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Facebook Lawyer `Unsure' Whether Founder Mark Zuckerberg Signed Contract
- nkassis 16y agoThis is going to be interesting. If this guy wins, facebook is going to have a hell of a time surviving with uncertainty at the top.
- obsaysditto 16y agoDo you think most users will care about this? They'll just want to know if they can still see what their friends are doing, who has posted new photos, etc.
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- jrockway 16y agoWhat if the new owner decides to "generate revenue" by selling your personal information to the highest bidder, and then turns the site off? Reselling the information is cheaper than keeping a bunch of programmers and sysadmins employed, after all.
- joubert 16y agoclass action lawsuit perhaps?
- joezydeco 16y agoYou plan to ask for a refund? Nobody asked or paid 500 million users to put their entire lives online.
- jrockway 16y ago"But your honor, I didn't actually read the agreement I signed when I joined Facebook." Yeah, that sounds pretty good, but I would have a backup strategy just in case...
- Timothee 16y agoThat is, if his claim has any truth to it and if he doesn't settle out of court, which might be likely to happen considering what is at stake. (cf. previous Facebook lawsuits) I'm definitely curious about how that kind of things are handled, where a previous contract appears out of nowhere, completely changing how later contracts and investments would have happened.
- lwhi 16y agoCould you add a clause in any (subsequent) contracts dealing with this possibility? If this contract is valid, Zuckerberg would have known about it ever since 2003. If his business associates knew about it, would they have dealt with the situation proactively? If he chose not to disclose the information, maybe he'll be seen as a danger to the future prosperity of the company?
- keltex 16y agoIf the previous contract is deemed valid, then the later contracts are usually "breached" and they can sue for damages. This means that the first investors all the way until through the latest investors have contracts signed by Zuckerberg or company executives stating the beneficial ownership. And this ownership is no longer accurate.
- startuprules 16y agoNobody crosses the Russia Mafia....I mean investors.
- jrockway 16y agoThey should hire Lisa's brother, Bart, as co-counsel.
- bosch 16y agoI thought that was pretty funny. I don't understand the harshness with which people vote down jokes on here.
- FlemishBeeCycle 16y agoIf you're familiar with the content on Reddit, where the first 50% of the comments are puns and memes - not having to wade through that is actually quite refreshing. As to the harshness, I imagine people want to nip that behavior in the bud?
- bosch 16y agoI agree with you on that point, but I mean for a comment that had nothing to do with either a pun or a meme it's kinda ridiculous. This site will be like straight html without any css... and I think a bit of the later helps the former create a good atmosphere.
- jrockway 16y agoYeah, I'm really hurting! Now I only have 18,763 karma points...
- kwyjibo 16y agoNo suprise for me. There were already a few posts on hacker news about Facebook's and Zuckerberg's history, and this is just the creme de la creme.
- tamarindo 16y agoFacebook claims Ceglia remained silent for more than six years and his claim is probably too old to pursue. Have any independent legal experts corroborated Facebook's statement that "his claim is too old to pursue"?
- nano81 16y agogrellas' analysis from the original article here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1509512 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1509512
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- grellas 16y agoJust one additional note: The only reason this case got headlines was because a judge entered a TRO and this usually signifies that a case has merit of some kind. This case is an exception, however, as explained in my comment linked to above (explaining why the case has serious problems). As a follow up, upon removal of the case to federal court, the TRO has essentially already been dissolved: see http://www.allfacebook.com/2010/07/facebook-asset-freeze-struck-down-in-federal-court/ http://www.allfacebook.com/2010/07/facebook-asset-freeze-str....
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- startuprules 16y ago"Ceglia may be planning to argue that the statute of limitations didn't start until the contract was breached, which would have set the clock ticking in 2004, said Scott & Scott partner Julie Machal-Fulks." Check my response http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1533668 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1533668
- tkeller 16y agoFacebook, which hasn’t claimed the alleged contract with Ceglia is a phony, has "serious questions" about its authenticity, Simpson said. I don't understand this statement. If you're questioning its authenticity, aren't you implying that you think it's a phony?
- tamarindo 16y agoYes, but when you have "questions" about something's authenticity, it means you are the one asking for proof. If you claim that it's a phony, however, the burden is on you to show why you think it is so.
- tkeller 16y agoThe question of who has the burden of proof does not turn on whether Facebook says it has questions or whether it says flat out that it's a phony.
- Elite 16y agoAccording to the above Bloomberg Article: Ceglia claims his alleged contract, which refers to "The Face Book" was signed about nine months before Facebook was founded, the company said in court papers. According to the NYT from 2007:http://nyti.ms/cC0HwJ http://nyti.ms/cC0HwJ "An e-mail message, circulated widely by Mr. Greenspan to Harvard students on Sept. 19, 2003, describes the newest feature of houseSYSTEM, as "The Face Book" an online system for quickly locating other students. The date was four months before Mr. Zuckerberg started his own site" My question: did these two parties independently come up with an idea for "The Face Book" for Harvard and both pitched it to Zuckerberg? Seems odd at the very least on the face of things. Greenspan, if you can comment on this -- were you affiliated with Ceglia at all?
- themichael 16y agoThe traditional Harvard freshman register is known as "The Facebook". "Harvard Yearbook Publications is responsible for the creation and production of the Senior Yearbook as well as the Freshman Register (also known as the Facebook). The Freshman Register is an extremely useful hardbound reference book for freshmen that contains photographs, addresses, and secondary schools of class members." (http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~yearbook/purchase/ http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~yearbook/purchase/). Login: http://facebook.college.harvard.edu http://facebook.college.harvard.edu
- swernli 16y agoThe term "Face Book" as a resource for seeing peoples names and a info along with a photo in a less formal yearbook-style setting is not new at all. My high school had a "Face book" in paperback form that was distributed at the beginning of the year to help folks get to know one another. That was in 2001. The Harvard site was merely an online version of this kind of flat, searchable list, with no user edittable content. You put in a name, major, or dorm, and it would show you a list of pictures of students that matched that search criteria. That's it. Much as I love tales of Zuckerberg sneakily stealing the idea for thefacebook.com, the Harvard site you mention was so basic that I'd say it's no more the precursor to facebook than any online yearbook or student directory.
- klochner 16y agoZuck attracts contract lawsuits like Clinton used to draw sexual harassment claims.
- startuprules 16y ago"This is not necessarily an open-and-shut case for Facebook. The fact that the judge froze Facebook's assets suggests there may be extenuating circumstances favoring Ceglia, Gendelman pointed out. Also, Ceglia may be planning to argue that the statute of limitations didn't start until the contract was breached, which would have set the clock ticking in 2004, said Scott & Scott partner Julie Machal-Fulks. There is room for that argument in New York law, she told the E-Commerce Times. As for the last-minute challenge, that too makes sense -- at least, it can be argued in court, said Jonathan Askin, associate professor of clinical law at Brooklyn Law School. "Logically, these ownership challenges only occur after a company has value or is on the verge of success. Why would anyone sue a company before it has value?" he asked." from http://www.ecommercetimes.com/rsstory/70403.html http://www.ecommercetimes.com/rsstory/70403.html
- thinkcomp 16y agoI don't know anything about the case, but based on looking at the document, it looks like Mark's signature and handwriting to me. I guess it could have been copied from something else, though.
- hop 16y agoIs there a copy of that document floating around?
- Elite 16y agohttp://www.scribd.com/doc/34239119/Ceglia-v-Zuckerberg-complaint http://www.scribd.com/doc/34239119/Ceglia-v-Zuckerberg-compl... 2003 Contract starts on page 11
- Alex3917 16y agoOn the last page there is a scan of a bank deposit slip with the routing number on the bottom. If the bank deposit slip is real then shouldn't it be possible to verify that with the bank's records?
- qhoxie 16y agoFYI you can link to pages now: Page 11: http://www.scribd.com/doc/34239119/Ceglia-v-Zuckerberg-complaint#page=11 http://www.scribd.com/doc/34239119/Ceglia-v-Zuckerberg-compl... Last page: http://www.scribd.com/doc/34239119/Ceglia-v-Zuckerberg-complaint#page=16 http://www.scribd.com/doc/34239119/Ceglia-v-Zuckerberg-compl...
- ary 16y ago"Behind every great fortune there is a crime." - Honore de Balzac This is getting a bit tiresome. Tiresome to hear about, tiresome to watch, and certainly tiresome to think about. At a gut level I think this isn't the last contest for ownership of something with debatable value. 500,000,000 sets of eyeballs have quite a bit of potential, but what guarantee is there of revenue? Facebook, like Paris Hilton, is popular for being popular. Why is Facebook valuable? No one can say. This is lost on just about everyone. I suppose I could have just noted that it would be nice if they'd do something worth talking about once in a while instead of getting sued at an interval.
- n8agrin 16y agoI'm pretty sure Facebook has been cash flow positive for a while. Here's the Techcrunch article about it from nearly a year ago: http://techcrunch.com/2009/09/15/facebook-crosses-300-million-users-oh-yeah-and-their-cash-flow-just-went-positive/ http://techcrunch.com/2009/09/15/facebook-crosses-300-millio... Also here's a report from Reuters: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65H01W20100618 http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65H01W20100618 Well, at least you got to quote Monsieur Balzac. Hell of a name.
- ary 16y agoI was aware of Facebook's profitability when I made the post. I still take issue with whether or not they've provided anything of value. When one gives search terms to Google one gets back search results. When one gives personal information to Facebook what does one get in return? As for the retaliatory down-voting, way to stay classy people.
- matwood 16y agoI wouldn't have down voted you, but anyway. FBs value is in connecting people. Humans are social by nature and FB extends that social nature out many orders of magnitude. Like you, I do wonder if the value is being over hyped. Who needs or even wants 100s of 'friends?' Real friends take time and effort and I wonder if we'll see backlash where people get back to less friends, but closer relationships.
- dandelany 16y agoHow much you wanna bet this is all an ad for the upcoming Facebook movie? ;)
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- adamtj 16y agoFacebook users don't own their data, and now it seems Facebook's owner may not own Facebook. That seems fitting.