21 ms·
System76 is moving product design and manufacturing in house
- DeepYogurt 9y agoYa you guys! Looking forward to some custom designs. Do a thinkpad x200 style (no pop down ethernet port) and you will have my money.
- joatmon-snoo 9y agoThey're doing desktops first but I do have to agree here. My daily is a x220 and I'm a big fan of the industrial yet slick feel of the machine.
- amiga-workbench 9y agoOptional Trackpad too, I like my X201's cleanliness without one.
- artellectual 9y agoDon't be shy to look at what Apple is doing. They got it right! I would be happy to pay premium for an excellent build quality linux laptop.
- d0vs 9y agoApple build overpriced low-end perf laptops with high build quality, I'd rather have performance at a way lower price.
- johnzim 9y agoProblem is: you're already pretty well catered to I should imagine. That's literally 90% of the OEM Laptop market competition.
- mafro 9y agoDownvoted: opinion presented as fact
- d0vs 9y agoCompare the cheapest Mac ($1000) to an $800 ASUS: https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-air https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-air https://www.amazon.com/i5-6300HQ-keyboard-Microsoft-signature-Anti-Glare/dp/B01LXCBXQO/ https://www.amazon.com/i5-6300HQ-keyboard-Microsoft-signatur... The ASUS has: - a larger screen - a better CPU - a better GPU - as much memory - more storage
- H4CK3RM4N 9y agoThe MacBook Air is an outdated product. The closest real comparison is the MacBook Pro to the Surface Pro, in which case the MacBook is better at every price tier(expect for the touchscreen which is totally useful).
- adrianN 9y ago...an outdated product for $1k.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- sanswork 9y ago-disappointing screen quality(size isn't the only thing that matters) -twice the weight -1/4th the battery hours -one of the worst touch pads around
- elnygren 9y agoThe problem with this is that you either do something like what Apple does (and receive the hate for it) or then you do "what people want" and get this https://twitter.com/JonyIveParody/status/850350499840888833 https://twitter.com/JonyIveParody/status/850350499840888833 AFAIK this whole System 76 blew up because of the disappointment in the newest Macbook Pro. People say they'd wanted bigger battery and more connectors -- however, I'm a bit skeptical if those would be enough to choose a much heavier, uglier and bulkier model when actually buying a laptop. The way laptops are built, I'm not sure a 10-20% increase in battery size would mean only a small change in the size of the laptop (everything fits pretty tight in there...).
- aarmenaa 9y agoThe previous model of the Retina Macbook Pro 15" (the one without the touchbar) had a 99 watt hour battery, which is right at the limit for what they'll allow you to take on a plane. The new one with the touchbar is 76 watt hours. I have a pre-touchbar model and it's more than thin enough. It can be done. To my mind, the question is can a company that doesn't have Apple's resources manufacture on the same level as Apple? I'm not sure.
- frou_dh 9y agoReminds me of the hassle it was to internationally get hold of a nice replacement battery for a MBP-17 (OWC 103Wh). Lines being drawn at nice round numbers are understandable but can be galling!
- ianai 9y agoI don't think that's a fair target for a laptop startup. I'm thinking Linux devs would benefit more from and prefer something of a thinkpad clone. Added bulk for modularity and maybe ease of manufacture.
- crazy2be 9y agoFallacy of the excluded middle. They can do something more than Apple (i.e. not just USB-C ports), but less than others. The Apple design doesn't end up being small or light, because to actually use it you need a plethora of connectors. At a minimum, I would expect standard USB, headphone, sd card reader, standard HDMI, mini displayport. You're going to have a hard time convincing me that an HDMI connector adds more than a few grams of weight. Thickness, maybe. But even then. VGA and ethernet could be nice too, but wouldn't see much use in my case. The battery could be removable (i.e. half internal half external, like the thinkpads). Optical drive is obviously not much use in a laptop anymore and should be external. (this one actually adds weight and not just thickness)
- sniglom 9y agoLooked at the specs for the Galago Pro. Would be nice to see more details. What's the panel type for the screen? What is the battery capacity and the estimated battery life? What kind of wifi is inside? Is it 802.11ac, 3x3 MIMO? What ports does it have for storage, is it 2.5" sata, m.2 or both? Edit: When customizing the machine I can see that it has m.2 and 2.5" sata. The wifi is 802.11ac 2x2 or 3x3.
- wuschel 9y agoI am looking to replace my good old faithful IBM X61. Currently, size wise, it's only the 2016 Macbook that has made an impression on my eye - and I am not really happy with putting so much money on the table for a sub-par performance notebook. I like the hardware specs of the Galago Pro. Unfortunately, I can't say that for the design. So much wasted real estate (e.g. screen).
- josephpmay 9y agoI wish System 76 the best of luck, and it appears as they're now the main developer/sponsor of RedoxOS, which really excites me, but for some reason this blog post reads to me to have a healthy dose of naivety to it. It seems like they want to have their cake and eat it too. They talk about "robots and automation!" but do they actually know how to run a modern factory? Can the demand for desktop Linux systems actually support what they want to build? This is going to take a huge amount of scaling and hiring, and I hope this means that they're taking in significant VC funding.
- richardwhiuk 9y agoI hope they aren't taking on VC funding. Linux PCs is hardly likely to see a hockey stick growth curve, and I don't want to see a Linux PC manufacturer be forced to sell itself due to over-promising to a VC.
- billsmithaustin 9y agoI see the main developer works for System76, and System76 says RedoxOS is his "personal project", but does that imply System76 is sponsoring RedoxOS? Or does it mean they have an employee who works on RedoxOS at home?
- SunShiranui 9y agoIt's nice to see this - I'm definitely interested in seeing computers built and designed for Linux. I must say, however, I don't see that need for desktops. Custom desktops are relatively easy to build, even for customers. A well designed linux laptop, with no driver issues, good build quality, that doesn't sacrifice performance for thinness? That's what I'm missing.
- sniglom 9y agoWell, I have no issues building a desktop, but if somebody asked me about what (modern) components to choose for no driver issues, I wouldn't know. Avoiding issues and getting support could certainly be worth something.
- noir_lord 9y agoI find that buying 6mths behind just under the state of the art gets you 90% of the performance often for half the cost. I've been custom building my desktops since the 90's and I can't remember the last time I had an issue with hardware, I think it was a Geforce MX440 so ~2003. The driver story on desktop hardware for Linux is absolutely great (in my experience) if the hardware has been out 6mths or more or uses a core chipset/device that has.
- enibundo 9y agoNice, isn't this 'lil bit expensive?
- lvh 9y agoA lot of the target market is buying MBPs right now, demonstrating that they're not particularly price-sensitive. The new Galapago Pro is significantly cheaper than a similarly-specced MBP.
- enibundo 9y agoI had to google MBP :). I would buy none of these two btw, unless they tell me that they didn't rip off little children in some remote place... In that case I'd even pay lil bit extra.
- Theodores 9y agoNowadays I use Intel NUC boxes for Ubuntu LTS - stick in RAM and M2 disk and that is it, all done. I don't see myself moving to System 76 unless they bring out an exceptional product. For instance, if they did a desktop that contained two motherboards, one for a 'server' and one for a 'client', then that would really help build web apps where you don't want your 'server' to be slowed down by your IDE, browser tabs and everything else 'client'. Such a system would have to have a SGI style unified file system that was quick from either client or server side, i.e. no NFS mounts. Given that no such PC has ever existed(!) I don't see System 76 coming up with something crazy niche that 'every developer must have'.
- inimino 9y agoIf your server is slowed that much by your development environment, it's going to have a hard time dealing with (N>1) actual users. General purpose computers are good enough, it seems unlikely the days of exotic machines and workstations will come back.
- H1Supreme 9y agoI use an intel Nuc as a Linux box running Ubuntu LTS as well. As you stated, everything worked perfect right out of the box. Which makes me think: Since a NUC is essentially laptop hardware, why hasn't anyone thrown these components in a laptop case, and be done with it?
- nkkollaw 9y agoInteresting. System76 is not known to do they things they say in the article, though, like building laptops that work perfectly on Ubuntu and will work with future generations. Hopefully their design will improve, too.
- gnud 9y agoI'm currently looking for my next linux laptop. Unfortunately, system76 is out because it doesn't seem like they offer any other keyboard layouts than US?
- Morgawr 9y agoI bought a System76 laptop 5 years ago, still use it today. It's not perfect and I had some issues in the past but it's still going strong. I did buy it with a UK keyboard layout and back then it was an option, I'm not sure if things have changed since then though.
- gnud 9y agoI can't find any option when configuring their laptops, at least.
- pawadu 9y agowait, UK and US layouts are not the same?
- trymas 9y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_and_American_keyboards https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_and_American_keyboards
- nommm-nommm 9y agoMy US keyboard doesn't have a £ or € key which I'd imagine a British one to need at least £.
- Keyframe 9y agoBig Enter key master race on the physical front! Most (all?) European keyboard layouts have big physical Enter key.
- notthemessiah 9y agoThis could be for you: https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/index.php https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/index.php
- looserof7 9y agoI hope system76 will build there desktops and laptops using Amd Ryzen.
- headmelted 9y agoI'm not really sure what's being said here, though? They're going to build better computers in a few years, is the message I got from it. Are they showing/announcing anything today? Side note: is the Bonobo really rocking dual GTX 1080's? Like the full-size desktop 1080's? I don't game as much as I once did so I'm behind the times on mobility graphics (I understand they've come a long way), but that really impresses me.
- nailer 9y agoThey're OSSing all their CAD and making the machines themselves for one thing.
- morganvachon 9y agoWith the 10xx series Nvidia has done away with mobile versions of their chips; now if your laptop has a 10xx chip it is the same one as the desktop card. I love this concept; it does away with confusion on the consumer's part. Previously if you bought a laptop with a GTX 980M, you'd expect based on the model number to get desktop GTX 980 performance, when you're actually getting desktop GTX 670 performance. With the new system, you buy a laptop with a 1080 and you get a 1080 performance-wise (minus some thermal throttling of course).
- ianai 9y agoI really hope they laser focus on one, solid model. And I wish it was a laptop. Who does desktops anymore?
- spir 9y agoCongrats! Looking forward to being a customer.
- francis-io 9y agoI hope you guys have lots of success, we really need more options for linux on a laptop. I don't know if I'm the only one, but I really want a 13 inch laptop thats thin/ultrabook format, with low specs and only a HD screen. All I do each day is use a browser and SSH into other machines, I don't need an i5/i7 processor and HiDPI display to do that. My ideal laptop would be an XPS 13 sized laptop, with a 1080p screen, i3 processor, 8GB of RAM and as much battery life increases as possible.
- sz4kerto 9y agoGet a refurbished X220 or an X250.
- wapz 9y agoCan't you pick up an XPS or thinkpad with essentially your ideal specs and linux? The one thing is you won't get great battery life on the ultrabooks because they usually have smaller 4 cell batteries I believe.
- Johan-bjareholt 9y agoNo great battery life on ultrabooks? Have you ever even used one? The XPS has one of the best battery life on the market and other thin laptops like chromebooks have great batterylife while still being thin. The reason why 11-14" ultrabooks have good battery life is very simple: SSDs take up less space and are more efficient, iGPUs take up no space and are more efficient and no DVD drive taking up space. I love my Chromebook with coreboot and archlinux, but I need a upgrade to a 1080p screen and more than 4gb of ram without having to pay $1000 for a overpriced laptop with a dual-core i7.
- wapz 9y agoI only got about 4 hours on an older ultrabook (about 5 years ago) with an SSD. I'm not sure what you get these days but under in the 3.5-4.5 hour range isn't very good IMO.
- stevehb 9y ago
- afandian 9y agoThey seem to be a step ahead of Starbucks http://www.theonion.com/article/starbucks-to-begin-sinister-phase-two-of-operation-416 http://www.theonion.com/article/starbucks-to-begin-sinister-...
- chrisan 9y agoWe're all Systems now
- ilaksh 9y agoReally like the idea of computers built for Linux, but I configured a system on their site and it came out to $3000, whereas when I added the components up it seems like less than $2500. So I'm not sure there is quite enough incentive for me to pay the extra $500.
- mstade 9y agoIf that extra $500 comes with solid support, down to calling a rep and having a replacement box show up the same or next day, then it's a no-brained for any kind of professional. If I lose a couple of days to having to figure stuff out with a faulty machine, as opposed to solving the immediate issue of having a box that works right now, I will have lost significantly more than $500. This is why I buy Apple hardware with Apple Care, by the way. Whenever I've run into an issue I walk into an Apple Store or call customer service and have the issue resolved right away. Sure the up front cost is higher, but the time and money saved on not having to care is priceless. It has to be said though, that the hardware is only half the story. I also make heavy use of spideroak and iCloud for backup of pretty much everything, as well as init scripts to get a brand new machine configured in less than an hour. If these guys can provide the same solid hardware + support + cloud story (by themselves or through partners) then I'd say the price tag is competitive.
- kayoone 9y agoSystem76 gained some popularity from the frustration about the latest MBP, so i guess this is their response to that. I don't really buy the text about their vision and goals though, in the past they have not really been well known for great build quality or good design. They basically sold pre-installed Linux on rebranded chinese laptops. Their new goals are ambitious and sound too ambitious but i wish them best of luck. I am quite happy with my 2016 MBP, by no means perfect, but my overall Mac experience did not change that much.
- brightball 9y agoRight now the biggest thing that they have going for them is a fairly well known brand in the market, which is a big deal considering who they are up against. It's a real growth opportunity if they can really differentiate themselves with a quality experience.
- ruben_varnish 9y agoOne of the most well executed marketing stunts ever seen must be the "Powered by Ubuntu Linux" stickers that System76 provided back in the day when your OS was still relevant and people thought Ubuntu would be the next big thing in the desktop/laptop space. I have personally learned so much from that experience that it is very difficult to overlook when thinking of brand hacks.
- hans0l074 9y agoGood luck! I'm always pleased to see news about S76 pop-up on HN. I'm a proud owner of two S76 laptops, a Galago Pro from late 2014 and an Oryx Pro from mid-2016. Both are going strong (though the Galago needs to be plugged in, the battery is nearly dead). My Oryx is a beaut (and a beast!). 64GB of RAM, 2x512GB SSD's - one running Ubuntu, the other Win 10. At work, we can run our entire platform on it. They shipped to Finland on time, very satisfactory builds. I missed the NVidia 1080's by a month or two, but the GTX 980M lets me play, for example, Dragon Age:Inquisition at very high settings. I love these machines. I still use my Macbooks, but for all dev/gaming purposes the Oryx has been very productive to use. Excited to see whats next from them.
- oliwarner 9y agoThis is a brave step. Taking control over design and manufacturing is going to be expensive. I guess that's why they're starting on desktops. You can limit custom fabrication to the cases and then it's just part-picking. There's also good margin on peripherals. But ultimately where this is going to make or break them is on laptops. The problem there is it's powers more expensive. Mainboard design, screens, batteries and a much lower uptake of high-margin peripherals. That said, many, many developers are happy to drop a few thousand on a good portable because it's a business expense they can easily justify. There's money to be had if they get it right. In that vein, they need to get away from their current image of rebadging generic hardware. Ergonomics are important.
- gregwebs 9y agoI hope this is what they need to create a great product. I am so glad I just got a Dell Precision 5520 (Ubuntu) and am no longer using a System76 laptop. The System76 didn't necessarily have driver issues, but was falling apart from day 1. The Dell works perfectly. It is a little odd that they are starting by re-designing their desktops: their desktops actually work well.
- dustinkirkland 9y ago<3 <3 <3 System76!
- knodi 9y agoI'm really hoping they offer a Ultrabook soon.
- _jal 9y agoI build my own desktops, but if I didn't, I'd totally buy System76. A friend has one; nice stuff. Really hope this works out - not only do I love seeing Linux plays, quirky plays, contrarian plays, and quirky, contrarian Linux plays, but also, we need more alternatives to Dell/Lenovo. Also also, they seem like great people.
- AdmiralAsshat 9y agoThe posts comparing various laptops to the Dell XPS 13 and calling them similarly sized are missing a key point: the XPS 13's lack of bezels. It is a 13" screen, but due to the lack of bezels, it basically fits in an 11" chassis. I think that's an often overlooked detail and one of the pieces of "sexiness" that makes it very difficult to want to switch away from an XPS 13: it's so damn portable. System76 needs to come out with something comparable to that before I can switch. The market of people who want something rugged/durable/functional are already taken care of by the Thinkpads. The market that is still untapped is that of the Linux ultrabooks. Developers and other Linux enthusiasts basically just want a MBA/MBP that runs Linux natively. Do that, and people will flock to it.
- lai 9y agoI would also add that if they can also get the same quality trackpad as that of MacBooks, I would also flock to it.
- criddell 9y agoThis has bothered me for a long time. Why are PC trackpads so awful? Why don't PC makers just do what Apple does with their trackpad?
- lai 9y agoI think it's patented.
- lobster_johnson 9y agoIsn't a trackpad essentially a touch screen? Non-Apple phones to that just fine. There's the tactile feedback, but even the old-style physically-moving trackpad would be better than what vendors have today.
- gjjrfcbugxbhf 9y agoOr even what phone manufacturers do with their screens. The problem isn't ability though it's cost. The market for laptops is seriously cost competitive and customers don't know if a trackpad will be good or bad until after purchased (with the exception of a few brands like apple).
- hysan 9y agoDoes this mean that they'll finally offer alternative/better keyboard layouts on their laptops? > Laptops are more complex and will follow much later. Oh... I guess not. Custom desktops aren't all that interesting. Especially not with the KickStarter / other funding platform culture that caught on with the custom desktop case community. I really don't see System76 being able to outdo enthusiast communities in terms of what people want (SFF, quietness, form factor, etc.). Their best bet is to work with enthusiast communities, take the cases people are supporting/testing, and create verified + supported Linux configs for those systems. I think they'll have far more success in creating truly unique and useful systems going that route.
- criddell 9y agoSystem76 should make sure you can disable the Intel Management stuff. I know Intel claims otherwise, but an always running background OS feels like a back door to me.
- Klasiaster 9y agoI think also https://puri.sm/ https://puri.sm/ has to be mentioned here because they take the Free Software principles even further and will soon have a coreboot version with disabled Intel ME.
- stratigos 9y agoIve had one of the higher end System76 machines purely as a work (software development) laptop for over a year, and I absolutely love it. They (appear to) have great customer service, I like their products, and would absolutely consider them for my next dev laptop. This is mainly in response to that Reddit thread from many years ago which basically spread the neg against System76. I was cautious due to being biased from the negative reviews of the past, but would consider my experience evidence that its at least not that way now :).
- hexmiles 9y agoI always wanted to take a system76 laptop, what stopped my so far is the price, they are a bit more expensive for similar hardware than other brands. Do the extra money go to a better construction quality and material? Right now i'm using an asus and i'm a little depressed about the general durability. The one i was using before break after no more than 3.5 year, but i started having problem during the first year of use. I think i need something a little more "rugged". My usual price tag is 500€, but i will pay more for a more robust laptop.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- publicfig 9y agoThis seems like an incredibly high bar/expectation to set for themselves, and while I'd love to see them succeed, I don't have a lot of confidence. The fact that they've decided to start out building desktops really solidifies that doubt. I just don't see a world where there is a demographic of people that both know about System76 and want to use a non-standard OS on a desktop computer, but also aren't familiar with building one themselves. In an enterprise environment, I don't see them making a huge dent either when many companies will already have deals with major enterprise manufacturers for desktop units, which are fairly easy to turn into GNU/Linux machines as is. It just seems like a sinkhole trying to pour effort into a form factor that has become incredibly unpopular over the past few years, and also (very publicly) setting the expectation that this effort will lead to the "the Model S of computers". From a personal/consumer standpoint, all I want to see anymore is a competitor to the Macbook Pro, with a comparable track pad, display, keyboard, battery life and form factor. I'd love to move away from my MBP, but the closest competitor I've found is the XPS 13 and, while it's a great laptop, just doesn't hold a candle to the MBP in a few of those areas. I wish System76 luck and would love to see them prove me wrong. This press release, so early in the process, just seems like a lot of pressure for the company to live up to, especially based off of their past offerings.
- sqeaky 9y agoI know how to change the oil in my car on my own, but I don't because it is more efficient to pay an expert to do it. I think the desktop situation is much the same. I agree with you that I do not see that as a large market, but perhaps System76 sees something we don't or knows the cost of this support better than us. I agree with you on wanting decent ultrabooks. I have had too much trouble with Dell to risk more of my money on another.
- minusSeven 9y agoI wouldn't exactly call ubuntu a non-standard OS.
- publicfig 9y agoI meant more as a non-standard OS to buy a computer loaded with.
- mschuster91 9y agoThey're prototyping desktop PCs with acrylic? How does that even work, given that metal sheets are vastly thinner than plastic? And for the laptops: with the rate of tech innovation I am afraid that when they release a laptop it will be one or two generations of CPU behind... and I also doubt they'll be able to produce something that comes into range with the 2015 MBP (not the awful Late 2016 model). Key points are fan loudness (I have yet to see a powerful AND silent x86 laptop other than the MBP), the trackpad (again, Apple wins with size and functionality by far) and the battery life - I can get 4-6h of Netflix on a single charge, hard to beat this given that Apple has literally billions of cash available to tweak OS X to their hardware for maximum power efficiency.
- markbnj 9y agoI'm rooting for System76, and I hope this move is successful and leads to a better product, because the current products are not competitive in terms of design and build quality.
- cwyers 9y ago> Today, we can’t design and manufacture our products. We outsource this work. It’s similar to how Tesla used a Lotus chassis for their first car. (Like their Roadster, the outside of our computers might look similar to others but it’s the inside that counts.) The strategy was cash efficient and allowed us to focus on developing high value areas of the company. However, knowing what we wanted to build but without the means to do so left us constantly yearning for more. ... > Phase three moves product design and manufacturing in house. We’re about to build the Model S of computers. Something so brilliant and beautiful that reviewers will have to add an 11 to their scores. Being that we’re System76 and we do things the System76 way, our design principles are polar opposite of the rest of the industry. Is this serious? The Tesla Model S was a serious gamechangers for the viability of electric cars. Dell and Lenovo have made "OEM computers with Linux support" a solved problem space. These guys think they're going to leap from selling rebadged Taiwanese MacBook clones to coming up with original PC designs so great that they beat what Apple and its mountains of cash can put out? Are they serious?
- cassidyjames 9y agoThere were plenty of electric cars before the Model S. You might say that "electric cars" was a solved problem space. Around that time, Tesla was "selling rebadged European sports cars" in low quantities as a proof of concept. Of course there's no way they could beat GM and what their mountains of cash could put out. But Tesla steadily built out their Model S production, and rapidly became the poster child for the viability of electric cars. They have been extremely successful since. I think it's entirely possible that a similar situation can happen in the PC space, and System76 believe they're positioned to do it. Disclaimer, I do happen to be a web developer at System76. But the argument stands; you can disagree that System76 has the ability to execute on this vision, but after building a very successful business around Linux computers for 11 years, I happen to believe it's going to happen.
- cwyers 9y agoThere were electric cars before the Model S. None of them were especially commercially viable. The Tesla has the potential to be something like the iPod or the iPhone, in terms of transforming a product category. Yes, there were MP3 players and Blackberries and PalmPilots, but they didn't deliver the same level of experience as what came after. I don't believe that there are similar opportunities in the PC desktop and laptop markets, which are contracting, commoditized markets.
- BlackjackCF 9y agoI'd be interested to see what they're offering. They're slowly hitting the market of devs with the Galago Pro. Still, it's not quite there since most of their stuff is just Clevo (at least that's what I've heard?) I ended up buying a XPS 15" in lieu of not buying a MBP.
- akinalci 9y agoIf you want a MacBook-quality laptop running Linux, the obvious thing to do is put Linux on a MacBook. There's only an issue if the MacBook is out of your price range, or they Apple doesn't support a specific build you want. But will this company be able to deliver custom-designed, high quality hardware at a lower price point?
- BadassFractal 9y agoMBP Linux killer from System76? I'm not optimistic about them being able to pull it off, but I'll certainly root for them.
- sqeaky 9y agoSo many people here are suggesting the XPS 13, but there is so much Dell BS to put up with. There are many configurations and many redundant options, and silly coupons that work on some models and not others. The buying options are entirely unclear, I think intentionally so. Just like HP and some of the other major OEMs. Please don't read this wrong, I love options, but I dislike foolish inconsistency. When I build a desktop I can choose any CPU, any GPU, any Mobo... When I look at the 4 models (lines, tiers, whatever) of the XPS 13 they have redundant options, 4 different ways to get to the same configuration with no reason I can see for a $200 difference in price. When I spend my money I want to know what I am buying. Beyond the normal BS is that part of buying System76 is not giving money to microsoft. I think microsoft is evil, not an exaggeration, legitimately evil. Not giving them money is a huge selling point for me. I think this is a discussion for another thread and will not defend this here and now, Just take that I (and at least a few others) won't willingly give money to microsoft. So where is the option for an XPS with Linux, any flavor (or even Freedos or no OS) pre-installed? Because none of the XPS 13 systems say they support what I choose for my OS, what is my recourse if I do blow away the pre-installed OS and something doesn't work? They are free to change the hardware when they please and I have ordered two dells with identical model numbers and gotten 2 different things (even in their business class of machines). They are making it clear that I am not their intended customer and mine is not their intended use case.
- sauerbraten 9y ago> So where is the option for an XPS with Linux, any flavor (or even Freedos or no OS) pre-installed? The XPS 13 is available as a developer edition with Ubuntu instead of Windows preinstalled: http://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/productdetails/xps-13-9360-laptop/cax13w10h7b5128ubuntu http://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/productdetails/xps-13-93...
- fusiongyro 9y agoThis reinforces the parent's point though, because now you have a fifth option with apparently different hardware on a different update schedule with different pricing. How much Linux incompatibility do you suffer from a regular XPS 13 versus a Developer Edition one?
- standardly 9y agoI'm not a young system anymore.
- hellofunk 9y ago> We outsource this work. It’s similar to how Tesla used a Lotus chassis for their first car. If there is one certainty in this world, it's the apt comparison of System76 to Tesla.
- scns 9y agodisclaimer: i'm not affiliated with that company (i'd love to own such a machine though) in germany you can buy a 13,3" FHD laptop with up to 32GiB ram and preinstalled ubuntuflavors starting at 1099€ here: https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/Linux-Hardware/Linux-Notebooks/10-14-Zoll/TUXEDO-InfinityBook-Pro-13-matt-Full-HD-IPS-Aluminiumgehaeuse-Intel-Core-i7-U-CPU-bis-32GB-RAM-zwei-HDD/SSD-bis-12h-Akku-Typ-C-Thunderbolt.geek https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/Linux-Hardware/Linux-Noteboo... keyboardlayouts for a lot of countries and plenty of other customization options available. Batterylife is claimed to be 12 hours. Weight is 1,3kg. edit: added weight, starting price
- tracker1 9y agoAside: is it really so hard to have a company blog link to the company's main website in an obvious way?
- mmgutz 9y agoTo be frank, I've never been impressed by system76 laptops. They're more expensive and often bulkier. It seems like they just rebrand name brand laptops and ugly ones at that. Maybe the manufacturing in house will change that. I bought an ultralight Acer of so-so quality and the thing runs Xubuntu, i3 almost flawlessly out of the box. I'm not going to pretend it's a Macbook Air or XPS but it matches them in function for a lot less money.