agoThey say "90% accuracy" for apnea - definitely not high enough for a diagnosis. The study's lead investigator is talking about this as a screening test, not as a firm diagnostic. And given the involvement of UCSF in the study, I'd take this pretty seriously - just make sure to pay attention to the claims the study is actually making, and not the science-journalism hype.
- bertil 9y agoIt’s good enough to raise awareness and I believe sleep apnea could use that.
- PierceJoy 9y ago> Machines to diagnose apnea have lots of sensors including electrodes, "chest-band" pulsometers, and "saturationmeters". It seems like a fallacy to claim that since diagnosis required complicated equipment in the past, that it will be necessary going forward. Machine learning is going to make tons of current diagnostic equipment look archaic in comparison. > I have asked doctors about capabilities of smart devices for apnea control or detection, all I got was laughs. Medical doctors are rarely up to date on the latest technology. I wouldn't be surprised if my doctor has never heard the term machine learning before in his life. Also, their livelihood kind of depends on this technology not being available. Just food for thought.
- cjslep 9y agoIt seems a fallacy to say that "machine learning" will replace the sensors needed to produce the data required to make a diagnosis. Sure the sensors can always be in a smaller, simpler form factor, but that's engineering the sensors specifically. You need data to make a diagnosis, and the magic of machine learning can't replace raw data coming from sensors. I see this kind of confusion a lot, where "machine learning" is mistakenly used to mean obsoleting sensor data instead of obsoleting the hardcoded processing of said data.
- throw401 9y agoI think this is a great feature provided Apple won't collect the data. [edit] Btw, I really don't mind getting down voted, but would appreciate to see your opinion on why you think Apple collecting that data is a good idea.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- melling 9y agoIn the Future Everyone will Wear a Smartwatch https://h4labs.wordpress.com/2015/07/28/in-the-future-everyone-will-wear-a-smartwatch/ https://h4labs.wordpress.com/2015/07/28/in-the-future-everyo...
- downandout 9y agoI'm skeptical about the accuracy of applications like this running on Apple Watch. I bought the Apple Watch Series 3 precisely because of articles like this. I now routinely get messages about how I've achieved my standing goal - while lying in bed watching TV or working on my laptop. If it can't accurately tell whether you're lying down or standing, it is unimaginable to me that it could be remotely accurate in detecting far more complex conditions.
- doikor 9y ago> I now routinely get messages about how I've achieved my standing goal - while lying in bed watching TV or working on my laptop. I routinely get messages about having to stand up while standing up on my standing desk at work. (Series 2 here)
- knolan 9y agoThat’s supposedly expected behaviour. When I’m standing at my rig in the lab it pings me to stand, just like when I sit at my desk. This actually means get up and/or walk about — which usually works to fill that segment of the ring. But I also get false stands when sitting too. I’ve a series 0 however with the lesser sensor heart rate sensor so I don’t get any of these new cardio features.
- megablast 9y agoYou are supposed to go for a walk, which is a good thing.
- 013a 9y agoApple calling it a "standing goal" is a misnomer. Its more of a walking goal. I'm pretty confident that they're actually looking for 1 minute of consistent steps every hour.
- dkonofalski 9y agoIt doesn't have to be walking. It needs to be one minute of movement in a standing position. You can do jumping jacks or walk in place and it counts.
- KirinDave 9y agoUnless you have a heart murmur like I do. Then: it just lies.
- bertil 9y agoI suspect that the technology (and data) from cases like yours will make building either dedicated software or hardware for your case cheaper.
- KirinDave 9y agoMy snarky reply: "It's too bad I have to pay for the priviledge of being included in a data set used for product refinement." Also: no. When I was working as an intern at St. Jude Medical we were training neural networks to recognize heart conditions and adjust other measurements. It was 2002. That work was later published and widely adopted. Modern medical hardware can account for it (inexpensive or older hardware often asks the technician to diagnose and calibrate the machine). It's very frustrating that Apple continues to pretend economy of scale is breaking into new territory.
- bertil 9y agoAdapting your model from 2002 is not a trivial operation. Apple and others are building Machine learning platforms that make that work easier but saying that you worked on it, therefore it should be done by others comes off as a little naive about software integration. Going through other people’s code is not instant or trivial.
- KirinDave 9y agoI'm saying Apple's system fails to catch edge cases that prior ML systems, system using a tiny fraction of the computing power and ultimately based off animal data, achieved. I think the job they're doing is unimpressive. I think it's doubly impressive to imply I have to buy a watch to help them. I don't see why they wouldn't pay me for my unique data. I don't need or want to help them build a shoddy diagnosis product.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- benevol 9y agoIt's quite interesting - the way we have evolved as a society has completely broken the link between "us and our body". We have stopped listening to it a long time ago. If we really listened to our bodies, we wouldn't eat/drink/consume stuff we don't need, we wouldn't be overweight, and we'd rapidly be aware of any health-related imbalance which needs restoring. But no, we forget our original (and free-of-charge) way of functioning and desperately turn to commercial and unnatural solutions. As a start, I recommend looking into the mindful meditation technique, championed by pioneers like John Kabat-Zinn.
- ryan-allen 9y agoHypertension presents no symptoms and left undiagnosed can lead to kidney failure. It's often referred to by doctors as 'the silent killer', and you don't need to eat like shit and be fat to have it. Going to your GP 2-3 times a year and getting your blood pressure checked (and your blood tested for the 'regular stuff') solves the problem. 'Listening to your body' pseudoscience doesn't really solve the problem.
- jen729w 9y agoWhen I had a medical test for my Australian permanent residency - full thorax x-ray, HIV test, the works - I asked the doctor doing the final once-over if "a routine checkup" is something I should be doing. He asked me how old I was. 30-ish, at the time. He asked me if I felt healthy. Yep. He said no, don't bother.
- hnarn 9y agoPretty sure it's an American thing, the idea that you need several checkups a year as if you were a car that constantly needs maintenance, and we can debate forever why that is (my bet is money). It doesn't seem to happen in countries with socialized healthcare where care is distributed accordning to criticality and population risk rather than what generates the most revenue. If you're in your 20's or 30's the odds of you being affected by something are miniscule. It doesn't hurt to get a checkup every few years I guess, but several times a year is ridiculous.
- janaagaard 9y agoInteresting, but are people really sleeping with their Apple Watch on? I don't you need to charge it every night?
- dan00 9y agoHey, just let the bed charge the watch by induction. Health is important!!!
- kayoone 9y agoYou could sleep with it and put it to charge when you wake up and it will probably be charged when you leave the house.
- rejschaap 9y agoThat's why you buy two, one for charging one for wearing.
- pdn 9y agoYou are overestimating how long it takes to charge an Apple Watch and underestimating the battery. 30-45 minutes while you're showering and having breakfast is enough.
- smnscu 9y agoThe only downside to the Apple Watch in my book is the short battery life which should theoretically make it impractical for sleep tracking. I was recently stupefied to discover Nokia Steel [1] and how virtually unknown it is to the general public, my former self included. It comes with great design, no bullshit digital screen, the usual tracking features, and most importantly seems like it's a return to form for Nokia, considering their country's outstanding design heritage. edit: lol I forgot to mention the best part. THE BATTERY LASTS EIGHT MONTHS 1: https://health.nokia.com/es/en/steel https://health.nokia.com/es/en/steel
- nezza-_- 9y agoI believe these watches used to be known under the Withings brand which got bought by Nokia. Very nice design (Max Bill inspired I guess).
- smnscu 9y agoYes, I should've mentioned Withings. I think I've heard good things about them in the past as well, they used to do a scale that now, wow, looks even better [1]. 1: https://health.nokia.com/uk/en/body https://health.nokia.com/uk/en/body
- ce4 9y agoThe steel has no heart rate sensor. Nokias Steel HR has one, however after the aquisition the app quality tanked [1], and my SO had to return both Steel HR and scale for this reason. Connection issues, synch problems and the needed weekly factory reset for both were too much of a hassle. [1]: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.withings.wiscale2 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.withings.w...
- jclardy 9y agoYeah I was going to say, that design looked really familiar.
- RBerenguel 9y ago
- kevinherron 9y agoI went to sleep wearing my Apple Watch one night and awoke to a few hundred irregular heartbeat notifications. They weren’t legit. The watch just can’t get a good heart rate reading if it’s not situated perfectly on your wrist, and while sleeping it was pushed one way or another often enough to be useless.
- jads 9y agoThat's probably the case with all HR monitors, no? If it's not securely in place, any HR monitor will have the same problem. I bought a knock-off velcro wrist strap for my watch and it keeps it in place. I have mixed success with traditional watch straps as my wrist size always seems to be in-between notches.
- kevinherron 9y agoAll the optical wrist-based ones, probably. I imagine if I wore my chest strap monitor I'd have better results as long as I put some kind of jelly on the electrodes to make up for the lack of sweat through the night.
- victor106 9y agoI love my Apple Watch series 1. The one thing that’s frustrating is installing any apps on it takes a really long time.