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China congress: BBC team forced to sign confession
- js8 10y agoIs there some (longer) article with more context in it? I would like to read more about it. Anyway, this is why free speech is important.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- peteretep 10y agoFree speech is the government not officially taking action against you for your speech. This was just run-of-the-mill intimidation by those in power, of a free media. Really how far away is this from putting journalists in cages and having your audience shout at them at campaign rallies?
- inimino 10y agoIt is an issue of free speech and freedom of the press. I'm not sure why every time anyone mentions free speech these days someone is always ready to argue the definition. Whether it is "official" or not is totally irrelevant as the unofficial policy is the one that matters and everyone in China understands that.
- stefantalpalaru 10y ago> Free speech is the government not officially taking action against you for your speech. It's much more than that. From the Universal Declaration of Human Rights: > Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.
- noobermin 10y agoWhy is this being downvoted? How is it when X person chills the press is bad but when Y person I like does it, it's okay?
- peteretep 10y agoBecause everyone is nitpicking the first statement and not reading the second.
- mason240 10y agoYou are confusing the concept of "Free speech" with the American First Amendment.
- phreack 10y agoThe current state of human rights in China, and its utter, utter lack of admonition by world leaders due to their dependence on their economy is to me one of the greatest tragedies of today. I truly don't know what could be done to help free speech prosper there as it should.
- chrischen 10y agoTo admonish, you'd have to 1) Stop buying Chinese made products 2) Stop US violations of human rights (gitmo) Frankly, without doing this, you'd never be able to admonish and have it carry any real weight with Chinese policy makers. They'd just see a black pot calling out the kettle.
- krona 10y ago> 2) Stop US violations of human rights (gitmo) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
- idra 10y agoIs invoked in EVERY China-related thread on HN pretty much without exceptions.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- coldtea 10y agoAnd Russia, and right vs left, etc. Invocation of whataboutism is a mind bug and a lazy excuse to be one-sided that has to die. And it's not just a "let's focus on X FOR NOW" issue (which would still be wrong, as issues should be judged relatively to gauge their importance). It's mainly invoked by people who never bother to point fingers on the non-X sides, so the "let's focus on X FOR NOW" is more like "let's focus on X permanently".
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- giis 10y agoOn free rights: There was one time - one student was curious about other things like religious belief etc. The short conversion went like this: He:"Are you a Buddhist?" Me:"No, I'm Hindu .. but I like Buddhism more." He:"??" Me:"What , I don't understand your question" He:"Why you do that?" Me:"Do what?" He:"Like Buddhism? while being Hindu" Me:"Nothing wrong in it, I like teaching of Buddha" He:"Lucky, you choose what you want. Here we can't openly tell we follow religion." Me:"Why?" He:"Our govt, won't allow such things." we know Chinese communist party has strong influence in people way of life,but hugely disappointed to hear people can't even decide which religion to follow,if one wants to? I agree, every country has its own issue, but free speech and free rights are important. For ex, If social media like Facebook/google etc banned in other countries, there will be huge uproar by people in the name of free speech. Even the one who never used social media, will be against govt decision. Sincerely hope common people from world's most largest population will have these rights in future.
- trome 10y agoYour being a bit presumptuous there, in most Western countries they'd be able to block VK and other non-local sites without protests in the streets, and if they occured you'd see a significant portion of the country (esp. in the US) hoping for the police to come in and crush said protest. Depending on the subject, the protest can be crushed, hence why most public spaces in the US have been bricked over for easy protest breakup.
- mmirate 10y ago> bricked over for easy protest breakup What do you mean by this, exactly?
- trome 10y agoAt UW Seattle, they bricked over Red Sqare (and hence made it red) so that they could use water cannons on the protesters and they'd have nothing to firmly attach/affix themselves to, whether that be trees, stakes in the ground, etc. This was also done to many urban spaces and college campus squares at the same time, as it is very effective. Note: love the downvotes, keep 'em coming. I'm just referencing history here :P
- rodionos 10y agoNot that I think the subject is not important, but is this really topical for HN? On the other hand, it has 100+ votes, so perhaps HN demographics is changing.
- samwilliams 10y agoI think the HN crowd has always been interested in this sort of stuff? It certainly has since I started reading it (~7 years ago). One of the things that I like about HN is that we are not completely inward looking. From the guidelines: > On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity. > Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic. You could certainly say that a BBC group being forced to sign a confession for attempting to conduct an interview 'gratifies one's intellectual curiosity' about the world, but it could certainly fall under 'Most stories about politics, or crime', too. Either way, as you point out, once a post has over 100 points you probably have your answer!
- rodionos 10y ago> once a post has over 100 points you probably have your answer! It seems that we both agree that it's an Off-Topic article at face value and yet it is On-Topic based on the votes. The votes in effect override the second criteria of relevance, not unlike the final clause in Azimov's law of robotics. Hence I'm genuinely curious about any shifts in the audience demographics that are occurring.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- hohohmm 10y agoWhy am I seeing stuff like this on Hacker News? Which part of it is relevant?
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- ionised 10y agoRelevant to what?
- kelvin0 10y agoTo Hacking ...
- tomhoward 10y agoOn-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity. [1] If you think the story is inappropriate given those guidelines, you should flag it. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- philliphaydon 10y agoI'm confused. So we are upset with China and it's lack of human rights. But we get upset with Trump for talking to Taiwan... If we were advocating human rights we would also advocate against One China policy.
- laurent123456 10y agoExcept that Trump only talk to Taiwan as a way to bargain with China, which is a dumb diplomatic move (since, given how complex the situation is, the status quo is probably what's best for both Taiwan and China). Probably the last thing Trump care about is human rights.
- philliphaydon 10y agoMy point is that if America wants to talk about human rights in china, then it also has to denounce its acceptance of One China policy.
- ZeroGravitas 10y agoProbably not wise to mention Trump then, who praised the Chinese regime for crushing the pro-democracy "riot" (his word) in Tienanmen Square.
- TorKlingberg 10y agoTell me again how mainstream media is outdated and we should listen directly to the official sources.
- retox 10y agoMainstream media is an uncritical mouthpiece for official sources.
- Paradigma11 10y agoAs seen by the coverage of the current Trump administration. Not.
- throw2016 10y agoHuman rights have always been used as a cynical tool tool by a clique of countries to forward their own interests. Saudis can be ignored for decades inspite of being the worst offenders on any parameter but Iran, Syria or Libya must be bombed. That itself stops any credible 'human rights concerns' by the US or Europe and infact shifts it the other way for warmongering, massive violations and basically destroying these countries. What can be worse for anyone genuinely concerned about human rights? There have been zero consequences for US citizens involved in these violations from Iraq to Snowden so the idea that we can put the spotlight on anyone is laughable and smacks of dissonance. We can't be building the infrastructure to run total surveillance states, attack other countries at will and yet lecture others on human rights. This is politics masquerading as concern and its the worst sort of exploitation that trivialize and make a mockery of 'human rights'. This type of sanctimonious posturing is completely disconnected from the way the world works and way past its sell by date. Integrity requires either stop the self serving geopolitical agendas or stop the posturing.
- popobobo 10y agoWhite sjw got kicked in the ass by yellow mobs yet blamed the chineese government.
- dang 10y agoWe've banned this account.
- brilliantcode 10y agoYou can see how behind China is in terms of the West. The concept of Human Rights is non existent in newly emerging markets. It took the US a few centuries. I'd imagine it would take China similar amount of time before it becomes "cool" like the US. This is why I don't see China replacing US hegemony anytime soon in our lifetime. Civilizations upgrade themselves internally as they realize the overwhelming benefits of valuing human life.
- virmundi 10y agoI believe we're seeing the systematic destruction of human rights in the West. Many governments from former British colonies desire a centralized economy. They want to watch their citizenry. As we dismantle the West, it will look more like China. China can point to our destruction while dealing with 3rd World African countries. They can show how their form of government is the same as ours. They can tell the Africans that it's okay to be a semi-brutal dictatorship. As a result the Chinese government can get along with new trade partners better than the US.
- brilliantcode 10y agoI don't see any evidence to support what you wrote. Division? Yes. It's more likely that we are seeing an emboldened China that is completely oblivious to the nature of capitalism and it's incompatibility with a centralized economy in the long run. I feel like we are going to deal with multiple Chinese states when the communist party inevitably loses it's grip on the populace. It will be just like the old times, when China consisted of competing Kingdoms fighting for resources which really propelled it to reach hegemony in Asia.
- virmundi 10y agoLook at the US. We have a surveillance State. The US government keeps tabs on everyone. Do they care? Probably not, but you have a file. The British won't allow locking blades. They too have a surveillance farther along than the US'. Australia is the same. The Indians would if they could, but their corruption holds them back.