18 ms·

When we moved into this house 12 years ago, I got the cheapest, simplest, most "mechanical" washer and dryer set that Lowe's offered (I think it's branded GE).

by mrbill 10y ago

When we moved into this house 12 years ago, I got the cheapest, simplest, most "mechanical" washer and dryer set that Lowe's offered (I think it's branded GE). Haven't had a single problem other than the light inside the dryer eventually burned out when a housemate left the door open. I know that when one of them eventually fails, it will hopefully be a cheap and simple mechanical fix. I have no desire to own a "major appliance" (W/D, dishwasher, fridge) that has LCD screens, Internet connectivity, or any of those features that you don't really need and are just another point of failure. I manage computers all day at work, I don't want to come home and have to apply a firmware update to my washing machine.

foxylad 10y ago
Microwave ovens are another classic. We got ours 25 years ago, and it's still going strong. In fact several people who know about appliances have warned us never to ditch it - apparently the magnetron tubes for all modern microwave ovens burn out in a couple of years.
- mrbill 10y ago
  When we moved into this house, the wife made noises about replacing the "ancient" oven [0]. I asked "Has the technique of cooking food with heat, changed drastically since the 70s?" We left it in. When I went to college in 1993, I was given my grandmother's original Amana RadarRange microwave from 1968 or so, the model with the two dials and the "done" buzzer that wouldn't stop until you hit a button [1]. It was huge, HEAVY, and we joked that it was full of lead shielding, but it got used for three years of college and after that was donated to my workplace when I moved to Austin. As far as I know it kept working there for another 2-3 years, and by then was most likely 25+ years old. [0] https://goo.gl/photos/qrgoixCJDViks8am9 https://goo.gl/photos/qrgoixCJDViks8am9 [1] https://i.ytimg.com/vi/hLhXgVAYoAE/maxresdefault.jpg https://i.ytimg.com/vi/hLhXgVAYoAE/maxresdefault.jpg Addendum: I just realized that the microwave I have sitting in the kitchen was given to us as a wedding gift in 2001. The clock no longer works properly, but it cooks just fine.
  - reitanqild 10y ago
    "Has the technique of cooking food with heat, changed drastically since the 70s?" Ovens? I guess not unless you go for very very high end. I'd like to say a few nice words about my induction stovetop though: if anybody is in the market for an electric stovetop the induction based ones are vastly better IMO. Heats pans faster. Does not heat if there is nothing on top of it. Cools down quicker. Feels a bit magic.
  - ethbro 10y ago
    I have a Sunbeam Radiant Toaster from the 1960s that I inherited after my grandmother passed away. It still makes toast like a champ.
  - pfooti 10y ago
    One thing you might want to try is a sugar browning test [0]. I have an "ancient" oven - gas fired from the 1970s. It's a rental home and I don't feel like spending my own money on a kitchen upgrade, but it would probably be money well spent. My own oven varies by over 100F plus or minus during regular cooking cycles. This is hugely significant when it comes to baking almost anything. If I put cookie dough in at the wrong time, they'll burn. I do my best to dampen the variability with a baking steel, but a more modern gas oven wouldn't have as much of a range of operating temperatures. Or, at least, a modern and high-quality one. So, in response to your relatively sarcastic question: yes. Things have changed - not in how we cook, but in the quality of homeostatic controls for ovens. http://www.xojane.com/diy/oven-calibration-article http://www.xojane.com/diy/oven-calibration-article (technique from cooking for geeks)
  - blubb-fish 10y ago
    well ... your wife refers to the oven (baking) and you respond to cooking. while I would still agree and keep the old oven, I have to say it does make a difference. modern ovens are much more easily regulated to and kept at specific temperatures. to give one example.
  - dagw 10y ago
    "Has the technique of cooking food with heat, changed drastically since the 70s?" Convection ovens and steam ovens have become a thing since then. Modern ovens have also become a lot better at keeping a constant temperature. Also my 'modern' (~8-9 years old) oven gets a lot hotter than my old oven.
- ams6110 10y ago
  I have a Goldstar microwave that I bought about 30 years ago. I belive this company is now named LG. But it's been flawless and still works great. I also have a chest freezer that my parents bought in the late 1970s and it's still working perfectly as well.
  - mrbill 10y ago
    I remember our first VCR in the 80s being a Goldstar. I believe that LG at one point stood for "Lucky Goldstar" as they eventually changed company name and branding. Ah, from Wikipedia: "GoldStar merged with Lucky Chemical and LG Cable in 1995, changing the corporate name to Lucky-Goldstar, and then finally to LG Electronics."
- hourislate 10y ago
  I justs recently replaced a built in GE Microwave's magnetron and diode for around $75 with parts off of Amazon (it was 5 years old). To replace the Microwave would have cost me around $800 and to call a repair person would have been about $250. Thanks to youtube and about 30 minutes of work it is working like new again. These days I fix everything myself. Appliances, cars, electronics, furniture, etc. I also try to buy quality instead of disposable but that is getting harder every year.
bnolsen 10y ago
A serious problem in the US was that regulation demanded clothes washer lids be locked when in operation. This led to forced electronics on clothes washers starting several years ago just to handle the automatic switch. I know Speed Queen was trying to delay this mess but I don't know if they are still manufacturing purely mechanical washers or not...
- cma 10y ago
  A washer can rip a kid's arms off or worse if their sleeve gets caught in it while the lid is open.
- throwaway729 10y ago
  Is this true? I bought a (new) washer < 3 months ago that does not lock. Top-load, so maybe that's why? I never understood front-load anyways. Topload fails safe. Front load fails in a giant puddle all over your floor.
  - snowwrestler 10y ago
    Front load is better in every other way: easier on your clothes, so they last longer. Uses less water and less soap. Can take bulky fragile items like a down comforter or a tent.
    - amalcon 10y ago
      A top loader with no center agitator is almost as good, though it does still use somewhat more water than a front loader.
    - NDizzle 10y ago
      It's not better in every way. Mildew. Having to leave it open so that the seals air out. Gravity - undefeated champion. Replacement parts and repairs. Get ready to open up your wallet. Good luck working on anything yourself.
      - 10y ago
Keverw 10y ago
I remember seeing on HN a year or two ago? About Samsung smart fridges calendar app not being updated when Google phased out the API it was using. Also Blu-ray players don't get updates after a long while too I've heard as YouTube and Netflix changes their APIs - the devs of these devices don't keep them up to date. I would prefer a dumb TV, and just buy a replaceable box with the computer part. The only way I could see embedded software lasting is if the company made the firmware/OS across all their devices and made it more generalized to work with all their devices of that class.
- mrbill 10y ago
  That's what I do. I bought the "dumbest" TV I could find; I just want a display with speakers and HDMI inputs. Give me something I can plug the latest smart streaming box into and change that box as needed.
  - sankalp_sans 10y ago
    That's where we have a huge gap in device ecosystem. If you want one of the best displays on a TV, it comes "bundled in" with "smart" features. It's a shame that appliances industry doesn't let us customize exactly what we want (that lasts longer and hence would be comforting to pay a good price for).
    - rsync 10y ago
      "If you want one of the best displays on a TV, it comes "bundled in" with "smart" features. " Not true. If you buy a commercial display (you know, those panels you see in airports) not only will it be a far higher quality display than any consumer model, but it will also be the dumbest display you can imagine. They're not that much more expensive - which makes sense, since end users are sometimes building video walls out of 10 or 12 or 16 of them ...
      - gozur88 10y ago
        What I worry about with televisions is they'll come out with new standards that will render my keep-it-for-30-years TV obsolete in three or four years.
foobarian 10y ago
My problem with the current market is that it's next to impossible to determine the quality of a machine. I would gladly pay $3000 for a washer if I could somehow tell that it will be better built, with higher quality metals, inner parts, and overall longer lasting. But it seems that the extra money these days just buys more flashy bells and whistles that just increase the chance of failure. Sadly my strategy has been to buy the cheapest possible appliances, understanding that they will fail within 2-3 years no matter what we buy, and then just replace them with less hard feelings. Disposable appliances indeed. Did this with a display model Whirlpool dishwasher from Home Depot which we bought for $200. Had some dings on the stainless surface, and I was sure it was going to have a short life given it was a display unit. But ironically at this point it's made it twice as long as the fancy Samsung unit it replaced.
- tiatia 10y ago
  "would gladly pay $3000 for a washer" Miele. https://9to5mac.com/2011/03/07/how-steve-jobs-picks-a-washerdryer/ https://9to5mac.com/2011/03/07/how-steve-jobs-picks-a-washer...
  - reitanqild 10y ago
    Miele Seconded: the Miele that my family insisted on buying us for the wedding is well beyond 8 years and we haven't had a single problem. 10 years warranty but rumour have it they might easily last up 20 years although you might have to change parts somewhere between 10 and 20 years. Oh, and I think it cost something less than USD1000.
    - PeterStuer 10y ago
      Yes Miele, but get as basic model a model as possible as they also have these "1.000 features you will never use but that will break and stop your appliance from working" types. A basic Miele washing machine will caost around $1.000 and weigh around 100kg, so don't put it on a flimsy table, but it should last you well over 10 years.
ryanmarsh 10y ago
After repairing my appliances one by one, finding the schematics, diagnosing parts and then searching for replacements I discovered the cheapest model and the most expensive model of most appliances by the same manufacturer share all the same parts except the exterior and control panel. That dishwasher or washing machine with extra modes for $1,000 more? It's the same as the cheapest model, they just didn't put the extra controls on the panel.
- reitanqild 10y ago
  After repairing my appliances one by one, finding the schematics, diagnosing parts and then searching for replacements Where did you find the schematics? I tried a few years ago to find just instructions for some appliances and gave up because of search engine spam etc.
  - kw71 10y ago
    elektrotanya is one good library. ~10 years ago I decided to obtain and review service manuals before buying machinery, to be sure I could have the documentation and to try and figure out what pile of crap I am getting into.
  - ryanmarsh 10y ago
    Some of them have them in a plastic sleeve inside the machine. Others you can find online. They're intended for repairmen.
  - EEGuy 10y ago
    Search for PDF < Model Number from appliance nameplate > Prefixing your appliance model number with PDF cuts way down on unrelated sales material and spam.
- yjftsjthsd-h 10y ago
  Could you upgrade the cheap model, or is the takeaway that the expensive options aren't really valuable?
  - 10y ago
WalterBright 10y ago
I've had many cars with electric windows. They all eventually failed, usually when it was raining, and the windows could not be raised. Fixing them would cost over $500. My truck now has hand cranked windows, and mechanical door locks. They're no trouble at all, and I'm happy with them.
- hive_mind 10y ago
  I'm looking for a truck with hand cranked windows. What brand is this?
  - owly 10y ago
    Seriously! I'd like to know too. I thought these went extinct.
  - lb1lf 10y ago
    Base spec Land Cruisers and Geländewagens still have hand-cranked windows. Whether you can still buy one in the so-called civilized world is another matter altogether.
  - WalterBright 10y ago
    80's Bronco 2
- mrbill 10y ago
  I've had to replace the motor/regulator for my driver's side power window twice now ('05 Mitsu Galant). Fortunately it's just a $75-100 part and less than an hour of work.
  - dclowd9901 10y ago
    Mitsubishis have always been notorious for shoddy build quality.
  - ashark 10y ago
    Can confirm, window motor replacement's not terrible, and Youtube will probably tell you exactly how to do it for your make/model/year (did for our '01 Honda, which is the only car we've ever had power window problems with)
agumonkey 10y ago
Random note, seems to me that the *washers market has been a scam for a long time, the only difference between models seem superficial: interface aesthetics, a few programs and a new screen. Imagine if the rotor and fluid was decoupled and you could swap the controlling part ?

by mrbill 10y ago

foxylad 10y ago

Microwave ovens are another classic. We got ours 25 years ago, and it's still going strong. In fact several people who know about appliances have warned us never to ditch it - apparently the magnetron tubes for all modern microwave ovens burn out in a couple of years.

mrbill 10y ago
When we moved into this house, the wife made noises about replacing the "ancient" oven [0]. I asked "Has the technique of cooking food with heat, changed drastically since the 70s?" We left it in. When I went to college in 1993, I was given my grandmother's original Amana RadarRange microwave from 1968 or so, the model with the two dials and the "done" buzzer that wouldn't stop until you hit a button [1]. It was huge, HEAVY, and we joked that it was full of lead shielding, but it got used for three years of college and after that was donated to my workplace when I moved to Austin. As far as I know it kept working there for another 2-3 years, and by then was most likely 25+ years old. [0] https://goo.gl/photos/qrgoixCJDViks8am9 https://goo.gl/photos/qrgoixCJDViks8am9 [1] https://i.ytimg.com/vi/hLhXgVAYoAE/maxresdefault.jpg https://i.ytimg.com/vi/hLhXgVAYoAE/maxresdefault.jpg Addendum: I just realized that the microwave I have sitting in the kitchen was given to us as a wedding gift in 2001. The clock no longer works properly, but it cooks just fine.
- reitanqild 10y ago
  "Has the technique of cooking food with heat, changed drastically since the 70s?" Ovens? I guess not unless you go for very very high end. I'd like to say a few nice words about my induction stovetop though: if anybody is in the market for an electric stovetop the induction based ones are vastly better IMO. Heats pans faster. Does not heat if there is nothing on top of it. Cools down quicker. Feels a bit magic.
- ethbro 10y ago
  I have a Sunbeam Radiant Toaster from the 1960s that I inherited after my grandmother passed away. It still makes toast like a champ.
- pfooti 10y ago
  One thing you might want to try is a sugar browning test [0]. I have an "ancient" oven - gas fired from the 1970s. It's a rental home and I don't feel like spending my own money on a kitchen upgrade, but it would probably be money well spent. My own oven varies by over 100F plus or minus during regular cooking cycles. This is hugely significant when it comes to baking almost anything. If I put cookie dough in at the wrong time, they'll burn. I do my best to dampen the variability with a baking steel, but a more modern gas oven wouldn't have as much of a range of operating temperatures. Or, at least, a modern and high-quality one. So, in response to your relatively sarcastic question: yes. Things have changed - not in how we cook, but in the quality of homeostatic controls for ovens. http://www.xojane.com/diy/oven-calibration-article http://www.xojane.com/diy/oven-calibration-article (technique from cooking for geeks)
- blubb-fish 10y ago
  well ... your wife refers to the oven (baking) and you respond to cooking. while I would still agree and keep the old oven, I have to say it does make a difference. modern ovens are much more easily regulated to and kept at specific temperatures. to give one example.
- dagw 10y ago
  "Has the technique of cooking food with heat, changed drastically since the 70s?" Convection ovens and steam ovens have become a thing since then. Modern ovens have also become a lot better at keeping a constant temperature. Also my 'modern' (~8-9 years old) oven gets a lot hotter than my old oven.
ams6110 10y ago
I have a Goldstar microwave that I bought about 30 years ago. I belive this company is now named LG. But it's been flawless and still works great. I also have a chest freezer that my parents bought in the late 1970s and it's still working perfectly as well.
- mrbill 10y ago
  I remember our first VCR in the 80s being a Goldstar. I believe that LG at one point stood for "Lucky Goldstar" as they eventually changed company name and branding. Ah, from Wikipedia: "GoldStar merged with Lucky Chemical and LG Cable in 1995, changing the corporate name to Lucky-Goldstar, and then finally to LG Electronics."
hourislate 10y ago
I justs recently replaced a built in GE Microwave's magnetron and diode for around $75 with parts off of Amazon (it was 5 years old). To replace the Microwave would have cost me around $800 and to call a repair person would have been about $250. Thanks to youtube and about 30 minutes of work it is working like new again. These days I fix everything myself. Appliances, cars, electronics, furniture, etc. I also try to buy quality instead of disposable but that is getting harder every year.

bnolsen 10y ago

A serious problem in the US was that regulation demanded clothes washer lids be locked when in operation. This led to forced electronics on clothes washers starting several years ago just to handle the automatic switch. I know Speed Queen was trying to delay this mess but I don't know if they are still manufacturing purely mechanical washers or not...

cma 10y ago
A washer can rip a kid's arms off or worse if their sleeve gets caught in it while the lid is open.
throwaway729 10y ago
Is this true? I bought a (new) washer < 3 months ago that does not lock. Top-load, so maybe that's why? I never understood front-load anyways. Topload fails safe. Front load fails in a giant puddle all over your floor.
- snowwrestler 10y ago
  Front load is better in every other way: easier on your clothes, so they last longer. Uses less water and less soap. Can take bulky fragile items like a down comforter or a tent.
  - amalcon 10y ago
    A top loader with no center agitator is almost as good, though it does still use somewhat more water than a front loader.
  - NDizzle 10y ago
    It's not better in every way. Mildew. Having to leave it open so that the seals air out. Gravity - undefeated champion. Replacement parts and repairs. Get ready to open up your wallet. Good luck working on anything yourself.
    - 10y ago

Keverw 10y ago

I remember seeing on HN a year or two ago? About Samsung smart fridges calendar app not being updated when Google phased out the API it was using. Also Blu-ray players don't get updates after a long while too I've heard as YouTube and Netflix changes their APIs - the devs of these devices don't keep them up to date. I would prefer a dumb TV, and just buy a replaceable box with the computer part. The only way I could see embedded software lasting is if the company made the firmware/OS across all their devices and made it more generalized to work with all their devices of that class.

mrbill 10y ago
That's what I do. I bought the "dumbest" TV I could find; I just want a display with speakers and HDMI inputs. Give me something I can plug the latest smart streaming box into and change that box as needed.
- sankalp_sans 10y ago
  That's where we have a huge gap in device ecosystem. If you want one of the best displays on a TV, it comes "bundled in" with "smart" features. It's a shame that appliances industry doesn't let us customize exactly what we want (that lasts longer and hence would be comforting to pay a good price for).
  - rsync 10y ago
    "If you want one of the best displays on a TV, it comes "bundled in" with "smart" features. " Not true. If you buy a commercial display (you know, those panels you see in airports) not only will it be a far higher quality display than any consumer model, but it will also be the dumbest display you can imagine. They're not that much more expensive - which makes sense, since end users are sometimes building video walls out of 10 or 12 or 16 of them ...
    - gozur88 10y ago
      What I worry about with televisions is they'll come out with new standards that will render my keep-it-for-30-years TV obsolete in three or four years.

foobarian 10y ago

My problem with the current market is that it's next to impossible to determine the quality of a machine. I would gladly pay $3000 for a washer if I could somehow tell that it will be better built, with higher quality metals, inner parts, and overall longer lasting. But it seems that the extra money these days just buys more flashy bells and whistles that just increase the chance of failure. Sadly my strategy has been to buy the cheapest possible appliances, understanding that they will fail within 2-3 years no matter what we buy, and then just replace them with less hard feelings. Disposable appliances indeed. Did this with a display model Whirlpool dishwasher from Home Depot which we bought for $200. Had some dings on the stainless surface, and I was sure it was going to have a short life given it was a display unit. But ironically at this point it's made it twice as long as the fancy Samsung unit it replaced.

tiatia 10y ago
"would gladly pay $3000 for a washer" Miele. https://9to5mac.com/2011/03/07/how-steve-jobs-picks-a-washerdryer/ https://9to5mac.com/2011/03/07/how-steve-jobs-picks-a-washer...
- reitanqild 10y ago
  Miele Seconded: the Miele that my family insisted on buying us for the wedding is well beyond 8 years and we haven't had a single problem. 10 years warranty but rumour have it they might easily last up 20 years although you might have to change parts somewhere between 10 and 20 years. Oh, and I think it cost something less than USD1000.
  - PeterStuer 10y ago
    Yes Miele, but get as basic model a model as possible as they also have these "1.000 features you will never use but that will break and stop your appliance from working" types. A basic Miele washing machine will caost around $1.000 and weigh around 100kg, so don't put it on a flimsy table, but it should last you well over 10 years.

ryanmarsh 10y ago

After repairing my appliances one by one, finding the schematics, diagnosing parts and then searching for replacements I discovered the cheapest model and the most expensive model of most appliances by the same manufacturer share all the same parts except the exterior and control panel. That dishwasher or washing machine with extra modes for $1,000 more? It's the same as the cheapest model, they just didn't put the extra controls on the panel.

reitanqild 10y ago
After repairing my appliances one by one, finding the schematics, diagnosing parts and then searching for replacements Where did you find the schematics? I tried a few years ago to find just instructions for some appliances and gave up because of search engine spam etc.
- kw71 10y ago
  elektrotanya is one good library. ~10 years ago I decided to obtain and review service manuals before buying machinery, to be sure I could have the documentation and to try and figure out what pile of crap I am getting into.
- ryanmarsh 10y ago
  Some of them have them in a plastic sleeve inside the machine. Others you can find online. They're intended for repairmen.
- EEGuy 10y ago
  Search for PDF < Model Number from appliance nameplate > Prefixing your appliance model number with PDF cuts way down on unrelated sales material and spam.
yjftsjthsd-h 10y ago
Could you upgrade the cheap model, or is the takeaway that the expensive options aren't really valuable?
- 10y ago

WalterBright 10y ago

I've had many cars with electric windows. They all eventually failed, usually when it was raining, and the windows could not be raised. Fixing them would cost over $500. My truck now has hand cranked windows, and mechanical door locks. They're no trouble at all, and I'm happy with them.

hive_mind 10y ago
I'm looking for a truck with hand cranked windows. What brand is this?
- owly 10y ago
  Seriously! I'd like to know too. I thought these went extinct.
- lb1lf 10y ago
  Base spec Land Cruisers and Geländewagens still have hand-cranked windows. Whether you can still buy one in the so-called civilized world is another matter altogether.
- WalterBright 10y ago
  80's Bronco 2
mrbill 10y ago
I've had to replace the motor/regulator for my driver's side power window twice now ('05 Mitsu Galant). Fortunately it's just a $75-100 part and less than an hour of work.
- dclowd9901 10y ago
  Mitsubishis have always been notorious for shoddy build quality.
- ashark 10y ago
  Can confirm, window motor replacement's not terrible, and Youtube will probably tell you exactly how to do it for your make/model/year (did for our '01 Honda, which is the only car we've ever had power window problems with)

agumonkey 10y ago

Random note, seems to me that the *washers market has been a scam for a long time, the only difference between models seem superficial: interface aesthetics, a few programs and a new screen. Imagine if the rotor and fluid was decoupled and you could swap the controlling part ?