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Robocalls Flooding Your Cellphone? Here’s How to Stop Them

215 points by gk1 9y ago

an_account 9y ago
I get at least one call a week now. Always from the same area code, often one a few digits off from my number. I wonder how long it will take for the goverment to start enforcing the do not call registry laws. What’s the threshold of annoyance before it’s worth spending taxpayer money to enforce?
- sgloutnikov 9y ago
  Same thing happens to me at least once per week. They spoof the Caller ID to be the area code and first 3 digits of my number.
  - tzs 9y ago
    If you are seeing spoofed numbers from your area code/prefix, there is also a good chance that others in that area code/prefix might be getting calls with your number as the spoofed number. I talked to someone who received such a call when he star-69'ed it.
    - ghaff 9y ago
      Right. And then, if the carrier pursues really aggressive enforcement, they end up making false positive mistakes with no way for the affected individual to remediate them.
- ams6110 9y ago
  The laws are basically unenforcable. The carriers could do something about it. I'd consider switching service to a carrier that demonstrated they block these kinds of calls. Just like a big part of gmail's popularity is how effectively they block spam.
  - com2kid 9y ago
    > The carriers could do something about it. I'd consider switching service to a carrier that demonstrated they block these kinds of calls. T-Mobile blocks a lot of spam callers, but they do not seem to block these spoofed caller ID calls. Thankfully these spoofed calls are so easy to spot that they aren't even a real annoyance to me.
    - DrScump 9y ago
      On my T-Mobile GS7, most such callers are recognized and given a "Scam Likely" caller-id label.
      - posguy 9y ago
        How does the phone model even play into this? Odd of you to mention it.
        DrScump 9y ago
        It doesn't occur on my GS5s.
        smudgymcscmudge 9y ago
        The difference may be the t-mobile account instead of the phone. IIRC, they are rolling the "Scam Likely" feature out starting with t-mobile one plans.
        masonic 9y ago
        In my case, all 5 phones are on the same plan and account.
jbryson3 9y ago
Largely unhelpful article. Summary: - yes there are more robocalls - Don't pick up - Put your number on do not call list - Get an app to block them
- foobarian 9y ago
  I like to pick up so I can decide for myself if it's a spam call. If it is, it gets blocked and reported (Android). Not sure if Google does anything with the report but at least it is tagged on the next call in.
  - viraptor 9y ago
    > If it is, it gets blocked The numbers are often spoofed, so you'll end up blocking some random local numbers instead.
    - distortedsignal 9y ago
      Two stories about this - Once in 2014, I got a spam call that spoofed my own number. This week, I got a spam call that spoofed the number of a family member. Don't block without being sure.
      - stevewillows 9y ago
        For the past few years the odd spam call I get has been my number with one digit changed. This came as a surprise when my ex-wife's phone number popped up. I didn't realize it was spam until I listened to the voicemail re: the cruise I won.
    - foobarian 9y ago
      I noticed I end up with a pretty high hit-rate; maybe 1/2 of calls come in already tagged. Maybe I'm just lucky the volume is low enough to answer the calls; if they happened more often it wouldn't be practical.
      - 9y ago
thomastruett 9y ago
Check out quitcalling.us
- yoda_sl 9y ago
  Just a landing page and no info on who is working on this service... doesn’t make me confident.
yoda_sl 9y ago
As I did mention a month or so ago in a post related to robocall I decided myself to tackle a solution to help fight those calls. I am still working on it as a side project, and 90% of the backend system is done, and probably 50% of the iPhone app done (considering to add Android support later). It will add a twist on the way to fight such calls do it has at least a feature that differentiate it from similar apps. If anyone will want to help beta test when it is ready (require an iPhone with iOS 10 or 11), ping me! (Email info in profile)
- wizardforhire 9y ago
  I'm interested in helping you finish the iPhone app and potentially the android app also as a side project. I don't know how much good I'll be on the back end but I'm open to talk through ideas and help where possible. No money or really even credit needed. I just really think robocalls need a proactive easy to use cross platform solution. That and I want to get better at everything while doing as much good in the process.
- hueving 9y ago
  Can you give a hint of what it does differently than the current "report spam"/"suspected spam caller" feature of Android?
  - yoda_sl 9y ago
    Not right now, since it is one of the aspect where my app will be different than other app.
100k 9y ago
I have had the same phone number for 15 years, and I have been getting A LOT of robocalls lately. I tried stopping them with NoMoRobo on iOS. It worked OK, but it can't match "Unknown caller" or blocked numbers, which made it kind of worthless for me. Sigh.
- ziziyO 9y ago
  Nomorobo has been hit/miss for me. 75% on catching robocalls, and I've had a false positive that belonged to a caller I wanted to talk to. I'm not enthusiastic about the results, but will be continuing to use it.
- russdill 9y ago
  Really wish stock android had an easy way of blocking all calls/notifications from callers without caller ID information.
  - boot13 9y ago
    I was just poking around in the settings for my new Android phone and found Settings > Applications > Phone > Call blocking > Block list > Block anonymous calls. Would that be helpful at all? I haven't tested it myself.
    - russdill 9y ago
      No such luck. Menu structure is different and dialer does not have that option (stock 7.1.2)
yairhaimo 9y ago
Lenny - Recordings of an hilarious spam-buster. Great way to pass the time: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLduL71_GKzHHk4hLga0nOGWrXlhl-i_3g http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLduL71_GKzHHk4hLga0nOG...
smarks 9y ago
TL;DR Don't pick up calls from unfamiliar numbers. It did help confirm a sneaking suspicion I've had, which is that robocalls spoof a caller ID number with your area code and prefix, to make it seem more familiar. Stories about people who manipulate telemarketers are amusing, and mobile minutes are mostly no longer scarce, but who has the time? Time and attention are the scarcest resources.
- greenyoda 9y ago
  "robocalls spoof a caller ID number with your area code and prefix, to make it seem more familiar" I discovered this pattern from robocalls on my cell phone. But it has exactly the opposite effect as intended: since I don't know anyone who has the same area code and prefix I do[1], I have 100% confidence that any call with a number like that is spam. And if I don't recognize the area code, or it's from a toll-free area code, it's also spam with 100% confidence. Fortunately, it's very rare for the spammers to leave a voicemail when I don't answer. [1] My city has 7 area codes and thousands of cellular prefixes - the odds of meeting someone with the same area+prefix are slim.
  - enobrev 9y ago
    Same for me, since my phone number is more than a decade old and I haven't lived in the city where I obtained the number since 2012. I know people with numbers in the same area code, but definitely not with the same prefix. That said, just about every actual person I know texts before calling, if at least to check when might be a good time to call. Almost nobody calls outright, and if they do and I don't answer, there's always a follow-up text. The same code and prefix thing really seems to have picked up significantly in the last couple months. I have an app that catches most known spam calls, but tends to let these through, which I assume is one of the the underlying reasons for this type of spoofing.
- russdill 9y ago
  Surely telcos can do something to block calls coming from sources that don't own the number they are providing as caller id. Internet provides started doing this years ago with alien packets.
familyit 9y ago
Oh the joys of government systems. I received this when verifying my number is on the do not call list. "Due to system difficulties, your request was not processed. Please try your request again later or call 1-888-382-1222 to submit your request by phone. We are sorry that we are unable to process your request at this time."
Waterluvian 9y ago
I have never once had an unsolicited call on my cell phone number. I suspected it was because I simply never use it as a phone (data and text only) and therefore somehow stayed off the radar. This seems to validate that thought. It's been an interesting decade, that's for sure. The whole world kind of expects you to have a phone number if you want to do business. Some people are confused, but more often than not it's their software or processes that insist I give a phone number. I leased a car recently and not giving out a number was perplexing to the sales Dept. I explained that I simply don't have one. They ultimately still wanted my business. I wasn't so lucky with getting a credit card.
- smellf 9y ago
  Your suspicion is correct. Your number gets out there because you give it out, and then 10 years later the company goes under and liquidates their assets which includes a load of customer phone numbers; or because you give it out when you open a credit card or buy a mortgage or car, and you legally can't limit the sharing of your personal info to third parties, who can share your personal info as widely as they want... point is, not having a phone number will be tantamount to not having a social security number in many situations.
  - EADGBE 9y ago
    > point is, not having a phone number will be tantamount to not having a social security number in many situations. I think a phone number is shifting to be a replacement for social security numbers in customer databases. My grocery store/gas station relationship, Guitar Center, jewelry store, and oil/lube service station. And that's just the last week-or-so interactions. They don't know my social, but they're using my phone as a primary key for their rewards/lookup.
    - jclardy 9y ago
      Maybe I'm too young, but why would any retail merchant ask for a social security number? The only people I give that out to are banks.
deleted 9y ago
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alister 9y ago
A great observation by tacostakohashi a year ago was that "peak telephone" was the mid-1990s and its success is what kills it, following the same pattern as postal mail, fax, email, usenet, and facebook: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12551566 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12551566
- smellf 9y ago
  Now you can often get so much more done talking to online chat for whatever utility or organization. I guess it's only a matter of time before you're talking to a robot there too (or is it happening already?) So have we perhaps reached "peak communication"? At least until the direct neural implant, when we can express or receive the information we need by joining minds. But then will there be frustrating computer minds that we have to interface with?
  - posguy 9y ago
    You think emailing or chatting your common utility will get your change order processed in a reasonable timeframe? I've got bad news for you, knowing a few people who work at local utilities, those emails you send in get to sit for months in some cases before being processed, meanwhile an order put in when you call in gets processed within days. Many utilities just opened up the floodgates to email and other forms of customer service, without adding any staff to handle said workload, hence the severe backlog at many of these utilities. Same deal with meter readers, most utilities have stopped hiring them because within 2 to 3 years, the utility will have a new smart meter system implemented across the board, and they'd rather not fire a whole team outright. Letting the employees churn without replacing them is much less dramatic.
basicplus2 9y ago
Easiest way to deal with this is never say anything when you pick up.. the line just goes dead after a few seconds if it's a robo call
legohead 9y ago
I noticed the uptick in spam calls as well, even though my phone has been on the do not call list for years. I changed my voicemail recording to: "You've reached the law offices of X and Y, please leave a message..." It seems to have worked so far.
- Johnny555 9y ago
  The only time spammers leave me voicemail, it's an automated recording, I doubt any human spammer is evening listening to your "law offices of..." voicemail recording.
- EADGBE 9y ago
  You're probably just confusing the poor sap trying to get a hold of you about your lab test results. Might want to make sure they haven't hung up thinking wrong number.
ChuckMcM 9y ago
One of the sad things that broke when number porting became a thing was there was no definitive answer of which phones were cell phones and which were land lines. This was unfortunate because if you were called on your cell phone for a long time it would cost you money, and if someone called in an unsolicited way, you had 'damages' that you could sue for on the theory that they knew it was a cell phone and they called it anyway. Now however they have reasonable doubt and so they call whenever. I wrote the FCC once and suggested that a good use of some of those fees I pay would be to create a service that would instantly back trace and log a complaint on a number using telemetry from inside the phone system. That combined with a federal criminal statute which allowed for jail time for masking the origin of a phone call and I think you could make to fairly costly for the owners and enablers of this stuff.
- ddurkin 9y ago
  Databases already exist which identify cell-phone vs landline. https://www.neustar.biz/risk/compliance-solutions/tcpa https://www.neustar.biz/risk/compliance-solutions/tcpa
- ukmobile 9y ago
  In the UK, all mobile numbers start with "07". Simple solution to this problem.
  - iampims 9y ago
    Until you run out of numbers starting with 07? France started with 06 and is now using 07… but 08 is already taken for some other purposes.
    - smellf 9y ago
      What does it matter if the numbers are contiguous? Just keep allocating space for mobile numbers.
    - Nexxxeh 9y ago
      Then existing 07x numbers would be made 071x numbers, and repeat. But the existing 07x range is effectively 9 digits long, (with a few chunks out of it) so we're probably good for a while. We've not started 072 and barely touched 076 (and 071 is currently unused but that's sensible if the existing might ever be bumped to start 071). Our population count is a good way way away from being 9 digits. Already (because of number porting) you have numbers from networks now home in the middle of number ranges of their competitors. But I think we're more likely to see a separation of number/device before that 071x happens. Devices or SIMs will have an IPv6 address and your number is separate but accessible. Time will tell.
ikeboy 9y ago
>One recent scheme involves getting consumers to say “yes” and later using a recording of the response to allow unauthorized charges on the person’s credit card account, the F.C.C. warned in March. I doubt banks are using voice recognition on the single word "yes" to verify charges. Does this make any sense?
- adventured 9y ago
  That's a case where it has happened a small number of times, complaints were filed, the FCC & Co. picked up on the scam, and they view it as their responsibility to keep the public safe so they generalize. Although I suppose given the speed at which AI is improving, the roboscammers will be utilizing more and more advanced methods soon when it comes to voice sample manipulation. Most of this criminal activity is coming from outside the US, courtesy of Twilio & Co. having turned the phone number system into an API such that it's now easy to rapidly buy and ditch numbers for cheap. The only practical solution for the end-user point is to insert greater intelligence into the system at the carrier level or at the phone level. We're facing a problem where very large numbers of phone numbers will be black listed given enough time, unless we insert a greater cost into the system to make the spamming unprofitable (or make it much harder to get a phone number via services like Twilio). The US could try targeting the criminal organizations and individuals operating these scams on the other end; of course that's expensive and slow, and those people will just keep popping up so long as it's easy to do and profitable. The improving and cheapening AI will make it more and more profitable, as the scammers learn to snake into new, more lucrative financial outlets using authentications / identities they steal.
  - icebraining 9y ago
    Why would they need Twillio et all to give them new numbers, if as everyone (including in this thread) says they can spoof the number, even showing as the receiver's number itself?
lsiebert 9y ago
The responses here are only addressing the symptom. You want to stop robocalling, make it stop earning the callers money.
- lsiebert 9y ago
  I wonder, incidentally, if stopping it at the banking/money transfer level would be effective.
  - adventured 9y ago
    It's a whack-a-mole problem. You could never move quickly enough in the banking world to squash how this thing works. The methods are going to get more and more advanced, as AI tech gets better very rapidly in the next few years. The carriers, FCC, and banking system are entirely unprepared for what's coming next. If you really wanted to smash it, make it harder for the roboscammers to abuse the relatively new API systems of inexpensively buying phone numbers in the US market. That either has to occur at Twilio & Co's level or it will have to be government action. If Twilio & Co are smart, they'll get on this soon rather than allowing their business to be destroyed by heavy handed or inept government moves. There are few things more ripe for bad and unintended outcomes than the US government moving rapidly into something they don't understand in the name of safe guarding the people.
    - dredmorbius 9y ago
      You'd be surprised at how quickly adaptive fraud detection systems can work.
      - lsiebert 9y ago
        I wonder how quickly phone companies would shut down people if they faced a meaningful financial penalty.
        dredmorbius 9y ago
boardwalker 9y ago
Telcos should answer all calls to unregistered numbers with robots of their own. Simple way to prevent spammers from finding real people.
kilburn 9y ago
It amazes me that most of you don't question the fact that you (north americans?) are paying to receive phone calls. Here (Spain, but I think it applies to all the euro zone) we just do not pay to receive calls, which seems much more sensible to me. How would you feel if some random mailguy knocked at your door and when you opened it he threw a package at your hands and immediately charged you for (part of) the delivery? This is exactly how charging to receive phone calls feels to me! How do telcos justify this to you? What's the reasoning behind it?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- ajhurliman 9y ago
  It's either a paltry amount of money to accept a call, or completely free (unlimited talk). Data is what costs the real money.
  - PietdeVries 9y ago
    What kilburn is referring to is that the business model that telco's use more or less stimulate this type of calls. If a telemarketeer has to pay for setting up a call, rather than the end-user for accepting it (no matter how small the charge is), then placing millions of automated calls all over a sudden start costing money to the marketeer. Think of it: the caller has the will to talk to someone - why should (at least in the past) this someone pay for that? The Euro-zone does it the other way round: you want to talk, you call, you pay. Either way, in both situations with call volumes going down and people switching to data-type connections you see the price of calling/receiving calls drop sharply and as listed above the money telco's make comes from the data plans.
    - chimeracoder 9y ago
      > If a telemarketeer has to pay for setting up a call, rather than the end-user for accepting it (no matter how small the charge is), then placing millions of automated calls all over a sudden start costing money to the marketeer They do have to pay money; initiating a call isn't free. The receiver has to pay a tiny amount of money if they're not on an unlimited plan, but it's so small that it's not worth considering separately from the annoyance of receiving these calls in the first place.
ThrustVectoring 9y ago
There's only a few people that I want to have the ability to have real-time interrupt-driven access to me. My phone is pretty much always set on do-not-disturb, and those folks are whitelisted through. The only time it's off do-not-disturb is if I'm expecting a call. Otherwise, leave a message or use some other asynchronous way to contact me.
deleted 9y ago
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6d6b73 9y ago
I have slightly different way of dealing with them. I pick up, and either ask them to hold on because I'm outside/on the other line/doing something etc.. or if it's a robot I select option they want me to press to connect to the operator. Next I put them on hold and wait to see how long it takes them to disconnect. Record holder was 7 min 51 sec. When I have time I will also talk to them, feed them incorrect information, put them multiple times on hold etc. This wastes their time and money. Maybe if more people started doing that they it would no longer be profitable. :)
- Faaak 9y ago
  Exactly. I did the same in Europe and calls lowered.
darkmagnus 9y ago
I am at the point where I no longer answer my phone if it isn't one of my contacts. If it is important, they will leave a message. I just press the hang up button on my watch immediately, if it shows an unrecognized number, local or not.
- FussyZeus 9y ago
  ^ That's pretty much how I am too, which is insane. Why on Earth is this still such a problem? Surely we can solve it.
  - jerf 9y ago
    It turns out to be really hard to have a medium that A: allows people you have not whitelisted in a advance to contact you and also B: prevents intelligent adversaries from abusing that. There are numerous examples of this: The phone system, the email system, any large IM system that gets beyond a certain size, the physical mail system (reigned in by charges there, though), social networks... It would be easy if the adversaries were not actively using their intelligence to get around whatever solution you think might work. If all the spam phone calls came from the same number, which never moved or changed, this would be easy. But even before you account for the unauthenticated nature of caller ID that allows spammers to trivially forge any number they'd like, the mere fact that they're willing and able to buy up large blocks of numbers and would switch them around a lot would make this a difficult problem. Stopping intelligent, adaptive adversaries willing to dedicate time and resources to this is a very hard problem. You can also attack this problem by trying to hit the first clause I gave, but that creates a very different kind of system. And in general, you need some sort of system that you don't have to prewhitelist people, so that your doctor can call you even though you didn't whitelist them, etc.
    - bluGill 9y ago
      I don't actually need to prevent intelligent adversaries from calling me though - I just need a legal way to go after them if they do. That means I need useful identification. Many of these calls are illegal today, but the law doesn't know how to find them so they get away with it. Anonymous communication is useful, but it has been abused enough that I want to opt-out of it.
davidmurdoch 9y ago
The tips in the article don't work in my case. I do all of them and get about 3-5 robocalls per day. One of the most prolific robo scammers that calls me just about every weekday spoofs their number to match the first 6 digits of my own phone number (area code included).
- lucb1e 9y ago
  > [I] get about 3-5 robocalls per day. Wtf. At that point I'd just get rid of a phone number altogether. Or turn on flight mode (which I modded to be a GSM toggle, so wifi and bluetooth stay on) and turn it off when people ask (via chat) to call.
  - pavel_lishin 9y ago
    > turn it off when people ask (via chat) to call. May I suggest that you guys are in some sort of bubble? My mom's a 60 year old with a flip-phone, and her husband's nephrologist, neurologist and audiologist isn't going to ask her via chat to kindly turn on her phone.
    - lucb1e 9y ago
      I assume they're not on hacker news. I was speaking from a hacker's viewpoint (the person I'm responding to and myself), not for every person on the planet.
      - pavel_lishin 9y ago
        Do hackers not have doctors? Do hackers not have children? Is our daycare going to "chat" me to ask me to turn my phone on if my kid falls down and breaks her arm? Is my doctor going to "chat" me to tell me that the test came back, and that I need to go to the hospital and check myself in right now? Your solution doesn't just not work for some small, irrelevant section of the population like "old people", "parents", or "anyone outside of SV". For that matter, if people are chatting you and asking you to answer the phone, why not just use that app to talk?
dredmorbius 9y ago
"Attorney general's office, criminal complaints investigations, how may I help you?"
- TuringNYC 9y ago
  Impersonation of government officials is a crime, at least in the US. Funny in this case, but not adviseable.
  - BenjiWiebe 9y ago
    If the call center is in India you probably wouldn't get in trouble for it. For that matter, what call center would report you?
    - dredmorbius 9y ago
      "Hello, I'm calling to report an impersonation of a government official." "So, what official was impersonated, exactly?" "Well, not directly ..." "And how did this impersonation happen to come about?" "Well, I was robocalling about a million households all on the Do Not Call Registry ..." I'm not too worried about that risk.
billpg 9y ago
What could someone evil do with a recording of me saying "Yes"? I have a YouTube channel and I've probably said that word in a few of them.
- Sleeep 9y ago
  https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-warns-can-you-hear-me-phone-scams https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-warns-can-you-hear-me-phone... >The scam begins when a consumer answers a call and the person at the end of the line asks, “Can you hear me?” The caller then records the consumer's "Yes" response and thus obtains a voice signature. This signature can later be used by the scammers to pretend to be the consumer and authorize fraudulent charges via telephone. In other words they splice together "do you want to authorize these charges?" And your "Yes" and present this as "proof" to the credit card company you authorized the charges you are disputing.
  - rrauenza 9y ago
    Status unproven: http://www.snopes.com/can-you-hear-me-scam/ http://www.snopes.com/can-you-hear-me-scam/
    - Sleeep 9y ago
      I should have added a caveat, I actually agree with you and I, too, was skeptical of the fact this has been happening. However, since the FCC released an official document about it I figured it was worth mentioning as a theoretical possibility. I am unaware of many cases where the FCC spread urban legends without getting actual complaints, so people presumably have actually been complaining about this happening to them to the FCC, or at least them believing it's happened to them. The "can you hear me" call would have to take place AFTER a scammer had already charged your card for a dubious service. They would (probably?) have to have a merchant account with a payment processor for that.
Shivetya 9y ago
I have been out of the loop for awhile, however in the nineties we had a dial in system at work we used for guards to report when on site and when leaving a site from work. We relied on ANI data from the phone company which contained the actual number the call was placed from. Surely the phone company has this data and could compare it in flight to what is being passed along as the caller id information which I was under the impression is wholly separate data. If anything do so smart phones could see both entries and flag suspicious calls
revmoo 9y ago
The article mentions the DNC registry--I added my phone a couple weeks ago and I've been facing an absolute torrent of spam phone calls. DO NOT add your number to the DNC list. Turns out giving criminals a database of live phone numbers is a bad idea.
Dowwie 9y ago
Google android phones appear to be crowdsourcing countermeasures against spam calls. For instance, I have a Google nexus phone. Often, spam calls are indicated as such in android as I'm receiving a call. For calls that aren't indicated as spam and manage to receive my answer, I hang up and hold my finger down on the number until a menu appears where I can mark a number as spam.
- _asummers 9y ago
  I've been very pleased with this feature. I used to use TrueCall, but giving my call data to yet another third party felt wrong.
pcunite 9y ago
Why do mobile phones not provide the option, "if caller is not in contacts, send immediately to voice mail". Seems like a simple check box.
- czep 9y ago
  Both Android and iOS have "Do Not Disturb" features which almost accomplish this. On my Android phone, the "Priority only" setting will silence any calls from outside your contacts list. It would be ideal to be able to send directly to VM, but this option definitely minimizes the distraction. I have it enabled 24/7, except when I know I'm expecting a call from an unknown number.
  - brixon 9y ago
    I use the "Mr. Number" app on Android to accomplish this. I have found that straight to VM instead of silencing the phone actually reduces the number of calls I get.
- bluGill 9y ago
  Because there are too many legitimate callers who you don't have in your contacts. I don't have the lab my doctor uses in my contacts. My doctor may not even use the same lab for different procedures.
  - ianferrel 9y ago
    Legitimate callers will leave a voicemail.
    - bluGill 9y ago
      And then we spend days playing phone tag...
      - ianferrel 9y ago
        I add them to my contacts so I answer it the next time...
lucb1e 9y ago
Aren't unsolicited, electronic commercial messages illegal, or is calling somehow different from email? As a Dutchman I've never received a call like that. Only once a text message (about 7 months ago), and I highly suspect that one was just sent by my ISP on the advertiser's behalf.
- pavel_lishin 9y ago
  You can opt out, which makes them illegal, but they're not going to prosecute an India-based company.
  - bradleyjg 9y ago
    How would I even find the right entity to sue. All I have is a spoofed number.
    - mhb 9y ago
      Ask the NSA
    - HankB99 9y ago
      Therein lie the problem. The caller ID system was not designed with the thought that callers might spoof numbers. I think it's time to revise the signaling protocols to make this not possible. If it is a world wide problem and the parties outside the US (my area of concern) choose not to support this, then make the companies that refuse to support this responsible for any fines that accrue from illegal calls. I think this might motivate them to help solve the problem. And FWIW I'm also in the group that doesn't answer calls that are not linked to my contacts. I have also noticed that the spoofed numbers use my area code, exchange and even a jumble of the last 4 digits to get my attention.
      - bluGill 9y ago
        We don't even have to worry about overseas. Get the US and Canada on board (likely easy to get Canada on board) and at least all spoofed numbers will be from obviously foreign locations (or Mexico?). Those calls can be safely ignored for most people.
jmuguy 9y ago
Just a note of caution about Jolly Roger (http://www.jollyrogertelco.com/ http://www.jollyrogertelco.com/), I used to love forwarding spam calls to them. However, since you have to pick up the call to loop Jolly Roger in - the automated system might mark you for repeat calls. For instance I answered a call about student debt repayment or whatever to forward the call and since then I've been getting at least a few calls a week from different numbers about it as well as text messages.
- pavel_lishin 9y ago
  That's bad for you, but good for everyone else - it's tying up their lines, and hopefully wasting human time.
- johnwaynedoe 9y ago
  I use Jolly Rodger as well and love it. I think you're correct about picking up the call getting you added to a list. When that happens I just go on the offensive. I call them back and forward the call over to Jolly Rodger multiple times. I have been blacklisted by every call center that I've done this with.
caleblloyd 9y ago
I had been receiving many spam calls and downloaded the Truecaller app. It crowdsources spam caller information and does a good job of notifying you if a call is spam.
pavel_lishin 9y ago
These are great bits of advice - for people with smartphones. What's my mom supposed to do? She visited here for a week, owns a flip phone, and gets - at minimum - a dozen calls a day. We spent a whole day together, I counted. The majority of them come from a single number, and apparently Verizon refuses to block it permanently without being paid a fee.
- dabber 9y ago
  The only advice mentioned that is smartphone specific is the app suggestion. The rest are things like don't answer and register on the donotcall list which can be done with a rotary phone. As for Verizon not blocking the number without charging you. Why not just switch?
  - tgb 9y ago
    Yeah if only the do not call list worked...
    - bluGill 9y ago
      It doesn't work, but you should register anyway and report all instances. The people who maintain that list and abuses of it need to know how badly it is ignored. They need data on how big the problem really is. If they get only a few reports of it not working, well that is statistical noise and can be ignored. If everyone on the list constantly reports unwanted calls that is data that it isn't working and a sign they need to do something about it. One obvious thing they can do about it is pressure the phone companies to stop allowing caller id spoofing. It isn't hard, if the number is from North America, then the phone companies verify it (if it is from a cell phone overseas they have verified the phone and should have verified the owner of the phone), otherwise it is fraud. Caller id spoofing exists so companies with a private switch can have a bunch of different phones have the same number- but the phone company knows what numbers the company is allowed to use so the rest can be filtered. Mind you the above will take a few years to implement. However nobody is working on it because if even one party that needs to do work doesn't the whole thing falls apart.
empath75 9y ago
I think a simple way to fix it would be to charge someone an extra fee the first time they dial a number, and transfer most of that money as a debit on the callees bill. It wouldn't take much to make robocalls unprofitable.
forgotAgain 9y ago
The only way this stops is for the FCC to direct backbone providers to block non-US IP addresses that flood people with these calls.
gregorymichael 9y ago
Nomorobo (http://nomorobo.com http://nomorobo.com) is great for this too on iOS. Fun fact about Aaron Foss, who started Nomorobo: In 2014 he was invited to testify to the FCC on his efforts to fight robocalling. To drive home the magnitude of the issue, he printed the anonymized call logs for the 15M calls blocked by NomoRobo, and bought the 25 boxes of printouts with him to the floor. https://www.wired.com/2015/01/guy-found-way-block-robocalls-phone-companies-wouldnt/ https://www.wired.com/2015/01/guy-found-way-block-robocalls-...
- mmcconnell1618 9y ago
  Nomorobo is $1.99 per-month per-device! Why should I have to pay for the phone company not being able to screen out caller ID spoofers. This is a failure of the phone company and the technology.
  - heimatau 9y ago
    I agree, it is a little pricy. Cost comes down over time. I don't know of any other service that is doing this at the moment. I hope within a year or so, we find an open source solution to this.
- heimatau 9y ago
  It's a bummer that it's a monthly service but $2 a month isn't bad to end the issue of robocallers. Thanks for the link. This is very helpful.
- LogicX 9y ago
  Nice to see fellow TechStars Alum, Aaron's company Nomorobo mentioned. Aaron and his team work hard to have a strong service for those bothered enough to want a solution.
- CWuestefeld 9y ago
  I think the charges are just for cell phones. For my home VoIP phone with simultaneous ringing, the service is free.
lotsofpulp 9y ago
If you have AT&T, try the AT&T Call Protect app: https://www.att.com/features/security-apps.html https://www.att.com/features/security-apps.html
- albedoa 9y ago
  The insane thing about this app is it still allows some numbers through that they have identified as "severe threats". So AT&T are allowing known severe threats to go through. The app works pretty well most of the time. I just can't wrap my head around this decision unless maybe there is lag between their identification of a number as a threat and their ability to block it.
  - lotsofpulp 9y ago
    They might be playing it safe letting the calls still ring your phone, instead of auto blocking. I've had a call show up labeled Telemarketer, but I actually was expecting that call (from Dish TV billing), so I just let them go to voicemail and if they do leave me a message then I know it was a legit call.
- EADGBE 9y ago
  Thanks for the link! Looks like it's powered by Hiya and requires AT&T HD Voice. https://www.att.com/shop/wireless/features/hd-voice.html https://www.att.com/shop/wireless/features/hd-voice.html
qrbLPHiKpiux 9y ago
"Jolly Rodger" LOL! I still have that text file sompelace!
AdmiralAsshat 9y ago
The article recommends "Hiya" as an app among others. I have it on my phone, but I've had horrible luck with it. The app will correctly identify fraudulent or scam calls, but the program has prevented the call from reaching my phone exactly 0% of the time. In practice, what ends up happening is that my phone rings on the normal Android Dialer app, I decline the call, and then Hiya shows up about 20 seconds later to tell me that the call was from a suspected scam caller, which I already figured out when I decided to decline it. Even after installing the thing, I'm forced to still do what I was doing before, which is looking at the number and trying to quickly google it on my PC before the ringing stops to figure out whether to answer or not.
- exhilaration 9y ago
  My Google Nexus 6P phone has something like this built-in, I get a warning when the number is ringing that it's a suspected spam call. If I answer, it will ask me to confirm afterwards that it was indeed a Spam call (it always is) allow me to block it in the future. I'm assuming this is built into the stock Android dialer.
  - JTon 9y ago
    I'm running com.android.dialer and I've never seen this functionality.
  - AdmiralAsshat 9y ago
    No, it's only available to Google and Nexus phones. In fact, Google explicitly blocks non-Nexus phones from installing it: http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/05/14/google-has-updated-the-google-dialer-to-block-sideloading-on-non-nexus-devices/ http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/05/14/google-has-updated-t... I would love to have it, but I'm not going to buy a Pixel strictly for that purpose.
- hasbot 9y ago
  I use Mr. Number on my Android phone. If the calling phone number is marked as Spam in it's database, it'll display that as the call is ringing. It can also be configured to "block" Spam calls, but that means ring once and send it voicemail. Apparently Android's permission model doesn't allow non-root apps to simply hang up on calls.
SippinLean 9y ago
A piece of advice they don't mention: use an alternate number for registering websites and/or hide your WHOIS data. I have a Google Voice # I used only for domain registration. I let the WHOIS guard expire, and I now get regular spam calls to that number daily. I'm sure they source the numbers from a lot of places, but from what I've experienced and read this is a big source of them.
- scierama 9y ago
  I use Google Domains, privacy guarding is free.
phkahler 9y ago
It should not be possible to spoof caller ID. This hole is what allows all of this. Nobody would do this if you could reliably report them or call them back.
teirce 9y ago
Full disclosure: I work for First Orion (the company powering the analytics behind T-Mobile's "Scam-Likely" technology) We have a couple of apps out in the wild that aren't mentioned in the article here (seems like our media relations staff isn't working too hard)! They're on Google Play and iTunes under the banner "PrivacyStar," and I think they are worth checking out if the permissions / data accessed by other apps (e.g. Hiya) has turned you off in the past. For starters, our apps don't lift your contacts and don't strictly require your personal phone number (the majority of our apps still use your number, but we are moving away from including this data in our analytics). We collect analytic data from devices, but in general it's the minimum amount required to power our nuisance-call prevention systems. (I'm not aware of it being sold or farmed out in any way.) Anyway, there's my elevator pitch. Just doing my part to get our name out there, we're a small tech company in AR and it's hard to get any attention down here! :)
- thoughtpalette 9y ago
  Can you address any of the negative reviews? Seems like there's quite a few.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- jamesgeck0 9y ago
  My iPhone SE abruptly rebooted twice when I tried to set up your app. The crash happened each time I swiped out of the intro slide show.
- _eht 9y ago
  Way to throw your media staff under the bus for not promoting your bug ridden app.
- sushid 9y ago
  The Scam Likely has been 100% inaccurate for me. It never catches the actual robocalls but will always mark Uber driver calls as Scam Likely.
izzydata 9y ago
Why are spam calls not against the law in the same way that spam emails are?
- BonesJustice 9y ago
  Calls and text messages to cell phones that use any sort of auto-dialer are illegal without express written consent (and the term 'auto-dialer' is applied rather broadly). The same goes for calls that deliver a pre-recorded message. Fines for violations can range from $500 to $1,500 per violation, but you'll have to figure out who's actually calling you in order to file for damages. Almost all of these calls spoof their caller ID, so good luck with that. If you're in the Do Not Call registry, there are another set of fines on top of those imposed by the TCPA. They start out around the same range, but for excessive violators the fines can now reach up to $40,000 per call (as of August 2016).
  - rrauenza 9y ago
    Speaking of which ... http://www.sfgate.com/local/article/Those-who-have-received-robocalls-about-a-free-11823773.php http://www.sfgate.com/local/article/Those-who-have-received-... $300-$900 TPCA settlement. You can query their form for your phone number to see if you're eligible.
  - codedokode 9y ago
    Do Not Call registry means that by default spammers are allowed to call anyone not on the list. I guess they paid a lot to politicians to have it this way.
    - BonesJustice 9y ago
      I suppose it had the effect of legitimizing telemarketing at the time, but the effect diminishes as more and more people abandon landlines. Spammers can't legally call a cell phone without express written consent unless they dial the number manually, which of course they never do. That's a protection of the TCPA. Same goes for text messages.
athenot 9y ago
The only way I found to fight them requires me to get annoyed enough that I can devote a half-hour for the following: - follow through the automated prompts - get to the tier 1 pre-screening agent (usually some outsourced call-center) and feign interest - get transferred to the next level and go fishing for a contact on their end - if they require a credit card to continue, provide a test number from stripe/paypal etc. - remain nice and pose as gullible the whole time until you get that real contact info - once you got a direct number of a real account rep (and/or company name), set up a script and call them ~ 100 times with an auto-generated message asking them to remove your number. A variant if it's a legit company with a toll-free number: have your script call them and stay on as long as possible, to make them pay for the call. This is fighting fire with fire and it only works one group at a time. But it does provides momentary satisfaction.
- BonesJustice 9y ago
  Be careful with any sort of auto-dialer, even if you script it up yourself. If the contact number you're given happens to be a cell phone, you'll run afoul of the TCPA. Those fines can add up quickly.
  - itsdrewmiller 9y ago
    I'm going to go ahead and guess that the FCC would choose not to move forward with fines in this case. :-P
    - BonesJustice 9y ago
      I was wrong to use the term 'fine'. The TCPA expressly allows individuals to sue for damages. The FCC need not get involved. If someone auto-dials your cell phone, and you can figure out who it is, you can take them to court with a good chance of recovering money from them. If you can prove a willful violation, which isn't necessarily a high bar, you can get treble damages ($500 becomes $1,500). Multiply that by the number of calls. The hardest part is determining who actually called you. If you can get past that hurdle, the court costs aren't terribly expensive, and you can exact a tidy sum from repeat offenders. There are actually lawyers who specialize in these kinds of cases, and because they aren't terribly expensive to pursue, they'll even take them on contingency. I learned about this through a Reddit AMA with such an attorney. Of course, a determined individual can prevail without hiring a lawyer, provided they're willing to put in the time (and can unmask the caller).
malka 9y ago
it baffles me that people answer to unknown phone number. If you want to contact me, and I do not know you yet, you'll have to contact me through an asynchronous way. Voicemail, SMS, e-mail, whatever. Synchronous communication takes way to much time.
- BonesJustice 9y ago
  This. The only time I answer a call from an unknown number is if I'm expecting a food delivery, and it might be the restaurant or delivery person calling. Otherwise, I mash the 'decline' button, and it goes to voicemail.
dguaraglia 9y ago
Google Fi provides this service out of the box. It shows you a red call screen if they think the call is a spam call and it'll ask you if you want to block that number. It's lowered my annoyance level a lot. Somewhat related: if you want to stop receiving a ton of trash on your mailbox, you can ask all credit agencies to stop sending you "pre-approved" credit card offers. It's easily cut my trash mail in half: https://www.optoutprescreen.com https://www.optoutprescreen.com
- Ajedi32 9y ago
  Pretty sure that's a native feature of the default Android dialer app, not just Fi: http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/07/25/googles-phone-app-now-shows-a-warning-about-spam-callers-and-makes-it-easy-to-block-and-report-them-apk-download/ http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/07/25/googles-phone-app-no...
  - dguaraglia 9y ago
    Ah, maybe. I have been using Android all the way back to 2011, but this is my first non-Samsung phone. I have used "stockish" Android before (CyanogenMod) but I guess those don't come with the actual default app as shipped by Google.
lmcnish14 9y ago
I started using the robokiller app and it's made a huge difference for me. I get at least a few telemarketer calls every day and I had stopped answering any phone calls. I've been using the app for a few months and now only get calls that I want. Definitely worth the money for me.
deckar01 9y ago
I have had pretty good luck answering the phone and not saying anything. The call just ends without any recording. My volume has dropped from 2+ a day to 1 a week.
heywire 9y ago
Revenge on IRS phone scammers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzedMdx6QG4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzedMdx6QG4
albeebe1 9y ago
I work at RoboKiller.com I've always thought the way to battle this problem is to waste the callers time. The longer you keep them on the phone, the more expensive and less profitable their robocall operation becomes. With enough people doing this, it could slow them down. At RoboKiller we intercept the call so it doesn't ring your phone or go to voicemail. Instead what happens is we answer the call on our end and proceed to waste the callers time by tricking them into thinking they're talking to a human. Its really funny actually. We send you the recording when we're finished. A couple weeks ago we reached a point where the top robocallers caught on to what we were doing. It was a proud moment for all of us. You can listen for yourself... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi-qtTuO9rY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi-qtTuO9rY
- davidu 9y ago
  I use your product. It's great.
- godelski 9y ago
  I worked as a telemarketer for a month or so (couldn't handle it). By federal law we are required to remove you from our list if you request it. Though most don't, and management actively discourages putting people on the DNC list. You can report them to the FCC though. Also, pressing "0" on legit telemarketers usually takes you to a rep or automatically puts you on the DNC.
- cultofmetatron 9y ago
  never have I had a stronger "shut up and take my money" moment. I noticed that you only have a ios app at the moment. Any plans on supporting android?
  - albeebe1 9y ago
    Here's an honest answer... we definitely want to support Android, but we don't have the resources to do it right.
- inertial 9y ago
  > Super Caller ID scans hundreds of publicly available databases, social networks & apps to give you detailed information on your incoming calls Honest question : Will it upload my personal details to be shared publicly if I install this app (somewhat like truecaller) ?
godelski 9y ago
Has anyone been getting calls from numbers that are oddly similar to your own? As in (xxx)xxx-abcd, where x is the same numbers as my own. Both my coworker and I seem to get these calls. We have different area codes too. Both are on the FCC DNC list. I frequently report these numbers too.
- mikeleung 9y ago
  I get these all the time, like 3-4 a day. I'm pretty sure they are spoofed. I suspect, they are meant to look like your number so you might for a second think 'hey i recognize that number' and pick up
  - godelski 9y ago
    I had a feeling that was the intention, but I was surprised at the tactic. Because that does mean they are likely spoofing real numbers. But it does seem that that is something the FCC should crack down on.
- stouset 9y ago
  Been getting these too. I think it has to start backfiring on them, because it's super obvious that it's the same scammers every time this happens.
snowwrestler 9y ago
I just answer the call and don't say anything. After a few seconds the robot makes a few beeps and hangs up. Presumably the software waits to hear the recipient say something before starting the recording. I hope it marks the number as bad when this happens. I will say that I have received fewer calls since I started doing this. If it is a real person calling you, they'll sense the silence and say "hello? Anyone there?" or something.
- quesera 9y ago
  Reportedly, if you play a reorder tone or special information tri-tone, the dialer will mark your number invalid.
codedokode 9y ago
Why is robocall and telemarketing spam legal? It is surprising that in a modern world where everything is regulated and monitored such a simple problem cannot be solved with fines and jail.
chrisbennet 9y ago
Is there a phone equivalent of "ping"? If there is/was, one might be able to tell if the caller was local just be the round trip time.
technofiend 9y ago
What we need is a simple addition which allows whitelisting - if the contact isn't in your phonebook it's either blocked or you're prompted to accept. Yes it would create an issue in the case of emergencies but that's what voicemail is for.
leslierae784 9y ago
I never knew that a phone could be hacked without having physical access with it,all he asked for were a few information on my partner and he showed me proof immediately he got into the phone. I immediately paid him and got everything that my fiance had been hiding..he was having an affair with two other women which was sickening i must say. We had a long talk on phone and he agreed to help me. I will be nice enough to give u his details but remember to mention leslie reffered u!! Have fun finding out the truth! contact: charlescyberwiz@gmail.com. call or text! +18705130365.
barron4jesus 9y ago
484 273 0091 calls multiple times such as 5 within one minute. When answered, there's no one there. I've blocked, and sent a text message threatening to report as harassing calls. So, how do I go about making such a report?

215 points by gk1 9y ago

I get at least one call a week now. Always from the same area code, often one a few digits off from my number. I wonder how long it will take for the goverment to start enforcing the do not call registry laws. What’s the threshold of annoyance before it’s worth spending taxpayer money to enforce?

sgloutnikov 9y ago
Same thing happens to me at least once per week. They spoof the Caller ID to be the area code and first 3 digits of my number.
- tzs 9y ago
  If you are seeing spoofed numbers from your area code/prefix, there is also a good chance that others in that area code/prefix might be getting calls with your number as the spoofed number. I talked to someone who received such a call when he star-69'ed it.
  - ghaff 9y ago
    Right. And then, if the carrier pursues really aggressive enforcement, they end up making false positive mistakes with no way for the affected individual to remediate them.
ams6110 9y ago
The laws are basically unenforcable. The carriers could do something about it. I'd consider switching service to a carrier that demonstrated they block these kinds of calls. Just like a big part of gmail's popularity is how effectively they block spam.
- com2kid 9y ago
  > The carriers could do something about it. I'd consider switching service to a carrier that demonstrated they block these kinds of calls. T-Mobile blocks a lot of spam callers, but they do not seem to block these spoofed caller ID calls. Thankfully these spoofed calls are so easy to spot that they aren't even a real annoyance to me.
  - DrScump 9y ago
    On my T-Mobile GS7, most such callers are recognized and given a "Scam Likely" caller-id label.
    - posguy 9y ago
      How does the phone model even play into this? Odd of you to mention it.
      - DrScump 9y ago
        It doesn't occur on my GS5s.
        smudgymcscmudge 9y ago
        The difference may be the t-mobile account instead of the phone. IIRC, they are rolling the "Scam Likely" feature out starting with t-mobile one plans.
        masonic 9y ago
        In my case, all 5 phones are on the same plan and account.

jbryson3 9y ago

Largely unhelpful article. Summary: - yes there are more robocalls - Don't pick up - Put your number on do not call list - Get an app to block them

foobarian 9y ago
I like to pick up so I can decide for myself if it's a spam call. If it is, it gets blocked and reported (Android). Not sure if Google does anything with the report but at least it is tagged on the next call in.
- viraptor 9y ago
  > If it is, it gets blocked The numbers are often spoofed, so you'll end up blocking some random local numbers instead.
  - distortedsignal 9y ago
    Two stories about this - Once in 2014, I got a spam call that spoofed my own number. This week, I got a spam call that spoofed the number of a family member. Don't block without being sure.
    - stevewillows 9y ago
      For the past few years the odd spam call I get has been my number with one digit changed. This came as a surprise when my ex-wife's phone number popped up. I didn't realize it was spam until I listened to the voicemail re: the cruise I won.
  - foobarian 9y ago
    I noticed I end up with a pretty high hit-rate; maybe 1/2 of calls come in already tagged. Maybe I'm just lucky the volume is low enough to answer the calls; if they happened more often it wouldn't be practical.
    - 9y ago

thomastruett 9y ago

Check out quitcalling.us

yoda_sl 9y ago
Just a landing page and no info on who is working on this service... doesn’t make me confident.

yoda_sl 9y ago

As I did mention a month or so ago in a post related to robocall I decided myself to tackle a solution to help fight those calls. I am still working on it as a side project, and 90% of the backend system is done, and probably 50% of the iPhone app done (considering to add Android support later). It will add a twist on the way to fight such calls do it has at least a feature that differentiate it from similar apps. If anyone will want to help beta test when it is ready (require an iPhone with iOS 10 or 11), ping me! (Email info in profile)

wizardforhire 9y ago
I'm interested in helping you finish the iPhone app and potentially the android app also as a side project. I don't know how much good I'll be on the back end but I'm open to talk through ideas and help where possible. No money or really even credit needed. I just really think robocalls need a proactive easy to use cross platform solution. That and I want to get better at everything while doing as much good in the process.
hueving 9y ago
Can you give a hint of what it does differently than the current "report spam"/"suspected spam caller" feature of Android?
- yoda_sl 9y ago
  Not right now, since it is one of the aspect where my app will be different than other app.

100k 9y ago

I have had the same phone number for 15 years, and I have been getting A LOT of robocalls lately. I tried stopping them with NoMoRobo on iOS. It worked OK, but it can't match "Unknown caller" or blocked numbers, which made it kind of worthless for me. Sigh.

ziziyO 9y ago
Nomorobo has been hit/miss for me. 75% on catching robocalls, and I've had a false positive that belonged to a caller I wanted to talk to. I'm not enthusiastic about the results, but will be continuing to use it.
russdill 9y ago
Really wish stock android had an easy way of blocking all calls/notifications from callers without caller ID information.
- boot13 9y ago
  I was just poking around in the settings for my new Android phone and found Settings > Applications > Phone > Call blocking > Block list > Block anonymous calls. Would that be helpful at all? I haven't tested it myself.
  - russdill 9y ago
    No such luck. Menu structure is different and dialer does not have that option (stock 7.1.2)

yairhaimo 9y ago

Lenny - Recordings of an hilarious spam-buster. Great way to pass the time: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLduL71_GKzHHk4hLga0nOGWrXlhl-i_3g http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLduL71_GKzHHk4hLga0nOG...

smarks 9y ago

TL;DR Don't pick up calls from unfamiliar numbers. It did help confirm a sneaking suspicion I've had, which is that robocalls spoof a caller ID number with your area code and prefix, to make it seem more familiar. Stories about people who manipulate telemarketers are amusing, and mobile minutes are mostly no longer scarce, but who has the time? Time and attention are the scarcest resources.

greenyoda 9y ago
"robocalls spoof a caller ID number with your area code and prefix, to make it seem more familiar" I discovered this pattern from robocalls on my cell phone. But it has exactly the opposite effect as intended: since I don't know anyone who has the same area code and prefix I do[1], I have 100% confidence that any call with a number like that is spam. And if I don't recognize the area code, or it's from a toll-free area code, it's also spam with 100% confidence. Fortunately, it's very rare for the spammers to leave a voicemail when I don't answer. [1] My city has 7 area codes and thousands of cellular prefixes - the odds of meeting someone with the same area+prefix are slim.
- enobrev 9y ago
  Same for me, since my phone number is more than a decade old and I haven't lived in the city where I obtained the number since 2012. I know people with numbers in the same area code, but definitely not with the same prefix. That said, just about every actual person I know texts before calling, if at least to check when might be a good time to call. Almost nobody calls outright, and if they do and I don't answer, there's always a follow-up text. The same code and prefix thing really seems to have picked up significantly in the last couple months. I have an app that catches most known spam calls, but tends to let these through, which I assume is one of the the underlying reasons for this type of spoofing.
russdill 9y ago
Surely telcos can do something to block calls coming from sources that don't own the number they are providing as caller id. Internet provides started doing this years ago with alien packets.

familyit 9y ago

Oh the joys of government systems. I received this when verifying my number is on the do not call list. "Due to system difficulties, your request was not processed. Please try your request again later or call 1-888-382-1222 to submit your request by phone. We are sorry that we are unable to process your request at this time."

Waterluvian 9y ago

I have never once had an unsolicited call on my cell phone number. I suspected it was because I simply never use it as a phone (data and text only) and therefore somehow stayed off the radar. This seems to validate that thought. It's been an interesting decade, that's for sure. The whole world kind of expects you to have a phone number if you want to do business. Some people are confused, but more often than not it's their software or processes that insist I give a phone number. I leased a car recently and not giving out a number was perplexing to the sales Dept. I explained that I simply don't have one. They ultimately still wanted my business. I wasn't so lucky with getting a credit card.

smellf 9y ago
Your suspicion is correct. Your number gets out there because you give it out, and then 10 years later the company goes under and liquidates their assets which includes a load of customer phone numbers; or because you give it out when you open a credit card or buy a mortgage or car, and you legally can't limit the sharing of your personal info to third parties, who can share your personal info as widely as they want... point is, not having a phone number will be tantamount to not having a social security number in many situations.
- EADGBE 9y ago
  > point is, not having a phone number will be tantamount to not having a social security number in many situations. I think a phone number is shifting to be a replacement for social security numbers in customer databases. My grocery store/gas station relationship, Guitar Center, jewelry store, and oil/lube service station. And that's just the last week-or-so interactions. They don't know my social, but they're using my phone as a primary key for their rewards/lookup.
  - jclardy 9y ago
    Maybe I'm too young, but why would any retail merchant ask for a social security number? The only people I give that out to are banks.

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alister 9y ago

A great observation by tacostakohashi a year ago was that "peak telephone" was the mid-1990s and its success is what kills it, following the same pattern as postal mail, fax, email, usenet, and facebook: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12551566 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12551566

smellf 9y ago
Now you can often get so much more done talking to online chat for whatever utility or organization. I guess it's only a matter of time before you're talking to a robot there too (or is it happening already?) So have we perhaps reached "peak communication"? At least until the direct neural implant, when we can express or receive the information we need by joining minds. But then will there be frustrating computer minds that we have to interface with?
- posguy 9y ago
  You think emailing or chatting your common utility will get your change order processed in a reasonable timeframe? I've got bad news for you, knowing a few people who work at local utilities, those emails you send in get to sit for months in some cases before being processed, meanwhile an order put in when you call in gets processed within days. Many utilities just opened up the floodgates to email and other forms of customer service, without adding any staff to handle said workload, hence the severe backlog at many of these utilities. Same deal with meter readers, most utilities have stopped hiring them because within 2 to 3 years, the utility will have a new smart meter system implemented across the board, and they'd rather not fire a whole team outright. Letting the employees churn without replacing them is much less dramatic.

basicplus2 9y ago

Easiest way to deal with this is never say anything when you pick up.. the line just goes dead after a few seconds if it's a robo call

legohead 9y ago

I noticed the uptick in spam calls as well, even though my phone has been on the do not call list for years. I changed my voicemail recording to: "You've reached the law offices of X and Y, please leave a message..." It seems to have worked so far.

Johnny555 9y ago
The only time spammers leave me voicemail, it's an automated recording, I doubt any human spammer is evening listening to your "law offices of..." voicemail recording.
EADGBE 9y ago
You're probably just confusing the poor sap trying to get a hold of you about your lab test results. Might want to make sure they haven't hung up thinking wrong number.

ChuckMcM 9y ago

One of the sad things that broke when number porting became a thing was there was no definitive answer of which phones were cell phones and which were land lines. This was unfortunate because if you were called on your cell phone for a long time it would cost you money, and if someone called in an unsolicited way, you had 'damages' that you could sue for on the theory that they knew it was a cell phone and they called it anyway. Now however they have reasonable doubt and so they call whenever. I wrote the FCC once and suggested that a good use of some of those fees I pay would be to create a service that would instantly back trace and log a complaint on a number using telemetry from inside the phone system. That combined with a federal criminal statute which allowed for jail time for masking the origin of a phone call and I think you could make to fairly costly for the owners and enablers of this stuff.

ddurkin 9y ago
Databases already exist which identify cell-phone vs landline. https://www.neustar.biz/risk/compliance-solutions/tcpa https://www.neustar.biz/risk/compliance-solutions/tcpa
ukmobile 9y ago
In the UK, all mobile numbers start with "07". Simple solution to this problem.
- iampims 9y ago
  Until you run out of numbers starting with 07? France started with 06 and is now using 07… but 08 is already taken for some other purposes.
  - smellf 9y ago
    What does it matter if the numbers are contiguous? Just keep allocating space for mobile numbers.
  - Nexxxeh 9y ago
    Then existing 07x numbers would be made 071x numbers, and repeat. But the existing 07x range is effectively 9 digits long, (with a few chunks out of it) so we're probably good for a while. We've not started 072 and barely touched 076 (and 071 is currently unused but that's sensible if the existing might ever be bumped to start 071). Our population count is a good way way away from being 9 digits. Already (because of number porting) you have numbers from networks now home in the middle of number ranges of their competitors. But I think we're more likely to see a separation of number/device before that 071x happens. Devices or SIMs will have an IPv6 address and your number is separate but accessible. Time will tell.

ikeboy 9y ago

>One recent scheme involves getting consumers to say “yes” and later using a recording of the response to allow unauthorized charges on the person’s credit card account, the F.C.C. warned in March. I doubt banks are using voice recognition on the single word "yes" to verify charges. Does this make any sense?

adventured 9y ago
That's a case where it has happened a small number of times, complaints were filed, the FCC & Co. picked up on the scam, and they view it as their responsibility to keep the public safe so they generalize. Although I suppose given the speed at which AI is improving, the roboscammers will be utilizing more and more advanced methods soon when it comes to voice sample manipulation. Most of this criminal activity is coming from outside the US, courtesy of Twilio & Co. having turned the phone number system into an API such that it's now easy to rapidly buy and ditch numbers for cheap. The only practical solution for the end-user point is to insert greater intelligence into the system at the carrier level or at the phone level. We're facing a problem where very large numbers of phone numbers will be black listed given enough time, unless we insert a greater cost into the system to make the spamming unprofitable (or make it much harder to get a phone number via services like Twilio). The US could try targeting the criminal organizations and individuals operating these scams on the other end; of course that's expensive and slow, and those people will just keep popping up so long as it's easy to do and profitable. The improving and cheapening AI will make it more and more profitable, as the scammers learn to snake into new, more lucrative financial outlets using authentications / identities they steal.
- icebraining 9y ago
  Why would they need Twillio et all to give them new numbers, if as everyone (including in this thread) says they can spoof the number, even showing as the receiver's number itself?

lsiebert 9y ago

The responses here are only addressing the symptom. You want to stop robocalling, make it stop earning the callers money.

lsiebert 9y ago
I wonder, incidentally, if stopping it at the banking/money transfer level would be effective.
- adventured 9y ago
  It's a whack-a-mole problem. You could never move quickly enough in the banking world to squash how this thing works. The methods are going to get more and more advanced, as AI tech gets better very rapidly in the next few years. The carriers, FCC, and banking system are entirely unprepared for what's coming next. If you really wanted to smash it, make it harder for the roboscammers to abuse the relatively new API systems of inexpensively buying phone numbers in the US market. That either has to occur at Twilio & Co's level or it will have to be government action. If Twilio & Co are smart, they'll get on this soon rather than allowing their business to be destroyed by heavy handed or inept government moves. There are few things more ripe for bad and unintended outcomes than the US government moving rapidly into something they don't understand in the name of safe guarding the people.
  - dredmorbius 9y ago
    You'd be surprised at how quickly adaptive fraud detection systems can work.
    - lsiebert 9y ago
      I wonder how quickly phone companies would shut down people if they faced a meaningful financial penalty.
      - dredmorbius 9y ago

boardwalker 9y ago

Telcos should answer all calls to unregistered numbers with robots of their own. Simple way to prevent spammers from finding real people.

kilburn 9y ago

It amazes me that most of you don't question the fact that you (north americans?) are paying to receive phone calls. Here (Spain, but I think it applies to all the euro zone) we just do not pay to receive calls, which seems much more sensible to me. How would you feel if some random mailguy knocked at your door and when you opened it he threw a package at your hands and immediately charged you for (part of) the delivery? This is exactly how charging to receive phone calls feels to me! How do telcos justify this to you? What's the reasoning behind it?

deleted 9y ago
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ajhurliman 9y ago
It's either a paltry amount of money to accept a call, or completely free (unlimited talk). Data is what costs the real money.
- PietdeVries 9y ago
  What kilburn is referring to is that the business model that telco's use more or less stimulate this type of calls. If a telemarketeer has to pay for setting up a call, rather than the end-user for accepting it (no matter how small the charge is), then placing millions of automated calls all over a sudden start costing money to the marketeer. Think of it: the caller has the will to talk to someone - why should (at least in the past) this someone pay for that? The Euro-zone does it the other way round: you want to talk, you call, you pay. Either way, in both situations with call volumes going down and people switching to data-type connections you see the price of calling/receiving calls drop sharply and as listed above the money telco's make comes from the data plans.
  - chimeracoder 9y ago
    > If a telemarketeer has to pay for setting up a call, rather than the end-user for accepting it (no matter how small the charge is), then placing millions of automated calls all over a sudden start costing money to the marketeer They do have to pay money; initiating a call isn't free. The receiver has to pay a tiny amount of money if they're not on an unlimited plan, but it's so small that it's not worth considering separately from the annoyance of receiving these calls in the first place.

ThrustVectoring 9y ago

There's only a few people that I want to have the ability to have real-time interrupt-driven access to me. My phone is pretty much always set on do-not-disturb, and those folks are whitelisted through. The only time it's off do-not-disturb is if I'm expecting a call. Otherwise, leave a message or use some other asynchronous way to contact me.

deleted 9y ago

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6d6b73 9y ago

I have slightly different way of dealing with them. I pick up, and either ask them to hold on because I'm outside/on the other line/doing something etc.. or if it's a robot I select option they want me to press to connect to the operator. Next I put them on hold and wait to see how long it takes them to disconnect. Record holder was 7 min 51 sec. When I have time I will also talk to them, feed them incorrect information, put them multiple times on hold etc. This wastes their time and money. Maybe if more people started doing that they it would no longer be profitable. :)

Faaak 9y ago
Exactly. I did the same in Europe and calls lowered.

darkmagnus 9y ago

I am at the point where I no longer answer my phone if it isn't one of my contacts. If it is important, they will leave a message. I just press the hang up button on my watch immediately, if it shows an unrecognized number, local or not.

FussyZeus 9y ago
^ That's pretty much how I am too, which is insane. Why on Earth is this still such a problem? Surely we can solve it.
- jerf 9y ago
  It turns out to be really hard to have a medium that A: allows people you have not whitelisted in a advance to contact you and also B: prevents intelligent adversaries from abusing that. There are numerous examples of this: The phone system, the email system, any large IM system that gets beyond a certain size, the physical mail system (reigned in by charges there, though), social networks... It would be easy if the adversaries were not actively using their intelligence to get around whatever solution you think might work. If all the spam phone calls came from the same number, which never moved or changed, this would be easy. But even before you account for the unauthenticated nature of caller ID that allows spammers to trivially forge any number they'd like, the mere fact that they're willing and able to buy up large blocks of numbers and would switch them around a lot would make this a difficult problem. Stopping intelligent, adaptive adversaries willing to dedicate time and resources to this is a very hard problem. You can also attack this problem by trying to hit the first clause I gave, but that creates a very different kind of system. And in general, you need some sort of system that you don't have to prewhitelist people, so that your doctor can call you even though you didn't whitelist them, etc.
  - bluGill 9y ago
    I don't actually need to prevent intelligent adversaries from calling me though - I just need a legal way to go after them if they do. That means I need useful identification. Many of these calls are illegal today, but the law doesn't know how to find them so they get away with it. Anonymous communication is useful, but it has been abused enough that I want to opt-out of it.

davidmurdoch 9y ago

The tips in the article don't work in my case. I do all of them and get about 3-5 robocalls per day. One of the most prolific robo scammers that calls me just about every weekday spoofs their number to match the first 6 digits of my own phone number (area code included).

lucb1e 9y ago
> [I] get about 3-5 robocalls per day. Wtf. At that point I'd just get rid of a phone number altogether. Or turn on flight mode (which I modded to be a GSM toggle, so wifi and bluetooth stay on) and turn it off when people ask (via chat) to call.
- pavel_lishin 9y ago
  > turn it off when people ask (via chat) to call. May I suggest that you guys are in some sort of bubble? My mom's a 60 year old with a flip-phone, and her husband's nephrologist, neurologist and audiologist isn't going to ask her via chat to kindly turn on her phone.
  - lucb1e 9y ago
    I assume they're not on hacker news. I was speaking from a hacker's viewpoint (the person I'm responding to and myself), not for every person on the planet.
    - pavel_lishin 9y ago
      Do hackers not have doctors? Do hackers not have children? Is our daycare going to "chat" me to ask me to turn my phone on if my kid falls down and breaks her arm? Is my doctor going to "chat" me to tell me that the test came back, and that I need to go to the hospital and check myself in right now? Your solution doesn't just not work for some small, irrelevant section of the population like "old people", "parents", or "anyone outside of SV". For that matter, if people are chatting you and asking you to answer the phone, why not just use that app to talk?

dredmorbius 9y ago

"Attorney general's office, criminal complaints investigations, how may I help you?"

TuringNYC 9y ago
Impersonation of government officials is a crime, at least in the US. Funny in this case, but not adviseable.
- BenjiWiebe 9y ago
  If the call center is in India you probably wouldn't get in trouble for it. For that matter, what call center would report you?
  - dredmorbius 9y ago
    "Hello, I'm calling to report an impersonation of a government official." "So, what official was impersonated, exactly?" "Well, not directly ..." "And how did this impersonation happen to come about?" "Well, I was robocalling about a million households all on the Do Not Call Registry ..." I'm not too worried about that risk.

billpg 9y ago

What could someone evil do with a recording of me saying "Yes"? I have a YouTube channel and I've probably said that word in a few of them.

Sleeep 9y ago
https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-warns-can-you-hear-me-phone-scams https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-warns-can-you-hear-me-phone... >The scam begins when a consumer answers a call and the person at the end of the line asks, “Can you hear me?” The caller then records the consumer's "Yes" response and thus obtains a voice signature. This signature can later be used by the scammers to pretend to be the consumer and authorize fraudulent charges via telephone. In other words they splice together "do you want to authorize these charges?" And your "Yes" and present this as "proof" to the credit card company you authorized the charges you are disputing.
- rrauenza 9y ago
  Status unproven: http://www.snopes.com/can-you-hear-me-scam/ http://www.snopes.com/can-you-hear-me-scam/
  - Sleeep 9y ago
    I should have added a caveat, I actually agree with you and I, too, was skeptical of the fact this has been happening. However, since the FCC released an official document about it I figured it was worth mentioning as a theoretical possibility. I am unaware of many cases where the FCC spread urban legends without getting actual complaints, so people presumably have actually been complaining about this happening to them to the FCC, or at least them believing it's happened to them. The "can you hear me" call would have to take place AFTER a scammer had already charged your card for a dubious service. They would (probably?) have to have a merchant account with a payment processor for that.

Shivetya 9y ago

I have been out of the loop for awhile, however in the nineties we had a dial in system at work we used for guards to report when on site and when leaving a site from work. We relied on ANI data from the phone company which contained the actual number the call was placed from. Surely the phone company has this data and could compare it in flight to what is being passed along as the caller id information which I was under the impression is wholly separate data. If anything do so smart phones could see both entries and flag suspicious calls

revmoo 9y ago

The article mentions the DNC registry--I added my phone a couple weeks ago and I've been facing an absolute torrent of spam phone calls. DO NOT add your number to the DNC list. Turns out giving criminals a database of live phone numbers is a bad idea.

Dowwie 9y ago

Google android phones appear to be crowdsourcing countermeasures against spam calls. For instance, I have a Google nexus phone. Often, spam calls are indicated as such in android as I'm receiving a call. For calls that aren't indicated as spam and manage to receive my answer, I hang up and hold my finger down on the number until a menu appears where I can mark a number as spam.

_asummers 9y ago
I've been very pleased with this feature. I used to use TrueCall, but giving my call data to yet another third party felt wrong.

pcunite 9y ago

Why do mobile phones not provide the option, "if caller is not in contacts, send immediately to voice mail". Seems like a simple check box.

czep 9y ago
Both Android and iOS have "Do Not Disturb" features which almost accomplish this. On my Android phone, the "Priority only" setting will silence any calls from outside your contacts list. It would be ideal to be able to send directly to VM, but this option definitely minimizes the distraction. I have it enabled 24/7, except when I know I'm expecting a call from an unknown number.
- brixon 9y ago
  I use the "Mr. Number" app on Android to accomplish this. I have found that straight to VM instead of silencing the phone actually reduces the number of calls I get.
bluGill 9y ago
Because there are too many legitimate callers who you don't have in your contacts. I don't have the lab my doctor uses in my contacts. My doctor may not even use the same lab for different procedures.
- ianferrel 9y ago
  Legitimate callers will leave a voicemail.
  - bluGill 9y ago
    And then we spend days playing phone tag...
    - ianferrel 9y ago
      I add them to my contacts so I answer it the next time...

lucb1e 9y ago

Aren't unsolicited, electronic commercial messages illegal, or is calling somehow different from email? As a Dutchman I've never received a call like that. Only once a text message (about 7 months ago), and I highly suspect that one was just sent by my ISP on the advertiser's behalf.

pavel_lishin 9y ago
You can opt out, which makes them illegal, but they're not going to prosecute an India-based company.
- bradleyjg 9y ago
  How would I even find the right entity to sue. All I have is a spoofed number.
  - mhb 9y ago
    Ask the NSA
  - HankB99 9y ago
    Therein lie the problem. The caller ID system was not designed with the thought that callers might spoof numbers. I think it's time to revise the signaling protocols to make this not possible. If it is a world wide problem and the parties outside the US (my area of concern) choose not to support this, then make the companies that refuse to support this responsible for any fines that accrue from illegal calls. I think this might motivate them to help solve the problem. And FWIW I'm also in the group that doesn't answer calls that are not linked to my contacts. I have also noticed that the spoofed numbers use my area code, exchange and even a jumble of the last 4 digits to get my attention.
    - bluGill 9y ago
      We don't even have to worry about overseas. Get the US and Canada on board (likely easy to get Canada on board) and at least all spoofed numbers will be from obviously foreign locations (or Mexico?). Those calls can be safely ignored for most people.

jmuguy 9y ago

Just a note of caution about Jolly Roger (http://www.jollyrogertelco.com/ http://www.jollyrogertelco.com/), I used to love forwarding spam calls to them. However, since you have to pick up the call to loop Jolly Roger in - the automated system might mark you for repeat calls. For instance I answered a call about student debt repayment or whatever to forward the call and since then I've been getting at least a few calls a week from different numbers about it as well as text messages.

pavel_lishin 9y ago
That's bad for you, but good for everyone else - it's tying up their lines, and hopefully wasting human time.
johnwaynedoe 9y ago
I use Jolly Rodger as well and love it. I think you're correct about picking up the call getting you added to a list. When that happens I just go on the offensive. I call them back and forward the call over to Jolly Rodger multiple times. I have been blacklisted by every call center that I've done this with.

caleblloyd 9y ago

I had been receiving many spam calls and downloaded the Truecaller app. It crowdsources spam caller information and does a good job of notifying you if a call is spam.

pavel_lishin 9y ago

These are great bits of advice - for people with smartphones. What's my mom supposed to do? She visited here for a week, owns a flip phone, and gets - at minimum - a dozen calls a day. We spent a whole day together, I counted. The majority of them come from a single number, and apparently Verizon refuses to block it permanently without being paid a fee.

dabber 9y ago
The only advice mentioned that is smartphone specific is the app suggestion. The rest are things like don't answer and register on the donotcall list which can be done with a rotary phone. As for Verizon not blocking the number without charging you. Why not just switch?
- tgb 9y ago
  Yeah if only the do not call list worked...
  - bluGill 9y ago
    It doesn't work, but you should register anyway and report all instances. The people who maintain that list and abuses of it need to know how badly it is ignored. They need data on how big the problem really is. If they get only a few reports of it not working, well that is statistical noise and can be ignored. If everyone on the list constantly reports unwanted calls that is data that it isn't working and a sign they need to do something about it. One obvious thing they can do about it is pressure the phone companies to stop allowing caller id spoofing. It isn't hard, if the number is from North America, then the phone companies verify it (if it is from a cell phone overseas they have verified the phone and should have verified the owner of the phone), otherwise it is fraud. Caller id spoofing exists so companies with a private switch can have a bunch of different phones have the same number- but the phone company knows what numbers the company is allowed to use so the rest can be filtered. Mind you the above will take a few years to implement. However nobody is working on it because if even one party that needs to do work doesn't the whole thing falls apart.

empath75 9y ago

I think a simple way to fix it would be to charge someone an extra fee the first time they dial a number, and transfer most of that money as a debit on the callees bill. It wouldn't take much to make robocalls unprofitable.

forgotAgain 9y ago

The only way this stops is for the FCC to direct backbone providers to block non-US IP addresses that flood people with these calls.

gregorymichael 9y ago

Nomorobo (http://nomorobo.com http://nomorobo.com) is great for this too on iOS. Fun fact about Aaron Foss, who started Nomorobo: In 2014 he was invited to testify to the FCC on his efforts to fight robocalling. To drive home the magnitude of the issue, he printed the anonymized call logs for the 15M calls blocked by NomoRobo, and bought the 25 boxes of printouts with him to the floor. https://www.wired.com/2015/01/guy-found-way-block-robocalls-phone-companies-wouldnt/ https://www.wired.com/2015/01/guy-found-way-block-robocalls-...

mmcconnell1618 9y ago
Nomorobo is $1.99 per-month per-device! Why should I have to pay for the phone company not being able to screen out caller ID spoofers. This is a failure of the phone company and the technology.
- heimatau 9y ago
  I agree, it is a little pricy. Cost comes down over time. I don't know of any other service that is doing this at the moment. I hope within a year or so, we find an open source solution to this.
heimatau 9y ago
It's a bummer that it's a monthly service but $2 a month isn't bad to end the issue of robocallers. Thanks for the link. This is very helpful.
LogicX 9y ago
Nice to see fellow TechStars Alum, Aaron's company Nomorobo mentioned. Aaron and his team work hard to have a strong service for those bothered enough to want a solution.
CWuestefeld 9y ago
I think the charges are just for cell phones. For my home VoIP phone with simultaneous ringing, the service is free.

lotsofpulp 9y ago

If you have AT&T, try the AT&T Call Protect app: https://www.att.com/features/security-apps.html https://www.att.com/features/security-apps.html

albedoa 9y ago
The insane thing about this app is it still allows some numbers through that they have identified as "severe threats". So AT&T are allowing known severe threats to go through. The app works pretty well most of the time. I just can't wrap my head around this decision unless maybe there is lag between their identification of a number as a threat and their ability to block it.
- lotsofpulp 9y ago
  They might be playing it safe letting the calls still ring your phone, instead of auto blocking. I've had a call show up labeled Telemarketer, but I actually was expecting that call (from Dish TV billing), so I just let them go to voicemail and if they do leave me a message then I know it was a legit call.
EADGBE 9y ago
Thanks for the link! Looks like it's powered by Hiya and requires AT&T HD Voice. https://www.att.com/shop/wireless/features/hd-voice.html https://www.att.com/shop/wireless/features/hd-voice.html

qrbLPHiKpiux 9y ago

"Jolly Rodger" LOL! I still have that text file sompelace!

AdmiralAsshat 9y ago

The article recommends "Hiya" as an app among others. I have it on my phone, but I've had horrible luck with it. The app will correctly identify fraudulent or scam calls, but the program has prevented the call from reaching my phone exactly 0% of the time. In practice, what ends up happening is that my phone rings on the normal Android Dialer app, I decline the call, and then Hiya shows up about 20 seconds later to tell me that the call was from a suspected scam caller, which I already figured out when I decided to decline it. Even after installing the thing, I'm forced to still do what I was doing before, which is looking at the number and trying to quickly google it on my PC before the ringing stops to figure out whether to answer or not.

exhilaration 9y ago
My Google Nexus 6P phone has something like this built-in, I get a warning when the number is ringing that it's a suspected spam call. If I answer, it will ask me to confirm afterwards that it was indeed a Spam call (it always is) allow me to block it in the future. I'm assuming this is built into the stock Android dialer.
- JTon 9y ago
  I'm running com.android.dialer and I've never seen this functionality.
- AdmiralAsshat 9y ago
  No, it's only available to Google and Nexus phones. In fact, Google explicitly blocks non-Nexus phones from installing it: http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/05/14/google-has-updated-the-google-dialer-to-block-sideloading-on-non-nexus-devices/ http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/05/14/google-has-updated-t... I would love to have it, but I'm not going to buy a Pixel strictly for that purpose.
hasbot 9y ago
I use Mr. Number on my Android phone. If the calling phone number is marked as Spam in it's database, it'll display that as the call is ringing. It can also be configured to "block" Spam calls, but that means ring once and send it voicemail. Apparently Android's permission model doesn't allow non-root apps to simply hang up on calls.

SippinLean 9y ago

A piece of advice they don't mention: use an alternate number for registering websites and/or hide your WHOIS data. I have a Google Voice # I used only for domain registration. I let the WHOIS guard expire, and I now get regular spam calls to that number daily. I'm sure they source the numbers from a lot of places, but from what I've experienced and read this is a big source of them.

scierama 9y ago
I use Google Domains, privacy guarding is free.

phkahler 9y ago

It should not be possible to spoof caller ID. This hole is what allows all of this. Nobody would do this if you could reliably report them or call them back.

teirce 9y ago

Full disclosure: I work for First Orion (the company powering the analytics behind T-Mobile's "Scam-Likely" technology) We have a couple of apps out in the wild that aren't mentioned in the article here (seems like our media relations staff isn't working too hard)! They're on Google Play and iTunes under the banner "PrivacyStar," and I think they are worth checking out if the permissions / data accessed by other apps (e.g. Hiya) has turned you off in the past. For starters, our apps don't lift your contacts and don't strictly require your personal phone number (the majority of our apps still use your number, but we are moving away from including this data in our analytics). We collect analytic data from devices, but in general it's the minimum amount required to power our nuisance-call prevention systems. (I'm not aware of it being sold or farmed out in any way.) Anyway, there's my elevator pitch. Just doing my part to get our name out there, we're a small tech company in AR and it's hard to get any attention down here! :)

thoughtpalette 9y ago
Can you address any of the negative reviews? Seems like there's quite a few.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
jamesgeck0 9y ago
My iPhone SE abruptly rebooted twice when I tried to set up your app. The crash happened each time I swiped out of the intro slide show.
_eht 9y ago
Way to throw your media staff under the bus for not promoting your bug ridden app.
sushid 9y ago
The Scam Likely has been 100% inaccurate for me. It never catches the actual robocalls but will always mark Uber driver calls as Scam Likely.

izzydata 9y ago

Why are spam calls not against the law in the same way that spam emails are?

BonesJustice 9y ago
Calls and text messages to cell phones that use any sort of auto-dialer are illegal without express written consent (and the term 'auto-dialer' is applied rather broadly). The same goes for calls that deliver a pre-recorded message. Fines for violations can range from $500 to $1,500 per violation, but you'll have to figure out who's actually calling you in order to file for damages. Almost all of these calls spoof their caller ID, so good luck with that. If you're in the Do Not Call registry, there are another set of fines on top of those imposed by the TCPA. They start out around the same range, but for excessive violators the fines can now reach up to $40,000 per call (as of August 2016).
- rrauenza 9y ago
  Speaking of which ... http://www.sfgate.com/local/article/Those-who-have-received-robocalls-about-a-free-11823773.php http://www.sfgate.com/local/article/Those-who-have-received-... $300-$900 TPCA settlement. You can query their form for your phone number to see if you're eligible.
- codedokode 9y ago
  Do Not Call registry means that by default spammers are allowed to call anyone not on the list. I guess they paid a lot to politicians to have it this way.
  - BonesJustice 9y ago
    I suppose it had the effect of legitimizing telemarketing at the time, but the effect diminishes as more and more people abandon landlines. Spammers can't legally call a cell phone without express written consent unless they dial the number manually, which of course they never do. That's a protection of the TCPA. Same goes for text messages.

athenot 9y ago

The only way I found to fight them requires me to get annoyed enough that I can devote a half-hour for the following: - follow through the automated prompts - get to the tier 1 pre-screening agent (usually some outsourced call-center) and feign interest - get transferred to the next level and go fishing for a contact on their end - if they require a credit card to continue, provide a test number from stripe/paypal etc. - remain nice and pose as gullible the whole time until you get that real contact info - once you got a direct number of a real account rep (and/or company name), set up a script and call them ~ 100 times with an auto-generated message asking them to remove your number. A variant if it's a legit company with a toll-free number: have your script call them and stay on as long as possible, to make them pay for the call. This is fighting fire with fire and it only works one group at a time. But it does provides momentary satisfaction.

BonesJustice 9y ago
Be careful with any sort of auto-dialer, even if you script it up yourself. If the contact number you're given happens to be a cell phone, you'll run afoul of the TCPA. Those fines can add up quickly.
- itsdrewmiller 9y ago
  I'm going to go ahead and guess that the FCC would choose not to move forward with fines in this case. :-P
  - BonesJustice 9y ago
    I was wrong to use the term 'fine'. The TCPA expressly allows individuals to sue for damages. The FCC need not get involved. If someone auto-dials your cell phone, and you can figure out who it is, you can take them to court with a good chance of recovering money from them. If you can prove a willful violation, which isn't necessarily a high bar, you can get treble damages ($500 becomes $1,500). Multiply that by the number of calls. The hardest part is determining who actually called you. If you can get past that hurdle, the court costs aren't terribly expensive, and you can exact a tidy sum from repeat offenders. There are actually lawyers who specialize in these kinds of cases, and because they aren't terribly expensive to pursue, they'll even take them on contingency. I learned about this through a Reddit AMA with such an attorney. Of course, a determined individual can prevail without hiring a lawyer, provided they're willing to put in the time (and can unmask the caller).

malka 9y ago

it baffles me that people answer to unknown phone number. If you want to contact me, and I do not know you yet, you'll have to contact me through an asynchronous way. Voicemail, SMS, e-mail, whatever. Synchronous communication takes way to much time.

BonesJustice 9y ago
This. The only time I answer a call from an unknown number is if I'm expecting a food delivery, and it might be the restaurant or delivery person calling. Otherwise, I mash the 'decline' button, and it goes to voicemail.

dguaraglia 9y ago

Google Fi provides this service out of the box. It shows you a red call screen if they think the call is a spam call and it'll ask you if you want to block that number. It's lowered my annoyance level a lot. Somewhat related: if you want to stop receiving a ton of trash on your mailbox, you can ask all credit agencies to stop sending you "pre-approved" credit card offers. It's easily cut my trash mail in half: https://www.optoutprescreen.com https://www.optoutprescreen.com

Ajedi32 9y ago
Pretty sure that's a native feature of the default Android dialer app, not just Fi: http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/07/25/googles-phone-app-now-shows-a-warning-about-spam-callers-and-makes-it-easy-to-block-and-report-them-apk-download/ http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/07/25/googles-phone-app-no...
- dguaraglia 9y ago
  Ah, maybe. I have been using Android all the way back to 2011, but this is my first non-Samsung phone. I have used "stockish" Android before (CyanogenMod) but I guess those don't come with the actual default app as shipped by Google.

lmcnish14 9y ago

I started using the robokiller app and it's made a huge difference for me. I get at least a few telemarketer calls every day and I had stopped answering any phone calls. I've been using the app for a few months and now only get calls that I want. Definitely worth the money for me.

deckar01 9y ago

I have had pretty good luck answering the phone and not saying anything. The call just ends without any recording. My volume has dropped from 2+ a day to 1 a week.

heywire 9y ago

Revenge on IRS phone scammers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzedMdx6QG4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzedMdx6QG4

albeebe1 9y ago

I work at RoboKiller.com I've always thought the way to battle this problem is to waste the callers time. The longer you keep them on the phone, the more expensive and less profitable their robocall operation becomes. With enough people doing this, it could slow them down. At RoboKiller we intercept the call so it doesn't ring your phone or go to voicemail. Instead what happens is we answer the call on our end and proceed to waste the callers time by tricking them into thinking they're talking to a human. Its really funny actually. We send you the recording when we're finished. A couple weeks ago we reached a point where the top robocallers caught on to what we were doing. It was a proud moment for all of us. You can listen for yourself... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi-qtTuO9rY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi-qtTuO9rY

davidu 9y ago
I use your product. It's great.
godelski 9y ago
I worked as a telemarketer for a month or so (couldn't handle it). By federal law we are required to remove you from our list if you request it. Though most don't, and management actively discourages putting people on the DNC list. You can report them to the FCC though. Also, pressing "0" on legit telemarketers usually takes you to a rep or automatically puts you on the DNC.
cultofmetatron 9y ago
never have I had a stronger "shut up and take my money" moment. I noticed that you only have a ios app at the moment. Any plans on supporting android?
- albeebe1 9y ago
  Here's an honest answer... we definitely want to support Android, but we don't have the resources to do it right.
inertial 9y ago
> Super Caller ID scans hundreds of publicly available databases, social networks & apps to give you detailed information on your incoming calls Honest question : Will it upload my personal details to be shared publicly if I install this app (somewhat like truecaller) ?

godelski 9y ago

Has anyone been getting calls from numbers that are oddly similar to your own? As in (xxx)xxx-abcd, where x is the same numbers as my own. Both my coworker and I seem to get these calls. We have different area codes too. Both are on the FCC DNC list. I frequently report these numbers too.

mikeleung 9y ago
I get these all the time, like 3-4 a day. I'm pretty sure they are spoofed. I suspect, they are meant to look like your number so you might for a second think 'hey i recognize that number' and pick up
- godelski 9y ago
  I had a feeling that was the intention, but I was surprised at the tactic. Because that does mean they are likely spoofing real numbers. But it does seem that that is something the FCC should crack down on.
stouset 9y ago
Been getting these too. I think it has to start backfiring on them, because it's super obvious that it's the same scammers every time this happens.

snowwrestler 9y ago

I just answer the call and don't say anything. After a few seconds the robot makes a few beeps and hangs up. Presumably the software waits to hear the recipient say something before starting the recording. I hope it marks the number as bad when this happens. I will say that I have received fewer calls since I started doing this. If it is a real person calling you, they'll sense the silence and say "hello? Anyone there?" or something.

quesera 9y ago
Reportedly, if you play a reorder tone or special information tri-tone, the dialer will mark your number invalid.

codedokode 9y ago

Why is robocall and telemarketing spam legal? It is surprising that in a modern world where everything is regulated and monitored such a simple problem cannot be solved with fines and jail.

chrisbennet 9y ago

Is there a phone equivalent of "ping"? If there is/was, one might be able to tell if the caller was local just be the round trip time.

technofiend 9y ago

What we need is a simple addition which allows whitelisting - if the contact isn't in your phonebook it's either blocked or you're prompted to accept. Yes it would create an issue in the case of emergencies but that's what voicemail is for.

leslierae784 9y ago

I never knew that a phone could be hacked without having physical access with it,all he asked for were a few information on my partner and he showed me proof immediately he got into the phone. I immediately paid him and got everything that my fiance had been hiding..he was having an affair with two other women which was sickening i must say. We had a long talk on phone and he agreed to help me. I will be nice enough to give u his details but remember to mention leslie reffered u!! Have fun finding out the truth! contact: charlescyberwiz@gmail.com. call or text! +18705130365.

barron4jesus 9y ago

484 273 0091 calls multiple times such as 5 within one minute. When answered, there's no one there. I've blocked, and sent a text message threatening to report as harassing calls. So, how do I go about making such a report?