7 ms·

Send and receive money with Gmail

134 points by nandaja 9y ago

nafizh 9y ago
It seems this has been available since 2013.
jasonkostempski 9y ago
This is going to make gmail accounts a huge target for thieves. Now they don't even have to do the reset password step on your bank login.
- phsource 9y ago
  To be honest, I think email accounts (especially the main ones) have always been a huge target to thieves, since many services still use it as the primary password reset/two-factor authentication method. In that sense, not much has changed.
- theseanstewart 9y ago
  Google should require that 2FA is enabled to use this feature.
Radle 9y ago
Would love to see two things: a) Feature limited on two factor authorization. b) Support for Euro, Germany.
- dbg31415 9y ago
  Agree, this should not be available to people unless they have 2FA enabled on the account.
- johnp_ 9y ago
  c) Support for direct debit instead of having to use PayPal when one doesn't own a credit card
  - pitaj 9y ago
    I believe this works fine with credit/debit cards. I thought all debit cards were credit/debit these days.
du_bing 9y ago
This is amazing! But I only see payment settings for US and UK users, can users from other countries use the service?
- Markoff 9y ago
  no
e12e 9y ago
I was almost expecting this to be a late April's Fool... I guess it's a way to get more people to sign up for a Google account - you can "send to any email" - but that's not really accurate as you need a Google account to send/receive funds. It's not surprising of course, anyone technically inclined would realize this is a wrapper around:you can now place money in escrow with Google and let people know via email. Just like you could probably "send [money] via carrier pigeon" with PayPal...
- nickpsecurity 9y ago
  "I was almost expecting this to be a late April's Fool..." I did, too. The date was the first thing I checked. Well, I guess we can email money around on our insecure devices now. So, with Apple Pay and Gmail Money, we might finally develop something along the lines of WeChat in China where many people are constantly just using mobile to pay each other.
williamstein 9y ago
Can you send and receive money for "non personal use"? E.g., I tried paying some small test consultant fees from my company using Facebook's "send/receive money", and they quickly told me I was violating their terms of usage. I can't tell either way from this Gmail page. Just curious (not that I would actually use things this way, but zero fees can be nice for small transactions).
tonyedgecombe 9y ago
Uh, no thanks.
- Proven 9y ago
  I think so too. Google is the last Co I want to know about my transactions
pech0rin 9y ago
I have been using this feature for a year+. It is an easy way to pay back family members who don't know what Venmo is, but have a gmail account.
hartator 9y ago
Interesting that they use the word "Computer" instead of "Desktop" for non-mobile devices.
- pavement 9y ago
  Laptops fall under the same basic umbrella of usage patterns as Desktops, but are also mobile.
- hackuser 9y ago
  What word would you use for the class of machines that are desktops and laptops? It's a real, if not very important, question that I've never found a good answer for.
  - hartator 9y ago
    Lol, I always on the lookout for an answer to this as well. I use Browsers vs Mobile Browsers vs Desktop Apps vs Mobile Apps if I want to be precise. But, yeah, it's usually confusing.
    - nefitty 9y ago
      At work I ask "Are you using your phone or your computer?" It's generally non-techie people that will get confused and might consider their tablet a "computer", but that is pretty rare.
wehadfun 9y ago
Google should send $10 to maybe a few million or so people to jump start this service
- solotronics 9y ago
  I can take the burden of distribution for them just send me $10mil and I promise to grow an economy via Gmail.
Entangled 9y ago
I love this idea, it can be even bigger than Paypal. Three suggestions: First, make it a mobile app as a simplified gmail with just the recipient, the amount and a memo. That's it. In version two add the pic, avatar or whatever people use. Second, open a new wave of email accounts since all gmail accounts are already taken so people can start using their names or businesses as email accounts again. Perhaps GoMail? And start from day one with two factor authentication so squatters don't start their party. Third, create Merchant accounts and apps so business owners can track thousands of payments a day with tools for money management. This was my dream solution for the mobile payment need but now that Google is going to do it I'll leave it to them.
- Entangled 9y ago
  I firmly believe they have a winner, specially for the small and informal businesses, all they need is to deliver simplicity and security. The pay by email is not as important as the pay by mobile but it can be used to leverage market penetration. Later on add NFC to the mobile app to have a total winner. Now, imagine this mobile app used to pay a taxi driver, a street vendor, a handyman, any and all informal activities that are hard to pay by credit card. Trillions a year. Make it simple, Google, simpler than the suits can ever think of, or I'll be forced to make it with my own bare hands. All this time I've been waiting for a giant to bring mobile payment to the masses just to see Apple fall short and nobody else stepping to the plate. Your time to shine, Google.
  - dajohnson89 9y ago
    Please make your own, so that Google has less of a stranglehold on everything.
    - Entangled 9y ago
      Already did it for the latinamerican market, but haven't launched it and probably never will. Banking is not hard, it's just too regulated for the mere mortal. http://fonpago.com http://fonpago.com
- 9y ago
tehabe 9y ago
I wonder why banks in the US don't just give all of their customers an IBAN and let them transfer money for free or very cheap. They could even give companies those IBANs and let them receive bill payments that way. But I guess that would be too easy and also too European.
- lathiat 9y ago
  Yeah we have exactly this in Australia Can "EFT" an amount from any bank account to any other
- wand3r 9y ago
  Profit. Edit: & security.
- theptip 9y ago
  If you're asking about making transfers electronically inside the US, that already exists -- the system is called ACH. You use your bank's routing number and your account number. It's not as widely adopted for things like bill payments, since the US banking system is quite antiquated (they still use checks for many payments). If you're asking about international payments between US and EU banks, currently you do that using the SWIFT network (i.e. wires). It's $25-30 a pop. And there are significant regulatory and technical barriers to getting this cost down (see the EU's SEPA program for a regional version, and that's with a bunch of countries that have already normalized their financial regulations).
  - XaspR8d 9y ago
    Unfortunately many banks seem to put up arbitrary hurdles to performing ACH transfers, or obscure the fact that they are available. Certainly I've had this issue with Wells Fargo, US Bank, and BoA. I assume this is because a number of them use "free, easy transfers between our customers" as a selling point, which would vanish quickly if it were easy to do between anybody. Sometimes it seems like we're even sliding backwards -- for example Chase used to have a fairly nice person-to-person payment system, but they recently locked it down to people with their own Chase account.
shazow 9y ago
I think this feature has been around since 2013: https://commerce.googleblog.com/2013/05/send-money-to-friends-with-gmail-and.html https://commerce.googleblog.com/2013/05/send-money-to-friend...
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
orschiro 9y ago
Only available in the US and UK, correct?
- amelius 9y ago
  Yes. It's still not possible to email money to an arbitrary country in 2017. Unless you use a currency like bitcoin of course.
leovonl 9y ago
I suggest adding a "in US or UK" to the title.
alexfisher 9y ago
This should totally have support for crypto-currencies. Google should add support for ERC-20 compatible tokens.
prlambert 9y ago
Interesting to see this get traction here today, this article is for the web version which has been around for awhile. But we did just (in March) launch this for Android: https://blog.google/products/gmail/send-and-request-money-in-your-gmail-app-android/ https://blog.google/products/gmail/send-and-request-money-in... & https://techcrunch.com/2017/03/14/you-can-now-send-and-request-money-in-gmail-on-android/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/03/14/you-can-now-send-and-reque...
- ncr100 9y ago
  No money transfers for me. My account is now considered for "business" regardless of me considering my personal account as "personal": "Wallet can't be used: This could be because Google Wallet isn't supported in your country or because you're using a business account. To see your purchases from Google Play and other products, go to the payments center." I've unintentionally "poisoned" my personal Gmail account by adding Android Developer capabilities to it. An unexpected negative side-effect. Google has under-designed its Account concept asserting an account is entirely for business if it's merely associated with an Android Marketplace capability. Google should really support multiple roles for an account. At the least, caution users when adding Android Developer Marketplace capabilities to Gmail accounts about the new limitations this choice will impose.
CGamesPlay 9y ago
After reading a horror story of Facebook completely locking out someone's account for allegedly doing Marketplace fraud, I'm extremely dubious of services adding financial stuff into their existing offering. Imagine being accused of fraud and losing all access to your GMail information.
- vollmond 9y ago
  Google already has a history of that with AdSense, I believe. I think HN has seen stories of total Google lockout over AdSense disputes.
  - funnyfacts365 9y ago
    I don't think so... I managed to get banned twice from AdSense and I still use all the other google services with the accounts that got banned.
skummetmaelk 9y ago
So now Google will tell advertisers how much you are willing to pay for products too. Paving the way for omnipresent Amazon(tm) price adjustment based on user history.
nilved 9y ago
This is EEE.
theptip 9y ago
As anyone with experience in payments will tell you, this is the easy part (and should explain why Google hasn't expanded the coverage in the four years they have been offering this). The reason that payments systems are all either expensive or inconvenient (usually both) is that the regulatory systems that underpin the international movement of money are very complicated, and are different in each country. Getting payments to users in the US and UK is relatively easy; you'll need a business entity in each country and you'll also need to register with the regulators in each country (e.g. as a MSB in the USA, requiring a $1m bond in some states). Note the phrase "relative"; this is not something that a couple kids from Stanford can disrupt, you need expensive lawyers and banking contacts. You can run all of that from your office in Mountain View though. You'll also need to comply with various "know your customer" regulations; the US government will not be happy if you wire money to O. Bin Laden, or anyone else on the OFAC watchlist. And even if you're sending money to a "gmail UK" email address, you will need some way of proving that you're not sending money to countries that have sanctions/restrictions on capital flows like Iran and North Korea. That's the easy part. If you actually try to make a serious international play, then you'll need a sizable team in each region that you want to do business in. The Eurozone is relatively easy to cover, but your regulatory requirements in South American countries will probably require one or two people per country (that's to keep your bank relationships warm, and to keep up with all of the paperwork that's required to operate a money transmitter business). This is why Paypal charges merchant fees of 4.4% _plus forex fee_ to receive money from an arbitrary country in the world. This system is hugely complex, and very resistant to change, due to the serious consequences of making a regulatory error.
- ilanco 9y ago
  Is PayPal being subjected to those laws? After all they are not a bank.
  - fragmede 9y ago
    Only in the US. In the EU, they're registered as a Luxembourg-based bank. http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20070515005225/en/PayPal-Expands-European-Growth-Bank-Charter-European http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20070515005225/en/PayP...
zuron7 9y ago
For those of you interested in Financial Technology and money transfer. Check out the UPI system in India. It's basically an API for banks. It's designed in a way that start ups can approach it. Each user can pick up an ID, say zuron7@bankname and transact with it. [0] https://indiastack.org/upi/ https://indiastack.org/upi/
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
MichaelBurge 9y ago
Here's the list of things you're prohibited from using it for: https://support.google.com/payments/merchant/answer/75724?visit_id=1-636291834113321106-107927709&payments_to_biz=&rd=1 https://support.google.com/payments/merchant/answer/75724?vi...
- tyingq 9y ago
  "Travel packages and offers" is the odd man out on there. I wonder what the issue is.
tyingq 9y ago
I would love a credible competitor to Paypal. Google's branding, though, is confusing and may hold this back. There's Google Wallet, Android Pay, and now this. This is probably related to one of the previously mentioned ideas, but it isn't mentioned on the page.
- imrehg 9y ago
  Trying it out, seems like it's powered by Google Wallet, so there should be at least some convergence, hopefully?
  - tyingq 9y ago
    Yes, it's mostly a market messaging thing. Like when they killed Google checkout and said "some" functionality went to Google Wallet. They really need a more consistent brand and message if they want the general public using these things. Oh, and they are also shutting down the somewhat related "trusted stores" program.

134 points by nandaja 9y ago

It seems this has been available since 2013.

This is going to make gmail accounts a huge target for thieves. Now they don't even have to do the reset password step on your bank login.

phsource 9y ago
To be honest, I think email accounts (especially the main ones) have always been a huge target to thieves, since many services still use it as the primary password reset/two-factor authentication method. In that sense, not much has changed.
theseanstewart 9y ago
Google should require that 2FA is enabled to use this feature.

Radle 9y ago

Would love to see two things: a) Feature limited on two factor authorization. b) Support for Euro, Germany.

dbg31415 9y ago
Agree, this should not be available to people unless they have 2FA enabled on the account.
johnp_ 9y ago
c) Support for direct debit instead of having to use PayPal when one doesn't own a credit card
- pitaj 9y ago
  I believe this works fine with credit/debit cards. I thought all debit cards were credit/debit these days.

du_bing 9y ago

This is amazing! But I only see payment settings for US and UK users, can users from other countries use the service?

Markoff 9y ago
no

e12e 9y ago

I was almost expecting this to be a late April's Fool... I guess it's a way to get more people to sign up for a Google account - you can "send to any email" - but that's not really accurate as you need a Google account to send/receive funds. It's not surprising of course, anyone technically inclined would realize this is a wrapper around:you can now place money in escrow with Google and let people know via email. Just like you could probably "send [money] via carrier pigeon" with PayPal...

nickpsecurity 9y ago
"I was almost expecting this to be a late April's Fool..." I did, too. The date was the first thing I checked. Well, I guess we can email money around on our insecure devices now. So, with Apple Pay and Gmail Money, we might finally develop something along the lines of WeChat in China where many people are constantly just using mobile to pay each other.

williamstein 9y ago

Can you send and receive money for "non personal use"? E.g., I tried paying some small test consultant fees from my company using Facebook's "send/receive money", and they quickly told me I was violating their terms of usage. I can't tell either way from this Gmail page. Just curious (not that I would actually use things this way, but zero fees can be nice for small transactions).

tonyedgecombe 9y ago

Uh, no thanks.

Proven 9y ago
I think so too. Google is the last Co I want to know about my transactions

pech0rin 9y ago

I have been using this feature for a year+. It is an easy way to pay back family members who don't know what Venmo is, but have a gmail account.

hartator 9y ago

Interesting that they use the word "Computer" instead of "Desktop" for non-mobile devices.

pavement 9y ago
Laptops fall under the same basic umbrella of usage patterns as Desktops, but are also mobile.
hackuser 9y ago
What word would you use for the class of machines that are desktops and laptops? It's a real, if not very important, question that I've never found a good answer for.
- hartator 9y ago
  Lol, I always on the lookout for an answer to this as well. I use Browsers vs Mobile Browsers vs Desktop Apps vs Mobile Apps if I want to be precise. But, yeah, it's usually confusing.
  - nefitty 9y ago
    At work I ask "Are you using your phone or your computer?" It's generally non-techie people that will get confused and might consider their tablet a "computer", but that is pretty rare.

wehadfun 9y ago

Google should send $10 to maybe a few million or so people to jump start this service

solotronics 9y ago
I can take the burden of distribution for them just send me $10mil and I promise to grow an economy via Gmail.

Entangled 9y ago

I love this idea, it can be even bigger than Paypal. Three suggestions: First, make it a mobile app as a simplified gmail with just the recipient, the amount and a memo. That's it. In version two add the pic, avatar or whatever people use. Second, open a new wave of email accounts since all gmail accounts are already taken so people can start using their names or businesses as email accounts again. Perhaps GoMail? And start from day one with two factor authentication so squatters don't start their party. Third, create Merchant accounts and apps so business owners can track thousands of payments a day with tools for money management. This was my dream solution for the mobile payment need but now that Google is going to do it I'll leave it to them.

Entangled 9y ago
I firmly believe they have a winner, specially for the small and informal businesses, all they need is to deliver simplicity and security. The pay by email is not as important as the pay by mobile but it can be used to leverage market penetration. Later on add NFC to the mobile app to have a total winner. Now, imagine this mobile app used to pay a taxi driver, a street vendor, a handyman, any and all informal activities that are hard to pay by credit card. Trillions a year. Make it simple, Google, simpler than the suits can ever think of, or I'll be forced to make it with my own bare hands. All this time I've been waiting for a giant to bring mobile payment to the masses just to see Apple fall short and nobody else stepping to the plate. Your time to shine, Google.
- dajohnson89 9y ago
  Please make your own, so that Google has less of a stranglehold on everything.
  - Entangled 9y ago
    Already did it for the latinamerican market, but haven't launched it and probably never will. Banking is not hard, it's just too regulated for the mere mortal. http://fonpago.com http://fonpago.com
9y ago

tehabe 9y ago

I wonder why banks in the US don't just give all of their customers an IBAN and let them transfer money for free or very cheap. They could even give companies those IBANs and let them receive bill payments that way. But I guess that would be too easy and also too European.

lathiat 9y ago
Yeah we have exactly this in Australia Can "EFT" an amount from any bank account to any other
wand3r 9y ago
Profit. Edit: & security.
theptip 9y ago
If you're asking about making transfers electronically inside the US, that already exists -- the system is called ACH. You use your bank's routing number and your account number. It's not as widely adopted for things like bill payments, since the US banking system is quite antiquated (they still use checks for many payments). If you're asking about international payments between US and EU banks, currently you do that using the SWIFT network (i.e. wires). It's $25-30 a pop. And there are significant regulatory and technical barriers to getting this cost down (see the EU's SEPA program for a regional version, and that's with a bunch of countries that have already normalized their financial regulations).
- XaspR8d 9y ago
  Unfortunately many banks seem to put up arbitrary hurdles to performing ACH transfers, or obscure the fact that they are available. Certainly I've had this issue with Wells Fargo, US Bank, and BoA. I assume this is because a number of them use "free, easy transfers between our customers" as a selling point, which would vanish quickly if it were easy to do between anybody. Sometimes it seems like we're even sliding backwards -- for example Chase used to have a fairly nice person-to-person payment system, but they recently locked it down to people with their own Chase account.

shazow 9y ago

I think this feature has been around since 2013: https://commerce.googleblog.com/2013/05/send-money-to-friends-with-gmail-and.html https://commerce.googleblog.com/2013/05/send-money-to-friend...

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

orschiro 9y ago

Only available in the US and UK, correct?

amelius 9y ago
Yes. It's still not possible to email money to an arbitrary country in 2017. Unless you use a currency like bitcoin of course.

leovonl 9y ago

I suggest adding a "in US or UK" to the title.

alexfisher 9y ago

This should totally have support for crypto-currencies. Google should add support for ERC-20 compatible tokens.

prlambert 9y ago

Interesting to see this get traction here today, this article is for the web version which has been around for awhile. But we did just (in March) launch this for Android: https://blog.google/products/gmail/send-and-request-money-in-your-gmail-app-android/ https://blog.google/products/gmail/send-and-request-money-in... & https://techcrunch.com/2017/03/14/you-can-now-send-and-request-money-in-gmail-on-android/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/03/14/you-can-now-send-and-reque...

ncr100 9y ago
No money transfers for me. My account is now considered for "business" regardless of me considering my personal account as "personal": "Wallet can't be used: This could be because Google Wallet isn't supported in your country or because you're using a business account. To see your purchases from Google Play and other products, go to the payments center." I've unintentionally "poisoned" my personal Gmail account by adding Android Developer capabilities to it. An unexpected negative side-effect. Google has under-designed its Account concept asserting an account is entirely for business if it's merely associated with an Android Marketplace capability. Google should really support multiple roles for an account. At the least, caution users when adding Android Developer Marketplace capabilities to Gmail accounts about the new limitations this choice will impose.

CGamesPlay 9y ago

After reading a horror story of Facebook completely locking out someone's account for allegedly doing Marketplace fraud, I'm extremely dubious of services adding financial stuff into their existing offering. Imagine being accused of fraud and losing all access to your GMail information.

vollmond 9y ago
Google already has a history of that with AdSense, I believe. I think HN has seen stories of total Google lockout over AdSense disputes.
- funnyfacts365 9y ago
  I don't think so... I managed to get banned twice from AdSense and I still use all the other google services with the accounts that got banned.

skummetmaelk 9y ago

So now Google will tell advertisers how much you are willing to pay for products too. Paving the way for omnipresent Amazon(tm) price adjustment based on user history.

nilved 9y ago

This is EEE.

theptip 9y ago

As anyone with experience in payments will tell you, this is the easy part (and should explain why Google hasn't expanded the coverage in the four years they have been offering this). The reason that payments systems are all either expensive or inconvenient (usually both) is that the regulatory systems that underpin the international movement of money are very complicated, and are different in each country. Getting payments to users in the US and UK is relatively easy; you'll need a business entity in each country and you'll also need to register with the regulators in each country (e.g. as a MSB in the USA, requiring a $1m bond in some states). Note the phrase "relative"; this is not something that a couple kids from Stanford can disrupt, you need expensive lawyers and banking contacts. You can run all of that from your office in Mountain View though. You'll also need to comply with various "know your customer" regulations; the US government will not be happy if you wire money to O. Bin Laden, or anyone else on the OFAC watchlist. And even if you're sending money to a "gmail UK" email address, you will need some way of proving that you're not sending money to countries that have sanctions/restrictions on capital flows like Iran and North Korea. That's the easy part. If you actually try to make a serious international play, then you'll need a sizable team in each region that you want to do business in. The Eurozone is relatively easy to cover, but your regulatory requirements in South American countries will probably require one or two people per country (that's to keep your bank relationships warm, and to keep up with all of the paperwork that's required to operate a money transmitter business). This is why Paypal charges merchant fees of 4.4% _plus forex fee_ to receive money from an arbitrary country in the world. This system is hugely complex, and very resistant to change, due to the serious consequences of making a regulatory error.

ilanco 9y ago
Is PayPal being subjected to those laws? After all they are not a bank.
- fragmede 9y ago
  Only in the US. In the EU, they're registered as a Luxembourg-based bank. http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20070515005225/en/PayPal-Expands-European-Growth-Bank-Charter-European http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20070515005225/en/PayP...

zuron7 9y ago

For those of you interested in Financial Technology and money transfer. Check out the UPI system in India. It's basically an API for banks. It's designed in a way that start ups can approach it. Each user can pick up an ID, say zuron7@bankname and transact with it. [0] https://indiastack.org/upi/ https://indiastack.org/upi/

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

MichaelBurge 9y ago

Here's the list of things you're prohibited from using it for: https://support.google.com/payments/merchant/answer/75724?visit_id=1-636291834113321106-107927709&payments_to_biz=&rd=1 https://support.google.com/payments/merchant/answer/75724?vi...

tyingq 9y ago
"Travel packages and offers" is the odd man out on there. I wonder what the issue is.

tyingq 9y ago

I would love a credible competitor to Paypal. Google's branding, though, is confusing and may hold this back. There's Google Wallet, Android Pay, and now this. This is probably related to one of the previously mentioned ideas, but it isn't mentioned on the page.

imrehg 9y ago
Trying it out, seems like it's powered by Google Wallet, so there should be at least some convergence, hopefully?
- tyingq 9y ago
  Yes, it's mostly a market messaging thing. Like when they killed Google checkout and said "some" functionality went to Google Wallet. They really need a more consistent brand and message if they want the general public using these things. Oh, and they are also shutting down the somewhat related "trusted stores" program.