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Some Android apps are using ultrasonic beacons to track users
- psyc 10y agoI understand why this sort of thing is uncomfortable, but for the last 15 years or so I've believed that the coming decades will likely see sensors everywhere, doing every imaginable analysis on everything.
- dvfjsdhgfv 10y agoDoes anyone have the link to the actual list? Neither the article nor the original paper seem to list the tracking apps, they just mention McDonald’s and Krispy Kreme.
- smilliken 10y agoHere's the top apps using silverpush: http://mixrank.com/playstore/namespaces/com.silverpush.sdk.android/installs?expiration=2017-06-04&sharedby=scott%40deltaex.com&auth=cc51d4e7dcbd7a1a http://mixrank.com/playstore/namespaces/com.silverpush.sdk.a... Lisnr: http://mixrank.com/playstore/namespaces/com.lisnr.sdk/installs?expiration=2017-06-04&sharedby=scott%40deltaex.com&auth=e0bd45ca91bc2250 http://mixrank.com/playstore/namespaces/com.lisnr.sdk/instal... And shopkick doesn't appear to be for Android. If someone has a link to the docs I can double check.
- wccrawford 10y agoI just saw an ad for Shopkick yesterday on my Android. And this site says it's in Android. http://app.shopkick.com/wr2/6Z48W52-6Z6LIDX http://app.shopkick.com/wr2/6Z48W52-6Z6LIDX Unless it's something else with the same name.
- ungzd 10y agoIs it really ultrasound? Microphones on phones may be able to pick this but what speakers are able to play even 20 kHz? And these apps should always listen, that will drain battery quickly, so these apps will be listed in top power-consuming apps and user will notice it.
- Cyph0n 10y ago18-19 kHz is usually high enough; smartphone speakers can play that fine from my experience. Yes, battery drain is an issue. Most apps use a background service that wakes up at a fixed interval. The longer the interval, the longer the broadcast has to be though, so it's basically a trial and error kind of thing.
- MichaelMoser123 10y agoAnother issue (besides the privacy issue) is that it may be annoying for pets. Dogs and cats can hear these sounds. Also the apps on the phone have access to the microphone (even though they probably do not need this permission for any other purpose), so these apps are all potential listening devices.
- williamtrask 10y agoi'm so glad you said this... made my day
- zdkl 10y agoClock sync? Protocol usually is to check NTP and broadcast at prechosen times if you wanna keep the battery drain down.
- Cyph0n 10y agoI'm talking about the phone receiving a broadcast. The app has to be designed efficiently such that it minimizes network activity and doesn't hog the input audio stream. You also have the issue of trying to maximize the probability that a device in proximity to a beacon will pick up the full message. So you need some redundancy, which obviously increases overhead. NTP sounds like it would work. As you kindly noted, just make sure the beacons broadcast at a agreed upon time and in fixed increments.
- mercurysmessage 10y agoI wouldn't be so sure about users knowing, unless they are told. Plenty of users use apps that drain a lot of battery.
- chii 10y agoThis is why apps that shouldn't need the mic or speaker but still require it should not be installed. Permissions on an app should be checked carefully by a user, and users should be educated in this!
- strmpnk 10y agoThat model is backwards. If there is one thing iOS got right, it's the permission prompt. Nobody reads those lists and it's hard to know what the intent is without context in the app. Having the app ask on first use makes much more sense. It's much less likely to get away with this. Even better, you can still use the app if you say no. It will just get dummy values back.
- Drakim 10y agoOn the flip side, this means you have already installed and committed to having this app on your phone. Lots of people might just press "accept" at that point out of being lazy, instead of uninstalling it and going back to the app store to look for an alternative. If you ask me, both should be in place. When I install an app a list of permissions (and a short text next to each from the developer explaining why they need this permission), along with manual prompting once the app is installed and the thing in question (like the mic) is to be used.
- mrtksn 10y agoAsking for mic permission with no apparent reason is scary, many people will not allow it. Also you can easily change it from the settings. Apps on Apple App Store can't stop functioning just because of a permission is not given. If the app can't perform it's function without a specific permission the developer needs to explain it to the users and ask them to go into the settings and lift the ban. So if an app that does not have a really good reason for asking for the mic, the use can just deny that permission and continue using the app. No need for fishing in the sewage until you find the gold among the sh*t and it's my main reason to use IOS over Android(Though I hear its getting better).
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- eecc 10y agohow is this not illegal?
- esmi 10y agoProbably because it hasn't been litigated yet. However the FTC has issued warning letters to apps which use similar technique. https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/attachments/press-releases/ftc-issues-warning-letters-app-developers-using-silverpush-code/160317samplesilverpushltr.pdf https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/attachments/press-releases/...
- mdekkers 10y agoIt is these kind of "behind your back" shenanigans that will quickly force governments to move to regulating the industry, giving rise to a whinging chorus of "leave us alone" from the industry. An industry that has shown itself to be utterly untrustworthy, sneaky and aggressively invasive. I see a need for a good, simple, slick and solid interface that allows you to select what functions an app can and cannot do on your device, be it laptop, tablet, smartphone, car, whatever.
- hackuser 10y ago> these kind of "behind your back" shenanigans that will quickly force governments to move to regulating the industry These kinds of things have been going on for years, and yet the U.S. government, for one, just reduced privacy protections for consumers.
- mdekkers 10y agoThese kinds of things have been going on for years, and yet the U.S. government, for one, just reduced privacy protections for consumers. True. I have higher hopes for the EU
- Nursie 10y agoSounds a little like one of Powa Technologies ideas before they went boom. Embed inaudible tones in tv content to sell you stuff. Never saw the appeal. But as we know the appetite for tracking is endless, foe some reason.
- hnhg 10y agoFacebook and Google's advertising revenues can give you some idea of the reason.
- tokenizerrr 10y ago> Their results revealed Shopkick ultrasonic beacons at 4 of 35 stores in two European cities. The situation isn't that worrisome, as users have to open an app with the Shopkick SDK for the beacon to be picked up. Wouldn't it be far easier to just transmit a wifi SSID that encodes this information?
- bizzleDawg 10y agoI suspect they wanted to isolate it so that people walking past a store wouldn't be counted.
- npstr 10y agoDon't give Microphone permissions to apps that don't need them.
- _pmf_ 10y agoIs there a physical way to deactivate the microphone (on my tablet, I never use it)?
- Xylakant 10y agoa thin, pointed device may do.
- Snortibartfast 10y agoThe destructive way: open up the unit and destroy the mic, either by prying it loose from the pcb, or just smashing it if it's too integrated. On my Fairphone I think it was a small metal box with a little hole on top.
- dEnigma 10y agoThe top answer to this question[1] has a few suggestions. The dummy plug idea is interesting, although it doesn't actually physically disable the microphone. [1]https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/47345/surveillance-blocking-laptops-microphone-from-spying-on-you https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/47345/surveilla...
- mhandley 10y agoShouldn't be too hard, at least in principle, to enable a low-pass digital filter in the Android audio subsystem. There must already be one there for anti-aliasing when apps demand 16000 or 8000 samples/second capture. Just need to leave the 8KHz low-pass filter enabled for the 99% of us that never use the mike to capture music.
- IshKebab 10y ago> The only good news found in this research was that after searching TV streams from seven different countries, researchers failed to discover any ultrasonic beacons Would that even work? I'm pretty sure modern digital TV audio compression totally removes sound that is vaguely close to 'ultrasound'. I guess maybe smart TV apps could add the signal though, but why would they when they already know what you are watching? It reminds me of a website for one of those annoying 'Mosquito' anti-loitering devices. The sound was provided as an MP3, which was of course totally filtered out by the compression resulting in a totally empty file.
- retube 10y agoSky in the UK have trialed ultrasonic beacons in adverts, so it is definitely possible
- Yetanfou 10y agoThey'd do it to connect profiles between the TV (which knows what you're watching) and any mobile devices within ultrasound reach (i.e. line of sight) of the TV. Do this a few times and it quickly becomes clear which phone is usually within range of the TV, and with that the profiles can be merged, giving a broader view of the user behind these devices. The solution is simple: don't get a 'smart' television. Better still is to forego on television altogether but if you insist on having canned 'entertainment' (panem et circensis) beamed into your domicile make sure to use as dumb a device as possible. Any smarts you require can be added separately, the thing does have external inputs after all. As an added benefit you won't be stuck with a 'smart' TV running yesteryears OS on under-powered hardware while the display and sound system are still good for many years.
- dorfsmay 10y agoReading the title, I thought "ultrasonic" was some evil site that paid for people to use their beacon... Reading the article, it's actually worse! This sort if things should be taught in school, don't give an apps permission to your mic, GPS, camera, contacts, etc... Unless you understand why. Not everybody will write "hello world" in JavaScript in their life, but most people will installed apps on a device.
- ghostDancer 10y agoWould something like taping the micro stop it or the signal would get through it?
- deepnet 10y agoSome sort of aftermarket high bandpass filter on the microphone will be necessary.
- nom 10y agoSide project idea: ultrasonic jammer. It's really simple, just use a piezo speaker and drive it with a small microcontroller (or an analog circuit) to jam the frequencies they're using. The only problem is that dogs and other animals won't like it ;)
- syphilis2 10y agoMy first instinct is that the signal probably doesn't need to be ultrasound. In the same way that my phone will sometimes hear my car radio and falsely hear, "hello Google", I bet the beacon can just be planted on top of the signal and match filtered to a decent SNR. Similar to image steganography, it doesn't need to be perceptible to the listener. Compression issues would exist, but at least they wouldn't be fighting against the transmission hardware.
- sp332 10y agoBut lower volumes would limit the range.
- donclark 10y ago062115 - How to Manage Android App Permissions to Protect Your Privacy http://thehackernews.com/2015/06/android-permission-manager.html http://thehackernews.com/2015/06/android-permission-manager.... beacon-blocking Chrome extension and sample Android (research prototype) patch: http://ubeacsec.org/#Downloads http://ubeacsec.org/#Downloads Silverdog Chrome Extension http://www.thewindowsclub.com/silverdog-chrome-extension-mitigates-ultrasonic-tracking http://www.thewindowsclub.com/silverdog-chrome-extension-mit... Disable Beacon monitoring on a condition in Application http://stackoverflow.com/questions/34486930/disable-beacon-monitoring-on-a-condition-in-application http://stackoverflow.com/questions/34486930/disable-beacon-m... 050217 - https://www.wired.com/2017/05/hundreds-apps-can-listen-beacons-cant-hear/ https://www.wired.com/2017/05/hundreds-apps-can-listen-beaco... 110316 - https://www.wired.com/2016/11/block-ultrasonic-signals-didnt-know-tracking/ https://www.wired.com/2016/11/block-ultrasonic-signals-didnt... Beacon: Phone Tracker https://www.aptoide.com/app/com.fibercode.beacon/beacon-phone-tracker https://www.aptoide.com/app/com.fibercode.beacon/beacon-phon...
- harryf 10y agoDon't think permissions don't really protect you from this. AFAIK you don't need permission to _play_ sounds at least for foreground apps. So that means in a public space, it doesn't matter if your mic is disabled - if anyone _else_ gave permission for an app to use the mic, their phone hear your phone transmitting ultrasound, allowing you to be tracked.
- harryf 10y agoPS that first sentence was supposed to read... "Don't think permissions really protect you from this."
- mfringel 10y agoYou have posted a number of links, but what's your opinion on the topic? Given the link-dump, I'm assuming it's "Technologically savvy people can solve this for themselves, and that's sufficient." Can you clarify?
- aadilmfarooqui 10y agoThis is quite interesting and shocking too that we can be tracked from these apps. My question is, if it is so and many tech geeks here have said that if the mic let's say is irrelevant to the actual context of the application, so why Android App Store does not block this using AI or any intelligence techniques?
- appetizer 10y ago> The situation isn't that worrisome, as users have to open an app with the Shopkick SDK for the beacon to be picked up. False, on Android
- anentropic 10y agoshould be illegal
- tanvach 10y agoYou don't necessary need ultrasound, but a modulation scheme to put the sound energy outside of hearing range. Ultrasound can be unreliable since phones have different frequency response that affects sensitivity. Also compression tends to apply low pass filter, so overall the range is quite variable. To combat this, you can add forward error correction code, and have the audio source transmit data at low bit rate. Also, it's possible to modulate data using spread spectrum sequence (similar to GPS and ultrawideband) to reduce the energy below hearing threshold. The state of the art is not to embed data at all, but use audio fingerprinting, aka Shazam.
- Markoff 10y agoit's interesting research, but there is no list of apps provided, only thing I could find it PDF of research is this: 100000+ SMS Messages Moziberg 2.4 1,000,000 – 5,000,000 McDo Philippines Golden Arches Dev. Corp. 1.4.27 100,000 – 500,000 Krispy Kreme Philippines Mobext 1.9 100,000 – 500,000 Pinoy Henyo Jayson Tamayo 4.0 1,000,000 – 5,000,000 Civil Service Reviewer Free Jayson Tamayo 1.1 50,000 – 100,000 so from those 5 with significant install base are minimum 3 targeted at Philippines market, the other two probably too, though they mention India also note: Within the 1,320,822 Android applications, our scan yields 2 and 1 samples with functionalities of Lisnr and Shopkick, respectively. These samples are either applications that have been released by these companies themselves or by other companies officially collaborating with Shopkick or Lisnr. The user is thus aware of the deployed technology and needs to start the audio analysis manually. so conclusion is, from 1.3mil tested apps, around 230 have this functionality, around 5 have significant user base and all of these are in third world countries (PH/IN). also according research many devices have issues detect these higher frequencies and they didn't find it working in TV streams or European shops. also from those 230 in most of them they use technology of Shopkick and Lisnr where you need MANUALLY start audio analysis. it's interesting research, but let's keep it in perspective TLDR: don't give microphone permission to apps which have no use of microphone
- bri3d 10y agoGoogle Play also pairs with set-top box devices like Roku using an audio mechanism, although I'm not sure if it's ultrasound. A series of audible clicks are present while pairing, so I'm assuming it may be a different audio or environmental-based encoding, maybe even just location -> audio correlation rather than data modulated over any kind of over-the-air carrier. Does anyone know more about how that particular setup works? It sounds similar to the Shopkick app in a lot of ways.
- faragon 10y agoUnethical behavior: let people decide with their wallets.
- esmi 10y agoThis kind of think has been fairly mainstream since 2014. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SilverPush https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SilverPush In 2013 there was PC malware that used this technique to jump network airgaps. https://arstechnica.com/security/2013/10/meet-badbios-the-mysterious-mac-and-pc-malware-that-jumps-airgaps/ https://arstechnica.com/security/2013/10/meet-badbios-the-my...