9 ms·
What a lack of professionalism. The customer even paid premium price to be in first class and instead of being notified at the gate, like any respectable airli
by Belphemur 10y ago
What a lack of professionalism.
The customer even paid premium price to be in first class and instead of being notified at the gate, like any respectable airline would do, he's asked to give his seat to somebody "more important" than him when already seated.
It doesn't make any sense, if that "more important person" came later, he should be the one getting compensated by the airline especially when the problem occurred because United needed to change the plane for a smaller one.
You don't kick customer, you compensate them.
- mirimir 10y agoAlso, we know now that it's illegal to remove customers after boarding, unless they do something illegal. Saying no isn't illegal.
- kevinthew 10y agoqsaAssadseesacasqdqsadwaqsss
- rbcgerard 10y agoApparently united position is that you haven't "boarded" until the door has closed and plane has left the gate
- shimon_e 10y agoThat works both ways. If you are on a flexible ticket you can get a refund up until the door is closed. All these rules work 2 ways.
- pbhjpbhj 10y agoI'd like to see you try?
- shimon_e 10y agoI have multiple times deboarded a plane before take off. Due to change in business plans, flight delays, etc. In one case a passenger was sick on board and I asked to deboard as I didn't want to risk getting their cold. This was all on Asian airlines. My few experiences on United have been terrible. So in this case I'd say the regulations guiding airlines is fair. United's execution of these regulations is the problem. There are a million things United could have done in the chain of events to have avoided facing a PR backlash. As this is HN, I'd give a simple technical solution that would have avoided this whole problem: The computer could have deboarded 8 passangers at random from order of lowest priority. United could have explained that if their employees don't catch this flight another flight with XXX passengers will be delayed / cancelled. This would allow the supervisor to use their own discretion to allow 4 of the 8 passengers to reboard. Making the practice of "overselling" illegal is not the solution. There are times where problem could be cause by equipment swaps changing seat numbers. If we stop the airlines from overselling then travelling will become a lot more expensive.
- seanmcdirmid 10y agoYa, I've seen people deboard if there wasn't enough overhead space...in America...it is completely in their right if they bought s full fare ticket.
- mrits 10y ago"at random"... "from order of lowest priority"... pick one
- shimon_e 10y agoLets say there are 50 people in the lowest priority (fare class[0]). It'll pick from random out of these 50 people. Come'on this is hacker news. I am sure most here have seen the mainframe based applications that entirely control every aspect of airline industry. These things were coded by professionals over 30 years ago. Its not like these flights are being managed by some buggy wordpress plugin made by some offshore developer. [0] http://www.cwsi.net/united.htm http://www.cwsi.net/united.htm
- mirimir 10y agoIt must be defined somewhere in law or regulation. Based on http://www.askthepilot.com/how-to-speak-airline/ http://www.askthepilot.com/how-to-speak-airline/ it seems like "boarding" means to enter the plane.
- FireBeyond 10y agoAnd based on the FAA's definition of 'incidents', it's from the moment the _first_ passenger embarks to when the _last_ passenger has disembarked.
- mirimir 10y agoSo in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14108983 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14108983 vilhelm_s posted this link: http://www.dorfonlaw.org/2017/04/united-airlines-own-contract-denied-it.html http://www.dorfonlaw.org/2017/04/united-airlines-own-contrac... > One might argue that Dao had not completed “boarding” until the cabin door was closed. This argument would be wrong. The term “boarding” is not defined in the definition section of the contract, and absent an explicit definition in the contract, terms are to be afforded their plain meaning. “Boarding” means that the passenger presents a boarding pass to the gate agent who accepts or scans the pass and permits entry through the gate to the airplane, allowing the passenger to enter the aircraft and take a seat. > It is possible in this regard to distinguish between the collective completion of the plane’s boarding process, which is not complete until all passengers have boarded and the cabin door is closed. But that is different from each passenger’s boarding, which is complete for each individual once he or she has been accepted for transportation by the gate agent and proceeded to the aircraft and taken his or her assigned seat.
- koolba 10y agoI'm sure they could create a Soviet style no win situation if they want to. "Sir please deplane we need your seat" "No- I haven't done anything illegal and am in my seat already" "Looks like he's not following crew instructions! Get em' boys!"
- Gracana 10y agoLike being arrested for resisting arrest.
- mirimir 10y agoWell, it is possible to get there with a sufficiently bad attitude.
- geggam 10y agoAttitude isn't criminal.
- mirimir 10y agoMaybe not, but with cops it's stupid. And it can get you dead, if things go very wrong. Extreme politeness is the best course, in my experience.
- sangnoir 10y ago"Pick up that can".
- mirimir 10y ago| [Cop:] May I see your license and registration? | Ah certainly... | [Cop:] What you're doing? | Chewin' chocolate | [Cop:] Where did ya get it? | Doggy dropped it | [Cop:] ...carry on Butthole Surfers - Chewing George Lucas' chocolate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VES_srfHmQE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VES_srfHmQE
- shimon_e 10y agoThat's not true. Airlines can remove a passengers for safety reasons whenever they need to.
- mirimir 10y agoOK, also for safety reasons. "We have a VIP who needs your seat." is not a safety reason.
- shimon_e 10y agoUnited is the airline pulling this $#!^. The problem isn't the regulations. The problem is United's execution. There is a reason why United isn't popular amongst premium paying and frequent travellers. I was avoiding their flights way before all this bad PR.
- Cthulhu_ 10y agoWhat if the VIP is a big fellow that threatened to start strangling people if he didn't get a seat?
- mirimir 10y agoOK, then he is the safety problem, and gets tazed.
- bitwize 10y agoIt is a federal crime to not follow crewmember instructions, so...
- tyingq 10y agoNot exactly. It's a federal crime to interfere with a flight crew. https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-1411-interference-flight-crew-members-or-flight-attendants-49-usc https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-1411-i... There's a lot of room in between a contractual dispute and interference.
- natch 10y agoAre the rules the same before boarding? See discussion above about United's screwey definition of boarding.
- natch 10y ago"while aboard an aircraft" the rules say. It sounds like United is claiming he wasn't aboard yet so they are caught in a catch-22.
- tyingq 10y agoApparently, the interference with a flight crew has the same definition...only after the doors are closed. It applies only in the "Special Aircraft Jurisdiction of the United States": "An individual on an aircraft in the special aircraft jurisdiction of the United States who, by assaulting or intimidating a flight crew member or flight attendant of the aircraft, interferes with the performance of the duties of the member or attendant..." [1] An aircraft is in the special aircraft jurisdiction of the United States only while the aircraft is "in flight." [2] "An aircraft is "in flight" from the moment when all external doors are closed following embarkation until the moment when one such door is opened for disembarkation, or in the case of a forced landing, until competent authorities take responsibility for the aircraft" IANAL, but it would seem difficult to charge anyone with "interfering with a flight crew" if the door hasn't been shut. The language doesn't seem ambiguous. [1] https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2009-title49/html/USCODE-2009-title49-subtitleVII-partA-subpartiv-chap465.htm https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2009-title49/html/USCOD... (scroll down to the 46504 section) [2] https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-1405-special-aircraft-jurisdiction-us https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-1405-s...
- talmand 10y agoWhere did this come from? I didn't read that in the article, did I miss it?
- linker3000 10y agoI asked United whether I could use their lounge at SFO as they cancelled my flight to Heathrow and I was going to be waiting the best part of a day for a flight to Dulles to take an alternative that would get me home 1.5 days late. By the look on the faces of the two lounge receptionists, you'd think I'd asked if I could take a dump on their desk. "Other people have paid membership to use this lounge" I was told in a rather disdainful way. "Sure", I said, "would you like to put a value on the fact that I will never fly with you again then?", I replied...silence - they stopped talking to me and carried on doing other stuff as if I had suddenly become invisible. No, I did not get to use the lounge, and no, I have never flown with United since - which also means that work colleagues who travel with me are also lost to them.
- mistermann 10y agoFrom the article: “Despite the negative experience, we hope to have your continued support,” the rep concluded. “Your business is especially important to us and we'll do our utmost to make your future contacts with United satisfactory in every respect.” Seems like they prefer a certain skill level of employee: low.
- nkkollaw 10y agoWell... How many people were on that flight with you? If you have the right to go in the lounge then everyone else does, and obviously that's not going to work. In addition, the lounge is for those who pay for it, not for those whose flight gets cancelled. If I paid for it and all of a sudden the lounge is full of people because a flight got cancelled I wouldn't be happy. It's your right to never fly United again, but I don't think the staff was unreasonable. Also, there is no way to know if they were actually rude, or if you were rude first because they cancelled your flight and you asked in the wrong way.
- HarryHirsch 10y agoThe receptionists were likely not United employees, they were contractors with some Sodexo-type rent-a-body company. Overworked, underpaid, why would they care about someone else's first-world problems?