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Stop Buying Things and Start Borrowing Them
- jdietrich 9y agoFifty years ago, you would have just knocked on your neighbour's door or asked the guys at bowling night. Wanting to borrow a drill or a tent isn't new; not knowing anyone to borrow it from is a peculiarly modern affliction. I applaud any effort to rebuild our fractured society.
- probablybroken 9y agoIt also used to cost proportionally more of your disposable income; You'd probably be more inclined to borrow an item if it would cost the next month's cash to acquire.
- jgalt212 9y agoindeed, outside of luxury items, things have become very cheap. real estate, health care, and education have become very expensive. As an aside, one can pin the persistence of ZIRP on the Fed measuring the wrong things. https://www.vox.com/new-money/2017/5/4/15547364/baumol-cost-disease-explained https://www.vox.com/new-money/2017/5/4/15547364/baumol-cost-...
- kbutler 9y agoI found this graph in that article particularly interesting: https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/jizjAuIFp6g2ADWJCZv3tfj34cA=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8465151/pricesgoodindex2.jpg https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/jizjAuIFp6g2ADWJCZv3tfj34cA=... The alternative explanation for those items is that items whose price is subsidized and/or not fully disclosed to the consumer tend to rise. The graph shows everything dropping in price except: - shelter (slight rise - real estate is tax advantaged and routinely debt-financed over decades) - medical care (significant rise, and insurance and tax shelter of insurance and government programs hide the full cost) - college (very heavily subsidized, by government, schools, and parents) The other items the article mentions (summer camps, veterinary care, and broadway shows) are all luxury goods. At least if you're not a farmer/rancher for a living. Yes, the thesis that services become relatively more expensive is interesting, but the effect of subsidies and hidden prices is well understood already.
- sotojuan 9y agoI still wouldn't buy a drill today, but I'd consider renting one from Home Depot before asking neighbors (mostly because the idea of asking neighbors wouldn't cross my mind, to prove GP's point).
- grogenaut 9y agoA drill/electric screwdriver is probably the most useful power tool today for a home owner. If you don't own one you likely wouldn't own any power tools. And at a car ride and $20 a day rental it doesn't take long to justify the on sale price. Are you space constrained or do you just not do simple maintenance yourself or is there some other reason my engineer brain isn't grokking. Eg I wouldn't even work on a light switch without a power drill because I don't want to make the literal 200 revolution over 5 minutes per screw to check if it's out. Also it's harder to shock yourself. And to be fair I own not just a drill but woodworking tools and metal working tools (lathe mill) and a 3d printer and cover a laser cutter and a welder that does aluminum. So maybe I'm biased.
- jeffwass 9y ago"Eg I wouldn't even work on a light switch without a power drill because I don't want to make the literal 200 revolution over 5 minutes per screw" 200 revolutions, 5 minutes? What kind of screws are in your light switch? I've never seen one that took a sizeable number revolutions. A quick check suggests 6-32 threading is standard. That means 32 threads-per-inch, so your 200 revolutions means your light switch screws are six inches long??
- ajross 9y agoThis is exactly it. The drill in question is the kind of thing you find on special at Home Depot for $30. Likewise for (just riffing on the stuff I see in the photos in the linked article) the therma-rests and tents for camping, or the collection of board games[1], etc... Basically, the causality in the grandparent's analysis is wrong. We aren't refusing to borrow stuff from our neighbors because we're unable due to some modern affliction, we don't bother because someone gave us that drill for father's day last year. The junk is the cause, not the effect. [1] Which is hardly a new phenomenon. The home I grew up in 40 years ago was drowning in these things too.
- tootie 9y agoHome Depot also does rentals of more expensive items.
- lostlogin 9y agoDoes the US have tool renting places for contractors? The ones here have all sorts of tools, including massive stuff (e.g. Excavators, trench cutting equipment, graders). They aren't particularly cheap to use, but they have what is needed. Excessively dirty or broken tools get refunded too.
- allannienhuis 9y agoYes, both the US and Canada have tool/equipment rental places that are used by both contractors and homeowners for this sort of thing. They're usually focused on the bigger ticket items, but often have smaller speciality items too. The thing that interests me about the maker spaces is that they provide a _place_ for this activity where the equipment is already set up, and a community of people that are interested in sharing their skills. You don't really find that at the commercial tool rental places.
- lostlogin 9y agoCertain tools do get me thinking of the neighbours - angle grinder and welder for sure.
- TheSpiceIsLife 9y agoIs this actually true? Is there anyone here who was an adult in the 60s / 70s who can attest to this? Even then it would be anecdotal. If we've got data let's go with the data. If all we've got is opinions let's go with mine. I'd probably not be inclined to borrow a thing if it cost next month's cash to replace it when I break it. I would be more inclined to hire a thing from a company who hires things. That way, if it breaks, no one is put out.
- osrec 9y agoAgree, the more expensive something is, the less inclined I am to borrow it.
- TheSpiceIsLife 9y agoOr lend it out, for that matter. But even a $10 tool I won't led out. No, you're not borrowing my 15mm spanner because I'll never get it back. That could be less of a problem when you're borrowing it from an actual service like the one in the article. Yeah, that's basically it: I won't borrow or lend out from individuals, but when there's a contract in place (supported by a membership fee in this case) that defines the limits of liability and cost of replacement then it's not borrowing anyway. It is, as someone else mentioned, hiring.
- tonyedgecombe 9y agoI remember my parents lending their caravan to friends in the seventies, they would lend and borrow tools as well. The reason I remember is they were constantly complaining about the state things were returned in, breakages were frequent.
- eloisant 9y agoIn my neighborhood in France we keep lending/borrowing each other stuff all the time. It probably helps that most of the resident are eldery people who accumulated a bunch of useful stuff.
- grogenaut 9y agoI have a random alternate data point. There are a ton of craftsman metal lathes out there from the 20s to 60s. I think more people had way more workshop capabilities. But anecdotally I notice that people prefer to either do metal stuff or wood stuff. They take the same type of tools but don't really cross over (wood lathe really doesn't work on metal and vice versa). Enough so that most people can't afford both, in terms of space or money. Also hot metal chips cause sawdust to go up in flames, sawdust gets all up in your metal cutting oils and coolant, so you have to keep a cleaner shop than usual. As for renting stuff, rental gear is usually beat to shit by people who a) don't know what they're doing, b) are too cheap to pay for the real tool, so they'll use a small sander (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006EKFZQ4/ref=asc_df_B006EKFZQ45036275/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=394997&creativeASIN=B006EKFZQ4&linkCode=df0&hvadid=167129443640&hvpos=1o9&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6325627301628104909&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033294&hvtargid=pla-272778524386 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006EKFZQ4/ref=asc_df_B006EKFZQ450...) rental to resurface their floor when they need a full size one to really do a house (https://www.amazon.com/Clarke-Drum-Sander-Ez-8-Expandable/dp/B000RO7R2I/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1497814348&sr=1-1&keywords=hardwood+floor+sander https://www.amazon.com/Clarke-Drum-Sander-Ez-8-Expandable/dp...) [had a friend do this, but he just under rented and went right back an hour later], or use a drill as a saw, c) or just don't give a shit about the equipment and beat the crap out of it anyway... eg moral hazard. I've rented tools where it looked like it was fine and immediately broke (person glued the pull starter onto the engine when string broke). I then had to spend an hour discussing with the rental place if I broke it. Another time they forgot a part and tried to charge me for it then 20 minutes later found it on the floor. They're generally a good store but it's a shitty market.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- dheera 9y agoWhen I was studying at MIT people would knock on my door all the time to borrow tools, cables, kitchen gadgets, and various other things that I typically had. I didn't mind at all. I think we need to reduce the amount of "stuff" in the world and share more. Since I graduated and in the Bay Area now I realized that my closest friends, and pretty much anyone I knew, is no longer located next to me. Every time I want to borrow something it involves figuring out when someone living 20km away from me will be available, worry about bothering their schedule and making them stay home when they don't want to be, and then spending $25 on Uber rides* round trip to get it, and then another $25 on Uber rides to return it to them later. In most cases I could just buy that drill off Amazon for less than $50 instead. *I don't own a car because I avoid using a car when not necessary (e.g. commuting with a bicycle and public transportation), only need a car for occasional hiking trips and events, and believe in sharing, and my Lyft+Uber+Zipcar+Enterprise costs per month are less than the cost of car ownership.
- Cursuviam 9y agoAs a current student there, it's real useful to be able to hit up a mailing list of your neighbors, when you need to borrow something.
- chuckdries 9y agoWhat is it with MIT and mailing lists? I don't know anyone who doesn't go to MIT that uses them the way my MIT friends do. I go to ASU, the only mailing lists I'm a part of are the ASU Linux User Group and a bunch of MIT lists that I've found my way to.
- dheera 9y agoMailing lists are awesome! E-mail is an open protocol so it's easy to write advanced filters that you can't do with Facebook or other walled gardens. I had an algorithm trained to recognize free food, for example. At MIT they can also double-up as AFS groups so it's easy to control access and message a team without having to update membership in two places.
- Vektorweg 9y agoThe problem is, that you have to move for every new job. Our parents and grandparents lived in the same very spot for decades.
- throwaway2016a 9y agoThis. In the last 10 years I have lived in 7 different places in 5 different cities. Either because I had to move or because my wife got a new job. Most of my friends growing up live in a town I haven't lived within 300 miles of in 13 years. 4/5 times if I make a new friend one of us (sometimes me, sometimes them) moves far away within three years. I bought a house a few years ago so now I have forced stability (moving is too expensive so to make me move it would have to be an incredible opportunity).
- evanlivingston 9y agoYou don't have to move for new jobs, you have to move for the kinds of jobs people on HN want.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- throwaway2016a 9y agoNot necessarily true. I know people who have moved to get low paying jobs at retail stores because the closest place hiring unskilled labor would have been a several hours of driving every day. Not so much any more, I think the market has improved. But still, most of the low to middle income people I know don't live in their home town any more because there simple aren't a lot of job in small town America so they go to cities.
- Avshalom 9y agoOr just getting priced out of your apartment, that 2.5% raise can't hold up against 5% lease increase for long if you were already on the cusp of affordability.
- 9y ago
- mc32 9y agoI think in a time when one might not know one's neighbors well, it might help to have an inventory of things available --we would know who has an awl or a wet vacuum, etc.
- OldPersonPlus 9y agoPlease stop yelling at the clouds, and remember to take your meds.
- ebbv 9y agoThis still happens in my town. It probably still happens in any community where it would have happened 50 years ago and doesn't in ones it wouldn't have happened in. Your view on what our society is like right now is colored by where you live.
- gnicholas 9y agoWhere I live (near Palo Alto), people borrow/loan stuff on Nextdoor all the time. It has been a good way to avoid one-time purchases, and to get to know neighbors.
- fit2rule 9y agoThat is a very salient point. When isn't society being re-built, though? More to the point, those 'golden days' still happen, and are not unique to any particular culture. There are plenty of neighborhoods in the world still yet where these things happen.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- GuB-42 9y agoIt is still done, and it pisses me off a lot. I am usually the one with all the stuff, especially tools. And people tend to borrow from me a lot. I tend to be fine with it, but some people abuse it. They damage my stuff or lose parts and don't offer any kind of compensation, expect me to take care of the return or just forget it, etc... These people are a minority, but they are also those who tend to borrow the most. With this mindset, it is no surprise people get protective of their stuff. At least, a "library of things" has ways of dealing with abusers without endangering friendly relationships.
- drivingmenuts 9y agoI'm not sure this accomplishes any rebuilding though. Sure, it's a place one can borrow things for a fee, but so is Rent-A-Center and the amount of social interaction is the same as any retail store. One might get to know the people there over time, but it's hardly necessary to do so.
- s0rce 9y agoThis is very true, however, in my experience seems mostly limited to apartments/condos, when I've lived in apartments I rarely interact with my neighbors. When I've lived in houses in less dense areas I've always been friendly with my neighbors and frequently borrowed tools, ladders and other household items from them. Go meet your neighbors everyone, make friends and then you don't all need to have a 20ft extension ladder! I wonder if other people have seen the same trend?
- paulkrush 9y agoAI will make sharing like this easier, but at the same time it will make things cheaper. People go camping in Hawaii, buy gear and give it way when they leave.
- Envec83 9y agoIsn't this what the "shared economy" is about? Still, I find it interesting that he managed to raise $30k on IndieGoGo. It signals that people care about those ideas/ideals.
- a3n 9y agoNo, the shared economy is about corporations paying for peoples' time as piece-work, while avoiding or minimizing tax, benefit and liability expenses.
- setq 9y agoI wasn't aware that borrowing things wasn't a thing these days. I'm forever borrowing and lending things. Just yesterday I borrowed a hammer drill from a friend because it's ridiculous buying one to drill some holes for a curtain rail.
- akeck 9y agoI do three things to cut consumption: borrow, rent, and "rent". "Rent" is buy high quality/high value, and resell for a significant fraction of retail when you are done with it. I learned it from a friend at work. She bought a Dell Deal high-end desktop with free monitor. She sold the monitor immediately, which covered most of her layout for the initial deal. Then, three years later, she sold the desktop for about 60% of retail. The items were being enjoyed by new owners, and she recovered the value she put into them.
- icebraining 9y agoAnd I'm the guy who buys those used Dells :)
- joshvm 9y agoThe other option is to buy used items that strongly retain value, like camera lenses. Most of my glass is worth about the same as when I bought it from eBay, because there's nothing that really depreciates and good lenses are good lenses.
- scottLobster 9y agoThis. For me, more mundane examples are what this article actually lists. I heavily researched my camping gear, and with the exception of one sleeping bag that ripped the rest is still working great 10 years later. Same for sunglasses, my vacuum cleaner, tools, etc. Anything not perishable that I buy is a long-term investment. I buy something toward the high end and use it until it pukes.
- therealdrag0 9y agoMy psychological problem is that the market is so cut throat these days a lot of used items are barely listed at a discount. So it's too easy for me to justify buying new for 10% more to get "official" assurances. On the other hand I've been buying only refurbished electronics for a couple years now and have had no problems.
- zanny 9y agoI only buy used cell phones. I have an S5 and Note 4 right now I got combined for half the cost of a new S8, and I got both in mint condition a year ago. You really can't get away with that with laptops or desktops because the need for fans causes a lot of component wear and environments are so divergent you can't trust used sellers to not have a lot of the internals damaged. Or the keyboards and trackpads - heavy wear or use or just abuse and one damaged key can ruin a purchase. Phones are nice and self contained enough that looking at the outside generally tells you the condition of the inside.
- coding123 9y agoIf this gets huge, how will it create net positive number of jobs?
- reitanqild 9y agoIdeally I'd guess because people use less money, can make savings, can start companies/other useful activities.
- jimmaswell 9y agoPeople spending less money isn't good for the economy. It's a component of the downward spiral of recessions.
- tonyedgecombe 9y agoWe aren't here to serve the economy.
- jimmaswell 9y agoThe point in question was if it would create jobs.
- reitanqild 9y agoPeople spending less money isn't good for the economy. As long as they spend it on something else like I mentioned it should be ok.
- SmallBets 9y agoIt's not always about growth. Making it easier to meet your needs like this project does, replaces the need for that piece of income/job/growth so is still an economic positive in that way. This easier path to consumption means the time/effort needed to own these things previously can be redeployed in a productive way.
- kijin 9y agoIt won't, but who cares? Most of the jobs that go into producing these goods might soon be replaced by AI anyway. Meanwhile, by setting up a physical store where people pay a fee to "borrow" things, instead of helping them borrow directly from one another for free, a job has been created for whoever works at the store. The obsession with job creation only goes to show that a lot of jobs are inefficiencies waiting to be eliminated.
- edsheeran 9y agoHow does indemnification work in this case? Some of these tools could be dangerous for weekend warriors.
- kijin 9y agoThis is basically a rental service with a fixed yearly fee, so I guess they could draw up some sort of standard rental contract similar to the one that Home Depot uses. Maybe add some large ugly warning stickers, too.
- TheSpiceIsLife 9y agoHow does that work for sleeping bags or chocolate fondue set? Those are definitely two things I would not borrow from anywhere.
- ghaff 9y agoOutdoor stores and the like rent sleeping bags all the time. Im sure you can rent something like a chocolate fountain from one of those party supply places. A basic fondue set (which you could probably rig up with what you have in a house) is likely too cheap to justify the overhead of renting. That is sort of the classic borrow from a neighbor if you can.
- creepydata 9y agoUm why not? Do you never leave your house? You have never eaten off a plate you don't own? Never been to a restaurant? You've never slept in a hotel or at a friend's house? (I went rouge and bought both dishes and blankets from Goodwill so don't come over to my house.)
- grantlmiller 9y agoI love this overall concept. In LA a startup launched last year that will not only rent you the random stuff you don't need to buy, but they actually drop it off & pick it back up from you (www.joymode.com). They organize it all by experiences (ie not so much about tools) but instead here are things you need for backyard movie night, or camping, or pasta making etc. I'm a big fan of owning fewer things... frees people up to move more easily (not being able to move homes is huge cause of under-employment).
- delinka 9y agoI tend to find that I can't trust those who borrow my things to actually care for my things. They come back absolutely broken.
- alacombe 9y agothis is why you lend your fixer-upper tools (say, the first chainsaw / drill you bought), and keep the good stuff for yourself.
- djsumdog 9y agoI lived in a city that had a Tool Library; similar concept for tools. I once lived out of two bags for 11 months. After living in a one bedroom apartment by myself for about a year, I was surprised just how much I had to sell, give away and git rid of. I even tried to keep in my head that I wasn't /really/ buying anything, but basically renting it until I took off again. I always tried to buy used or from thrift stores whenever possible. http://khanism.org/perspective/minimalism/ http://khanism.org/perspective/minimalism/ http://khanism.org/perspective/return-to-minimalism/ http://khanism.org/perspective/return-to-minimalism/
- mc32 9y agoThis seems apt for very dense locations where the premium is on surface space. Unsure of how cultures might be willing to receive the idea, but given space constraints, the idea might gain traction in Tokyo or Amsterdam, Shanghai, Mumbai, etc. Also take the idea to places where people aren't used to having and owning these possessions --get them while it's still a nascent idea.
- throwaway2016a 9y agoI pay to be a member of the local maker space. But they have a lot of equipment I would never dream of buying (like a plasma cutter and later cutter) and some that I could buy but rather wouldn't (like a 3d printer and a bench oscilloscope). But members break the tools all the time and don't take responsibility for it. Even though there are cameras and people have to swipe their card at the door it still happens. I think one reason sharing is not as common is because people are jerks. I remember when I was a kid we used to borrow each other's NES games all the time and never give them back.
- owlmirror 9y agoStuff breaks, that's a fact of life. Not owning up to it while not the right thing to do is understandable, especially if there is no clear policy or even the risk of having to replace it out of your own pocket. At our maker space we tell people that they should not worry if they break stuff, unless it's done on purpose we pay for it. Because broken stuff is not the problem. Having broken equipment and not knowing about it is. It's frustrating when you discover that a important machine does not work on Saturday evening and can not use it the whole weekend.
- colanderman 9y agoYes stuff breaks, but more often inconsiderate people tend to break stuff they don't own or care about. As another commenter pointed out, I have certain close family members I don't even lend things to, because the items are likely to come back broken or missing. Even with an explanation, it still means I have to pay to replace it. I hate to be so negative about this, because I would love to just be able to share things with neighbors/friends.
- erikpukinskis 9y agoHow would you react if your child broke the things you are remembering? Could you apply that strategy with these people? If not are there other parenting strategies that are more appropriate to use with adults?
- eponeponepon 9y agoPossessions-as-a-Service? No, can't see it taking off. In all seriousness, as others have noted, I see this as a rather damning comment on how badly human contact is getting abstracted away to businesses more and more. It's rather sad that people no longer feel able to just talk to others without some organisation to mediate.
- ball_of_lint 9y agoWhat about things that aren't owned by anyone in your social group, and are too expensive/rarely used to justify buying yourself? Say the chocolate fountain: no one really needs it bad enough to buy one, but if you can sell access to one for some small fraction of that cost it could become a reasonable expense. A similar logic can be applied to a table saw, or to a dremel, or to a soldering iron. This service removes circumstance and adds reliability to borrowing. And maybe it does reflect something sad about socialization today, but that doesn't mean it isn't useful or good.
- ghaff 9y agoThere are rental places for that kind of thing. The chocolate fountain and table saw are good examples. But soldering iron? $15 on Amazon. Dremel is more but is actually a good example of a tool you'll find use for doing lots of things. (And you tend to chew up cutting discs etc. if you borrow so you'll probably need to buy parts in any case.)
- erikpukinskis 9y ago> It's rather sad that people no longer feel able to just talk to others without some organisation to mediate. The alternative, which is dying, is social norms. How do you coordinate large groups of people without communications technology? Norms. You make special hats, and use violence to teach people that you don't fuck with someone in a hat like that. You teach women that they can have an opinion, but if a man disagrees, that trumps their opinion. We think of these as archaic culture, but we needed them for wide scale social control. Now we have technology that allows for instantaneous communication over long distances. So we don't strictly need the norms anymore. And stories come out about how this norm violated such-and-such human right. So it's good that they go. But then there's a vacuum. How do I know whether to be aggressive or subservient around this woman? There used to be a clear answer, now there's not. You lament technological intermediation in these matters, but the truth is we need something. Either all women are subservient, or there is some system that helps us know. The goal is software for consensual interaction. Do you have consent to borrow my Kubota? If you break it and I can't expand my pond, and my family dies, then you probably didn't have my consent. If I am king, then no, you didn't have my consent because I am king. I have the king hat. And I can kill you. Your consent doesn't matter. The path we are on is that all of us every day write tiny softwares that help those around us understand the conditions of our consent. Helps you understand the extent to which my livelihood depends on your actions. Helps me understand the same about you. So that, if we are good people, we know how to behave. Without resorting to "that one has the decider hat". Lamenting the loss of the old way is lamenting a system where nonconsensual things happened all the time. Notably, once we have the new consent tech, property laws are obselete.
- moultano 9y agoI've come to the conclusion that the only reason new baby equipment is ever sold is due to baby showers. There's an extremely liquid market for this stuff since it spends less than a year with each owner.
- sparrish 9y agoThen there's folks like me who have multiple kids and use that baby equipment over and over and over. We just threw away our first portable playpen (broken) after 16 years of nearly constant use (7 kids).
- djhworld 9y agoI saw this the other day http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/magazine-40190007/the-woman-who-wants-you-to-rent-used-baby-clothes http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/magazine-40190007/the-woman-who... It makes sense, I don't have children so I don't know if $55 a month is expensive or not.
- moultano 9y agoSeems more expensive than the alternatives, but that depends how much time it takes to seek out used clothes via friends, mothers groups, thrift stores. If that is time consuming for you then it might be worth it.
- pascalxus 9y agoThis is a great idea. Now, anyone have a strategy for how to get your wife to agree to it? haha.
- marcosdumay 9y agoAnd inflict myself transaction inefficiencies every time I want to do anything? It's hard enough to get enough time to do something, imagine requiring that time to be in commercial hours, prefaced by a drive or walk somewhere, a talk with somebody, then postfaced by the same. And then you forgot something...
- ball_of_lint 9y agoI imagine that for many people, that is far less expensive than needing to buy everything they might need once a year, find storage for it, and go get it/return it/ to that storage. It quite possibly this wouldn't be convenient for something like a set of wrenches which you might be able to buy outright, but for someone who needs them only once a year and has other things to borrow, this could be very reasonable.
- gehwartzen 9y agoI feel this way every time I need the use of a pickup truck. There are plenty of places I can go rent one but the time it takes to reserve it, drive there, do all the paperwork, and then repeat when I return it just doesn't seem worth it most of the time.
- failrate 9y agoMy coworker is one of those guys who is an old man before his time. He loves scotch and working with tools. Sadly, he lives in a small apartment, so he doesn't have a real workspace. I've offered to let him come over for some tool time. We will see if he bites.
- ktta 9y agoHasn't the media been lamenting this exact behavior of millennials though? Houses would be bought previously, now more people are renting, vandwelling or just living with their parents. Less cars are being purchases because of people 'Ubering' everywhere. People rent more stuff thereby slowing down many industries. The future looks glum for many of them (especially the diamond industry) Student loan was shown to be the primary deterrent. Of course what wasn't to blame was that the disparity between median wage and comfortable life is growing. Another thing they fail to attribute this to is that millennials are smarter, avoiding the spendthrift mistakes like large mortgages which tie them down to a place and make them paycheck away from homelessness. source: Just google 'Millennials aren't buying <insert anything here>'
- samhain 9y agoI tried this, and one of the top business insider articles has a similar perspective as your comment here, blaming the baby boomers. http://www.businessinsider.com/baby-boomers-caused-millennials-destructive-spending-habits-2017-6 http://www.businessinsider.com/baby-boomers-caused-millennia...
- ktta 9y ago(I kinda went offtopic but I think it is worth telling) That article seems to be overreaching about what's 'killing' industries a little bit. The industry that's really in trouble is the diamond industry. That industry wasn't mentioned anywhere except a tweet which was dismissed[1] There are downsides (apart from being expensive of course) like forced labor in Botswana, etc. Even if they are specifically advertised as not Blood Diamonds, people just want to get away from that industry. Mossanite is an alternative that is getting popular. This might seem like a very small thing to care about, but I'll say it has wide ranging ripple effects. Millions of people depend on the unreasonable margin that diamonds provide, ranging from specialists to the stores that litter every single town because of course, people had to have a diamond shop. That was more important, than say, a blood bank. On first look, it might not seem economically feasible, but just the absurd lengths people go through to pay for that one diamond keeps the industry alive -- and thriving. Culture is the only thing to blame (or thank) On the flip side of the unemployment that will be caused in developed countries, you have to consider the sheer amount of labor that is put (or forced) in Africa. Because of the value of diamonds, many were forced into labor and that will hopefully go down. [1]:https://twitter.com/UweBollocks/status/748679268599758848 https://twitter.com/UweBollocks/status/748679268599758848 - this tweet was embedded in the article. Shame that it wasn't talked about in detail PS: I'd recommend the movie Blood Diamond http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0450259/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0450259/
- throw_323213 9y agoMoving is definitely an issue here; lugging 10+kilos of tools across voltages and miles is not a particularly enticing proposition. I had an awesome time with the community bike shops both in UW and in North Seattle; even built my current bike there :D Anywho, if you're in Seattle, please do consider helping these people out before their lease runs out in Oct. http://neseattletoollibrary.org/ http://neseattletoollibrary.org/
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- glup 9y agoThinking of this as a caching problem, there need to be hyperlocal borrowing like at the level of apartment buildings or city blocks. The 6-unit apartment building I live in has a shared area in the basement—power tools, a shop vac, brewing equipment, knife sharpener, pentalobe screwdrivers, a weedwhacker, a multimeter, etc.) This complements the tool lending library (which my city has) which furnishes lower frequency needs. The hyperlocal thing is also a nice way to meet your neighbors (oh wow you also have a lot of pentalobe screwdrivers!) and share skills (I just learned how to fertilize houseplants). For higher value items, I've been meaning to extend the above apartment-wide setup with a Google Doc inventory of things that people are willing to share, but want where participants want face-to-face confirmation, like loaning a camera or a mountain bike. I wish there were a way (a social institution moreso than a technical solution) to make quick contracts for borrowing things. I'm privileged enough to be able to replace minor things, but I am definitely relucatant to loan big things if I don't know if a friend can/would replace the thing if something bad happened on their watch. And no I don't want to rent them—I don't like the cognitive overhead of markets, and that's not the point.
- jameskegel 9y agoThis reminds me somewhat of a social conundrum I've been experiencing lately; the thing is, in some cases I love most of my neighbors, however there are always the few who won't/don't value communal items/space. The group of those residents who want to just live harmoniously with their neighbors outnumbers the subset of residents who care enough about the rules to confront those breaking them. The passive group vilifies and subjugates those who try to mention anything to bad actors abusing the space, because they feel it will only rock the boat, and the ones breaking the rules shout the loudest. If this sounds oddly specific, that's because it is- In my community we have a communal pool for our apartment block of 10-15 units. In general, everyone gets along, but there do exist problems where self governance and trust have failed, as far as taking care of shared property. Those who just want to live peacefully are retreating into their homes, those who care enough to say anything have been dismissed by the tenant in question, labeled as racist, bigoted or otherwise are browbeaten by the more fearful tenants into not reporting the problems. In our case, it is a swimming pool, and a struggle with a tenant and her friends who sit around the pool drinking alcohol loudly all day, never once leaving, who enter the shallow end of the pool about twice an hour for 10 seconds, swishing their hands in the water around their waist before they exit. There is a restroom in her apartment which is less than 20 feet from the pool; I'm not positive what's going on in those 10 seconds, but people like myself who's balconies overlook the pool are noting this, and nobody wants to swim anymore because of it. Any suggestions about just talking to the tenant elicit a gasp and dirty look from the pacifist crowd. How would you, dear reader, handle a delicate situation like this? After realizing how futile any complaints would be, I've stopped swimming until I find the respectful and correct way to put a resolution on this. This personal anecdote may have strayed from its target, but relating the situation to the void felt somewhat cathartic.
- TheRealPomax 9y agoStop requiring JS and start serving HTML first.
- audi100quattro 9y agoWe still live in an ownership society AFAIK. Owning your own home, car, the vast majority of products you use pays. Owning multiples of each pays even more. The parts of society where this isn't true is media, and it's a shame. You should buy what you need with the rights you're entitled to, and figure out the difference between what you need and what you really don't.
- ball_of_lint 9y agoWhat about things that aren't worth the cost to own them outright? Take a chocolate fountain: No one needs one, but it might become worth it to buy access to one at some small fraction of it's cost.
- audi100quattro 9y agoI'm not against renting, or something as a service etc.. I'm just saying the benefits of actually owning something you need pays for itself. If you're new to skiing and want to try it out? Rent the gear. Going more than twice a year? I'm sure buying good gear is worth it.
- knorker 9y agoSomeone with a username matching a fairly fancy car manufacturer would think that, wouldn't they? :-) I so don't miss owning a car. If you don't need a car for daily commute then taxis and renting is much much cheaper for when you do need a car. And it's not just the money. The life drain of owning a car is a big cost. If I lived in Houston I'd reluctantly own a car though.
- threesixandnine 9y agoDo you have any children? I owned cars from my 18th birthday and a significant amount of my earnings went into them. Now that I am closer to 40 than to 30 and living at a place that can actually provide me with a decent public transport I can see myself not owning a car but the thing is that I have a kid and really don't want to tell my wife and my daughter that we have to go on a bus or wait for a cab to go to the nearby lake for a nice relaxing Sunday afternoon. Also I lease a car for around 200 GBP per month which is less than what I would pay for public transport. With those 200 GBP per month and for a three year lease tires and maintenance are included. What's not to like?
- Animats 9y agoThere are many tool rental outlets. The tool quality tends to stabilize at "almost broken", but they exist.
- Theodores 9y agoExactly. And the tool hire companies would hire out tents too if they were a thing you could lend out and expect to get back intact. They would probably have board games in there too if the games came back with all the pieces present. Maybe jigsaw puzzles too... Who wouldn't want some recreation amenity items for the crew? So really anything that can be rented out already is and the magic of capitalism means that is at market price already. Plus there is ebay, where else does one go, Craigslist? In these market places people get rid of old hobby gear. It may not be rented or you can see on the purchase as rented indefinitely with a reasonable return deposit.
- alacombe 9y agoNot so much here in Canada, especially for one-time use automotive tools. From the local NAPA store, rentals are too much of a hassle.
- dagw 9y agoI looked into renting a table saw recently and I could basically buy a second hand one for less than what it would have cost to rent for a week.
- gehwartzen 9y agoYup you can very often just buy the tool you need on CL use it for a weekend and sell it to the next person at pretty much the same price. I suppose this is actually a nice model as it forces you to not abuse the tool so you can still sell it for a good price.
- siliconc0w 9y agoI'm fortunate that I actually know my neighbors, we bbq, and we do favors and borrow each other's stuff all the time. This sort of community seems to be getting rare. I like the idea of the 'library of things' but feel like I'd might implement it as a P2P borrowing app to encourage people to talk to their neighbors. The problem is that people aren't 'settling down' and instead are frequently moving around for work. This makes it hard to build up communities with the people around you. Your work becomes your 'stand-in' community - which has it's disadvantages. This has ramifications for health and happiness far beyond borrowing stuff. The studies that show people living longest aren't correlated with western health care or even good diet - it's the strength of their bond with their community.
- EGreg 9y agoShouldn't there be an app for that? If I were to make such an app, how could I get a company to underwrite and provide insurance for these items?
- shujito 9y agoI had to enable javascript to read the article...
- stevenj 9y agoAt first glance, this seems silly and something that is unlikely to ever take off. But feeling that way, at least initially, about a startup that becomes big often seems to share that characteristic.
- epx 9y agoI don't like to borrow things so go ask someone else!!
- wcr3 9y agostop titling articles like this...
- emersonrsantos 9y agoIt's not sharing or borrowing if you pay for it; it's called renting.
- Mister_Snuggles 9y agoMy local public library has a Makerspace[0] with 3D printers, recording studios, plus a bunch of other stuff. I haven't checked it out yet, but it seems like every time I visit the web site there is something new. Plus they're renovating (right now the building has been stripped all the way down to its concrete structure) the main branch of the library, it looks like the renovation will have a pretty big section for the Makerspace. Access is available to library members, and membership is free for Edmonton residents so there's virtually no barriers to entry. There's also the Edmonton New Technology Society[1], which was the original Makerspace in Edmonton. Unfortunately for me, the location means that I'm unable to visit regularly. [0] https://www.epl.ca/browse_program/makerspace/ https://www.epl.ca/browse_program/makerspace/ [1] https://ents.ca/ https://ents.ca/
- jimmaswell 9y agoThe law of headlines applies to commands in headlines too, in my experience.
- grogenaut 9y agoRemember you can always "rent" things from craigslist if you're fine with spending the time hitting "relist" for a few weeks while you wait for someone to buy it. I'm currently doing this with a car for my visiting son. Too young to rent for but not a big deal to buy an old car for 2 months and sell it when he leaves. Basically paid the registration fee for 2 months + gas which is $300 for a 2 month rental. Then the "fun" (which it is to some people) of dealing with cragistlist crazies while selling it. I actually enjoy dealing with the flakes, putting myself in their shoes and getting practice negotiating.
- tome 9y agoI do wonder if this is not the happy medium. If someone wants to borrow my spanner for a few days perhaps I'll just sell it to them for the replacement price with the guarantee that I'll buy it back from them if it is returned in the same condition it was sold.
- jnordwick 9y agoIn finance those types of contracts are called swaps. So there is a precedent :)
- Eridrus 9y agoProbably fine for a spanner, but puts a lot of risk burden on to anyone borrowing the item. Sometimes items just break from wear & tear. Would need to come with insurance from some 3rd party :)
- Kiro 9y agoNaive question: isn't consumption key to economic growth?
- Kiro 9y agoInstead of downvoting maybe you can answer why it's wrong? I put "naive question" since I presume it's wrong and would like to be lectured.
- rekado 9y agoThere's a shop like this in Berlin called Leila (for Leihladen). I very much hope that this idea takes off. Ideally this would not have to be a private enterprise, but could be an extension of the public library systems like it is done in some places in Finland: http://finland.fi/life-society/finnish-libraries-offer-new-adventures/ http://finland.fi/life-society/finnish-libraries-offer-new-a...
- curiouscat321 9y agoA little off topic, but does anybody use Aspiration's products? What do you think of them?
- jecjec 9y agowhy is this page redirecting me to login to squarespace?
- kleer001 9y ago"Access-to not ownership-of" VS "The tragedy of the commons" It's as eternal and essential balance as CPU vs MEMORY.
- m3kw9 9y agoOnly certain things can be borrowed, like one time use things. If it's long term, it's be a better investment to buy than to pay each time
- intrasight 9y agoNow that our local Home Depot does tool rental, I have in that a good option for many tools that I rarely use. But even then you have to be strategic. I rented a gas-powered masonary saw. The cost to rent the blade was just half the cost of buying a new one - so I bought the blade to use with my rented saw. Will be using it again a third time soon. I did grow up on the phrase "he who dies with the most tools wins", so it's taken me some time to transition to rent/loan. But I've got so many tools and supplies now, and I've reached a point in my life where I'd like to do more and own less, and all those tools are now somewhat a burden. I bet I'm not alone and that these tool libraries could probably get a lot of high quality donations.
- bullen 9y agooriginal article 0x"break" HN article 31x"break" nuf said.
- adultSwim 9y agoI love my local tool library. There are a lot of tools that I'll basically only ever use once. Instead of buying them and having them sit on the shelf, I can just check it out (for way less money) Annual membership is about what one cheap tool costs.