5 ms·

I seriously doubt that they've spent 10 years in the industry and would read this comment and go "Wait, what?? Oh shit! We fucked up! Turns out nobody working h

I seriously doubt that they've spent 10 years in the industry and would read this comment and go "Wait, what?? Oh shit! We fucked up! Turns out nobody working here had any relevant expertise at all, and we were just guessing how this worked and how to design it! If only we'd talked to anyone who knew had even basic knowledge about solar panels before creating a factory to produce them!" A more valid wording for this comment would be "I wonder how they altered the design to accommodate for the siphon effect the gap generated," instead of implying they have no idea what they're doing.

MPSimmons 10y ago
Relevant: http://www.commitstrip.com/en/2016/06/02/thank-god-for-commenters/ http://www.commitstrip.com/en/2016/06/02/thank-god-for-comme...
- Sarkie 10y ago
  So fucking relevant.
- bigtimeidiot 10y ago
  What are you doing on a message board if you think no one here has anything insightful to offer?
sschueller 10y ago
But stuff like this happens all the time. Especially when designers have more say than engineers. Just look at the previous iPhone antenna issues or the samsung batteries.
- aerovistae 10y ago
  > "Stuff like this happens all the time" It just blows my mind that someone can create a successful space program from scratch and still people think "but he'll probably get tripped up by this tiny thing that even I noticed! Just waiting for company to go belly up."
  - makomk 10y ago
    You may also recall that Tesla had immense problems making car door handles that actually work reliably (and the same with the doors themselves), largely because they prioritized fancy aesthetics over sound engineering. If they've taken the same approach with their solar panels, this would be completely unsuprising.
    - zackbloom 10y ago
      They prioritized fancy aesthetics over simplicity, not over sound engineering. Unless you believe sound engineering is just never doing hard things. The doors were new, they were complicated, they took time. I don't think they revealed any fundamental engineering weaknesses of the company, just a reminder that anything new is hard.
      - clock_tower 10y ago
        Were the seatbelt bolts new and complicated?
        manicdee 10y ago
        Is having the diff not rupture the fuel tank and set the car on fire new and complicated? Is having the engine block not spontaneously catch fire new and complicated? I love this game!
        clock_tower 10y ago
        Your choice of analogy is revealing: these were problems at Ford, as near as I can tell. (The first sounds like the Pinto.) Show me Tesla-scale problems at BMW or Audi, and I might take Musk's hilarious claim that he'll bankrupt those companies a little more seriously. You remind me of how Americans talk about how the US is the best country in the world, and then compare themselves to Nicuragua or Afghanistan or Somalia or thereabouts. Sure, you can beat the astonishingly dysfunctional, but how do you compare against your real peers? (Disclaimer: Musk knows what he's doing in space, to say the least, even though his car company is astonishingly dysfunctional. I hope he has the sense to keep SpaceX and Tesla independent!)
PinguTS 10y ago
Tesla presented the best in class Powerwall for an unbelievable cheap price. Everybody said at that time: impossible. Elon said: "We have this number of orders." Actually, you never heard of any significant deliveries. Instead: "We have this new Powerwall 2". Already, the first version of Powerwall 2 is already dropped before deliveries happened. There is only marketing of single prototype large scale installations. The same with the solar shingle. Everybody tells: too expansive because of the expansive installation requirements because of the connectors. A (few) single panels are easier to install. But still Elon claimed the solar shingle will be cheaper than regular before energy payback.
- aerovistae 10y ago
  This Tesla press release at the time of the Powerwall 2 says quite clearly that 300 MWh of the first version had been deployed, or 46,000 units of the first Powerwall. https://www.tesla.com/blog/gaining-momentum-tesla-powerpack https://www.tesla.com/blog/gaining-momentum-tesla-powerpack Are you accusing the company of lying? Do you have any source to your accusations here? Kind of seems like you're making some claims to fit your pre-existing agenda without researching it at all.
  - PinguTS 10y ago
    Fact checking: — May 2015 Tesla announced: 38,000 Pre-orders for the Powerwall and 2,500 pre-orders for the Powerpack, which would equate to 25,000 Powerwall http://www.theverge.com/2015/5/6/8561931/tesla-38000-powerwall-preorders-announced http://www.theverge.com/2015/5/6/8561931/tesla-38000-powerwa... — According to your PR Tesla installed until October 2016 300 MW. (38,000 + 25,000) by 7kW = 441MW (I know a rough calculation) That means, the pre-orders where received in 1 week. All the pre-orders fulfilled means, they never sold anything in addition to those first movers _AND_ they did not sold/installed any Powerpack. But as they installed also some large scale Powerpacks, that means they did not even fulfilled their pre-orders (or a significant amount got cancelled) _and_ they did not sold any Powerwall besides the pre-orders. Just a nice reminder, do your own research and double check numbers. Don't believe in PR only. EDIT: corrected the numbers
- 10y ago
taneq 10y ago
> A more valid wording for this comment would be "I wonder how they altered the design to accommodate for the siphon effect the gap generated," instead of implying they have no idea what they're doing. If you want a rewording that's closer to my original meaning, it'd be more like "I bet these were made with a cold climate, like that in the northern USA, in mind. They'd lose 10-20% efficiency in summer where I live." Edit: Although that may not be a terrible thing, if they're overprovisioned compared with the inverter's maximum output so as to keep the inverter at full power for a larger proportion of the time. Depending on climate, you could probably balance out losses due to summer heat with losses due to reduced winter daylight, at least to a degree, giving more reliable year-round power.
- tw04 10y ago
  At the end of the day - does it matter? People expect X output at $X price. If this meets that desire, they're fine. A lot of people would probably be just fine losing some power on hot days to not have something ugly on the roof of their house. For some things aesthetics DO matter - the roof of a house is one of them for most people. Cars tend to be another one as Elon is well aware of.
- astrodust 10y ago
  Northern USA. Cold climate. Yeah, like Chicago in July. Super cold.

MPSimmons 10y ago

Relevant: http://www.commitstrip.com/en/2016/06/02/thank-god-for-commenters/ http://www.commitstrip.com/en/2016/06/02/thank-god-for-comme...

Sarkie 10y ago
So fucking relevant.
bigtimeidiot 10y ago
What are you doing on a message board if you think no one here has anything insightful to offer?

sschueller 10y ago

But stuff like this happens all the time. Especially when designers have more say than engineers. Just look at the previous iPhone antenna issues or the samsung batteries.

aerovistae 10y ago
> "Stuff like this happens all the time" It just blows my mind that someone can create a successful space program from scratch and still people think "but he'll probably get tripped up by this tiny thing that even I noticed! Just waiting for company to go belly up."
- makomk 10y ago
  You may also recall that Tesla had immense problems making car door handles that actually work reliably (and the same with the doors themselves), largely because they prioritized fancy aesthetics over sound engineering. If they've taken the same approach with their solar panels, this would be completely unsuprising.
  - zackbloom 10y ago
    They prioritized fancy aesthetics over simplicity, not over sound engineering. Unless you believe sound engineering is just never doing hard things. The doors were new, they were complicated, they took time. I don't think they revealed any fundamental engineering weaknesses of the company, just a reminder that anything new is hard.
    - clock_tower 10y ago
      Were the seatbelt bolts new and complicated?
      - manicdee 10y ago
        Is having the diff not rupture the fuel tank and set the car on fire new and complicated? Is having the engine block not spontaneously catch fire new and complicated? I love this game!
        clock_tower 10y ago
        Your choice of analogy is revealing: these were problems at Ford, as near as I can tell. (The first sounds like the Pinto.) Show me Tesla-scale problems at BMW or Audi, and I might take Musk's hilarious claim that he'll bankrupt those companies a little more seriously. You remind me of how Americans talk about how the US is the best country in the world, and then compare themselves to Nicuragua or Afghanistan or Somalia or thereabouts. Sure, you can beat the astonishingly dysfunctional, but how do you compare against your real peers? (Disclaimer: Musk knows what he's doing in space, to say the least, even though his car company is astonishingly dysfunctional. I hope he has the sense to keep SpaceX and Tesla independent!)

PinguTS 10y ago

Tesla presented the best in class Powerwall for an unbelievable cheap price. Everybody said at that time: impossible. Elon said: "We have this number of orders." Actually, you never heard of any significant deliveries. Instead: "We have this new Powerwall 2". Already, the first version of Powerwall 2 is already dropped before deliveries happened. There is only marketing of single prototype large scale installations. The same with the solar shingle. Everybody tells: too expansive because of the expansive installation requirements because of the connectors. A (few) single panels are easier to install. But still Elon claimed the solar shingle will be cheaper than regular before energy payback.

aerovistae 10y ago
This Tesla press release at the time of the Powerwall 2 says quite clearly that 300 MWh of the first version had been deployed, or 46,000 units of the first Powerwall. https://www.tesla.com/blog/gaining-momentum-tesla-powerpack https://www.tesla.com/blog/gaining-momentum-tesla-powerpack Are you accusing the company of lying? Do you have any source to your accusations here? Kind of seems like you're making some claims to fit your pre-existing agenda without researching it at all.
- PinguTS 10y ago
  Fact checking: — May 2015 Tesla announced: 38,000 Pre-orders for the Powerwall and 2,500 pre-orders for the Powerpack, which would equate to 25,000 Powerwall http://www.theverge.com/2015/5/6/8561931/tesla-38000-powerwall-preorders-announced http://www.theverge.com/2015/5/6/8561931/tesla-38000-powerwa... — According to your PR Tesla installed until October 2016 300 MW. (38,000 + 25,000) by 7kW = 441MW (I know a rough calculation) That means, the pre-orders where received in 1 week. All the pre-orders fulfilled means, they never sold anything in addition to those first movers _AND_ they did not sold/installed any Powerpack. But as they installed also some large scale Powerpacks, that means they did not even fulfilled their pre-orders (or a significant amount got cancelled) _and_ they did not sold any Powerwall besides the pre-orders. Just a nice reminder, do your own research and double check numbers. Don't believe in PR only. EDIT: corrected the numbers
10y ago

taneq 10y ago

> A more valid wording for this comment would be "I wonder how they altered the design to accommodate for the siphon effect the gap generated," instead of implying they have no idea what they're doing. If you want a rewording that's closer to my original meaning, it'd be more like "I bet these were made with a cold climate, like that in the northern USA, in mind. They'd lose 10-20% efficiency in summer where I live." Edit: Although that may not be a terrible thing, if they're overprovisioned compared with the inverter's maximum output so as to keep the inverter at full power for a larger proportion of the time. Depending on climate, you could probably balance out losses due to summer heat with losses due to reduced winter daylight, at least to a degree, giving more reliable year-round power.

tw04 10y ago
At the end of the day - does it matter? People expect X output at $X price. If this meets that desire, they're fine. A lot of people would probably be just fine losing some power on hot days to not have something ugly on the roof of their house. For some things aesthetics DO matter - the roof of a house is one of them for most people. Cars tend to be another one as Elon is well aware of.
astrodust 10y ago
Northern USA. Cold climate. Yeah, like Chicago in July. Super cold.