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Deutsche Bank makes source code publicly available for the first time
- thomasdziedzic 9y agoLink to code: https://github.com/symphonyoss/plexus-interop https://github.com/symphonyoss/plexus-interop
- ben0x539 9y agoSays public domain in the post but all the code says Apache, weird~
- wlesieutre 9y agoArticle author probably doesn't realize there's a distinction between "publicly available" and "public domain"
- iiv 9y agoArticle author is probably a lawyer (or at least proof-read by a lawyer), so that sounds strange.
- kuschku 9y agoGerman law doesn't have a public domain, so Apache license is as close as you can get.
- giancarlostoro 9y agoWhy wouldn't MIT or BSD License be closer?
- kuschku 9y agoApache2 has an explicit patent license.
- mzzter 9y agoInteresting, I would have expected Java or C++ but it turns out to be C# and Javascript.
- dom0 9y agoThere are a bunch of Eclipse xtend files (=Java) around there as well.
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- jackewiehose 9y agoI don't know C#. Should I assume this is the way to write comments? That's just terrible. /// <summary> /// Log a message with the specified <paramref name="logLevel"/>. /// </summary> /// <param name="logLevel">The level of log entry.</param> /// <param name="exception">The exception to log.</param> /// <param name="message">The format of the message object to log.<see cref="string.Format(string,object[])"/> </param> /// <param name="arg1">The first argument for message formatting.</param> [StringFormatMethod("format")] void Log<T1>(LogLevel logLevel, [CanBeNull] Exception exception, string message, T1 arg1);
- almenon 9y agoYeah, that's the standard way to write comments. It looks terrible but it's not bad to write because Visual Studio auto-generates the comment skeleton for you.
- jackewiehose 9y agoEmbedding XML inside a C-comment (as a standard) is just fucked up. Do you have correct syntax highlighting with that? (I don't. But even if emacs would understand this, it's still wrong)
- MichaelGG 9y agoYeah, it's a mess. F# got it right, use triple slash to provide a summary. C# should have at least gotten that, instead of forcing so much XML all the time.
- _dcwr 9y agoC++ with Doxygen and Java with Javadoc are much saner formats for this purpose. What's even worse is that Visual Studio 2015 just vomits out that the XML is malformed when I have C++ headers with Doxygen style comments in them. It detects the three slashes and tries to apply C# XML docs parsing to them and that of course fails. Meanwhile NetBeans can handle them no problem and display parsed docs in pop ups.
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- cbcoutinho 9y agoGet ready for a data dump of 40 year old COBOL code /s But in all seriousness, this is a great step forward in institutional software. Open up software to further progress towards standardizing an industry's software interface.
- gt_ 9y agoI would much prefer a bank using that over, say, Python
- dom0 9y agohttps://github.com/symphonyoss/plexus-interop https://github.com/symphonyoss/plexus-interop Java/JS/C#
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- skissane 9y agoI would love for a few banks to dump all their old COBOL code on to GitHub. Not because it would necessarily be useful for anything, but simply because it would be fascinating to read... There is actually very little open source COBOL code available, of the massive quantities of COBOL code written over the decades the vast, vast majority of it remains closed source. Sadly I think a lot of it is just going to be lost to history... at an old employer of mine, I remember we had a store room full of old 9 track mainframe backup tapes – the mainframe had been retired and we no longer had a 9 track tape drive to read them with – I wonder if they are still there now – ideally they'd be sent to some sort of archive – they couldn't be released now without vetting because they would have contained confidential information (e.g. employee payroll information, customer data), but a century from now when all of us are dead who cares if our confidential info gets released to the public then?
- c-smile 9y ago"Computer code of Deutsche Bank" sounds so German and so cool :)
- orblivion 9y ago"I'm the operator with my pocket calculator"
- bitL 9y ago"...code from its award-winning electronic platform Autobahn"
- pavlov 9y agoThe bank has the distinction of being mentioned in Kraftwerk’s 1983 song Computer World: ”Interpol, Deutsche Bank, FBI, Scotland Yard, Flensburg und das BKA, haben unsere Daten da.”
- jacobush 9y agoThat is very prescient of them! I now hold them in even higher regard.
- icebraining 9y agoPrescient? It was already true back then.
- jacobush 9y agoMaybe the not exactly right word. They had, back then too. Maybe it's just that we are soooo deep down shit creek with no paddle now, that it's easy to forget that you could already tell clear signs of "big data vs the citizen" back in the 1970s if you just looked around you.
- c-smile 9y agoOr Rammstein's "Achtung, computer code of Deutsche Bank!"
- subroutine 9y agoI wonder if the openness of cryptocurrency and blockchain tech prompted this in any way. edit: can someone explain why I'm getting downvoted?
- icahnvalyou 9y agoThat + bloomberg hate + symphony's ridiculously good reception in the markets. Symphony's starting look like it could be finance's heroku/slack.
- jgalt212 9y agoBloomberg hate is really only the management level. At the user level, it's mostly love. Of course, by and large, the user does not directly foot the $20K/year bill.
- icahnvalyou 9y agotruth (and Stockholm syndrome).
- infinii 9y agoBecause the reason is plainly stated in the article if you bothered to read it. Also, OSS existed for decades before the blockchain came along so to question any correlation between this and that would be absurd.
- subroutine 9y agoI did bother to read the 7 paragraphs. My question is basically that - OSS existed for decades; why only now in big finance? That their clients wanted such a trading platform... is that the reason you are saying was plainly stated?
- lucb1e 9y agoGreat move. I really believe in the "free software, free society" idea of the FSF. After this batch, I'm sure there will still be a lot left to open source, but it's definitely a big step! If we're fortunate, others will follow suit. Germany is a great country for stuff like this. They have a relatively high share of Linux users, OpenStreetMap usage, etc. I feel like they're very critical towards their own country and don't take things for granted (not the "we're so proud of our country" idea). As a Dutchman, I like Germany.
- jackewiehose 9y agoI don't understand what exactly this code is about but I have problems imagining the Deutsche Bank as a company that acts "for the greater good". As a german I envy you for your drug laws.
- dom0 9y agoThis seems to tie into bolstering the Symphony platform.
- davb 9y agoIt seems to be about standardising communication between desktop applications using an RPC broker server (Plexus Interop). It’s aimed at traders, who often use multiple desktop applications (for trading, news, comms) in various runtimes (Java, C#, Python, etc). This tool is some at creating a standard platform enabling those other tools to communicate with each other. I guess like a sort of cross-runtime service bus with service discovery. (I don’t work in FS, this is just what I can gather from reading the docs).
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- marenkay 9y agoDB just like every bank in EU actually is legally forced to make some compliance changes for interoperability. Thus releasing this and possibly pushing workload and costs onto other banks from business side makes sense.
- lifeisstillgood 9y agoEven the largest banks are hurting maintaining proprietary software across the compete range of businesses - there is a multiplier effect as one proprietary piece demands another close to it, and eventually devs get sick of seeing the OSS world acclerate Away.
- cutler 9y agoProtobufTransportProtocolSerializationProvider Enterprise OO Garbage is alive and well.
- stephengillie 9y agoHow would we prevent this? Asking for a friend.
- cutler 9y agoJust refuse to play the insane Java/C# Enterprise OO game. Kotlin would be a good alternative but my preference would be Clojure where brevity and simplicity are valued.
- BoorishBears 9y agoOr just don't be redundant in any language. Unless there are multiple types of a "SerializationProvider", the name could be shortened to "ProtobufSerializationProvider" And if there are multiple types of "SerializationProvider" (ie. there's an unrelated "CachingSerializationProvider ") then the name is unfortunately long, but accurate
- smnplk 9y agoI think the main problem is not in the name of that class, the name is just a side effect of a bigger deeper problem.
- BoorishBears 9y agoWhat problem? DI is really useful if you're pragmatic about it, misuse is not really a property of a particular language
- 6ue7nNMEEbHcM 9y agoIt looks like they may have convention to put name of the base class/interface in the type name.
- dogruck 9y agoCan someone please give a few specific examples of what this software does?
- cjbenedikt 9y agoAutobahn is a realtime platform to buy and sell currencies.
- dogruck 9y agoThank you, but I did read that summary in their press release. For example, what features does it have that would let me buy and sell securities?
- unixhero 9y agoWhere is the code?
- forapurpose 9y agoDoes anyone know what license they plan to use? That could make a big difference.
- mindthegab 9y agoApache v2 - see https://github.com/symphonyoss/plexus-interop/blob/master/LICENSE https://github.com/symphonyoss/plexus-interop/blob/master/LI...
- guest 9y agoAren't banks allready shifting over in larger scale to quntum computing? Would also explain the openess from a bank. Though national banks and nation state backed banks are imo often quite a few steps better than the rest - then again at times even though publically supported fks up like Nordea.
- TuringNYC 9y agoI have not seen any evidence that banks are shifting over to quantum computing. As far as I can see, quantum computing itsself is far from useable in any production setting -- it is mostly in early R&D stage.
- adrianN 9y agoIt's not exactly "computing", but you can buy some quantum crypto systems for doing key distribution: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_key_distribution#Commercial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_key_distribution#Comme...
- guest 9y agoI can't recall where i viewed the information about banks using them - it wasn't equivalent to a whitepaper but it wasn't flimsy either - it was dry and explained the networks somewhat. Recall that what formally is happening has a delay to what is actually happening behind the scene. You have formally aknowledged produced quantum computers for sale (that "leaked" as quantum computers officially still would be long off - disregarding this article date) as http://www.vancouversun.com/business/technology/Quantum+computer+developed+Metro+Vancouver+wins+over/8202950/story.html http://www.vancouversun.com/business/technology/Quantum+comp... D-Wave Two. You also have networks in the works and alot more efficient quantum computers (University of Tokyo et al) coming out to the open market.
- subroutine 9y agoI did bother to read the 7 paragraphs. My question is basically that - OSS existed for decades; why only now in big finance? That their clients wanted such a trading platform... is that the reason you are saying was plainly stated?
- aryehof 9y agoWhat a misleading title, instead ... DB is releasing a small program for interop into the public domain to encourage others to use it too.
- hitekker 9y agoOn a side note, I find the design of their website to functional but tasteful. Their promoted research-paper is also more engaging (and less bloviating) than I was expecting: https://www.dbresearch.com/PROD/RPS_EN-PROD/PROD0000000000452422/Can_markets_withstand_the_removal_of_QE%3F.pdf https://www.dbresearch.com/PROD/RPS_EN-PROD/PROD000000000045... >Ironically, the political compulsions imposed by the aging population are one reason for this. For starters, 56 per cent of Germany’s voting population is above 50 years of age. The members of the major political parties are on average 60 years old. This has led to an implicit consensus between the government and the people, to maintain the cosy status quo for as long as possible, hoping the day of reckoning might only affect following generations. A literal endorsement of Keynes’ maxim, “in the long run we are all dead" I'll have to read through all of it before I can tease out its agenda.
- SeriousM 9y agoNow we can seen how to implement a atomic transaction which is bank-safe
- kayoone 9y agoI went to a Deutsche Bank Hackathon last year in Berlin where they announced opening up their apis. https://developer.db.com/ https://developer.db.com/ They touted it as being innovative and open but in the end all Banks are required to open up when PSD2 comes into effect next year. Seeing this release, maybe they have honest intentions for being more open, but it being Deutsche i still have my doubts.
- cm2187 9y agoIsn't PSD2 for retail banking / deposit accounts? This API I believe is an Investment Banking product.
- rjzzleep 9y agoI used to walk around other countries bragging about German online banking, given that we have a standard that has been iterated upon (HBCI/FinTS) over decades and you can pretty use any online banking software with any bank. A few years have passed since then and most germans banks are still the same. Meanwhile you get instant wire transfers in a few countries. When I think Deutsche Bank and innovation, I think of my phone calls with Deutsche Bank about disappearing money and them telling me that I shouldn't be surprised if the online banking doesn't actually reflect my real balance and 3 day same country wire transfers. A friend of mine has a consulting company that claims that theyre trying to change their internal structures though. I think of shitty support and paper faxes because of "security". The latter might actually be a prevalent problem in german society though. I work in Gvt. Healthcare. They've been spending 1 year trying to define an API for activating the new healthcare smartcards. It has 3 API calls, it's not done yet, and it's SOAP only. And then the leadership has been trying to get government support to mandate by law the forced usage of their crappy APIs. Germany is a digital dinosaur, no matter how much these old tycoons come to the bay area with their newly appointed chief of innovations for a week they won't get it, because they never had to compete on anything to get it. User experience is a completely foreign concept to them.
- Quarrelsome 9y agoSOAP in 2017? Yikes. Design by committee?
- ucaetano 9y agoWorth noting this part: > The bank will put over 150,000 lines of code from its award-winning electronic platform Autobahn into the public domain If this is indeed correct, there's no licensing BS, no control of what you can do with it like most free software. This is pure and simple public domain.
- kuschku 9y agoNot exactly. Public Domain doesn't exist under German Law, so they did the next best thing: Apache2.
- mindthegab 9y agoNo licensing shenanigans - as per our bylaws https://symphonyoss.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/FM/pages/1179741/Governance+Documents https://symphonyoss.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/FM/pages/11797... we currently only accept contributions under the Apache license v2.
- d--b 9y agoSorry, if I don't share the general enthusiasm... Making it opensource mostly helps DB and malevolent people. DB can get bug fixes for free, and malevolent people can now make fake versions of Autobahn that MITM every orders that the traders make. There is no benefit whatsoever for clients...
- mindthegab 9y agoI completely disagree, but that's you would expect as the Executive Director of the Foundation (http://symphony.foundation http://symphony.foundation) that is trying to drive these banks in embracing open source and open collaboration as a better way to build technology. I do believe that end users will benefit by these firms not reinventing the wheel and building innovative, more interoperable and ultimately better technology. I, my team and I know I speak on behalf of our Community are committed to this level of transparency. Finally the beauty of open source is that you don't have to trust a PR article, just go look at the code at https://github.com/symphonyoss/plexus-interop https://github.com/symphonyoss/plexus-interop and decide for yourself. And if unsure reach out to the plexus-interop@symphony.foundation mailing list, it's all in the open!
- TimMurnaghan 9y agoOne of their competitors, Dresdner Bank, did something similar in 2001 when the open sourced their messaging middleware code as Openadapter. https://github.com/openadaptor/openadaptor https://github.com/openadaptor/openadaptor It's pretty good and I actually used it at a commodity trader, but this kind of integration is pretty niche and while Openadapter is still around it never caught on in a big way. I expect that this will be similar - hardly anybody else will have the same mix of systems to connect to and it's unlikely to have a very big impact.
- johnny_reilly 9y agoFlashback! I worked for Commerzbank back in the day (which ended up absorbing Dresdner). Anyway, I had to work on plugging various CB systems into the Dresdner openadaptor. I met the guys behind it (they were on the floor below me) Really nice chaps. If memory serves they ended up leaving essentially due to the merger but they were really helpful in the time before they left.
- geocar 9y agoHeh. https://imgur.com/TlyTwXG https://imgur.com/TlyTwXG I love bank "security".
- 9900 9y agoAs someone who works in what I believe is one of the more progressive software development teams here at DB, there's definitely a desire to open source more of the work that happens here. The issues are inherent to any company employing ~100k people, however: bureaucracy, regulation, and general internal conflict. There some higher-ups that seem to understand the benefits of a more progressive approach, so I do think you will see more of this sort of activity, however, it'll take time before this becomes widespread within the company.
- mindthegab 9y agoIt's a massive challenge but one that finally the industry is waking up to. It's not easy but having a massive support from the industry (http://symphony.foundation/#members http://symphony.foundation/#members) definitely tells me we are on the right path. Said that, we need all the help we can get, so we'd love to see such passion consolidate in the Community we are trying to build. We'd love to hear from you in any of our lists https://groups.google.com/a/symphony.foundation/forum/#!overview https://groups.google.com/a/symphony.foundation/forum/#!over... and even better we'd love to see your issues / patches / comments at github.com/symphonyoss.
- mihaifm 9y agoThis is mostly a PR move. I currently work at DB, I can say that they make it look nice from the outside, but when you get here what you find is a large mess. It's a big difference between a bank and a company that actually ships software. Most of the work here is done in interfacing systems together, and moving data from one place to another. There is no focus on quality, just patching things together and making them work. This is no surprise when a lot of work is done by contractors hired for 6-12 months. Software and tools are old , but I guess this is a know fact. There is a lot of duplication, there are usually 3-4 systems that can do the same thing, when a high level executive decides that then need to create a new one from scratch. Sure there are exceptions, there are people who work on trading algorithms, but these are rare occasions. These are some of my impressions after some time spent at DB, sorry if it sounds too negativistic.
- Horusiath 9y agoThis is not only a DB specific, a whole banking industry works like that. Systems that have <10 years are considered new ones. To keep things working, just produce 5x more services created solely to move data from one place to another. No focus on programming discipline or sense of purpose and constant fear to change anything, because that could break things and we have not enough tests or monitoring infrastructure to even detect that. But in finances, IT is not on a focus. After all, we're just a "cost center" ;)
- nurettin 9y agoThis is my exact experience while integrating with ERP systems in at least four global firms. Except I'd change the phrase "not enough tests or monitoring" to "no tests or monitoring except the ones I wrote".
- posterboy 9y agoIt's a fact that you can't ever have enough tests, because, for one, the tests are not tested.
- eru 9y ago
- osullivj 9y agoLooks like Plexus Interop is yet another middleware abstraction layer. Dresdner did something similar 15 years ago when they open sourced Open Adaptor. There's no special source here - no interesting pricing, risk management, quoting, order management or hedging functionality. The source code to Autobahn should be more interesting if it ever gets released since it's DB's single dealer platform across all asset classes. It should include some interesting trading logic.
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- wklm 9y agoWell, I was trying to submit an issue, but got this: ``` We're writing to let you know that the group you tried to contact (plexus-interop) may not exist, or you may not have permission to post messages to the group. A few more details on why you weren't able to post: * You might have spelled or formatted the group name incorrectly. * The owner of the group may have removed this group. * You may need to join the group before receiving permission to post. * This group may not be open to posting. If you have questions related to this or any other Google Group, visit the Help Center at https://support.google.com/a/symphony.foundation/bin/topic.py?topic=25838 https://support.google.com/a/symphony.foundation/bin/topic.p.... Thanks, symphony.foundation admins ```
- mindthegab 9y agoFolks, Thanks for raising the issue - we have fixed the mailing list (google groups) so now posting is allowed even for users that haven't yet joined the list. For completeness: - This is the mailing list archive https://groups.google.com/a/symphony.foundation/forum/#!forum/plexus-interop https://groups.google.com/a/symphony.foundation/forum/#!foru... (fairly new, but we can't wait to see your traffic) - To subscribe to the list just email plexus-interop+unsubscribe@symphony.foundation We will follow up with a much more comprehensive set of technical information, but in the meanwhile all docs are hosted at https://symphonyoss.github.io/plexus-interop/ https://symphonyoss.github.io/plexus-interop/.
- Magical 9y agoThis is their foreign exchange trading platform. It is very high volume.
- mallet 9y agoI can tell you that this is probably in response to the massive law suits banks are dealing with because of how they have cheated using their software. [article](https://www.law360.com/articles/943847 https://www.law360.com/articles/943847)