11 ms·

Look at this clear dark pattern: https://outline-prod.imgix.net/20170721-QVaxMDgDwdZ1TBufCdq4?auto=format&q=60&w=640&s=6daa6b12a3906d3ae21572e1f63c09c0 https://

Look at this clear dark pattern: https://outline-prod.imgix.net/20170721-QVaxMDgDwdZ1TBufCdq4?auto=format&q=60&w=640&s=6daa6b12a3906d3ae21572e1f63c09c0 https://outline-prod.imgix.net/20170721-QVaxMDgDwdZ1TBufCdq4.... (Image taken from the article.) Want to use our service, then only lists positives. Or these other services, then only list negatives. If you're reading this Kite. I now have a negative view of your product. We cannot allow corporations to take over open source tools. Donating is perfectly fine and encouraged, but the above example is a downright take over. If you want another tool then create one, don't take over an existing one and use the communities trust of that tool to promote your product.

bfirsh 9y ago
I fell for this. I enabled it because I was curious about trying new development tools, only to find out later it uploaded all of the source code on my computer to their service. What the hell. It took me months to get through to a human to get them to delete my code, including two emails to the CEO. I like the idea, but there is no way I would use it after this experience.
- mirekrusin 9y ago
  wtf are those guys doing, uploading source code without consent feels criminal, source code with app configs/secrets has ultra sensitive information. anybody has a list of infected packages so others can quickly remove with `apm uninstall ...`?
  - koolba 9y ago
    Well technically you did consent by clicking "Enable Kite". I'm not familiar with Kite but the linked image has a line that says, "Click here to learn more.". I'd wager that it eventually links to a page that explains that all your source will be uploaded to their servers. Now that doesn't make it any less shady though...
    - danmaz74 9y ago
      Hiding a detail like this into a "read more" is uber-shady. They deserve all the backlash they're getting.
      - LaurentVB 9y ago
        Funny how I now read this as Uber-shady.
    - 3pt14159 9y ago
      What they did is figuratively a felony (literally a "indictable offense") here in Canada. These guys are going to go to prison. Courts have ruled time and time again that hiding unreasonable or otherwise illegal actions in ToS does not absolve liability or criminality.
      - enzanki_ars 9y ago
        Just out of curiosity, what part of this is considered illegal? Not defending Kite here, but it seems that even though they are using some shady tactics to gain users, none of their product/ToS seems illegal.
        efdee 9y ago
        Theft of copyrighted material, if bfirsh's claim of having the tool upload _all of the source code on his computer_ without asking about it. Maybe even corporate espionage.
        jonathanstrange 9y ago
        > Theft of copyrighted material Copyright infringement is not theft. These are two completely different issues. When data is copied it is not taken away from the owner like when physical goods are stolen. Secondary damages may or may not occur, but they are not the same as depriving someone of a good. As an analogy, I wouldn't steal a car, but I surely would copy a car if I could do so by simply pressing a button...
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    It does not just feel criminal, it probably is. On top of that it might make you liable for reproducing some company code without permission. Very very bad idea.
- rasjani 9y ago
  Kite has been mentioned few times in hn, latest here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13977982 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13977982
- segmondy 9y ago
  That is theft of the highest order!!!
  - matt4077 9y ago
    It's not theft, neither sorted nor random.
- mercer 9y ago
  I've almost been bitten by them in the same way. I vaguely remember that it was through HN that I found out about Kite and installed their plugin(s). It definitely felt 'dirty'.
- edraferi 9y ago
  > it uploaded all of the source code on my computer to their service. That sounds crazy, so I reviewed their privacy policy[0]. It looks like Kite now requires users to whitelist the directories it indexes and automatically purges files you remove from the local index. The Privacy Policy says that: > When you use our services, we may collect [...] Any source code files on your computer's hard drive that you have explicitly allowed our services to access. To learn how to control access to your source code files, please visit our FAQ. The FAQ[1] says > Kite only uploads files that: > > 1. Have a .py file extension, > 2. Are children of a whitelisted directory, > 3. And are not ignored by a .kiteignore file. That doesn't seem like "any source code file on your computer" to me - unless it whitelists root by default, which would be a hella dark pattern. Also, removing a file from the local index should remove it from the server as well [2] [0] https://kite.com/privacy https://kite.com/privacy [1] http://help.kite.com/category/30-security-privacy http://help.kite.com/category/30-security-privacy [2] http://help.kite.com/article/10-how-do-i-delete-files-from-kite http://help.kite.com/article/10-how-do-i-delete-files-from-k...
  - codegladiator 9y ago
    > Also, removing a file from the local index should remove it from the server as well [2] Maybe you are thinking only for your self. What about the majority of the users of minimap/(other hacked plugins) who doesnt know this is going on, and they are not aware that some files need to be deleted from someone elses server. ps. i know "hacked" is not the proper term here ,but you get the idea.
    - edraferi 9y ago
      I totally agree that putting proprietary integrations into open source packages is shady. However, I don't think that the Minimap "kite promotion" [0] went so far as too actually upload code to Kite's cloud platform. It looks like it just added tool tips that referenced Kite's documentation. That's distracting and unwanted, but not as egregious as uploading your code without permission. [0] https://github.com/atom-minimap/minimap/commit/16c11d82b889ce1260342e4fa7d6d1905c0fde45 https://github.com/atom-minimap/minimap/commit/16c11d82b889c...
  - 9y ago
- bfirsh 9y ago
  If you want to see if they have any of your data, check: https://kite.com/settings/files https://kite.com/settings/files I have zero faith this page actually works though. A few months ago I deleted all of my data and I checked back today and it has reappeared. (I uninstalled the client and deleted my login token back then too, so as far as I can see it's their issue.) I have sent them a stern email to delete my data. If you want your data deleted too, I would recommend doing the same rather than trusting their web interface. None of the emails on their website seem to work, though. Emailing the CEO does work eventually, but I don't want to start a witch hunt. My email is in my profile if you want his email.
- jacquesm 9y ago
  That could be enough to get your fired and or sued depending on the status of the code on your computer.
- option_greek 9y ago
  WTF, this could get people fired. Many companies do not descriminate whether an employee has uploaded code to a third party server intentionally or not. If corprate software monitors catch this happening, its pink slip in many places. I just can't believe anyone would play with developers this way. What a cruel company.
  - api 9y ago
    It could also get Kite sued.
    - nojvek 9y ago
      Someone should definitely sue Kite.
      - i_cant_speel 9y ago
        Wait until they get their funding.
  - wolfgke 9y ago
    > WTF, this could get people fired. Many companies do not descriminate whether an employee has uploaded code to a third party server intentionally or not. That is why developers should be very careful what applications they install on the corporate computer and what cloud services they use.
    - flamtap 9y ago
      It's true; "fool me once" and all that. But it really doesn't make the world a better place to live if it's easier to get fired by accident.
- tedmiston 9y ago
  It clearly states in the diagram that the code you run Kite on will be analyzed in the cloud. If it truly uploaded "all of the source code on [your] computer" then obviously that is radically different but from my experience with the product, it did not upload my code besides what was directly related to what I was working on and understood would be analyzed in the cloud, just like Code Climate or any other code analysis service.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- cmurf 9y ago
  >only to find out later it uploaded all of the source code on my computer It didn't ask? Sounds like malware, and meets the definition of theft. Inviting someone into your house does not give them permission to steal things in your home, and leave with them.
briandear 9y ago
> We cannot allow corporations to take over open source tools. I don’t know how much I agree with that statement in general. There are several major open source projects with corporate “control” – Mozilla, Google and Apple control/heavily influence Firefox, Angular and Swift respectively and there are probably a dozen others. The idea that corporations are “bad” is a tired trope. Some corporations are bad, some are good, some are in the middle. But I agree with your actual actual sentiment though – corporate involvement in open source should be as benevolent as possible.
- RobertoG 9y ago
  "Some corporations are bad, some are good, some are in the middle." I don't think we need to bring morality to the discussion and complicate the issue. Corporations are organized around profit, open-source is not. With only that in mind you can predict what will happen in most of the cases. To put Mozilla, a not-profit, in this context, in the same set that Google and Apple is not fair, by the way.
  - jwildeboer 9y ago
    So let's discuss your argument by taking Red Hat. For-profit, pure open source company. Founded 1993. Are we (I work at Red Hat) behaving badly?
    - RobertoG 9y ago
      I explicitly tried to put out "god" and "bad" from the discussion but OK, let's do that. Red-Hat main worry is to be profitable. That's is above any other concern. You can be sure that, if their bottom line was threatened, they will be pushed, in order to survive, to change their business model and they will not be beyond behaving in a "bad" (but legal) way if they don't see other way around the problem. If fact, we can argue, that Red-Hat management, being it a public company, is forced by law to do that.
      - cyphar 9y ago
random42_ 9y ago
I would not forget to mention the owners of these projects who handed the projects over to Kite. I think they are in the wrong as much as Kite.
- tskaiser 9y ago
  Isn't that a bit too witch-huntery? It is Kite who is actively doing the shady stuff.
  - danso 9y ago
    One of the owners was hired by Kite half a year ago.
    - tskaiser 9y ago
      This changes their power dynamic. One could argue they ought to find another job once the shady stuff started, but I still think you should focus on the actual instigators rather than the pawns.
  - wolfgke 9y ago
    In a security-sensitive corporate setting it is already harmful if anything gets uploaded to some cloud service - if this occurs, the damage already happens and anything that follows is "just" damage containment. I believe about every company that develops software has some clauses about what software is allowed to be installed on the corporate computers and who has to initial any request to install a new program on the computer.
- camiller 9y ago
  Iff they had foreknowledge that the changes were going to happen, which is unlikely. Id be surprised if Kite bought/acquihired/etc the product by disclosing a list of shady changes beforehand.
  - smoyer 9y ago
    Beautiful use of "iff" in a sentence! ("iff" = "if and only if" for those wondering).
tedmiston 9y ago
I'm going to take a contrarian stance on this one: I believe there is no story here — adding an ad for an opt-in cloud-based tool to dev tools is not spyware. It's opt-in! It's clearly stated. Would people raise a fuss to find out their CI service like CircleCI or linter service like Code Climate had access to their code (it's sufficiently obvious)? I don't really see why this tool is any different other than they are one of the first to make a code analysis service that runs in realtime. I beta tested the Kite product when it first launched maybe two years ago. I don't use it today but I would try it again. Since then they've only tightened down on permissions and made things clearer. Kite was also not the first to run ads in an IDE plugin (Wes Bos has sponsored several), at least not in Sublime. Personally it's not my preference to have ads either but ultimately this is up to the maintainer of each repo. The tool is still free to use. It clearly states that using the cloud engine will upload your code to do analysis in the cloud. It's 2-3 sentences, not like it's buried in some long EULA. Shame on the article for labeling inserting an ad as "taking over" and labeling an ad as "spyware"… pure clickbait targeting non-devs. The new Kite engine also clearly states it is a cloud-based service and they build integrations for their service. The whole industy works the same way. You don't have to use their engine to use autocomplete-python and its opt-in too.
- iainmerrick 9y ago
  Well, who benefits from having the ads there? Wouldn't it be better for most users without the ads? What value is Kite adding? It's a slippery slope, similar to the controversies over using BitKeeper for the Linux kernel or adding DRM to HTML5 (both justified, I think). The openness in open source needs to be defended.
  - tedmiston 9y ago
    While I would not argue anything about ads directly, I think that all users benefit from having additional options in the plugin, and if the ad is relevant to a portion of users and leads to some users discovering an additional dev tool for their workflow than it was worthwhile. That is the perspective I have in mind for the hypothesis that Kite was testing. I genuinely don't understand why this service is getting a disproportionate amount of backlash relative to the plethora of cloud based services out there that analyze one's entire codebase. Maybe it's because they're interacting with the code from the dev machine directly vs integrating with repos on the git server? Would that make it different to you?
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
ballenf 9y ago
A system of permissions for plugins would be welcome in my mind for Atom, similar to browser plugins or mobile apps. Then a new "feature" would require the "transmit your code to a third party" permission.
- inetknght 9y ago
  How would you enforce that?
adamsmith 9y ago
Hi Ruben, founder of Kite here. I think this issue deserves a more thorough response because there are a lot of misrepresentations in the article. One misrepresentation that I wanted to quickly highlight is that the autocomplete-python install flow has three steps, not just the one linked in to in the screenshot above. The other two are: Enter their email address - https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/87728/28395016-dc7ac588-6ca5-11e7-8506-7c42cdcf9e86.png https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/87728/28395016-dc7... Read a warning, decide if they want to whitelist any files - https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/87728/28395021-e0416690-6ca5-11e7-845e-1ede54d6d719.png https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/87728/28395021-e04... Small technicality: these screenshots say that Kite is installing but it's actually only downloading the installer binary to memory; the actual install doesn't happen unless the user goes through all three steps. It's also worth noting that if the user clicks "Add Later" no code is sent to the Kite servers for analysis until they whitelist a directory.
- EddieRingle 9y ago
  > I think this issue deserves a more thorough response because there are a lot of misrepresentations in the article. From the article: > Smith also said that most of the negative reaction was due to confusion around what the tools actually do. (Connor pointed out that it’s not possible to review what Kite does, since it itself is not open source.) Then he blew this reporter off. “I apologize in advance that I can't answer any further questions,” he wrote. “I need to focus on other parts of the business, including continuing to improve the product for our users, and conflict like this is always doubly distracting.” The above sounds like you were given the opportunity to explain things but shrugged it off as a distraction. If it deserves a more thorough response, why hasn't that been given? Even in this reply you only "quickly highlight" one point.
  - jdp23 9y ago
    Yeah, I came here to say exactly this.
- Improvotter 9y ago
  Then how do you explain this? https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/4001044/28342719-318574fa-6bdf-11e7-9838-de569356c8db.png https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/4001044/28342719-3... Don't weasel your way out of this Ruben.
edem 9y ago
Please share the link for writing the negative review. It will make it easier for others as well to leave one.
lithos 9y ago
It's interesting watching HN get indignant when a company treats them the same way their idol companies treat everyone else. A lot of grab all data, track everything, and hide the creepiness in fine print type companies.

bfirsh 9y ago

I fell for this. I enabled it because I was curious about trying new development tools, only to find out later it uploaded all of the source code on my computer to their service. What the hell. It took me months to get through to a human to get them to delete my code, including two emails to the CEO. I like the idea, but there is no way I would use it after this experience.

mirekrusin 9y ago
wtf are those guys doing, uploading source code without consent feels criminal, source code with app configs/secrets has ultra sensitive information. anybody has a list of infected packages so others can quickly remove with `apm uninstall ...`?
- koolba 9y ago
  Well technically you did consent by clicking "Enable Kite". I'm not familiar with Kite but the linked image has a line that says, "Click here to learn more.". I'd wager that it eventually links to a page that explains that all your source will be uploaded to their servers. Now that doesn't make it any less shady though...
  - danmaz74 9y ago
    Hiding a detail like this into a "read more" is uber-shady. They deserve all the backlash they're getting.
    - LaurentVB 9y ago
      Funny how I now read this as Uber-shady.
  - 3pt14159 9y ago
    What they did is figuratively a felony (literally a "indictable offense") here in Canada. These guys are going to go to prison. Courts have ruled time and time again that hiding unreasonable or otherwise illegal actions in ToS does not absolve liability or criminality.
    - enzanki_ars 9y ago
      Just out of curiosity, what part of this is considered illegal? Not defending Kite here, but it seems that even though they are using some shady tactics to gain users, none of their product/ToS seems illegal.
      - efdee 9y ago
        Theft of copyrighted material, if bfirsh's claim of having the tool upload _all of the source code on his computer_ without asking about it. Maybe even corporate espionage.
        jonathanstrange 9y ago
        > Theft of copyrighted material Copyright infringement is not theft. These are two completely different issues. When data is copied it is not taken away from the owner like when physical goods are stolen. Secondary damages may or may not occur, but they are not the same as depriving someone of a good. As an analogy, I wouldn't steal a car, but I surely would copy a car if I could do so by simply pressing a button...
- jacquesm 9y ago
  It does not just feel criminal, it probably is. On top of that it might make you liable for reproducing some company code without permission. Very very bad idea.
rasjani 9y ago
Kite has been mentioned few times in hn, latest here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13977982 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13977982
segmondy 9y ago
That is theft of the highest order!!!
- matt4077 9y ago
  It's not theft, neither sorted nor random.
mercer 9y ago
I've almost been bitten by them in the same way. I vaguely remember that it was through HN that I found out about Kite and installed their plugin(s). It definitely felt 'dirty'.
edraferi 9y ago
> it uploaded all of the source code on my computer to their service. That sounds crazy, so I reviewed their privacy policy[0]. It looks like Kite now requires users to whitelist the directories it indexes and automatically purges files you remove from the local index. The Privacy Policy says that: > When you use our services, we may collect [...] Any source code files on your computer's hard drive that you have explicitly allowed our services to access. To learn how to control access to your source code files, please visit our FAQ. The FAQ[1] says > Kite only uploads files that: > > 1. Have a .py file extension, > 2. Are children of a whitelisted directory, > 3. And are not ignored by a .kiteignore file. That doesn't seem like "any source code file on your computer" to me - unless it whitelists root by default, which would be a hella dark pattern. Also, removing a file from the local index should remove it from the server as well [2] [0] https://kite.com/privacy https://kite.com/privacy [1] http://help.kite.com/category/30-security-privacy http://help.kite.com/category/30-security-privacy [2] http://help.kite.com/article/10-how-do-i-delete-files-from-kite http://help.kite.com/article/10-how-do-i-delete-files-from-k...
- codegladiator 9y ago
  > Also, removing a file from the local index should remove it from the server as well [2] Maybe you are thinking only for your self. What about the majority of the users of minimap/(other hacked plugins) who doesnt know this is going on, and they are not aware that some files need to be deleted from someone elses server. ps. i know "hacked" is not the proper term here ,but you get the idea.
  - edraferi 9y ago
    I totally agree that putting proprietary integrations into open source packages is shady. However, I don't think that the Minimap "kite promotion" [0] went so far as too actually upload code to Kite's cloud platform. It looks like it just added tool tips that referenced Kite's documentation. That's distracting and unwanted, but not as egregious as uploading your code without permission. [0] https://github.com/atom-minimap/minimap/commit/16c11d82b889ce1260342e4fa7d6d1905c0fde45 https://github.com/atom-minimap/minimap/commit/16c11d82b889c...
- 9y ago
bfirsh 9y ago
If you want to see if they have any of your data, check: https://kite.com/settings/files https://kite.com/settings/files I have zero faith this page actually works though. A few months ago I deleted all of my data and I checked back today and it has reappeared. (I uninstalled the client and deleted my login token back then too, so as far as I can see it's their issue.) I have sent them a stern email to delete my data. If you want your data deleted too, I would recommend doing the same rather than trusting their web interface. None of the emails on their website seem to work, though. Emailing the CEO does work eventually, but I don't want to start a witch hunt. My email is in my profile if you want his email.
jacquesm 9y ago
That could be enough to get your fired and or sued depending on the status of the code on your computer.
option_greek 9y ago
WTF, this could get people fired. Many companies do not descriminate whether an employee has uploaded code to a third party server intentionally or not. If corprate software monitors catch this happening, its pink slip in many places. I just can't believe anyone would play with developers this way. What a cruel company.
- api 9y ago
  It could also get Kite sued.
  - nojvek 9y ago
    Someone should definitely sue Kite.
    - i_cant_speel 9y ago
      Wait until they get their funding.
- wolfgke 9y ago
  > WTF, this could get people fired. Many companies do not descriminate whether an employee has uploaded code to a third party server intentionally or not. That is why developers should be very careful what applications they install on the corporate computer and what cloud services they use.
  - flamtap 9y ago
    It's true; "fool me once" and all that. But it really doesn't make the world a better place to live if it's easier to get fired by accident.
tedmiston 9y ago
It clearly states in the diagram that the code you run Kite on will be analyzed in the cloud. If it truly uploaded "all of the source code on [your] computer" then obviously that is radically different but from my experience with the product, it did not upload my code besides what was directly related to what I was working on and understood would be analyzed in the cloud, just like Code Climate or any other code analysis service.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
cmurf 9y ago
>only to find out later it uploaded all of the source code on my computer It didn't ask? Sounds like malware, and meets the definition of theft. Inviting someone into your house does not give them permission to steal things in your home, and leave with them.

briandear 9y ago

> We cannot allow corporations to take over open source tools. I don’t know how much I agree with that statement in general. There are several major open source projects with corporate “control” – Mozilla, Google and Apple control/heavily influence Firefox, Angular and Swift respectively and there are probably a dozen others. The idea that corporations are “bad” is a tired trope. Some corporations are bad, some are good, some are in the middle. But I agree with your actual actual sentiment though – corporate involvement in open source should be as benevolent as possible.

RobertoG 9y ago
"Some corporations are bad, some are good, some are in the middle." I don't think we need to bring morality to the discussion and complicate the issue. Corporations are organized around profit, open-source is not. With only that in mind you can predict what will happen in most of the cases. To put Mozilla, a not-profit, in this context, in the same set that Google and Apple is not fair, by the way.
- jwildeboer 9y ago
  So let's discuss your argument by taking Red Hat. For-profit, pure open source company. Founded 1993. Are we (I work at Red Hat) behaving badly?
  - RobertoG 9y ago
    I explicitly tried to put out "god" and "bad" from the discussion but OK, let's do that. Red-Hat main worry is to be profitable. That's is above any other concern. You can be sure that, if their bottom line was threatened, they will be pushed, in order to survive, to change their business model and they will not be beyond behaving in a "bad" (but legal) way if they don't see other way around the problem. If fact, we can argue, that Red-Hat management, being it a public company, is forced by law to do that.
    - cyphar 9y ago

random42_ 9y ago

I would not forget to mention the owners of these projects who handed the projects over to Kite. I think they are in the wrong as much as Kite.

tskaiser 9y ago
Isn't that a bit too witch-huntery? It is Kite who is actively doing the shady stuff.
- danso 9y ago
  One of the owners was hired by Kite half a year ago.
  - tskaiser 9y ago
    This changes their power dynamic. One could argue they ought to find another job once the shady stuff started, but I still think you should focus on the actual instigators rather than the pawns.
- wolfgke 9y ago
  In a security-sensitive corporate setting it is already harmful if anything gets uploaded to some cloud service - if this occurs, the damage already happens and anything that follows is "just" damage containment. I believe about every company that develops software has some clauses about what software is allowed to be installed on the corporate computers and who has to initial any request to install a new program on the computer.
camiller 9y ago
Iff they had foreknowledge that the changes were going to happen, which is unlikely. Id be surprised if Kite bought/acquihired/etc the product by disclosing a list of shady changes beforehand.
- smoyer 9y ago
  Beautiful use of "iff" in a sentence! ("iff" = "if and only if" for those wondering).

tedmiston 9y ago

I'm going to take a contrarian stance on this one: I believe there is no story here — adding an ad for an opt-in cloud-based tool to dev tools is not spyware. It's opt-in! It's clearly stated. Would people raise a fuss to find out their CI service like CircleCI or linter service like Code Climate had access to their code (it's sufficiently obvious)? I don't really see why this tool is any different other than they are one of the first to make a code analysis service that runs in realtime. I beta tested the Kite product when it first launched maybe two years ago. I don't use it today but I would try it again. Since then they've only tightened down on permissions and made things clearer. Kite was also not the first to run ads in an IDE plugin (Wes Bos has sponsored several), at least not in Sublime. Personally it's not my preference to have ads either but ultimately this is up to the maintainer of each repo. The tool is still free to use. It clearly states that using the cloud engine will upload your code to do analysis in the cloud. It's 2-3 sentences, not like it's buried in some long EULA. Shame on the article for labeling inserting an ad as "taking over" and labeling an ad as "spyware"… pure clickbait targeting non-devs. The new Kite engine also clearly states it is a cloud-based service and they build integrations for their service. The whole industy works the same way. You don't have to use their engine to use autocomplete-python and its opt-in too.

iainmerrick 9y ago
Well, who benefits from having the ads there? Wouldn't it be better for most users without the ads? What value is Kite adding? It's a slippery slope, similar to the controversies over using BitKeeper for the Linux kernel or adding DRM to HTML5 (both justified, I think). The openness in open source needs to be defended.
- tedmiston 9y ago
  While I would not argue anything about ads directly, I think that all users benefit from having additional options in the plugin, and if the ad is relevant to a portion of users and leads to some users discovering an additional dev tool for their workflow than it was worthwhile. That is the perspective I have in mind for the hypothesis that Kite was testing. I genuinely don't understand why this service is getting a disproportionate amount of backlash relative to the plethora of cloud based services out there that analyze one's entire codebase. Maybe it's because they're interacting with the code from the dev machine directly vs integrating with repos on the git server? Would that make it different to you?

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

ballenf 9y ago

A system of permissions for plugins would be welcome in my mind for Atom, similar to browser plugins or mobile apps. Then a new "feature" would require the "transmit your code to a third party" permission.

inetknght 9y ago
How would you enforce that?

adamsmith 9y ago

Hi Ruben, founder of Kite here. I think this issue deserves a more thorough response because there are a lot of misrepresentations in the article. One misrepresentation that I wanted to quickly highlight is that the autocomplete-python install flow has three steps, not just the one linked in to in the screenshot above. The other two are: Enter their email address - https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/87728/28395016-dc7ac588-6ca5-11e7-8506-7c42cdcf9e86.png https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/87728/28395016-dc7... Read a warning, decide if they want to whitelist any files - https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/87728/28395021-e0416690-6ca5-11e7-845e-1ede54d6d719.png https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/87728/28395021-e04... Small technicality: these screenshots say that Kite is installing but it's actually only downloading the installer binary to memory; the actual install doesn't happen unless the user goes through all three steps. It's also worth noting that if the user clicks "Add Later" no code is sent to the Kite servers for analysis until they whitelist a directory.

EddieRingle 9y ago
> I think this issue deserves a more thorough response because there are a lot of misrepresentations in the article. From the article: > Smith also said that most of the negative reaction was due to confusion around what the tools actually do. (Connor pointed out that it’s not possible to review what Kite does, since it itself is not open source.) Then he blew this reporter off. “I apologize in advance that I can't answer any further questions,” he wrote. “I need to focus on other parts of the business, including continuing to improve the product for our users, and conflict like this is always doubly distracting.” The above sounds like you were given the opportunity to explain things but shrugged it off as a distraction. If it deserves a more thorough response, why hasn't that been given? Even in this reply you only "quickly highlight" one point.
- jdp23 9y ago
  Yeah, I came here to say exactly this.
Improvotter 9y ago
Then how do you explain this? https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/4001044/28342719-318574fa-6bdf-11e7-9838-de569356c8db.png https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/4001044/28342719-3... Don't weasel your way out of this Ruben.

edem 9y ago

Please share the link for writing the negative review. It will make it easier for others as well to leave one.

lithos 9y ago

It's interesting watching HN get indignant when a company treats them the same way their idol companies treat everyone else. A lot of grab all data, track everything, and hide the creepiness in fine print type companies.