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> "Judging from the private feedback I've gotten from some Apple employees, I'm 100 per cent certain there's going to be some degree of attrition based on the o

> "Judging from the private feedback I've gotten from some Apple employees, I'm 100 per cent certain there's going to be some degree of attrition based on the open floor plans, where good employees are going to choose to leave because they don't want to work there," Gruber said. But where are they going to go? Is there a single company left that hasn't adopted the open floor plan ideology? If so, are they hiring because I'd like to send in my resume. :/

TeMPOraL 9y ago
This. I so strongly wish companies would start including their office arrangement in the job description. It would make it easier for me to avoid open-plan places, and it would let those who like them avoid offices/cubicles - thus making it more likely employees will feel good and thus work at peak productivity. It would also let the industry gather some real feedback about people's preferences. I don't really see a downside of including that info.
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  Microsoft did this when they promoted their private offices in the 80s. Unfortunately, I can't find a copy of this newspaper job ad on google, but I saw it internally on Yammer.
- amelius 9y ago
  Or better yet, offer both styles of workplace.
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    That would be best, sure, but not every company can (and owners can subscribe to their own philosophies of workplace). All I'm saying is that providing this information would help potential candidates self-select to environments they find comfortable, which is beneficial both for employees and the company.
    - amelius 9y ago
      True. But perhaps different types of people like different styles of workplace. E.g. "creatives" could prefer the open style, whereas programmers could prefer the office style. An alternative solution is to allow employees to freely move between workspaces.
- dvfjsdhgfv 9y ago
  It's a great idea - as there are very few these companies, their ads would stand out. Honestly, I don't know one single developer who loves open-plan places and wouldn't like to have a quiet room to work in. Most just wear headphones and try to eliminate cognitive noise in every way they can.
  - classybull 9y ago
    I enjoy them. It strikes me as extremely odd that the main complaint against open floor plans is that they kill productivity. This is such a complaint that there's people up and down this post moaning in agony as if it were literal torture that they're unable to be as productive as possible. Personally, I don't think that a company is entitled to me working at 100% productivity constantly, because I value my sanity too much. Yet, here are people begging, pleading for their employer to make them be able to produce more for their corporate overlord. M'eh. I work at the efficiency that is comfortable for me. Occasionally I chat with my coworkers about stupid shit to keep my mind loose and give it a break. If I absolutely need to be in the zone for a couple hours, I put on headphones, find a private room, or work from home. I'm completely ok with open floor plans. About the only things that would draw me to a private office job is, first, the prestige of having your own office, and second, the sense of ownership of space. I imagine it to be very comforting to go into work and have one little 8'x10' space which is "yours". If we're being honest, I think these two things are actually what the anti-open office people want. They just use productivity as a way of masking it and making it appear better to their employers.
    - TeMPOraL 9y ago
      Disclaimer: I'll tell you how it is in my case, so it may not reflect the feelings of other open-plan-haters. It's not about wanting to "be able to produce more for my corporate overlord". It's precisely about preserving sanity. I simply can't focus well with people around me - not just when they're talking (in an open plan, at any given point in time, there is someone that has something interesting to say). The very presence of other people next to me is stressful to me, especially if they're paying attention to me and are within visual range of me. That stress destroys my focus, which leads to lack of productivity, which leads to more stress - a "vicious cycle". When I can ensure that nobody can walk behind my back, I can survive an open-plan office with just headphones and loud music (to cut off audio distractions). Still, in some cases, the very presence of other people in the same room will make me unable to concentrate hard enough to solve some tough problems - at which point I'll either go to the conference room, do the work out of office, or just come in late so that I get ~2 - 3 hours alone in the room in the evening. Some time ago I managed to persuade my employer to give me 2 days/week of working from home; this alone did wonders to my sanity. 3 days between people is just about enough direct human interaction for me. 5 days tends to take a toll on my psyche. And again, it's not about productivity for the sake of pleasing the boss. It's just that I feel really bad when I feel I'm continuously underperforming (compared to my performance in proper conditions, i.e. not having other people around).
- CaliforniaKarl 9y ago
  OK, let's try that ~15 days from now, when the next "Who's Hiring?" post goes live. Edit: Here's my suggestion: In the first line of the post, insert one of the following key words: • "OFFICEn": Replace 'n' with a number ≥ 0 and ≤ 3, this means you will be in an office with 'n' other people. So, "OFFICE0" means you'll be in an office by yourself. 'Office' means a space with floor-to-ceiling walls _and_ a door you can close, and where the door leads into another company-owned space (like a hallway, or open area). • "CUBEn": Replace 'n' with a number > 0, this means you'll be in a cubicle where the cube walls are 'n' feet tall (measured from the floor). • "OPEN": You'll be in a space where there are no walls separating you from your immediate co-workers. It is possible for you to stare straight ahead, rotate your chair 90° (in either direction, relative to your normal work position), and be looking at one of your co-workers. In addition to one of the three words, the following word can be prefixed: • "HOT": The space you'll work in is not specifically assigned to you. Instead, you will simply find an open space of this type, possibly working in a different location each day.
- sah2ed 9y ago
  I guess ex-employees could be nudged to volunteer info on open plan arrangements in their Glassdoor reviews.
- tetraodonpuffer 9y ago
  some companies do, one company I see openings for on the local job board puts something like "on your first day you will come in and go to your own private office" in all their ads. I have thought of working there just based on that...
uhhhouses 9y ago
Microsoft still has some dedicated office buildings, IIRC.

TeMPOraL 9y ago

This. I so strongly wish companies would start including their office arrangement in the job description. It would make it easier for me to avoid open-plan places, and it would let those who like them avoid offices/cubicles - thus making it more likely employees will feel good and thus work at peak productivity. It would also let the industry gather some real feedback about people's preferences. I don't really see a downside of including that info.

seanmcdirmid 9y ago
Microsoft did this when they promoted their private offices in the 80s. Unfortunately, I can't find a copy of this newspaper job ad on google, but I saw it internally on Yammer.
amelius 9y ago
Or better yet, offer both styles of workplace.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  That would be best, sure, but not every company can (and owners can subscribe to their own philosophies of workplace). All I'm saying is that providing this information would help potential candidates self-select to environments they find comfortable, which is beneficial both for employees and the company.
  - amelius 9y ago
    True. But perhaps different types of people like different styles of workplace. E.g. "creatives" could prefer the open style, whereas programmers could prefer the office style. An alternative solution is to allow employees to freely move between workspaces.
dvfjsdhgfv 9y ago
It's a great idea - as there are very few these companies, their ads would stand out. Honestly, I don't know one single developer who loves open-plan places and wouldn't like to have a quiet room to work in. Most just wear headphones and try to eliminate cognitive noise in every way they can.
- classybull 9y ago
  I enjoy them. It strikes me as extremely odd that the main complaint against open floor plans is that they kill productivity. This is such a complaint that there's people up and down this post moaning in agony as if it were literal torture that they're unable to be as productive as possible. Personally, I don't think that a company is entitled to me working at 100% productivity constantly, because I value my sanity too much. Yet, here are people begging, pleading for their employer to make them be able to produce more for their corporate overlord. M'eh. I work at the efficiency that is comfortable for me. Occasionally I chat with my coworkers about stupid shit to keep my mind loose and give it a break. If I absolutely need to be in the zone for a couple hours, I put on headphones, find a private room, or work from home. I'm completely ok with open floor plans. About the only things that would draw me to a private office job is, first, the prestige of having your own office, and second, the sense of ownership of space. I imagine it to be very comforting to go into work and have one little 8'x10' space which is "yours". If we're being honest, I think these two things are actually what the anti-open office people want. They just use productivity as a way of masking it and making it appear better to their employers.
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    Disclaimer: I'll tell you how it is in my case, so it may not reflect the feelings of other open-plan-haters. It's not about wanting to "be able to produce more for my corporate overlord". It's precisely about preserving sanity. I simply can't focus well with people around me - not just when they're talking (in an open plan, at any given point in time, there is someone that has something interesting to say). The very presence of other people next to me is stressful to me, especially if they're paying attention to me and are within visual range of me. That stress destroys my focus, which leads to lack of productivity, which leads to more stress - a "vicious cycle". When I can ensure that nobody can walk behind my back, I can survive an open-plan office with just headphones and loud music (to cut off audio distractions). Still, in some cases, the very presence of other people in the same room will make me unable to concentrate hard enough to solve some tough problems - at which point I'll either go to the conference room, do the work out of office, or just come in late so that I get ~2 - 3 hours alone in the room in the evening. Some time ago I managed to persuade my employer to give me 2 days/week of working from home; this alone did wonders to my sanity. 3 days between people is just about enough direct human interaction for me. 5 days tends to take a toll on my psyche. And again, it's not about productivity for the sake of pleasing the boss. It's just that I feel really bad when I feel I'm continuously underperforming (compared to my performance in proper conditions, i.e. not having other people around).
CaliforniaKarl 9y ago
OK, let's try that ~15 days from now, when the next "Who's Hiring?" post goes live. Edit: Here's my suggestion: In the first line of the post, insert one of the following key words: • "OFFICEn": Replace 'n' with a number ≥ 0 and ≤ 3, this means you will be in an office with 'n' other people. So, "OFFICE0" means you'll be in an office by yourself. 'Office' means a space with floor-to-ceiling walls _and_ a door you can close, and where the door leads into another company-owned space (like a hallway, or open area). • "CUBEn": Replace 'n' with a number > 0, this means you'll be in a cubicle where the cube walls are 'n' feet tall (measured from the floor). • "OPEN": You'll be in a space where there are no walls separating you from your immediate co-workers. It is possible for you to stare straight ahead, rotate your chair 90° (in either direction, relative to your normal work position), and be looking at one of your co-workers. In addition to one of the three words, the following word can be prefixed: • "HOT": The space you'll work in is not specifically assigned to you. Instead, you will simply find an open space of this type, possibly working in a different location each day.
sah2ed 9y ago
I guess ex-employees could be nudged to volunteer info on open plan arrangements in their Glassdoor reviews.
tetraodonpuffer 9y ago
some companies do, one company I see openings for on the local job board puts something like "on your first day you will come in and go to your own private office" in all their ads. I have thought of working there just based on that...

uhhhouses 9y ago

Microsoft still has some dedicated office buildings, IIRC.