11 ms·

I wonder what will happen to a generation obsessed with idols who don't contribute anything to society aside from memes, hot bodies and various rants. But I gu

I wonder what will happen to a generation obsessed with idols who don't contribute anything to society aside from memes, hot bodies and various rants. But I guess I'm just old and grumpy.

jldugger 9y ago
Are we talking about millenials, or boomers here? Cuz the complaint seems it could lobbied at pretty much anyone.
- barsonme 9y ago
  All of the above, although I think millennials and Gen Z are demonstrably worse when it comes to vanity. My mother's a 2nd grade teacher and does the usual "what do you want to be when you grow up?" bit each year. The last couple years she's had a very significant number of her students say "YouTube or Instagram star" instead of the usual firefighter/police officer/doctor/soldier/etc. (Also not the most disturbing trend to come from her recent batch(es) of kids.) I'm really glad our country is at place where being funny on a social media website is enough to make a good living, but I can't help but feel there's something missing—something keeping them grounded. I get that boomers and Gen Xers are vain—I love to rag on them, and, really, we all are vain to some extent—but millennials and Gen Z seem to be taking it to a different level.
  - mahyarm 9y ago
    Vs. rapper, or sports player? An IG / youtube star is being a lower-middle class celebrity, which is actually a first in many ways.
    - DaiPlusPlus 9y ago
      Is it the new "featured in the local newspaper once"?
      - ringaroundthetx 9y ago
        No, its "making six figures if you nail a niche" once. Like the grown men dressing up as Elsa from Frozen and Spiderman and recording two minutes of weird sounds, just because they figured out why the analytics said 35 year old women watched that, while the marketers couldn't figure out that it meant their kids were seeing it on internet connected toys that happened to play youtube videos. Anyone can do it, for now.
    - nl 9y ago
      Vs. rapper, or sports player? An IG / youtube star is being a lower-middle class celebrity, which is actually a first in many ways What on earth does lower-middle class celebrity mean here? Where does the alleged class difference come from? There are many valid criticisms of YouTube/IG stars, but is Michelle Phan really lower-middle class compared to say Nicki Minaj?! Because lots of the private-school mums I know are more than happy to watch Michelle Phan with their daughters but ban Nicki Minaj.
      - mahyarm 9y ago
        By class I meant income level, not culture. In the past being a profitable artist meant superstardom or poverty, with a rare few in between with middle class incomes. Now with Youtube/patreon, there is a good chunk of 'middle class artists' that are developing today that didn't exist in the numbers that these platforms created.
  - arkitaip 9y ago
    "The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." -- Some Greek Guy, like really long time ago.
    - point78 9y ago
      Too funny, literally since the beginning of time every generation has been complaining about "those damn kids"!!
    - barsonme 9y ago
      I'm just relaying the perceptions of a teacher who's been teaching children since the '80s ;-)
    - shpx 9y ago
      [This quote] was crafted by a student, Kenneth John Freeman, for his Cambridge dissertation published in 1907. https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/01/misbehaving-children-in-ancient-times/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/01/misbehaving-childre...
      - ringaroundthetx 9y ago
        Still aging quite well to show the relativity (or constant) of people's perceptions
  - toast0 9y ago
    > The last couple years she's had a very significant number of her students say "YouTube or Instagram star" When I was growing up, lots of people wanted to be Movie/TV stars. I think YouTube stardom has lowered the barrier to making being vapid a carrier choice.
  - derefr 9y ago
    Is wanting to be a YouTube channel host really a marker of vanity? It's essentially saying that you want to be an actor, scriptwriter, director and entrepreneur for your own television series. It's the "solo app developer" equivalent for the entertainment industry. Like app developers, I would expect people to get into the business more out of a desire for freedom to set their own hours and not have a boss, than out of a desire to be seen. Except where programming is for introverts, screenwriting and acting comes more naturally to extroverts. Basically, I see the "YouTube biz" as being much like stand-up comedy, but without the travelling.
    - barsonme 9y ago
      I can agree with the extrovert/autonomy part. To this, though > Is wanting to be a YouTube channel host really a marker of vanity? I'd say it's a good indicator. Not every channel will be like https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4mLlRa_dezwvytudo9s1sw https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4mLlRa_dezwvytudo9s1sw or https://www.youtube.com/user/TheBackyardScientist https://www.youtube.com/user/TheBackyardScientist with funny or informative skits. Sometimes I'll open the 'search' part of Instagram and just scroll through the posts and wonder how so many people have their own brands when all the do is post selfies. I'd totally do it if I could. But it's definitely vanity.
      - irahul 9y ago
        > I'd totally do it if I could. This seems like the root of your issue. > But it's definitely vanity. The only people to use vanity as an insult are people who have nothing to be vain about. Do you cover your grays? Do you wear flattering clothes? Do you buy nice phones? Why bother? It's all vain shit.
        derefr 9y ago
        There are two usages to the word "vanity." The one you're referring to has more to do with dignity (the desire to be respected by everybody.) The property under scrutiny by the parent poster, though, is (I think) more like "narcissism"—the desire to be perceived as the best person ever by as many people as possible. The desire for dignity is universal; whereas narcissism is a (rather uncommon) personality flaw.
  - remarkEon 9y ago
    >I'm really glad our country is at place where being funny on a social media website is enough to make a good living, but I can't help but feel there's something missing—something keeping them grounded. I am the opposite of "glad" about this. It's highly concerning to me. My sister is also a school teacher and her students are just 4th graders and see this as legitimate life goals. Think of how that forms the development of a young child.
    - irahul 9y ago
      > Think of how that forms the development of a young child. It depends. Option 1: "Hey buddy. So you want to be a youtube star. Which ones you like? The funny ones? The lifters? The fashion vloggers? It's actually a lot of work. You will need a script, a cameraman, a director, actors etc. And all said and done, for every youtube star, there are tens of thousands who just toil in obscurity. But that's a risk which comes with a lot of life's decisions and you can decide later on if you really want to do it or if you want to do it part time. Back to the production process. It's not very different from what we do in our school's theater except that there is a massive potential increase in your reach. Why don't you try coming up with a concept and I can walk you through the iterations it takes for the final product. We can even try to schedule a screening for the class and put it on youtube." Option 2: "Youtube star? SMH. What has become of today's generation?"
    - dingaling 9y ago
      > and see this as legitimate life goals. Well at least it is a goal. When I was in secondary school in the UK ( mid-1980s ) career guidance was just being introduced as a concept. I think it was a couple of half-hour sessions one year and then being left with a folder of job descriptions. So most of us in my year left school and picked a university course without having any career goal or aspiration. I am mid-40s now and still don't know what I want to do but unfortunately it is too late for many opportunities. I have a good friend who was the school sports champion and even she just fell into an unrelated career by accident. If kids today want to be YouTube stars then that's great, hopefully it will give them an objective and a reason to study particular subjects instead of "the teacher seems nice" or "I need to pick one subject from that category"
  - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
    > "YouTube or Instagram star" instead of the usual firefighter/police officer/doctor/soldier/etc...disturbing trend Does your mother moralise her second graders' choices like this? (I'd guess not.) The number of people helped or even saved by movement leaders or other cultural icons can easily exceed the contributions of the public sector roles you described. I don't see why "Instagram star" is that different from "movie star" or "astronaut" for that matter. (It certainly seems better than "football player.")
    - barsonme 9y ago
      I don't think it's moralizing to acknowledge that certain career choices lend themselves to vanity. I mean, we can come up with other less-than-desirable traits for other careers like programming, can't we?
  - jedberg 9y ago
    Just replace Youtube Star with Movie star. At least growing up in LA, lots of my friends wanted to be movie stars and rock stars. Some of them actually are now. They apparently provide value to someone, because they make millions of dollars.
    - inimino 9y ago
      > They apparently provide value to someone, because they make millions of dollars. I would be careful with that kind of reasoning.
      - fooker 9y ago
        That is more or less the definition of providing value.
        michaelt 9y ago
        Bernie Madoff made millions of dollars without producing any value. I don't think making millions of dollars is the definition of producing value.
        TeMPOraL 9y ago
        That is the definition of providing monetary value to someone, not actual value to society. The two are correlated, but weakly.
  - urspx 9y ago
    >he last couple years she's had a very significant number of her students say "YouTube or Instagram star" instead of the usual firefighter/police officer/doctor/soldier/etc. To be fair, I'd rather be a youtube star than a professional murderer, too.
    - KGIII 9y ago
      Which one of those professions is a professional murderer?
      - arkadiytehgraet 9y ago
        At the very least - police officer and soldier.
        KGIII 9y ago
        Murder is unlawful killing. Neither of those are professional murderers, by default. Some have murdered, but that's not usually why we hire them.
  - pmontra 9y ago
    I guess it's hard to ascend to stardom. What's the ratio between stars and non stars? Stars have to stand among other people. If everybody is a star nobody is. Those kids are going to be as deluded as every past generation or are looking forward to a more difficult battle.
    - interstitial 9y ago
      When dealing with social ratios, the safest bet is 20% of the stars get 80% of the views. If it were otherwise, someone should write a paper, it would be huge news.
  - pjc50 9y ago
    > I can't help but feel there's something missing Expectations of livable pay from those jobs? Favourable media presentation of them? Is it vanity or just adapting to the new economy?
  - doldge 9y ago
    This is tangential, but I believe vanity has been increasing with every generation for a while now. Each generation is more vain then the generation that came before it. I don't know if that statement holds beyond the last 100 years, but certainly it does till then. I would chalk it up to being the result of the communications expansion, with each year our audience increases (by virtue of our increasing ability to travel the world, and by the ever expanding internet), and with that expanding audience comes a desire for us to be liked by the greatest number of them, which involves out-competing everyone else.
    - jrimbault 9y ago
      Or it's just an illusion. https://xkcd.com/1227/ https://xkcd.com/1227/ The only "valid" (imo) complaint in this comic is in 1905: >"The profession of letters is so little understood" I wish the humanities played a larger role in our engineered society. I see a lot of technical people who've never read Popper (which is relevant to technical fields) or any other philosopher (which are always good reading, or at least interesting).
princeb 9y ago
they will create a rapidly evolving and flourishing entertainment industry, of which globally, america has the largest. this in turn boosts growth in related industries fashion, marketing, online retail, and of these the US is probably also the largest in all three.
- justicezyx 9y ago
  I am not sure how much you really see what the OP is asking... The OP is asking, what will happen when a generation of human are indulged in useless idols. Then you continue to describe an industry out of useless idols and their fans... Hack, I am not surprised by this type of apparently startlingly myopic vision of human society. It seems everything is just for profit. No matter how stupid the thing is, if there is a chance for profit, then go for it. In the end, who can answer the simple question: Who create the value to drive the profit?
  - sjg007 9y ago
    The value is the entertainment escape (dopamine rush) that meme or idol generates in your synapses. Typically a YouTube idol has to have done something interesting e.g. Music etc.. so it's a creative space. Cat chez burgers was a big meme factory at one point doing millions. Buy an ad and your customer might remember it. Create a meme and you live forever.
- eksemplar 9y ago
  Entertainment isn't really an industry though. It produces nothing of real value and relies on being financed by those who do. There is a reason Bollywood is a more profitable "industry" than Hollywood, and it's not because their product is better. It's because their society actually nets a profit from production that they can then spend on leisure. If our best and brightest young children become internet celebrities because it made good sense, then there won't be anyone to keep the gears grinding. Worse than that, on instagram you're still the product being sold even when you're then one being followed.
  - PhasmaFelis 9y ago
fleitz 9y ago
They'll get old and then complain about the new generation doing the same thing. Just like those geezers in The Clash complained about 'phoney beatle mania'
NTDF9 9y ago
There are a few kids who end up gaining success out of vanity. But so so so many kids destroy their lives chasing popularity. Looks like more and more kids will learn it the hard way.
econner 9y ago
I doubt things have changed that much. Certain individuals are more visible now, but I'm sure there are still plenty of people who are not obsessed with these things.
ikeyany 9y ago
They'll keep the psychiatrists employed for decades, wondering why internet fame isn't fulfilling.
- pravda 9y ago
  Is any kind of fame fulfilling?
  - ikeyany 9y ago
    Of course. Though it depends on what you were looking to get out of it.
- irahul 9y ago
  > wondering why internet fame isn't fulfilling. I feel internet fame is more fulfilling than being a nobody slaving in a 9-5 job. And there is also easy endorsement money which comes with the fame.
  - ikeyany 9y ago
    I would agree that in itself, working 9-5 is unfulfilling. But most people see work as a means to a more fulfilling end.
    - irahul 9y ago
      I don't have a particular affinity towards or against insta influencers or youtube stars. I just find the comments amusing. "I am so much better than insta influencers because, uh, I have a job? I don't seek validation from strangers? I am not sure but I sure know that they are the downfall of the humanity"
      - ikeyany 9y ago
        I think generally yes, we as a society look down on those who are starved enough for attention and validation to constantly need it from strangers. That's pretty much how society has always been.
bduerst 9y ago
I was reading an SCP involving memetic viruses and couldn't help but think about how much internet memes drown out the chance to read newer content. /get off my lawn
jedberg 9y ago
You mean like movie stars? We've had at least four generations now obsessed with movie stars. It's also been the century of greatest achievement for humankind. Correlation isn't causation though. :)
- jonahx 9y ago
  > You mean like movie stars? Looks get you in the door here, but the large majority of movie stars are experts in a legitimate art form -- acting.
  - jonknee 9y ago
    What do you think social media celebrities are doing?
    - jonahx 9y ago
      So you don't see a difference between, say, kim kardashian's instagram feed and what a top hollywood actress does?
      - justboxing 9y ago
        > So you don't see a difference between Nope. There is no difference. @jonknee is right. I once met this camera grip boy at a boxing fight watch here in San Francisco. He worked at various sets in L.A., very close to the filming. He would say how he was on Kim Kardashian's "Reality Show" and how the whole thing was completely scripted for shock effect, drama etc. He said "They'd sometime do retakes and tell Kim - "This time yell at your sister louder, and then throw in a I hate you B*tch at the end." They are all actors. The only difference I see is hollywood actors are elite level, having gone to school, and experienced and top notch, whereas the likes of Kim Kardashian, that Jersey Shores girl are low end trash, but both types make a ton of money on 2 different medium - the former in big screen, the latter on fake "Reality TV shows", and social media (where they get paid to promote crap).
        9y ago
erikb 9y ago
You think this is different from previous generations? Please. Every generation is like that when they are around 14.
- tw04 9y ago
  Correct. But previous generations didn't have adults catering to 14 year olds either. Can you imagine Walter Cronkite quoting "@hotmom2277 says Vietnam sucks realz badz y0" on the nightly news? Me either...
  - erikb 9y ago
    Of course they had. Who do you think worked at MTV back in the day? These were all 30+ years old acting like they were 14 themselves and making good money with it. It just feels natural if all you know is how to act like a 14 year old and haven't been 30 yet to see how weird it looks from the other side of the table.
    - tw04 9y ago
      MTV wasn't considered a serious news outlet at any point in history. Comparing an entertainment channel from 30 years ago to legitimate journalists is a pretty poor comparison - ignoring the fact MTV didn't exist until years after the Vietnam war was over.
- bluthru 9y ago
  >Every generation is like that when they are around 14. Who were the "idols who don't contribute anything to society" up until the 1940s when "teenagers" were invented? In the grand scheme of things this is still a very recent phenomenon.
  - nl 9y ago
    Our sires' age was worse than our grandsires'. We, their sons, are more worthless than they; so in our turn we shall give the world a progeny yet more corrupt Horace, 20 BC
type-2 9y ago
Good guess
majani 9y ago
If you go back as far as Socrates, he was against the youth reading books in an age where intellectuals were known for reciting literature by heart. So yes, you are just old and grumpy.
irahul 9y ago
> who don't contribute anything to society aside from memes, hot bodies and various rants Just like all other mediums of popular media.
swang 9y ago
almost every "old" generation says this about the "new" generation. you can go back and look at articles and magazines that say the same thing about your generation. and when i say "your generation" i don't even know which "generation" you are. it doesn't matter since most likely there's been a negative article written about your age group regardless of how old you actually are.
- rowyourboat 9y ago
  Socrates famously complained about the lack of the youth's manners and respect.
- odiroot 9y ago
  I tend to be really careful with this generational judgement. I'm 30 myself and I find a lot about my parents' generations to be good and naturally a lot bad things as well. Now I'm frequently really tired of my generation (Gen Y, I guess) and, surprisingly, find recently that I'm really hopeful about Gen Z. They're like more polished version of us. Maybe it's an effect of growing up in post-financial-crisis world.
  - jpetso 9y ago
    Nah, they just haven't had the time and opportunity to gain and abuse power, or to become disillusioned. They'll be just as questionable as ourselves when they're our age. In different ways.
k-mcgrady 9y ago
>> I wonder what will happen to a generation obsessed with idols who don't contribute anything to society Unlike the previous couple of generations who contributed a global financial crisis, multiple unnecessary wars, massive environmental destruction, and a rising wave of racism and populism. See, I can pick and choose things too.
- mezuzi 9y ago
  The previous too generations didn't have a "milo" preaching family values!!
  - zardo 9y ago
    That's right! They had entirely different right wing celebrities preaching family values.
blubb-fish 9y ago
> But I guess I'm just old and grumpy. No, I think you have a point.
whipoodle 9y ago
To paraphrase Frank Zappa, pheeeeeeuw.

I wonder what will happen to a generation obsessed with idols who don't contribute anything to society aside from memes, hot bodies and various rants. But I guess I'm just old and grumpy.

jldugger 9y ago

Are we talking about millenials, or boomers here? Cuz the complaint seems it could lobbied at pretty much anyone.

barsonme 9y ago
All of the above, although I think millennials and Gen Z are demonstrably worse when it comes to vanity. My mother's a 2nd grade teacher and does the usual "what do you want to be when you grow up?" bit each year. The last couple years she's had a very significant number of her students say "YouTube or Instagram star" instead of the usual firefighter/police officer/doctor/soldier/etc. (Also not the most disturbing trend to come from her recent batch(es) of kids.) I'm really glad our country is at place where being funny on a social media website is enough to make a good living, but I can't help but feel there's something missing—something keeping them grounded. I get that boomers and Gen Xers are vain—I love to rag on them, and, really, we all are vain to some extent—but millennials and Gen Z seem to be taking it to a different level.
- mahyarm 9y ago
  Vs. rapper, or sports player? An IG / youtube star is being a lower-middle class celebrity, which is actually a first in many ways.
  - DaiPlusPlus 9y ago
    Is it the new "featured in the local newspaper once"?
    - ringaroundthetx 9y ago
      No, its "making six figures if you nail a niche" once. Like the grown men dressing up as Elsa from Frozen and Spiderman and recording two minutes of weird sounds, just because they figured out why the analytics said 35 year old women watched that, while the marketers couldn't figure out that it meant their kids were seeing it on internet connected toys that happened to play youtube videos. Anyone can do it, for now.
  - nl 9y ago
    Vs. rapper, or sports player? An IG / youtube star is being a lower-middle class celebrity, which is actually a first in many ways What on earth does lower-middle class celebrity mean here? Where does the alleged class difference come from? There are many valid criticisms of YouTube/IG stars, but is Michelle Phan really lower-middle class compared to say Nicki Minaj?! Because lots of the private-school mums I know are more than happy to watch Michelle Phan with their daughters but ban Nicki Minaj.
    - mahyarm 9y ago
      By class I meant income level, not culture. In the past being a profitable artist meant superstardom or poverty, with a rare few in between with middle class incomes. Now with Youtube/patreon, there is a good chunk of 'middle class artists' that are developing today that didn't exist in the numbers that these platforms created.
- arkitaip 9y ago
  "The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." -- Some Greek Guy, like really long time ago.
  - point78 9y ago
    Too funny, literally since the beginning of time every generation has been complaining about "those damn kids"!!
  - barsonme 9y ago
    I'm just relaying the perceptions of a teacher who's been teaching children since the '80s ;-)
  - shpx 9y ago
    [This quote] was crafted by a student, Kenneth John Freeman, for his Cambridge dissertation published in 1907. https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/01/misbehaving-children-in-ancient-times/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/01/misbehaving-childre...
    - ringaroundthetx 9y ago
      Still aging quite well to show the relativity (or constant) of people's perceptions
- toast0 9y ago
  > The last couple years she's had a very significant number of her students say "YouTube or Instagram star" When I was growing up, lots of people wanted to be Movie/TV stars. I think YouTube stardom has lowered the barrier to making being vapid a carrier choice.
- derefr 9y ago
  Is wanting to be a YouTube channel host really a marker of vanity? It's essentially saying that you want to be an actor, scriptwriter, director and entrepreneur for your own television series. It's the "solo app developer" equivalent for the entertainment industry. Like app developers, I would expect people to get into the business more out of a desire for freedom to set their own hours and not have a boss, than out of a desire to be seen. Except where programming is for introverts, screenwriting and acting comes more naturally to extroverts. Basically, I see the "YouTube biz" as being much like stand-up comedy, but without the travelling.
  - barsonme 9y ago
    I can agree with the extrovert/autonomy part. To this, though > Is wanting to be a YouTube channel host really a marker of vanity? I'd say it's a good indicator. Not every channel will be like https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4mLlRa_dezwvytudo9s1sw https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4mLlRa_dezwvytudo9s1sw or https://www.youtube.com/user/TheBackyardScientist https://www.youtube.com/user/TheBackyardScientist with funny or informative skits. Sometimes I'll open the 'search' part of Instagram and just scroll through the posts and wonder how so many people have their own brands when all the do is post selfies. I'd totally do it if I could. But it's definitely vanity.
    - irahul 9y ago
      > I'd totally do it if I could. This seems like the root of your issue. > But it's definitely vanity. The only people to use vanity as an insult are people who have nothing to be vain about. Do you cover your grays? Do you wear flattering clothes? Do you buy nice phones? Why bother? It's all vain shit.
      - derefr 9y ago
        There are two usages to the word "vanity." The one you're referring to has more to do with dignity (the desire to be respected by everybody.) The property under scrutiny by the parent poster, though, is (I think) more like "narcissism"—the desire to be perceived as the best person ever by as many people as possible. The desire for dignity is universal; whereas narcissism is a (rather uncommon) personality flaw.
- remarkEon 9y ago
  >I'm really glad our country is at place where being funny on a social media website is enough to make a good living, but I can't help but feel there's something missing—something keeping them grounded. I am the opposite of "glad" about this. It's highly concerning to me. My sister is also a school teacher and her students are just 4th graders and see this as legitimate life goals. Think of how that forms the development of a young child.
  - irahul 9y ago
    > Think of how that forms the development of a young child. It depends. Option 1: "Hey buddy. So you want to be a youtube star. Which ones you like? The funny ones? The lifters? The fashion vloggers? It's actually a lot of work. You will need a script, a cameraman, a director, actors etc. And all said and done, for every youtube star, there are tens of thousands who just toil in obscurity. But that's a risk which comes with a lot of life's decisions and you can decide later on if you really want to do it or if you want to do it part time. Back to the production process. It's not very different from what we do in our school's theater except that there is a massive potential increase in your reach. Why don't you try coming up with a concept and I can walk you through the iterations it takes for the final product. We can even try to schedule a screening for the class and put it on youtube." Option 2: "Youtube star? SMH. What has become of today's generation?"
  - dingaling 9y ago
    > and see this as legitimate life goals. Well at least it is a goal. When I was in secondary school in the UK ( mid-1980s ) career guidance was just being introduced as a concept. I think it was a couple of half-hour sessions one year and then being left with a folder of job descriptions. So most of us in my year left school and picked a university course without having any career goal or aspiration. I am mid-40s now and still don't know what I want to do but unfortunately it is too late for many opportunities. I have a good friend who was the school sports champion and even she just fell into an unrelated career by accident. If kids today want to be YouTube stars then that's great, hopefully it will give them an objective and a reason to study particular subjects instead of "the teacher seems nice" or "I need to pick one subject from that category"
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  > "YouTube or Instagram star" instead of the usual firefighter/police officer/doctor/soldier/etc...disturbing trend Does your mother moralise her second graders' choices like this? (I'd guess not.) The number of people helped or even saved by movement leaders or other cultural icons can easily exceed the contributions of the public sector roles you described. I don't see why "Instagram star" is that different from "movie star" or "astronaut" for that matter. (It certainly seems better than "football player.")
  - barsonme 9y ago
    I don't think it's moralizing to acknowledge that certain career choices lend themselves to vanity. I mean, we can come up with other less-than-desirable traits for other careers like programming, can't we?
- jedberg 9y ago
  Just replace Youtube Star with Movie star. At least growing up in LA, lots of my friends wanted to be movie stars and rock stars. Some of them actually are now. They apparently provide value to someone, because they make millions of dollars.
  - inimino 9y ago
    > They apparently provide value to someone, because they make millions of dollars. I would be careful with that kind of reasoning.
    - fooker 9y ago
      That is more or less the definition of providing value.
      - michaelt 9y ago
        Bernie Madoff made millions of dollars without producing any value. I don't think making millions of dollars is the definition of producing value.
      - TeMPOraL 9y ago
        That is the definition of providing monetary value to someone, not actual value to society. The two are correlated, but weakly.
- urspx 9y ago
  >he last couple years she's had a very significant number of her students say "YouTube or Instagram star" instead of the usual firefighter/police officer/doctor/soldier/etc. To be fair, I'd rather be a youtube star than a professional murderer, too.
  - KGIII 9y ago
    Which one of those professions is a professional murderer?
    - arkadiytehgraet 9y ago
      At the very least - police officer and soldier.
      - KGIII 9y ago
        Murder is unlawful killing. Neither of those are professional murderers, by default. Some have murdered, but that's not usually why we hire them.
- pmontra 9y ago
  I guess it's hard to ascend to stardom. What's the ratio between stars and non stars? Stars have to stand among other people. If everybody is a star nobody is. Those kids are going to be as deluded as every past generation or are looking forward to a more difficult battle.
  - interstitial 9y ago
    When dealing with social ratios, the safest bet is 20% of the stars get 80% of the views. If it were otherwise, someone should write a paper, it would be huge news.
- pjc50 9y ago
  > I can't help but feel there's something missing Expectations of livable pay from those jobs? Favourable media presentation of them? Is it vanity or just adapting to the new economy?
- doldge 9y ago
  This is tangential, but I believe vanity has been increasing with every generation for a while now. Each generation is more vain then the generation that came before it. I don't know if that statement holds beyond the last 100 years, but certainly it does till then. I would chalk it up to being the result of the communications expansion, with each year our audience increases (by virtue of our increasing ability to travel the world, and by the ever expanding internet), and with that expanding audience comes a desire for us to be liked by the greatest number of them, which involves out-competing everyone else.
  - jrimbault 9y ago
    Or it's just an illusion. https://xkcd.com/1227/ https://xkcd.com/1227/ The only "valid" (imo) complaint in this comic is in 1905: >"The profession of letters is so little understood" I wish the humanities played a larger role in our engineered society. I see a lot of technical people who've never read Popper (which is relevant to technical fields) or any other philosopher (which are always good reading, or at least interesting).

princeb 9y ago

they will create a rapidly evolving and flourishing entertainment industry, of which globally, america has the largest. this in turn boosts growth in related industries fashion, marketing, online retail, and of these the US is probably also the largest in all three.

justicezyx 9y ago
I am not sure how much you really see what the OP is asking... The OP is asking, what will happen when a generation of human are indulged in useless idols. Then you continue to describe an industry out of useless idols and their fans... Hack, I am not surprised by this type of apparently startlingly myopic vision of human society. It seems everything is just for profit. No matter how stupid the thing is, if there is a chance for profit, then go for it. In the end, who can answer the simple question: Who create the value to drive the profit?
- sjg007 9y ago
  The value is the entertainment escape (dopamine rush) that meme or idol generates in your synapses. Typically a YouTube idol has to have done something interesting e.g. Music etc.. so it's a creative space. Cat chez burgers was a big meme factory at one point doing millions. Buy an ad and your customer might remember it. Create a meme and you live forever.
eksemplar 9y ago
Entertainment isn't really an industry though. It produces nothing of real value and relies on being financed by those who do. There is a reason Bollywood is a more profitable "industry" than Hollywood, and it's not because their product is better. It's because their society actually nets a profit from production that they can then spend on leisure. If our best and brightest young children become internet celebrities because it made good sense, then there won't be anyone to keep the gears grinding. Worse than that, on instagram you're still the product being sold even when you're then one being followed.
- PhasmaFelis 9y ago

fleitz 9y ago

They'll get old and then complain about the new generation doing the same thing. Just like those geezers in The Clash complained about 'phoney beatle mania'

NTDF9 9y ago

There are a few kids who end up gaining success out of vanity. But so so so many kids destroy their lives chasing popularity. Looks like more and more kids will learn it the hard way.

econner 9y ago

I doubt things have changed that much. Certain individuals are more visible now, but I'm sure there are still plenty of people who are not obsessed with these things.

ikeyany 9y ago

They'll keep the psychiatrists employed for decades, wondering why internet fame isn't fulfilling.

pravda 9y ago
Is any kind of fame fulfilling?
- ikeyany 9y ago
  Of course. Though it depends on what you were looking to get out of it.
irahul 9y ago
> wondering why internet fame isn't fulfilling. I feel internet fame is more fulfilling than being a nobody slaving in a 9-5 job. And there is also easy endorsement money which comes with the fame.
- ikeyany 9y ago
  I would agree that in itself, working 9-5 is unfulfilling. But most people see work as a means to a more fulfilling end.
  - irahul 9y ago
    I don't have a particular affinity towards or against insta influencers or youtube stars. I just find the comments amusing. "I am so much better than insta influencers because, uh, I have a job? I don't seek validation from strangers? I am not sure but I sure know that they are the downfall of the humanity"
    - ikeyany 9y ago
      I think generally yes, we as a society look down on those who are starved enough for attention and validation to constantly need it from strangers. That's pretty much how society has always been.

bduerst 9y ago

I was reading an SCP involving memetic viruses and couldn't help but think about how much internet memes drown out the chance to read newer content. /get off my lawn

jedberg 9y ago

You mean like movie stars? We've had at least four generations now obsessed with movie stars. It's also been the century of greatest achievement for humankind. Correlation isn't causation though. :)

jonahx 9y ago
> You mean like movie stars? Looks get you in the door here, but the large majority of movie stars are experts in a legitimate art form -- acting.
- jonknee 9y ago
  What do you think social media celebrities are doing?
  - jonahx 9y ago
    So you don't see a difference between, say, kim kardashian's instagram feed and what a top hollywood actress does?
    - justboxing 9y ago
      > So you don't see a difference between Nope. There is no difference. @jonknee is right. I once met this camera grip boy at a boxing fight watch here in San Francisco. He worked at various sets in L.A., very close to the filming. He would say how he was on Kim Kardashian's "Reality Show" and how the whole thing was completely scripted for shock effect, drama etc. He said "They'd sometime do retakes and tell Kim - "This time yell at your sister louder, and then throw in a I hate you B*tch at the end." They are all actors. The only difference I see is hollywood actors are elite level, having gone to school, and experienced and top notch, whereas the likes of Kim Kardashian, that Jersey Shores girl are low end trash, but both types make a ton of money on 2 different medium - the former in big screen, the latter on fake "Reality TV shows", and social media (where they get paid to promote crap).
      - 9y ago

erikb 9y ago

You think this is different from previous generations? Please. Every generation is like that when they are around 14.

tw04 9y ago
Correct. But previous generations didn't have adults catering to 14 year olds either. Can you imagine Walter Cronkite quoting "@hotmom2277 says Vietnam sucks realz badz y0" on the nightly news? Me either...
- erikb 9y ago
  Of course they had. Who do you think worked at MTV back in the day? These were all 30+ years old acting like they were 14 themselves and making good money with it. It just feels natural if all you know is how to act like a 14 year old and haven't been 30 yet to see how weird it looks from the other side of the table.
  - tw04 9y ago
    MTV wasn't considered a serious news outlet at any point in history. Comparing an entertainment channel from 30 years ago to legitimate journalists is a pretty poor comparison - ignoring the fact MTV didn't exist until years after the Vietnam war was over.
bluthru 9y ago
>Every generation is like that when they are around 14. Who were the "idols who don't contribute anything to society" up until the 1940s when "teenagers" were invented? In the grand scheme of things this is still a very recent phenomenon.
- nl 9y ago
  Our sires' age was worse than our grandsires'. We, their sons, are more worthless than they; so in our turn we shall give the world a progeny yet more corrupt Horace, 20 BC

type-2 9y ago

Good guess

majani 9y ago

If you go back as far as Socrates, he was against the youth reading books in an age where intellectuals were known for reciting literature by heart. So yes, you are just old and grumpy.

irahul 9y ago

> who don't contribute anything to society aside from memes, hot bodies and various rants Just like all other mediums of popular media.

swang 9y ago

almost every "old" generation says this about the "new" generation. you can go back and look at articles and magazines that say the same thing about your generation. and when i say "your generation" i don't even know which "generation" you are. it doesn't matter since most likely there's been a negative article written about your age group regardless of how old you actually are.

rowyourboat 9y ago
Socrates famously complained about the lack of the youth's manners and respect.
odiroot 9y ago
I tend to be really careful with this generational judgement. I'm 30 myself and I find a lot about my parents' generations to be good and naturally a lot bad things as well. Now I'm frequently really tired of my generation (Gen Y, I guess) and, surprisingly, find recently that I'm really hopeful about Gen Z. They're like more polished version of us. Maybe it's an effect of growing up in post-financial-crisis world.
- jpetso 9y ago
  Nah, they just haven't had the time and opportunity to gain and abuse power, or to become disillusioned. They'll be just as questionable as ourselves when they're our age. In different ways.

k-mcgrady 9y ago

>> I wonder what will happen to a generation obsessed with idols who don't contribute anything to society Unlike the previous couple of generations who contributed a global financial crisis, multiple unnecessary wars, massive environmental destruction, and a rising wave of racism and populism. See, I can pick and choose things too.

mezuzi 9y ago
The previous too generations didn't have a "milo" preaching family values!!
- zardo 9y ago
  That's right! They had entirely different right wing celebrities preaching family values.

blubb-fish 9y ago

> But I guess I'm just old and grumpy. No, I think you have a point.

whipoodle 9y ago

To paraphrase Frank Zappa, pheeeeeeuw.