7 ms·

A solution is to only ask for the password when absolutely necessary. I still don't understand why I need to enter a password (or use touchID) to download a fre

by dx034 9y ago

A solution is to only ask for the password when absolutely necessary. I still don't understand why I need to enter a password (or use touchID) to download a free app. Shouldn't it be enough to login when I want to buy something for the first time in-app? AFAIK that's how android handles it.

mcphage 9y ago
You need to enter your password when downloading a free app so that if someone finds your phone they can’t install a malicious hacking or key logging app on to your phone. Installing apps is a security risk, not just a financial issue.
- ClassyJacket 9y ago
  Ios apps cannot log keys at all. They're sandboxed.
  - ascagnel_ 9y ago
    Not entirely -- keyboard apps can intercept keystrokes and send them to a remote server.
    - jsjohnst 9y ago
      Keyboard apps explicitly have to ask for “full access” and you need to opt-in. Also, apps can block 3rd party keyboards, not sure how many secure / banking apps do that though.
      - emmelaich 9y ago
        What's stopping an app from imitating the keyboard? Fundamentally, we're talking about imbuing meaning to patterns of light on a screen. And apps can write on any part of the screen. I suspect the only way to battle this is to have a separate screen which is controllable only from the system. And even many people will fall for password prompts in the main screen.
        jsjohnst 9y ago
        > What's stopping an app from imitating the keyboard? What is the end goal of that? If you have control of the screen (aka are the foreground app), why would you need to emulate the keyboard? If you aren't the foreground app, then you aren't going to be able to render a keyboard on the screen (on iOS anyway).
        emmelaich 9y ago
        > why would you need to emulate the keyboard? to avoid the OS restrictions on which keyboard app is used for passwords. > you aren't going to be able to render a keyboard on the screen (on iOS anyway). Are you saying it is impossible to render the pixels and accept screen touches in a way that it acts and looks like a "real" keyboard app?
        jsjohnst 9y ago
        Dude. Stop and think for a moment. If I am able to render anything on the screen at all, it means I’m the foreground app on iOS. I don’t need to fake being a keyboard, because I can use the real thing Apple provides. So no, I’m not saying it’s impossible if I can render anything at all, what I’m saying is that outside being the foreground app, rendering anything on screen is impossible outside very tightly controlled interfaces (like custom keyboards that this thread was about before you side tracked it).
        emmelaich 9y ago
        I am only talking about what the app does when it is the foreground app. I should have addressed that in the previous comment. It's not a sidetrack, because that's what the actual article is about.
        jsjohnst 9y ago
        So if you really were talking about the foreground app and not just covering now, then why does one need to make a fake keyboard!? That makes no sense at all.
    - adamlett 9y ago
      As far as I can remember, 3rd party keyboards are not allowed for password prompts.
      - yellow_postit 9y ago
        Only when those fields are appropriately annotated, which anecdotally I've run into plenty that are not tagged correctly.
- mikeash 9y ago
  If someone finds my phone, it'll be locked and they won't be able to install anything. If they can unlock the phone then it's already game over for me.
  - mikestew 9y ago
    If someone finds my phone, it'll be locked and they won't be able to install anything “Does your phone have a calculator? Mine’s in my bag and I need to add these values real quick.”
    - zimpenfish 9y ago
      "Then get yours out, you ain't touching my phone."
      - bighi 9y ago
        Easy to say when defending your point on Hacker News. We're already talking about security, and about someone with malicious intent having access to your phone. In the context of this conversation, you're already in simulated high security mental mode. It's completely different when you're relaxed (maybe having some fun), and the person asking for your phone is someone you know. In a relaxed social environment, you will probably not be that rude to someone you know.
        PascLeRasc 9y ago
        I think the person you're responding to isn't familiar with relaxed social environments. Seriously, it's so hard to find empathy in security research.
        zimpenfish 9y ago
        > Seriously, it's so hard to find empathy in security research. If I ever get a job in that sphere, I'll let you know.
        9y ago
- dx034 9y ago
  If someone has access to my unlocked phone, there are worse things they can do than installing a malicious app. First of all, apps are generally tested before they appear in the store. I don't think attackers would install an app if they can just steal the data directly.
  - e12e 9y ago
    If the data they want is a recording of your next client meeting, installing an app (possibly one that exploits a not-yet well-known bug, say a root exploit that only works from an app) might be one way to do it. Remember [1]? Imagine an exploit not targeting safari, but somehow vulnerable via an app, a la [2]. [1] https://citizenlab.ca/2016/08/million-dollar-dissident-iphone-zero-day-nso-group-uae/ https://citizenlab.ca/2016/08/million-dollar-dissident-iphon... [2] http://iphone.appleinsider.com/articles/16/08/29/apple-briefly-allows-pulls-jailbreak-app-on-ios-app-store http://iphone.appleinsider.com/articles/16/08/29/apple-brief...
zeitg3ist 9y ago
There's a toggle (in Settings > App Store, iirc) to ask for auth only on non-free (as in beer) apps/IAPs. Edit: apparently there's no toggle if you have Touch ID enabled. You have to disable it for the App Store for this to work, but I think Touch ID is fast enough anyway...
- vortico 9y ago
  True, but those savvy enough to find that will probably notice when an application requests a password artificially.
UnoriginalGuy 9y ago
It is free in cost, not in terms of your privacy. For example let's say you handed your phone to your kid, they downloaded a free app, gave that app your entire contact list, and then that app spammed everyone you know? For the sake of example let's call that app LinkedIn.
- jsjohnst 9y ago
  > For the sake of example let's call that app LinkedIn. It’s bad that LinkedIn has such a reputation that I automatically assume they likely did just as you alluded that they might’ve done.
  - ballenf 9y ago
    http://addconnectionssettlement.com http://addconnectionssettlement.com They were pioneers in the field!
- e12e 9y ago
  That, or logged your gps location to a Web service? Maybe along with wlan ssids and Mac addresses?
- mikeash 9y ago
  Let's say you already had LinkedIn installed without contact permissions, and your kid flipped that switch and spammed everyone you knew? Maybe Apple should require authentication to grant those permissions.... Of course, then we're back to the problem of password fatigue.
astura 9y ago
What if the phone/iPad belongs to your kid and you don't want her to be installing apps without vetting them beforehand? That's a legitimate reason to ask for prompts. Should be a setting though (if it's not already)
- TheCoreh 9y ago
  Then you can enable parental controls

by dx034 9y ago

mcphage 9y ago

You need to enter your password when downloading a free app so that if someone finds your phone they can’t install a malicious hacking or key logging app on to your phone. Installing apps is a security risk, not just a financial issue.

ClassyJacket 9y ago
Ios apps cannot log keys at all. They're sandboxed.
- ascagnel_ 9y ago
  Not entirely -- keyboard apps can intercept keystrokes and send them to a remote server.
  - jsjohnst 9y ago
    Keyboard apps explicitly have to ask for “full access” and you need to opt-in. Also, apps can block 3rd party keyboards, not sure how many secure / banking apps do that though.
    - emmelaich 9y ago
      What's stopping an app from imitating the keyboard? Fundamentally, we're talking about imbuing meaning to patterns of light on a screen. And apps can write on any part of the screen. I suspect the only way to battle this is to have a separate screen which is controllable only from the system. And even many people will fall for password prompts in the main screen.
      - jsjohnst 9y ago
        > What's stopping an app from imitating the keyboard? What is the end goal of that? If you have control of the screen (aka are the foreground app), why would you need to emulate the keyboard? If you aren't the foreground app, then you aren't going to be able to render a keyboard on the screen (on iOS anyway).
        emmelaich 9y ago
        > why would you need to emulate the keyboard? to avoid the OS restrictions on which keyboard app is used for passwords. > you aren't going to be able to render a keyboard on the screen (on iOS anyway). Are you saying it is impossible to render the pixels and accept screen touches in a way that it acts and looks like a "real" keyboard app?
        jsjohnst 9y ago
        Dude. Stop and think for a moment. If I am able to render anything on the screen at all, it means I’m the foreground app on iOS. I don’t need to fake being a keyboard, because I can use the real thing Apple provides. So no, I’m not saying it’s impossible if I can render anything at all, what I’m saying is that outside being the foreground app, rendering anything on screen is impossible outside very tightly controlled interfaces (like custom keyboards that this thread was about before you side tracked it).
        emmelaich 9y ago
        I am only talking about what the app does when it is the foreground app. I should have addressed that in the previous comment. It's not a sidetrack, because that's what the actual article is about.
        jsjohnst 9y ago
        So if you really were talking about the foreground app and not just covering now, then why does one need to make a fake keyboard!? That makes no sense at all.
  - adamlett 9y ago
    As far as I can remember, 3rd party keyboards are not allowed for password prompts.
    - yellow_postit 9y ago
      Only when those fields are appropriately annotated, which anecdotally I've run into plenty that are not tagged correctly.
mikeash 9y ago
If someone finds my phone, it'll be locked and they won't be able to install anything. If they can unlock the phone then it's already game over for me.
- mikestew 9y ago
  If someone finds my phone, it'll be locked and they won't be able to install anything “Does your phone have a calculator? Mine’s in my bag and I need to add these values real quick.”
  - zimpenfish 9y ago
    "Then get yours out, you ain't touching my phone."
    - bighi 9y ago
      Easy to say when defending your point on Hacker News. We're already talking about security, and about someone with malicious intent having access to your phone. In the context of this conversation, you're already in simulated high security mental mode. It's completely different when you're relaxed (maybe having some fun), and the person asking for your phone is someone you know. In a relaxed social environment, you will probably not be that rude to someone you know.
      - PascLeRasc 9y ago
        I think the person you're responding to isn't familiar with relaxed social environments. Seriously, it's so hard to find empathy in security research.
        zimpenfish 9y ago
        > Seriously, it's so hard to find empathy in security research. If I ever get a job in that sphere, I'll let you know.
      - 9y ago
dx034 9y ago
If someone has access to my unlocked phone, there are worse things they can do than installing a malicious app. First of all, apps are generally tested before they appear in the store. I don't think attackers would install an app if they can just steal the data directly.
- e12e 9y ago
  If the data they want is a recording of your next client meeting, installing an app (possibly one that exploits a not-yet well-known bug, say a root exploit that only works from an app) might be one way to do it. Remember [1]? Imagine an exploit not targeting safari, but somehow vulnerable via an app, a la [2]. [1] https://citizenlab.ca/2016/08/million-dollar-dissident-iphone-zero-day-nso-group-uae/ https://citizenlab.ca/2016/08/million-dollar-dissident-iphon... [2] http://iphone.appleinsider.com/articles/16/08/29/apple-briefly-allows-pulls-jailbreak-app-on-ios-app-store http://iphone.appleinsider.com/articles/16/08/29/apple-brief...

zeitg3ist 9y ago

There's a toggle (in Settings > App Store, iirc) to ask for auth only on non-free (as in beer) apps/IAPs. Edit: apparently there's no toggle if you have Touch ID enabled. You have to disable it for the App Store for this to work, but I think Touch ID is fast enough anyway...

vortico 9y ago
True, but those savvy enough to find that will probably notice when an application requests a password artificially.

UnoriginalGuy 9y ago

It is free in cost, not in terms of your privacy. For example let's say you handed your phone to your kid, they downloaded a free app, gave that app your entire contact list, and then that app spammed everyone you know? For the sake of example let's call that app LinkedIn.

jsjohnst 9y ago
> For the sake of example let's call that app LinkedIn. It’s bad that LinkedIn has such a reputation that I automatically assume they likely did just as you alluded that they might’ve done.
- ballenf 9y ago
  http://addconnectionssettlement.com http://addconnectionssettlement.com They were pioneers in the field!
e12e 9y ago
That, or logged your gps location to a Web service? Maybe along with wlan ssids and Mac addresses?
mikeash 9y ago
Let's say you already had LinkedIn installed without contact permissions, and your kid flipped that switch and spammed everyone you knew? Maybe Apple should require authentication to grant those permissions.... Of course, then we're back to the problem of password fatigue.

astura 9y ago

What if the phone/iPad belongs to your kid and you don't want her to be installing apps without vetting them beforehand? That's a legitimate reason to ask for prompts. Should be a setting though (if it's not already)

TheCoreh 9y ago
Then you can enable parental controls