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LSD 'microdosing' is trending in Silicon Valley
- pmoriarty 10y agoWhat I wonder is whether the stuff on the street is really LSD. There's a lot of counterfeit material floating around, and (as far as I know) no testing kits that can detect the real thing. I'd be very wary -- especially at larger doses.
- tim333 10y agoLSD is usually LSD because it is way more potent per unit volume than any other recreational drug. It's also cheap per dose. In terms of not knowing what you are getting it's much more common to find stuff like 'mdma' actually containing LSD. It's true it can be hard to know the dose. I'd also be very wary more because LSD can cause harm than it possibly being something else. As an aside here's a dosage guide: https://www.reddit.com/r/LSD/comments/2hg6io/different_dosage_of_lsd_explained_from_20ug1500ug/ https://www.reddit.com/r/LSD/comments/2hg6io/different_dosag...
- pmoriarty 10y ago"LSD is usually LSD because it is way more potent per unit volume than any other recreational drug." This used to be true, but is very unfortunately not true any more. Newer synthetic drugs, like bromo-dragonfly, are approaching LSD in potency[1] making them essentially indistinguishable from LSD in practice, and resulting in actual fatalities.[2][3] [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromo-DragonFLY#Dosage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromo-DragonFLY#Dosage [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromo-DragonFLY#Toxicity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromo-DragonFLY#Toxicity [3] - https://erowid.org/chemicals/bromo_dragonfly/bromo_dragonfly_death.shtml https://erowid.org/chemicals/bromo_dragonfly/bromo_dragonfly...
- monocasa 10y agoThere absolutely test kits that can tell the difference between, say, LSD and the 2C variants.
- pmoriarty 10y agoThat's good to know, but at typical LSD dosages the 2C variants wouldn't be the ones I'd be worried about. Are there any kits to tell LSD from drugs like bromo-dragonfly?
- reese_john 10y agogwern has a great write-up on this: https://www.gwern.net/LSD%20microdosing https://www.gwern.net/LSD%20microdosing
- Analemma_ 10y agoWhere he reports a null result. It's wasting your money, take a full dose or not at all.
- apl002 10y agogo big or go home!
- apl002 10y agogo big or go home!
- boomboomsubban 10y agoIt's a sample size of one, even a well designed test is basically meaningless. Plus, from my research on the subject, a full dose can have positive effects for months after the experience. Taking a full dose around a week before the experiment may have tainted the data.
- Analemma_ 10y agoIt's a sample size of one, but considering the rigorous methodology used I think it counts for at least as much evidence as the anecdotes of people going "it totally boosts my creativity man" with no control group and subjective measurements of efficacy that are highly vulnerable to a placebo effect.
- hashkb 10y agoCareful not to over-micro-dose, then it's just a really weird day at work. Heard from a friend.
- ryanlol 10y agoOr a really fun day at work!
- Thrillington 10y agoPossibly a really fun last day at work
- jostmey 10y agoI interpret this as Silicon valley losing its way. I'm not judging LSD use, but if you need it to get through the day then you need to find a different career. If you need your high paying, high stress job to afford your lifestyle, you need to find a more economically friendly environment.
- Waterluvian 10y agoYou may be right. But I see it from a different angle. I don't see this as using drugs to get through the day. I see it as trying to get something for nothing. It feels like a very Silicon Valley attitude to want to discover a free lunch; some sort of bonus optimization. I would probably most expect this to come from Silicon Valley, Wall Street, professional sports, etc. Anywhere that fosters an attitude of seeking significant optimization or getting something for nothing. Though this is all just personal perception. It's certainly filled with bias.
- SomeStupidPoint 10y agoIt's not trying to get "something for nothing", it's trying to tune your brain/body to the workload you actually perform by altering the way signals propagate. Tuning low-level settings to optimize the stack for the workload expected is standard engineering practice. Heck, we even do it in hardware: deciding if we want higher single-thread performance or higher throughput for a given heat envelope.
- spraak 10y agoIt sounds you practice micro dosing? You speak nearly in a vernacular about it
- mistermann 10y agoIf you see ten dollars on the ground, is there harm in picking it up?
- kobeya 10y agoMicrodosing LSD is not about "getting through your day." If you were complaining about adderall addiction, maybe you'd have a point. Microdosing LSD is about changing the user's thought processes, making them more creative and more able to make and explore abstract connections.
- imperio59 10y agoHow about not? Drugs still have incredibly harmful effects. Some people take trips and never come back off these drugs. Imagine going to work in the morning on a supposed "micro"dose just to realize you had an overdose and end up in a psych ward for two weeks. You'll also likely lose your job as most tech companies have no drug in the workplace policies... This is just another BS article from someone who knows nothing about how drugs can very dramatically Fuck up a person's life. (How do I know? I've worked with many recovering drug addicts in the past who all wish they had never started in the first place)
- xkxx 10y agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh7l8dx-h8M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh7l8dx-h8M
- ch4s3 10y ago> Some people take trips and never come back off these drugs What? Hallucinogens don't cause physical dependency and tolerance builds quickly so psychological habits are hard to form as well.
- donaldguy 10y agoHPPD is definitely a real thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogen_persisting_perception_disorder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogen_persisting_percep... And there is some evidence that taking psychedelics can precipitate long lasting or even chronic psychosis in those with genetic predispositions I interpreted what they said as a reflection of those facts, though you are correct that risk of dependence is relatively low
- lcw 10y agoI feel like I have the obligation to say that if you are a generally a happy person and good at what you do I highly doubt taking LSD in any dose is worth the risk of a bad trip. Not sure why HN has an affinity for LSD? It's pretty psychologically dangerous imho.
- grzm 10y agoNot sure why HN has an affinity for LSD? Please don't make generalizations about the entirety of HN. You're a member of the HN community as well: do you have an affinity for LSD? If you have some stats backing this up, I think a lot of people would find it interesting: at least I would.
- tossaway1 10y agoI think it's clear that lcw was making an observation about the tone of HN comments on the topic. I found it to be a reasonable one that matches my perception. Disputing his comment makes sense if you think he's wrong, but it seems unreasonable to require people to back up such commentary with "stats".
- grzm 10y agoThere's a tendency in discourse to make generalizations across large groups of people, which degrades our ability to see the nuance and diversity of opinion and perspective that clearly exists. This gets particularly pernicious when discussing contentious topics. Given the how damaging this can be (current political discourse in the US or here on HN is a good example), making such generalizations really needs to be justified. In 'lcw's comment, the generalization doesn't add anything substantive to the comment. Indeed, one could read it as disparaging to the HN community because it's too naïve to understand the risks of LSD, rather than granting the members the benefit of the doubt that they're capable of making reasonable decisions. And that's ultimately the point: by making generalizations like this, it doesn't add anything substantive or constructive to the comment and ignores the wide range of opinions across the HN community. Edit to add: As an aside, you mention that 'lcw's observation matches your perception. It's well known that our perceptions are often wrong, or at least skewed. That's why backing them up with data is important, to make sure our perceptions are consistent with reality.
- hellofunk 10y agoI would strongly encourage anyone looking for new perceptions that aid in concentration and/or creativity to first really try, and properly try, and without giving up too soon, the art of meditation. It's cheaper, safer, longer-lasting, and most certainly a higher-quality experience once properly learned.
- akud 10y agoI'll second that. There is nothing that will change your life more than developing a daily meditation practice. My mindfulness practice helps me to achieve direct insights in software engineering, though that's not the reason I do it. I do it for the insights into my own psyche, and for my mental health. It just happens to be the case that quieting the chatter in you mind will help you step out unproductive thought patterns in engineering more quickly.
- mistermann 10y agoDoes meditation quiet the mental chatter only while meditating, or do you find it has a calming effect in general throughout the day? (Did you perhaps alter other aspects of your life as well to contribute to that, such as reducing exposure to the news? Something else I am considering.)
- akud 10y agoI would say it has a calming effect throughout the day, because when you sit you practice the mental activity of bringing your attention to the present moment. It's like building a muscle; when the muscle is stronger you can use it throughout the day. At first it's very hard to control your attention, but with practice you get better at it, and will start to notice your mind going off into repetitive thought patterns sooner.
- neom 10y agoThe above has been my experience also. It's sorta like I discovered how to interface with my mind? I can kinda be like... yo, what do you think about this? listen for a bit to what is "said" and then move on.
- M_Grey 10y agoAh yes... you see it anywhere that people are closely matched and seek perceived "edges". Athletes wear their copper bullshit, Valley types take stimulants and psychedelics. It's a symptom of people not understanding the nature of survivorship bias, hindsight fallacy in general, and an inability to delay gratification for a greater reward. There's nothing inherently wrong with the drug, but there's something inherently wrong with the behavior around it, by people who are so desperate for edge. Down that road ultimately lies Lance Armstrong, and East German women with beards.
- SomeStupidPoint 10y agoYour last paragraph contradicts your first -- top athletes doping do get performance gains, while your first paragraph seems to indicate you don't think that small doses of LSD are effective (for the people taking them). I get you might be against performance enhancing drugs wholesale, but there's nothing "inherently wrong" with taking a chemical to perform better. If anything, it should be a personal choice, like working longer hours or taking a higher risk job.
- M_Grey 10y ago>There's nothing inherently wrong with the drug, but there's something inherently wrong with the behavior around it, by people who are so desperate for edge. Down that road ultimately lies Lance Armstrong, and East German women with beards. In other words, if you're desperate for an edge and willing to spend money, compromise your health and integrity for it, then you'll eventually move on from expensive bullshit like copper bands, to blood doping (in the case of sports). Right now, with the state of the "art", you're mostly just hurting yourself, but I think it's reasonable to assume that given the money and interest, it will be determined which drugs/methods do yield actual results. If the attitude remains the same, "Anything for an edge," then when that comes you're going to be screwed as a group.
- AndrewKemendo 10y agocompromise your health and integrity for it Why is microdosing LSD compromising integrity?
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- intrasight 10y agoI'll stick to meditation, yoga, and the occasional premium IPA. I do understand the compelling nature of chemical enhancement - especially for creative endevours. David Bowie cranked out amazing albums year-after-year while high on coke. But like usual, it became a problem he had to address.
- api 10y agoHeavy stimulants are like running your car with NoS all the time. You'll get amazing performance until your engine fires a rod through your hood. Bowie had a near psychotic break. Much lighter use however may be more sustainable. There is no law that says the human brain can't be tuned a little for different modes, and I have no problem with people doing that. There may still be tradeoffs though, so anyone doing this should try to be self aware and observe the effects carefully.
- stevehiehn 10y agoHmm, i thought your body builds tolerance to LSD very quickly. I've seen people at music festivals take twice as much the next day to get the same effect.
- bhoeting 10y agoIt does. You're supposed to microdose every 4 days to avoid tolerance buildup.
- always_good 10y agoIt's hard for me to imagine getting any meaningful programming work done on even a low dose of acid. One look at my computer and I go "I sure waste a lot of my life on this thing. I'm going to go outside."
- tnecniv 10y agoI'm pretty sure I'd just fall down a YouTube hole and never recover.
- fsiefken 10y agoA microdose is not a low dose, it's a dose where you don't notice you are tripping but your perception and concentration is enhanced
- simooooo 10y agoI'd probably take too much, turn inside out and get stuck to the ceiling.
- Hydraulix989 10y agoI'm a SV entrepreneur who is pretty well-connected with the community here (only mentioning this for the sake of credibility). Maybe it's because I missed Burning Man this year, but I haven't heard of anybody doing this outside of articles on garbage news outlets like TechCrunch that say people are. Marijuana or Adderall, sure (Meadow and Eaze are doing well here); maybe even the /r/nootropics stack, but not hallucinogenic substances. I know people who have experimented with shrooms, but they don't consider them a "drug of choice," let alone a productivity enhancer by any means. In fact, one of my acquaintances ended up going off the deep end when he started taking LSD. It was a really sad story.
- csp256 10y agoAbsolutely, taking LSD can end poorly. There is plenty of evidence for it. Some people view their experiences during a trip as more important than their daily lives, and down that way lives nothing good. In fact, the morning after my first trip on LSD I thought "I should not do that more than, at absolute most, once a month." It did turn out to take me about a full month before I could take what I had experienced in stride, without any lasting delusion about the nature of the real world. But I will tell you with certainty (while the article maybe over blown) there are many people, myself included, who work in SV and take great comfort in sub-threshold psychedelics. Without it, I worry too much and am a perfectionist to my detriment. With it, I can contribute without fear of judgment.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- sbussard 10y agoBut why?
- xatan_dank 10y agoI think microdosing LSD for the purpose of increased work performance is absolutely ridiculous. I have absolutely nothing against performance enhancing drugs in the workplace or other areas so long as the drugs themselves can be taken safely, but I think the use of LSD and psychedelics in general for this purpose is misguided for several reasons. I think self-reported gains in creativity are meaningless in defending LSD microdosing. Psychedelics are not magic creativity chemicals and their use does not inherently make anyone more creative. How are we defining creative? What does that even mean? Is the code I wrote on LSD really that much better than the code I wrote sober or on a different drug or combination of drugs altogether? What about strategic business decisions, design work, or documentation? How does one accurately measure 'creativity'- is that even a desired trait while working for most people? I also don't see why it's necessary to use hallucinogens during the work day. Why can't you just drop acid on the weekend or vacation when you actually have the time to enjoy the experience (as heavily as you'd like) in whatever setting you feel most comfortable in? If you really are invested enough in your career to do psychedelics for the sole purpose of workplace creativity, can't you just do your creative thinking then? I think this approach to applying hallucinogens to your work would be as effective as microdosing, if not more so. My biggest criticism is this though: isn't the whole point of psychedelics the expansion of consciousness and wisdom beyond its current state? The psychedelic community is generally a fairly anti-authoritarian one and I tend to think that it's not just because the state often treats the use of hallucinogens with the same level of violence as far more socially dangerous behavior. Using psychedelics for as shallow of a reason as coming up with ways to better optimize your stupid advertisement platform to sell foot cream to seniors is a tragedy. Besides, there already exist drugs for this purpose (coffee). And these points ignore the main risks which are obviously being caught and having an adverse health effect. I think this is a stupid trend highly indicative of just how boring and uncreative the tech industry is. At the end of the day, some of us use drugs to get through the work day. If you want to use psychedelics to do so, that's your business, I don't know how you function, but I doubt you're drastically outperforming the coffee guy or the straight edge guy at the office.
- pmoriarty 10y agoThere have been some studies on the effect of psychedelics on creativity. A particularly relevant study by Oscar Janiger has been documented in LSD, Spirituality, and the Creative Process.[1] Other studies (including ones on microdosing) are discussed in The Psychedelic Explorer's Guide by James Fadiman.[2] That said, this is a wide open field that could greatly benefit from more research. I am hopeful that such research will once again become acceptable to the scientific establishment before too long, as a number of studies on other effects of psychedelics have recently been completed with much success. [1] - https://www.amazon.com/LSD-Spirituality-Creative-Process-Groundbreaking/dp/0892819731/ https://www.amazon.com/LSD-Spirituality-Creative-Process-Gro... [2] - https://www.amazon.com/Psychedelic-Explorers-Guide-Therapeutic-Journeys/dp/1594774021/ https://www.amazon.com/Psychedelic-Explorers-Guide-Therapeut...
- exodust 10y agoMakes sense in theory and to be honest is intriguing. Provided the quality and dosage was strictly controlled and adjusted to fit the user. Discipline also needed to avoid too much too often. Doesn't help that it's illegal. You wouldn't want to be doing it to fix a "normal problem" that could be addressed by eating nutritious food and getting more sleep for example. Psychedelics aren't suited to capitalist agendas either. The idea is to use psychedelics away from the office for perspective and focus shift. I suppose that's normal dosages though, and the idea here is micro-dosages which would be more like a good strong coffee but a clearer more mental buzz. An extra hit above the micro-dose might make you shut down your PC and head to the park for the rest of the day. Risk. Let's face it, we're not all building things that are making the world a better place. Psychedelics tend to expose anything trivial that's masquerading as important. Your ability to discriminate genuine from fake is sharper. At normal dosages at least, you feel attracted to these insights and will follow them out the door if that's where they lead.
- wanna_try_lsd 10y agoHow to get LSD? I bet is quite hard to produce it yourself. How I know if the dose is right and the quality of LSD is good.
- homakov 10y agoI don't know about microdosing, but 300ug kept me 40+ hours awake and caused anxiety/insomnia for 6 months afterwards. So be careful.