6 ms·

Of course, it would be cool if Bitcoin didn't require throwaway computation. Then we could use this computation for something that's actually valuable, like pro

Of course, it would be cool if Bitcoin didn't require throwaway computation. Then we could use this computation for something that's actually valuable, like protein folding, or something, and still make use of the waste heat.

virtuexru 9y ago
That "throwaway" computation ensures the integrity & correctness of the blockchain, all while confirming new transactions.
- PKop 9y ago
  Funny you're getting down-voted. This is quite literally a true statement. Then the only point of contention is whether the benefit of this secure network existing and what it gives the world outweighs the cost of the resources consumed. I believe it is, by a large amount.
  - eternalban 9y ago
    It's not "Funny". This forum's intellectual integrity is declining. OP, of course, made a statement of fact.
    - s73ver_ 9y ago
      They made a statement of fact, but it wasn't really relevant to the comment it was replying to.
  - sliverstorm 9y ago
    No, that's not the only one. High on the list is, surely there must be some way to accomplish the same quality of network without requiring so much throwaway work.
- scott_karana 9y ago
  I suspect you're getting downvoted (though not by me) because the hashing computation doesn't directly provide that. Other proof of work algorithms could concurrently secure the block chain and also provide direct, external benefit. There are some suggestions elsewhere in this thread. :)
  - asciimo 9y ago
    Sorry for this metacomment, but how can you tell if someone is getting downvoted?
    - simias 9y ago
      I assume the comment used to appear grayed, which indicates a negative score.
      - scott_karana 9y ago
        In this case, since it wasn't grey any longer, I just took PKop's word for it :)
deleted 9y ago
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ArchReaper 9y ago
>it would be cool if Bitcoin didn't require throwaway computation Sure, but that's a technology that does not exist. If you can figure out how to create a blockchain-like concept, where the 'proof of work' actually contributes to humanity, you have invented the next big thing. Edit: Reading the comments below me, it looks like this is a space that is being actively explored. Exciting!
- uwu 9y ago
  https://curecoin.net https://curecoin.net
  - ArchReaper 9y ago
    From their site: >Curecoin puts ASICs to work at what they are good at–securing a blockchain, while it puts GPUs and CPUs to work with work items that can only be done on them–protein folding. Do you (or anyone) have more information in how this works? Does this reward you directly for doing the folding (as opposed to validating)? How does that work? That looks like a very interesting concept, and if it's technologically sound then I'd love to see it gain popularity.
- azeirah 9y ago
  There are some coins that do something like this, primecoin's proof of work has to do with primes. > The innovative prime proof-of-work in Primecoin not only provides security and minting to the network, but also generates a special form of prime number chains of interest to mathematical research. Thus primecoin network is energy-multiuse, compared to bitcoin. This is of course very basic, but still, it's interesting. http://primecoin.io/ http://primecoin.io/
- brosirmandude 9y ago
  This is actually already a thing., check out Gridcoin. Been around for a couple years but never really took off. I still think it's a really good idea, but might need better marketing. http://www.gridcoin.us/ http://www.gridcoin.us/
- pfraze 9y ago
kemitche 9y ago
Isn't that the premise of Ethereum?
- RealityVoid 9y ago
  It's not. It still uses proof of work, for now at least. They say they want to implement proof of stake. THAT will be interesting, but I want to see if they ever get there.
  - gruez 9y ago
    >They say they want to implement proof of stake. THAT will be interesting what's so interesting about that? there are plenty of proof of stake coins already.
    - ojr 9y ago
      20 billion dollar more in market cap makes it a little bit more interesting than other coins that dont have that market cap, there's more at stake
  - corysama 9y ago
    There was an interesting article "Nothing is cheaper than proof of work"[1] that talked about both proof-of-stake and using miners to heat your home. Basically, if you decide you are willing to pay $9 to make $10 back, then discover you are additionally saving $1 off your heating bill, you will logically be willing to pay up to $10 to make $10 back + $1 in savings. But, the main point of the article was that "proof of stake" is basically selling liquidity (exactly like bonds) and, to get the same job done, the cost of that liquidity won't end up being any cheaper than the cost of the electricity it's replacing. The Ethereum Foundation has published a response [2]. [1] http://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/ http://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/ [2] https://github.com/ethereum/wiki/wiki/Proof-of-Stake-FAQ#doesnt-mc--mr-mean-that-all-consensus-algorithms-with-a-given-security-level-are-equally-efficient-or-in-other-words-equally-wasteful https://github.com/ethereum/wiki/wiki/Proof-of-Stake-FAQ#doe...
deleted 9y ago
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clarkmoody 9y ago
> Then we could use this computation for something that's actually valuable So Bitcoin is not valuable?
- GrinningFool 9y ago
  Perhaps "meaningful" would be a better fit.
- acjohnson55 9y ago
  I mean deriving value the actual results of the computation, not the side-effect that it can serve as a competition. Hypothetically, we could derive value from both of those things.

virtuexru 9y ago

That "throwaway" computation ensures the integrity & correctness of the blockchain, all while confirming new transactions.

PKop 9y ago
Funny you're getting down-voted. This is quite literally a true statement. Then the only point of contention is whether the benefit of this secure network existing and what it gives the world outweighs the cost of the resources consumed. I believe it is, by a large amount.
- eternalban 9y ago
  It's not "Funny". This forum's intellectual integrity is declining. OP, of course, made a statement of fact.
  - s73ver_ 9y ago
    They made a statement of fact, but it wasn't really relevant to the comment it was replying to.
- sliverstorm 9y ago
  No, that's not the only one. High on the list is, surely there must be some way to accomplish the same quality of network without requiring so much throwaway work.
scott_karana 9y ago
I suspect you're getting downvoted (though not by me) because the hashing computation doesn't directly provide that. Other proof of work algorithms could concurrently secure the block chain and also provide direct, external benefit. There are some suggestions elsewhere in this thread. :)
- asciimo 9y ago
  Sorry for this metacomment, but how can you tell if someone is getting downvoted?
  - simias 9y ago
    I assume the comment used to appear grayed, which indicates a negative score.
    - scott_karana 9y ago
      In this case, since it wasn't grey any longer, I just took PKop's word for it :)

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

ArchReaper 9y ago

>it would be cool if Bitcoin didn't require throwaway computation Sure, but that's a technology that does not exist. If you can figure out how to create a blockchain-like concept, where the 'proof of work' actually contributes to humanity, you have invented the next big thing. Edit: Reading the comments below me, it looks like this is a space that is being actively explored. Exciting!

uwu 9y ago
https://curecoin.net https://curecoin.net
- ArchReaper 9y ago
  From their site: >Curecoin puts ASICs to work at what they are good at–securing a blockchain, while it puts GPUs and CPUs to work with work items that can only be done on them–protein folding. Do you (or anyone) have more information in how this works? Does this reward you directly for doing the folding (as opposed to validating)? How does that work? That looks like a very interesting concept, and if it's technologically sound then I'd love to see it gain popularity.
azeirah 9y ago
There are some coins that do something like this, primecoin's proof of work has to do with primes. > The innovative prime proof-of-work in Primecoin not only provides security and minting to the network, but also generates a special form of prime number chains of interest to mathematical research. Thus primecoin network is energy-multiuse, compared to bitcoin. This is of course very basic, but still, it's interesting. http://primecoin.io/ http://primecoin.io/
brosirmandude 9y ago
This is actually already a thing., check out Gridcoin. Been around for a couple years but never really took off. I still think it's a really good idea, but might need better marketing. http://www.gridcoin.us/ http://www.gridcoin.us/
pfraze 9y ago

kemitche 9y ago

Isn't that the premise of Ethereum?

RealityVoid 9y ago
It's not. It still uses proof of work, for now at least. They say they want to implement proof of stake. THAT will be interesting, but I want to see if they ever get there.
- gruez 9y ago
  >They say they want to implement proof of stake. THAT will be interesting what's so interesting about that? there are plenty of proof of stake coins already.
  - ojr 9y ago
    20 billion dollar more in market cap makes it a little bit more interesting than other coins that dont have that market cap, there's more at stake
- corysama 9y ago
  There was an interesting article "Nothing is cheaper than proof of work"[1] that talked about both proof-of-stake and using miners to heat your home. Basically, if you decide you are willing to pay $9 to make $10 back, then discover you are additionally saving $1 off your heating bill, you will logically be willing to pay up to $10 to make $10 back + $1 in savings. But, the main point of the article was that "proof of stake" is basically selling liquidity (exactly like bonds) and, to get the same job done, the cost of that liquidity won't end up being any cheaper than the cost of the electricity it's replacing. The Ethereum Foundation has published a response [2]. [1] http://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/ http://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/ [2] https://github.com/ethereum/wiki/wiki/Proof-of-Stake-FAQ#doesnt-mc--mr-mean-that-all-consensus-algorithms-with-a-given-security-level-are-equally-efficient-or-in-other-words-equally-wasteful https://github.com/ethereum/wiki/wiki/Proof-of-Stake-FAQ#doe...

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

clarkmoody 9y ago

> Then we could use this computation for something that's actually valuable So Bitcoin is not valuable?

GrinningFool 9y ago
Perhaps "meaningful" would be a better fit.
acjohnson55 9y ago
I mean deriving value the actual results of the computation, not the side-effect that it can serve as a competition. Hypothetically, we could derive value from both of those things.