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How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network
- trome 10y agoSo, why does anyone pay attention to the truly awful human being known as Peter Thiel? Between his plots to destroy the infrastructure that allowed PayPal and Y Combinator to be built, and his active attempts to rip away rights from other LGBT people, of which he is one, it seems like a poor idea to pay this person any mind.
- the-dude 10y agoWhat is wrong with destroying PayPal ?
- trome 10y agoPayPal will almost assuredly escape unscathed, Peter Thiel pulling up the ladder after him so others cannot be successful was what I was getting at there.
- stagbeetle 10y agoI'm interested to read about this, can you point me in the right direction?
- wslh 10y ago> why does anyone pay attention to ... Because he has a lot of power to influence the decision makers in one of the most powerful countries in the world?
- reese_john 10y agoWhat are some of his active attempts to rip away LGBT rights?
- Dagwoodie 10y agoHe voted for a <whisper>Republican</whisper>.
- ygaf 10y agoThanks for the translation.
- krath94 10y agoIt's sad that people generalize about people that vote Republican. Most republicans (or people that vote republican) I have met, including myself, have been supportive of the LGBT community. Not ALL Republicans are against LGBT, just like not all liberals want free government handouts. These generalizations about the "other side" are counter-productive. Also, I'm not saying you came across as generalizing, I know you were making a joke, but a lot of people actually do think this way.
- foldr 10y agoAll of the Republican nominees this time around were opposed to gay marriage. So it doesn't seem to be that unfair to generalize to the conclusion that Republicans aren't very concerned about LGBT rights. They're certainly willing to vote for candidates who don't support LGBT rights.
- vinhboy 10y agoIt always seem odd to me that on a site where people are expert at algorithms and problem solving, lots of people here cannot deduce this very simple "therefore" scenario. Or maybe people just really hate duck typing :)
- ZeroGravitas 10y agoThey also added anti-LBGT elements to the GOP platform. There are of course gay Republicans, and they argued against this, both on the grounds that it's immoral and discriminatory, but also that it wasn't in the Republican party's long term interest as younger members are far less anti-LGBT but they couldn't convince anyone.
- fauigerzigerk 10y agoI have long stopped paying attention to what he says, not because he is an awful human being, but simply because his addiction to being contrarian seems to Trump all other considerations to a degree that makes his positions utterly predictable, boring and uninsightful.
- officelineback 10y agoDidn't he fund Hulk Hogan's lawsuit against Gawker which essentially put that horrible rag out of business?
- krath94 10y agoIs he awful because you don't agree with him? Or because he actually did something awful? I have a feeling it's the first one.
- rudolf0 10y agoTrump is a lot of things, but he isn't really anti-LGBT.
- sallyfour 10y agoHonestly he was the most progressive candidate in the Republican field.
- threatofrain 10y agoIn my view, rich people have the prerogative to adopt political views which appear contrary to their own interests; but in fact, they can easily achieve those interests elsewhere regardless of political environment. You can adopt any view on abortion you want if you and the people you know can easily fly to another country to get excellent medical service. What do you care if gun laws are loosened or tightened? You have armed bodyguards, and the kind of gun crime people decry isn't the kind that reaches rich areas.
- Anderkent 10y agoBecause all rich people are completely selfish, and care nothing for others. /s
- threatofrain 10y agoI'm not talking about propensities of selfishness. I'm talking about the prerogative of power. Selflessness doesn't change that. Whether or not you are selfish does not hobble your prerogative to purchase citizenship and property in New Zealand.
- redwood 10y agoI just don't understand how he can call himself a libertarian. Self-rationalizing has no ends.
- clydethefrog 10y agoLook at the people behind Y Combinator that condemn Trump because according to them he represents a real threat to the safety of women, minorities, and immigrants[0], but at the same time have many financial ties with Thiel's practices. They have financial power to take a stand against this threat, but decide not do it. [0] http://blog.samaltman.com/the-2016-election http://blog.samaltman.com/the-2016-election
- potatosoup 10y ago> He represents a real threat to the safety of women, minorities, and immigrants As an immigrant myself, I keep seeing famous people write this, but I want some kind of "citation needed." What plans does this actually refer to?
- Anderkent 10y agoIt's not a complaint about any specific plans he has made, it's a complaint about his general approach to those communities. The risk is not that he'll implement this particular idea, it's that all of his ideas are shaped by his abusive personality.
- metaphorm 10y agowhat did you expect from a vampire?
- zip1234 10y agoPalantir makes an analysis tool. Excel is also used for Intel analysis. Does that make Bill Gates evil? Poor click bait article that starts off with personal attacks and is completely meant to sensationalize what is basically a souped up MS Excel.
- return0 10y agoSince Thiel is now part of the US government, i think it is not unexpected that he will be attacked. Time will show if the mud they throw will stay.
- Nokinside 10y agoSomeone might argue that there is difference between off the shelf analysis tool and government contractor selling his services.
- zip1234 10y agoA fair critique although Microsoft is also a government contractor. I suppose the difference is that their income is not entirely dependent on the government.
- griffinmmahon 10y agoAs far as I can tell, there's no new "technology" in whatever product Palantir offers (I have briefly used it before?). It seems to me that it's just a program for data visualization, which given that the government is one of their customers, is quite the grifting of the public.
- swalsh 10y agoI certainly have never used it before, but I got the impression it's a giant graph database, and an easy UX on top to search it.
- tomlock 10y agoI interviewed for them a few months back and they have some things surrounding data tagging and linking that fall under "dynamic ontology" they'd probably consider unique. And they have some access control stuff that seems neat. I don't understand either concept fully - only got 3 rounds in.
- griffinmmahon 10y agoDidn't know about this, thanks for the info!
- clydethefrog 10y agoThe technology in the first iPhone ten years ago also existed for many years. Look how much society has changed thanks to Apple strategy of combining technology with design and good usability. That's the real and in my opinion frightening innovation behind Palantir. It's selling mass surveillance that "just works".
- liquidise 10y agoThey are selling data visualization, not mass surveillance. There is a key distinction here. If it had some out that MongoDB was being used as the underlying datastore for XKS or that Tableau was being used to visualize the data, would we be decrying those products too?
- angry-hacker 10y agoWhat about ex president Obama who actually used the tech? So much outrage for Thiel, but where were the protests when Obama wiretapped the world? Ps. I think Thiel is a hypocrite if he really thinks himself as libertarian. Also, despite having money and power I think he has big balls to go against SV where he made himself. I also don't understand how did he became so powerful, every time he talks.. He has charisma of an old rag.
- alphonsegaston 10y agoThe Intercept has written about Obama's abuse of the surveillance state and executive power since its inception. This kind of whataboutism adds little to the discussion.
- zzzeek 10y ago> but where were the protests when Obama wiretapped the world? right here: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/26/nsa-rally-stop-watching-washington-snowden https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/26/nsa-rally-stop... now stop derailing. Thiel is the one in power right now.
- otalp 10y agoThere were numerous pieces on The Guardian, Intercept, NYT and Vox decrying Obama's mass surveillance as a huge blot on his administration and his biggest stain alongside illegal drone strikes. It was literally one of the biggest reasons people aside from Republicans disliked his tenure. There were a ton of protests against mass surveillance around the time of the whole Snowden fiasco, and even the Oscars recognized Citizenfour, which critisised Obama for massively expanding mass surveillance.
- arca_vorago 10y agoWhile there is plenty of discussion to be had on Palanyir, I think the more relevant discussion would be in the role the CIA plays in infiltration-by-default through In-Q-Tel of companies we like to forget got their start there, such as Facebook and Google and many more.
- arca_vorago 10y agoTo clarify, I understand that George Tenet said that IQT was completely seperate from the company, but I doubt anyone really beleives that. If you really think there is such a seperation I would like to know what indicates that seperation to you. (for example, I could imagine one argument being the prism documents showing resistence to tapping from google) Hence, I think it's a relevant issue to bring up that Google and Facebook and others may have had CIA-inside from the start, which could explain some of the privacy-eroding feature-creep and mass-cognitive influence that has happened since both of their inceptions. You can bury your head in the sand all you want, but think of the implications if I am even partially correct about that.
- 0x27081990 10y agoMost comments here seem to hate Peter Thiel, but when it comes to Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg and Larry Page (all whom seem to be in bed with governments since a long time and worked with Hillary Clinton's campaign staff), well there's nothing wrong there because democrats are the good guys, right? What would you do in their place? They don't make the rules. Government does, and you vote for government. So don't try to blame them. IBM, Microsoft and RedHat main clients are the US Government. You think they don't have backdoors? What about Google and Facebook? For the record, I'm not even American so don't start calling me whatever you call Trump supporters. I'm libertarian.
- ionised 10y agoNo, all of those people are vile in their own ways.
- throwaway2048 10y agoMultiple people can be bad for reasons entirely their own, "but shes doing it TOOOOOOO" is the reasoning and defense of a child.
- holydude 10y agoWhere did he imply he was defending it ? He was just pointing out that Peter Thiel gets all the hate while Zuck and the others are praised as technology innovators and saviors of humanity.
- throwaway2048 10y agohardly, all the people he named get critisized constantly, here especially.
- 0x27081990 10y agoWait to see 2020 when everybody here will be on Zuckerberg For President's train
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- madengr 10y agoI stopped reading when I hit "petty and vengeful".
- lmdok 10y agoIP addresses on some slides were redacted but are still available here: https://prod01-cdn07.cdn.firstlook.org/wp-uploads/sites/1/2017/02/Screen-Shot-2017-02-13-at-4.29.14-PM-1487021383-1000x702-1487705673.png https://prod01-cdn07.cdn.firstlook.org/wp-uploads/sites/1/20... and mirrored here https://imgh.us/Screen-Shot-2017-02-13-at-4.29.14-PM-1487021383-1000x702-1487705673.png https://imgh.us/Screen-Shot-2017-02-13-at-4.29.14-PM-1487021...
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- dgut 10y agoSo, a former Gawker Media writer decides to point out the US goverment is using Thiel's data analysis and visualization company and you all (nearly all of you) jump on the hate-train. You people are starting to act like a quasi-religious group, and you've found your devil! Palentir itself doesn't collect data. Palentir is used for a variety of purposes, including medical and scientific research. The article contains several false claims, take "[...] documents provided by Edward Snowden, that Palantir has helped expand and accelerate the NSA’s global spy network". I don't have the time to go through each false claim. From Palentir's website: https://www.palantir.com/diversity/ https://www.palantir.com/diversity/ - Fully paid parental leave at the birth, adoption, or foster placement of a child. - Fully paid medical coverage for spouses and domestic partners, regardless of gender identity or expression. - Equal health coverage for transgender individuals without exclusion for medically necessary care. - Wellness subsidy to support a wide range of health needs. That's actually a pretty good company to work at.
- piva00 10y agoI don't follow what benefits to work at a company has anything to do with the ethics of its actions. Note that I'm not accusing Palantir of doing whatever this article accuses them of but your argument to support the company based on its perks is very moot.
- dgut 10y agoI pointed out these perks in response to some comments in this thread claiming Thiel is anti LGBT, racist and sexist. The company profile is in fact very diverse [1]. [1] https://www.palantir.com/diversity/ https://www.palantir.com/diversity/
- harry8 10y agoPeter Thiel - date rape is belated regret. I call sexist. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/21/peter-thiel-support-donald-trump-date-rape-book https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/21/peter-thi... Apartheid is good - I call racist. http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/11/03/500569299/major-trump-backers-positive-comments-about-apartheid-stir-anger http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/11/03/500... Palantir are freaking evil article hits the front page. "Hey come and work fcr palantir" is top post. Do you work for palantir dgut? You have time for a follow up about how good palantir is to work for but not to substantiate your claim the article contains falsehoods. Pretty poor effort.
- brilliantcode 10y agoMy personal opinion of Thiel aside...sad to see all this talent and potential being wasted on keeping fellow humans down...by using technology & software in the cruelest and darkest contexts...
- Nomentatus 10y agoPeter Thiel is at a disadvantage here, unless of course zip1234 is Peter Thiel. He can't answer here or elsewhere about the apparent contradiction between Palantir's use and his libertarianism. His corporate responsibilities forbid it, since his comments might not be entirely positive about Palantir. I can think of a couple of arguments. One, that he set out to make hammers and thought they'd be used more responsibly but now can't exit without doing more harm than good to others who's loyalty he asked for. Or perhaps he thinks that libertarian regimes are only likely to arise from the collapse of totalitarian governance; or that abuse is inevitable from non-ideal-libertarian governments so it's the only game in town right now. I'd love to know his answer, but as I've said, I don't think he's in a position to disclose it.