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Goldman Sachs has always had a ridiculously antiquated dress code for people who will never come within fifty feet of a client. When I was much younger I didn'
by gaius 9y ago
Goldman Sachs has always had a ridiculously antiquated dress code for people who will never come within fifty feet of a client.
When I was much younger I didn't understand the concept of people who never had to deal with clients having a dress code but now I sorta do: the company is trying to create or promote the concept that everyone in the company is a member of the same team and have more in common with each other than they do with outsiders. Whether or not this actually works I don't know, but that's the only thing that makes sense. Same reason I guess the military puts everyone in camo these days, even people well behind the front lines.
- jackmott 9y agoWhen you attain a certain level of enlightenment and become aware of the mind hacks being employed by the powers that be, well then you can no longer stand them. Or, you chose to take part of them and use as leverage to achieve your goals I Suppose.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- sametmax 9y agoThose are not contradictory. You can choose to live most of your life so that you get as much freedom as you can and is important to you. But also use your knowledge as tools to take advantage of your environment. Too many people makes it about conformism or morality. But really it's giving too much credit to it: we are just making animal behavior very sophisticated. It's no use to blame or get angry, or it's good to just do like everyone else. Just make the best of it, it's the reality you live in. And if you want to change it, you need to see it for what it is anyway so starting by that is always a good step.
- ashark 9y agoIf Cialdini's Influence is to be believed, everyone says they don't treat people wearing (or driving) nice stuff better, but subjecting this to scientific scrutiny reveals that they overwhelmingly and significantly do. If that's true then dressing well is pretty damn rational in general, and especially if money's on the line.
- eropple 9y ago100%. I actually grew to like wearing a suit because when you're wearing a suit and somebody else isn't, there's a certain kind of cultural deference you get in many situations that is pretty handy from a business and a social perspective.
- pfd1986 9y agoThat's the exact reason why I hate wearing and even worst ever being forced to wear one.
- eropple 9y agoI've never been forced to wear one in my professional life, so I dunno about that. But I'll wear one by choice on occasion. Even when I was working a day job I'd just wear a suit some days. My boss would think I was interviewing (I wasn't, usually), but it's really just because it is an easy, straightforward confidence boost.
- gaius 9y agoGood to keep your boss on his or her toes too
- eropple 9y agoEhh. Every boss I've ever worked for after my initial out-of-college gig has known that I interview regularly, once every quarter at least; it was never anything personal or because of dissatisfaction, just "I like networking and I like seeing how the trends in the market are evolving". I usually didn't wear a suit to those, though, for the other reason: tech people get weird about well-dressed people and think they're "fakes" or whatever.
- spitfire 9y ago> tech people get weird about well-dressed people and think they're "fakes" or whatever. There's some historical precedence there. Up until ~10-15 years ago the fakers and know-nothings used to always wear suits. They were the guys who pulled the purse strings, but had no clue. Unfortunately, since then they've learnt to mimic the dress of their prey. So now instead of the "empty suit" you have an "empty hoodie".
- nitwit005 9y ago> everyone in the company is a member of the same team A team that includes everyone else outside the company in similar cloths?
- Animats 9y agoGoldman Sachs, though, went so far as to have a corporate haircut.[1] Their barber finally quit out of sheer boredom. [1] https://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/03/06/to-serve-wall-streeters-long-hours-and-exacting-labor/ https://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/03/06/to-serve-wall-street...
- srtjstjsj 9y ago_shear_ boredom
- samstave 9y agoYou're a part of the same team and you need to wear these outfits which you will likely never wear outside of work, but the huge bonus goes to the client favoring sales team, and no - we won't pay for the garb we require you to maintain the illusion that we are all equals! Honestly, one of the things I absolutely love about tech/Silicon Valley is nobody cares at all how you dress. Although, I noticed the sale force offices unofficial uniform: Brown shoes brown belt designer jeans and some dry-cleaned blue shirt and a blazer... "Look at how casually uniquely I conform to the office uniform!" Not judging, I just thought it was funny...
- hkmurakami 9y agoSV absolutely has a dress code. Try showing up to work as an engineer "overdressed" in a casually dressed team and see what happens. Or dress like the sales team when you're part of engineering, etc.
- dboreham 9y agoHa. Just said the same thing above. So true.
- gaius 9y agoHonestly, one of the things I absolutely love about tech/Silicon Valley is nobody cares at all how you dress. LOL the "hoodie code" is 10x stronger than any suit code.
- samstave 9y agoHonest question: how old are you? If you're even the slightest bit concerned with anything anyone is wearing, then you need to focus on something else.
- gaius 9y agoI'm old enough to not care sometimes and to play the game sometimes and to know the difference Tell a suit wearer that they should dress casual tomorrow and they'll say OK. Tell a geek they have to wear a suit tomorrow and they'll freak out. Now tell me who cares more about clothes?
- JumpCrisscross 9y agoCommon dress absolutely drives a certain esprit de corps. The irony in my example is that the corporate code ruined the informal one we'd developed over the years (white dress shirt, fleece or vest and brown shoes with tan slacks or black shoes with light pinstripes). Before the rebellion, I could identify, on the street, our teams (and who were the interns--black suits with skinny ties, almost all of them). Afterwards, each desk went its own separate way. In an office setting, dress is better used as a signal than a driver. If your team isn't, over the years, picking up cues from one another then maybe there's a level of social bonding that you, as the manager, are neglecting to forment. (Or your team doesn't have to be that close to be effective.) Social psychology gives a lot away for free if you're halfway perceptive.
- OJFord 9y ago> white dress shirt It would seem that as an American you refer to a white shirt - but what do you term that which I (as a Briton) would call a dress shirt? (Worn with evening, or the most formal of morning attire. That is, with your -ahem- tuxedo!)
- JumpCrisscross 9y agoFormal shirt, I think.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- OJFord 9y agoThat makes sense, thanks. I've been searching around (self-proclaimed) 'all American' clothing sites - it seems 'shirt' -> 'dress shirt', and 't-shirt' -> 'shirt'. I suppose it makes sense that as a new garment starts to dominate it adopts the shorter name - I haven't really noticed it over here though, except with polo shirts, but even there I'd say the more common contraction is 'polo'.
- Bromskloss 9y ago
- tbihl 9y agoThe camo also helps to hide the diesel and oil (at least until 2019).
- yitchelle 9y agoTotally agreed on the concept, that is why a T-shirt or hoodie with the company's logo on it is usually enough..
- sametmax 9y agoIt makes sense in the military, since as an institution it requires its individual members to have much less freedom and autonomy. But if a company needs to use technics from the military, something is wrong. Life is not war.
- gaius 9y agoThe word "company" itself is military in origin, Latin "companio", soldiers who lived and ate together in a mess/barracks. In the modern day armies still use the term, several platoons make a company, several companies make a battalion. Schools and sports teams also have uniforms, if that helps set your mind at ease...
- sametmax 9y agoI don't think it's sane to mix linguistic origin and social aspirations, especially when it's about comparing the civil and military life.
- gaius 9y agoI don't think it's sane Thanks for your opinion, but you are completely wrong. The military and commercial worlds have been cross-pollinating each other's organisational ideas for centuries. The fundamental problem is the same: one of coordinating large groups of people to achieve a common goal via a hierarchical structure.
- sametmax 9y agoThe way you think is very dangerous.
- quickthrower 9y agoI think the parent is observing reality rather than saying things should be this way in an ideal world.
- 9y ago
- jdietrich 9y agoA strict dress code is a double-edged sword for a professional services company. If your staff look identical, you're actively promoting the idea that they are interchangeable commodities. Think about the private-sector employers with the strictest and most distinctive uniforms - by and large, they're fast-food restaurants. That's not necessarily the brand image that an investment bank might want to portray.
- cbanek 9y agoSo to get the tech vibe, start giving out free Goldman Sachs t-shirts and golden colored jeans to the techies. If you give it away for free, all the techies will start wearing them all the time.
- quickthrower 9y agoI've wondered about that for signalling. Say for example there is a revered tech company in your city. Get their tshirt and people might assume you work there. Go to Meetup and more people may want to chat with you etc.
- srtjstjsj 9y agosee also https://www.quora.com/What-should-I-do-to-marry-a-rich-man https://www.quora.com/What-should-I-do-to-marry-a-rich-man
- aanm1988 9y agoOh please, it's an antiquated set of rules that serves no purpose in the modern workforce. If you want to build a team there a load of other ways that don't require clothes.