19 ms·

Sitting down too much is doing more harm to your body than you can imagine

221 points by rahulchowdhury 9y ago

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
jfaucett 9y ago
Other than the click-baity title this article is pretty good. What I like about it is that it makes actionable suggestions as to what you can do to help improve your performance. It also at least makes an effort to provide research to back up some of its claims. I wish more articles and news outlets would do this. If journalist are going to critique something or show that its problematic I really appreciate it when they give me enough data to go explore and discover more on my own and when they also give me something actionable (preferably based on a body of research itself) which I can do to solve the issue / problem.
- Nition 9y ago
  Yeah, some good general advice in there that's actually achievable. Although the suggestion of dropping by a colleague for a potential "wonderful conversation" made me laugh given Hacker News readers' usual opinions on interruptions.
- OJFord 9y ago
  > Other than the click-baity title this article is pretty good. A copy editor (or even autocorrect) wouldn't have gone amiss.
alansammarone 9y ago
Every time I read an article like this, I get a bad feeling and I say to myself "I'll definitely exercise more - I don't wanna be all buggy when I get older due to my lifestyle - I'll do this NOW!". Then a couple of hours later, I'm back coding happily seated. I'm sure this is the case for many of us. I wish our brains could keep this bad, guilty-like feeling that makes us take action around for longer.
- wallace_f 9y ago
  For me, the hardest part was getting past that when getting into shape. Going to the gym when you're out of shape isn't very fun. Who wants to role play the loser? You're surrounded by people who all look better and are stronger than you. And it's not just mental, it's also physically unenjoyable. In my experience, if you can just get over that hump to a point where you start to look good, or get strong, or feel good, it becomes an activity, not a chore. Your body is incredible and it's a shame to not see a glimpse of its potential. This simple concept was very helpful to me, and I hope to others as well.
- snarfy 9y ago
  You have about 5 seconds before your brain shuts up those ideas like "I'll definitely exercise more...". It's an awesome idea, life changing even. 5 seconds later your rational self catches up with the idea and starts to counter with 'but I don't have enough time', 'it's too hard', 'maybe tomorrow', etc. The next time you get the idea to exercise more you need to stop what you are doing right then and there and do something about it. Maybe it's not the best time to start exercising at 3am when you have the idea, but at least put it down in your calendar with an alarm/reminder/something. The point being you need to take action on those ideas as soon as you have them, or they are gone.
  - gaius 9y ago
    you need to stop what you are doing right then and there and do something about it If you're at home, there's no reason not to just do 10 pressups right there and then (and as you get better, 20, 30 and so on). Or dips with your chair if you can't do pressups yet.
    - pizza 9y ago
      "desire is to drive what truth is to knowledge" you need it to be a kind of mediating objective to not lose that pledge. otherwise, the inevitable abandonment comes after exercising a handful of times, if that :P my intuition tells me you'd need a goal that has pushups (or exercise at all) only as a subcomponent along the path towards the attainment of that goal. hopefully it would persist longer than if solely working out were the goal. so that it doesn't feel "empty" or easily abandon-able after doing it a few times.
bigheadpercoli 9y ago
I am using lately 'nearby events happening now' apps to get myself away from the screen on the weekends and meet people for sports and hobbies. It's really liberating.
- jsemrau 9y ago
  Is there one you can recommend ?
  - bigheadpercoli 9y ago
    drop!in (http://idrop.in http://idrop.in) is good (imho)
hacker_9 9y ago
To add to this - we have a cardiovascular system that is kept moving by our heart pumping. We also have a lymph node system, which is moved around by us walking around (no pump). So if you are completely sedentary this can become blocked up and result in all sorts of problems (random lumps, infections etc)
- Noumenon72 9y ago
  I've also heard this theory linking movement to joint health: > Joints get the bulk of their nutrition from range of motion. The vast majority of joints in the body are synovial: two bones surrounded by a leathery capsule filled with fluid. The cartilage surfaces receive very little blood flow. In order to receive nutrition, the joint must “lubricate” itself with the fluid of the joint, absorbing nutrients from the fluid along its surface – via regular, full range of motion. > When joints stop moving through their full range, elements of cartilage do not get this nutrition. The cartilage dries up. And it is replaced with bone. This, by definition is osteoarthritis. Preceding that, is pain. --http://www.irunfar.com/2012/10/is-your-plantar-fasciitis-plantar-fasciitis-and-what-to-do-about-it.html http://www.irunfar.com/2012/10/is-your-plantar-fasciitis-pla...
nickjj 9y ago
I've been using a standing desk now for almost 2 years and stand about 90% of the time. I think it's one of the best decisions I've ever made because it leads to other healthy habits. Typically you don't stand still at a standing desk. Your legs will naturally want to move and stretch and since you're already standing, you can do this without really being disturbed. Also, it sounds funny but walking and even running is a nice "break" from standing. It gives you more energy. I tend to break up my day with 2-3x ~2 mile walks. There's other big wins too like much improved posture (especially if you were like me and sat in crazy positions). If anyone wants to try out a standing desk without investing hundreds of dollars on an adjustable one I wrote a guide on how to build a custom standing desk to fit your desk[0] (without needing a saw): [0]: https://nickjanetakis.com/blog/build-a-home-made-standing-desk-for-50-dollars-in-10-easy-steps https://nickjanetakis.com/blog/build-a-home-made-standing-de...
- hellofunk 9y ago
  Most recent studies on this topic suggest that standing alone is not much (if any) improvement over sitting for long periods; but, you are correct that standing makes it more likely that you will move every few minutes, even seconds, compared to sitting, so that's really where the benefit comes from.
- westoncb 9y ago
  > I tend to break up my day with 2-3x ~2 mile walks. To be clear, you do ~2 mile walks two to three times per day? So you walk 4 - 6 miles per day? It actually sounds kind of appealing to me—I like walking... but it seems like a serious amount of time, and like finding places to walk might be difficult.
  - nickjj 9y ago
    Yep. You can do 2 miles in about 30 minutes. Perfect time to listen to podcasts, audiobooks and clearing your head. I don't see it as a waste of time. Often times I'll step away from a programming problem and get the solution while walking, which in turn saves time in the long run. I just go around my neighborhood, nothing fancy.
mrhappyunhappy 9y ago
I tried taking breaks while working with one of those screen alarms that turns into a relaxation / stretching video but couldn't continue doing it. It seemed to go off so often, even though I set it to a recommended time interval. I got annoyed quickly and got rid of it. I too feel guilt every time I read one of these articles. To make matters worse, my desk quickly converts to standing position. I don't know what it is about this laziness but I wish I could beat it. Why can't I be strong :(
- kartan 9y ago
  The more you sit and the less exercise you do, the less energy do you have to improve. At least make sure that weekends you have hobby that requires to go outside. If you find yourself walking all the weekend is going to be easier to stand at the office. I also have tried playing VR games with "room scaling". It forces you to play standing. The more exercise and time you spend standing, the easier it becomes. But the reverse is also true. If you feel tired all the time, it is hard to start exercising and you need to trick yourself into bootstrapping the habit.
modernerd 9y ago
I bought a speed rope and started skipping for 20 minutes every morning while listening to audiobooks. https://rpmtraining.com https://rpmtraining.com It’s cheaper than a gym, needs little space, elevates my heart rate more than running ever did, and there are tricks to learn to keep it fresh and progressively raise the difficulty (double-unders, cross-overs etc.).
- freeloop2 9y ago
  That's too hard on my knees. I got a kettlebell and go on YouTube everyday to find some exercise videos. There are so many videos I can do a new one each time which prevents me from getting bored.
- dominotw 9y ago
  This looks so much fun. I want one, wish I didn't live in an apartment with neighbors downstairs.
ElectricNoodle 9y ago
https://www.gq.com/story/standing-death-study https://www.gq.com/story/standing-death-study It seems we can't win... I'd say too much of either is a bad thing, best thing to do is have a healthy balance of both then lead an active lifestyle outside of the office!
- a_humean 9y ago
  Seems the study was actually about standing ocupations vs sitting occupations, with nothing about standing desk in traditional sitting occupation workplaces (white collar office settings). https://www.theguardian.com/science/sifting-the-evidence/2017/sep/21/no-a-standing-desk-isnt-as-unhealthy-as-smoking https://www.theguardian.com/science/sifting-the-evidence/201...
- hacker_9 9y ago
  Standing at work was always a fad anyway - and you can win, just do some exercise!
mmsimanga 9y ago
Today is day 2 of my standup desk for my home computing. Not enough time to give a summary but one thing I have noticed already is I am moving around a lot more. After about 30 minutes of standing I have do something else, walk outside, or do a few squats or stretch. Reason I built stand up desk are all the reasons in the article.
- hacker_9 9y ago
  I exercise regularly and have always thought of a standing desk as far too extreme, Especially as programmers as we need to think though problems over several hours. The added stress of standing would just be far too much.
  - mmsimanga 9y ago
    I had to try it to come to a conclusion. I guess you going to have to give it a shot to know. Another reason I decided to try it out is that when I am comfortably seated I can spend hours on HN. Yes it is ironic that I am standing and posting on HN but truth be told in 10 or so minutes I will be tired and forced to take a walk. I am hoping to curb some bad online habits by standing.
    - abledon 9y ago
      Trying alternating 'Tree pose' Standing. It __really__ makes my ankles burn, a type of workout that I can't get out of just standing. https://standsteady.com/blogs/standing-by-day/what-to-wear-standing-desk https://standsteady.com/blogs/standing-by-day/what-to-wear-s...
      - mmsimanga 9y ago
        Thanks for the tip. Will definitely try it out.
drjackyll 9y ago
But sedentary life of scientists brought all the advances in medicine, thanks to which the life expectancy went up. I prefer sedentary lifestyle with modern medicine to active hunting lifestile and life expectancy of 50.
- ehnto 9y ago
  Sedentary behaviour raises your mortality rate, so your life expectancy while living a sedentary lifestyle may be just as short. A balance of movement but not over exerting is likely a good compromise. It's thought that the it is the light, regular physical activity of those on the island of Ikaria that gives them their recently famed longevity.
- arcticfox 9y ago
  That's a weird false dichotomy. Unhealthy lifestyle plus modern medicine vs. healthy lifestyle and no medicine? Why not healthy lifestyle and modern medicine?
cup-of-tea 9y ago
I regularly go to the gym to lift weights and I keep my body fat under control by strict control of eating times (I fast for hours every day). I'm very strong and look good. But I'm constantly battling with finding enough time for everything. I basically want to have all my time to code, but I also want to do other things (I also play guitar and cook, and I sleep at least 8 hours a day). I don't think this feeling will ever go away. I just have to accept that I can only achieve so much with programming.
- eludwig 9y ago
  >>I don't think this feeling will ever go away. Relax! This is called a good "work-life balance." ;) Life is not some sprint. No one is going anywhere. There is no finish line unless you construct it.
- dvcrn 9y ago
  I'm resonating with this a lot. The thing that helped me a lot was starting my day earlier. I am trying to move all my 'mandatory' tasks to the morning and try to set timeboxes for them, so that after work I have enough time to do other things and don't get distracted. For example, I searched for a 24h gym around my place and go every Monday, Wednesday and Friday before/at 6am for 1h (+10 minutes stretching). It's sometimes tough but that's why I leave enough time between workouts and skip the weekend so I can recover or catch up on sleep if needed. Then afterwards I have an hour for chores like cleaning, dishes, etc. I also replaced my train commute with a bicycle for some extra health points (and post-work motivation. Full trains depressed and demotivated me) Same as you, I do IF and try to eat my last meal at ~6pm and don't think about food until next days lunch. Other things that helps me a lot with being more motivated is trying to leave the office while it's still bright outside. I want to leave earlier because I'm happier and at the same time have more time+motivation for other things.
- reallymental 9y ago
  I'm facing the exact same situation, except I cannot care less about food, which frees up some cooking time. How do you manage your social life along with these activities? I find that it gets in the way of things I do, but on the other hand, not keeping in touch with friends (who don't do the same activities as you) just drives them away.
cyberferret 9y ago
I find that routine is important to getting regular exercise and movement. I am one of those programmers who likes getting into a 'flow' state and working for large blocks of time, so my strategy is to try and get a 1 hr walk in the morning when I wake up. Much as people like to check their Inbox first thing to get it out of the way before starting productive work, I find that getting my walk in the morning before I have breakfast and sit down to start work ensures that it happens. If I tried to fit it in late in the day, I know that a long debug session or support email thread with a customer will easily derail it. Organised activity is also good for making me stick to schedules. I took up Kendo about 18 months ago, and the regularly scheduled classes and training sessions are good for forcing me off the computer and go work up a sweat. I especially love the little 30 second meditation we do at the start and end of each class. The purpose of the starting meditation is to put aside all our normal work/life/personal worries and stresses, and focus on the sport, then the end meditation is to bring them all back again.
- sdrothrock 9y ago
  > I took up Kendo about 18 months ago, and the regularly scheduled classes and training sessions are good for forcing me off the computer and go work up a sweat. I especially love the little 30 second meditation we do at the start and end of each class. Mokuso was integral to teaching me to relax and focus; I try to continue meditating even though I haven't done kendo for years, but some days I just want to be sitting in my keikogi in a chilly dojo listening to someone shout "MOKUSOOO~" -- something about that environment was conducive to relaxing.
  - Tharkun 9y ago
    Mokuso, 黙想, "idea of silence", pretty much translates to "meditation".
    - Camillo 9y ago
      Why "idea of silence" and not "silent thinking"?
  - 9y ago
tr1ck5t3r 9y ago
Well Euthanasia isnt legal last time I looked!
EGreg 9y ago
Why not get a standing desk? https://www.runnersworld.com/sweat-science/standing-all-day-is-twice-as-bad-as-sitting-for-your-heart https://www.runnersworld.com/sweat-science/standing-all-day-... And so is lying down in bed :) https://www.scienceabc.com/humans/why-is-it-a-bad-idea-to-stay-in-bed-for-too-long.html https://www.scienceabc.com/humans/why-is-it-a-bad-idea-to-st... Oh, and what about running https://www.active.com/health/articles/why-too-much-running-is-bad-for-your-health https://www.active.com/health/articles/why-too-much-running-... https://www.runnersworld.com/runners-knee https://www.runnersworld.com/runners-knee It seems the best is normal movement and walking, and taking breaks. Too much of anything is bad. But perhaps generalizations like this lead to a lot of sensationalism. Here's another one. Are you better off staying in or heading out for a while every day? Staying in: https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vitamin-d-deficiency-symptoms https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vitamin-d-deficiency-sy... https://www.vitamindwiki.com/Suicide+associated+with+low+vitamin+D https://www.vitamindwiki.com/Suicide+associated+with+low+vit... Going out: http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/sun-uv-and-cancer/how-the-sun-and-uv-cause-cancer http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cance... http://www.youbeauty.com/beauty/sun-and-acne/ http://www.youbeauty.com/beauty/sun-and-acne/ It is like those studies in the past which said wine is good for the heart ... wait it's not good ... wait a small amount is good and too much is bad. http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/heart-disease/in-depth/red-wine/art-20048281 http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/heart-disease/...
- nonbel 9y ago
  This is a known result of using what is called "NHST", null hypothesis significance testing, to come to conclusions. It will automatically generate conflicting results and does nothing to lead to cumulative knowledge. Some discussion of that aspect can be found here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10153165 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10153165 http://psycnet.apa.org/record/1996-04469-001 http://psycnet.apa.org/record/1996-04469-001
cube00 9y ago
When you need to ask a colleague something, walk up to his/her desk instead of dropping a message (you might strike up a wonderful conversation in the process) Awesome so now I have no choice but to get immediately dropped out of my zone to answer your question. Go for your walk but go back to your desk and send me your message so I can add it to my queue of other questions that I'll get to once I've debugged this block.
DigitalSea 9y ago
In our office we started a lunchtime walk. We eat our lunch and whoever wants to participate, we head out for a 30 minute walk. It might not be enough, but it's better than the nothing before.
- rubber_duck 9y ago
  Walking is not time efficient, you're better off doing 10 mins of HIIT than an hour of walking.
  - eugeneionesco 9y ago
    Yes but how many places have the infrastucture to do HIIT? Come on, let's be serious here...
    - erl 9y ago
      You can easily do HIIT with minimal infrastructure. Burpees and jumping squats for example will get your pulse up in no time. It will likely require a shower afterwards though which might pose a problem.
      - pmarreck 9y ago
        ok so to make this happen in an office setting, we'd perhaps need 1) A 60 degree F room to stave off sweating 2) Enough exercise to be healthy but that stops just short of making you sweat 3) (2) is variable based on body weight of course
        rubber_duck 9y ago
        My point is skip the office setting, do 10 mins of workout at home before you shower and save 20 mins of time.
        pmarreck 9y ago
shadowmint 9y ago
> When you need to ask a colleague something, walk up to his/her desk instead of dropping a message 'Did you get that email I sent you?' Ahhhhhh~ No. Please don't. There's plenty of good advice on this article, but be careful that the things that you do for yourself don't negatively impact other people; that's not be healthy, its being thoughtless and selfish.
- aswanson 9y ago
  It never ceases to amaze me how much others think they entitled to your time while working. They'll start conversations when all nonverbal signals show you are trying to get something done. Im at the point where I am going to be forced to be outright rude, which is not easy for me, just to be able to work undisturbed.
  - oDot 9y ago
    Being upfront is not necessarily being rude, and is much easier on all parties involved.
  - laythea 9y ago
    This holds up to a point, but if your role is so demanding that you cannot hold a conversation (presuming a work conversation but also applies to social - up to a point obviously), then your either not very good at your job or your employer sets unrealistic expectations, or your good and the employer is realistic but you just want to get ahead. I've worked with people that are a clamshell. It's not a very nice environment. Nobody in a company works "on an island".
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - noir_lord 9y ago
      None of those, I simply don't like getting dropped out the zone for things that aren't immediately important or can't be done over email. For what it's worth I'm good at my job and my employer doesn't set unrealistic expectations, work time is work time, home time is home time. I don't blur the boundaries, if you want a social chat that's what lunch times are for. I've worked with Germans in the past, they are much more like me (I'm English) in that regard.
ourmandave 9y ago
There is this counter argument. http://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2017/09/27 http://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2017/09/27
- rahulchowdhury 9y ago
  That's a funny one. :-D
raamdev 9y ago
I’ve posted this elsewhere, but it feels relevant here so I’ll share it again. I work remotely 80-90 hours a week using my laptop (this is important: your screen needs to be mobile). Here's how I currently try to keep my body moving: - I don't have a desk or chair. I have a bar table and a stool. This makes a huge difference. I get uncomfortable sitting on the stool after about 30 minutes, so I get off. Then I'll stand at the bar table and work for an hour or two. When I get tired of that, I'll spend a minute or two doing a physical activity (see below). - I try to work from different physical places, e.g., cafes, different places in the house when nobody is home, the steps outside, the floor, the hammock hanging by the lake. I make it a game to come up with new and novel places to work from that don't require a lot of travel time (unless I'm walking—then it's well-spent travel time), anything to change the physical position of my body while working (and hopefully something that gets uncomfortable within an hour so I'm pushed to change again). - I have a sandbag next to the bar table that I'll pick up at random times throughout the day and do squats, deadlifts, bent-over rows, or just carry the 60lb thing up the stairs or out around the yard once. I'll also use it as a weight to hold my feet while I do sit-ups. I have a pull-up bar hanging between two trees outside. - I don't watch TV. In fact, I try to avoid anything that involves the sitting position. If I have to sit, I prefer the floor, or if I'm watching a movie or reading a book, I prefer laying down. If it's something for a few minutes and I can stand, I'll stand. I've been doing this for about a year now and it's the best I've ever felt while working this much. What I'd like to start mixing in are some runs or long walks, but right now it's a choice between those or getting sufficient sleep. I prioritize sleep.
- cm2012 9y ago
  Why work so many hours?
  - raamdev 9y ago
    Because I love what I do.
yaseer 9y ago
I've found the Pomodoro method, coupled with walking and stretching between the breaks, helps immensely. The movement also helps me maintain energy levels during long periods of working, which can lull if I'm sedentary. I even find maintaining 'flow' perfectly attainable (provided that your mind stays on work between the breaks, and you don't check things like e-mails). I see the Pomodoro break more as a physical break from sitting, with the option of taking a mental break from work if I think it's necessary.
bakhy 9y ago
I'd also recommend getting a pull-up bar. Great excercise for keeping the back healthy!
ruleordie 9y ago
> Anyways, it’s not that complex to tackle this. A few changes in your habits should do the trick. This is complete garbage. The fact is, there is nothing you do to do 100% reverse the effects of sitting all day. You can maybe improve things by 20% or something like that. Progressive people keep hoping that you can use some kind of technology to change things but you can't. Standing desks don't do anything, standing up every hour doesn't do anything. There is nothing you can do. We are designed a certain way and if we don't live that way our health suffers greatly. The only solution is to go back to living that way no matter how hard you try to believe anything else.
- yaseer 9y ago
  > The only solution is to go back to living that way no matter how hard you try to believe anything else. Nobody can confidently assert this now; you are stating your belief, not a fact. We would need to do longitudinal studies on all the alternatives (standing desks, periodic walking) to be able to build up a picture. To my knowledge, that has not yet been done. It may take decades to build up a picture. Until then, people can choose options based on existing theories. In time, those theories will either be validated or refuted, but they have not yet been.
  - ruleordie 9y ago
    > Nobody can confidently assert this now; you are stating your belief, not a fact. What does confidently asserting something have to do with a lack of scientific proof? Personal experience allows people to confidently assert things. > We would need to do longitudinal studies on all the alternatives (standing desks, periodic walking) to be able to build up a picture. To my knowledge, that has not yet been done. It may take decades to build up a picture. You can build up a picture on the previous decades where everything has failed. Technology has failed. Standing desks have failed. Current "workstations" were the solution to previous problems, and they have failed. Everything has failed. We are at a turning point where non-science religion people have realised that we can't keep going down the same path while technological messiahs keep claiming the future will be great. We can look back at the decline in human health. Why do we need tooth paste? It isn't a revolutionary new advance, it is a way to make our teeth slightly better but never better than before farming and industrialisation.
klatuveranictu 9y ago
I love how the writer causally mentions they drive a BMW and then proceeds to confuse the words relied and reliant.
mariushn 9y ago
Some more practical advice at https://www.juvmed.com/healthy-work-environment https://www.juvmed.com/healthy-work-environment
known 9y ago
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/00103102/ http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/00103102/ helps me to reducing back pain
eighthnate 9y ago
Just curious. Wouldn't evolution eventually take care of this? For most people, sitting down too much would be harmful. But due to mutations/genetic variance, there would be people who are relatively unaffected by prolonged sedentary life. Over time, wouldn't their genetics take over?
- Renevith 9y ago
  It depends on the nature of the harm. If sedentary life reduced the typical lifespan from 70 to 50 (which would be dramatic) but didn't significantly affect your health during your 20s and 30s, it would have little to no effect on reproduction and thus would not be genetically selected.
netsec_burn 9y ago
Stopped reading on the first graph. "Relative Death Risk" is presented as numbers without units. Everyone knows exercise is beneficial, this article shouldn't introduce you to anything new.
- resoluteteeth 9y ago
  Isn't relative risk unitless?
johndoe489 9y ago
Meh. I've been sitting at a computer for the past twenty years or so let's be honest. Yet in just a few months I feel my posture improving since I started psychotherapy and somatic experiencing therapy for trauma. Along with that I go to yoga once or twice a week. It's importnat to note here because I see the cogs spinning already... I actually did yoga years ago and did not notice the same effects. Therapy has been key to the changes I've observed in my posture. My conclusion is a lot of bodily tensions are connected with unresolved emotional charges. This is related to the nervous system at some level. My point is that posture, and general routine is symptomatic of your general emotional wellbeing. As with all things in life, moderation is the key. Just doing a 1h30 yoga class once a week will probably offset much of the problems mentioned in the article. I mean, I've sat at a computer (both for passion and work) for the past twenty years and have NEVER been fat. In fact I was underweight due to anxiety. I put on some weight in the gym in my early thirties which 70% have stayed without doing any regular exercise (which further confirms a health issue symptomatic of emotional / nervous system troubles affecting appetite). I suspect that improving posture and making an effort to keep a good posture goes a long way also to offset the problems of sitting. Don't get me wrong.. I can see in yoga class that sitting a lot has made muscles between inner thigh and pelvis very tight, as well as all the front making it diffuclt to stretch in various postures. The problem here is assuming that N hours spent sitting equal N equivalent "damage". But that's not how our body works. It may be that you only need a good gym or yoga session just once a week to offset much of the problem. Not that it "undoes" the damage; but rather seeps into the rest of the week with more tonus in posture, and more postural awareness. TLDR: context. Nobody gets fat because of sitting. If weight is really an issue I would suggest to seek therapy or if you feel that is not needed, try yoga or massage. Anything that takes you out of the left hemisphere's imbalance (cf. "The Divided Brain" by Iaian McGilchrist), and nurture more being in direct contact with the body, sensations, breathing.. as well as being more connected with others outside of intellectual activities. Surprisingly a lot of people think that "socializing" means talking. No, to be truly with others around you, is to be able to be there instead of taking refuge in the mind. That means to be at home in your body and how it feels. It's a journey.. it doesn't need to be taken in a couple days ;)
- chrismealy 9y ago
ztjio 9y ago
A lot of people in here talking about how they started doing some activity once 2-3 times a week. Wow. Good for you, that can have some nice benefits. It has nothing to do with the stated concern based on the cited research whatsoever at all. The issues raised here refer to base level physical activity and its influence on things like triglyceride and cholesterol behaviors. And the repeating pattern is that even small activities, like moving around to get a drink, or just standing, literally doing nothing else, raise you into the threshold where your body is "normal" in how it deals with these things. Sitting, however, seems to be an outlier, allowing a degradation of these processes. Well guess what? Exercising once a day even won't change that, as the response time is quick. SO this isn't about you being a bike commuter, a rock climber, or a swimmer. It's about sitting specifically. It's about mounting evidence that our bodies evolved to expect constant muscular activity even at low levels and the near zero that happens during sitting is an outlier. You know, sitting is fairly unusual. In many areas of the world, both ancient and modern, people don't really sit. They squat, or stand, or shuffle around, but full on sitting is uncommon for a lot of people. I betcha the ol' asian/slavic squat activates enough muscles to not count as sitting. In one of the papers they even concede that heavy fidgeting might be enough to breach the threshold. So really what we're talking about is getting out of your chair, moving around, all the time if possible. Yeah that's hard for a programmer. Plus you can't ignore even very current research showing that standing itself, is harmful when doing it too much (for totally unrelated reasons.) So standing desks are a bad plan too. You know, I can't sit that long. I am not too worried about this for me. I shift around too much. Stand and wander in thought, get drinks, go to the bathroom, slide off my chair and kneel at the desk. Grab the tablet and flop around all over the house (I WFH 100%.) I go crazy staying at the desk constantly, for work anyway. Let's not talk about leisure time :) But upon reviewing a number of these studies, this is apparently exactly what's needed. Standing 1 minute every hour isn't a enough, no. But it's the right direction. The problem mainly being that sitting in a chair requires little to no physical effort at all whatsoever. That's the issue. Exercising 2, 3, 5 days a week, 1-2-3 hours? Doesn't matter. Don't confuse the two issues. That said, I bet those goofy desk bicycling things you put by your chair would do the trick, assuming they actually require some level of effort.
dominotw 9y ago
>When we tend to rest too much, like for example sitting continuously for hours What about walking around for 5 mins after every pomodoro. Is it still considered "too much sitting" ?
- rahulchowdhury 9y ago
  That should work just fine. Hours of inactivity will harm you. Frequent breaks, help.
feral 9y ago
I've seen a lot of articles about sitting but always have some questions: - I work with computers so sitting or standing a large portion of time is inevitable. - Is the real problem sitting/standing, or being unfit? If I don't get fat and if I keep fit, will I be ok? Or will sitting still harm me? - If the claim is that sitting still harms me, how robust is the science here? Do they control for the above? If sitting, as opposed to poor fitness is the problem, does regular movement help? or are we just doomed to this if we use computers?
- nazka 9y ago
  With all the articles and papers I read, the problem is that you never have to active your body and legs' muscles, even just slightly. Sometimes even your arms' muscles. And this kills us. The solution to all the problems this create for your body is to use your muscles, and even just a little bit is enough. - If you are usually standing: you don't have to be standing up for hours, just a few hours are enough. - If you are usually sitting: a yoga ball is great. You don't have to move all around, keeping your balance on the ball will be good enough. - And every hour you can take a quick break, or talk to someone so you will move out of your computer and use your muscles.
- Nition 9y ago
  And there are even more categories really. - Overweight, unfit, and sitting/standing for long periods. - Unfit and sitting/standing for long periods but not overweight. - Sitting/standing for long periods but not overweight or unfit. If obesity was the only health-related issue you could just eat less. If Obesity and unfitness were the only issues you could just get some exercise outside of work hours. And if all three are an issue you'd want to keep active as much as possible during work (although not too much... because physical labour jobs hurt people's health too).
guzik 9y ago
Well, I think people are aware of that as we have decent client base just for those who want to track their inactivity time (we've developed a chest strap that tracks lying on bed + sitting).
Fnoord 9y ago
"From making you fat to squeezing your bones, living a sedentary lifestyle has a plethora of negative benefits to offer. Just to give you a clear indication of how much this new age lifestyle impacts your overall health, here’s a graph which shows how likely are you to die based on your fitness level." With all due respect, where is the source? The problem is that it is very difficult to prove this scientifically. It is plausible that people who exercise more do other things which increase their health, such as smoke less or not at all, drink less or not at all, eat more healthy, are more content in life, are more rich or more educated, etc.
skinnymuch 9y ago
Many people here seem to be talking about how they have improved their commute or go to the gym a couple times a week. The article isn't about exercising once or twice a day though. It's about you sitting around too much during the day. Not regularly being even minorly active, no? Perhaps I'm mistaken but it seems like the people talking about their once or twice a day exercise arent on the same page as the article.
- gggdvnkhmbgjvbn 9y ago
  You are right and they are wrong. Sitting for extended periods is correlated with heart disease and other problems regardless of fitness. I've talked with multiple physical therapists about it and they've been very clear about that distinction. Other commenters here are missing the point.
  - skinnymuch 9y ago
    Hah, cool. Nice to know you've talked to a variety of people. I myself don't do enough of either so I'm not helping myself enough yet.
Clubber 9y ago
I'm having a hard time distinguishing whether this is serious, or BS like herbal supplements. People have been sitting at desk jobs for over 100 years now and those people at an old age are living longer than anyone in history based on life expectancy.
- stinos 9y ago
  People have been sitting at desk jobs for over 100 years now and those people at an old age are living longer than anyone in history based on life expectancy. Isn't this one of those standard logic fallacies? I mean, A is true, B is true, but that does not mean B is true because A is true? There might be plenty of other factors affecting B. The advance in medical science for one. At least I always thought that alone was the most influencial factor on better life expectancy. Probably more than enough to even undo the effect of certain lifestyle habits making things worse. But yes, the article pretty much fails to provide exact numbers or even estimates on how bad a sedentary lifestyle really is.
- dandermotj 9y ago
  And obesity levels are higher than ever too. Dismissing this article's message because we are living longer is missing the point. We are living longer despite our poor physical health.
  - ianai 9y ago
    For sure, there’s more than one reason for the obesity problem.
  - Clubber 9y ago
    To misdiagnose the problem is worse than not diagnosing the problem at all. Remember when our collective consciousness believed that eating fat was what made you fat? All the food manufacturers starting advertising 0 fat but loaded the food with calories and sugar. This went on for about 15 years. Instead of assessing the problem as "sitting," maybe we should look at what scientific data says. I know food manufacturers put a hell of a lot of sugar in foods, even foods you wouldn't expect, like spaghetti sauce. They use it as a preservative, so it's in damn near everything. http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/z8849j6 http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/z8849j6 I know watching food commercials subconsciously compels people to eat, even after the restaurants are closed. Children consume 45% more food when exposed to food commercials. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2743554/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2743554/ I know certain foods, sugar in particular, have addictive properties similar to cocaine. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23719144 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23719144 Sitting may very well be a factor, but this article shows no links to any studies. Until I see some data, I'll consider it BS and so should you.
JoshMnem 9y ago
This program is useful for remembering to stand up regularly: http://www.workrave.org/ http://www.workrave.org/ I get up and do stretches and exercises every time it tells me to take a break. I set it for every 11 minutes, but it seems like the breaks are further apart than that. There were noticeable improvements within a week.
- rahulchowdhury 9y ago
  Thanks for the tip. :-)
PascLeRasc 9y ago
Is that first graph a parody? How am I supposed to compare two subjective assessments? They should have something like average lifespan instead of "death risk" and time spent exercising per week instead of "least-most fitness level".
nlh 9y ago
Side note: the entire site (http://elth.co http://elth.co) appears to be a single-person operation (a side project even — “I am currently put up in the lovely city of Bangalore in India, working for a startup as an Android Engineer.”) Kudos to the creator (OP). Looks to be a very well-done (if click-baity, but hey, that’s how you....well....kind of...get clicks these days) project, and it comes across very much like many of the larger content creators. Care to share some background on the project? Looks like you launched pretty recently. Goals? Am I correct in my assumptions here?
- Antrikshy 9y ago
  That makes it even more impressive. My first thought when I saw the article was "this is a well designed website". I love the typography!
  - rahulchowdhury 9y ago
    Glad to know that you liked the design. I've been working on this for some time now. I'll keep polishing it.
  - ValentineC 9y ago
    I like the design and typography too! A quick look at the source suggests that this might be the WordPress theme that the site is based on: https://themeforest.net/item/times-extraordinary-newspaper-magazine-theme/16993958 https://themeforest.net/item/times-extraordinary-newspaper-m...
- rahulchowdhury 9y ago
  Hi there, First of all, thanks for going through the mission statement and appreciating what I'm doing with this project. Having worked in a startup for over 2 years now, there's one thing that I have noticed. Most people like their butts glued to their chair and keeping activity to a minimum. I mean like for traveling even 1KM they tend to get a cab. I tried getting some guys to the gym with me or to eat healthy. Some tried. Some didn't. Most of them didn't stick to their healthy habits for long. What I was doing was cheerleading them to health. That's not the push they required. They needed to know what's wrong with their current habits. Why they should be improving their habits. How to do it. That is when this project was born. I wanted to hand out claims that are backed by science in a lucid manner. Also, what I think most blogs do is just say stuff and end the article. I want my readers to take away actionable tips after completing the article. They should be knowing what to do right after reading each article. That's my main aim with this project. Educate, inspire, and influence people towards a better life. To help them decide what's good for them. I launched the site yesterday. Planning to do 1-2 solid articles each week. Thanks again for your kind words. I'm more thrilled to work on this project after reading this comment. Made my day. Watch out for more articles on the blog. Cheers! Rahul

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

Other than the click-baity title this article is pretty good. What I like about it is that it makes actionable suggestions as to what you can do to help improve your performance. It also at least makes an effort to provide research to back up some of its claims. I wish more articles and news outlets would do this. If journalist are going to critique something or show that its problematic I really appreciate it when they give me enough data to go explore and discover more on my own and when they also give me something actionable (preferably based on a body of research itself) which I can do to solve the issue / problem.

Nition 9y ago
Yeah, some good general advice in there that's actually achievable. Although the suggestion of dropping by a colleague for a potential "wonderful conversation" made me laugh given Hacker News readers' usual opinions on interruptions.
OJFord 9y ago
> Other than the click-baity title this article is pretty good. A copy editor (or even autocorrect) wouldn't have gone amiss.

alansammarone 9y ago

Every time I read an article like this, I get a bad feeling and I say to myself "I'll definitely exercise more - I don't wanna be all buggy when I get older due to my lifestyle - I'll do this NOW!". Then a couple of hours later, I'm back coding happily seated. I'm sure this is the case for many of us. I wish our brains could keep this bad, guilty-like feeling that makes us take action around for longer.

wallace_f 9y ago
For me, the hardest part was getting past that when getting into shape. Going to the gym when you're out of shape isn't very fun. Who wants to role play the loser? You're surrounded by people who all look better and are stronger than you. And it's not just mental, it's also physically unenjoyable. In my experience, if you can just get over that hump to a point where you start to look good, or get strong, or feel good, it becomes an activity, not a chore. Your body is incredible and it's a shame to not see a glimpse of its potential. This simple concept was very helpful to me, and I hope to others as well.
snarfy 9y ago
You have about 5 seconds before your brain shuts up those ideas like "I'll definitely exercise more...". It's an awesome idea, life changing even. 5 seconds later your rational self catches up with the idea and starts to counter with 'but I don't have enough time', 'it's too hard', 'maybe tomorrow', etc. The next time you get the idea to exercise more you need to stop what you are doing right then and there and do something about it. Maybe it's not the best time to start exercising at 3am when you have the idea, but at least put it down in your calendar with an alarm/reminder/something. The point being you need to take action on those ideas as soon as you have them, or they are gone.
- gaius 9y ago
  you need to stop what you are doing right then and there and do something about it If you're at home, there's no reason not to just do 10 pressups right there and then (and as you get better, 20, 30 and so on). Or dips with your chair if you can't do pressups yet.
  - pizza 9y ago
    "desire is to drive what truth is to knowledge" you need it to be a kind of mediating objective to not lose that pledge. otherwise, the inevitable abandonment comes after exercising a handful of times, if that :P my intuition tells me you'd need a goal that has pushups (or exercise at all) only as a subcomponent along the path towards the attainment of that goal. hopefully it would persist longer than if solely working out were the goal. so that it doesn't feel "empty" or easily abandon-able after doing it a few times.

bigheadpercoli 9y ago

I am using lately 'nearby events happening now' apps to get myself away from the screen on the weekends and meet people for sports and hobbies. It's really liberating.

jsemrau 9y ago
Is there one you can recommend ?
- bigheadpercoli 9y ago
  drop!in (http://idrop.in http://idrop.in) is good (imho)

hacker_9 9y ago

To add to this - we have a cardiovascular system that is kept moving by our heart pumping. We also have a lymph node system, which is moved around by us walking around (no pump). So if you are completely sedentary this can become blocked up and result in all sorts of problems (random lumps, infections etc)

Noumenon72 9y ago
I've also heard this theory linking movement to joint health: > Joints get the bulk of their nutrition from range of motion. The vast majority of joints in the body are synovial: two bones surrounded by a leathery capsule filled with fluid. The cartilage surfaces receive very little blood flow. In order to receive nutrition, the joint must “lubricate” itself with the fluid of the joint, absorbing nutrients from the fluid along its surface – via regular, full range of motion. > When joints stop moving through their full range, elements of cartilage do not get this nutrition. The cartilage dries up. And it is replaced with bone. This, by definition is osteoarthritis. Preceding that, is pain. --http://www.irunfar.com/2012/10/is-your-plantar-fasciitis-plantar-fasciitis-and-what-to-do-about-it.html http://www.irunfar.com/2012/10/is-your-plantar-fasciitis-pla...

nickjj 9y ago

I've been using a standing desk now for almost 2 years and stand about 90% of the time. I think it's one of the best decisions I've ever made because it leads to other healthy habits. Typically you don't stand still at a standing desk. Your legs will naturally want to move and stretch and since you're already standing, you can do this without really being disturbed. Also, it sounds funny but walking and even running is a nice "break" from standing. It gives you more energy. I tend to break up my day with 2-3x ~2 mile walks. There's other big wins too like much improved posture (especially if you were like me and sat in crazy positions). If anyone wants to try out a standing desk without investing hundreds of dollars on an adjustable one I wrote a guide on how to build a custom standing desk to fit your desk[0] (without needing a saw): [0]: https://nickjanetakis.com/blog/build-a-home-made-standing-desk-for-50-dollars-in-10-easy-steps https://nickjanetakis.com/blog/build-a-home-made-standing-de...

hellofunk 9y ago
Most recent studies on this topic suggest that standing alone is not much (if any) improvement over sitting for long periods; but, you are correct that standing makes it more likely that you will move every few minutes, even seconds, compared to sitting, so that's really where the benefit comes from.
westoncb 9y ago
> I tend to break up my day with 2-3x ~2 mile walks. To be clear, you do ~2 mile walks two to three times per day? So you walk 4 - 6 miles per day? It actually sounds kind of appealing to me—I like walking... but it seems like a serious amount of time, and like finding places to walk might be difficult.
- nickjj 9y ago
  Yep. You can do 2 miles in about 30 minutes. Perfect time to listen to podcasts, audiobooks and clearing your head. I don't see it as a waste of time. Often times I'll step away from a programming problem and get the solution while walking, which in turn saves time in the long run. I just go around my neighborhood, nothing fancy.

mrhappyunhappy 9y ago

I tried taking breaks while working with one of those screen alarms that turns into a relaxation / stretching video but couldn't continue doing it. It seemed to go off so often, even though I set it to a recommended time interval. I got annoyed quickly and got rid of it. I too feel guilt every time I read one of these articles. To make matters worse, my desk quickly converts to standing position. I don't know what it is about this laziness but I wish I could beat it. Why can't I be strong :(

kartan 9y ago
The more you sit and the less exercise you do, the less energy do you have to improve. At least make sure that weekends you have hobby that requires to go outside. If you find yourself walking all the weekend is going to be easier to stand at the office. I also have tried playing VR games with "room scaling". It forces you to play standing. The more exercise and time you spend standing, the easier it becomes. But the reverse is also true. If you feel tired all the time, it is hard to start exercising and you need to trick yourself into bootstrapping the habit.

modernerd 9y ago

I bought a speed rope and started skipping for 20 minutes every morning while listening to audiobooks. https://rpmtraining.com https://rpmtraining.com It’s cheaper than a gym, needs little space, elevates my heart rate more than running ever did, and there are tricks to learn to keep it fresh and progressively raise the difficulty (double-unders, cross-overs etc.).

freeloop2 9y ago
That's too hard on my knees. I got a kettlebell and go on YouTube everyday to find some exercise videos. There are so many videos I can do a new one each time which prevents me from getting bored.
dominotw 9y ago
This looks so much fun. I want one, wish I didn't live in an apartment with neighbors downstairs.

ElectricNoodle 9y ago

https://www.gq.com/story/standing-death-study https://www.gq.com/story/standing-death-study It seems we can't win... I'd say too much of either is a bad thing, best thing to do is have a healthy balance of both then lead an active lifestyle outside of the office!

a_humean 9y ago
Seems the study was actually about standing ocupations vs sitting occupations, with nothing about standing desk in traditional sitting occupation workplaces (white collar office settings). https://www.theguardian.com/science/sifting-the-evidence/2017/sep/21/no-a-standing-desk-isnt-as-unhealthy-as-smoking https://www.theguardian.com/science/sifting-the-evidence/201...
hacker_9 9y ago
Standing at work was always a fad anyway - and you can win, just do some exercise!

mmsimanga 9y ago

Today is day 2 of my standup desk for my home computing. Not enough time to give a summary but one thing I have noticed already is I am moving around a lot more. After about 30 minutes of standing I have do something else, walk outside, or do a few squats or stretch. Reason I built stand up desk are all the reasons in the article.

hacker_9 9y ago
I exercise regularly and have always thought of a standing desk as far too extreme, Especially as programmers as we need to think though problems over several hours. The added stress of standing would just be far too much.
- mmsimanga 9y ago
  I had to try it to come to a conclusion. I guess you going to have to give it a shot to know. Another reason I decided to try it out is that when I am comfortably seated I can spend hours on HN. Yes it is ironic that I am standing and posting on HN but truth be told in 10 or so minutes I will be tired and forced to take a walk. I am hoping to curb some bad online habits by standing.
  - abledon 9y ago
    Trying alternating 'Tree pose' Standing. It __really__ makes my ankles burn, a type of workout that I can't get out of just standing. https://standsteady.com/blogs/standing-by-day/what-to-wear-standing-desk https://standsteady.com/blogs/standing-by-day/what-to-wear-s...
    - mmsimanga 9y ago
      Thanks for the tip. Will definitely try it out.

drjackyll 9y ago

But sedentary life of scientists brought all the advances in medicine, thanks to which the life expectancy went up. I prefer sedentary lifestyle with modern medicine to active hunting lifestile and life expectancy of 50.

ehnto 9y ago
Sedentary behaviour raises your mortality rate, so your life expectancy while living a sedentary lifestyle may be just as short. A balance of movement but not over exerting is likely a good compromise. It's thought that the it is the light, regular physical activity of those on the island of Ikaria that gives them their recently famed longevity.
arcticfox 9y ago
That's a weird false dichotomy. Unhealthy lifestyle plus modern medicine vs. healthy lifestyle and no medicine? Why not healthy lifestyle and modern medicine?

cup-of-tea 9y ago

I regularly go to the gym to lift weights and I keep my body fat under control by strict control of eating times (I fast for hours every day). I'm very strong and look good. But I'm constantly battling with finding enough time for everything. I basically want to have all my time to code, but I also want to do other things (I also play guitar and cook, and I sleep at least 8 hours a day). I don't think this feeling will ever go away. I just have to accept that I can only achieve so much with programming.

eludwig 9y ago
>>I don't think this feeling will ever go away. Relax! This is called a good "work-life balance." ;) Life is not some sprint. No one is going anywhere. There is no finish line unless you construct it.
dvcrn 9y ago
I'm resonating with this a lot. The thing that helped me a lot was starting my day earlier. I am trying to move all my 'mandatory' tasks to the morning and try to set timeboxes for them, so that after work I have enough time to do other things and don't get distracted. For example, I searched for a 24h gym around my place and go every Monday, Wednesday and Friday before/at 6am for 1h (+10 minutes stretching). It's sometimes tough but that's why I leave enough time between workouts and skip the weekend so I can recover or catch up on sleep if needed. Then afterwards I have an hour for chores like cleaning, dishes, etc. I also replaced my train commute with a bicycle for some extra health points (and post-work motivation. Full trains depressed and demotivated me) Same as you, I do IF and try to eat my last meal at ~6pm and don't think about food until next days lunch. Other things that helps me a lot with being more motivated is trying to leave the office while it's still bright outside. I want to leave earlier because I'm happier and at the same time have more time+motivation for other things.
reallymental 9y ago
I'm facing the exact same situation, except I cannot care less about food, which frees up some cooking time. How do you manage your social life along with these activities? I find that it gets in the way of things I do, but on the other hand, not keeping in touch with friends (who don't do the same activities as you) just drives them away.

cyberferret 9y ago

I find that routine is important to getting regular exercise and movement. I am one of those programmers who likes getting into a 'flow' state and working for large blocks of time, so my strategy is to try and get a 1 hr walk in the morning when I wake up. Much as people like to check their Inbox first thing to get it out of the way before starting productive work, I find that getting my walk in the morning before I have breakfast and sit down to start work ensures that it happens. If I tried to fit it in late in the day, I know that a long debug session or support email thread with a customer will easily derail it. Organised activity is also good for making me stick to schedules. I took up Kendo about 18 months ago, and the regularly scheduled classes and training sessions are good for forcing me off the computer and go work up a sweat. I especially love the little 30 second meditation we do at the start and end of each class. The purpose of the starting meditation is to put aside all our normal work/life/personal worries and stresses, and focus on the sport, then the end meditation is to bring them all back again.

sdrothrock 9y ago
> I took up Kendo about 18 months ago, and the regularly scheduled classes and training sessions are good for forcing me off the computer and go work up a sweat. I especially love the little 30 second meditation we do at the start and end of each class. Mokuso was integral to teaching me to relax and focus; I try to continue meditating even though I haven't done kendo for years, but some days I just want to be sitting in my keikogi in a chilly dojo listening to someone shout "MOKUSOOO~" -- something about that environment was conducive to relaxing.
- Tharkun 9y ago
  Mokuso, 黙想, "idea of silence", pretty much translates to "meditation".
  - Camillo 9y ago
    Why "idea of silence" and not "silent thinking"?
- 9y ago

tr1ck5t3r 9y ago

Well Euthanasia isnt legal last time I looked!

EGreg 9y ago

Why not get a standing desk? https://www.runnersworld.com/sweat-science/standing-all-day-is-twice-as-bad-as-sitting-for-your-heart https://www.runnersworld.com/sweat-science/standing-all-day-... And so is lying down in bed :) https://www.scienceabc.com/humans/why-is-it-a-bad-idea-to-stay-in-bed-for-too-long.html https://www.scienceabc.com/humans/why-is-it-a-bad-idea-to-st... Oh, and what about running https://www.active.com/health/articles/why-too-much-running-is-bad-for-your-health https://www.active.com/health/articles/why-too-much-running-... https://www.runnersworld.com/runners-knee https://www.runnersworld.com/runners-knee It seems the best is normal movement and walking, and taking breaks. Too much of anything is bad. But perhaps generalizations like this lead to a lot of sensationalism. Here's another one. Are you better off staying in or heading out for a while every day? Staying in: https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vitamin-d-deficiency-symptoms https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vitamin-d-deficiency-sy... https://www.vitamindwiki.com/Suicide+associated+with+low+vitamin+D https://www.vitamindwiki.com/Suicide+associated+with+low+vit... Going out: http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/sun-uv-and-cancer/how-the-sun-and-uv-cause-cancer http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cance... http://www.youbeauty.com/beauty/sun-and-acne/ http://www.youbeauty.com/beauty/sun-and-acne/ It is like those studies in the past which said wine is good for the heart ... wait it's not good ... wait a small amount is good and too much is bad. http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/heart-disease/in-depth/red-wine/art-20048281 http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/heart-disease/...

nonbel 9y ago
This is a known result of using what is called "NHST", null hypothesis significance testing, to come to conclusions. It will automatically generate conflicting results and does nothing to lead to cumulative knowledge. Some discussion of that aspect can be found here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10153165 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10153165 http://psycnet.apa.org/record/1996-04469-001 http://psycnet.apa.org/record/1996-04469-001

cube00 9y ago

When you need to ask a colleague something, walk up to his/her desk instead of dropping a message (you might strike up a wonderful conversation in the process) Awesome so now I have no choice but to get immediately dropped out of my zone to answer your question. Go for your walk but go back to your desk and send me your message so I can add it to my queue of other questions that I'll get to once I've debugged this block.

DigitalSea 9y ago

In our office we started a lunchtime walk. We eat our lunch and whoever wants to participate, we head out for a 30 minute walk. It might not be enough, but it's better than the nothing before.

rubber_duck 9y ago
Walking is not time efficient, you're better off doing 10 mins of HIIT than an hour of walking.
- eugeneionesco 9y ago
  Yes but how many places have the infrastucture to do HIIT? Come on, let's be serious here...
  - erl 9y ago
    You can easily do HIIT with minimal infrastructure. Burpees and jumping squats for example will get your pulse up in no time. It will likely require a shower afterwards though which might pose a problem.
    - pmarreck 9y ago
      ok so to make this happen in an office setting, we'd perhaps need 1) A 60 degree F room to stave off sweating 2) Enough exercise to be healthy but that stops just short of making you sweat 3) (2) is variable based on body weight of course
      - rubber_duck 9y ago
        My point is skip the office setting, do 10 mins of workout at home before you shower and save 20 mins of time.
        pmarreck 9y ago

shadowmint 9y ago

> When you need to ask a colleague something, walk up to his/her desk instead of dropping a message 'Did you get that email I sent you?' Ahhhhhh~ No. Please don't. There's plenty of good advice on this article, but be careful that the things that you do for yourself don't negatively impact other people; that's not be healthy, its being thoughtless and selfish.

aswanson 9y ago
It never ceases to amaze me how much others think they entitled to your time while working. They'll start conversations when all nonverbal signals show you are trying to get something done. Im at the point where I am going to be forced to be outright rude, which is not easy for me, just to be able to work undisturbed.
- oDot 9y ago
  Being upfront is not necessarily being rude, and is much easier on all parties involved.
- laythea 9y ago
  This holds up to a point, but if your role is so demanding that you cannot hold a conversation (presuming a work conversation but also applies to social - up to a point obviously), then your either not very good at your job or your employer sets unrealistic expectations, or your good and the employer is realistic but you just want to get ahead. I've worked with people that are a clamshell. It's not a very nice environment. Nobody in a company works "on an island".
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - noir_lord 9y ago
    None of those, I simply don't like getting dropped out the zone for things that aren't immediately important or can't be done over email. For what it's worth I'm good at my job and my employer doesn't set unrealistic expectations, work time is work time, home time is home time. I don't blur the boundaries, if you want a social chat that's what lunch times are for. I've worked with Germans in the past, they are much more like me (I'm English) in that regard.

ourmandave 9y ago

There is this counter argument. http://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2017/09/27 http://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2017/09/27

rahulchowdhury 9y ago
That's a funny one. :-D

raamdev 9y ago

I’ve posted this elsewhere, but it feels relevant here so I’ll share it again. I work remotely 80-90 hours a week using my laptop (this is important: your screen needs to be mobile). Here's how I currently try to keep my body moving: - I don't have a desk or chair. I have a bar table and a stool. This makes a huge difference. I get uncomfortable sitting on the stool after about 30 minutes, so I get off. Then I'll stand at the bar table and work for an hour or two. When I get tired of that, I'll spend a minute or two doing a physical activity (see below). - I try to work from different physical places, e.g., cafes, different places in the house when nobody is home, the steps outside, the floor, the hammock hanging by the lake. I make it a game to come up with new and novel places to work from that don't require a lot of travel time (unless I'm walking—then it's well-spent travel time), anything to change the physical position of my body while working (and hopefully something that gets uncomfortable within an hour so I'm pushed to change again). - I have a sandbag next to the bar table that I'll pick up at random times throughout the day and do squats, deadlifts, bent-over rows, or just carry the 60lb thing up the stairs or out around the yard once. I'll also use it as a weight to hold my feet while I do sit-ups. I have a pull-up bar hanging between two trees outside. - I don't watch TV. In fact, I try to avoid anything that involves the sitting position. If I have to sit, I prefer the floor, or if I'm watching a movie or reading a book, I prefer laying down. If it's something for a few minutes and I can stand, I'll stand. I've been doing this for about a year now and it's the best I've ever felt while working this much. What I'd like to start mixing in are some runs or long walks, but right now it's a choice between those or getting sufficient sleep. I prioritize sleep.

cm2012 9y ago
Why work so many hours?
- raamdev 9y ago
  Because I love what I do.

yaseer 9y ago

I've found the Pomodoro method, coupled with walking and stretching between the breaks, helps immensely. The movement also helps me maintain energy levels during long periods of working, which can lull if I'm sedentary. I even find maintaining 'flow' perfectly attainable (provided that your mind stays on work between the breaks, and you don't check things like e-mails). I see the Pomodoro break more as a physical break from sitting, with the option of taking a mental break from work if I think it's necessary.

bakhy 9y ago

I'd also recommend getting a pull-up bar. Great excercise for keeping the back healthy!

ruleordie 9y ago

> Anyways, it’s not that complex to tackle this. A few changes in your habits should do the trick. This is complete garbage. The fact is, there is nothing you do to do 100% reverse the effects of sitting all day. You can maybe improve things by 20% or something like that. Progressive people keep hoping that you can use some kind of technology to change things but you can't. Standing desks don't do anything, standing up every hour doesn't do anything. There is nothing you can do. We are designed a certain way and if we don't live that way our health suffers greatly. The only solution is to go back to living that way no matter how hard you try to believe anything else.

yaseer 9y ago
> The only solution is to go back to living that way no matter how hard you try to believe anything else. Nobody can confidently assert this now; you are stating your belief, not a fact. We would need to do longitudinal studies on all the alternatives (standing desks, periodic walking) to be able to build up a picture. To my knowledge, that has not yet been done. It may take decades to build up a picture. Until then, people can choose options based on existing theories. In time, those theories will either be validated or refuted, but they have not yet been.
- ruleordie 9y ago
  > Nobody can confidently assert this now; you are stating your belief, not a fact. What does confidently asserting something have to do with a lack of scientific proof? Personal experience allows people to confidently assert things. > We would need to do longitudinal studies on all the alternatives (standing desks, periodic walking) to be able to build up a picture. To my knowledge, that has not yet been done. It may take decades to build up a picture. You can build up a picture on the previous decades where everything has failed. Technology has failed. Standing desks have failed. Current "workstations" were the solution to previous problems, and they have failed. Everything has failed. We are at a turning point where non-science religion people have realised that we can't keep going down the same path while technological messiahs keep claiming the future will be great. We can look back at the decline in human health. Why do we need tooth paste? It isn't a revolutionary new advance, it is a way to make our teeth slightly better but never better than before farming and industrialisation.

klatuveranictu 9y ago

I love how the writer causally mentions they drive a BMW and then proceeds to confuse the words relied and reliant.

mariushn 9y ago

Some more practical advice at https://www.juvmed.com/healthy-work-environment https://www.juvmed.com/healthy-work-environment

known 9y ago

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/00103102/ http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/00103102/ helps me to reducing back pain

eighthnate 9y ago

Just curious. Wouldn't evolution eventually take care of this? For most people, sitting down too much would be harmful. But due to mutations/genetic variance, there would be people who are relatively unaffected by prolonged sedentary life. Over time, wouldn't their genetics take over?

Renevith 9y ago
It depends on the nature of the harm. If sedentary life reduced the typical lifespan from 70 to 50 (which would be dramatic) but didn't significantly affect your health during your 20s and 30s, it would have little to no effect on reproduction and thus would not be genetically selected.

netsec_burn 9y ago

Stopped reading on the first graph. "Relative Death Risk" is presented as numbers without units. Everyone knows exercise is beneficial, this article shouldn't introduce you to anything new.

resoluteteeth 9y ago
Isn't relative risk unitless?

johndoe489 9y ago

Meh. I've been sitting at a computer for the past twenty years or so let's be honest. Yet in just a few months I feel my posture improving since I started psychotherapy and somatic experiencing therapy for trauma. Along with that I go to yoga once or twice a week. It's importnat to note here because I see the cogs spinning already... I actually did yoga years ago and did not notice the same effects. Therapy has been key to the changes I've observed in my posture. My conclusion is a lot of bodily tensions are connected with unresolved emotional charges. This is related to the nervous system at some level. My point is that posture, and general routine is symptomatic of your general emotional wellbeing. As with all things in life, moderation is the key. Just doing a 1h30 yoga class once a week will probably offset much of the problems mentioned in the article. I mean, I've sat at a computer (both for passion and work) for the past twenty years and have NEVER been fat. In fact I was underweight due to anxiety. I put on some weight in the gym in my early thirties which 70% have stayed without doing any regular exercise (which further confirms a health issue symptomatic of emotional / nervous system troubles affecting appetite). I suspect that improving posture and making an effort to keep a good posture goes a long way also to offset the problems of sitting. Don't get me wrong.. I can see in yoga class that sitting a lot has made muscles between inner thigh and pelvis very tight, as well as all the front making it diffuclt to stretch in various postures. The problem here is assuming that N hours spent sitting equal N equivalent "damage". But that's not how our body works. It may be that you only need a good gym or yoga session just once a week to offset much of the problem. Not that it "undoes" the damage; but rather seeps into the rest of the week with more tonus in posture, and more postural awareness. TLDR: context. Nobody gets fat because of sitting. If weight is really an issue I would suggest to seek therapy or if you feel that is not needed, try yoga or massage. Anything that takes you out of the left hemisphere's imbalance (cf. "The Divided Brain" by Iaian McGilchrist), and nurture more being in direct contact with the body, sensations, breathing.. as well as being more connected with others outside of intellectual activities. Surprisingly a lot of people think that "socializing" means talking. No, to be truly with others around you, is to be able to be there instead of taking refuge in the mind. That means to be at home in your body and how it feels. It's a journey.. it doesn't need to be taken in a couple days ;)

chrismealy 9y ago

ztjio 9y ago

A lot of people in here talking about how they started doing some activity once 2-3 times a week. Wow. Good for you, that can have some nice benefits. It has nothing to do with the stated concern based on the cited research whatsoever at all. The issues raised here refer to base level physical activity and its influence on things like triglyceride and cholesterol behaviors. And the repeating pattern is that even small activities, like moving around to get a drink, or just standing, literally doing nothing else, raise you into the threshold where your body is "normal" in how it deals with these things. Sitting, however, seems to be an outlier, allowing a degradation of these processes. Well guess what? Exercising once a day even won't change that, as the response time is quick. SO this isn't about you being a bike commuter, a rock climber, or a swimmer. It's about sitting specifically. It's about mounting evidence that our bodies evolved to expect constant muscular activity even at low levels and the near zero that happens during sitting is an outlier. You know, sitting is fairly unusual. In many areas of the world, both ancient and modern, people don't really sit. They squat, or stand, or shuffle around, but full on sitting is uncommon for a lot of people. I betcha the ol' asian/slavic squat activates enough muscles to not count as sitting. In one of the papers they even concede that heavy fidgeting might be enough to breach the threshold. So really what we're talking about is getting out of your chair, moving around, all the time if possible. Yeah that's hard for a programmer. Plus you can't ignore even very current research showing that standing itself, is harmful when doing it too much (for totally unrelated reasons.) So standing desks are a bad plan too. You know, I can't sit that long. I am not too worried about this for me. I shift around too much. Stand and wander in thought, get drinks, go to the bathroom, slide off my chair and kneel at the desk. Grab the tablet and flop around all over the house (I WFH 100%.) I go crazy staying at the desk constantly, for work anyway. Let's not talk about leisure time :) But upon reviewing a number of these studies, this is apparently exactly what's needed. Standing 1 minute every hour isn't a enough, no. But it's the right direction. The problem mainly being that sitting in a chair requires little to no physical effort at all whatsoever. That's the issue. Exercising 2, 3, 5 days a week, 1-2-3 hours? Doesn't matter. Don't confuse the two issues. That said, I bet those goofy desk bicycling things you put by your chair would do the trick, assuming they actually require some level of effort.

dominotw 9y ago

>When we tend to rest too much, like for example sitting continuously for hours What about walking around for 5 mins after every pomodoro. Is it still considered "too much sitting" ?

rahulchowdhury 9y ago
That should work just fine. Hours of inactivity will harm you. Frequent breaks, help.

feral 9y ago

I've seen a lot of articles about sitting but always have some questions: - I work with computers so sitting or standing a large portion of time is inevitable. - Is the real problem sitting/standing, or being unfit? If I don't get fat and if I keep fit, will I be ok? Or will sitting still harm me? - If the claim is that sitting still harms me, how robust is the science here? Do they control for the above? If sitting, as opposed to poor fitness is the problem, does regular movement help? or are we just doomed to this if we use computers?

nazka 9y ago
With all the articles and papers I read, the problem is that you never have to active your body and legs' muscles, even just slightly. Sometimes even your arms' muscles. And this kills us. The solution to all the problems this create for your body is to use your muscles, and even just a little bit is enough. - If you are usually standing: you don't have to be standing up for hours, just a few hours are enough. - If you are usually sitting: a yoga ball is great. You don't have to move all around, keeping your balance on the ball will be good enough. - And every hour you can take a quick break, or talk to someone so you will move out of your computer and use your muscles.
Nition 9y ago
And there are even more categories really. - Overweight, unfit, and sitting/standing for long periods. - Unfit and sitting/standing for long periods but not overweight. - Sitting/standing for long periods but not overweight or unfit. If obesity was the only health-related issue you could just eat less. If Obesity and unfitness were the only issues you could just get some exercise outside of work hours. And if all three are an issue you'd want to keep active as much as possible during work (although not too much... because physical labour jobs hurt people's health too).

guzik 9y ago

Well, I think people are aware of that as we have decent client base just for those who want to track their inactivity time (we've developed a chest strap that tracks lying on bed + sitting).

Fnoord 9y ago

"From making you fat to squeezing your bones, living a sedentary lifestyle has a plethora of negative benefits to offer. Just to give you a clear indication of how much this new age lifestyle impacts your overall health, here’s a graph which shows how likely are you to die based on your fitness level." With all due respect, where is the source? The problem is that it is very difficult to prove this scientifically. It is plausible that people who exercise more do other things which increase their health, such as smoke less or not at all, drink less or not at all, eat more healthy, are more content in life, are more rich or more educated, etc.

skinnymuch 9y ago

Many people here seem to be talking about how they have improved their commute or go to the gym a couple times a week. The article isn't about exercising once or twice a day though. It's about you sitting around too much during the day. Not regularly being even minorly active, no? Perhaps I'm mistaken but it seems like the people talking about their once or twice a day exercise arent on the same page as the article.

gggdvnkhmbgjvbn 9y ago
You are right and they are wrong. Sitting for extended periods is correlated with heart disease and other problems regardless of fitness. I've talked with multiple physical therapists about it and they've been very clear about that distinction. Other commenters here are missing the point.
- skinnymuch 9y ago
  Hah, cool. Nice to know you've talked to a variety of people. I myself don't do enough of either so I'm not helping myself enough yet.

Clubber 9y ago

I'm having a hard time distinguishing whether this is serious, or BS like herbal supplements. People have been sitting at desk jobs for over 100 years now and those people at an old age are living longer than anyone in history based on life expectancy.

stinos 9y ago
People have been sitting at desk jobs for over 100 years now and those people at an old age are living longer than anyone in history based on life expectancy. Isn't this one of those standard logic fallacies? I mean, A is true, B is true, but that does not mean B is true because A is true? There might be plenty of other factors affecting B. The advance in medical science for one. At least I always thought that alone was the most influencial factor on better life expectancy. Probably more than enough to even undo the effect of certain lifestyle habits making things worse. But yes, the article pretty much fails to provide exact numbers or even estimates on how bad a sedentary lifestyle really is.
dandermotj 9y ago
And obesity levels are higher than ever too. Dismissing this article's message because we are living longer is missing the point. We are living longer despite our poor physical health.
- ianai 9y ago
  For sure, there’s more than one reason for the obesity problem.
- Clubber 9y ago
  To misdiagnose the problem is worse than not diagnosing the problem at all. Remember when our collective consciousness believed that eating fat was what made you fat? All the food manufacturers starting advertising 0 fat but loaded the food with calories and sugar. This went on for about 15 years. Instead of assessing the problem as "sitting," maybe we should look at what scientific data says. I know food manufacturers put a hell of a lot of sugar in foods, even foods you wouldn't expect, like spaghetti sauce. They use it as a preservative, so it's in damn near everything. http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/z8849j6 http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/z8849j6 I know watching food commercials subconsciously compels people to eat, even after the restaurants are closed. Children consume 45% more food when exposed to food commercials. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2743554/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2743554/ I know certain foods, sugar in particular, have addictive properties similar to cocaine. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23719144 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23719144 Sitting may very well be a factor, but this article shows no links to any studies. Until I see some data, I'll consider it BS and so should you.

JoshMnem 9y ago

This program is useful for remembering to stand up regularly: http://www.workrave.org/ http://www.workrave.org/ I get up and do stretches and exercises every time it tells me to take a break. I set it for every 11 minutes, but it seems like the breaks are further apart than that. There were noticeable improvements within a week.

rahulchowdhury 9y ago
Thanks for the tip. :-)

PascLeRasc 9y ago

Is that first graph a parody? How am I supposed to compare two subjective assessments? They should have something like average lifespan instead of "death risk" and time spent exercising per week instead of "least-most fitness level".

nlh 9y ago

Side note: the entire site (http://elth.co http://elth.co) appears to be a single-person operation (a side project even — “I am currently put up in the lovely city of Bangalore in India, working for a startup as an Android Engineer.”) Kudos to the creator (OP). Looks to be a very well-done (if click-baity, but hey, that’s how you....well....kind of...get clicks these days) project, and it comes across very much like many of the larger content creators. Care to share some background on the project? Looks like you launched pretty recently. Goals? Am I correct in my assumptions here?

Antrikshy 9y ago
That makes it even more impressive. My first thought when I saw the article was "this is a well designed website". I love the typography!
- rahulchowdhury 9y ago
  Glad to know that you liked the design. I've been working on this for some time now. I'll keep polishing it.
- ValentineC 9y ago
  I like the design and typography too! A quick look at the source suggests that this might be the WordPress theme that the site is based on: https://themeforest.net/item/times-extraordinary-newspaper-magazine-theme/16993958 https://themeforest.net/item/times-extraordinary-newspaper-m...
rahulchowdhury 9y ago
Hi there, First of all, thanks for going through the mission statement and appreciating what I'm doing with this project. Having worked in a startup for over 2 years now, there's one thing that I have noticed. Most people like their butts glued to their chair and keeping activity to a minimum. I mean like for traveling even 1KM they tend to get a cab. I tried getting some guys to the gym with me or to eat healthy. Some tried. Some didn't. Most of them didn't stick to their healthy habits for long. What I was doing was cheerleading them to health. That's not the push they required. They needed to know what's wrong with their current habits. Why they should be improving their habits. How to do it. That is when this project was born. I wanted to hand out claims that are backed by science in a lucid manner. Also, what I think most blogs do is just say stuff and end the article. I want my readers to take away actionable tips after completing the article. They should be knowing what to do right after reading each article. That's my main aim with this project. Educate, inspire, and influence people towards a better life. To help them decide what's good for them. I launched the site yesterday. Planning to do 1-2 solid articles each week. Thanks again for your kind words. I'm more thrilled to work on this project after reading this comment. Made my day. Watch out for more articles on the blog. Cheers! Rahul