7 ms·

I'm a Chinese & living China, I shopping almost only with credit cards and cash for privacy consideration. However, I don't think credit cards in China are as

I'm a Chinese & living China, I shopping almost only with credit cards and cash for privacy consideration. However, I don't think credit cards in China are as popular as it is in the USA. I could guess most Chinese people don't have any credit card. Chinese traditional culture encourages saving, not loaning. And taking small loans is exactly how credit cards works. So maybe that's why people here don't like credit card very much. QR pay (Or mobile pay, OR more specifically, Alipay and Tenpay etc) can acting like a gate way between seller, user and bank. It can pay with the money you already have, no need to loan from the bank. So I think it's a Culture Match. Beside that, take a wallet (Which is needed for protecting your credit cards from been scratched) everyday is a burden. I could really be happier if I can get rid of it from my EDC (I can't get rid of my phone, so).

csydas 9y ago
Maybe the data doesn't back this, but as a US citizen I find that most of the time when people refer to credit cards they're meaning their Bank card, which often acts as whatever you define it as at the terminal or it has a default status for quick pay options. There are many people that are happy to just pull out the credit card to buy beyond their means but a lot of the time people are using a card backed directly by their Bank account.
- svckr 9y ago
  Here in Germany we have a clear distinction between credit- and debit cards. And I guess the culture leans more toward the "saving not loaning" model nickrio describes. So for me it is a conscious decision wether I pay with my bank account or credit. Unlike China however, adoption of digital, low-barrier payments is extremely low here. I mean, hell, we're mostly buying paper bus tickets, while local public transport is sloooowly starting to roll out RFID tickets & readers. All I'm saying is, I find the cultural differences and the impact they have on our day to day dealings (which, on the surface, seem to be the same globally) deeply fascinating :)
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    When I lived to Switzerland, I was pretty surprised my debit card (Maestro) couldn't work on credit card networks (Master Card, heck, the logos looked almost the same!). I'm surprised Germany is so far behind switzerland though, I mean, even when I lived there 10 years ago I could use my debit card via chip in a kiosk and have my train ticket very quickly. I don't think standard Beijing city buses take wepay yet. You still hand over paper bills to the conductor or use your beijing transit NFC card.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - ralfd 9y ago
      What the parent meant is that you get a paper ticket, even if you pay per card at an automated kiosk. Online-QR-code-tickets bought per Smartphone are now common too though.
    - lostboys67 9y ago
      I think it might be cultural as Germany has suffered massive bank crashes throughout the 20th century people trust
  - Symbiote 9y ago
    The Nordic countries also have that distinction, indeed credit cards are often charged 1-3% in fees, while debit cards are usually free. That hasn't prevented the demise of cash, and MobilePay, Swish etc are popular for personal and commercial transactions. The RFID card works on all public transport all across Denmark. Sweden has regional systems. I don't know about elsewhere. The leader for this is London, where any contactless payment card works on public transport.
    - lb1lf 9y ago
      To illustrate how widespread the use of debit cards is - the Norwegian National Bank rolled out a couple of new bank notes in late May. Only last week did I actually see one of the new 100kr ($12) bills. Debet card terminals are everywhere, some churches have even put them next to the collection plate - and it is not uncommon to see street vendors using wireless terminals.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
seanmcdirmid 9y ago
I think most people pay their balance off every month in the USA. Credit card doesn't mean borrowing. The big problem with credit cards in China is fraud: banks like ICBC will put the burden of proof on the card holder when a fraud transaction occurs, rather than the merchant as in the west. I really hate ICBC. Anyways, debit cards work just like QR pay does, just like UnionPay already does. The problem QR codes are solving is the lack of a POS terminal and stream lining the swipe. Many countries have an even better technology in NFC contact (including China, many newer UnionPay POS's include NFC, though the card must have a chip to support it). Then you could just glue your debit card to the back of your phone...(or use NFC in your phone via something like Apple or Android Pay).
- ajdlinux 9y ago
  http://time.com/money/4213757/average-american-credit-card-debt/ http://time.com/money/4213757/average-american-credit-card-d...
- sangnoir 9y ago
  > Many countries have an even better technology in NFC contact NFC isn't "better technology", just different to QR code. NFC also handles 1 payer at a time whereas QR can handle multiple, in parallel depending on the physical display size.
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    NFC is better than QR codes in many many many ways. You don't have to line up the codes with the phones, paying is much faster, and the "1 payer at a time" limitation is actually the 99.9% use case for payments.
    - raesene6 9y ago
      Until recently I'd have agreed with you about much faster, I always found QR codes a bit clunky and slow. However I think the image recognition processes must be improving as the last couple of times I've used them (for TOTP setup) recognition was very fast, < 2 seconds of the camera app. coming on as I was moving the phone into position.

csydas 9y ago

Maybe the data doesn't back this, but as a US citizen I find that most of the time when people refer to credit cards they're meaning their Bank card, which often acts as whatever you define it as at the terminal or it has a default status for quick pay options. There are many people that are happy to just pull out the credit card to buy beyond their means but a lot of the time people are using a card backed directly by their Bank account.

svckr 9y ago
Here in Germany we have a clear distinction between credit- and debit cards. And I guess the culture leans more toward the "saving not loaning" model nickrio describes. So for me it is a conscious decision wether I pay with my bank account or credit. Unlike China however, adoption of digital, low-barrier payments is extremely low here. I mean, hell, we're mostly buying paper bus tickets, while local public transport is sloooowly starting to roll out RFID tickets & readers. All I'm saying is, I find the cultural differences and the impact they have on our day to day dealings (which, on the surface, seem to be the same globally) deeply fascinating :)
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  When I lived to Switzerland, I was pretty surprised my debit card (Maestro) couldn't work on credit card networks (Master Card, heck, the logos looked almost the same!). I'm surprised Germany is so far behind switzerland though, I mean, even when I lived there 10 years ago I could use my debit card via chip in a kiosk and have my train ticket very quickly. I don't think standard Beijing city buses take wepay yet. You still hand over paper bills to the conductor or use your beijing transit NFC card.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - ralfd 9y ago
    What the parent meant is that you get a paper ticket, even if you pay per card at an automated kiosk. Online-QR-code-tickets bought per Smartphone are now common too though.
  - lostboys67 9y ago
    I think it might be cultural as Germany has suffered massive bank crashes throughout the 20th century people trust
- Symbiote 9y ago
  The Nordic countries also have that distinction, indeed credit cards are often charged 1-3% in fees, while debit cards are usually free. That hasn't prevented the demise of cash, and MobilePay, Swish etc are popular for personal and commercial transactions. The RFID card works on all public transport all across Denmark. Sweden has regional systems. I don't know about elsewhere. The leader for this is London, where any contactless payment card works on public transport.
  - lb1lf 9y ago
    To illustrate how widespread the use of debit cards is - the Norwegian National Bank rolled out a couple of new bank notes in late May. Only last week did I actually see one of the new 100kr ($12) bills. Debet card terminals are everywhere, some churches have even put them next to the collection plate - and it is not uncommon to see street vendors using wireless terminals.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

seanmcdirmid 9y ago

I think most people pay their balance off every month in the USA. Credit card doesn't mean borrowing. The big problem with credit cards in China is fraud: banks like ICBC will put the burden of proof on the card holder when a fraud transaction occurs, rather than the merchant as in the west. I really hate ICBC. Anyways, debit cards work just like QR pay does, just like UnionPay already does. The problem QR codes are solving is the lack of a POS terminal and stream lining the swipe. Many countries have an even better technology in NFC contact (including China, many newer UnionPay POS's include NFC, though the card must have a chip to support it). Then you could just glue your debit card to the back of your phone...(or use NFC in your phone via something like Apple or Android Pay).

ajdlinux 9y ago
http://time.com/money/4213757/average-american-credit-card-debt/ http://time.com/money/4213757/average-american-credit-card-d...
sangnoir 9y ago
> Many countries have an even better technology in NFC contact NFC isn't "better technology", just different to QR code. NFC also handles 1 payer at a time whereas QR can handle multiple, in parallel depending on the physical display size.
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  NFC is better than QR codes in many many many ways. You don't have to line up the codes with the phones, paying is much faster, and the "1 payer at a time" limitation is actually the 99.9% use case for payments.
  - raesene6 9y ago
    Until recently I'd have agreed with you about much faster, I always found QR codes a bit clunky and slow. However I think the image recognition processes must be improving as the last couple of times I've used them (for TOTP setup) recognition was very fast, < 2 seconds of the camera app. coming on as I was moving the phone into position.